Ooh Ooh Ooh, Complete CLASH POLL (that's a laugh) - ILX Artist Poll #41 (?) - Voting Ends July 9th at Midnight (EST)

http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/500/40962/The+Clash.jpg

The only band that matters...to some.

The longish voting period is due to the July 4th holiday, plus I don't really know what I'm doing so maybe I'll have it figured out by then.

Following the format set by others:

Ballot Part One (mandatory): Your Top 30 Clash songs. Same as ever scoring method. No need to number just have them in order from 1 to 30 with 1 on top. As ever you don't need to submit as many as 30.

Ballot Part Two (optional): Your Top Clash albums. I know it might burn the s/t's chances, but please note if you're voting for the US or the UK version as I am counting them as two separate albums. Black Market Clash is also an option (and yes, I'm combining the normal and the "Super" because I can do that).

Ballot Part Three (optional) Since these polls have expanded, but The Clash don't have much in the way of music videos really, I'm going to ask for your Top 5 live tracks. They can be from the officially released live albums (From Here to Eternity/Shea Stadium), from tv appearances (1977 So it Goes, etc), or from the bootlegs that have gained notoriety over the years. This might be a really stupid idea, but if nobody cares then they don't have to submit, and it's worth a shot maybe.

Send ballots to theclashpoll AT gmail dot com

Deadline for voting is July 9, Eastern Standard Time

Shout out to Bee OK, from whom I nicked this intro format.

wanna put in a good word for "This is England."

I really like that song, but I was considering requiring a compulsory 300 word (minimum) defense if someone put Cut the Crap in the top 3 of their albums ballot.

YEAH!

FUCKIN AWRIGHT YEAH

Will be compiling my votes wearing my special voting fedora fyi

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lh13mpWx8R1qckm0wo1_500.jpg

I wonder if Paul considered introducing himself as "the cool one"

I like "This is England" alright, but picking only 30 Clash songs is gonna be brutal, so no way is it making the cut.

TESTED BY RESEARCH

aw hell yeah, this is gonna be fun and I have good stories to tell...

"Favourite Live Performance" is a tough one, I like whole albums more than individual tracks......

But I'd rep for "Capital Radio" off "The Guns Of Brixton" ("There will be Noooooh Rock And Rolll") (live at the Palladium, New York, New York, September 21, 1979)

.. and the whole of the "Live In Jamaica" (did the final song ever get found?)

ANd those "Previously unreleased" things like "Midnight To Stevens", for example.

Don't get me wrong, they wrote some great songs, but some of their covers were even better. Police on My Back, Brand New Cadillac, Armigideon Time, Police and Thieves, I Fought the Law....

.. wrong'em Boyo, Time is tight

Conversely, Sparks did a cover of "We Are The Clash"

I never got The Clash for so long. I think I'm on board now, but this poll is the acid test.

Hell, Paul Simonon looked good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKWO-wgzf20

my suggestion for this poll: listen to the 2nd half of london calling more

Hmm. I'll have to have a long, hard think about this one.

The Stranglers > The Clash, in any case.

This'll be interesting, because (bootlegs aside) there's really no such thing as a Clash deep cut. If you know them well enough to vote, you probably know the entire discography.

But in the spirit of the Husker Du poll, we could have a good spirited Joe vs. Mick debate.

And my obligatory lobbying post goes to "Julie's Been Working for the Drug Squad."

Deep cut?

One of my "live" noms is gonna be "How can I understand the flies"

Excited for this one!

Oh yeah..

When it came out, I thought one of their songs was about loads of walls...

"He's in love with a Rock and Roll Wall
He's in love with a GettyStone Wall
He's in love with a Jenny Jones Wall..."

I still love Mick's bad moods being described by Joe as "Liz Taylor on a bad day"

"okay okay don't push us when we're HOT" is probably going to tip "Armagideon Time" into my ballot.

voted.

i like plenty of Clash moments but good god "London Calling" is the dreariest, most over-played piece of shit in their career

The song or the album?

I included the song, but mostly for 25-ish years of kicking around in my head. I honestly don't need to ever hear it again.

the song, i don't know if it's the tempo, the over-familiarity, the lack of range...the other week i thought about starting a thread about it and Bowie's "Heroes" as examples of artists' most popular songs that are amongst their suckiest

Clash are a prime example of a band with enough facets that i can find some fans whose fandom is inexplicable to me, like they like a different group to the one i do.

i don't really like the myth tho, just individual moments. i like Joe best when i can't understand a word he's saying tbh

I think overhearing it has done that song in for me as well, but it still works brilliantly as an album opener. It's just that the rest of the album is so much better.

Clash sure knew how to open an album - Janie Jones, Safe European Home, London Calling, Magificent 7, Know Your Rights

"Clash City Rockers" opened the US version ;_;

ballot sent, though I didn't do much re-listening. I ended up putting Complete Control a lot higher than I might have expected

Guerrilla marketing via the thread title. Should've gone with Give 'Em Enough Votes

i like Joe best when i can't understand a word he's saying tbh

That's what I wrote in an obit for Pop Matters:

I fixated on the voice because I couldn’t understand what the hell he was saying. The more I listened, the harder it was to tell his guttural snarls from the equally guttural guitars. To this day, I have probably listened to that first Clash album more than any other single piece of music. And to this day, even after reading the lyrics, I can’t tell what the hell he’s saying. But I know what he means—you can feel it in every joyful angry spit and gargle. He got a little more comprehensible as time went by, but you never needed the words to understand the songs.

Also "Clash City Rockers" rules! It's their Louie Louie/Can't Explain/You Really Got Me.

Been thinking about this since I saw it queued up last year, so here goes:

I think there are many perfect Clash songs but no perfect "Clash" songs: Clashy perfection lies in the whole. To wit:

__the self-discovering excitement and beauty of the UK debut, but without the funky agility of Topper--big without for me.

__the giddy musicality of London Calling, but mythic-romantic literary BS and incipient gloss. (Though compared to so much other punk that year is sounds like '83 hardcore.)

__more personal lyrics but more diffuse arrangements and production on Sandinista!, leaving best tracks not quite Ur-Clash: slower than usual with Topper on steel drums ("Street Parade"), without Paul ("The Magnificent Seven"), or just beautifully weird ("Somebody Got Murdered").

__finest moments on Combat Rock atypically sad or resigned ("Straight to Hell," "Ghetto Defendant") or again without Paul ("Rock the Casbah").

__great singles in between, but with the produced-for-echo problem ("Complete Control," "White Man (In Hammersmith Palais)") or perfect recordings of not-Clash songs ("Armagideon Time," "I Fought the Law") or might-as-well-not-be-Clash-songs ("Bankrobber," "This Is Radio Clash").

The result for me is compulsive re-ranking, so I may just favor the underdogs and get it over with.

Pretty sure something from the US Festival will make my live ballot. Pete Howard was a motherfucker, and watching that show you can easily imagine them continuing on without Topper.

i think i'm the only person in history to like "remote control" better than "complete control"

Well, they're both on my short list. But my short list has 48 songs, so.

Also "Clash City Rockers" rules! It's their Louie Louie/Can't Explain/You Really Got Me.

― something of an astrological coup (tipsy mothra), Friday, June 28, 2013

OTM + All Day and All of the Night surely

the song, i don't know if it's the tempo, the over-familiarity, the lack of range...the other week i thought about starting a thread about it and Bowie's "Heroes" as examples of artists' most popular songs that are amongst their suckiest

― for many people a really special folder makes a huge difference (Noodle Vague), Friday, June 28, 2013

whoa. "heroes" may be played out but it's still A+... "london calling" at least B+

rock the casbah can go fuck itself tho

Should I Stay Or Should I Go? is all of these things xxp

Yeah this is definitely one where omitting the biggest hit doesn't feel at all contrarian.

(that was an xp about Casbah, not SISOSIG)

Casbah has that baseline though

So maybe I'd vote for Mustapha Dance

There's not a damn thing wrong with Casbah. Overexposure's not the song's fault.

It has its own kind of genius, it's just not one of my 30 favorite Clash songs.

Funny thing about Casbah is that it was some people's first or only experience of the Clash. I have run into people who think of them as some kind of one-hit novelty act.

"they also did Should I Stay or Should I Go"

"Ooh, that was them?"

I forgot to write up there but please include your ILX username in your ballots!

And now, to rep for this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpKWH8nXjBI

There's very little from this band I would not rep for.

But I will rep for "Know Your Rights."

And I will also for The Prisoner. Johnny Too Bad meets Johnny B. Goode in the Charing Cross Road.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLxM47cCTFc

^^ yep good'un

And "Groovy Times"!

Since I've already turned in my ballot, I feel good about people mentioning tracks I've voted for.

"White Man in the Hammersmith Palais"/"The Prisoner" might be my favorite A-B sides of any single ever.

"Groovy Times" is good, too. Best part is when Joe yelps "Hey, groovy!"

Don't get me wrong, they wrote some great songs, but some of their covers were even better. Police on My Back, Brand New Cadillac, Armigideon Time, Police and Thieves, I Fought the Law....

― Dr X O'Skeleton, Thursday, June 27, 2013 10:06 AM (3 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyv16mZakVE

live version but i love it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8XziO7L78I

That Amsterdam 81 bootleg is a beast--surprisingly, it only entered circulation pretty recently. Sony has proper masters for it and considered it for release but decided on the tedious Shea Stadium thing instead, which still annoys me.

ctrl+F "Train In Vain" no results found >:-(

More and more these days all I need to hear is "I'm So Bored" or "Straight To Hell."

pressure drop is the only clash cover I can think of that doesn't beat the original. but, hey, it's Toots and the Maytals ffs!

xxpost

surprisingly, it only entered circulation pretty recently. Sony has proper masters for it and considered it for release but decided on the tedious Shea Stadium thing instead, which still annoys me

a LOT of full shows in great quality started circulating after the From Here To Eternity live compilation was put together. if you want to conclude that a band member who was remastering that album, and all the records, at the time may have decided to release them into the wild since Sony didn't want to do a box set as well as the comp, I can't stop you

"Time Is Tight" too? (xpost) The Clash's cover is very good, though. I had "The Prisoner" high on my ballot.

Overexposure's never the song's fault, WC, but I do think it's a fact of life, and "London Calling" and "Rock the Casbah" are the only Clash songs that ever get played on the radio. Anyway, I've always really disliked "Casbah," so the overplay there doesn't much matter with me.

but decided on the tedious Shea Stadium thing instead

That and the '82 tracks on Eternity are unlistenable, entirely due to the ham-footed Terry Chimes.

"London Calling" and "Rock the Casbah" are the only Clash songs that ever get played on the radio.

And "I Fought he Law" and "Should I Stay or Should I Go." And "Train In Vain."

Forgot about "Should I Stay"--of course. "I Fought the Law" never gets played here, in any format. "Train in Vain" very occasionally on the classic-rock station.

I hear "Should I Stay" and "Casbah" fairly regularly on the "classic rock" station, and "London Calling" during the "alternative" station's "retro lunch."

Heard "Train In Vain" all the time on top 40 AM in 1980. Didn't know it was the Clash until five years later.

"Train In Vain" got a second life after Garbage sampled it for the basis of "Stupid Girl", which probably led to a lot of "turn it up!" fakeouts when listeners heard those opening beats.

got bollocked by my girlfriend for leaving Pressure Drop and The Prisoner off my ballot

The Terry Chimes' version of "Casbah" is wrong.

I don't blame him though

pressure drop is the only clash cover I can think of that doesn't beat the original

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v165/noodle_vague/shaking-my-head-picture_zps9f7939cc.gif

Listening to a lot of live tracks the last few days, reminds me that they always played everything so fast. If there was ever a band that needed a little less amphetamine, it was these guys.

I'll give some love to "One More Time."

The Terry Chimes' version of "Casbah" is wrong.

I don't blame him though

― Mark G, Sunday, June 30, 2013 5:16 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

They are definitely in the lineage of Who/Zep in that losing their drummer effectively killed their groove.

I hope Ellen Foley gets her due in the poll.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opFyTAA0DiI

Also makes me think there should be a whole poll sometime of pop songs about the music biz.

There wasn't much wrong with Terry, otherwise, apart from 'not being Topper'..

If Mick had still been on board, they could have carried on being almost as great..

Yeah, emphasis on almost. I think their run ended in a good place. Speaking of which, I did vote for "This Is England" but I know its status as a Clash song is pretty suspect.

They are definitely in the lineage of Who/Zep in that losing their drummer effectively killed their groove.

― something of an astrological coup (tipsy mothra), Sunday, June 30, 2013 2:41 PM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Definitely, but if they'd been able to get along with Mick, Pete Howard could've been their salvation. His playing on the US Festival show trounces anything they did with Chimes in the 80s (granted, not too difficult), but also nips at Topper's heels.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2keV-mx14jc

Strong drummer, but more a rock than funk guy. Sounds almost Grohl-ish.

I'd still rep for "In the pouring rain" as a lost classic (you have to get the strummer soundtrack CD to get it) and something to show they could have saved it.

Speaking of which, I did vote for "This Is England" but I know its status as a Clash song is pretty suspect.

Nah, it's the only post-Mick song that even Joe counted as a Clash song.

Even Mick said he liked it.

wasn't gonna vote in this but this thread is bringing me in so why not. I like the Clash, good classic rock band, like Thin Lizzy or the James Gang (though worse than the former & better than the latter).

"London Calling" is horrible, though.

Wow, that's some Eddy level shit there. Kudos.

I've recycled this story a lot--I recycle all my stories a lot--so I may have posted it on another thread somewhere, but I don't think so. I saw the Clash in late '79 at a famous show in Toronto:

http://i1059.photobucket.com/albums/t427/sayhey1/clash_zpsfe962572.jpg

It was the last rock-related show ever at the O'Keefe Centre, after about $5,000 worth of ripped-out seats. There'd been rock shows there going back to Led Zeppelin and Jefferson Airplane a decade earlier; from what I can tell, they started bringing bands back in the 2000s, after it had become the Hummingbird (now Sony) Centre. Anyway, I was there because my friend Peter had got me on to punk that summer (late to the party). I loved the Ramones and Sex Pistols, wasn't as big on the Clash. But when they played "White Riot" as an encore, that's when I--and I don't know; two dozen? a hundred other people?--ended up on stage. I can't remember what we were doing; singing or jumping or both, I guess. My memory is that I was only a few feet from Strummer, but it's so long ago, I don't know. I did manage to find a download of the whole show.

wow that is awesome clemenza

That's amazing. And Mick didn't shout at you to "GET OFF THE FUCKING STAGE!!" ?

No, but I remember shouting "Please don't ever get involved with the Wallflowers!" at him.

I've found two other accounts of the same show online:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kenschafer/4916010639/
http://cs.uwaterloo.ca/~plragde/music/concerts.html

I AM VERY EXCITED FOR THIS POLL.

#theonlybandthatmatters

I say that and yet I never remember to vote in these things. I am going to put a reminder on my phone.

Here's a thing about the Clash -- they have so many songs with great little moments in them, a particular cackle from Joe or a particular fill from Topper or just the way the piano or the horns sound or whatever, things that seem impossible to have really written or planned out. Their studio recordings seem alive and unruly in a way that very few other bands do, even other great bands. Maybe Exile on Main Street, maybe the Basement Tapes, but they sounded like that on almost every record, all the time.

OTM. And they were overflowing with ideas; they never seemed stuck, or like they were treading water.

It's hard to think of another band whose final album was both their biggest seller and their weirdest and most experimental. (I know Sandinista has more weird stuff by volume than Combat Rock, but as a percentage of the total I think Combat Rock beats it. Half the album is off the wall.)

"Cut the crap" exists, I feel the "Boom Box" really should include it.

Well like I said, I voted for " This Is England." But Combat Rock is still the last Clash album in any real sense. Cut the Crap at best needs an asterisk. (The Clashterisk!)

It's more a Clash album than "Squeeze" is a Velvet Underground one...

I think there's at least one other good song on Cut the Crap: "Life Is Wild." I only voted for "This Is England," but "Life Is Wild" was a possibility.

Weirdly, Christgau gave Cut the Crap a B+, same grade he gave to Combat Rock.

It's not good, but it's nowhere near as bad as people make out...

Well, it's probably accurately described, but.

The other track I like on Crap is "Are You Red...y?" It sounds like a lost Sigue Sigue Sputnik single.

It's more a Clash album than "Squeeze" is a Velvet Underground one...

eh, Doug Yule was at least *in* the Velvet Underground. no-one was left in The Clash when Bernie Rhodes made the record from Joe's demos

Everything they released is too commercial for me. I'm only voting for songs from Ratt Patrol From Fort Bragg.

Eh, they're nothing but street trash.
http://25.media.tumblr.com/86aa9f689f28fb2660b70fb1f9de4379/tumblr_mji0nrqVW81qzzz6ko1_400.jpg

lmao is this a commonly known factoid?

The Clash selected two guitarists, Nick Sheppard and Greg White, with the latter taking the name Vince White due to Simonon's refusal to play in a band with someone named "Greg".

Who can blame him?

this was England!

I like "Three Card Trick"; the Out of Control demo gets to me somehow. Cut the Crap showed how much they missed Mick as producer, along with everything else.

they never seemed stuck, or like they were treading water.

Against all consensus, I think it's a shame they never got back together.

There was serious talk of reuniting for a headlining spot on Lollapalooza '95, but Topper couldn't get a visa because of his drug charges.

And before Joe died, they talked about playing at the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame induction, but Simonon was against it.

i missed seeing joe in california a couple months before his death -- couldn't afford it. one of the biggest regrets of my life.

yeah the mescaleros played at the big day out but it was so effing crowded I couldn't get there in time, missed the whole thing

;_;

Missed him in Edinburgh a few weeks before. Still kick myself.

Ballot sent.

Turned out a lot different than I had envisioned.

Probably asked already:

30 picks for ballot 1, how many for 2 and 3?

Regards, MG

You can just rank all the albums if you want. Live tracks...uh...5?

cheers.

How many Clash tracks are there in total? If I check out the 5+1 albums and a singles collection, will I be missing much?

Extra tracks on "Super Black Market Clash" and the "Clash on Broadway" box set.

Also, a few live tracks of songs they either dropped early, or never got to record at the late end.

Mescaleroes at BDO was fine but their headline the night before was one of my top 5 gigs ever

Gosh, isn't Sandinista! fantastic?! This should be a Tusk-level ILM favourite, really.

it faffs a bit towards the end, saved only by the kiddie version of "Career Opportunities."

it is "triple album" honed to a cliche. it's too long and there's a bunch of stuff on there that doesn't need to be, especially the kiddie career opportunities. i wouldn't follow the line that they should've cut it down to a single album because the material suits a record that takes its time, but it would've been a significantly better double album, and as a back to back pair with london calling, such different records, it would have been really remarkable.

reviewing it for my college newspaper a long time ago as part of a "classics" series, I said the kiddie version was the band's utopian dream fulfilled: leftism absorbed by children demonstrating their solidarity by singing a Clash song.

I don't think it needs honing. I'm less and less a fan of perfect albums. After their biggest selling album, they needed to sprawl. Let it sprawl.

^^^ otm -- it's my favorite of theirs by far

"Mensforth Hill" may make my ballot.

I'm curious to see which Sandinista tracks will place, aside from the obvious ones. "Sound of the Sinners," "Lose This Skin," "Hitsville UK" and "Charlie Don't Surf" are my faves from that record.

Oh, and I suppose when we are voting we should specify which version of "Career Opportunities" we're voting for.

"Up in Heaven."

"Midnight Log"

Managed 2 from CTC, one other just failed to make the cut.

Are there any interviews out there (during or post-Clash) that get into their songwriting process? I've always assumed the songs Mick sings are full-on Mick songs, but less clear about the rest. I know in general Joe was more the lyrics guy and Mick more the music guy, but from Joe's solo work you can pretty much tell which musical influences he brought to the band.

it wasn't that clear-cut, as you'd imagine, and for ex Joe specifically wrote Lost In The Supermarket for Mick to sing. when they wrote same-room together it would often be Mick at guitar or piano and Joe sitting at a typewriter.

Rock The Casbah was written and recorded in a couple of hours - Joe came to the studio early to find Topper inspired, already there and racing back and forth playing (and possibly engineering?) all the parts himself; iirc the vocal and a bit of barrel-house piano is the only thing Joe contributed per his telling of the story.

Are there any actually good books on The Clash? Trying to read Marcus Gray's Last Gang in Town but its a sloggy info dump.

xps reading the Sandinista backstory, releasing it cut-price, the legend about them tricking the record company into letting them press up a triple - if you were already a fan of the band, you'd absolutely die for them after that. They could've got away with just releasing an album, but they give you an encyclopaedia.

Seems like their more overt followers learned the lesson well btw, the Manics delivering The Holy Bible, the Libertines issuing all those outtakes.

yeah i tried to read the marcus gray book years ago but got frustrated by his pedantic style and wound up skipping through most of it. if i recall he didn't even seem particularly enthusiastic about their music. i have the chris salewicz bio of joe, but haven't cracked it yet.

Voted.
30 songs, 1 album.
I don't think I know any live tracks. I'd have voted for my Top 5 lolposts on ILM by Alex in NYC about ver Clash if that had been on offer though. ;-)

Trying to read Marcus Gray's Last Gang in Town but its a sloggy info dump.

You need "Return of the ...", a lot of the sloggy has been removed.

Highly recommend 'A Riot of our Own'

This is the perfect opportunity for me to promote my unpopular love of Combat Rock and (especially) all the great B-sides from that record -- Cool Confusion, First Night Back in London, etc.

While we're on it, I hope everyone has bought that DVD with the videos and that CRAZY b/w super 8 gangster film "Hell W10" that someone discovered in a car boot sale.

i forgot about Hell W10. Man.

I think that was the last Clash related thing that Mick was involved in.

Can't believe there's cold water on Rock The Casbah upthread. It's an all-time monster.

from Sandinista: Junco Partner and Kingston Advice are the biggest sleepers for me.

The Clash were my road into reggae, and especially dub. At this point, I like the best at their most bluntly punk or most elaborately electronic. Black Market Clash has ended up my favorite, one side of each. Wish they left Bankrobber on SBMC, but I love all the rambling b-sides.

Tonight's listening brought back a really shitty moment in my life that felt like it had been transformed into some kind of triumph when I got home at 1am, threw open the windows and blasted and danced to Rock The Casbah loud. Eternal <3 to these guys for that alone.

The Clash meant a great deal when I discovered them between 1996 and 2000, but like sixties Dylan I've barely listened since. It's been revelatory hearing the likes of "1977," "Gates of the West," and the From Here to Eternity versions of "The Magnificent Seven" and "Complete Control" and catch my breath again for the first time since the first Bush administration.

People like to hate on From Here to Eternity, but that "Complete Control" is epic. Also the "Straight to Hell".

Can anyone make the case for the original version of the debut being better than the US version? I'm biased because I grew up on the US one, but it basically comes down to:

Deny
Cheat
Protex Blue
48 hours

vs.

Clash City Rockers
Complete Control
(White Man) in Hammersmith Palais
London's Burning
I Fought the Law

and I just don't see how that's even a contest.

We got the British version in Canada, with the same green cover. It was released here in '77; I bought it in '79. The blue American one I bought many years later.

"Complete Control" would be enough in and of itself to make the choice easy for me, but I guess the original is more revered simply because that's the album as it was meant to be.

I can understand a sort of purist position that the US one is not actually their first album -- and in the US, it wasn't. But as a collection of songs, imo it's one of the best things ever made by anyone, which the real debut is not quite.

Also my US vinyl version was a green cover, don't think I ever saw it with a blue cover.

When the American reshuffle came out here, they gave it a blue cover...The whole story on Discogs:

http://www.discogs.com/Clash-The-Clash/master/24371

Ah. Never seen that.

See, it's like they dropped "little child", "devil in her heart" and "not a second time" and replaced them with "She loves you", "From me to you" and "I wanna hold your hand"

from "With the beatles"

.. it may be better, but it's not the album..

Yeah, and that's a fair analogy. But as collections of songs, taking the "real" one on any grounds except chronological fidelity seems crazy.

(Not that we actually have to choose, especially these days. Dump it all onto an ipod and it doesn't matter.)

I was never crazy about the first album until I heard the UK version, which is now my second-favorite next to Sandinista!. The song sequencing is better than the U.S. (which was hugely important to the Clash, obviously), the sound-world it explores more obviously of-a-piece. "Janie Jones" has to be the opener, for me. It's such a warm, humane, pure, angry record.

I think my favorite Clash song is "Street Parade," which I had a chance to tell Joe in person. He just sort of chuckled and nodded, "Really." It's like the emotional flipside of "White Riot," epitaphic for a guy who turned from persons to the people for love again and again. I read that Topper was just learning steel drums. Totally second what Tipsy said about their recordings. My favorite band of all time.

Then again, I'm just getting into the Stranglers.

"White Man" and "Complete Control" are so powerful, I have to say Tipsy OTM on the US/UK versions.

"White Man" and "Complete Control" are so powerful

The sound of those songs. Even after 35 years of Sonic Youth, Swans, NIN, Atari Teenage Riot, Wolf Eyes, whatever, they're so ferocious and enveloping. They were by far the noisiest punk band -- at least in the studio -- but also the one that best understood dynamics and sonic space.

Like the break on "Complete Control" -- "I don't trust you, why should you trust me?" -- how everything falls out and you get the dubby echo, and then comes roaring back like a tank division.

I would have loved to have seen them live, but I still prefer their studio recordings over live recordings because of that. xpost

Looking at the debut cover art in blue instead of green is turning my world upside down right now.

objectively, the UK version probably does flow better, but the US version's what i heard first and i can't imagine the album not beginning with 'clash city rockers,' and not including 'complete control' and 'white man.' that said, i'd happily exchange 'jail guitar doors' for '48 hours.'

When they rereleased the UK and the US versions They were both green, but I think "The Clash" was on opposite sides.

The U.S. version of the debut is their best comp.

xp yeah UK version = "the clash" text at the bottom, US = text at top.

London's Burning is on both versions. those four US songs stand out too much, the UK version makes more sense.

They were by far the noisiest punk band

You must have some narrow parameters of what is a punk band?

I got the US version first cos that's what they reissued on CD even in the UK, tbh I agree with both sides of this argument, the UK version is better sequenced but the US version has more good songs, Complete Control is one of the best songs ever, etc.

Hated that Chris Salewicz biog of Strummer; like most bad biographers he tries to second guess his subject's motivations and sometimes lapses into thinly disguised envy

You must have some narrow parameters of what is a punk band?

Of that era, first-wave punk or whatever you want to call it, I don't know anyone whose records made such a racket.

It's hard to really measure what makes a band "Noisy" but try Small Wonder or Raw records for a start

I'd probably even think the Damned were noisier at this time. I'm not knocking the Clash at all, I am a fan and all, just never really thought of them as noisy before, I guess it might be a new perspective on them even?!

I got the US version first cos that's what they reissued on CD even in the UK,

both versions got remastered and reissued in all territories at the same time

though as per posts upthread you had to know a) this fact and b) the differences to know what you were getting

I'm talking about the first CD issues, not the late 90s ones when they did do both (unless you mean they did both in the late 80s as well? I am not claiming to be an authority on the subject)

ha yeah, i had just gotten into the clash and gotten the first album like a year before they issued both the US and UK versions in remastered form -- like the obsessive fool i was i ended up rebuying both.

ah I dunno about the late 80s

In re noise, the Damned and the various small-label punks were all noisy in (what seems retrospectively) very conventional ways. Basically just a lot of fuzztone and shouting. Which the Clash had too, but they valued noise as a disruptive aesthetic that I don't think anyone else of that vintage really got. I don't know how they got the sounds they got on the first album and subsequent singles, but those recordings explode in a way that nothing else from that era does. Everything else to me sounds sort of lo-fi and tinny by comparison, or murky like the Pistols. I love lots of that stuff, but the Clash just crackle like no one else. I think they were always very aware of sound as a vehicle. They got more sophisticated about it as they went, but they started out thinking about it a lot.

OK, actually X-Ray Spex was arguably as noisy, between Poly and the saxophone. Probably why they're my other favorite band of that time.

discogs.com says the us version was released on cd for the first time in 1990, the uk version in 91.

tipsy otm -- maybe 'noisy' isn't the right word, but the clash just used sound in such an in-your-face and confrontational way, more like public enemy than the damned. those early singles have so much going on in them, they're kind of dizzying. and there's something so harsh and cutting about the guitar sound -- 'clash city rockers' might have the same riff as 'i can't explain,' but it just sounds so much meaner and more shocking.

The story about Mick bashing in the amplifier in the studio to get the right crackle might be mythology, but it's what those songs sound like. Like they wanted more, they wanted a riot on the stereo.

discogs.com says the us version was released on cd for the first time in 1990, the uk version in 91.

It does say that, but it also lists the version I've got at the bottom with no year on it (cos there is no year on the CD or booklet I guess) and it's definitely an 80s CD. I found some forum post that seems to suggest it came out in '88 or '89.

why exactly is From Here to Eternity undervalued -- cuz my generation was unfortunate enough to get a corporation-approved live album instead of buying a bootleg (before the Internet?). Only a couple of the Terry Chimes numbers sound canned; otherwise the versions of "Complete Control," "London's Burning," "White Man...," and "What's My Name" are as ferocious -- Strummer's practically biting down on the mic -- as the studio versions.

btw before he died Strummer was pushing for Sony to let him do a sequel/companion to FHTH, released only on cassette, of his favourite picks from audience boots ppl had given him over the years

"Train in Vain" is one of the best singles ever, to my thinking. I don't even know what kind of music it is; it has sort of disco drums, I guess, and it's bubblegum, but what kind of bubblegum? The Clash had some kind of deep musicality that I've just never really figured out.

The pacing of the song with the way the lyrics appear is so tight, so dynamic.

I don't think they ever had time to figure out their musicality either. A lot of their music is hard to say what it is beyond the first two albums, because they were absorbing so much and spitting it back out so quickly.

"Train in Vain" has a rhythm that a band could only get to after they'd learned reggae well enough to not have to think about it anymore, and then layered Sun Records rockabilly over the top, along with disco guitar that they maybe picked up from Blondie? Who knows.

http://thisiheard.blogspot.com/2013/07/the-clash-train-in-vain-1979.html

I believe the US CD version came out first, to alacrity over here, and a vague promise was made by CBS/Sony that they would do the right thing at some point..

My kids got into a Jam vs Clash argument, which seemed like a fair fight to me. I looked to see if ILM had actually done this one, but was disappointed with the level of debate on the thread. it's official The Jam are 10 times better than The Clash

tipsy otm -- maybe 'noisy' isn't the right word, but the clash just used sound in such an in-your-face and confrontational way, more like public enemy than the damned. those early singles have so much going on in them, they're kind of dizzying.

Yeah one thing that always struck me about Clash records was how weirdly the songs were sometimes mixed, things like backing vocals being unexpectedly loud or little guitar parts jumping out of the mix. It's obviously prominent on Sandinista! but it was right there from the beginning I think.

Tipsy otm about the musicality too - I mean what genre is 'London Calling' as a song? It's got a reggae-ish arrangement but the rhythm is very much rock.

All over London Calling too - see eg the number of hooks that burst out of Rudie Can't Fail

Guy in Tim Hortons (50-ish, maybe a bit younger) wearing a London Calling T-shirt this morning.

Not to take anything away from the Clash--and I don't expect agreement on their poll thread--but I think there were noisier and wilder punk bands on things like the Streets compilation. I understand what Tipsy means by noisy-in-a-conventional-way, but for me, Slaughter & the Dogs' "Cranked Up Really High" is a purer distillation of that moment. The Sex Pistols, too, on "Anarchy" and "Holidays in the Sun." That doesn't make them inherently better or worse. Didn't critics--maybe because of their adeptness with reggae--tend to write about the Clash as being more musicianly than other punk bands at the time?

Yeah, was it Lester Bangs who said something early on about wanting them to slow down a little and explore their grooves? But the thing there is, they were all obviously decent players but (maybe Topper aside) they didn't start with serious chops the way that, e.g., the Police did. You can hear them learning things as they go. Paul says he really didn't know how to play his instrument until London Calling.

Paul doesn't play his instrument on the first album

(or lots of Sandinista, but he could by then)

Townshend's brief stint as their drummer didn't pan out.
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lg6rbtIqvq1qb6i1fo1_1280.jpg

xpost

That's an exaggeration, isn't it? I know Mick wrote the parts early on and I know Paul didn't play on "Magnificent Seven," but I think it's him on most of the recordings.

He didn't play on "Magnificent"!?

They had some of Ian Dury's guys in aiui, who then claimed to have written it. Certainly it's very slick.

the "bit fucking long, innit?" at 4:59 makes me lol

Norman Watt-Roy (bass player): "There was Topper, me, Micky (Gallagher) and Mick (...) Jonesy says 'We need something really funky 'cos Joe says he wants to do a rap.' So we started that riff and looped it, and Joe wrote the words there and then. Totally spontaneous, a couple of hours and it was in the can."

C. Sandanista, wasn't the band in and out of the studio at all hours in all sorts of groupings and pairings? It's like the making of Exile on Main Street. But I think Paul meant that he couldn't play his instrument well. My fave Clash story may be the tale of Joe writing in the chalkboard of the studio two columns, one that said "musicians" and other that said "not musicians" (or something like that). Mick and Topper were under the first column, Paul and Joe under the second.

Was always struck by how much more hi-fi "I Fought The Law" is compared to anything else in that early salvo of recording.

I think it was the first thing they recorded with Bill Price (along with the rest of the Cost of Living EP).

I don't think they ever had time to figure out their musicality either. A lot of their music is hard to say what it is beyond the first two albums, because they were absorbing so much and spitting it back out so quickly.

this is very well said, and kind of sums up what i love about the clash -- there's no other band like them, and not because of the 'last gang in town' mythology stuff, but because no one else SOUNDS like them.

Despite nearly two decades of the Clash being my default answer to "what's your favourite band," I had never actually listened to the UK debut in sequence until this poll came up. Its impossible for me to assess it on its own terms, I find; I miss "I Fought The Law," "White Man In Hammersmith Palais," etc too much and the four songs that were cut are no substitute (even "1977" > "Deny," "Cheat," etc). Never realized that the "White Riot" that's on here is a different version than what made the US cut, though again I prefer the latter.

Will say that, as far as opening tracks go, "Janie Jones" > "Clash City Rockers," though I'm so used to hearing JJ follow "I Fought the Law" that even that feels weird.

Paul literally couldn't play at all when he joined the band, Mick put coloured stickers on the frets as cues for him to remember lines when they started, and Mick played the bass on the first album

on Sandinista!, Paul was off making The Fabulous Stains for a large part of the sessions - I think Mick and Topper both play some bass in addition to Watt-Roy (and eventually Paul), and Micky Gallagher stuck around for most of the recording and some touring.

I knew he couldn't play at the start and Mick taught him and all that, but I've never heard he didn't play on the first album. Not that I wouldn't believe it, but I don't see anything online that suggests that. There's interviews with him about the Polydor demos that at least make it sound like he was playing on them.

dunno if this is true but the wiki entry for "Magnificent Seven" sez:
The song was recorded in April 1980 at Electric Lady Studios in New York City, built around a bass loop played by Norman Watt-Roy of the Blockheads.

Bass (song?) does sound a bit like "Reasons to be Cheerful" ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcjh1a9Yoao

I recently put in a shift with the Libertines' first album. It certainly makes hearing the first two Clash albums a strange experience - if you could meet your friends' parents as young people it might be a bit like this.

My fave Clash discovery (or realization) was when my teacher and I were going through London Calling track by track. OK, actually, two discoveries. One, Lost in the Supermarket is in open E, a pretty weird tuning or a rock song. And two. The Card Cheat is a total Phil Spector pastiche, with wall of horns, maybe multiple pianos, Be My Baby beat the whole deal. It's been there the whole time, but it never clicked as such.

Haha, so it is!

Scorsese should use it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khH7L786w6Q

My word.

And they lifted that Travis Bickle speech for "Red Angel Dragnet"

Re: Card Cheat. I remember Mick talking about how they just doubled everything on the track to get that sound, which felt very Spector-ish to me.

I had forgotten "Somebody Got Murdered" was written for Scarface.

but I've never heard he didn't play on the first album. Not that I wouldn't believe it,

I think I'm going off a memory of reading Marcus Gray in the 90s tbh, or BAD-era interviews so possibly myth-building by Mick

Okay 15 ballots in with 3 days to go. If people need extra time I can extend the deadline if I have to.

open E, a pretty weird tuning or a rock song

Not on rock songs that have a slide guitar part. It's actually fairly standard.

Super Black Market Clash is a kick, finding out that on the b-sides these guys got down with goofy songs like "1-2 Crush On You" and "Groovy Times"

I have a first cull done, and will send my ballot tomorrow.

No rush, I was just giving a heads up.

xpost But for non-slide guitar rock songs? Pretty unusual. Clash ain't the Allman Bros. Can you think of any other rock song in open E, that's not tuned that way for slide?

Be My Baby beat the whole deal

"White Riot" is a variation on the "You Can't Hurry Love" beat that quickly got picked up and reused by countless bands...

I know that comment is barely related, just something I noticed.

Norman Watt-Roy on "Magnificent Seven" makes sense, had always wondered about that. Turns out he also played one of yr funkier bass lines on a Nick Lowe track, "Nutted by Reality."

Um, I don't hear the "You Can't Hurry Love" connection in "White Riot."

It's not a direct lift or anything, it's in the bounce of the beat.

I think I buy the noisier thing, at least in terms of pure guitar punch. The key is to listen to punk chronologically (which I've happened to be doing the past couple years for this: http://twitter.com/punkchronology).

The Clash's influence might be one of those things that was so immediate and pervasive that it's difficult to hear now, especially when it comes to seemingly basic stuff like singing about class oppression, or playing distorted guitar on the reggae offbeats. There was definitely a lot of Jamaican influence in rock before the Clash, but nothing like "Police and Thieves," which really launched a genre.

Were they the first to punkify a known reggae song?

On record, for sure.

Or even something as basic as codifying the Ramones as THE punk template. Legs McNeil always blamed the Clash for ruining the Ramones moment, but listening backward, I hear the Clash extending it into what the Sex Pistols started, which really was a different parallel musically, bringing that sound into a social movement the Ramones couldn't have managed.

Yeah, it is interesting how the Clash were pretty much the first social punk band, vs. the glut of anti-social punks.

Voted!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_E_tuning

"... one of the most familiar examples of Open E tuning is the beginning guitar part on the song "Jumpin' Jack Flash" by The Rolling Stones as well as their distinctly earthy blues song "Prodigal Son" from the Beggars Banquet album, originally by Robert Wilkins. This tuning is also used in Guns N' Roses' "It's So Easy," The Black Crowes' "She Talks to Angels", Glen Hansard's "Say It To Me Now", Joe Walsh's "Rocky Mountain Way", Billy F. Gibbons in "Just Got Paid", and many others. Open E tuning also lends itself to easy barre-chording as heard in some of these songs."

Who knows why it's written in open E? But it's not that odd of a thing to do. When I regularly played, I would write shit in bizarre tunings just because I could.

If either Joe or Mick spent any time learning by listening to Stones records (which I'd have to think they did), they probably fucked around with a lot of open tunings.

^^Fuck yeah they did. Back when Mojo did their Top 50 Stones tracks survey, Mick Jones shared in his entry that back in the mid-70s he used to hang out outside the gates of Jagger's place in London, and one time he saw Jagger come to the window and wave a spoon at him.

Just listened to that guitar part and once again marveling at the musicianship of such a thing.

Christgau on London Calling: "Here's where they start showing off."

totally going to participate in this. unfortunately i'm not going to have much time to reassess the albums, but a blindly nostalgic approach kinda suits the relationship i have wit The Clash.

Ballot sent!

xposting Not only is E relatively uncommon in rock songs, open tunings are totally uncommon in the Clash, aren't they? I can't think of anything in open G, which is the most common Stones open tuning, and the one you'd think would be most useful for the Clash. But anyway, "Supermarket" just sticks out as the one odd tuning in the catalog, and certainly the only on that album. I wonder if they ever played it live?

Looks like they played it a bit in 1983. Can someone with better ears than me tell if they altered it to do it live here?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5uvlGOoLog

Tuning a guitar to open E isn't like solving the energy crisis. It can be done in less than a minute. Probably less than 30 seconds.

Not if you're the Clash! Or me!

I'm such a tuning loser.

If the US Festival show is any indication, Joe's yapping gave Mick plenty of time to retune.

Sent!

It's hard to tell if something is in an open tuning (especially E) until you hear the harmonics. Then the lightbulb goes off.

Like, I had no idea until a couple years ago that a bunch of Keef's Stones riffs were in open tunings, largely G, because I'd never really tried to learn them with any real sense of purpose. I just figured he had a knack for complex chords. Then I saw a thing on youtube about Stones riffs and it all made sense.

I bet there's a lot of BAD/BADII/Big Audio stuff that Mick plays that's in open tunings. The opening chords of "The Bottom Line" just don't sound like they're played in standard tuning.

Opening tuning, G, E ... how can you guys tell?

oh! nm

Ha, the easiest way to tell is when you try to play something and you can't figure it out, or it sounds wrong, and then someone tells you it's in an alternate tuning. See also: capos.

Thank goodness, it sounded like you were idly skipping through London Calling going "A .. G ... open E"

Keef's whole open-tuning deal was just to make the songs as easy to play as possible, right? Feel like I read something about him saying you should never need more than two fingers.

I worked it out years ago in standard tuning, E and Amaj7, adding fingers to the 4th fret to make the riff. Had no idea it was in open E.

Open G takes about 30 seconds to do, I used to know how when I played guitar but have long forgotten.

Just voted. I cannot believe the quality of songs that didn't make my ballot. The Clash were just insanely good.

Open G is a pretty easy alternate tuning. Keith didn't really start using it a lot until the late '60s, maybe 1969. But it's pretty key to a lot of his stuff from "Honky Tonk Women" on up.

Yeah, my song list after the first cut was still 120 or so. Chopping down to 30 was the hard part, then I ordered the crucial top 15 or so, then just left the rest in whatever order they happened to be in.
xp

My list of absolute essentials was at 38. This was gruelling.

The Clash were just insanely good. The Clash were just insanely good. The Clash were just insanely good. The Clash were just insanely good. The Clash were just insanely good. The Clash were just insanely good. The Clash were just insanely good. The Clash were just insanely good. The Clash were just insanely good. The Clash were just insanely good. The Clash were just insanely good. The Clash were just insanely good.

Yes.

I got it down to 32 with some brutal cuts. I feel like I'm killing my children.

Poor Sean F. Snappin!

Ballot sent. Fuck, that wasn't easy. First draft of my ballot was pretty much their entire output (minus CtC).

I might excise some sacred cows I know everyone will vote for.

I did a good bit of that.

Ballot sent. Only voted for one set of the original & dub versions. Ditched a whole bunch of "hits"

Okay, that's 26 ballots in so far.

Okay, I lied and picked two songs and their dub counterparts. I love dub Clash!

so a propos of this thread I heard "I fought the law" on of all things sf drivetime radio a couple days ago. clearly summoned by this thread. still had just incredible stopping power. urgency, immediacy, all that cliche stuff. but and this is what makes the clash stand out wrt the punk/noise convo upthread this incredible clarity too.

and that's sandwiched between modern brickwalled-for-radio stuff. glad I haven't sent in a ballot yet bc this track clearly needs to be higher than I had it.

Nobody forget to vote for:

Stay Free
One More Time
Washington Bullets

I voted for one of those, and another was a one of my very last cuts.

I voted for one too.

Two of them in my top ten so far, no worries.

one of those songs is my no.2

sent my ballot!

mine too

I'm slightly bummed that I'm going to be out of town for a week and will be following the rollout in snatched moments during my Chicago trip.

I Fought The Law xp - totally agree that there's a mysterious power to that track. I was iirc the first to nominate for our 20th century poll and that was one of the first things that immediately leapt to mind - which I can't explain at all, it was never more than a ditty to me at that point.

also obv the sweet percussion action on "robbing people with a - pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop - six gun" but yeah that alone doesn't explain what they drew out of that old chestnut.

They give it oomph and danger? I love the original, but it is quaint.

Washington Bullets would have made my list if we went to 40.

hope i'm not the only one voting the shit out of Give'Em Enough Rope.

Gukbe, are you sending confirmation mails?

i will be voting tonight :D

no you weren't!

xpost

I'll be doing it in the morning, promise

I'm a big believer in the Clash mythology, but I don't think Bobby Fuller is quaint. (Sorry if that's just semantic nitpicking.)

I'm slightly bummed that I'm going to be out of town for a week and will be following the rollout in snatched moments during my Chicago trip.

dude I'm still bummed that I can't even do a ballot due to travelling, let alone follow any of the rollout

disco poll is going to be worse though

Bobby Fuller isn't quaint, per se. But the Clash version takes that song and pretty much owns it.

This is practically (for obvious reasons) Buddy Holly:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPXnoLAEUSQ

Of course, Buddy Holly is one of the few acts I may love more than the Clash. Quaint ain't the same thing as bad!

Gukbe, are you sending confirmation mails?

― g simmel, Monday, July 8, 2013 10:19 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

I was but I've been slacking. i'll get on it.

btw I'm not sure when the rollout will commence. I put the deadline on a Tuesday night because of the holidays, but I loathe stopping a rollout on a weekend. I guess it'll come down to how fast I can tabulate the results, which I won't be able to get to until Wednesday afternoon (US Time).

They pretty much OWN "Police on My Back" as well!

Sent!

notable that when the Mescaleroes started, Joe was playing a huge amount of Clash songs and solo material in their sets -- but within a couple of years, he'd quietly dropped all Strummer/Jones originals and was only playing Mescaleroes stuff and covers that the Clash had done

I want to say when I saw Strummer tour in I think 2001, he really only played a couple, like "London Calling" and "White Man in Hammersmith," Then at the end, he had the audience vote which one they wanted to hear a second time.

so glad I have until tomorrow, I have a bunch of songs but no real order yet

They own all their covers in a way, but the Equals' "Police on My Back" is a thing of unsurpassed beauty.

JiC - the show I saw had four encores and ended up with him doing a 1989 solo b-side acapella because they'd ran out of songs the band knew. But that was January 2000 and the band only existed from 1999-2002!

<3 Bobby Fuller's drummer, hunched over on the bottom bunk. He does the pop pop pop pop pop pop as well.

Guys, this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxcYa_6_HM8

It's a lot of things, quaint it aint!

Voted. No sensible way to separate anything after about no.15 tbh. Normally that means the band have run out of gas - but not The Clash, they have so much good stuff.

Any failure by this poll to place Rudie Can't Fail in the top 10 will erode my faith in humanity.

Need someone for a savior?

First I'll have to cure my temper.

voted!

Any failure by this poll to place Rudie Can't Fail in the top 10 will erode my faith in humanity.

― something of an astrological coup (tipsy mothra), Tuesday, 9 July 2013

cf Death or Glory imo. expect it'll tank in this poll due to antirockist bias but to my ear it's nothing short of a complete musical and spiritual triumph and kinda encapsulates everything i love about the band. it rocks, it rags, it rages and it's wise enough not to exclude itself from criticism. catalogs tyrannies of class and commerce on its way to a long hard look in the mirror at the subtle tyranny of narrative and the personal cost of punk mythmaking.

man... the bridge alone is better than a lot of bands ever get. gonna raise trouble, gonna raise hell, gonna fight you brother, gonna fight til you lose.

I really want to poll Overpowered By Funk vs The Crunge

I really want I'm Not Down to be the big sleeper LC hit, but fear it'll be getting overlooked instead

xpost i'm on a roll here hell just the intro even i mean come on. like muscles rippling under a tiger's skin, set to explode at any moment...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwzMuuGOsVI

can't hear that second verse anymore without thinking of c0bian tbqh

I think the idea is to not give away too much of what we voted for til the results start rolling out, but I will say that I had 11 LC tracks on my ballot.

Me too! Pretty certain that comfortably outscores any other album in any of my previous ballots.

though Sandinista! did pretty well too

I really tried to rein in the LC love too, but I know I was lying to myself. I also tried to excise some of their singles, 'til I realised that was just being stupid.

I tried to not let Sandinista dominate my ballot

My album breakdown (at least as I define "album")

The Clash (US): 6
Rope: 3
Black Market: 2
London: 9
Sandinista: 4
Combat: 4
Crap: 1
Non-album: 1

This ballot was surprisingly easy for me because I had 20-some tracks that were just absolutely going to be on there, no question. So I only really had to make hard calls about 7 or 8 (out of 40-plus more that were serious contenders).

Yeah, I'm not even sure I could hazard a stab at this.

Hazard it!

Deadline is today? No way.

You're kidding me Josh, you've got to do this. You're only like 3% of the electorate at this point anyway.

Well you really have until tomorrow afternoon.

You don't have to think about it too hard. The Clash is a feeling, man.

I feel like voting for everything except two or three tracks.

Oh, I can do it later, I guess.

I left "Train in Vain" off and feel no regrets.

I'll go to bat for Death Or Glory. I'm a sucker for anthems. It's their Born To Run for me.

On that note, I think they played the song all of maybe 5 times? How did that happen? It was pretty great each time, too. It seems like a bizarre setlist omission to me, to not play Death Or Glory and let Paul Simonon stagger through increasingly painful versions of Guns Of Brixton.

Well, it's *his* song, innit?

Then again, Topper never sang his one, did he? (Ivan/GI Joe)

Also, I wanna put Three Card Trick on my top 30, based on this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1gWBPRXGJ0

Don't think I can though because the studio version isn't even in the same ballpark. To this day I'm amazed at Cut The Crap. I like most of the songs better than Combat Rock, but then they just systematically ruined everything in ways I didn't even think were possible. Guitar tone ruined, solid drummer replaced with drum machine, 1985 keyboards all over the place. Great songs deleted and replaced with last-minute songs that barely qualify as music. Pitch-shifted vocals for no reason. How does Jericho and In The Pouring Rain not make that album and Play To Win does? It boggles the mind.

Topper sings "Ivan Meets GI Joe" on that Amsterdam 81 show I was raving about upthread. It's a really strong performance actually.

Probably because they couldn't't be made to fit the blueprint..

I do have a Clash2 boot it's pretty great

xpost wtyg

I got given redund notice at one place of work, and accidentally on my last 2 days I got given unfettered internet, like really fast broadband when I find't have it at home. I downloaded tons from The Clash Zone, fully expecting that it would't be there long (I was right, it's long gone now)

I've got my good speakers on tonight and hearing unexpected really low vocal parts on I'm Not Down and Guns Of Brixton, almost like growls and barks. They're new to me anyway. With that and the weird mixing that brings out all these hidden hooks (as noted upthread), LC's production is impeccable.

A friend of mine saw Clash2, and had seen Clash1 w/ Chimes in '82. He said both shows were equally great, and even gave a slight edge to Clash2 (for the drumming). When he heard CtC he was profoundly baffled and disappointed; nothing in the Clash2 show indicated a new album would be anything but great.

Clash 2 was a joy for awhile. They sounded great with two guitarists--sounded like a return to Give 'Em Enough Rope, which is my favorite Clash album. They even fixed some songs that Clash 1 couldn't pull off. Even Guns of Brixton sounded pretty damn good. Extremely tight and energetic. It's too bad they didn't make a record (who even plays on CTC? I think Vince White, Paul Simonon and Pete Howard are all AWOL).

My only criticism of Clash 2 as a touring unit is that for awhile they tried to do Mick's songs with one of the new guitarists and let Paul Simonon sing Police On My Back and What's My Name, which teetered on horrific.

Is Bee OK reading this thread? Could Bee OK e-mail the poll because I *DON'T* have an embarrassingly stupid question about calculating results no no I don't.

cf Death or Glory imo. expect it'll tank in this poll

That would be a shame, as it's one of the greatest songs of all time.

In addition, everyone should double check their ballots to ensure that Hateful is near the top.

39 ballots

Almost done with mine.

starting mine now!

40+ is going to produce a good set of results, esp with 30- track ballots.

Is Bee OK reading this thread? Could Bee OK e-mail the poll because I *DON'T* have an embarrassingly stupid question about calculating results no no I don't.

yes i am. what do you need?

are you looking for this?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Alm9ijj_zohtdDhKV1NraFUtWXptd25nbEZ0cGxYeXc#gid=0

Ah. I was just wondering how you divvied up the points starting at 50 as you did in the New Order poll.

voted!

also sidenote: I really hate the US version of the s/t

track organization is bollocks. BOLLOCKS I say. Not opening that album with Janie Jones is the stupidest thing I have ever heard of.

wish I had voted for more Give Em Enough Rope but I didn't want to pore over it too much. Go with me gut, that's the Clash way

oh...this is how i did it

Usual scoring method (1:50, 2:46, 3:43, 4:40…) will be applied.

I like about half of GEER, but as its the half that is made up of the singles/most frequently anthologized tracks, I never find any need to listen to the record itself.

(sigh) Sent.

sorry, i should have emailed you.

looking forward to these results Gukbe!

also sidenote: I really hate the US version of the s/t

track organization is bollocks. BOLLOCKS I say. Not opening that album with Janie Jones is the stupidest thing I have ever heard of.

― set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, July 9, 2013 9:47 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I'd been listening to this for about five years before I knew it was different from the UK version, much less that it was recorded over a 2-year period. Because the first song was "Clash City Rockers," and because it sounded like "I Can't Explain," I instantly became a Clash fan for life. The UK version, great as it is, always sounded lacking by comparison.

It's like the US Beatles records: I'll take The Beatles' Second Album over With The Beatles in a heartbeat.

wtf tarfumes I thought we were friends

D:

haha :)

I love the UK version, but any record with "Complete Control" is better than any record without it.

^^^

How I break it down to an extent.

uhh, first the raiders, now this, vg. :)

Delving further into my love for the US s/t, I remember really clearly my dad bringing that album home from the local library in I guess probably 1979 or '80. The first thing there is the improbability of that album being at our local library, which was a dusty small-town place in remote Finger Lakes New York. Dad was a '60s rock guy, straight-up Dylan/Beatles/Stones, but he wascurious enough about the whole punk thing to get this record out of the library. I was 10 years old and just completely fascinated by the album. I already knew the Bobby Fuller version of "I Fought the Law," but I loved how much faster and noisier the Clash version was. The rest of the album just sounded like fast noise to me, but fast noise is pretty appealing to a 10-year-old. I spent a while listening to it and looking at the picture of policemen on the back running to some kind of emergency that was obviously created by the scary/cool guys on the front. Then the album went back to the library, and it was probably four years or so before I got back around to buying my own copy. I made a cassette dub of it, and I listened to it on the school bus, sometimes every day for days at a stretch. I had all the other albums too, and loved them, but that particular collection of songs and sounds has always felt like something personal to me. It planted some ideas for me that I think opened up a whole lot of things. And song for song, I'd put it up against anything.

us version was the first lp i ever bought (on cassette)!

catalogs tyrannies of class and commerce on its way to a long hard look in the mirror at the subtle tyranny of narrative and the personal cost of punk mythmaking.

So well put. I take the uplift outro to mean "Don't mythologize, organize," but the song seems almost stranded with those hopeless dads and bands until Strummer adds his political version of "won't you give me a smile?" and then let's it build into something more. The Clash made optimism seem tough.

"Clash City Rockers" is the only song appended to the U.S. version that pales besides the others. As for the britishes version, I don't "Protex Blue" or "Deny" tbh.

Man, the piano on "Clash City Rockers" alone ... I just love that song.

Also one of Joe's greatest vocals, pure snarl.

tipsy's story reminds me of the whole year of high school I spent with the only thing in my walkman being a cassette dub of the US s/t on one side and Too Much Joy's ...finally on the other.

Love these dudes.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2013/may/23/the-clash-mick-jones-paul-simonon

Great piece, but I found this part weirdly infuriating:

At least you managed to repair your friendships quickly after Mick was sacked.

MJ: Oh, very soon. That was the amazing thing. There was only a short time when we weren't really talking to each other.

PS: When me and Joe came and got involved in your video [for the 1985 single The Medicine Show by Jones's post-Clash group Big Audio Dynamite], in some ways that was a visual statement saying: "We're friends. We're OK."

THEN DO A FUCKING CLASH RECORD! YOU'RE RIGHT THERE! THE CLASH! DO MORE CLASH!

I don't know, it sounds like they needed to get out of the band to not hate each other.

I think it's interesting how the big rift seems to have been Paul-Mick more than Joe-Mick. It's like if George had broken up the Beatles.

What up?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdEt9EuDQhE

tarfumes/tipsy mothra otm re clash city rockers feel so bad for alfred and vg had no idea they were so broken inside ;_;

>:(

spare me yr pity

irl lol :D

just sent mine.

i am kinda flummoxed by the idea that 'janie jones' is a better song than 'clash city rockers,' or that CCR is a bad song at all!

When I first got into The Clash the one song that bothered me was "Clash City Rockers". Struck me as corny to use your name in a song name. I have since come around though.

there is something slightly monkees-esque about that, i'll admit.

wtf? Janie Jones should win this

What's the over under on number of fights that will happen in the rollout thread?

Realising I didn't really ask if we should count "Capital Radio" and "Capital Radio Two" as the same song. I would say "no", but I realise I didn't set out any parameters for it when I started.

No-one has mentioned Safe European Home, probably the greatest album opener ever by anyone. Make sure you don't forget it folks.

don't worry, it is unforgettable

xxxxxp I'm Not Down was the only London Calling track on my ballot (apart from Train In Vain which is top 5 forever)

Johnny Fever, surely you mean clashes?

There will be gobbing. Watch your screens.

I'm also down with I'm Not Down. Am already regretting things that fell off the bottom of my ballot, like Death or Glory, Pressure Drop (I know, insane, isn't it?), Gates of the West

I voted for two songs with "Clash" in the title. Their mythmaking seems more cheeky than corny to me.

"Safe European Home" is one of my faves, musically and lyrically. Hard to imagine anyone else making a balls-out self-deprecating anthem about white liberal racial anxiety. And that song makes the best use of Pearlman, or vice-versa -- it sounds like it was shot out of a cannon.

Love that song, was high in my ballot.

Didn't vote "Pressure Drop" because it's the rare Clash cover that I don't think bests the original. They got to remake it again in a Clash stylie as "Revolution Rock."

"Safe European Home" is very high on my ballot; that''s all I say.

i am kinda flummoxed by the idea that 'janie jones' is a better song than 'clash city rockers,' or that CCR is a bad song at all!

― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.),

not once did I say it was a bad song! I said it was my least favorite of the added songs.

Yeah, really, there are only a spare handful of Clash songs one could argue are actually bad, and most of them are goofs.

...or that CCR is a bad song at all!

― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.)

Disorienting acronym.

Immediately imagined Fogerty singing it ("boin down the suburbs with the half closed eyes")

thinking about the Clash-named songs as being like the Monkees makes me happier with Clash mythology. unlike the Stones & their "greatest rock & roll band in the world" (cf. http://ethanrussell.com/americanstory/?p=407) I've never picked up on any tounge-in-cheek-ness re. the bullshit of that mythology on the band's part...but I also haven't read deeply on the band or maybe even listened close enough.

love the clash but let's not pretend they weren't deeply corny or awash in bullshit mythology, there's a reason this happened: http://youtu.be/5tjAQSxWdhM?t=3m20s

When I first got into The Clash the one song that bothered me was "Clash City Rockers". Struck me as corny to use your name in a song name. I have since come around though.

― Gukbe, Wednesday, July 10, 2013 2:49 AM (7 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

there is something slightly monkees-esque about that, i'll admit.

― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, July 10, 2013 2:50 AM (7 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

The first song on Black Sabbath's first album is called "Black Sabbath" wtf is wrong with you people

kinda 'eh' on 'clash city rockers' but having the name of yr band in the title of yr most who-like song is just good form i think

They had their whole sense of mission and purpose and whatever, but it always had a goofy, cartoony side. For every Lorca namedrop there's Lauren Bacall in a car jam.

And "Clash City Rockers" itself is pretty goofy, the Bowie and Gary Glitter shout-outs and all.

I put "Clash City Rockers" in the same category many put Sandinista!: a failure that shows how great they were. It's awkward musically, lyrically insider, badly recorded, and never quite pulls its parts together. It's also awesome. I loved watching a local band kill on it this year.

"Revolution Rock" is a Danny Ray cover. The (great) original was a retooling of Jackie Edwards's "Get Up." I love the Clash instrumental version from the Vanilla Tapes and Rude Boy too.

Found this piece on Topper from a few years ago:
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/features/i-forgive-you-the-clashs-drummer-topper-headon-makes-peace-with-the-man-who-sacked-him-1717627.html

Months after being in one of the world's biggest rock'n'roll bands, Headon was living in a freezing, windowless squat in Fulham, while The Clash were performing stadium shows in the US in support of the single "Rock the Casbah", a song largely written by Headon and on which he played drums, bass and piano. He made various attempts to continue his musical career. His friendship with Pete Townshend nearly landed him the job of drumming for The Who. At the time, The Clash were supporting the British supergroup at Shea Stadium and Headon admits he would have relished playing for the headlining band, lording it over The Clash.

I love 'Clash City Rockers', best bit is the sarcastic "YEAH YEAH" before the guitar solo.

The Topper story is pretty brutal, but I love him sitting up all night with Bo Diddley, doing coke and watching porn.

I was pretty surprised to read that he didn't kick his addiction until the early 00s; I thought he'd kicked it by '99 at the very latest (as he seems to allude to in WttW).

The Who thing, though, I dunno. On the '82 tour they didn't bring their regular (heavy-drinking) keyboardist because Townshend was drying out. I can't imagine Pete, who had also just kicked heroin, would willingly/knowingly bring a heroin addict/cokehead on tour.

Jeez, that Topper piece. So many black laughs though:

By 1989, when the mini-cabbing work became too much for him, he had taken to the London Underground, busking with a set of bongos. "Every hundred people who passed, there'd be one who'd stop and ask, 'Are you Topper Headon from The Clash?'" He shrugs, "I'd have to say, 'Yeah, this is what I do now.' It was so humiliating."

:/

It was so weird to learn about his addiction/firing (which I didn't know anything about until I saw WttW), because I'd assumed that he was some kind of health/fitness nut (pretty much just based on his workout scene in Rude Boy).

I love 'Clash City Rockers', best bit is the sarcastic "YEAH YEAH" before the guitar solo.

― Gavin, Leeds, Wednesday, July 10, 2013 10:10 AM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Such a Mott The Hoople* moment...

*Who also certainly taught Strummer & co. a thing or two about self-mythologizing.

Jones was big on Mott if i recall correctly

hell, everyone should be big on Mott

otm

GODDAMMIT I FORGOT TO VOTE FOR LISTEN. Entire poll is therefore invalid.

re: mott/clash connection

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Stevens

Guy Stevens produced Brain Capers which is essential listening for ny Mott fan.

love the clash but let's not pretend they weren't deeply corny or awash in bullshit mythology

Well, what are we talking about here? The politics? Because if the politics fail, that's one thing, but I don't blame the mythology.

Ok everyone. Because of some extra work stuff + impromptu family/friends visiting over the next few days, I don't think I can roll out the results in a way that would be Britisher-time-friendly, so I propose I wait until Monday. I've got the results, and I'm pretty sure that anyone who wanted to vote in this has already voted (42 ballots!), but I'm fine with leaving it open for stragglers until Friday night, unless anyone has objections and would feel aggrieved that they rushed their ballot because of the Tuesday night deadline.

If any of that seriously fucks anyone off, then I can try to alter it and maybe roll it out quickly this week.

I'm fine with waiting, I had a six-hour Clash frenzy last night so a few days away is maybe a decent idea

Cool with me, too

Monday's cool.

NO RIGHT NOW!

Bummed, but will watch recent videos of Topper playing well and looking healthy to cheer myself up. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEG_B4iBmvI

WHEN THEY HOLD UP YOUR CLASH POLL, HOW YOU GONNA COME?

You grow up and you calm down, and you start putting off Clash polls til next week.

tbqh i had no idea there was any notion rollout would start before monday but any excuse for a riot imo

it's proven by research, that he that delays rollouts will later .. Um, oh bol

bobby said he'd roll out no wait that's the springsteen poll

I'm so bored with the poll delay
I'm so bored with the poll delay
But what can I do?

they just systematically ruined everything in ways I didn't even think were possible.

(who even plays on CTC? I think Vince White, Paul Simonon and Pete Howard are all AWOL).

as I said upthread, it was made by Bernie from Joe demos after Joe walked. Norman Watt-Roy was brought in to do basslines.

Well I've been waiting for your Clash Poll/The one that never came/like a man about to burst/I was dying of thirst

I was pretty surprised to read that he didn't kick his addiction until the early 00s; I thought he'd kicked it by '99 at the very latest (as he seems to allude to in WttW).

Mick and Joe paid for him to rehab at least twice in the 90s, and I'm sure there were times when he was clean to his mind at that moment

Topper talks about this fairly touchingly in the Viva Joe Strummer doc -- the last time he saw Joe he was off heroin but still drinking, and Joe asked what was in his cup and it was beer "and my one regret today is that I couldn't honestly say Coke or water or something."

Voting has now officially ended. Countdown begins Monday. Top 60.

WOOOOOO

(Hands up for Hollywood)

HOORAY!

yay

can't wait for this

weeeeeeeeeee

This is a CLASH POLL service announcement...WITH RESULTS!!!!!! ILX Artist Poll #41