POLL YR. IDOLS: The official SONIC YOUTH voting thread!

http://www.brooklynvegan.com/img/music2/sonicbucks.jpg

So, it's been more than a year and a half since I signed up for this baby, and here we are. High time to put more than 30 years of glorious guitar noise in order.

You can vote for up to 30 of your favorite SY songs. Only music released under the name Sonic Youth is eligible for this poll, so no side projects, solo albums or collaborations! (I've got 276 unique songs by them in my Foobar library at the moment, so that should keep you busy enough.)

The system:
Your number 1 gets 40 points, #2 36, #3 33, #4 30, #5 27, #6 25, down to 1 point for your number 30. Please number your entries or at least state clearly the order of your list.

The side polls:
* Your top 5 favorite SY albums
* Your top 3 favorite side projects, solo albums or collaborations
* Your favorite band member
* Their least-ugly album cover

The deadline:
* Thursday, May 9th. (Time zones don't matter: if it's Friday in your little corner of the world, you're too late to vote.)
* Please send your ballots to SonicYouthP✧✧✧@gm✧✧✧.c✧✧

I'll try to roll out the results for the side polls over the weekend of May 11-12, and then do the official countdown on Monday through Friday.

Is everyone smart enough to fill in the blanks of the e-mail address? Damn robots...

Daydream Nation is winning the album cover poll, no contest, right?

I've been considering whether Bad Moon Rising may be the best recently.

(best album, not cover)

So, the Whitey Album is not eligible?

Damn, you got me there. All right, The Whitey Album is eligible.

Yes! 'Into the Groovey', say hello to my #1 position!

(not really though)

oh maaaan i didn't realize this was coming up so soon! alright!

thank you for doing 30 songs instead of 20 or something btw!!!!

Whoa.

I look forward to seeing what people like from the latter years. I've heard most of it but aside from a handful of cuts I never latched onto it like I did with the 80s material.

For Your Consideration, part 1: Genetic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBMJx4H8NZY
Best B-side ever?

It's my favorite song from that era of SY, for sure.

"Ghost Bitch" is one seriously underrated deep cut imo.

VOTED!

I'm going to admit that I never completely understood why "Genetic" was so beloved by fans. It's a nice tune but it doesn't seem like a standout Ranaldo track to me.

I'd take any of his album cuts from that era over "Genetic".

yeah "Genetic" will definitely be on my ballot. i like it way more than "Wish Fulfillment" or "Mote" or w/e.

my favorite obscurity, which isn't even on youtube, is "Blink," recorded for the 1999 film Pola X, which i became obsessed with as an mp3 before it was finally collected on the Destroyed Room comp years later. i even asked Steve Shelley about it on one of the handful of occasions i met him, and he kinda shrugged and said something about how they just improvised it one day and then fedex'd it off to the producers of the movie.

Ballot sent.

ha i could so easily send mine right now but i want to savor a week of having an excuse to listen to a ton of SY

It was easy for me since nothing on my ballto came after 1988.

I only voted for 20 tracks instead of 30—a decision I may regret when the rollout happens—but I didn't want to water my ballot down with things I only kinda like (like "Genetic") just to boost them. Get in on your own merits, good songs!!!

EZ and Johnny, got both your polls.

Cool. I voted for 20 as well.

By the way, EZ: I was listening to your number 1 at the exact moment your mail came in!

Nice!

It's been my favorite Sonic Youth tune for roughly 25 years.

Egad.

I only voted for 20 tracks instead of 30—a decision I may regret when the rollout happens—but I didn't want to water my ballot down with things I only kinda like (like "Genetic") just to boost them. Get in on your own merits, good songs!!!

― Johnny Fever, Wednesday, May 1, 2013 3:53 PM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is why you take a few days to listen to the albums again because OF COURSE sonic youth has more than 20 great songs

Does anyone have any favourites from the SYR series? "Anagrama" is one standout. Maybe "Six for New Time" also?

this is why you take a few days to listen to the albums again because OF COURSE sonic youth has more than 20 great songs

This is surely true, but I vote subjectively and not objectively.

xp: Two of my favorites are
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpSi9b61fPE
and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Abfsef9OPOw

"Anagrama" is def on my ballot

Don't sleep on "The Neutral" from Rather Ripped. Possibly my favorite Kim-sung SY track of all.

i just listened to "Genetic" on Spotify and was alarmed to hear the track start when the drums kick in on the Dirty reissue, because on the 100% single i've always known the song from it opens with a few bars of just guitar before the drums/vocals come in, and i really do not like the change, wtf.

I haven't listened to SYR2 in so long! Should do something about that.

this is a playlist i made a year or two back of favorite songs from the post-1996 era:
http://open.spotify.com/user/alshipley/playlist/02Xjint4osEtM4Q3OQdSD7

Good list! Reminds me that I really have to start listening to Rather Ripped again. I don't think I've listened to that album since it came out.

Excited as hell to vote in this one, and I'm going to take time to give long listens to the ones I'm less familiar with. The side polls are going to be fun too.

Arch, thanks for getting this one rolling on zero notice.

Sure, no problem! I do hope someone will volunteer to do the Cocteaus poll though, because I've been listening to them a lot this week.

(BTW, William, do you still have that Excel file to keep track of the ballots?)

Yeah, I posted it to Google Docs a few months ago -- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmhW_PgsyKKodGZkUi14NV9mYUZ2bUhyV29QU3hBV3c

Just save a copy so that the original is there for future polls.

Some dude, do you have a tracklist for that Spotify playlist?

Does anyone have any favourites from the SYR series? "Anagrama" is one standout. Maybe "Six for New Time" also?

― EveningStar (Sund4r), Wednesday, May 1, 2013 8:04 PM (39 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

"Having Never Written a Note for Percussion" on Goodbye 20th Century.

xp: You can see all titles when you click on 'See more tracks'
xp: Thanks, William!

Yeah, I posted a YouTube link for that one a little earlier. I always felt it was a direct influence on 'NYC Ghosts & Flowers', which is the best song on that album.

Possibly my favorite Kim-sung SY track of all.

Feel there's a North Korean dictator pun waiting to be let out there.

Canadians still can't access Spotify.

xpost lol

Oh, I see. Here's the list:
01 - Wildflower Soul
02 - Reena
03 - What We Know
04 - Incinerate
05 - Jams Runs Free
06 - Radical Adults Lick Godhead Style
07 - French Tickler
08 - Unmade Bed
09 - NYC Ghosts & Flowers
10 - Blink
11 - I Love You Golden Blue
12 - No Way
13 - Hoarfrost
14 - Rain On Tin
15 - New Hampshire
16 - Turquoise Boy
17 - Free City Rhymes
18 - Malibu Gas Station
19 - Karen Koltrane

No "Hits of Sunshine", no credibility.

I don't know "Blink" and there are a couple of tracks, mostly from the last two albums, where the titles blur together for me. (Can't recall these without listening: "French Tickler", "No Way", "Turquoise Boy", "Malibu Gas Station".) The rest of those are great though! "Karen Koltrane" is a big favourite of mine too.

Ha, Silver Sessions is maybe the only SY album not on Spotify. Guess I'll have to dig out the CD.

Damn, you got me there. All right, The Whitey Album is eligible.

okay, god, i was starting to panic there

yeah "Genetic" will definitely be on my ballot. i like it way more than "Wish Fulfillment" or "!!!MOTE!!!" or w/e.

that is assault. THAT IS ASSAULT!

i mean genetic's great and all, but really. for shame.

It was easy for me since nothing on my ballto came after 1988.

that's how i break it down to an extent

Just about everything will come after 1988 on mine!

nobody sleep on "Hoarfrost" or I fuckin cut you.

this is the "full" version of the Spotify playlist as the original 2-disc mix i made for a friend (a few tracks weren't on Spotify): http://narrowcast.blogspot.com/2011/10/jams-run-free-best-of-sonic-youth-1996.html

my Ranaldo stanning must be at a low point these days because there are only 4 Lee tracks i am definitely voting for (and "Hoarfrost" is one of them)

I like plenty of what they've done post-DN. Experimental Jet Set is the only album of theirs I dislike. Still, the 80s albums are their most important work for me, which often makes it hard for me to relate to most non-ILM under-40 Sonic Youth fans I encounter irl.

The 90s are likely to be the most represented decade on my ballot. It's the sonic youth I grew up with.

People should definitely not forget about "Anagrama".

"Hoarfrost" is my favorite Ranaldo track, I think.

i don't think the boosters for the later albums necessarily prefer them to the '80s stuff, they/we just enjoy the whole catalog

The thing to remember with Experimental Jet Set is that the best tracks on it all start with an S.

Yes, that's true on ILM. I enjoy the whole catalogue myself. I've known a lot of people for whom Sonic Youth began in the 90s though.

xpost

The thing to remember with Experimental Jet Set is that the best tracks on it all start with an S.

That can't be true, because I voted for two tracks from that album and neither start with an S.

The best one even has FIVE S's - and two X's!

For "S'Bull in the Heather" the S is silent.

i will likely forget abt "anagrama"

Actually, I had a TA whose favourite SY was Murray Street, probably demonstrating the "every one's a winner" theory.

(That is my favourite of their late-period albums, to be clear. It was just the first time I knew someone who picked a post-2000 album as their favourite SY.)

Rather Ripped is my favorite SY album, and I've been listening to them since between DN and Goo.

Now-unnecessary XP: I have already received at least one ballot with a post-2000 albums as their number 1, and it isn't Murray Street.

:D

I love Jet Set. "Tokyo Eye" and "Bull" are locks for my ballot, maybe also "Sweet Shine" and "In The Mind of The Bourgeois Reader." man, that album ends strong.

Ugh. Hate that album so much.

oh gosh, my vast collection of sonic youth cds (lol cds) is at the other side of the country, i may have to go on a downloading spree to be able to participate in this.

Hm, it's probably irrational since I like the rest of their albums and it can't be THAT different, right? Maybe I'll try listening again over the next week.

xpost

i like it BECAUSE it's so different. still very much Sonic Youth but feels like an aberration, at least production-wise and somewhat songwriting-wise, in their catalog.

NYC Ghosts sticks out in a similar way but that's the one i regard as the worst (and even that has a song i will vote for).

lol today a friend of mine was regaling me with a tale of how "Snare, Girl" apparently recently soundtracked a stabbing scene in that terrible Kevin Bacon show The Following.

to my EJS sounds like an acoustic singer-songwriter type album reconfigured into a fantastic SY one.

I mean, the early 90s is my least favourite period of their work and Jet Set seems like it brings together all the qualities I dislike about that period. I actually find it embarrassing. Mostly sounds like really half-assed 90s alt-rock to me.

xpost to self

Yes, NYC G&F does stick out but it does so in a way that interests me much more. I can't think of much else that sounds like it. Parts actually make me think they were seriously listening to Derek Bailey around that time. The guitar interplay on "Free City Rhymes" is fantastic.

But except for that and the title track there's not much else to like. Lots of Kim in improv mode, ugh.

Those are two of their best latter-day tracks though! "Streamxsonic Subway" and "Nevermind" are both very good tracks imo: great riff and breakdown on the former. And I actually think the music on "Small Flowers Crack Concrete" is amazing. The lyrics less so, admittedly.

I'm not saying that NYC G&F is one of their top 5 albums or anything btw. Just that I like it much more than Experimental Jet Set.

Kim Gordon is only the lead vocalist on "Nevermind", "Side2Side", and "Lightnin'", right? And the latter two are pretty short iirc? Only "Lightnin'" really seems like an improv track.

There's a lot of sonic detail to the album, far more range in dynamics than one usually finds in rock music. The Derek Bailey comparison relates to this: they were exploring subtle guitar and electronic timbres. They really seemed to take time with the compositions, the gradual builds.

It might be the last time that they actually made a serious effort at combining rock with the avant-garde on one of their 'main' albums. I don't know if that's because of the negative critical reaction, at least from some influential quarters.

Had to skip the last two as a bystander, will definitely vote in this. Hope a 10-song ballot is okay.

Trilogy is counted as one track, right?

Interested in the answer to that: I nominated it as a single track for the 80s rock poll and everyone was all "it's three different tracks".

i like it BECAUSE it's so different. still very much Sonic Youth but feels like an aberration, at least production-wise and somewhat songwriting-wise, in their catalog.

NYC Ghosts sticks out in a similar way but that's the one i regard as the worst (and even that has a song i will vote for).

― bish don't kmt (some dude), Wednesday, May 1, 2013 3:30 PM (54 minutes ago)

otm. used to hate, or at least look askance at experimental jet set, but i got into it when their new albums started to slide off my brain like lipid eggs (c 2000). maybe i'll come around on nyc ghosts & murray st, but for now, those two stand in high relief as my least favorite sy lps. "streamxsonic" might get a slot. maybe. way down there, we'll see.

i mean, i could easily & happily pick 30 all-time favorite tracks pre-daydream.

Christgau on Sonic Youth, including those nineties albums. He loved NYC Ghosts.

He's pretty much uncritically loved everything from Sister onwards, though, hasn't he?

I like xgau less every day.

Having delved into post-Children of God Swans over the last couple of years, I've sometimes thought that while Sonic Youth was clearly the superior band in the 80s, Swans may have been the better band since then. (The Seer > the last couple of SY albums, definitely.)

i've never thought of "trilogy" as a single track. that's probably because i first heard the album on vinyl, not cd, and made a non-sequential tape of the stuff i liked (interspersed w savage republic tracks) to listen to in the car.

still, they're all good songs, so maybe lumping them together saves ballot space.

I like xgau less every day.

― Johnny Fever, Wednesday, May 1, 2013 4:36 PM (4 minutes ago)

reading those pj harvey reviews recently left a nasty stain on my appreciation of his "thing"

I've sometimes thought that while Sonic Youth was clearly the superior band in the 80s, Swans may have been the better band since then.

if i liked the swans, i would surely agree. lucky, then...

fortunately SY is three-fourths guys so the reviews are less...fraught

two things that surprised me on Spotify -- the untitled track on Washing Machine is actually listed as "Becuz Coda," never thought it would actually be named on an official-type thing -- and also the big final note of "Becuz Coda" is actually pulled over to the beginning of the next track, "Skip Tracer," on Spotify for some reason.

Please create a special category so I can vote for this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2Yy221HYps

i have no idea what that was but it was awesome

It's a scene from Simple Men by Hal Hartley.

Inspired by Band of Outsiders and not being able to stand the quiet.

I'd completely forgotten "Slaapkamers Met Slagroom"! There are some great moments in there. I regret selling those first two SYR EPs and A Thousand Leaves in a fit of Sonic Youth backlash in 01/02.

yeah, those 3 are ace

Slaapkamers is a fuckin jam, might make my top 30.

wtf people already voted, I don't understand how that is possible. so glad I have a week to think.

My recollection of SYR1/2 is that most of the best jams ended up on A Thousand Leaves - is Slaapkamers one of those?

The score for that Tenney piece is on the very last page here:
http://eamusic.dartmouth.edu/~larry/published_articles/tenney_monograph_soundings/10_Postal_Pieces.pdf

I wonder if SY (or Winant, who orchestrated it) cheated a little!: that score is obviously vague but it does seem to indicate that the performer should only use one pitch throughout. I previewed the Tobias Liebezeit and Zeitkratzer recordings on iTunes, for the sake of comparison.

is Slaapkamers one of those?

I believe that one of the main riffs became "French Tickler"?

"Slaapkamers" became "Ineffable Me," and "Stil" became "Snare, Girl."

NYCG&F has, oddly, turned into one of the few SY albums I still listen to and Free City Rhymes is (for me) their best track post Sister. They never really did anything like it with the weird-ass metrical stuff that's going on, which is probably a shame, demise of drumming being one of the big tragic SY stories. I wouldn't argue that G&F isn't hugely flawed, but think it's a lot more interesting than much of what surrounds it. Also...

http://www.timeoutchicago.com/arts-culture/15974586/%25E2%80%259Ci-gave-sonic-youth-a-0-0-rating-on-pitchfork-%25E2%80%259D

Steve does a lot of cool interesting stuff post-Dirty, just without the punk rock propulsion of his first few albums with the band. Washing Machine's got some of his best work imo.

"Beware the opinions of a kid right out of college."

quelle fucking truth

Here is a 90s Kim song that is basically one of my favorite songs by anybody ever. Don't sleep on this good people:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYVikanyEpA

the way that the corny beat poetry and No Wave and space rock and Funky Drummer all gets rolled into it...man. I fucking love Dirty

(I mean, I know that's not really Funky Drummer, I just threw that in there to signify 'indiscriminate early-90s breakbeat', used to much greater effect btw than most cliched 90s alt-sample stock)

Trilogy is counted as one track, right?
No, three.

@clemenza: I'll add a 'best use of SY in other media' category if you promise to come up with at least 20 songs for your ballot. Sheesh...

'JC' is really great - I love the way the end of every line overlaps with the beginning of the next (is there a technical term for that?) Also, please don't forget the song right before 'JC' - one of the best pop songs they ever wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBivMTOOZFo

Have never been able to get really into Experimental Jetset but there are a couple of songs on it which'll probably make my ballot. NYCG&F is the only SY album I have a strong dislike for.

Looks like my ballot is going to be quite heavy on Dirty tracks - not necessarily my favourite album but there are a lot of really strong songs on there. Really grateful for 30 slots for this one!

"JC" is amazing, might be in my top 5.

Dirty is a pretty imperfect album but it's got a good number of amazing songs -- "Purr," "Theresa's Sound-World," "On The Strip," etc

'On the Strip' is never one of the songs that pops into my mind when I think of the best SY songs, but whenever I hear it it's brilliant. "That was then... this is now..."

BTW, is anyone thinking of voting for a cover? 'Within You Without You'? 'Superstar'? 'My New House'?

First song on my list was "Jams Run Free" - we'll see what happens next. All my SY is packed up for the move.

i might vote for Victoria off 4 tunna brix. a cover of a cover.

Thus far my choices have a strong Kim bias

Also: I'm realizing that I've never really made room in my life for "canonical Sonic Youth": never liked Daydream, only vaguely in tune with Goo/Whitey

favorite SY cover is "That's All I Know (Right Now)" but i don't think i'll vote for any

haha i don't think Whiney is really very canonical

lol i mean Whitey

nor goo for that matter surely

Re: cover, I'll probably vote Hot Wire My Heart and I Wanna Be Your Dog. If there were more room, might add Touch Me I'm Sick.

Goo and Dirty are divisive albums in the fanbase but i think being their top sellers and the entry point for a lot of people makes them pretty canonical

Dirty was my first SY, still love it

Like, I remember buying it and where I bought it

i can remember where i bought every SY album, pretty much.

Dirty was my first SY, still love it

― Raymond Cummings, Thursday, May 2, 2013 7:33 AM (24 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yep, "100%" was the very first SY I ever heard, on lol 120 Minutes. (I may have seen/heard part of "Kool Thing" at some point prior, but "100%" was the first one I ever paid attention to.) A third of my ballot could easily be Dirty Tracks: 100%, Youth Against Fascism, Swimsuit Issue, Sugar Kane, Chapel Hill . . .

i'm sure i've told this story before but i HATED "100%" when i first saw the video and then Thurston and Lee dogpiling at the end of their performance on Letterman (which in retrospect was awesome of course), didn't get curious about the band at all until "Bull In The Heather" a couple years later. still think they kinda screwed up making "100%" the lead single at the moment when their mainstream potential was at its peak.

I had the opposite experience: I was totally blown away by '100%' when I first heard it. I immediately asked a friend to make tapes of Dirty and the older albums - and totally fell in love with the band. Up to that point, I had listened to Iron Maiden and Metallica, and I had no idea you could do this with a guitar.
When the new single 'Bull in the Heather' was announced in grand fashion on Dutch national radio I was disappointed at first because it was so... mellow? I grew to like it over the years, but never with the same enthusiasm as the best songs from 'Dirty'.

i just feel like there are SO many songs from their late 80s/early 90s era which are these amazing unions of guitar noise and pop hooks, and then "100%" feels like this clumsy, half-assed attempt to just throw the noise on top of the hook with none of the brilliance of other songs from that era. it surprised me to learn that the song was a sincere ode to a dead friend since it always sounded like such a pisstake to me.

I really really have to revisit Dirty and Experimental Jet Set, after initially liking them I went off them cuz that wasn't the Sonic Youth I LIKE but that was ooh almost ten years ago and I'm not sure I've listened to them since.

Up to that point, I had listened to Iron Maiden and Metallica, and I had no idea you could do this with a guitar.

I had reference points for most of the things they did - punk rock, jangly guitar pop, Hendrix, prog, the 20th century music section of the Royal Conservatory books - but had never heard someone combine all of those things.

Dirty was the first album I heard by them too. "Shoot" was the track that really sold me on first listen iirc. Admittedly, the album doesn't hold up as one of their best for me now.

imo everyone should revisit every album they haven't heard in a while and vote for at least 1 favorite track from each -- w/ 30 song ballots there's plenty of room to mix it up

punk rock, jangly guitar pop, Hendrix, prog, the 20th century music section of the Royal Conservatory books

Early Who too

I re-listened to The Whitey Album this morning at work. God, so good.

punk rock, jangly guitar pop, Hendrix, prog, the 20th century music section of the Royal Conservatory books

Early Who too

― EveningStar (Sund4r), Thursday, May 2, 2013 9:58 AM (27 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

At a 1990 SY show I distinctly remember thinking, "This is as close as I'll get to seeing the Who circa 1968, and it's pretty fucking close."

Damn I'm moving next week and all my music's packed...
"Schizophrenia" was the first Sonic Youth song I heard and I remember vividly where I was (bedroom in parents' house), who I was with (friend and my brother) and that I was going downstairs to get something just after I put the needle on the record (library copy), hearing the intro, my friend and my brother talking over it, thinking to myself "what an awesome intro!" while goosebumps come up on my arms. So that will probably end up high on my ballot.

That has a good shot at #1 for me.

"Schizophrenia" was my introduction to Sonic Youth as well. Helluva tune.

i think i heard "schizophrenia" and "teenage riot" first, after being told how incredibly radical and challenging SY were going to be. I was like "this is classic rock!"

I got Sister years after DN. "Catholic Block" and "Kotten Krown" were the grabbers.

"100%" is one of Dirty's weakest songs but as a single it was of the moment; it sounded perfect on the same playlist as Sugar's "Helpless" and the other beneficiaries of Nirvana's good will.

What struck me was that it did what the best classic rock did but used a newer musical language (like a neo-classical project??). My best friend at the time and I said "this rocks harder than Pink Floyd" when we first listened to them.

xpost

Alfred OTM. Having helped usher that music into popular acclaim, they knew how to then ride the wave themselves.

"this rocks harder than Pink Floyd"
yeah lol i mean this was basically my frame of reference at age 13-14 (tho i was probably into the velvet underground by then too). obviously there was stuff on sister and daydream nation (past schizo and teenage riot) that was more challenging for me to deal with, but those two tracks I could play for any rock fan, and they'd say, here's a good band.

I never thought Sonic Youth were great at choosing singles. "Wish Fulfilment" might have gone somewhere on 90s radio imo.

2xpost

They totally failed at riding the wave!

Not really! They sold six figures for each Geffen album.

Well, that was a relative failure by the standards of a heavily promoted DGC 'alternative' band in the early 90s. A huge step up for Sonic Youth, though, you're right.

And given their income/lifestyles, as discussed on the other thread, I guess they didn't really fail at all.

TM said something in an interview about how when they signed to DGC, it was the first time they got health insurance.

and Moore and Gordon got to put their kid in a good school. I'd say the band turned out fine.

I always thought both '100%' and 'Youth Against Fascism' were way way lame attempts at fashionable altrock songcraft, so its interesting that it actually does work in that context--the former, at least; imo 'Waist' off Jet Set blows both away

I see that ground had been covered already..

"Youth Against Facism" worked for me live at the time but it's pretty lifeless on record.

or Fascism even.

another on the "schizophrenia might be my #1" bandwagon. wasn't my 1st sonic youth, as i'd picked up evol (awesome!) and bad moon rising (difficult!) by that point, but i had the same goosebump-raising experience that willem describes when i first played it. it was clearly rock, even pop, but i'd never heard anything quite the like, not even on previous sonic youth albums. breathtakingly beautiful, oddly catchy, creepy, sexy and great on drugs. stereo sanctity hit me just as hard, but from a different direction.

also: man, they did a fantastic job w the debut ep remaster. sounds fucking GREAT. i want to vote for all these songs. over time, i've come to love the early, bert-era, avant primitive sonic youth more and more. that wasn't where i came in, evol was my entry point, and for the longest time i figured the band really "started" there. these days, though, i'm drawn to the the spare, gothic sound and fumbling experimentalism of those early records. funky no wave bass on the good and the bad!

it's the song you hate?

EZ, you facist!

Total Facist. Always loved him on the A-Team.

@contenderizer: What's your opinion on Confusion Is Sex? The sound of that album is so different from the debut EP on the one side and Bad Moon Rising on the other. I never figured out why they made that huge change in sound/production quality.

I think someone (some dude?) made the point before that all five of the 80s albums are produced veyr differently from each other. I figured that between Confusion is Sex and Bad Moon Rising, i) their budget might have increased and ii) they wanted to go for a more Throbbing Gristle-influenced aesthetic on the latter album? The debut seemed to show more of a Brit postpunk influence. Stronger no wave feel on CIS.

tbh, i'm not a big confusion fan. it's a weird misstep in their early discography, both uninspired and poorly recorded. i understand that it was remastered for the recent DGC vinyl reissue (?), and maybe that helps, but i haven't heard it.

everything else is great though: debut ep, kill yr idols, bad moon rising & the "flower" 12-inch.

everything else is great though: debut ep, kill yr idols, bad moon rising & the "flower" 12-inch.

Heh, I'm the opposite - lukewarm on those but love CIS.

Halloween & DV69 are my big takeaways from that era tho I think now is a great chance to revisit

See also: I Dreamed I Dream, Ghost Bitch, Brave Men Run, I Love Her All The Time, She's In A Bad Mood, Early American, Flower.

"Youth Against Facism" worked for me live at the time but it's pretty lifeless on record.

― EZ Snappin, Thursday, May 2, 2013 8:25 AM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

or Fascism even.

― EZ Snappin, Thursday, May 2, 2013 8:25 AM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lol there was a promo bumper sticker for that album which also made the same error

My pre-Shelley picks will be Brave Men Run, Brother James, Kill Yr Idols, Halloween, maybe Shaking Hell or DV69

Listening to Sonic Nurse now, which I've only ever listened to completely a couple of times, and now for some time. Albums that start with Kim vocals tend to be pretty good ones, it seems.

See also: I Dreamed I Dream, Ghost Bitch, Brave Men Run, I Love Her All The Time, She's In A Bad Mood, Early American, Flower.

― Flat Of NAGLs (sleeve), Thursday, May 2, 2013 11:08 AM (16 minutes ago)

otm. plus what some dude said: brave men, brother james (!!!), kill yr idols, halloween. and DEATH VALLEY '69! c'mon, that's a goddam classic, one of the best things they ever did. not big on shaking hell, but i'm really feeling society is a hole today, iffy lyrics and all.

"Protect Me You" is another one of my relatively unsung faves from that time.

Flower is really cool imo

XP I was just going to mention 'Protect Me You'. So I'll add 'I'm Insane'.

OK I'm listening to Bad Moon Rising for the first time in ages and it's sounding a lot better than I remembered! 'Brave Men Run' might even make it onto my ballot.

Sund4r otm, 'Protect Me You' is great.

Also: 'The World Looks Red'

XP I was just going to mention 'Protect Me You'. So I'll add 'I'm Insane'.

― ArchCarrier, Thursday, May 2, 2013 11:49 AM (14 seconds ago)

yeah, those too. the latter often gets dismissed, prob on account of poetry, but i dig it. the first little wake-up jolt before DV plows the world under.

I think someone (some dude?) made the point before that all five of the 80s albums are produced veyr differently from each other. I figured that between Confusion is Sex and Bad Moon Rising, i) their budget might have increased and ii) they wanted to go for a more Throbbing Gristle-influenced aesthetic on the latter album? The debut seemed to show more of a Brit postpunk influence. Stronger no wave feel on CIS.

― EveningStar (Sund4r), Thursday, May 2, 2013 1:42 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah! it's one of my favorite things about SY's catalog -- they always sounded like Sonic Youth, and the live sound changed pretty gradually, but they switched up studios and producers enough that practically every album for the first 20 years has a distinctly different sound (exceptions: Daydream Nation and Goo, which is funny since the latter got a lot of 'oh no they're selling out the demos were better' reactions, and A Thousand Leaves and Murray Street, which then kinda set the template for the albums that followed).

i'm pretty confident that if there was some unheard studio outtake from any of the first dozen albums that surfaced, i'd be able to ID when it was recorded within the first few seconds.

Yeah? Prove it!
http://www.sonicyouth.com/archives/mp3-selector/new_mp3/drummerpart1.mp3

"I Love Her All The Time" is one of my favorite A-side closers. And "Ghost Bitch"/"I'm Insane" to start the second is amazing. Probably my favorite 3 song run in their catalog. The bookends to "Ghost Bitch" are their peak, in my opinion.

This is so great:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgxevKwvbaQ

this is the "full" version of the Spotify playlist as the original 2-disc mix i made for a friend (a few tracks weren't on Spotify): http://narrowcast.blogspot.com/2011/10/jams-run-free-best-of-sonic-youth-1996.html

― bish don't kmt (some dude), Wednesday, May 1, 2013 9:36 PM

Ah, sweet; needed a refresher on this era.

Since it hasn't been mentioned yet, "Expressway To Yr Skull" always surprised me with how mellow it is - had heard about it a long long time before hearing it, and the combination of the title, the Dead C's label Xpressway & heavy quotation of "we're gonna kill the California girls" meant I thought it would be this impossibly heavy/skronky thing (see also: Blue Öyster Cult's "(Don't Fear) The Reaper", heh).

Wondering if I can get away with an all-Lee stunt ballot.

it is tragic to think about but I don't think Lee has 30 SY songs in total? someone else will know.

haha i have ANOTHER mix for that: http://narrowcast.blogspot.com/2006/08/sonic-youth-notorious-rockin-lee.html

that was before The Eternal, though, which had 2 more Lee songs. but yeah, only about 20 total.

Flash poll, if you had to choose years 83-89 or 90-13 what would it be?

90-13 without hesitation. Lots more songs I love.

I chose 83-89 about 15 years ago and never looked back.

i get the sense that lots of ILXors discovered them post-Dirty?

i dunno i feel like i'm on the younger end of the ilx sy cru? seems like a lot of '80s lifers around here.

I bought my first SY albums in '98, A Thousand Leaves and Daydream Nation. My first thought on hearing their albums recorded before Steve Shelley: "Boy, they don't move much, do they?"

I'd like a sub-poll of Washing Machine/Thou Leaves/Murray St/Rather Ripped/Sonic Nurse...they all sound the same to me (I haven't really listened to them enough perhaps--i'm pretty much an 80s guy)

Yes. Those are discrete entities. A Thousand Leaves and Sonic Nurse are nothing alike, unless you count the way the latter transforms those ATL jams into four-minute songs (with the occasional jam).

That said, "Green Light" and "Expressway to Yr Skull" and really all of EVOL and Sister are fabulous.

that's interesting, didn't realize Alfred got into SY so late despite being a college radio head from way back to their indie days

Yeah, EVOL and Sister are pretty impeccable. My fave late one as I remember them is Sonic Nurse by a mile.

i have always been a big fan of EVOL but i am surprising myself by having a hard time making room for anything from it on my ballot besides "Shadow of a Doubt." lotta songs i really like but that's the only must-have.

for no good reason I hesitated before buying their albums? I knew all their singles though; I took the band for granted.

No Expressway, some dude?

"Expressway" is obviously great but i'm not feeling very urgent about voting for it, especially since i imagine it'll do really well in the poll (and out of the super canonical '80s songs, i'm rooting for "Schizophrenia" to be king of the hill).

83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89 83-89

A bit dramatic, but totally correct.

god, i got 5 evol tracks on my prelim, and probably won't get it under 3. i can't imagine what would lock "shadow of a doubt", "expressway 2" or "tom violence" loose. "secret girl" & "death friends" might be on shakier ground.

"Death To Our Friends" is great, i could vote for that. "Tom Violence" i'm not wild about, that and "Starpower" are both example of SY tracks where i like the bridge/jam section more than the song itself.

Speaking of "Shadow Of A Doubt", here's a recent Farah cover of it: https://soundcloud.com/caroline-russock/07-farrah-shadow-of-a-doubt - I like the way Italians Do It Better artists' choice of covers collapse the distance that separated contemporaneous Kate Bush & Sonic Youth & Springsteen tracks.

Who else has covered Sonic Youth well? I remember a country-ish "Kotton Krown" from somewhere . . .

Mudhoney's "Halloween" isn't bad.

listening to the mid and late period stuff over the last few days, i find that i've been RONG about most everything. experimental jet set and washing machine are back where they started, in the doghouse. and dirty's on the iffy edge. experimental jet set tries to tear down the big rock buttress they'd been constructing since daydream nation. they're messing with the ruins, hoping to stumble into half-assed brilliance like they did so easily once upon. it doesn't work. it sounds awkward and disconnected, like they've forgotten how to work & play together. they retreat from the self-indulgent experimentation on washing machine, but aside from the title track and "the diamond sea" it's only a slight improvement.

moving forward, i get the sense that between dirty and a thousand leaves kim and the rest of the band (or at least kim & thurston) drifted apart aesthetically. kim's still approaching it like they were making confusion is sex or evol: rough, confrontational, wrenching. she's not a singer in any conventional sense, but her style suits those early albums very well. in the 90s, i can't escape the sense that she's been left out in the cold. over the decade, the guys push towards varying versions of "rock music", but mostly towards the smooth & creamy psychedelic indie rock they eventually settled in the 00s. kim doesn't have much place in that sound, and the guys save their best riffs & jams for themselves. a thousand leaves is the apex of the disconnect. you have these brutally abrasive (but weirdly desultory) kim screeds about sexual politics interspersed among thurston & lee's lovely, languid flower-power doodles.

the album i was most catastropically RONG about, though, is murray street. god, this thing is beautiful, easily the best thing they'd done since sister. i might even like it better than sonic nurse. it's polished, the angst has gone out the winda, but it isn't missed. they're relaxed, connected, actually playing together for the first time in forever. the jammy noisy bits part the skies properly (if gently). kim's pushed to the tail-end margin, but she's also better integrated into the sound. how could i have been so blind?

"Tom Violence" i'm not wild about, that and "Starpower" are both example of SY tracks where i like the bridge/jam section more than the song itself.

― Ship Lion (some dude), Thursday, May 2, 2013 6:15 PM (40 minutes ago)

maybe, yeah, but i like the "tom violence" bridge/jam too much to care.

I don't agree with you about EJS. Those tunelets boast at least two or three sounds -- found or tuned -- plus a lyrical tag. Plus, I recoil from the dismissal of her "screeds about sexual politics" since it's got a whiff of sexism, and we're contre le sexism, n'est-ce pas? You're right that they're forbidding in ways that Moore and Ranaldo's jams aren't. By the time they got to Sonic Nurse's "I Love You Golden Blue" and "Mariah Carey and the Arthur Doyle Handcream" you understand what she was aiming for: killing feminine idols by refracting their qualities through the guitars.

(by the way, Sonic Nurse does the same for those relaxed jams).

"screeds" was probably the wrong word (i had hoped to get by on lazy irony), but i get the sense that she's intentionally going all in on exactly that angle. i'm not dismissing her approach or POV. she's tearing valiantly at the bullshit, but no one else really wants to be there doing that. even the mix defeats her. the railing grind isn't propulsive or immersive. it's just a jagged boulder of unpleasant noise.

i'll reflect on what you say about "mariah carey" as a key to her mille feuille tunes (never thought of it that way), but it seems like a stretch...

was definitely the wrong word, but yeah

fwiw, i love the kim tracks on sonic nurse and murray street. she and the band seem to be working together. her voice has been recorded well and always finds a cool spot in the mix/arrangement. "i love you golden blue" is to "i dreamed i dream" as the better lee and thurston songs are to their more laid back early stuff.

it's like they got distracted by the success of daydream nation and spent the next 16 years half lost, fucking around in someone else's playhouse (often brilliantly), before finally realizing who they were all along. "oh hey, we're this band! this is what we do!"

i don't think Kim really changed her approach that much from the Confusion Is Sex days to even return to it on those later records, to be honest -- i mean her big single from their rawk period, "Kool Thing," is still essentially a half-sung manifesto about sexual politics

I don't agree with you about EJS. Those tunelets boast at least two or three sounds -- found or tuned -- plus a lyrical tag.

it's true that there's usually something there. i dig the really broke down but groovy tracks like "androgynous mind" and "tokyo eye", but relative to other albums, capacity's low. at least that's how i hear it today. i've gone back and forth on EJST&NS many times over the years.

and the most memorable line about sexual politics in "Kool Thing" is about the guy sitting with a kitty.

xp i don't think kim changed her angle much, but the band sure as hell changed around her

voted

breakdown

sonic youth: 1
kill yr idols: 2
bad moon rising: 1
evol: 5
sister: 4
daydream nation: 4
whitey album: 2
goo: 2
dirty: 1
washing machine: 3
a thousand leaves: 2
murray st: 2
sonic nurse: 1

funniest thing about 'kool thing' now is pulling a bizarro ta-nehishi and thinking 'why did it have to be chuck d? why didn't they get ll?'. kudos for memorializing the 'i'm that type of guy' video in song nonetheless.

i just threw most of the Kim vox tracks into a playlist and really love the look of it, looking forward to putting it on this weekend and imagining an alternate universe SY where she's the band's one and only singer

was always true but last few weeks have made abundantly clear: she was always the coolest member

lee's my fave though. i know in two years i'm going to have 'skip tracer' in my head anytime i have to write the date and i'm totally ready for it.

lol yes

I listened to Confusion Is Sex and A Thousand Leaves tonight. I've got a lot of thoughts. I agree with contenderizer about the clear differences between KG's and TM's songs on ATL but I think I have the opposite view of their relative merits. TM's 'pop' melodies are mostly really simplistic and predictable, always tied to the barline, whereas I think KG was doing something much more interesting and challenging and different from what she did before: most obviously on "Contre le Sexisme" and "Heather Angel", she sang pretty dissonant and angular melodies with some comparatively difficult intervals. (When has Thurston ever sang a tritone?) And the way she moves between singing, speaking, and screaming is actually pretty clever. She almost approaches sprechstimme at a couple of points! It reminded me quite a bit of rock in opposition stuff, actually. While I'd never claim that anyone in Sonic Youth is a great singer by any stretch, I honestly think she sounds like the best singer of the three on that album. At least I did tonight (when I was admittedly listening quietly on mediocre headphones at work). I thought that when she was singing pitched material, her pitch was pretty accurate. TM sang much easier melodies and still his pitch was all over the place. When the dudes' songs work, it's mostly because of the guitar interplay imo. Some real Dead moments there!

CIS can still sound pretty uncomfortable, even scary at parts. The guitar timbres and harmonies still sound really daring for a rock album imo. Great album. I wonder what it would sound like if it had really good production. (To take the thought experiment all the way, imagine it with ECM production like a Metheny album! Or at least 80s King Crimson.) I bet there's a lot of rich high-end resonance that was lost because of the recording quality.

TM's 'pop' melodies are mostly really simplistic and predictable, always tied to the barline

And to be clear here, I'm not being a total prog snob about this. I mean his melodies tend to be boring even compared to, say, Matthew Sweet (or Nirvana), let alone Radiohead.

or Pavement for that matter

ATL is more cohesive than ppl give it credit. Wildflower Soul and Karen Koltrane have their oscreechy portions, while the last third of Female Mechanic is impossibly lovely. I remember listening to the end of FMOD once while watching the rain start to fall outside the window. It was quite the moment. The song has been a favorite of mine ever since

I'd totally forgotten about "Female Mechanic" but it sounded great tonight, yeah! "Karen Koltrane" is amazing.

AT L is like the anti-Dirty but I love it almost as much

I had it and SYR1 on LP! Can't believe I got rid of those. Would be great to hear those triple-guitar jams on vinyl.

TM's 'pop' melodies are mostly really simplistic and predictable, always tied to the barline, whereas I think KG was doing something much more interesting and challenging and different from what she did before: most obviously on "Contre le Sexisme" and "Heather Angel", she sang pretty dissonant and angular melodies with some comparatively difficult intervals. [...] While I'd never claim that anyone in Sonic Youth is a great singer by any stretch, I honestly think she sounds like the best singer of the three on that album. At least I did tonight (when I was admittedly listening quietly on mediocre headphones at work). I thought that when she was singing pitched material, her pitch was pretty accurate. TM sang much easier melodies and still his pitch was all over the place.

― EveningStar (Sund4r), Thursday, May 2, 2013 9:12 PM (1 hour ago)

tbh, i like simple melodies. especially post washing machine, thurston’s tunes tend most to please my ear and stick in my mind. while i agree that kim's approach on a thousand leaves is a good deal more adventurous than thurston's sing-song soothing, i don't think it works terribly well. it doesn't deliver the effects it seems to reach for. this isn't necessarily her fault. the guitars aren't working with and intensifying her ideas. "french tickler" should crush, but it just sort of bangs against itself awkwardly. it sounds unhappy, like a song that would rather not be.

i agree that thurston can't really hold a tune, but he usually makes it work, imo. dgaf gets him through most of the rough spots, and the stubbly softness of his tone takes care of the rest. although i can't defend the assertion, i get the impression that the guys were more interested in their lazy hazy psychedelic jamrock thing than following kim into tormented dissonance. she's going sideways, fucking w/ the program, and they just aren't on that wavelength. since then, they've done a much better job of finding a workable middle ground.

i'm not writing off kim's songs. i like both "contre le sexisme" and "female mechanic od". don't count them among my favorites though.

I think "French Tickler" is the worst of her songs on the album, the only one I'd consider a failure.

okay, this is ridiculous, i should really be asleep, but...

thing abt "french tickler" is that it really oughtta work. she's got a good hook in the "free time" bit, and even the more strenuous stretches could work if the band were really bearing down on them.

was thinking about "noise" in relation to sonic youth. they're often described as a noisy band, even a noise band, but when i listen of the band i first got to know - the gothy, psychedelic, post-no-wave punk of their early years - i don't hear much noise. not sustained bouts of harsh, abrasive NOIZE noise, anyway. the nastier the sound gets, the harder they rock, which keeps things in balance. quiet and creepy/sexy/cool or loud and careening off the rails. "death valley 69" and "kill yr idols" for ex.

somewhere around goo, it seems to me that they start incorporating "noise" in a rather self-conscious manner, as decoration, their trademark. the break to relative noise in "pipeline/kill time" is surprising yet organic and entirely enjoyable for its own sake, curdled head music. by the time we get to "scooter & jinx" it's become a joke. they continue to do this throughout the 90s, imo. experimental jet set and washing machine are full of tracks that seem almost deliberately irritating. they're not boiling up immersive pools of tarry psychedelic goo (a couple tracks here and there excepted). they're making "noisy art rock".

that's what i meant when talking about the shift c 2000. they pull away from deliberate noise-making and commit fully soft, swirling psychedelic rock. they don't feel the need to announce their outsider bona fides every few minutes. they relax enough to just jam. a thousand leaves is the transition point, and it's telling that the least successful moment are the most abrasive. you know, imo.

@balls: I got your ballot, thanks!

I don't really have the critical vocabulary to add anything meaningful to what's been written above, but I do agree that Thurston's melodies are often very simple. On the later records they sometimes become too simple, but when they work, they often are the best songs on an album (for example, 'Theresa's Sound-World', which I'm listening to right now).

Also, I have to say that it feels really great to run a poll like this, with all these posts about rediscovering albums you haven't heard in years - I feel like some Sonic Santa spreading the joy of music! :)

i need to defend "French Tickler," that's a dope song

that's what i meant when talking about the shift c 2000. they pull away from deliberate noise-making and commit fully soft, swirling psychedelic rock. they don't feel the need to announce their outsider bona fides every few minutes. they relax enough to just jam. a thousand leaves is the transition point, and it's telling that the least successful moment are the most abrasive. you know, imo.

All of this is otm, I do regard NYCG&F as a mis-step but from Murray Street onwards they sound so relaxed and confident as a band.

I've done a u-turn on Bad Moon Rising now by the way - I still prefer Confusion but it's nearer to the cavernous sound of EVOL (my favourite) than I ever realised.

Love this thread, will chime in more the next couple days

Been thinking about how The Eternal is probably the album most likely not place any tracks in this poll and that bums me out. Would like to campaign for people to vote for "Malibu Gas Station" but maybe there is another song on there that would be more of a censensus favorite?

I remember a country-ish "Kotton Krown" from somewhere . . .

Two Nice Girls, great version.

I was considering vote for "massage the history" from "the eternal"

i always resented sonic youth for becoming a sloppy band around mid 90s. post goo/dirty it's like they developed this weird contrarian stance to their increasing status as corporate rock demigods and decided that sounding like some sort of sub-pavement/gbv untuneful mess was a better career move instead. thing is, they had 15 years as a band by then and the sudden re-embrace of amateurishness felt unnatural and forced. idk, maybe it all comes down to age starting to show and also the fact their increasing amount of side projects meant less time to kick into a solid rehearsing schedule. whatever the reasons may be, hearing records like washing machine, ATL or NYC G&F it amazes me how flaccid and banal they sound in comparison to their previous stuff. SY were an absolutely kickass band esp around 86-92, sadly they never got that tight again.

yeah you're wrong

why?

ha I knew that would get the late-period defenders riled up

The 2000s albums are tight as hell.

On the Murray Street tour, they might have been the tightest rock band I've ever seen!

wouldn't call 'em "flaccid and banal" but i think they did pull back plenty from the super tight approach of the early 90s (at least thousand leaves through sonic nurse). less "exciting", maybe, but more psychedelic/cosmic?

I saw Rush the same summer and I was actually more impressed by SY's tightness. I had very low expectations going into that SY show too: I was pretty burnt out on them at that point. I don't know what O'Rourke did to them but their precision and control over dynamics, and the clarity of the sound quality were excellent. They were much less impressive when I saw them on the previous two tours.

xpost

To say SY sounded "flaccid and banal" instrumentally from 2002-2009 strikes me as a willed determination not to give a fuck about what they did during this period.

Don't tell me this is a sloppy band:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeLdznN4lF0

when checking my sy albums in connection with this thread i realised that i have more or less all of them except the last studio album, "the eternal". but then i thought what about their last release "simon werner a disparu", they do not mention it in the discography, only as a soundtrack. surely that album counts in this poll, doesn't it?

i meant the wikipedia discography

Brave Men Run includes the Intro, right? It's really one song but they break it up as 2.

good question, can we get a ruling? I would vote for counting it as one track. By the way, the Blast First CD cuts off the first few seconds of the intro, ruining the timing.

I all for making Intro/Brave Men Run one song, cause that is how I think of it for sure.

"Rain on Tin" will be placing pretty high on my ballot, and that song, on record and live, is a joy to behold.

Also, this poll could not come at a worse time, but damnit I am gonna find a way to go on a listening spree and make a damn good ballot. It's gonna be rough though.

I posted this about "Intro/Brave Men Run" not that long ago...
'Bad Moon Rising' is the best Sonic Youth album!

One takeaway from attempts at re-listening to the discography is I have been underrating EVOL for quite some time.

Upon relistening, the material on EVOL is surprisingly strong compared to when I just glance at the track list.

realistening to The Eternal. This is way better than I remember it being. I guess at the time I still disappointed with Rather Ripped and never gave The Eternal a fair chance.

re: "sloppiness" -- i don't think it's a TOTALLY unfair accusation but i also think it's kind of coming from the wrong side. which is to say, the precision of Dirty is probably more of a contrivance/illusion than the looser performances on later albums. it still amazes me that they kept Vig for the next album while forcing him to strip away most of his thunder and polish, but i think it works for that set of songs. A Thousand Leaves and NYC G&F in particular have disconcertingly clumsy moments where i think they really hurt the songs with less than stellar performances -- those songs all sounded SO much better live, generally. and that was right after they built their own studio, so it's kinda like jeez really guys, you couldn't do one more take since there was no clock running on studio time?

i have a suspicion that Rather Ripped's far better rep than The Eternal has more to do with how primed people were for an SY album in 2006 than in 2009 for whatever reason than anything else

^^ I agree.

I was all primed to make it three triumphs a row, actually -- four if I count Murray Street, which still sounds to me like an excellent rehearsal for its successors.

hey ArchCarrier, what about "Trilogy" - one song or three?

he's ruled 3 :/

that's a bummer imo, would only consider voting for them/it if i could get a threefer out of the deal

ok that was relatively easy, sent.

Sonic Youth certainly weren't in any way sloppy the last time I saw them at ATP Dec 2009. They RULED. Them playing Antenna from The Eternal that night has made it an all time fave and a must vote for me.

Also - I've not noticed any mention of the magnificent Disconnection Notice from Murray Street. I'm arguing with myself if this should be my Number One pick.

Somebody mentioned voting for covers up above. Superstar will be on my list.

Loving this. Thanks.

as far as covers I would like to give a shoutout to Computer Age

fwiw it seems like cock chirea was talking about 'sloppiness' on albums, which is not really the same thing as sloppiness in live performances

I've not noticed any mention of the magnificent Disconnection Notice from Murray Street

this is my jam

xp Ok. I guess I hear a meandering beauty to some of the latter records. They tend to be quieter in part so the lack of all on full assault could sound that way. I don't know. I love Murray Street onwards. A lot.

Paper Cup Exit; "It's later than it seems"

I all for making Intro/Brave Men Run one song, cause that is how I think of it for sure.

otm, there's no reason to treat the intro as separate track. the way the song crashes in only makes sense after the buildup.

Al and Al, I don't wanna start beef but RR is just a better album than Eternal

there's no reason to worry about it imo. i'm voting for "Brave Men Run" and i don't care if it shows up in the poll results without acknowledgement that the "Intro" is a crucial component of the song, everyone kinda knows it anyway. (xp)

I've not noticed any mention of the magnificent Disconnection Notice from Murray Street.

― kraudive, Friday, May 3, 2013 5:38 PM (58 minutes ago)

as a recent murray street convert, i can only say FUCK YES. instant favorite, thinking it'll probably wind up on my ballot. dunno, though, i need to spend some quality time.

i will put "Malibu" and "No Way" and "What We Know" up against any 3 RR tracks

i love all of Murray Street but all the songs besides "Rain On Tin" are on such equal footing for me that that may be the only one i vote for

as far as covers I would like to give a shoutout to Computer Age

― Flat Of NAGLs (sleeve), Friday, May 3, 2013 5:49 PM (52 minutes ago)

yeah, that and "groovey" are the only covers i'm considering. so badass, one of my favorite tracks from the daydream era. not keen on the too obviously wistful bridge, tho. would be more moving w/out the underlining.

tbh, i doubt either will make the final cut

I have been underrating EVOL for quite some time.

Upon relistening, the material on EVOL is surprisingly strong compared to when I just glance at the track list.

― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Friday, May 3, 2013 3:02 PM (3 hours ago)

yeah, it's an album-album. some of the tracks feel slight or half-formed when isolated, but taken as a whole, it's an incredible ride.

yeah EVOL is a cool grab bag album

"Antenna" is okay, I'll give you that one, and may put it on my list. (Just listened online.) I dunno, man - when I think of the Eternal like from memory? Nothing jumps out, I just am left with a sense of dissatisfaction. I revisited "Malibu" online earlier in the week and it wasn't as gnarly as recalled. Whereas melodies from RR stick with me now and I haven't played the whole thing in ages, lyrics stay with me. There's something wonderfully mellow and dark about that album, even where the tempos pick up - it would've been a good note for them to go out on.

Mostly the sense I have of Eternal is of awkwardness somehow, maybe part and parcel of "let's have everyone sing on a few songs."

EVOL will always be my favorite. it was my first intro to Sonic Youth, and there's something so dreamy and mysterious about it, with lots of pretty moments... it has a unique sort-of vibe. of all the sonic youth releases that one has the most emotional impact on me, with bad moon rising second.

Disconnection Notice is killer

yeah, evol is by far their most emotionally affecting album, imo, and the most sensual too. not sure what i'd place second. i guess it has to be bad moon, as they get a bit ironic/smirky on sister. "mote" is the single song that cuts me deepest.

yes, mote is an awesome track

it's the "vacuum child" but that really gets me, that and the outro

"rain on tin" is a hell of a jam, but "disco notice" & "karen rev" are the standouts atm

yeah "Karenology" is great

sleeve: got your ballot, thanks!

Digging into the last four albums will be my project for these last couple of days, because I know the rest of the discography pretty much by heart. I could really use some insights into The Eternal, because that one hasn't done much for me. The last time I saw them live they played almost all of that album, so the experience wasn't that great. They also weren't much fun that night: hardly any introductions or witty banter.

seeing all the praise of the last three albums and a bit of a relative denigration of murray street is a bit surprising to me, for me the last three had a fine (though diminishing) number of good songs and sonic youth ~moments~ but didn't really have the consistency and singular vibe of murray street and all other peak sy.

so i guess i should revisit them.

I bought Confusion Is Sex around the time it came out because of a Marcus "Real Life" entry. In the midst of Husker Du and the Replacements, didn't like (or get) it at all. Didn't like EVOL either, skipped the next two until later. "Teen Age Riot" was the first thing I unequivocally loved, which I'm sure is not all that unusual.

i didn't get the sense itt that Murray St was being dissed much, and in general i don't think that's the sentiment on ilx: best Sonic Youth album of the '00s

The Eternal really opened up for me seeing them play it live -- in fact that's usually the case (and it probably means something that Rather Ripped, the one i think is a little overrated, is the only one of the later albums i didn't see them tour for).

mm that's interesting. i have a lot more feeling for sonic nurse than i do the two that followed it, and i saw them tour on that twice, while the only time i saw a few rather ripped songs live was on the daydream nation don't look back tour (when also i had lost an earplug so my hearing was fucked) and i missed em entirely on the eternal tour. maybe checking out a bootleg or two would help me pull them together.

yeah Sonic Nurse is amazing, not saying the albums after it are better.

i want to vote for something off every album, and Sonic Nurse is shaping up to be the hardest to make decisions about because there's so many awesome songs but not one clear favorite. maybe will just be boring and go with "Unmade Bed."

Isn't 'Stones' the Nurse classic?

on one day of the week it is

Stones will be on my list.

"Stones" is really good but it never struck me as a particular standout until i saw them tour the album and it sounded great as the 2nd song in the set (after "I Love You Golden Blue," which i think there would also be a good argument for being the Nurse classic). i guess it's notable that "Stones" is the most recent of the celeb picks on the Starbucks compilaiton (selected by Allison Anders!).

this whole tracklist remains a trip just to look at and think about:

"Bull in the Heather" (selected by Catherine Keener) (from Experimental Jet Set, Trash and No Star)
"100%" (selected by Mike D) (from Dirty)
"Sugar Kane" (selected by Beck) (from Dirty)
"Kool Thing" (selected by Radiohead) (from Goo)
"Disappearer" (selected by Portia de Rossi) (from Goo)
"Superstar" (selected by Diablo Cody) (from If I Were A Carpenter)
"Stones" (selected by Allison Anders) (from Sonic Nurse)
"Tuff Gnarl" (selected by Dave Eggers & Mike Watt) (from Sister)
"Teen Age Riot" (selected by Eddie Vedder) (from Daydream Nation)
"Shadow of a Doubt" (selected by Michelle Williams[1]) (from EVOL)
"Rain on Tin" (selected by Flea) (from Murray Street)
"Tom Violence" (selected by Gus Van Sant) (from EVOL)
"Mary-Christ" (selected by David Cross) (from Goo)
"The World Looks Red" (selected by Chloë Sevigny) (from Confusion is Sex)
"Expressway To Yr Skull" (selected by The Flaming Lips) (from EVOL)
"Slow Revolution" (Exclusive New Sonic Youth Recording)

Flea gets maximum cool points 4ever obviously

btw on the issue of Mike Watt lovin' "Tuff Gnarl," it's not quite a 'cover' since most of SY is on it but i may actually prefer the Ball-Hog or Tugboat? version to the original.

"I Love You Golden Blue" was the first song played when you saw'em?!? I envy you.

they opened almost every show with it in '04!

oh I wouldn't know. Only saw'em once: opening for Pearl Jam in '00.

seeing all the praise of the last three albums and a bit of a relative denigration of murray street is a bit surprising to me, for me the last three had a fine (though diminishing) number of good songs and sonic youth ~moments~ but didn't really have the consistency and singular vibe of murray street and all other peak sy.

― ohmigud (Merdeyeux), Saturday, May 4, 2013 3:58 AM (4 hours ago)

i was denigrating murray st a bit, as i still had that nasty ghosts & flowers taste in my mouth when it came out, and i was bugged by some of the lyrics, "radical adults lick godhead style", etc. though i wasn't happy with where they took their punk, art, and noise tendencies in the 90s, i wasn't feeling the settled, comfortable, "hey, we're a just a rock band" version, either. plus i'd seen a couple unremarkable shows circa a thousand leaves, wolf eyes blew them away on the nurse tour in '04. timing just wasn't right.

btw anyone who has never looked at Chris Lawrence's SY concert chronology (which used to be just a fan site in the 90s and then was incorporated into the official band site), lotsa setlists and stats and stuff: http://sonicyouth.com/history/con-set.html

top 20 most played songs in SY touring history are: Schizophrenia, Teenage Riot, Tom Violence, White Kross, Bull In The Heather, Kool Thing, Brother James, Eric's Trip, 100%, Expressway, Mote, Drunken Butterfly, Catholic Block, Shadow of a Doubt, Candle, Silver Rocket, Death Valley '69, Rain On Tin, Cross The Breeze, Burning Spear

Murray Street = unfuckwithable, best of the 00s

Sonic Nurse was kinda blah but had its moments

top 20 most played songs in SY touring history are: Schizophrenia,

Fuckin' saw them five times, never played "Schizophrenia."

top 20 most played songs in SY touring history are: Schizophrenia, Teenage Riot, Tom Violence, White Kross, Bull In The Heather, Kool Thing, Brother James, Eric's Trip, 100%, Expressway, Mote, Drunken Butterfly, Catholic Block, Shadow of a Doubt, Candle, Silver Rocket, Death Valley '69, Rain On Tin, Cross The Breeze, Burning Spear

^ v respectable ballot

Listened to Murray Street last night. I really love that production, which is not something I'd say for most SY albums. Were they using better guitars or did O'Rourke somehow do something in the engineering process? The cheap tinny guitar tone on much of their stuff, esp ATL, is completely gone. My opinion of the songs is practically the reverse of what I thought of ATL. I really like all of TM's songs. I don't know if his tunecraft got better or if it's just something about the music or production that's changed. The first two songs sound closer to regular rock music than anything they'd done previously. (Were they in standard tuning or close? They can't possibly be using F#F#GGAA on those, right?) KG's songs, on the other hand, really seem like a step down from what she did on the previous two albums. She seems to have abandoned all the more challenging things she was trying. "Plastic Sun" feels pretty tossed-off. I think "Sympathy for the Strawberry" would work better with a more traditionally good singer. And, at least on CD, it doesn't quite achieve the heights it seems to be aiming for, musically. The climax of "Radical Adults" is awesome though. And "Rain on Tin" is classic. I'm a little frustrated, ultimately, because, as much as I like the production, I still don't feel like some of those songs work as well as they did live. The first half of "Karen Revisited" is fantastic but when that high-pitched noise cuts in, it just feels abrupt and irritating to me, although it was utterly stunning live. I wonder if the problem is that they tried to contain their dynamic range on the CD? The dynamics in concert were pretty great in a way that doesn't come across at all on the recording, even on "Rain on Tin". (I was going to make a King Crimson comparison but I've never actually seen them live.)

Are there Grateful Dead songs that sound like "Rain on Tin"? I've heard the comparison made before.

Were they in standard tuning or close? They can't possibly be using F#F#GGAA on those, right?

OK, so according to this:

Thurston: CGDGCD
Kim: DADABB
Lee (at least on DN): GGDGGA

agree with a lot of that, but interpret it somewhat differently. the kim songs on ATL are hampered by the fact that the band as a whole are moving in a different direction. MS resolves the discontinuity, but kim isn't well-suited to the trad rock jams they settle on. sucks to be the odd woman out.

The first two songs sound closer to regular rock music than anything they'd done previously.

I guess some of Goo/Dirty, maybe even "Teenage Riot", come pretty close to regular rock music of an entirely different sort. The first two Murray Street songs actually reminded me a bit of Canadian trad/folk-rock band Blue Rodeo when they first came out!

this started as a response to a post yesterday morning, and turned into a long-ass "sonic youth for beginners" exegesis thing. though i can't imagine it'll be much use to anyone, i'm posting section 1 (of 5!) here cuz i don't know else to do w/ it:

Sonic Youth start out producing essentially two sounds: abstract drone (both chiming & smeary) and punk primitive anti-rock. Most of their early songs follow one impulse or the other, with "I Dreamed I Dream" here and "Kill Yr Idols" there. Throughout their career, they'll refine and explore these approaches, find various ways to cross the streams, and eventually push the fusion towards accessible rock and pop song structures. The basic building blocks, however, won't change much over the three decades of the band's active life, nor will the values and politics that animate their work.

In the beginning, there's this half formed art-punk experiment: freaks banging on garbage in basements, making collapsed & spooky sex racket out of repurposed rock, punk and avant garde ideas. The initial presentation is artful and self-aware, but adopts a deliberately primitive, outsider's stance. Though they're nominally a "rock band" circulating within the fertile arts & culture scene incubated by LES Manhattan in the early 80s, they seem to issue not from pop or fine arts culture, but out of the decaying city itself, oozing up through sewer grates at night. They demand youth, fucking, squalor and confusion: (sonic) life as a self-consuming mess.

They hone this urban savant-sauvage approach through 1985's Bad Moon Rising. In constructing their first relatively high profile release largely out of the stray ambient interludes that frame their more aggressive live outbursts, they push rock and "rocking" to the margins of their art (though "Death Valley '69" begs to differ). While the music retains an implicitly punk stance – oppositional, transgressive and deliberately damaged – it rejects the tight, masculine-coded violence of emerging American hardcore in favor of expansive, emotionally expressive sound sculpture. Sonic Youth insist as a matter of principle on the centrality of female/feminist experience and expression, the right and power of woman.

A the same time, they allow themselves to be dreamily stoned and awestruck, even naively poetic, narrating undefined subjective states and stray thoughts – indulgences alien to the fin de siècle anti-rock peers with whom they're sometimes associated: Swans, Pussy Galore, Throbbing Gristle, Einsturzende Neubauten, etc. "It's running down my street with white power sneakers on the beautiful beat of black feet." From within their bombed-out tenement of sound, they channel libbers, beats and hippies, counterculture heroes of decades past.

Awesome! Looking forward to the other parts!

pt 1 was "punk". here's the (considerably longer) pt 2, "rock":

By the time they release Evol, in the spring of 1986, Sonic Youth are fully at home in the unique style they've developed, splashing around in amorphous pools of bruised & bloody tone. Their once polar noise and drone tendencies have fused into a coherent, sustained yowl. It seems clear that they still consider themselves punks and their work art, but their music draws no obvious lines in the sand. While it can hardly be called pop, it no longer depends on confrontational inaccessibility for self definition. Everything they think and do seems unified in the production of this one perfect sound.

The biggest aesthetic shift here is that Sonic Youth reverse gears on what many had interpreted as a conscious rejection of rock music. Perhaps in the wake of Dinosaur's hugely influential debut album, and like many of their SST labelmates, the band recast themselves as purveyors of psychedelic and even acid rock (most obviously on album standouts "Starpower" and "Expressway to Yr. Skull"). Gone are the slight traces of no wave anti-funk occasionally visible on Bad Moon Rising and the debut EP. Gone too is the forbidding bleakness that had allied them with emerging industrial culture. Evol is a dark and inward album, but much less insistent than their previous work on locating itself in post-apocalyptic urban ruin. A candlelit bedroom at night is all the space it needs.

A year later, Sister again changes the game up. Suddenly, they're making their perfected sound do things, pushing it this way and that. They revisit the flayed punk of "Kill Yr Idols", refining it into "White Kross" and "Catholic Block", a pair of careening anthems that will remain highlights of their live set for decades. They locate hooks in their miasmic tangle of intonation, giving it a pulse for "Schizophrenia" and shaving down the spikes for the luminous "Kotton Krown". Throughout, Sonic Youth move ever closer to traditional rock and pop songcraft, writing a clutch of compact, memorable and even upbeat tunes. They aren't just exploring or existing in their gnarly sonic bog anymore. They're intentionally shaping it to various ends.

In contrast to the relatively introspective Evol, the full expanse of the wasted city creeps back in as location and central concern. Now, however, there's a sense of joy in the engagement, the post-industrial environment as much playground as prison. There's something distinctly postmodern about the album's kaleidoscopic approach, urban sprawl, and framing of American punk as a discreet object ("Hotwire my Heart"). Sister's digressions and syntheses announce that punk, pop, noise, rock and art are no longer inseparable facets of a unitary "Sonic Youth sound". They're becoming tools, objects to pick up or put down as necessary. The patchwork of ironic and arty cultural references they choose for an album cover can't help but reinforce this impression.

Having figured out that they can do more or less whatever they want, 1988's Daydream Nation sees Sonic Youth bear down on "rock music" as never before. Most of the drugged and lolling blear gets cleared away, along with the remnants of punk/industrial damage fetish. They commit fully to heavy riffing and rocking the kids, to volume, structure and propulsion. When they do drop into noisy abstraction, it's usually stray detailing ("Eric's Trip") or an attention-grabbing statement ("Total Trash"). Their previously tentative steps toward accessible songwriting flower into full-blown pop tunes that actually generate MTV buzz. Sonic Youth are no longer a lacerating ooze seeping up from the sewer, a future-primitive totem assembled from rusty wire and erotic incantation. They've become large, a shiny beast ready to savage the planet.

At this point, they've almost entirely redefined themselves as a band. They're still chiming, smearing and thrashing, but the assembly of those parts suits very different aims. "Punk" and "art" still cling to their music as halos of indie authenticity, but their approach to these virtues no longer requires opposition to established pop convention. Though Sonic Youth aren't in any sense retro, they share more in common with emerging hard rock revivalism (i.e., grunge) than with the barrier-smashing no wave scene that birthed them. In this light, it's hard not to think of the entire text of late 80s and early 90s American "underground" indie rock project they helped birth and define as a strategic retreat from the radical, rock-rejecting forms of punk, postpunk and industrial music that arose in the late 70s and early 80s.

...
other parts are more sketchy, and i'm going to the city for the evening. will maybe post more later.

These are great, contenderizer

agree with a lot of that, but interpret it somewhat differently. the kim songs on ATL are hampered by the fact that the band as a whole are moving in a different direction. MS resolves the discontinuity, but kim isn't well-suited to the trad rock jams they settle on. sucks to be the odd woman out.

― controversial vegan pregnancy (contenderizer), Saturday, May 4, 2013 2:49 PM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i feel like this narrative ignores a number of Kim vox songs on the last 3 albums that are musically in the warm trad rock mode of the ATL/Murray St. stuff that was usually sung by Thurston: Jams Run Free, Turquoise Boy, Malibu Gas Station, The Neutral, Dude Ranch Nurse, etc.

unless you're acknowledging them but saying they're not good because she wasn't well-suited to them...which i would disagree with, most of those are dope

Sweet Shine might be the first really warm SY track. At least one of them....

no, you're right. i was ignoring them to suit my argument, which, on reflection, was pretty bogus. reena and turquoise boy (to isolate just two rather ripped tracks) are stunning, among my favorite songs of the late era. yeah, she's taking thurston's role and approach on the former - and doing it very well.

xp to some dude

Just to be clear -- which SYR releases are eligible? I assume #5 isnt, but what about 3 and 4?

listening to the debut EP, you can really tell they're coming out of no wave new york. the not-quite-funk of "burning spear", skeletal sound overall, emphasis on percussion, even hand percussion. "she is not alone" edges close to dance music, if of a particularly doleful sort. in their early stages, they seem to owe more to DNA & the contortions than to conventional rock and punk. though confusion is sex ups the aggression and noise considerably, "the world looks red" and "making the nature scene" carry the EP's discombobulated zombie dance vibe forward.

it's fun to imagine the band they might have turned into if they'd decided to follow that thread instead of psychedelic punk and rock. i guess ciccone youth is stage two in that hypothetical evolution, and from there to "kool thing". sadly, "bull in the heather" seems to have been the last gasp. still, i bet you could make a cool mix out of just stuff that fits in with that thread.

The Burning Spear
She Is Not Alone
The World Looks Red
Making the Nature Scene
Master=Dik (bet this gets just one vote, love it)
G-Force
Platoon II
Macbeth
Children of Satan/Third Fig.
Into the Groovey
Kool Thing
My New House
Bull In the Heather
Tokyo Eye

too bad they never had a disco period

i tend to dismiss dirty, which is dumb, cuz i love almost everything on it. "100%" is awesome. "sugar kane" is awesome, but mostly because that bass riff. "youth against fascism" is awesome, and all the more so cuz it's so dorky. only songs i can do without are "swimsuit issue" and the "nic fit" cover. everthing else is killer. maybe it's the sequencing that bugs, i dunno.

since this is becoming the "adam thinks about sonic youth" thread, i'll mention that i drove for about three hours today, and listened to a ~250 song playlist of SY albums. i liked almost every song i heard. they are my favorite band. they became my one true love the day i first heard sister, and that hasn't changed much in the 25 years since, though i've definitely been a fairweather fan. there's no other music i've liked so much for so long. blue oyster cult come close, but i'm more picky there.

Fun fact: Kim Gordon is three months older than Geddy Lee.

So now listening to the Sister/DN/Goo/Dirty stretch, I'm reminded of the thoughts I had back when I was a fanatic. These albums seem rather of a piece to me so I never fully understood why so many fans hold (held?) up the first two as the band's best work while totally scoffing at the latter two. (Maybe it was just some people that I knew?) I can see a major shift from the first three albums to Sister: that's the point where they fully became a melodic hard rock band, albeit a bent one, as opposed to a dark arty Manson-obsessed post-no wave band. But then these next four albums all seem to basically work within that aesthetic, with similar strengths and weaknesses. (Of course, there was another shift in the late 90s when they became an indie jam band.) There's a noticeable improvement in production quality on the DGC albums but it's not like Goo is a Def Leppard album or something. I do think there are some more tossed-off rock tunes on Goo/Dirty but I don't think it's a really radical difference.

Dirty does have some more aggression to it, some almost metal-like elements even. And Vig had them layer extra guitar noise on it, which actually makes it pretty interesting at parts. "Chapel Hill" could almost be a classic AOR hard rock anthem but the chorus doesn't quite get there!

So far, I'm feeling that while much of it is really great, this hard rock period is, on the whole, a bit of a step down from the earlier period, owing to the sometimes apparent weaknesses in singing and songwriting that become more important in this style.

Just to be clear -- which SYR releases are eligible? I assume #5 isnt, but what about 3 and 4?
They are all eligible, except #5.

Dowd, got your ballot - thanks!

Cool. Don't usually bother with polls, but SY are my favourite band, so figured I'd give it a go.

I think one reason to group Sister with Confusion/Bad/Evol is that it's the last album where they same to be progressing in any major and unexpected way. After that, for better or worse, it's refinements. I still remember getting Daydream and wondering what they could possibly do next, and slowly realizing that they hadn't.

Totally unrelated, but I'd completely forgotten about the Sonic Death CD until just last night. Not that it was good, but there was a time when there weren't as many albums of theirs around, so it seemed to be saying more about the band than it does now. They really did crawl out of a lot of possible dead-ends (in terms of building a profitable and long-term career) over their early run.

I had been scared to listen to Washing Machine since I loved it so much in high school and, yeah, it seems a little embarrassing at this point. I don't think I even really noticed the sloppiness at that time but cock chirea is right. They got so much better at guitar interplay later on that this seems so crude: all that tedious wah-wah feedback. I don't know why maj7 chords would have impressed me so much then. Also remarkably adolescent, especially for people in their late 30s/early 40s at the time. I'll be sad if "The Diamond Sea" doesn't hold up.

Jet Set is still satisfyingly unlistenable for me.

Sonic Nurse mostly sounds pretty great though! That "Hand Cream" song and "Peace Attack" are skippable but otherwise, the intricate guitar interplay is mostly just beautiful, especially with O'Rourke's more grooving basslines anchoring things, and the clear, open production. They'd really mastered that style by then. I think the Murray Street/Sonic Nurse phase (maybe even with some of NYC G&F!) is my second-favourite period after their earliest phase.

I'll be sad if "The Diamond Sea" doesn't hold up.

"the diamond sea" holds up and then some. as much as i dislike dirty overall, that track is ufwable.

will probably be top 5 for me

Dirty?

duh, just wolk up. watching machine, obv.

can a mod edit all my posts itt and make them right?

cheap tinny guitar tone on much of their stuff, esp ATL, is completely gone. (re: murray street)

huh. ATL has some of their richest, most warm, wet guitar sounds... Murray Street is polished and mixed (to O'Rourke's standards)... it's tidy and consistent. yes, it's warm, but the roughness that characterised ATL is contained, compressed, ironed out.

I wonder if the problem is that they tried to contain their dynamic range on the CD? The dynamics in concert were pretty great in a way that doesn't come across at all on the recording, even on "Rain on Tin".

this is my problem with the whole record, but "sympathy" works nice w/gordon's vox and o'rourke's bassline. disconnection notice feels like a tired re-tread of self obsessed and sexxee, the way the verses work w/the groove.

mainly just the groove, actually. disregard thurston's verses

One Way Street: got your ballot - thanks!

Hm, maybe I was just being biased against trebly, twangy Fender tones the other day? I think you're probably right that mixing is the main difference (but I do like how O'Rourke mixed MS). Maybe the intonation is a bit off on ATL in parts and that was throwing me? (Could have been intentional.) Or the slight sloppiness that cock chirea commented on?

I forgot how much I really liked "Invito a Cielo". SYR 3 might actually have a shot at my top 5.

Sonic Nurse mostly sounds pretty great though! That "Hand Cream" song and "Peace Attack" are skippable

fucking love the hand cream song! kim in gnarly angst mode works great with thunders guitar. listened to it this morning and it's still running through my head, "hey hey little baby break down...". love that.

also digging "anti-orgasm" off the eternal. baldly lifted sonics riff, noize, funny & baffling lyrics, "anti-war is anti-orgasm!" okay! makes me think of war as the orgasm of collective certainty, but i don't imagine that was the point.

when did kim pick up the ultra-constricted vocal approach she's got on stuff like "french tickler" and "the arthur doyle hand cream"? it sounds like she's trying to explode and to suppress the explosion at the same time, like she's half choking on her own words, having to writhe through contortions just to get them out. it's strange, sometimes effective, sometimes not.

Saw this today in an old zine:
http://i.imgur.com/0JJe3RZ.jpg

listening to Washing Machine now, it's no doubt the weakest of the nineties records imo

the highs are so high though - love Unwind, Diamond Sea, last half of title track, Skip Tracer... Goo got less spots on my ballot, Jet Set got none. and Dirty is great, as noted earlier. Yes, the sequencing is weird, but it has a much clearer, louder and beefier sound than any other 90's record imo. the lows are terrible, granted, but not really any worse than "Kool Thing" or "My Friend Goo" or "Nic Fit".

oops scratch Nic Fit

Nic Fit is better than No Queen Blues and Panty Lies combined.

the highs are so high though - love Unwind, Diamond Sea, last half of title track, Skip Tracer.

otm, though my take on the highs = the whole title track, "the diamond sea" and "little trouble girl" (i know that last one's divisive). "skip tracer" and "unwind" are good, but tier 2 imo.

it still blows my mind that Washing Machine tied to win this poll, idgi: best Sonic Youth album of the '90s

i tend to think of Sonic Death as my favorite pre-Shelley release, although i only have it on tape so i haven't listened to it in ages. the collage of no-fi live recordings approach suits a lot of that material better than the studio recordings on Confusion imo.

i find that blasting confusion through the fucking roof works wonders for the recording quality

not dissing the sound quality of the record so much as the overall energy -- the live "Shaking Hell" on Kill Yr Idols is so incredibly intense compared to the original

I know I had a copy of Sonic Death when I was 18 but don't remember very much about it. I think it was the no-fi quality that kept me from getting into it. Seeing you rep for it makes me want to give it another try. I didn't even remember that it contained versions of CIS songs! I think I mostly just remember static! Xhuxk likes that one, right?

Challops: While disc 1 of Goodbye 20th Century is hit and miss, "Six for New Time" might be among the better things Sonic Youth has done.

members of the band can be heard changing tunings between songs.

I do remember this. Don't remember the songs somehow.

I'll admit that while I know what you mean about the intensity of the live "Shaking Hell" and might have even preferred it at one time, most of the time, I'd rather listen to the comparatively clear studio version.

man sleeve's offhand diss of Nic Fit made me think a bit about my least favorite Dirty track; my first answer was 'Purr'. I was gonna post about it but then decided to hold off. Twenty minutes I listened to the song--maybe for the first time since high school--and man does it SMOKE! I don't know what problem I had with it, perhaps it was too trad?, but I couldn't believe just the high level of virtuosic shredding performed on that track. It's practically a Blue Oyster Cult song! (hi contendo)

yeah, purr rules. wasn't my first "favorite song" off dirty, but it's spent a lot of time in that slot since then. and yeah, the fireworks are dazzling.

listening to Washing Machine, it's remarkable how perfectly it functions as a transition between Jet Set and Thousand Leaves.

Like, in the thread linked to above by some dude, the best SY 90s poll, ppl repeatedly refer to Jet Set as sort of the main outlier in the SY discography, but like Washing Machine is making me think that maybe the first phase of SY's existence exhausted itself with Goo, and Dirty is the true outlier/concept album/OK Computer for skatepunks, and that Jet Set despite the shortness of the songs, is the real origin point of the second jam band phase...

I voted. I basically voted on what sounded best to me on relistening to all these albums instead of going by what I've historically liked, which makes for a couple of odd choices, but I like my ballot.

half-seriously considering voting a straight kim ticket

and going to bed

I think half my ballot is Kim

By the way, I'm just checking that Hidros 3 is eligible. I expect that it probably is, if SYR 8 is acceptable.

what about the fishtank collab with i.s.p. and the ex? is it eligible? not that i would vote for any of that stuff somewhere in between musique concrète, free-jazz and noise.

I've never heard that one. AMG raves about it!

another eligibility question. syr4 only contains interpretations of other composers works like john cage, christian wolff, cornelius cardew etc. that one shouldn't be included in this poll, should it?

why the hell not?

yeah i think any kind of covers are fair game, whether it's those or "I Wanna Be Yr Dog" or whatever.

"Purr" is fantastic, absolutely going on my ballot. another one of those "this is amazing, why the hell was '100%' the single again" songs on Dirty.

Challops: While disc 1 of Goodbye 20th Century is hit and miss, "Six for New Time" might be among the better things Sonic Youth has done.

― EveningStar (Sund4r), Sunday, May 5, 2013 7:19 PM (Yesterday)

wouldn't count it among their best, but it's my favorite thing off SYR4. love "hell's angels in a pink van" tho.

Six For New Time is only track I like off SYR4.

I just sent in my ballot. My no. 30 is Inhuman.

Six For New Time is only track I like off SYR4.
i don't understand the love for that track at all. it's boring tuneless, disharmonic rubbish which takes itself for avantgarde music going nowhere. lots of unmotivated guitar plucking, a little bit of guitar shredding, spoken word rubbish, some computer bleeps, lots of cymbals, what's the point?

the point is that it's awesome.

too repetitive or not repetitive enough? I can never get these things straight...

lots of unmotivated guitar plucking, a little bit of guitar shredding, spoken word rubbish, some computer bleeps, lots of cymbals, what's the point?

one sound fills the sky
one sound, one sound, one sound...

this one

the point is that it's awesome.
LOL

cajunsunday, silverfish and Piotr-without-a-username: got your ballots, thanks!!

Just to keep it nice and tidy: Hidros 3 and In the Fishtank belong in the side projects and collaborations sub-poll.

hmm I may not have sent my three fave side projects? will check when I get home

Rather Ripped is finally clicking for me. It reminds me of the summer after my first year of undergrad, when I couldn't find a job and mostly sat around the house listening to VU, Patti Smith, and Television records. While Thurston has always been a fan of those artists, this seems to show their influence most overtly. That might mean that it's not terribly different from a lot of other garage-ish rock that was coming out around that time. (Maybe it is? I mostly ignored those bands.) However, the guitar hooks never let me down, the interplay works really well even if it might be a little simpler, and the tones are beautiful. The lead guitar parts aren't particularly complex but they're really effective and well-played.

XP: No, indeed you didn't.

(BTW, not many ballots have included that category.)

Just sent my ballot. I've been listening heavily to SY the last couple of days, thanks to this poll. Right now digging The Eternal, yesterday it was Washing Machine and Murray street that struck me with their greatness.

Marty, got your ballot - thanks!
(Oh, and you can disregard the mail I just sent you about your username.)

Hey, so I'm confused. Is "Madonna, Sean & Me" from EVOL the same as "Expressway to Yr Heart" from various compilations?

"Expressway to Yr Skull"

But yes.

Yr Skull, yeah. Is it the same recording? I'm thinking of the Sonic Fields of Sonic Love CD I have. Why the change?

also called "The Crucifixion of Sean Penn"

Nice.

xxp re The Eternal; Poison Arrow is daft and stupid. Lou Reed impressions, yeah. I can't decide if it's awesome or throwaway. Obvs. it can be both... Fun.

Has Evol been remastered btw? That's one album that could use it.

IN THE KINGDOM #19

Love that shit

Are we ranking song picks, btw?

Most definitely! That's how these polls work.

The system:
Your number 1 gets 40 points, #2 36, #3 33, #4 30, #5 27, #6 25, down to 1 point for your number 30. Please number your entries or at least state clearly the order of your list.

Ah ok. I missed that part

Interesting: I used to quite like Hidros 3. I find it (as well as In the Fishtank) pretty difficult now. Perhaps I am becoming more conservative with age.

When did Thurston start doing this thing, that he does all the time on the 2000s albums, where he doubles the vocal melody on guitar (or vice versa?)? Psychic Hearts?

This is a pretty interesting version of "Antenna"!: http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=yRuigAe5dWY&feature=fvwp

I might possibly prefer it.

maybe it's a stretch, but the last couple albums give me a weak malkmus vibe.. where malkmus' albums are livelier w/more hooks and character, sy settled into this rote riff rock. always hoped they would stray into more abstract/ambiguous zones like 'or', 'contre le sexism', or ideas hinted at on NYC ghosts & flowers.

always hoped they would stray into more abstract/ambiguous zones

i did, too, but their ability to make truly engaging and vibrant music the experimental/noise vein faded over time, imo. that might have been a problem if the velvety riff rock (seldom "rote") they settled into in the 00s didn't suit them so nice. i never enjoyed much post-brighten malkmus, though, so maybe we're coming at this from different places.

...vibrant music in the experimental/noise vein...

i will say that, while i love a lot from the last few albums, they probably did get a bit more formulaic there. maybe having all those SYR records and noise side projects kinda sapped away the drive to inject some more adventurous stuff into the proper full band albums to their detriment.

i had that sense for a long time, and maybe that's inclining me to overinsist on praising the later albums now that i've figured out how to hang with them. i dunno. taken together, murray street, sonic nurse and yr better tracks off a thousand leaves and rather ripped = a damn fine way to go out.

i honestly don't know if anyone's recording career has ever had a finer 3rd decade, almost certainly no other rock band. maybe George Jones and a few jazz greats.

I'm pretty sure I know the answer to this, but is ANYONE voting for "My Arena"?

oh man i totally forgot about that one. one of their most hilarious b-sides! dunno if i can vote for it though.

^

i have to say, though, i have regrets about how my CD shopping priorities as a teenager veered so heavily to Sonic Youth import single/side project completism when i could've spent a lot more money on checking out new artists.

I definitely think that SY settled into a formula in the 2000s, yeah. Probably why I never bothered too much with the last couple of albums until now.

starting to love "female mechanic on duty"

^ now

When did Thurston start doing this thing, that he does all the time on the 2000s albums, where he doubles the vocal melody on guitar (or vice versa?)? Psychic Hearts?

he always did that. silver rocket, total trash, catholic block, mary-christ, purr, bourgeois reader, etc. kim also does it a lot, but that's usually the default mode for non singers. coming up with an independent vocal line is way trickier than it seems (and super hard to pull it off live!)

Oh yeah, "Catholic Block"! Yeah, "Purr" is an obvious one too. "Silver Rocket" isn't quite the same, is it? "Total Trash" for sure.

I completely get that it's much easier to sing that way but are there other bands who do it so blatantly and so often?

Sabbath did it a lot didnt they?

Oh yeah!

I am finding that while some of the anti-music in NYC Ghosts and Flowers is kind of offputting, I am not appalled by the album as a whole, like I had been prepared to be. Climax of the title track is quite something, definitely another of Lee's highlights

I mentioned it before, but if you like 'NYCG&F' (the song), you should check out 'Having Never Written a Note for Percussion' from SYR4, which has the same instrumental buildup. Listen to it at very high volume.

Gavin, got your ballot - thanks!

I definitely think that SY settled into a formula in the 2000s, yeah.

― EveningStar (Sund4r), Monday, May 6, 2013 8:34 PM (Yesterday)

measured against their career up through a thousand leaves, that's a fair criticism. nyc gaf is an obvious outlier, but that aside, there aren't many (any?) sharp curves or real signs of progress from murray street through the eternal. they've got a comfortable sound, a bag of familiar tricks, some favorite themes, all the parts are ticking in unison and they just let it ride.

personally, i enjoy the rut they settled into. the sound is warm and inviting, the hooks & noise/drone digressions keep things interesting, and i like the group interplay, especially on the two o'rourke albums. it certainly isn't the peak of the band's career, and i can see why some would be put off by the relative lack of ambition, but i'm okay with laid-back fuzz jams & modest roi. the little bass thing o'rourke does about three minutes into "pattern recognition" is enough to sell me on the song.

<3 "modest roi"

Finally figured out why ppl are going gaga over "Rain on Tin"; that is some magisterial instrumental interplay. Murray Street is def a career highlight.

Con tenderizer OTM

I guess I am not OK with modest roi, I think I had two tracks post-ATL on my ballot. I like the albums just fine, but put any of those tracks up against something like "Ghost Bitch" or ''Cross The Breeze" and there's no contest.

I have been a broken record about "Murray Street" since it came out. Such a good record, and perhaps the closest one to deserving some of the Television comparisons lobbed Thurston and Lee's way in re guitar interplay, though of course O'Rourke gets in on the action as well (the cool dual lead in the big build up is Jim and Thurston, with Lee doing some strange shading stuff around it, though before seeing it live I imagined it was maybe Lee and Jim for some reason). I don't know, it just hit me hard when it came out and has grown in stature since. Got me on this big kick about how most bands were not making records that good 20 years into a career, i.e. that it was pretty much unprecedented, as others in this thread have touched at, but most folks I knew did not give a shit. ILM has pretty much been the only place I have seen that sentiment expressed actually.

pro: grandavis otm

con: i understand the complaints about the songwriting post-2000. the melodies & song structure (especially where the vocals are concerned) are sometimes weak in comparison to the riffs, jamming and instrumental hooks. "rain on tin", "stones" and rather ripped's leadoff track, "reena", are good examples of this. maybe "rats", too. they've all got killer sections and elements, but relatively dull ones too.

the instrumental eruption in the middle of "rain on tin" is unstoppable, maybe my favorite moment in the late sonic youth catalog, but the framing song structure isn't terribly memorable, imo. as a result, the track doesn't catch my attention til almost four minutes in. course from there on out i'm mesmerized, even when it drops back down to a simmer.

similarly, the "keep me coming home again" refrain stalls "reena" whenever it comes around, a shame cuz everything else is fantastic. same goes double for "stones". it's bookended by this incredibly catchy intertwined guitar/bass riff, but the long, watery verses in the middle just seem to mark time. ymmv.

My comment about "cool dual lead" refers directly to "Rain On Tin" for anyone that didn't figure that out btw, sorry for not making that clear originally.

I get what Contenderizer is saying about the cool parts being buffeted by not particularly memorable parts/song structures, but I will follow that up by saying that, at least for me, on Murray Street and Sonic Nurse the songwriting is some of the least embarassing lyric-wise and most natural-sounding structure-wise that they had been in a while. The stuff works as songs for the most part, and quite enjoyable ones. I find the beginning of "Rain On Tin" cool, for instance, and the structure of the song is pretty unique, but I will weigh back in on that after I get through my marathon re-listening sessions over the next 2 days. Going chronologically, and while I spent a lot of time with both of those records it has still been a while.

I agree with contendo about the vocal melody/songwriting beibg way overshadowed by the interplay. This is why I tended to prefer Disco Notce, but in the album context, I think both can strengthen MS while kind of propping each other up a bit, kind of

I'm trying to figure out whether "Incinerate" will make my ballot.

The key there in re lyrics is least-embarassing btw: I do not really want to spend any time defending or discussing SY lyrics, which are just not enough of a barrier or launching pad for my SY love to count for much. Really it is all about the sound (the guitar tunings, the instrumental breaks/jams, some great riffs, cool song structures, all the textural shit, Kim's bass slides and other non-trad bass shit, the guitars) and their particular "band-ness" for me.

Still gotta get to "Incinerate" ... ballot is close to 30 without trying, and I know there are a ton of things I am forgetting.

yeah, i'm up to nearly 50 on my short list, with every era pretty well represented. not looking forward to cutting it down.

I've decided not to vote in this, as having/knowing six Sonic Youth records probably isn't enough to do the poll justice, but I am super-keen to work out which of the my gaps are most gaping.

Tim, please vote! The shortest ballot I've received so far had only 5 songs; I'm sure you can come up with at least 10.

I'm trying to figure out whether "Incinerate" will make my ballot.

― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, May 7, 2013 12:15 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

it's battling out with "Reena" for a spot on my ballot, leaning toward "Reena"

btw, best cover of an SY song: Dos (Watt + Kira), "PCH"

http://youtu.be/8fDEF21S1Ds

Wow, I had never heard that Dos version of PCH. The breakdown is awesome! One of my favorite SY moments for sure, but the way they handle it is really cool. Always dug Dos, but never owned any records or anything, just had stuff played for me by friends etc. Somehow they all dropped the ball on this one though.

I am only now at "Bad Moon Rising" ....

I actually wish I could vote for "Bad Moon Rising" as one song. I really have trouble not listening to it that way minus DV69.

if it's any consolation, i wish now i'd pushed for "trilogy" as a single track

I could have supported that, for sure. Not sure what I will choose off of Daydream, might have to actually do some of that "strategic voting" people talk about in other polls, though usually I just vote for what I actually love the most. Seems kinda ridiculous to even listen to that album again before voting, but I am hopgin to surprise myself.

Wow, "hoping" not hopgin.

hogpin?

Hogpin would have been a better typo

Here's that J-Pop nu-trance-metal cover of Dirty Boots you were always waiting for:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IyGfadnvUM

Holy shit. I mean, whose idea was this, and what else do they cover?

man "Swimsuit Issue" is such an incredibly awesome/awful song, can't make up my mind... except when Kim says "Ashley" and the riff starts chug-chug-chuggin

...in which case it rules!

Yeah, it really rides the line. It is such a cool-sounding song, and that outro manages to hit hard, especially the "Ashley" moment.

Really looking forward to getting to "Dirty" in my journey through the SY catalogue. It's been a while since I listened to the whole thing, and songs like "Purr" just floored me in the past, I wonder if I will hear it with new ears. My go-tos on that record have been the same for a long time, and in particular "Theresa's Sound World" is a special song for me, but hope to be surprised this time through.

^^ TSW rules so hard

Will be placing somewhat high on my ballot, but not sure what that means quite yet.

Definitely one of the most mysterious-sounding songs in their catalogue, and one that just seems to have some real magic in it. There is a story somewhere about how the particular take that made it on the record recognized by Vig right away as "the one", but I can't remember where the fuck I read it. Maybe it is just in my head, but I like the idea that they just had a moment in the studio and it made it onto the record, cause it sounds like it to me.

Kim is so great on Dirty, such a contrast to Thurston and Lee who are pretty tame (lame?) in comparison.

Hah, definitely true for the most part, but I don't really have a problem with any of their approaches vocally on "Dirty". Probably a few too many songs on the record, and some do seem a little flat, but overall it's a pretty fun record for me, especially musically.

Wasn't Dirty the crisis point in the band, at least as far as Lee went? x-post

(I mean, Lee's lameness wasn't his fault(

yes, and for anybody enjoying this thread who hasn't read it, I highly highly recommend Goodbye 20th Century.

Dirty was my SY gateway album, weirdly. "Chapel Hill" is my fave.

Dirty was the crisis point for Lee in the sense that he wrote an incredible song, "Genetic," that was left off in favor of some pretty shoddy Thurston and Kim songs, and he was justifiably pissed.

Thurston had plenty of classics on there though (Sugar Kane, Theresa's, Purr).

interesting that they played "genetic" a fair amount on the dirty tour iirc -- was that a way of pacifying Lee?

prob like "you're right, that is a better song than 'Chapel Hill,' let's play that instead"

actually i always got the sense they just let Lee pick his token 2 songs of the night

Not gonna lie, EJST&NS is a genuinely shitty album. Sounds worse now than it did at the time... yikes bro.

that's just, like, your opinion, man

just noticed that the Master Dik single is on Spotify, haven't heard that goofy-ass 12" in ages. tempted to put "Ringo/He's On Fire/Florida Oil Drums/Westminster Chimes" on my ballot.

no u aren't ;)

RINGO tssstsstssbaptsstssbaptssstsstssbaptsstssbap RINGO tssstsstssbaptsstssbaptssstsstssbaptsstssbap RINGO COULD I HAVE A COUPLE OF WORDS WITH YOU

"Skip Tracer" is another half-great/half-ass song that conflicts me.

HELLO 2015

Whomever said upthread that Washing Machine did not age well = OTM.

yesterday "Youth Against Fascism" sounded great in the car.

fucking love that song

Man, why hadn't I gotten around to "The Burning Spear"/"She Is Not Alone"/etc before; I got onboard w/Daydream Nation and had no idea they could do the supple DNA/Contortions/23 Skidoo no wave punk-funk thing.

"Skip Tracer" is amazing!

gah I'm probably not going to be able to do serious listening before the deadline, I may have to throw something together from memory and then se how much I disagree with my old self.

seeee.

Because I loved Rather Ripped from the moment I heard it I've listened to it last and...it's impressing me just as much, particularly "Turquoise Boy," "Or," and "Pink Steam."

yeah, turquoise boy and pink steam are all-all time.

Man, why hadn't I gotten around to "The Burning Spear"/"She Is Not Alone"/etc before; I got onboard w/Daydream Nation and had no idea they could do the supple DNA/Contortions/23 Skidoo no wave punk-funk thing.

otm. i've been getting a lot of use out of sonic death this past week. recommended to anyone getting into the v early stuff.

I'm amused by just how perplexed I was by the first album when I first heard it after owning the following run through evol. I remember wondering if it was a different Sonic Youth, trying to figure out how the nerdy Kim on the cover could possibly be the same Kim on the back of evol, etc. (That is her, right? I still have trouble reconciling that with most of her other photos). Now it's one of the ones I listen to most, and as someone said upthread, the remaster is really hot shit.
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3595/5743280038_23943222e8_z.jpg

sonic death rules. the version of "early american" with the scream tape clanking towards the end is fucking unreal.

man I need to hear that, I never have!

makes me very sad that there is apparently no love here for "Do you Believe In Rapture", the only 00's song that I find truly memorable.

OK, I'm coming around on some of the Jet Set songs, especially remembering how I enjoyed them at the time. Kind of a cool mix of heavy garage rock with noise on a lot of the better tracks. "Self-Obsessed and Sexxee" is pretty great dumb riff-rock. I think it was the "party, party, party, party all the time" part that turned me off for a long time but I can overlook the lyrics there, I guess. The jarring dynamic contrasts in "Tokyo Eye" are nice too. I like that Thurston did a little more with his voice on this album. I still don't need about half of it though.

i revisited "Rapture" the other day, i appreciate that it's unique to the songs around it but i've never been wild about it.

"Tokyo Eye" is so sick, prob in my top 10

Not gonna lie, EJST&NS is a genuinely shitty album. Sounds worse now than it did at the time... yikes bro.

Your honesty is a breath of fresh air. Any other gems of insight you're withholding from us?

OK, I'm coming around on some of the Jet Set songs... "Self-Obsessed and Sexxee" is pretty great dumb riff-rock. ...The jarring dynamic contrasts in "Tokyo Eye" are nice too. ...I still don't need about half of it though.

― EveningStar (Sund4r), Tuesday, May 7, 2013 6:08 PM (6 minutes ago)

those are the two standouts, imo, but yeah, there's other decent stuff. it's certainly not a total loss. still, i think the only sy album i'd put it before is nyc ghosts.

some dude otm re: "tokyo eye"

EJSTNS finalists:

Androgynous Mind
Winner's Blues
Skink
Sweet Shine

for me it's Bull, Tokyo Eye, Sweet Shine, Bone and In The Mind

Bone is a great example of the kind of weird little unique one-off songs they toss out constantly and never repeat, love it

considering a trilogy protest vote, it came as one track on the old cd, it's in the name even: one thing w/ parts

is this poll for ontological anarchy or ontological fascism, is what i want to know

where's george gossett when you finally need him

I voted! Kind of a half-assed ballot but better than no ass.

what you guys think of "tuck n dar"? i was THIS close to vote for it

http://youtu.be/dyxpG-Rehc8

j. OTM re "Trilogy"

yeah me otm

voted for "the wonder" and "hyperstation" as separate tracks. i always consider them songs that stand on their own with diff moods and diff motifs, who cares about the 'trilogy' nomenclature anyways

the band, who nomenclated it

cut it down to 35, but i don't know where to go next. late albums suffering catastrophically.

i'm probably gonna be voting for all three parts of "trilogy", and they DO work better in unison.

j. OTM

well, or sequentially anyway

the wonder + hyperstation, sure. eliminator jr, not really.

it's a palette cleanser

i don't really like it. if i was forced to vote for the entire trilogy i'd prob skip it in favor of another DN song.

boo. a poor rich boy coming right through me.

Eliminator Jr. is the ONLY part of Trilogy i'm thinking about voting.

Up to 27 songs

Man, SYR9 was so dope - forgot how much I dug that.
For me I prefer to think of THAT as their swan song

My list is crazy heavy on Washing Machine and Dirty

For Experimental I'm going with "Quest." That was always a fave. May add "bone"

Ballot sent!

after an evening's worth of wrestling, i've succeeded only in adding four songs to my ballot :(

Alfred otfm re Jet Set, tho I might add Bull in the Heather. Sweet Shine is a,lock for top 10. Skink is,another v likely candidate. Bone is cool but Starfield Road goes in before that one

Three more ballots received during the night: thank you Tristan B, Seandalai and Austin!

Re: 'Trilogy', I read somewhere that they were always different songs, but because they were in the same key (or used the same tuning?) they were put together like this.

"Skip Tracer" is amazing!

Agreed! Its probably the song thats stood out most for me in my sonic youth rediscovery. Its not my number 1, but it probably shouldve been.

Just chanced across this jazz album of SY covers, it's pretty good!

http://www.discogs.com/Rusconi-Its-A-Sonic-Life/release/2207199
http://open.spotify.com/album/4c3vIOWEqE1U6bX4XalKKE

Alfred otfm re Jet Set, tho I might add Bull in the Heather. Sweet Shine is a,lock for top 10. Skink is,another v likely candidate. Bone is cool but Starfield Road goes in before that one

― Drugs A. Money, Tuesday, May 7, 2013 9:53 PM (Yesterday)

weird. i like a bunch of EJS tracks, but "bull in the heather" is the only one of these i'd even consider. and i cut it very early on.

i'm finally attempted to whittle down my top 30, and man is this difficult! partly because i'm trying to grab something from each album, and have a few non-album picks, so i end up only being only to fit more than one (and a max of 3) songs from a few records, each of which are at least 50% incredible classic shit.

so i end up only being only to fit more than one (and a max of 3) songs from a few records.

― seanpennderizer (some dude), Wednesday, May 8, 2013 5:04 AM (7 minutes ago)

yeah, this is my problem. i can't get below 4, 5 or even 6 tracks from certain albums.

I read somewhere that they were always different songs, but because they were in the same key (or used the same tuning?) they were put together like this.

But they were still put together!

I tried to vote for one song off of every album, but ultimately ran out of space on my ballot. Also, in the process of trying to be fair to each album I somehow screwed up and ended up not voting for anything from Evol. I noticed this before submitting my ballot, but it was late and didn't want to find another song to cut so I just submitted it. Other people will vote for my favorite songs from Evol.

I wanna reiterate that SYR9 is pretty great, there are some gorgeous moments on that record and represent how this band was still doing cool shit right up to (possibly) the end. Not sure when I am gonna find the time to listen to the SYR releases again though, but that is one I am going to try to find the time for. "Anagrama" is maybe the only non-song entry I am thinking of including, though I have a real soft spot for "The Silver Sessions". If I could include that as one song I might.

I have until the end of Thursday, right?

Also, for anyone else who was failing to find "The Whitey Album" on Spotify, as soon as I searched for Ciccone Youth it showed up. Previously I had been an idiot and was just looking at Sonic Youth albums.

But they were still put together!
Not on my CD though.

I will reiterate: the breakdown and Lee Ranaldo's solo in "Pacific Coast Highway" are very close to my favorite thing that Sonic Youth ever did.

Not on my CD though.

It's still listed as "Trilogy" with three sections "a", "b", and "c", right? Individual movements of classical works always get their own tracks on CDs but they're clearly still part of a larger work.

I listened to SYR 9 for the first time last night. I dunno, there seemed to be a number of passages where they just strum through a chord progression over a mid-tempo backbeat. I kept thinking how much more e.g. Nels Cline could have done with that material. I remember feeling this way about a lot of post-rock, actually. ("Anagrama" isn't really holding up that great for me either, sadly.) Maybe I need to listen to it some more.

Nothing on SYR9 will make my ballot, but bits like "Les Anges au piano" and “Theme de Simon” are quite lovely in their own right. I especially like the use of piano throughout. I mean, it was meant as soundtrack music, and cannot escape that “feel”, but the sparseness of a lot of it gives their playing in a different focus, which I really like.

Wanna say that "Theme d'Alice" is also nice, somewhat a distillation of the whole SYR9 record (and the only one that stretches beyond the 10 minute mark).

three sections "a", "b", and "c", right?
'z', even.

Trilogy was all one track on CD until the 2007 reissue

I listened to SYR 9 for the first time last night. I dunno, there seemed to be a number of passages where they just strum through a chord progression over a mid-tempo backbeat. I kept thinking how much more e.g. Nels Cline could have done with that material. I remember feeling this way about a lot of post-rock, actually. ("Anagrama" isn't really holding up that great for me either, sadly.) Maybe I need to listen to it some more.

― EveningStar (Sund4r), Wednesday, May 8, 2013 12:36 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

when i listen to a film score without having seen the film, i just kind of assume that any simplicity or repetitiveness or whatever is ultimately to serve its function as a score and not as an album

although Made In U.S.A. is pretty entertaining just to hear so many near identical iterations of the same goofy riffs

i wish SY had released some of their SubUrbia score besides just the 3 tracks on the soundtrack album, love the sound of that stuff (and that version of "Sunday" is still my favorite).

Eh, guess it is silly to talk about albums that are not going to factor in this thing at all. What is relevant is just how awesome "'Cross the Breeze" is! So hard to figure where some of this shit is gonna place on my own ballot, let alone the final rollout, but this song just rules.

haven't listened to this in at least 10 years, good Jet Set-style Kim song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScOEAv9_8G8

i may have to make a playlist of every song where Steve plays the maracas, i love that shit

can i still vote? i am still trying to put the songs in order and (unfortunately) i have a 2nd life besides ilm. the deadline was pretty short.

you can vote until the end of Thursday, so you've still got time.

thanks, that should suffice.

Don't think I am going to be able to fit it on my ballot, but want to also state that for the record "Kissability" is great, but in particular the riff and guitar solo in the break (and when the riff returns to close out the song). Damn I love that riff/solo.

Ok tbf, I wasn't thinking about SYR9 as a film score.

"Kissability" is incredible, a lock for my top 10. feel like it's FAST but also very controlled in a way that not many Sonic Youth songs are.

Man, I bet "Trilogy" would place pretty high on this thing if it was allowed.

Fast and controlled and then that riff and solo come in and IT RULES.

i really can't conceive of any understanding of Daydream Nation that would hold Trilogy or any of its contents as more than like the 6th best song on the album

yeah the solo on "Kissability" is insane

Well, let's imagine how many songs on that album are gonna place. I am thinking that most people would rate "Kissability" as a more throwaway track than the trilogy tracks, but maybe I'm underestimating the love for Kissability?

yeah i'm not saying "Kissability" per se, that's just a personal fav, but i could see all or most of the first 5 tracks and "Candle" doing better

heres my ballot for this poll:

\jams
\zones
\shreds
\rocks
\ciccone youth covers

shreds run free

Ok sent my albums ballot, was surprisingly easy to come up with

Would definitely help my ballot to limit it to jams/zones/shreds/rocks, may consider that when it comes time to weed some shit out for sure.

Thanks Raymond! You're still working on your songs ballot, I presume?

was thinking while listening to daydream nation and feeling how much more i liked the last half - has ilm ever polled the original 2-LP album sides (A-B-C-D) of daydream nation?

yeah i'm not saying "Kissability" per se, that's just a personal fav, but i could see all or most of the first 5 tracks and "Candle" doing better

don't have much use for either "teen age riot" or "the sprawl". "silver rocket" is awesome, but my favorite shit = "'cross the breeze" "eric's trip", "rain king" and "trilogy". so j. OTM again.

The outro to "The Sprawl" is ___thee___ best SY dreamy prolonged outro... it's the one I always think of when someone references the extended instrumental repetitive passages on Daydream Nation at least.

i was talking about what songs will do well in the poll. so i mean how you feel about "Teenage Riot" has nothing to do with whether it will place, of course it will. xp

The outro to "The Sprawl" is ___thee___ best SY dreamy prolonged outro... it's the one I always think of when someone references the extended instrumental repetitive passages on Daydream Nation at least.

― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Wednesday, May 8, 2013 12:39 PM (3 minutes ago)

The "outro" haha, I mean the last 5 minutes, there's quite a bit happening through all that.

i was talking about what songs will do well in the poll. so i mean how you feel about "Teenage Riot" has nothing to do with whether it will place, of course it will. xp

oh sure. i meant to quote your "i really can't conceive of any understanding of Daydream Nation that would hold Trilogy or any of its contents as more than like the 6th best song on the album" line. that's what i was responding to. my understanding of the album is that trilogy is awesome fuiud.

The outro to "The Sprawl" is ___thee___ best SY dreamy prolonged outro... it's the one I always think of when someone references the extended instrumental repetitive passages on Daydream Nation at least.

― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Wednesday, May 8, 2013 12:39 PM (10 minutes ago)

the best on DN, yeah, but there's competition elsewhere ("expressway", "washing machine", "diamond sea", "karen revisited")

important thread: IT'S THE SONIC YOUTH EPICS POLL

did i already say that i really HATE to put my ballot in an order? the order i choose is almot completely rndom. sonic youth re one of the few bands who has released 30 great songs. they merit to be treated all equal. i really dislike the idea of creating a hierarchy of songs. especially of sonic youth songs. because in a way it seems undemocratic. sorry for the moaning but i have to. could we have ordererd and unordered ballots next time? as we always have in the year polls.

my keyboard has black holes, it is from china. just fill in the missing letters...

Yup, songs ballot coming tonight

Tough part will be ranking shit

If I could have snuck one more album on it would've been BMR

The old DN CD sounds pretty great at high volumes, eh? Was just blasting it in the car and marvelling (again) at "'Cross the Breeze". I thought I was going to give the #1 spot to BMR but I'm reconsidering now.

Feeling more and more frustrated with the compression/distortion on the deluxe edition.

?? really? It's that obvious? I have the vinyl but haven't really given it a close listen.

The snare drum, especially. I really liked it when I first got it but burned out quickly.

I think I'd like to hear the LP. Maybe I should see if the nearby vinyl shop has it.

Btw, I thought "Trilogy" was pretty widely considered a highlight of the album. SD's comment surprises me.

i sent in a ballot that systematically attempted to rank some dudes least favorite sonic youth songs from 1 - 99 its p sweet

there's not much i hate! even the stuff i have a checkered past with like "100%" i sometimes enjoy. if my ballot had 40 spots i might vote for all of "Trilogy."

but it's good to know lamp still feels compelled, years later, to pop into threads just to halfheartedly troll me

Alright! Just voted.

Not sure if it's already been mentioned, but their cover of Neil Young's Computer Age is absolutely fantastic and is worthy of your vote.

yes! along with about 50 other songs!

And a side project that has been long forgotten, but worthy of your attention: Dim Stars. Thurston Moore and Steve Shelley, with Richard Hell on vocals. The leadoff track, She Wants To Die is exceptional.

Just take the extra period out of the link below to hear it.

http://www.you.tube.com/watch?v=_4A3T-R0fFI

Ok tracks list is in

Already there's like 5-6 songs I wish I could have included

was thinking of waiting til the last minute and leaving it til tomorrow morning, but i decided to go ahead and send my ballot in now!

For the album cover poll, how large of a ballot do we submit? Also, most of the SYRs have almost the same cover, don't they?

no

Their least-ugly album cover = 1

kornrules mentioned dim stars, which yeah, but this is my favorite track from that project:

WATCH SLOWLY AND SEE

would vote for it in a second if'n i could

Just voted from a Yahoo address.

Thanks for doing this, ArchCarrier!

The outro to "The Sprawl" is ___thee___ best SY dreamy prolonged outro... it's the one I always think of when someone references the extended instrumental repetitive passages on Daydream Nation at least.

man, the guitar interplay on daydream nation is probably thurston and lee at their creative peak. if you isolate the gtr parts you can tell the guys worked their asses off to come up with a bunch of diverging figures and progressions that clash wonderfully against each other. they rarely play in unison through the album, constantly trading leads and cool little accents and stuff. lee in particular does a great job coloring thurston's riffs with an impressive array of unexpected fills. "cross the breeze" and "the sprawl" are amazing examples of this approach and maybe my faves on the album just because of that. or the ripping mid section from "the wonder" which is great.

Can't forget "Candle" (my #2).

I'm already starting to have regrets. "Shadow of a Doubt"! How could I have forgotten you??

oh god "Shadow" is absolutely essential

:(

I voted for five other Evol songs too! "Shadow" might deserve it more than "Expressway".

xpressway and shadow are in my top 10!

this is my fave SY boot or semi-boot

http://open.spotify.com/album/2dWUZCFAk7WYO6yqBCO5fg

you wouldn't find better renditions of EVOL material anywhere else

Did anyone hear that 1985 Smart Bar thing that was released a little while ago? How was it?

(I'll look for that recording on non-Spotify sources.)

Smart Bar is flat out amazing.

Ballot sent. I could have shuffled my top 10 around in a hundred permutations, but I knocked them into rough order and hit Send.

"The Gossip Girl episode "Rufus Getting Married" features a live version of this song (Kim on vocals). Kim also acts in a small speaking role. Before the performance, Lee and Thurston are shown (de-)tuning their guitars."

!!

Anyway, better work on my ballot before GMT+12 disqualifies me.

Smart Bar is flat out amazing.

The clips on iTunes sound really good. I'm usually not the biggest fan of live recordings of non-improvised music tbh but this might be worth it.

Received 11 more ballots during the night:

• Albert Broccoli (best subject line so far: 'Melissa Ethridge's Greatest b-sides Poll Ballot')
• kraudive
• lamp
• Nag! Nag! Nag!
• kornrulez6969
• Raymond Cummings
• some dude
• Sund4r
• WilliamC
• gman59
• Drugs A. Money