West Coast vs. West Coast

not even close

Sorry, the San Francisco list got cut off: Jefferson Airplane, Grateful Dead, Charlatans, Beau Brummels, Quicksilver Messenger Service, Country Joe & the Fish, Moby Grape, Sly & the Family Stone, Steve Miller Band, Big Brother & the Holding Company, etc.

I took the lists from these Rhino box sets:

L.A.: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Where_the_Action_Is!_Los_Angeles_Nuggets_1965%E2%80%931968
San Francisco: http://www.amazon.com/Love-Song-Sing-Francisco-1965-1970/dp/B000PHX0VE

It's not that clear-cut for me.

From those two lists, LA easily. Though if the Doors and Sly & the Family Stone could swap houses, that would be even better.

^ this

I think it'd be about dead even for me. The Byrds and the Airplane are in my personal pantheon, so that'd be close to a wash. (In and of itself, that alone would tip the scales well towards L.A. for most people.) When I work down from there--Buffalo Springfield vs. Sly, Beach Boys vs. Charlatans--they're all almost even.

Are the Byrds that much more popular than the Airplane? Those two are probably even for me too. (Being an asshole, though, I might actually like Red Octopus even more than the Airplane albums i know.)

i voted San Francisco because of Sly and the Family Stone. I'm not an expert on 60s San Fran psychedelia but I like Jefferson Airplane well enough and I get the sense that that city was an exciting place to be at that time in a way that LA just wasn't.

never heard of Beau Brummels. worth checking out?

the LA draft features two of my favourite artists of all time, so that's obviously how i'm gonna vote

(xxxpost) I think the Byrds are pretty revered, at least in the context of something like ILM; the Airplane, I think, are somewhat relegated to the wings.

On the classic-rock and oldies radio, both are now pretty much confined to a couple of songs: "Somebody to Love"/"White Rabbit" and "Mr. Tambourine Man"/"Turn! Turn! Turn!" (with "Eight Miles High" getting some FM airplay).

Beau Brummels had some great songs: love "Don't Talk to Strangers," "When It Comes to Your Love," and "Sad Little Girl."

LA by a vast margin. The Magic Band! The Mothers! West Coast Pop Art Experimental Band. Van Dyke Parks, Nilsson, Electric Prunes, etc. So many more great bands in LA at that time.

never heard of Beau Brummels. worth checking out?

Bradley's Barn is a good country rock album. the earlier stuff is OK.

I get the sense that that city was an exciting place to be at that time in a way that LA just wasn't.

not true at all. although you're really talking two different time periods. LA was the place to be until they shut down the strip and then the action moved up north. Still LA was better for a lot longer. SF scene was good for what, a year?

if the Doors and Sly & the Family Stone could swap houses, that would be even better.

Sly arguably did his best stuff after moving to LA

Beach Boys vs. Charlatans--they're all almost even.

lol, come on

For me, yes. I OD'd on Endless Summer as a teenager, and I'm not as enamored of Pet Sounds and beyond as everyone else; the Charlatans have four songs--"Alabama Bound," "Walkin'," "Time to Get Straight," and "Number One" that are all-time favourites, and I can't say that of the Beach Boys anymore. Obviously, I realize I'm alone on this.

Codine is great too. But yeah, you have to admit that's pretty batshit.

For me it comes down to:

Byrds, Love, Beach Boys, Doors, Mothers, Beefheart, Buffalo Springfield, Seeds, Kaleidoscope, Turtles, Mamas & Papas, Monkees, West Coast Pop Art Experimental Band, Van Dyke Parks, Electric Prunes, United States of America

vs

Blue Cheer, Dead, Airplane, Sly, Charlatans, Beau Brummels, Country Joe & the Fish

it kills me to vote SF but most of the 60s LA stuff people revere is stuff I just don't care about at all whereas SF has the Dead and Moby Grape and Sly & the Family Stone and Santana, who were killer back then. Beefheart & Zappa yes indeed but I'll take the Dead & Sly over them and that's what this comes down to for me

I don't think the Mothers are on that Rhino box, so I missed them on the summary list. The best songs on Freak Out! are probably enough to move my vote over to L.A.

Mays vs. Koufax would be nearly as tough for me.

la : for the seeds alone ..

Confluence of Beefheart, Neil Young, & Arthur Lee is enough to cinch it for LA for me, but the existence of Sly and CCR makes it v close, not to mention how much better the Dead and the Airplane were than the Byrds

ps Moby Grape blows

Aargh--CCR! S.F. just opened up a clear lead for me.

Love the first Moby Grape LP, also a few songs from '69:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fnr_JvIc4So

Let's Get Together vs. For What It's Worth

i voted San Francisco because of Sly and the Family Stone. I'm not an expert on 60s San Fran psychedelia but I like Jefferson Airplane well enough and I get the sense that that city was an exciting place to be at that time in a way that LA just wasn't.

― the strange and important sound of the synthesizer (Treeship), Saturday, June 1, 2013 3:12 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Didn't George Harrison once describe San Francisco in the '60s as being "full of spotty dropout kids on drugs"? I remember reading or at least hearing that he wasn't incredibly impressed when he went there to visit and that he was kinda expecting some kinda 'happening' place and was sorely disappointed.

Anyways, this is LA for me... by miles!

LA was probably incredibly exciting to be in at the time, and that's not even counting the fact that a bunch of creepy friends of a lot of those musicians were going around murdering people

I wonder what the SF scene would have been like if John Phillips hadn't organized Monterey Pop and written San Francisco (Be Sure to Wear Flowers in Your Hair). The SF music scene was basically invented by LA!

Also are we talking where musicians were born (can't count people like Neil Young for LA then), what the club scene was like (who cares unless you have a time machine), or which place made more great records? If it's the latter we get to count the first four Jefferson Airplane albums and the first couple Grateful Dead albums as LA albums.

The Mamas and Papas basically make it no contest for me. on the other hand, I'll bet it would have been tons more fun to actually be in SF during the 60s!

no reason to go to sf until '67 or so though. would have been pretty damn great to be a teenager in LA in the early to mid '60s and do stuff like go to the TAMI show or see Beefheart and the Magic Band win the battle of the bands at the Teenage Fair!

I guess it would be worth going up to SF around the time of the Trips festival in 66

Not mentioned yet for L.A. - Standells and Music Machine.

I wonder what the SF scene would have been like if John Phillips hadn't organized Monterey Pop and written San Francisco (Be Sure to Wear Flowers in Your Hair). The SF music scene was basically invented by LA!

lol, no.

voted for Sly Stone

Oh yeah, if were counting CCR, then the Bay Area easily. Otherwise, LA easily.

lol, no.

thousands of teenagers didn't flock to SF because of bill graham.

I hate the SF psych stuff but the two shining paragons of the scene - Sly and CCR - tower so far above anybody else (except the Beach Boys), I'm inclined to vote SF here. but it's close.

kills me to vote against sly for any reason but i hate pretty much every band on the SF list. the airplane in particular are easily one of the worst bands of the '60s.

not to mention how much better the Dead and the Airplane were than the Byrds

ugh puke argh

ccr are not really sf

Where were they living?

"There was no San Francisco sound when we started playing. There weren't any bands in the high school district we were in. We were the only rock and roll band practically on the East Bay," Clifford said. "We played what we liked, and that was blues. The real blues. The raw blues ... and country, the real country, Hank Williams and the like."

http://www.wiscnews.com/news/local/article_59ccc37e-46b5-11e0-8025-001cc4c03286.html

That isn't the same as saying they weren't from San Francisco, just that they predated a particular sound that supposedly emerged from there. From the same article: "Living in the Bay area in the early 1960s there were a lot of diverse cultural styles in the music world and no real sound."

the airplane in particular are easily one of the worst bands of the '60s.

Ouch--I must present counter-evidence and flee.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCVMWx08Nmk

San Francisco and El Cerrito are very, very different places

thousands of teenagers didn't flock to SF because of bill graham.

actually in part they did. Bill Graham as a promoter was so far ahead of everybody else's game it can't even be calculated. He understood what people wanted in terms of shows: what they wanted, how the shows had to feel, how what was going on was different from what had gone on in the fifties. Bill Graham was the guy who packaged it, and thousands of teenagers flocked to SF because the sense they were getting from the media was that that was a package they wanted to buy into it. Thousands of teenagers didn't flock to SF because of a miraculous grassroots groundswell. There was a shit-ton of marketing involved and a lot of money to be made, and Bill Graham knew how to play the angles on that without too too many people getting cynical or suspicious.

I mean I guess you can argue "the Fillmore wasn't that big a part of the whole SF music scene from '65 onward" if you want but you will be talking utter nonsense

bill graham should write a letter to morrissey, maybe help him out

Aren't you splitting hairs, iatee? From the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame bio:

The origins of the group date back to 1959, when guitarist Fogerty, bassist Stu Cook and drummer Doug “Cosmo” Clifford formed the Blue Velvets, an instrumental cover band, while attending junior high in the San Francisco suburb of El Cerrito.

If three-quarters of the band, including Fogerty, first met as junior high students in a San Francisco suburb, that seems more San Francisco to me than some of these bands where the personnel came from other parts of the country altogether.

it's not really a san francisco suburb. it's a small town in the east bay that's, if anything, a suburb of oakland. someone growing up in el cerrito at that time is fairly isolated from the city of san francisco.

oh sweet the thread is about suburbs now

and thousands of teenagers flocked to SF because the sense they were getting from the media was that that was a package they wanted to buy into it. Thousands of teenagers didn't flock to SF because of a miraculous grassroots groundswell. There was a shit-ton of marketing involved and a lot of money to be made, and Bill Graham knew how to play the angles on that without too too many people getting cynical or suspicious.

yeah, I was being tongue in cheek obv about giving LA credit for inventing the SF scene. But you are leaving out some important factors like the Red Dog Saloon, the Human Be-In, Family Dog, and outside factors like the teenage scene on the sunset strip getting shut down in late '66 that all set the stage for Graham to become a multimillionaire. and certainly thousands of kids across the country specifically went to SF because of the stupid song, or because people heard about Monterey.

btw, I highly recommend the Domenic Priore book Riot on Sunset Strip to anyone interested in the subject

I live in the Bay Area but gotta vote with the Byrds, Beach Boys and Buffalo Springfield.

could not in good conscience vote for any list which contains the Dead

i'm including the Bay Area, voting for the San Francisco. it was just more impactful, objectively.

the San Francisco scene.

born and bread in Los Angeles ect...

i grew up on KROQ

wait, how many californians here are voting the opposite of where they're from? I'm a bay area kid voting LA.

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3116/3486805440_c741bdf2cf.jpg

Worlds colliding.

(Bee OK and wk: should I count CCR as San Francisco or not? That probably decides my vote one way or the other.)

If so, you should not count any band that lived outside of LA proper then (Zappa, Beefheart, and I'm sure many others).

Is Topanga part of L.A.?

Sly is from Vallejo fwiw

I love that this poll coming down to whether or not we give LA County more credit for absorbing all these shitty suburbs.

If so, you should not count any band that lived outside of LA proper then

That's really my point: L.A. and San Francisco should be interpreted in a general sense here. Anything to do with Vallejo should be adjudicated by this guy:

http://i1059.photobucket.com/albums/t427/sayhey1/mulanax_zps0e6effa9.jpg

Other soul people? Brenton Wood was from L.A.

Bee OK and wk should I count CCR as San Francisco or not?

i did because without them my vote would have went down south.

come on guys, no need to get picky about stupid municipal boundaries. this is just bay area vs. southern california. the dividing line should be Delano, same as the nortenos and surenos use.

zappa lived in laurel canyon though and the trout mask replica house is in woodland hills, both within LA city limits. didn't the grateful dead form in palo alto or something? take a look at where all of the first acid tests were http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid_Tests Santa Cruz, San Jose, Muir Beach, Palo Alto.

right this isn't about city limits its about scenes and ccr weren't a part of the scene

were sly and the family stone a part of the scene?

produced beau brummels, grace slick's first band. so, yes.

from wikipedia article on Santana:

"The group's first audition with this line up was at the Avalon Ballroom in the late summer of 1967. After the audition, Chet Helms the promoter, in concert with The Family Dogg, told the band that they would never make it in the San Francisco Music Scene playing Latin fusion and suggested Carlos keep his day job washing dishes at Tick Tock's Drive-In on 3rd St."

there's also just more sf-in-1969 in sly's music whereas like ccr's whole thing is that there really isn't and people to this day think it's a southern band

Closing night at the Fillmore West in '71 was Santana, Creedence Clearwater Revival, the Grateful Dead, and Quicksilver Messenger Service. CCR must have been viewed by Bill Graham and by the audience as being in the general orbit of those bands. (If the argument is that they were radically different in terms of style and attitude, sure; but the Mothers and Mamas & Papas seem worlds apart too.)

http://www.wou.edu/las/creativearts/music/209guideFinal.pdf

33. Were the lyrics and the sound of Creedence Clearwater Revival typical of the San Francisco scene? If not, what were the differences?

obviously the answer to this FINAL EXAM is no, they were not

dude iatee, the seminal band of the whole scene was the Charlatans FFS! they played old timey music and dressed up like cowboys in victorian suits! CCR's whole style fit perfectly into the SF scene at the time. have you listened to early Grateful Dead? ever heard moby grape or quicksilver messenger service?

ccr don't even have a hint of psychedelic in their sound

again do you really think the answer for that FINAL EXAM is yes, of course it's not, so I have a western oregon university professor on my side now

Your answer is right in the question, iatee: "of the San Francisco scene." It's like asking if X-Ray Spex's sound was typical of the British punk scene circa 1977. It wasn't. Which doesn't mean X-Ray Spex wasn't part of that scene.

I would have loved to have been at any of Fifty Foot Hose's SF gigs in '67-'68. They're sort in the same camp as United States Of America, but plugged into that particular ley line of Bay Area Bummer Psychosis that The Residents, Negativland, etc. also mined.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cq-A8BouRg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WRd-MP30MY

a billboard article from nov 14, 1970 has convinced me I am wrong

I will not quote the parts that show why I am wrong and quote this part instead, because it is more interesting:

"Gleason feels like one of the most overlooked aspects of the San Francisco scene is the fact that urban renewal hadn't destroyed old buildings, so that ballrooms and clubs still existed.

The physical elements were present in Los Angeles, Chicago, but not in Boston, New York. I mean the old ballrooms, clubs, the possibility of communicating to the youth-hippie-university audience quickly and in an open way." Gleason points out. "What has happened in San Francisco hasn't happened in any other city. I don't think it could happen anywhere else. The Bay Area has a particularly homogenous nature and the radio is open."

I thought iatee was kidding at first, but he's not--the article starts on page 6.

I think I'll have to do a Markov Chain Analysis or something to figure out my vote. I'd forgotten I had this, which has some great stuff out of L.A. (half of it too early for this poll).

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51YoMBmOQnL.jpg

Trini Lopez tips this to LA for me.

(half of it too early for this poll).

it's funny though the timeframe of the question isn't really defined beyond just '60s in general, so we really should be including Phil Spector, surf music, etc. on LA's side too.

shout out to it's a beautiful day, stoneground, sons of champlain

i'm always meaning to check out more country joe.

cold blood!

the timeframe of the question isn't really defined beyond just '60s in general

I guess I was thinking from '65 to the end of the decade--that's how I interpreted the post that triggered the poll. So someone like Ritchie Valens is much too early.

Looks like CCR was playing quite a bit in San Francisco in '68
http://www.kolumbus.fi/~w419755/ccr-jcf/set.htm

Dino & Carlo's, San Francisco. In 1968, [CCR] played there each Tuesday.

What a brave band to log all those miles, commuting 15 miles one way from their "very, very different city"... if only if it was as easy as getting from Topanga to Hollywood.

its not there's a bridge

love the byrds and buffalo springfield but between santana, airplane, dead, It's a beautiful day, sly, blue cheer, steve miller band.. gotta go with norcal.

ccr don't even have a hint of psychedelic in their sound

I can't even... 20-minute versions of R&B songs? check. backwards tape effects? check. fanciful lyrics about circus animals and cowboys? check.

CCR and Sly were both huge parts of the Bay Area scene, the distinguishing factor between them and the rest of the shit is the fact that they wrote better songs. like, 3 minute pop songs that were catchy and well-written and impeccably executed.

a lot of this is admittedly just cause I don't want any reason to defend the rest of the sf scene

which was full of terrible terrible music

also the beach boys are better than every single norcal band in history so

Shit I didn't know this stuff was going to be on the final. Since Fogerty has such a distinctive voice and wrote one of the most amazing strings of hit singles in pop history it doesn't make sense to describe the band as "typical" in any way. But their old timey southern affectations were a more commercialized development of the types of influences that had been big in the bay area music scene since the early '60s folk music revival. Bands like the Charlatans and the Grateful Dead started out as old time jug bands and eventually created country rock hybrids mixing psychedelic rock with their southern folk and blues influences. The Beau Brummels (basically the first SF rock band) released their country rock album Bradley's Barn (recorded at and named after the famous Nashville studio) the same year as CCR's debut. Quicksilver Messenger Service even played Suzie Q in their live sets. Southern blues and folk influences were completely integrated into the SF music scene from the beginning.

big xp to iatees way upthread stuff

Did the early San Francisco rock stars live in seclusion or among "regular" people?

Bear in mind that the Sunset Strip is not even in LA proper, it's in the incorporated city of West Hollywood.

Other random thoughts:

Let's not forget Canned Heat on the LA side.

What about people like Lee Hazlewood/Nancy Sinatra, Neil Diamond, Sonny & Cher...?

I honestly wonder which would be more fun in reality, going to a show at the Whiskey or to a show at the Fillmore or Avalon, circa 1966. Isn't it true that the Fillmore didn't serve alcohol?

yeah, for anyone to seriously vote SF just seems like challops of the worst kind to me. LA was the center of the musical world for a few years there at arguably the pinnacle of recorded music history. It wins just on sheer volume alone. That is, if you actually like this kind of music at all. TBH I don't really get anyone who doesn't basically like every band mentioned in the thread so far.

I'd probably vote LA for Hal Blaine alone.

..sorry

la put out some pretty pop songs, sf took us to outer spaces/extra dimensions

cozmik blues shredd, ecstatic soul

yeah clem I meant that specific scene the doors sprung out of, wasn't even thinking beach boys never mind nilsson, van dyke parks, monkees - that would just make the gap larger, though i also forgot how involved sly was w/ sf scene and also thought ccr weren't really part of that scene for some reason. think in some ways this is a doors vs jefferson airplane poll.

1st 5 steve miller band albums: one of the best album runs of the late 60s.

la put out some pretty pop songs, sf took us to outer spaces/extra dimensions

shit, LA surf bands already did that back when bay area nerds were still learning to tune up their banjos.

its not there's a bridge

nope, no bridge from San Jose to San Francisco. that would be Oakland to San Francisco. San Jose is about 40 miles though.

la put out some pretty pop songs, sf took us to outer spaces/extra dimensions

shit, LA surf bands already did that back when bay area nerds were still learning to tune up their banjos.

Hell, David Axelrod's production work was equally as spaced out - just in another direction.

Was always wondering if SF's elitism was from sour grapes that the LA bands all made more money.

wrong side of the bay, bee ok

Otm re: 50 Foot Hose btw, Elvis. Another cool SF band (tho they actually formed in Ohio) is Mad River.

xp

wrong side of the bay, bee ok

what i was saying is that you don't need a bridge to get from San Jose to San Francisco.

Dionne would know

shit no she didn't know!

wtf does san jose have to do with anything? ccr was from el cerrito

but let's talk about Count Five or Chocolate Watchband if you want to

for anyone to seriously vote SF just seems like challops of the worst kind to me

This really pushes a button with me. I assure you, I'm too old for such nonsense; if I post something here, it's because that's how I actually feel. Merely starting with CCR and Sly on one side, of course someone can legitimately prefer San Francisco. In my case, when you revere the Airplane and are kind of tired of the Beach Boys, and the Charlatans and Beau Brummels just happened to hit upon this sound you love--"Alabama Bound" is as drony and as mysterious as the Velvets for me--then it's even easier.

Having said that,

don't really get anyone who doesn't basically like every band mentioned in the thread so far

sums up my own feelings well (i.e., that I basically like every band, not that I can't imagine someone else disliking some of them). Of the first 20 bands I listed, the Doors, Steve Miller, Love, and Quicksilver Messenger Service mean the least to me. But there are songs I like by all of them. I'm not that big a Country Joe fan--but I had "Janis" in a Top 100 list I posted a couple of years ago. There's just so much amazing music here, from top to bottom and on both sides.

50ft Hose definitely a point in San Fran's favour, but nowhere near enough.

yeah, for anyone to seriously vote SF just seems like challops of the worst kind to me.

here's the thing. I hate the fucking Beach Boys. If LA had the Beatles, the Rolling Stones, Steely Dan, and Ludwig van Beethoven, they'd still have the Beach Boys, whose music is the most unpleasant racket I've ever heard. I would rather listen to my own Cheyne-Stokes respirations than sit through Pet Sounds. So this big grail of LA is to me a gigantic demerit.

Are there any good books that take a good look at the late-60s Beach Boys? I've never read anything on them.

There's one book that got a lot of praise in the late '70s--I remember "Myth" in the title, so this must be the one.

http://www.amazon.com/Beach-Boys-California-Myth/dp/0448146266/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1370266352&sr=1-1&keywords=beach+boys+myth

Haven't read it.

Formats Amazon Price New from Used from
Expand Collapse Hardcover -- $804.46 $149.99
See # more hardcovers
Show fewer hardcovers
Expand Collapse Paperback -- $297.08 $55.99
See # more paperbacks
Show fewer paperbacks

Yeah, pickings seem to be few and far-between! There's basically nothing available for nook or kindle, either.

LA wins easily but you could sorta add Creedence to the SF list in terms of geography and timing if not sound.

Putting Beefheart/Zappa/Mothers in the generic ”etc” category in the poll text seems kinda weird

I went by the Rhino box sets for those lists--they weren't included, so they slipped my mind (ditto CCR). Not a comment on either.

Also you can't really vote SF without overlooking all the great factory/industry pop in LA....maybe LA vs Detroit would be a more fair fight w motown in addition to the pfunk/stooges etc?

At some point in '66 John Fogerty was drafted into the Army Reserve and he only re-entered civilian life in July '67. Also, Doug Clifford was in the Coast Guard Reserve around this time. Perhaps CCR's link with the San Francisco scene was broken in some sense by missing out on that crucial period of it.

The first couple of CCR lps sound like they're being influenced by what's going on around them in SF. Extended jammed songs on the first lp & a lot of the same feeling on the 2nd. Seems like they change quite a bit, get more succinct and less repetitively expansive by the 3rd lp.

Ramble Tamble extendedness seems to have a different feel to that of Suzy Q certainly.
So that's '68 and early '69 where they still sound like they fit in.
There are 3 or 4 different lps in '69 so not sure if that's reflecting different influences or different production. What I've heard of live stuff from that time sounds like its got a lot of the feel that their Suzy Q has, jammed out stuff.

The LA region is so much larger and more populous than SF that it's really not a fair fight. With that in mind, LA scene (or anti-scene, maybe) just seems more diverse, so many different bands with different approaches, as opposed to a bunch of ex-folkies jamming on Gibson SGs (plus Sly the outlier.) So it's LA pretty easily, but I have high regard for the SF scene nonetheless - really, I like practically everyone mentioned on this thread so far.

50ft Hose definitely a point in San Fran's favour, but nowhere near enough.

United States of America easily balances that out for LA's side.

I always forget the United States was from LA. Yeah I am comfortable with my vote...

USA were very short lived though. Less than 6 months in the recording line-up I think.

Some other LA bands that haven't been mentioned yet but are worth consideration:

Leaves, Dovers, The Merry Go Round, The Rising Sons, Alice Cooper, Millennium, Sagittarius, The Association, The Smoke, October Country, The Ballroom, Eternity's Children

Davie Allan & the Arrows

might as well allow Dr. John in there too

also the beach boys are better than every single norcal band in history so

otm x 1000 (except for sly)

i realize this is a boring un-hip opinion and everyone who's cool has long since moved on to being 'over' hating the dead but it needs to be said: the grateful dead are still the worst of the fucking worst

Worse even than the Airplane? Your animosity spilleth over...

i was probably going a bit overboard upthread -- i do like a couple airplane songs.

Well apart from them 9grateful Dead) being absolutely brilliant up to 1974 at least. Well at least lots of their recorded material the ability to fail live just added to the risk which made it more interesting. But there is hours of very good impro rock that is amazing

One Dead song I'd recommend to anyone who doesn't get with their wandering stuff: "Cold Rain and Snow" from their debut. Just a great pop song.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7qkbF8PbtE

Well apart from them 9grateful Dead) being absolutely brilliant up to 1974 at least. Well at least lots of their recorded material the ability to fail live just added to the risk which made it more interesting. But there is hours of very good impro rock that is amazing

― Stevolende, Monday, June 3, 2013 4:23 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^ stoned right now

xp
lame song

Not stoned at all. Fact , the Grateful dead put out fantastic music up until their '74 retirement and some afterwards. & there is literally hours of amazing impro rock that is scorching, possibly hundreds of hours.
The band in full flight, especially between '68 and '70 is amazing.

so stoned

get ahold of yourself man

We made history last night by getting you to admit you were wrong about something, iatee; I'm hoping you'll also come around on "Cold Rain and Snow" someday.

you were having an acid flashback clem I never admitted I was wrong

lol

a billboard article from nov 14, 1970 has convinced me I am wrong

― iatee, Sunday, June 2, 2013 10:14 PM (Yesterday)

Flashing back all over again.

http://i.imgur.com/hIlaWeS.jpg

Just a great pop song.

this song sucks fyi

Well, I don't think I'm making any converts here--along with "China Cat Sunflower" and "Friend of the Devil," it's my favourite Dead song.

if you're not stoned right now yet you're participating in a thread called "west coast vs. west coast" about which city had a better '60s rock scene, then I really question wtf you're doing with your life.

some really boring trolling in this thread, I grew up in SoCal and have spent hours & hours rolling out anti-NoCal hate, good times on Friday nights. ~When I was a teenager.~ Not afterwards though. Anybody got some "hippies are smelly!" jokes? Lol!!

I stick with what I'm saying. Dead have a larger archive of recorded material than most and between the late 60s & mid 70s there is a stack of jaw dropping music by them. They were incredible in full flight. As out there as pretty much anybody before or since.

NorCal is a better place than SoCal it just made worse music

San Francisco is too nice to really inspire good music whereas the beach boys were inspired by the bleakness and despair that is Los Angeles

This turned out a lot more strident than I expected. I actually thought it'd be everyone tripping over each other about how great such-and-such are. Instead it's been the Jefferson Airplane are awful, the Beach Boys are awful, the Grateful Dead are awful, etc.

Santana up to Caravenserai is really some of the best shit ever, just incredibly pleasurable music.

Peanut Butter Conspiracy are good.

This turned out a lot more strident than I expected. I actually thought it'd be everyone tripping over each other about how great such-and-such are. Instead it's been the Jefferson Airplane are awful, the Beach Boys are awful, the Grateful Dead are awful, etc.

hey you're the one who was claiming the Charlatans were equals to the Beach Boys! just because the beach boys had the nerve to make music that was so great you listened to it until you were utterly sick of it.

San Francisco is too nice to really inspire good music whereas the beach boys were inspired by the bleakness and despair that is Los Angeles

true. freaks vs. hippies sums it up really. a bunch of nice, well educated kids playing dress up vs. some truly strange and damaged people, hustlers, social climbers, and just the overall dregs of society.

"I OD'd on Endless Summer as a teenager, and I'm not as enamored of Pet Sounds and beyond as everyone else"--that doesn't exactly seem the same as saying such-and-such is the worst thing ever. I also said I realized I'd be alone on valuing the Charlatans just as much.

I mean, that's fine. I'm just saying I'm surprised that some of these bands are so hated.

"just because the beach boys had the nerve to make music that was so great..."

Where do you come up with stuff like this?! You're saying you never get a little tired of certain artists because you went through a period where you played them too much?

I was just giving you a hard time. I do think that some of the hate on this thread must be exaggerated. a lot of the time "that sucks" really means, "if pushed, I would begrudgingly accept that it's classic but I've heard it too much and am bored of it."

One thing that definitely interferes with my feelings about the Beach Boys today--I suppose it shouldn't, but it does--is the idea that they've never stopped, that they're still out there going through the motions and playing these songs. I think of Mike Love, and that interferes. Ditto the Rolling Stones, ditto the Who. (Bob Dylan and Neil Young, being so idiosyncratic, are spared from that.) The Charlatans, Moby Grape, Beau Brummels, even Sly, that's not a problem--it's easier to romanticize them, and easier to keep some of that mystery intact. Again, not fair, but a reality for me.

the last Beach Boys album actually had some startlingly good stuff on it

true story

Surprised nobody added Flying Burritos Bros to the LA pile-on.

just the overall dregs of society.

Grateful Dead fans iirc

i saw one of the BBs 'reunion' concerts last year and i was kinda stunned by how good it was. probably as much due to the backup band as anything, but nearly all the songs sounded great.

All I heard was the single, and--I'm about to get strident--I thought it was dreadful. Maybe there's other stuff I'd like, I don't know. Was Brian involved?

(FBB, yes--the International Submarine Band, too?)

There are precious few situations where I'm not going to vote for whatever side the Byrds are on, so LA in a walk for me.

Was Brian involved?

the single was fucking horrible. but yes Brian was involved in the album.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaDiwoACJ2Q

not great (Al's voice kinda bugs) but song is more than I would have expected them being capable of

Thanks--that's really nice, yeah (especially with the old footage). No idea how they could release that other song instead.

Oh, I love it. I think it's classic Beach Boys bubblegum.

Strange, but one of the first things that really drew me to the Beach Boys was "All Summer Long" over the end credits of American Graffiti when I was 12 or 13. They had an identity for me before that--a few songs I knew from the radio, a best-of in my parents' record collection--but American Graffiti, and then Endless Summer right after, established a much stronger connection. Lucas's use of the song was so perfect--I'm too lazy to check, but I think the opening notes are precisely timed to the visuals.

I say strange because, in the context of American Graffiti, the Beach Boys represent the scary future, or at least the confusing present--it's surf music that Milner, the aging, die-hard rocker, doesn't really understand and dismisses contemptuously.

l, the Beach Boys are awful,

otm

yeah, they're no country joe & the fish

Davie Allan and the Arrows otoh are fuckin awesome!

Wondering if we shouldn't be polling this important question instead:

LA: Black Flag, Germs, X, The Weirdos, The Go-Gos, The Screamers, etc.
SF: Dead Kennedys, Flipper, The Avengers, Crime, The Nuns, The Units, etc.

Absolutely love this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BaRppv4fgjo

LA: Black Flag, Germs, X, The Weirdos, The Go-Gos, The Screamers, etc.
SF: Dead Kennedys, Flipper, The Avengers, Crime, The Nuns, The Units, etc.

LA no contest even saddled with the heavy weight of Greg Ginn's comedy stylings

thread is turning into a greatest hits of aeros hates lol but yeah LA no contest in the punk division

LA RULES deal with it

LA has The Monkees. SF has the Grateful Dead. This is no fucking contest.

also aero how the hell can you open up on the Beach Boys and then turn around and straight-facedly say "there's been some boring trolling on this thread"???? respect

Thats not trolling; thats doing battle w dreaded foe iatee

Generic Flipper would be my favourite album from the punk group, and the Avengers' "The Amerikan in Me" probably my favourite song. I'd still vote L.A. for the combined X/Germs/Black Flag output, plus the Dead Kennedys would be a huge minus.

Generic and Fresh Fruit are two of my favorite albums of the 80s, plus the Avengers. Also: wasnt Chrome kind of in that scene? SF punk all the way...

But wait Gun Club is LA arent they? Maybe its not so clear cut :/

huh I always thought all these bands were from the same place ¯\(°_o)/¯

I only know country joe from the st to the movie of quiet days in clichy which I watched a lot as a teenager ahem

Thats not trolling; thats doing battle w dreaded foe iatee

iatee and I are fellow Steely Dan heads, I don't think our blood feud carries over to ILM for the most part

OC punk even beats SF

Chrome is the only good band from San Francisco, but they're progressive rock.

El Chicano was way better than Santana

yeah our blood feud is mostly politics/worldview but it is kinda appropriate that aero loathes my favorite band

don't forget Flesheaters/Horsemen/Chris D.!!!

does Pedro count as L.A.?

OC punk even beats SF

I think this is a makeable case

yeah, I was kind of serious with that. DI, Adolescents, I guess TSOL was from Long Beach so maybe they don't count as OC.

does Pedro count as L.A.?

it's called the Port of Los Angeles for a reason

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nardcore
"Early bands in the Nardcore scene included Agression, Dr. Know, False Confession, Ill Repute, Habeas Corpus, RKL (Rich Kids on LSD) and Scared Straight."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZ9GyqL8eOs

The Residents & Negativland vs. the LA Free Music Society?

My 10 favorite songs from each side, no duplications allowed:

L.A.: "She Don't Care About Time" (Byrds), "Rock and Roll Woman" (Buffalo Springfield), "Wouldn't It Be Nice" (Beach Boys), "Egyptian Gardens" (Kaleidoscope), "You Showed Me" (Turtles), "Trouble Every Day" (Mothers of Invention), "Got a Feelin'" (Mamas & Papas), "Take a Giant Step" (Monkees), "Christine's Tune" (Flying Burrito Brothers), "Going Up the Country" (Canned Heat).

San Francisco: "Mexico" (Jefferson Airplane), "Hot Fun in the Summertime" (Sly & the Family Stone), "Ramble Tamble" (CCR), "Alabama Bound" (Charlatans), "Cold Rain and Snow" (Grateful Dead), "Omaha" (Moby Grape), "When It Comes to Your Love" (Beau Brummels), "Janis" (Country Joe & the Fish), "Down on Me" (Big Brother & Holding Company), "Dino's Song" (Quicksilver Messenger Service).

If I started rating those songs out of 10, "Dino's Song" is the only one I'd give less than a 9, and it'd be close. There'd be many 10s, more on the San Francisco side. I'm much more of a song than album guy, so if I put discographies aside--and I realize that's inconceivable for most people--and base the comparison on my very favourite songs only, San Francisco would just barely win.

Like NickB posted, not voting for the Byrds in any context feels wrong to me. But San Francisco it is.

Mexico and Ramble Tamble are both 1970. LA wins again.

Good point--I did say '65-69. I could change those to "It's No Secret"/"Come Up the Years"/"Today"/"We Could Be Together" or "Bad Moon Rising"/"Fortunate Son" (most of my favourite Creedence stuff is '70/'71) and it would barely move the needle, though.

(You're trying to give me a hard time again, right?)

too late. disqualified!
xp

the court rules in favor of Los Angeles

http://monkees.coolcherrycream.com/include/w.php?i=images/season-1/14-dance-monkee-dance/0509-mike-davy.jpg

Sorry, I know those two guys, and they're from El Cerrito.

nah, you're thinking of that other bubblegum act

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

sonned francisco

appalling result.

actually, it's not. it's just different from how i voted. the beach boys were a pretty good band i guess.

From the tenor of the posts, that's about what I expected. Thank goodness for El Cerrito.

why not?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jkwvz2JD2PQ

That's a good one--familiar, think I have it on a compilation. "Free Advice" is my favourite by them.

yeah grace slick's vocal part in that is awesome. bay area acid rock was good stuff.

Voted LA, but I expect this to be a lot closer

i think people here might hate the grateful dead more than the doors because they are insane

I'M NOT CRAZY

dead has considerable support on ilx, they did pretty well in a series of polls putting them head to head against their peers last year. someone should probably redo all of those, see if the numbers have changed.

interesting. i know that "jam bands" as a rule aren't popular here, but i have always liked the dead's studio recordings better than their live stuff. touch of grey is my favorite dead song by light years... which probably marks me as someone who doesn't like them very much, but i think they are more palatable than the doors who are tedious and self-important in my view. i voted san fran because of the psychedelic rock scene and sly stone.

you are both too old and too young for the doors, the lizard waits for you but you do not yet know it.

L.A. just comes at this from too many directions imo. Apart from the mega-huge rock groups, it was EASILY the biggest garage rock scene in the whole country (Standells, Love, Music Machine, Seeds, Leaves, etc.) and a major pop hub.

I don't expect much agreement, but I think the Nuggets bands as a whole are overrated. Not their most famous songs--those are great. (You can get a lot of them in one place: Nuggets.) I've collected a fair amount of music from the Standells, Music Machine, Seeds, etc. over the years, and once you get past the "Moulty"s and "Pushin' Too Hard"s, there's not a lot. There's not a garage album I've ever heard that's nearly as good as the first Moby Grape LP.

I know, I know--the ghost of Lester Bangs just gave me the finger.

There are certainly garage band greatest hits albums that are as good or better than the first Moby Grape LP. The Music Machine had an incredible run of singles, the first three of which were big-time double A-sides:

"Talk Talk" / "Come On In" (1966)
"The People in Me" / "Masculine Intuition" (1967)
"Double Yellow Line" / "Absolutely Positively" (1967)

I've got this one:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41GMBEJY7KL.jpg

They do a great "Cherry, Cherry," I'll give you that.

are albums the point?

Who knows? Whoever came up with this poll didn't set the parameters very clearly.

knew LA would take this but damn

don't think I even voted :-/

this is relevant:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tq19haZ0w7s

haha wow, I missed these results! groovy.