Nu-Metal re-assesed?

It will never be time IMO (deftones/soad excepted) but maybe others will disagree?
Its funny to think really that Nu-Metal is actually the UK's fault as it was kerrang who hyped up that first Korn album as "nu-metal" and the music was much more popular here than in the USA for the 1st few years despite the fact all the bands were 'merican . I still blame Max Cavalera for giving it cred that helped it initially and of course Ozzfest made those bands mainstream worldwide. It was dire times though really, wasn't it?

Anyone care to defend it since Limp Bizkit and Coal Chamber are still playing festivals now?

Grunge would probably have been a more analogous genre to pair with britpop than nu-metal, imo. But I'd love to see who drops in here to stan for nu-metal.

I'm still staggered by how much it sold in the UK. Rawk/Metal never really sold that much here really then this stuff went genuine mainstream with #1 singles and outsold Nirvana,Pearl Jam etc and tons of 8 and 9 year olds were into it in a way grunge hadn't connected. Why????

I still have more than enough time for System Of A Down, the first two albums especially seem to have held up very well and I'd place them both as being up there with the best of the genre. However, on the other hand, you've got dreck like Chocolate Starfish & The Hot Dog Flavoured Water which is just fucking all kinds of terrible.

jf i was thinking of making it post-grunge but that shit didn't really do anything in the UK so I thought id go with nu-metal as it was a world-wide phenomenon but feel free to discuss nickelback, Creed and co in here too.

NOBODY will stan for Nickelback or Creed, right?

Reevaluating Nu-Metal (Or: Top 100 Nu-Metal Songs)

Still sucks.

is miccio still around?

I'm still staggered by how much it sold in the UK. Rawk/Metal never really sold that much here really then this stuff went genuine mainstream with #1 singles and outsold Nirvana,Pearl Jam etc and tons of 8 and 9 year olds were into it in a way grunge hadn't connected. Why????

― Algerian Goalkeeper, Saturday, June 29, 2013 1:23 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

You've got me thinking about this now. If I remember, the earlier nu-metal stuff such as Korn's first two albums, the early Deftones stuff and the first System Of A Down album did have a bit of a cult following here. I'm trying to pin-point a specific event which led to people going absolutely nuts for nu-metal here, and the conclusion I've reached is the moment when Slipknot performed 'Wait In Bleed' on TFI Friday, and I suspect it was the image of the band and the mystery of the masks and boiler-suits as well as the myths they created in interviews and suchlike that had kids enthralled as much as the music. I seem to remember Slipknot being the starting point of the BIG popularity.

it was also all over modern rock radio. Slipknot did have a lot to do with it, but I think Limp Bizkit were the band that also stirred up a lot of fans.

once modern radio jumped on board, the copycats were in play and we got treated to such choice acts as Full Devil Jacket, Skrape, Throe, and that Vanilla Ice "Bipolar" side project.

xpost:

And of course through getting into that self-titled Slipknot album, they went back and discovered the other bands: Korn (I was 16 at the time, and I remember loads of people the same age as me wearing Korn hoodies with the Issues album sleeve on, which was their most recent album at that point), System Of A Down, Deftones... shitloads of smaller bands started appearing. Some even went back and discovered grunge stuff they'd missed out on the first time around. I remember Rage Against The Machine and the Red Hot Chili Peppers getting a huge boost in popularity around this time too, even though they had fuck-all to do with nu-metal.

i stand by my 2001 assessment:

http://www.villagevoice.com/2001-08-21/music/heard-it-on-the-x/

Limp Bizkit and Linkin Park were the ones who took it truly mainstream here but Slipknot hoodies were huge amongst pre-teens after that it was really really bizarre.

I remember being in #metal on DALnet and there were vicious multilingual flame wars going on whenever anybody even mentioned Slipknot. At one point the metalheads running the channel (most of whom were Swedish) got so pissed off at nu-metal they basically coded a script that kick-banned people who even mentioned the names "Slipknot", "Korn" or any other band of the moment. Even if you said "Limp Bizkit sucks", as they weren't that good at programming.

the rapping really disappeared from nu-metal quite quickly didn't it?

idk I mean I think a lot of people referred to staccato barking as "rapping", but I think there were less bands that actually had a real facsimile of rapping in the group other than maybe hed P.E. (who weren't metal or nu-metal), Kottonmouth Kings (ick), the Durstards, and a handful of others.

and then there was Candiria, who had hip-hop influences but weren't nu-metal. anybody remember them?

I seem to remember the whole pop-punk thing increasing in popularity here as well, alongside nu-metal. It would take until American Idiot until Green Day got REALLY big here, but I remember even around the time of Warning they seemed to be more popular here than they ever were circa Dookie or Insomniac. Blink-182 put out Enema Of The State, as well. I hated that band. The next thing that comes to mind is stuff like Sum 41, New Found Glory etc. It just seemed to me that it wasn't JUST nu-metal that was popular in the UK at that time, it was American pop-punk and American rock in general.

remember the female vanilla ice who jumped on the nu-metal bandwagon aka Tairrie B? lol

Offspring got a #1 UK single here too around then (Pretty Fly For A White Guy)

Dookie was massive here but then they faded away a bit til American Idiot.

Limp Bizkit and Linkin Park were the ones who took it truly mainstream here but Slipknot hoodies were huge amongst pre-teens after that it was really really bizarre.

― Algerian Goalkeeper, Saturday, June 29, 2013 1:37 AM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Oh yeah, Linkin Park's Hybrid Theory and Limp Bizkit's Chocolate Starfish were both HUGE... but I seem to remember shitloads of people being into Korn and Slipknot WELL before either of those records came out. Maybe Hybrid Theory/Chocolate Starfish were the commercial pinnacles of the genre. Sadly.

xxxpost yep, the pop-punk thing definitely took off around the same time. Shit like Good Charlotte, The Ataris, all got popular. I honestly hated that more than nu-metal because it was all so generic and wooden (not that nu-metal wasn't, but I felt like it at least had more variety).

The funny thing to me is that obviously metalcore is now the subgenre of the moment to tick off "true" metalheads, but while they do have a stick up their ass about this genre, they dont' seem to hate it anywhere near as much as they did nu-metal. Probably because of there being better musicianship and being a closer facsimile of the genre, even if 75% of the bands at Rockstar Mayhem Fest still suck.

Nu-metal, though, inspired seizure-inducing rage.

Oh yeah, Linkin Park's Hybrid Theory and Limp Bizkit's Chocolate Starfish were both HUGE... but I seem to remember shitloads of people being into Korn and Slipknot WELL before either of those records came out. Maybe Hybrid Theory/Chocolate Starfish were the commercial pinnacles of the genre. Sadly.

― I wanna live like C'MOWN! people (Turrican), Friday, June 28, 2013 9:44 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I was into Korn the year their s/t came out. I had a dubbed tape copy of it. However I jumped ship on "Follow the Leader" as I didn't like the poppier direction they were going on and Jon using his nasal singing voice more often. I feel like what I liked about Korn's s/t at the time (and even now, to an extent) isn't what much of the nu-metal that followed brought to the table.

Marilyn Manson were really popular for a while too they kind of linked a whole bunch of bands along with Slipknot

xpost ie Jimmy's Chicken Shack had a little 'swing', but it was like so laaaaaazy and dull.

In 1995 the 2 tshirts i saw most at gigs were Korn and Machine Head (who did a nu-metal album remember!)
and no, i wasnt at nu metal gigs. So these bands along with Coal Chamber really were popular with kerrang reading kids

forgot Coal Chamber. I had their s/t and liked it (at the time). think that was largely because I was a HS kid that had no money and my mother would have flipped if I brought home the uber-satanic albums that I'd bring home a year or two later.

The funny thing to me is that obviously metalcore is now the subgenre of the moment to tick off "true" metalheads, but while they do have a stick up their ass about this genre, they dont' seem to hate it anywhere near as much as they did nu-metal. Probably because of there being better musicianship and being a closer facsimile of the genre, even if 75% of the bands at Rockstar Mayhem Fest still suck.

Metalcore has been around for over a decade and despite having a few big bands it never hit the mainstream like nu metal or hair metal.
Deathcore is a lot newer and inspires a lot of rage too but again its not mainstream.

I'll rage about hair metal, nu-metal and ocean colour scene til im 90 I'm pretty sure!

Tairrie B (born Theresa Beth, January 18, 1965,[citation needed] Anaheim, California) is an American singer. She was originally a rapper, but later became an alternative metal vocalist.

Tairrie B started her music career as part of the female dance group Bardeux. After the release of their debut single, "Three-Time Lover", in 1987, she left the group. Under the tutelage of Eazy-E, she was later signed to his label Ruthless Records (under a new imprint called Comptown Records) and released her first album, The Power Of A Woman, which, unlike usual Ruthless fare, was distributed by MCA Records.[1] Tairrie B claimed she was assaulted by Dr. Dre at the 1990 Grammy Awards for not collaborating with him on her first album:

"Everyone with NWA - like Above The Law and The D.O.C. - whenever they do an album, all of the guys appear on the last track. So they were going to do that with me at one point and Ice Cube was gonna write lyrics to a track called 'I Ain't Your Bitch'."[citation needed]

She refused, and rewrote the track as a diatribe against her labelmates. When Dr. Dre heard the track, he turned up at the awards ceremony party, where he punched Tairrie "twice - once in the mouth and once in the eye. He hit me like Tyson, but I took it - I don't know how."[2]

It turned out to be the only Comptown Records album release. Tairrie B later began working on her second full length album 'Single White Female', but before releasing it decided to change her musical direction away from rap. After being released from her contract by Eazy-E, just a few weeks before his 1995 death, she then formed Manhole (later renamed Tura Satana), My Ruin and LVRS.

In December 2008, Tairrie B married her long-time partner and guitarist of My Ruin Mick Murphy. She stated in the band's Myspace blog that she had changed her last name to Murphy, but would continue to use the name Tairrie B in music.

i still think slipknot are impressive. i've watched latter-day live shows on youtube and i give them credit for their vision. they've been doing it for a long time now and they do genuinely drive their fans insane. i don't know if anyone would have thought that they could still be packing them in at this late date.

Who remembers this from 1995?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gjb7UD7jPqM

I do, though at the time I didn't know it was Sugar Ray. horrible tune. lol that McG produced the video.

While we're on the topic of heavy music in Britain in the 1990s, can someone tell me what corner Skunk Anansie crawled out of? And how are they regarded there?

Digging into my memory banks here, I think Slipknot's Iowa and System Of A Down's Toxicity were released roughly around the same time. I recall Toxicity being VERY well-received (and deservedly so) and Iowa being quite coolly received. At this point, I remember System Of A Down suddenly becoming bigger than ever (on the back of Toxicity and 'Chop Suey!'), where Slipknot kinda faded into the background a bit. All those kids that were huge Slipknot fans around the time of the self-titled record just suddenly gave up on them. Also, by the time Slipknot put out Iowa, there were suddenly a huge proliferation of really shit smaller bands. I mean, music TV was just saturated with a lot of it. I'm thinking Papa Roach, and fucking Godhead doing 'Eleanor Rigby', Kittie and that really awful band Sugarcoma with the embarrassing 'What Goes Round'.

All throughout this time, Korn were keeping quiet working on Untouchables, and by the time Untouchables came out it seemed that nu-metal's popularity was just beginning to end. That's the strangest thing: Issues came out before the self-titled Slipknot record, but by the time the follow-up came out, the popularity seemed to be dying off.

Ah yeah, I almost forgot... Tool put out Lateralus, which was quite successful... and I think with Midian, Cradle Of Filth seemed to be the biggest that they'd ever been or would ever get.

I was the target audience for the stuff at the time and I despised most of it then and still despise most of it now.

Skunk Anansie got a lot of positive press from nme/melody maker as much as raw/kerrang but i'd imagine they're thought of as a joke now. People really loved Skin's vox tho. I saw them at t in the park 95 and she was the only good thing about them. I think a lot of indie people had hoped she would have made a "Ruby" type album (Lesley Rankine from Silverfish)

I always viewed Sevendust as the biggest waste, with a dude as talented as Lajon Witherspoon on vocals, backed by awkward background "shout" vocals, limp riffs, and barely there songs. although I did like their album Animosity as I felt like they actually bothered to write tunes on it. and of course "Black" is all time. never ever wrote a song as good as that one again.

Skunk Anansie toured the usa with Slipknot before the 1st Slipknot album came out. It was Skin who was the first i ever heard talking about them (friday rock show) could never have predicted how big they would become.

Oh, I'm familiar with the Ruby album. It was basically a straight rip of Hope Nicholls' Sugarsmack albums (her label people admitted as much).

Both Ruby and Skunk Anansie played the main stage of Phoenix Festival '96, iirc.

I liked the Ruby album (and Silverfish)

xpost:

as did Foo Fighters and Terrorvision, funnily enough.

Foo Fighters just kept getting bigger and bigger as they got shitter and shitter! Still love the 1st 2 but fuck the rest.

btw someone explain Nickelback not being a one-hit wonder?

I like about the same number of songs on each Foo Fighters album (usually between 2 and 4), so I've not noticed any considerable drop off.

Nickelback is shameful and unexplainable.

They think that Chad Kroeger looks like a cute cowardly lion? I dunno, man! It's a mystery I've always wanted to get to the bottom of.

Canada has more than a few decent artists, but the only ones they export in recent years are the worst ones: Nickelback, Avril Lavigne, um...Seth Rogen.

you know who was another curious and 'never really exploded' type band that still had a few singles on modern rock radio in the 90s was The Hunger.

nothing great, but considering the alternatives, listenable.

and then there's Rob Halford's Two....ehm...moving on.

I liked that "I Am a Pig" song.

was that his "industrial" album?
xp

dunno the hunger

i recall stuck mojo tho...

hey turrican remember Apes, Pigs and Spacemen? lolol

Stuck Mojo, ugh. I bought "Rising" not realizing that every song was some inane extreme-far right political masturbation fest. Had the message been lower in the mix and the music been more than just "ok, I coulda dealt with it.

I still have it somewhere, buried at the bottom of a box.

far right???

wow, speaking of Halford, Fight's "WAr of Words" is only 3.99 new on Amazon. THREAD DELIVERS.

"Crooked Figurehead" is an Anti-Clinton song, "Throw the Switch" is a pro-death penalty song....and those are just the two I remember. supposedly they used to lead "Fuck Bill Clinton" chants at concerts too.

and their liner notes on Rising had pro-gun propaganda warning citizens to arm themselves as criminals will fear citizens with guns.

I was the target audience for the stuff at the time and I despised most of it then and still despise most of it now loved it. I think very little of it still holds up (it spoke very directly to 16yo angst, not so much to 29yo angst), but I'll still occasionally listen to a linkin park track, disturbed, even staind, drowning pool, incubus, korn etc

btw guys why did you send us Fun Loving Criminals? They went down well with the britpop & nu-metal crowd WHY????????????????

I heard "In The End" the other day and it sounded way more terrible than I remembered.

I like earlier funky FNM homage Incubus, not as much the "Pardon Me" era.

Fun Loving Criminals aka "Scooby Snacks"? ugh.

the late 90s was utterly, utterly, utterly, utterly awful

The early 90s in comparison looks like the greatest period in modern music

One song I did like at the time was "Mope" by the Bloodhound Gang, but I'm not quite sure if that really falls under the category of Nu-Metal.

heh funny thing about Linkin Park is that I outright HATED them in college, and even though I still don't like them, some of their tunes have grown on me. i.e., "Breaking the Habit" is insanely catchy.

TBH, I think it was Mike Shinoda I hated more than anything. Could they have found a blander MC to rap on their tracks?

remember Econoline Crush?

Im sorry but I have to admit, I was 16/17 at the time, already past the Sonic Youth/Pixies/indie rock thing, and it was so easy to sneer at this stuff, but on the other hand they made it incredibly easy to do so, so fuck em

hey turrican remember Apes, Pigs and Spacemen? lolol

― Algerian Goalkeeper, Saturday, June 29, 2013 2:20 AM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Well, I'd forgotten about them until YOU MENTIONED THEM! Jesus fuckin' christ.

hahahahahaha

our local music scene has never really had any big names, but when nu-metal took off, those bands sprouted up all over town and I went to a show one night where three of these bands were playing. One was ...I forget, the other Grumpy (who looked like Slayer, but played music like Papa Roach), and the last was this complete RATM ape-job who were sponsored by Puma called "Deroot".

About 2 minutes into Grumpy's set, it was plain obvious that they were lip-synching, as the vocalist wasn't mouthing in time, and often wasn't even in front of the microphone (he was too focused on the riffs he was playing...if he was really playing them).

Then Deroot gets up and starts playing their lame shit, and by the last song, the guitarist was fed up with his guitar, and flung it across the stage. Problem was, the guitar riff was still audible over the loudspeaker, and nobody else had a guitar on stage. so apparently they were playing over pre-recorded tracks.

felt like nu-metal inspired so many lazy bands that just figured anybody could do it, so much so that these hard working 'local acts' couldn't even be arsed to actually play their damn music!

remember Clawfinger? they actually pre-dated nu metal by a few years

Always on euro MTV (the days before MTV UK)

TBH, I think it was Mike Shinoda I hated more than anything. Could they have found a blander MC to rap on their tracks?

― Neanderthal, Saturday, June 29, 2013 2:28 AM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I didn't find this half as offensive as much as other aspects of the band. I remember reading the sleevenotes to Hybrid Theory at a friends house and thinking "for fucks sake, these feel more like a fucking corporation than a band". I just found them incredibly insincere. Packaged angst product. Y'know... "PARENTS! I FUCKING HATE YOU! But here's your name in the thank you part of the liner notes alongside our sponsors".

Well yeah, that's what I hated about most all nu-metal, though; the faux anger, and the lazy means of expressing it. Maybe I just give them somewhat of a pass as I feel like a lot of 90s post-thrash was guilty of the same thing.

There was a couple of UK nu-metal bands but I've completely forgotten their names. Pretty sure one was welsh

I was genuinely surprised how good of a vocalist Chester Bennington was, though. He guested on a Young Buck track of all places ("Slow Ya Roll") and he actually had a pretty amazing voice on the track as he didn't sing in his normal Linkin Park snarl.

some metalheads stanned for Mudvayne. I liked one song, I think, but never was really into them.

ugh

the world really needed a slipknot clone NOT

weren't really nu-metal per se but I'd stan for Stabbing Westward's Whither Blister Burn and Peel, as unoriginal as it was.

Well yeah, that's what I hated about most all nu-metal, though; the faux anger, and the lazy means of expressing it. Maybe I just give them somewhat of a pass as I feel like a lot of 90s post-thrash was guilty of the same thing.

― Neanderthal, Saturday, June 29, 2013 2:39 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yeah, but Linkin Park were more see-through in that regard than most, I think!

Digging into my memory banks here, I think Slipknot's Iowa and System Of A Down's Toxicity were released roughly around the same time. I recall Toxicity being VERY well-received (and deservedly so) and Iowa being quite coolly received. At this point, I remember System Of A Down suddenly becoming bigger than ever (on the back of Toxicity and 'Chop Suey!'), where Slipknot kinda faded into the background a bit. All those kids that were huge Slipknot fans around the time of the self-titled record just suddenly gave up on them.

Um...Iowa was a #1 album in the UK, #3 in the US. It went platinum ~6 weeks after release (street date 8/28, platinum certification 10/10). Toxicity was released one week later, also hit #1 in the US but only hit #13 in the UK. The album that was #1 in the UK the week Toxicity was released? Jamiroquai's A Funk Odyssey. Yay, England.

Also: Linkin Park's guitarists fucking headphones.

xxpost well yeah, I mean "One Step Closer" with its "shut up when I'm talking to you" is a perfect example.

I will admit that I still don't get Slipknot. I was kind of held captive into seeing them last year at Rockstar Mayhem Fest (I was driving and one of the guys in my party liked em so I didn't want to be a dick).

It wasn't horrible, I didn't want to claw my eyes out, but other than thinking some of the visuals were cool and liking some of the percussion, I got bored pretty fast.

plus I hate the lyrics to Surfacing with a passion and when I heard them again I ate three concertgoers

Um...Iowa was a #1 album in the UK, #3 in the US. It went platinum ~6 weeks after release (street date 8/28, platinum certification 10/10). Toxicity was released one week later, also hit #1 in the US but only hit #13 in the UK. The album that was #1 in the UK the week Toxicity was released? Jamiroquai's A Funk Odyssey. Yay, England.

― 誤訳侮辱, Saturday, June 29, 2013 2:43 AM (8 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I wasn't talking in those terms. More that Iowa was perceived to be a disappointment, and Toxicity wasn't.

be here now was the fastest selling oasis album but it was still seen as a disappointment

what do static-x, judas priest,bay city rollers, lostprophets have in common?

I don't know anyone who saw Iowa as a disappointment after Slipknot's debut. It was faster, heavier, more aggressive, noisier...it was a growth move in every single way. Now, Vol. 3...that album polarized people. And All Hope is Gone has the perfect title, because that's how about 50 percent of their fan base felt when they heard it.

at lot of these albums got great reviews when released of course

what do static-x, judas priest,bay city rollers, lostprophets have in common?

― Algerian Goalkeeper, Saturday, June 29, 2013 2:50 AM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I see where this is going!

what do static-x, judas priest,bay city rollers, lostprophets have in common?

― Algerian Goalkeeper, Saturday, June 29, 2013 2:50 AM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post

they all played on Pandora the night j@gger lost his virginity?

xxpost well yeah, I mean "One Step Closer" with its "shut up when I'm talking to you" is a perfect example.

― Neanderthal, Saturday, June 29, 2013 2:44 AM (21 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

A better example is the video. The video opens, they do that stupid little jiggy dance, and then Bennington sings "I cannot take this anymore" with a grin on his face. Yeah, you look pissed off mate!

I hated the "Last REsort" video for similar reasons

now that was a bad song

re-assed is right

now this was a terrible song https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-sYWaOrLdI

i've copied my spotify playlist of great nu-metal elsewhere but here it is http://open.spotify.com/user/unbornwhiskey/playlist/7DM4wgAaZRcHn0VbhEiAFC

starting a thread to shit on a subgenre is like *yawn*

just a bit of nostalgic fun for grumpy old people!
DMB threads bring together US ILXors
Britpop threads bring together UK ILXors
Nu-Metal threads bring together the whole of ilx!

the world really needed a slipknot clone NOT

i mean dude mudvayne were not a slipknot clone but whatev

I think I lost brain cells reading this thread.

we'll be sure to return both of them to you if we see them lying around

:) thanks.

Hey Neanderthal, you said you were in dalnet on #metal? Were you ever in #mp3_death?

lol YES. for a little while at least. I remember Postmortem being the dude that ran it, and a few other people. and _b0b_. and Depresy, and.....a few others.

basically taht's how I discovered Immolation.

Hey me too, wow yea I remember those names.

yeah, I was in college with a T-1 connection sucking down downloads. often times I'd snag one-two mp3s, found out I liked them, then take the bus (I lived in Tallahassee) to Vinyl Fever (r.i.p.), and pick whatever it was up, since they had a huge metal selection. usually using my financial aid or credit cards (lol stupid 19 year old).

this is why I have cds I never listen to now like Impaled Nazarene's "Nihil" and God Dethroned's "Bloody Blasphemy"

Nu-Metal seemed to be big from the start of my time at highschool to the end. Funny how even as I was 12-13 it often seemed obnoxiously immature and embarrassing, many of my friends were into it big time; although even at that age some of us were doing mocking impressions of kids who would like Linkin Park, Papa Roach and Limp Biskit.
I absolutely loathed the aesthetic and it gave me a bit of a prejudice against metal until I got over it about age 17.

These days as I explore music of the 70s and 80s, I find it interesting trying to spot the reasons why old bands and genres got a reputation for doing things they rarely if ever did at all, it seems everything prog, glam, hard rock, early metal and folk all would have seemed more blended together at the time than it does to me now that all the genres and canons have largely settled.
It was similar in highschool that you could be disparagingly referred to as a "goth" or "mosher" for liking a whole range of different bands that sometimes had so little in common.
Linkin Park, Papa Roach, Limp Biskit, Bloodhound Gang, Avril Levigne, Marilyn Manson, Slipknot, Staind/Stand, Rammstein, Alien Ant Farm, POD, Static X, Puddle Of Mud, Hell Is For Heroes, System Of A Down, HIM, Queens Of The Stone Age, Mudvayne, Deftones, Korn, Lost Prophets, Nickelback, Good Charlotte, Green Day, Blink 182, Sum 41, Machine Head, Offspring, Nine Inch Nails and many others were bafflingly treated as if they were the same thing by a lot of people; even Muse, White Stripes and even Stereophonics were lumped into the Kerrang channel and magazine.

perhaps two or three years ago, I was at someones house and they had on the Kerrang channel and they played the exact same stuff they would have played at the height of Nu-Metal. This really made me feel a bit horrible, and not only because it was music I didn't like, just the idea that some people are stuck in that era was unpleasant (even if it was great music); I still see people who dress like that with the skater shorts and the pointless chain on the belt and the hairstyles.
I don't know if there is a proper name for that feeling, but I call it "ugly nostalgia", when the memories leave a bad taste in your mouth.
Slasher films of the era were another thing that makes my memories of the time unpleasant. I really don't think there was much good in popular culture at this time, or at least the sort likely to reach a lot of highschoolers.

I have almost zero experience with Emo music, but I always got the impression it was influenced by Nu-Metal. Is this so?

not originally but certainly the 3rd wave? was? sund4r to thread!

I knew that Fall Out Boy and My Chemical Romance were big into Smiths and Cure, it seems an odd mix with Nu-Metal. Although The Cure did work with Korn's producer, Bloodflowers and the eponymous album do have something of the era.

nu metal bands loved the cure too. Lots of people with shitty taste love the cure ;)

Yeah, Chino from The Deftones and Jonathan Davis were both well-known fans of the Cure if I recall.

I wonder what that Ross Robinson Emperor album would have sounded like.

I got into Deftones and Korn at about the same time, with both of their first albums.. For me, I was very interested in exploring the rap and metal combo, but it never really seemed to mesh enough IMO. I started a band around this time and we did just that, tried to mash those two worlds so hard that it became a new thing. we had a legit MC, and I think thats what made the difference for us in '96/'97, especially here in the SF Bay Area. For us it was a way to reflect how all of our friends had a wide range of musical tastes, ad we fit the bill for a lot of people. We started seeing bands in our area that were opening for us, start sounding a little more like us, and before we knew it, those bands were getting label attention and we were getting overlooked.

IMO, there wasn't anything really heavy in the early 90s that most kids could get into. Underground music was hard to find cuz no one was online in mass quantities.

what ruined the genre was the baffoonery of Limp Bizkit and Kid Rock. But even before those guys-Coal Chamber, Stuck Mojo, Snot-there was a glossy nod to an urban mentality that was fake as fuck. Remember Downset. Those fools were the real deal, but there wasn't enough talent there-especially in the MC dept, for it to hit. When these assholes, Limp writsed and Kid Kock, started to be the standard of what it was about, it had been lost. Anyone doing anything real was then compared to that crap and it died a painful death.

there is a huge appeal for the run off/lighter side of the nu-metal thing in the Nickelback type bands, cuz they're not heavy enough that chicks won't like it. And in the midwest and the south, there is just enough twang for them to be huge there. They've created a perfect shit storm of music to appeal to a lot of the bible thumping rednecks that make up middle America.

Now there is a new look at the rap and metal combo-a re-examining, if you will.. Its still sounding forced, cuz the music doesn't sound rap enough for the MCs to sound natural, but whatevs.. Its dead, let it be dead.

Its funny.. I love the idea of a MC doing his shit over heavy music, but I fucking hate every band that ever did it.. lol!

Tom Araya did some good rapping on Hell Awaits, lol

and as far as SLipknot goes... I was never a fan, but i think most people that see them live are usually turned into fans... 9 dudes in masks going off hard on stage is pretty impressive no matter who you are..

Remember, the early 90s produced some of the best, most diverse and best selling hip hop. So heavy bands were greatly influenced by this, and would bring in any of those elements they could-DJs, samples, whatever.

I forgot Evanescence. Was that Nightwish for Nu-Metal fans? I remember Lemmy saying Evanescence were one of his favourite new bands.

this is more like post-grunge mixed with a nu-metal chorus but it will always be memorable to me for the line "they tried to fuck me from behind/because i am a cloud".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGTJv4OVJPM

dirty cloud

Scott is there a nu metal meets metal/death core band out there?

^^^ YES!! Haktavist

I remember seeing the Deftones at the first Warped Tour (95, iirc) on the second stage (they played after Sick of it All) and thinking they were a bad version of Quicksand. (Who also played.) Also seeing a very early RATM show, and all of us sorta laughing at Zach trying to rap and annoyed that it didn't sound like Inside Out. It was kind of those Revelation Records post-hardcore bands that started it out, right?

Does anyone remember a band called House of Suffering? I still think they started the rap-hardcore thing...

Biohazard also responsible perhaps?

Giving me flashbacks to Dog Eat Dog on Headbanger's Ball. Who's the king who's the king who's the king who? Who's the king who's the king who-ha!

macdara is no fronting here ;)

anyway weren't Urban Dance Squad the first?

Senser ftw

I remember being in #metal on DALnet and there were vicious multilingual flame wars going on whenever anybody even mentioned Slipknot. At one point the metalheads running the channel (most of whom were Swedish) got so pissed off at nu-metal they basically coded a script that kick-banned people who even mentioned the names "Slipknot", "Korn" or any other band of the moment. Even if you said "Limp Bizkit sucks", as they weren't that good at programming.

haw haw, I remember this. i also vaguely remember Emperor and Cradle of Filth coming close to the status of Slipknot and Korn, but not quite.

Oh yeah, House of Suffering and Biohazard were around the same time. Anyway, just wanted to drop in to make sure nobody forgot Downset.

Emperor were getting flack for IX Equilibrium at the time, which was misguided. I also was a huge CoF fan (not so much anymore) so I fought over that, lol.

Some of the worst cover versions ever came out in the nu-metal era

lol YES. for a little while at least. I remember Postmortem being the dude that ran it, and a few other people. and _b0b_. and Depresy, and.....a few others.

wow, this is all coming back to me. I used to be an op on #mp3_death.

xp Two words: "Smooth Criminal"

xpost lol. I was Hell_Awaits and I got banned a lot. remembered nuking one of the Ops once in retaliation, was fun.

xp Two more words "Blue Monday"

"Word Up"

"Shock The Monkey"

"Mission Impossible theme"

xxxxp woah, I think I remember you. I was Desantnik.

OMG. I think I argued with you once or twice, lol!

haha, I was on the extreme end of things metal-wise. If you repped CoF, then we definitely had a word or two.

BJO arguing even back then? :D

It was right in the middle of a major depressive episode so honestly it would have been more rare if I wasn't arguing with people, usually in a series of expletives.

Emperor were getting flack for IX Equilibrium at the time, which was misguided.

Limp Bizkit's cover of Faith is probably the second most embarrassing song that I love, the first being the theme song from Dawson's Creek

I don't think IX Equilibrium was that bad. I liked about half of it (even though it was a marked step downward from its predecessor).

But the backlash I speak is that many metalheads in that channel basically wanted to disown Emperor's past because of one misstep.

haha wow guys i love ix equilibrium

damn

So any thoughts about the female contribution to nu-metal, folks?

Kittie? Sugarcoma?

I met the members of Kittie when they were on their first North American tour - they were opening for Disturbed. The Lander sisters' dad was their tour manager.

The thing that I tend to remember most about Kittie is that they tended to go through bandmembers like people with colds go through Kleenex.

I dont remember one single song by them. I just remember them being around.

You don't even remember that song I played for the LOLs in plug the other night? XD

they were a gimmick, and a dumb one at that. 'omg let's show the boys that girls can be metal too'. sorry, that had already been done (and better) by like, Girlschool, and the lead vocalist for the band Chastain, and even a few years earlier by Drain S.T.H.

Drain S.T.H. were they the swedish Alice In Chains soundalikes? They didn't have the S.T.H. bit in their name here, we dont do the london suede or charlatans uk thing.

yeah that was them.

the more poppist and annoying to "good taste" nu-metal gets the more i warm to it

"charlotte" is awesome

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkRWTWBBsAc

siamese dream-ish quality to their guitar tone

i just had a klondike bar, and i'm listening to staind

― markers, Monday, July 1, 2013 9:00 PM

how the fuck did we go from siamese dream to significant other in only six years

person pitch came out six years ago

jesus new filter album will really hurt your ears.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NVzypkryyc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayUlXGPC0SE

it is everything bad about bad things.

One of the worst bands I ever saw (supporting Smashing Pumpkins in 96)

I was wearing my Young Gods longsleeve and a bunch of people in the queue to get in were talking about how "Filter were the best industrial band".

i'm trying to think of a way to describe how shitty that filter stuff sounds but i'm having trouble. like shit dipped in shit and then put on top of shit to melt into a pool of shit that is then poured over your head while you are neck deep in a pile of shit.

"hey man nice shit" - a Filter fan

SP has only ever had complete shite openers bc billy can't be upstaged

this is probably a good thread for me to mention once again how baffled i am that all you dudes with good taste seem to still hold forth abt the deftones not being terrible. i like a lot of shitty stuff but man that band idgi

the deftones are seriously not terrible

is white pony the one thats supposed to be the conversion album? because ive listened to that and idk it sounds just like all the other stuff from this club to me, but slightly more boring

yes but idk, my impression of white pony is that yeah it's like the other stuff from its club but the grooves are more intricate and less obvious, with a heavier emphasis on atmosphere built from the drifting nature of their riffs and of chino's vocals. i'd probably recommend their last two records over it at this point tho

i had katatonia in my life. no need for deftones. hell i'd rather listen to soilwork.

Plus White Pony has the dude from Tool on it, so you know it's smart and arty!

ugh

i mean i get the deftones thing. why people like them. but if you like metal there are only a zillion better things to listen to that do similar things. the country of sweden spends half of their arts budget every year on coming up with better stuff.

i get totally different things out of katatonia and deftones but i can see where you're coming from scott

Plus White Pony has the dude from Tool on it, so you know it's smart and arty!

lol true but also idk "passenger" is such a solid song

White Pony has the dude from Tool on it

i did not know this

it's even in the youtube credits

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaXx2ocDo18

i don't even know how much of the album i've heard

at least "change" and "back to school" is probably on this too?

"change" is, "back to school" was added to the tracklisting when it was reissued a year later

I only had the original version of white pony and really liked "pink maggit" so "back to school" always turned me off, it's like the jock jam remix

yeah "back to school" is kinda terrible

I'm no Deftones fanboy by any stretch, but I really loved White Pony and the album after it. "Digital Bath" is such a simple song, yet contains such a moodiness to it (and that vocal on "feel likeeeeeeeee mooooooooooooooooooorreee" is so affecting).

Naturally, I do feel that they've been overrated in many circles, but I do feel like they were better than their peers once they got to that album.

Deftones greatly evolved out of the nu-metal thing. there is stuff on their new album that sounds more like Meshuggah than Korn or Slipknot...

..you guys are gonna get pissed at me for that! lol!

Here's a song that was a bit of guilty pleasure for me because it was so cheesy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oqifChF500

And in a way kind of reminds me of Electric Six

please don't get me wrong, i'll take deftones over like 95% of anything called nu-metal. lots of metal musicians like deftones too.

i just don't listen to them. but i haven't hated what i have heard.

ugh, remember these shitheads?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-WehSAYGxk

Ha, I interviewed one of them for Alternative Press.

phil, is it you who reps for the second disturbed record

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaptZgTDWEg

love this song

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnykIpoPrrA

I will honestly stan for the second Disturbed album. I hate the production on it (that overproduced generic guitar tone appeared on like 3,000 albums), but the songwriting's fairly strong. "Remember" was actually the song that got me to give it a listen, as a friend who was into them insisted they were much better now.

while I'm not a big Disturbed fan outside of that, I will say "Stupify" still gets me goin, and I did love their cover of "Land of Confusion".

Yeah, that was their best album by a fairly long stretch. I flew out to Chicago to interview them for AP's cover when that one came out.

feel like there was a phase around 2002 where a few of these bands really actively jettisoned the hip-hop elements from nu metal and tried to become sorta technical, but i guess the only other example i can think of is mudvayne

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhqRMzoyV4g

of course dir en grey took up this torch way later

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdceudJz8jA

it's not just not falling though, that whole record has good shit on it

let's see . . .

eh

Yeah, Mudvayne's The End of All Things to Come is actually a pretty good technical prog-thrash album. Hell, it was produced by David Bottrill, who did stuff for '90s King Crimson (and Tool, but never mind that).

"end" was the only record of theirs i ever got into

Me too. It was good enough that I stuck with them for one or two more albums, but the returns diminished in a big way.

omg do we all remember cold

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGT1QRyVYvY

just that song i think

what's wrong with my life today?

let's make this confusing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vrr3lRLjZ1Y

I remember the Cold song "No One".

I always mix up Cold the band w Crossfade the band whose big hit was Cold

I heard soooo much shitty nu-metal because my daily commute to school was 20 miles each way, and I had only a radio (no cd player) in my first ever car. so I'd get excited when a song that was somewhat mediocre came on.

I remember Kerrang pimping the band Cold but dont think I ever heard them.

I can't believe it, of all bands...

http://www.rocksound.tv/m/news/article/sugarcoma-to-return-for-one-off-london-show-in-october

Then:

http://designermagazine.tripod.com/SugarcomaPIC5.jpg

Now:

http://1.2.3.10/bmi/www.rocksound.tv/images/uploads/sugarcomaposter600.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1CE4P8qqPE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUrH7xjk820

ag u love this shit, right?

let's start a band together to cover it

Tuomas might recall both of those videos as they were always on MTV Europe.

Some very localised UK memories, for what it's worth

– Kids who liked rap music and wore adidas hated korn fans for wearing adidas, meanwhile korn fans hating rap kids for wearing adidas liked korn for wearing adidas, idk

– Similarly, it was okay to like rage against the machine but not any other music with rapping. Maybe at a pinch public enemy or cypress hill.

- Similarly, it was okay to like the prodigy but not any other electronic music. In both cases, rapping or electronic beats were supposedly being 'salvaged', I think, by rock, which was 'good music'

- Believe it or not, liking this korn and slipknot was as close as many provincial kids could get to being queer, androgynous, arty; they definitely weren't listening to Bowie, pulp, suede, smiths etc.

– A number of people I knew as a teenager were swallowed up by this and are still into it AFAIK, still fighting the good fight against the sheeple. Some of them also now like dubstep

- In theory the crass tastelessness of the genre should make me like it, but I've tried looking at it again, and I don't think I can. Partly because it doesn't think itself tasteless - there's a lot of 'see me playing this instrument devotedly' and 'hear my sincere lyrics' in there.

– This applies even and especially to: Tool, Incubus and System of a Down, who are probably the likeliest candidates for post-mortem salvage. There's a sunny chunkiness to the riffs, an earnest plain-ness, that somehow makes them seem ridiculous in context of the last ten years ... I think The Strokes managed to kill nu-metal AND travis-coldplay indie dead in the UK

- Of course, I was never into nm.

yeah, there was a lot of 'ickiness' in nu-metal (not that it isn't in actual metal too). shit like the aforementioned Union Underground, Puddle of Mudd, etc.

Oh and another thing - someone upthread mentions being called a mosher and kids liking nu-metal and pop-punk all in together, and yeah, that rings true.

In the actual UK late 90s/2000s teenage experience there was a cluster of 'clashing' genres people listened to – somehow managing to like (the pseudo-intellectual solitary negativity of) Nine Inch Nails and (the grinning stupid fun of) Blink 182. Also no-one seemed to notice the now glaringly obvious disconnect between Alice in Chains and Nirvana.

(But let's not get too carried away, the sheer spitting hatred exhibited for almost anything made by black people or on a computer or for people to dance to provided the boundary of that mix.)

And fashion sense in the 13-18 age range was far from homogenous - any possible combination of trenchcoats and long black sleeved t-shirts, skate clothes, and those hawaian shirts with samurais or dragons on them. Subcultural styles which, in America where they came from, were distinct seemed to get mashed together in a sort of gleefully ignorant collage. Like, I only found out the other day on an ILX thread that originally, the big baggy jeans were associated with ... rave music?

Sometimes someone would find themselves an older boyfriend or have an older brother or sister who was either at college or lived in a more connected place and they would tend to have a much more defined style, really 'being' 'a skateboarder' or 'a metal head' specifically. These people were actually pretty threatening and not very nice, a bit 'cool', and in some kind of metaphyiscal trial I might actually defend the provincial weirdos of the teenage north as being fairly affable sometimes.

It might also be possible to come up with a contextual defense of nu-metal's very specific kind of teenage angst (which is nothing at all like The Ramones, is it?) by way of the absolute intolerance for anything remotely different, exhibited by mad hard bastards who were either 'from the council estates' or you lived on the council estates with them, depending. They'd happily smack the head of a younger child open against the side of the war memorial; it's easy to forget what growing up is actually like in a deprived area.

don't insult puddle of mudd!

I LOVE THE WAY YOU SMACK MY ASS

I LOVE THE DIRTY THINGS YOU DO

I HAVE CONTROL OF YOU

I wonder if many OG Britpop kids from 95 got into this stuff

the og nu metallers and britpop kids circa 94/95/96 didn't really crossover ime. And when nu metal exploded into the mainstream it was the younger kids who got into it. 8 year olds into linkin park and limp bizkit. It was always bizarre seeing 8 and 9 year olds with slipknot hoodies but I saw it a lot in the provincial town im from.

nu-metal definitely did attract some of the people who would kick your head in previously for liking metal or grunge or indie but thankfully I was past that age of growing up. (However here when I was 18 if you were into grunge or metal the happy hardcore hardmen would threaten to stab you or whatever) If anyone remembers Ch4 teletext of the time it was full of kids moaning about 'townies' (some areas had their own words ) beating them up. (Scottish kids said neds) then in the 00s townies got replaced by 'chavs'.

If anyone remembers Ch4 teletext of the time it was full of kids moaning about 'townies'

Fuck.

Always wondered what the etymology of townies was - was it to do with people going to town, to get drunk?

Dunno about Britpop/nm crossover but there was a slight chance of Manic Street Preachers. Oasis were definitely not acceptable, and though no-one had listened to blur or pulp they were associated with oasis and rejected on that principle.

But people who really liked Placebo and Manic Street Preachers were a year or two older than me when I was 13-14 (bearing in mind local time-bubble effects) and slightly mysterious.

... and I think here's the thing, nu-metal is probably one of those genres that almost no-one will look back on and say 'Wow, what a genre, it meant so much and was so important, do u remember when this genre of music was current? Wow!'

Like I can't really imagine anything like this happening for nu metal, but I could be wrong:

http://www.vice.com/read/rave-video-comments-will-restore-your-faith-in-humanity

(And, you know, people like to say 'no-one will remember this' about whatever current music they don't like, but there are tons of genres and clusters of acts like this. Bro-step surely, I feel pretty confident in saying that. Like nu-metal it has the embarrassing quality of seamlessly linking in, aesthetically and philosophically, to whatever computer games and comic books and plastic model robots the listener hasn't quite grown out of yet. Like, it isn't the soundtrack to a definite break from childhood into adulthood.)

However: it is always still possible to look back on a cultural milieu/stage of ur development/time and place through its associated music, whether or not that music is any good, and, er, do I have a point there? Not sure why anyone would want to go on a vision quest back to 2002-5, but if they did ...

And, you know, people like to say 'no-one will remember this' about whatever current music they don't like, but there are tons of genres and clusters of acts like this. Bro-step surely, I feel pretty confident in saying that. Like nu-metal it has the embarrassing quality of seamlessly linking in, aesthetically and philosophically, to whatever computer games and comic books and plastic model robots the listener hasn't quite grown out of yet. Like, it isn't the soundtrack to a definite break from childhood into adulthood.

― cardamon, Monday, July 22, 2013 8:38 PM (7 minutes ago)

thing is, the juvenile & unsophisticated often exerts a lasting hold: kiss, ac/dc, motorhead (metal in general), star wars, godzilla, chucks & jeans, space jam, the judgement night soundtrack. whatever you were having an awesome time losing your shit to (or in) when you were too dumb to know any better. people remember that stuff. nu-metal and brostep fit in perfectly with that. just have to wait for the kids who were super into disturbed at age 9 to hit 30, 35.

i dunno, maybe that was your point. got a little hard to follow, tbh.

I was sort of saying, even if what you're suggesting doesn't happen (and I'd completely not thought it through but what you say there is otm) and it fades into forgotten genres or ones where people look at it and think 'wtf was all that about, then?' - then it still might tell future archaeologists something about its time, sort of thing.

I don't know about the UK, but in the states the kids that were into Nu metal, and the Adidas wearing, the skater clothes, pro hats, dickies and ben davis and raver pants, were all huge into hip-hop. In fact at this time, I was listening to WAY more hip hop than I was heavy music. I personally was seeing the older metal I use to listen to as dated, and this melting of the genres was the future. I started a band doing just that, and a shit ton of friends though the idea was ridiculous until they saw how we did it, and we killed it! cuz kids around here had musical tastes that ranged from Dr Dre to NIN. It was a way fro EVERYONE to come together a groove and vibe with each other.. Sure, our shows were mostly fans of heavier music, but there were a grip of Hip-hop heads at out shows that got what we were trying to do. It was fun, it reflected urban and suburban living, but was about sharing and vibing in a positive way.

Like I said up thread, the goons that got the mainstream attention-Durst and Kid Rock- ruined it for anyone else that was doing something really cool and legit.

yeah, there's some truth to that, i think. period of free cross-pollination between rap, metal, funk, punk, "alternative" & even jazz was cool in lots of ways. like grunge, it got hogged up by horrid dorks and quickly came to seem rather embarrassing, but a lot of perfectly decent babies went out with the bathwater.

rap metal was perfectly acceptable due to ratm/judgement night soundtrack (which led to the above 2 vids i posted) then Kerrang coined Korn/Coal Chamber as Nu-Metal (cuz metal was "dated") and it all went to shit.

Urban Dance Squad have a lot to answer for.

Urban Dance Squad ruled

it has the embarrassing quality of seamlessly linking in, aesthetically and philosophically, to whatever computer games and comic books and plastic model robots the listener hasn't quite grown out of yet. Like, it isn't the soundtrack to a definite break from childhood into adulthood

gut feeling is that there's something to this

first Korn album is great and was very original at the time. i recall coming home late from a party one night feeling characteristically groggy and just... staring, dumbstruck, at that album cover for a good ten minutes.

i always liked Around the Fur by Deftones as well. it has less of the sentimental, meditative moments that emerged later on, but is very powerful in parts.

it has the embarrassing quality of seamlessly linking in, aesthetically and philosophically, to whatever computer games and comic books and plastic model robots the listener hasn't quite grown out of yet. Like, it isn't the soundtrack to a definite break from childhood into adulthood

gut feeling is that there's something to this

might explain why it appealed to 8 year olds too?

i kinda flitted between britpop and rock in the mid-late 90s, went a lot of big rock clubs and yeah, nu-metal kids were always seen as just that: kids. tolerated by all the goth and metal guys but definitely a touch of the younger sibling about them. odd bit of crossover with deftones and system of a down but the term 'nu metal' was never uttered by any of my lot (aged 17-24)

^Symposium kid instead

Actually I'd add WWE Wrestling into it too.

In America "Jocks" were the audience, right? But we dont have that here. I recall ch4 teletext complaints of "townies" beating up "goths" (a catch all for any kid into rock or metal by the happy hardcore types) and certainly in Scotland the "Neds" were the ones who would beat up these kids. So its really weird to me how mainstream nu-metal got (conquering singles charts and commercial radio airplay in a way no grunge,80s metal, 70s metal zep, sabbath , def leppard ANY OF IT had done previously despite being massive in the USA.
There's many things to do with nu-metal I go "Why?", but honestly why did it get so popular here in the UK unlike every other heavy rock/metal scene before it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=GyAAwCu-Lu4

http://youtu.be/GyAAwCu-Lu4

haha did Keith prevent new limp bizkit vids from being embedded? :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyAAwCu-Lu4

you have to copy/paste or type the url in a very specific way for it to work

your first c/p shouldn't have had the feature=blahblah part in it

the second one was a short url.

Did you like the song M?

hahaha i only listened to a little bit

it's no rollin that's for sure

haha. its pretty bad, not that rollin wasnt, but i get your point. weezy comes off really bad too. If this is a hit then the world is fucked.

Fred durst is still a whiny cunt though so some things are similar to their old stuff ;)

this is where i say that i actually like a lot of their older stuff

of course you do

jocks like you always did. How many kids at intervals did you beat up and steal snacks off at school?

video cuts off what i thought was the most interesting part of the song, wes borland's weird disconnected guitar outro

song is otherwise hideous. "weezy comes off really bad too" it's been like years of wayne coming off band at this point

coming off bad* ugh

So its really weird to me how mainstream nu-metal got (conquering singles charts and commercial radio airplay in a way no grunge,80s metal, 70s metal zep, sabbath , def leppard ANY OF IT had done previously despite being massive in the USA.

is this true? i had the idea that 70s metal was huge in the UK (sabbath, led zep, budgie, etc), and the whole NWOBHM thing too (including def lep, priest, maiden, motorhead, etc). plus nirvana.

are you saying that those acts weren't hitmakers in the UK?

fair point!
xp

was only a very young lad in the 70s (born 73) so cant really speak about those days but whilst those bands were obviousl huge , not really on radio (zep never released singles here) Paranoid was obv a #3 single i think but was it played on radio? I dunno ask some old fart ilxor!

I never heard any rawk on radio here in the 80s not even def leppard. GnR was the only one. Commercial radio certainly didnt.
In the 90s Radio 1 did play nirvana,pearl jam, soundgarden,alice in chains etc but again commercial radio didn't (as i said earlier they even didnt play them in the top 40 rundowns)

rock radio never existed here either. Which was a great pity.

so yeah large fanbases made songs a hit (maiden hitting #1) but they were never playlisted.

Limp Bizkit, Linkin Park, then later offspring/green day (pretty fly/american idiot era) all were.

Oh to clarify im not saying bands didn't get big. Just that not as big as elsewhere and radioplay-wise. Bands could enter the singles chart high on week of release then drop out the next.
I suppose the marketers at commercial radio thought it put off listeners. Which it somehow didn't with those other bands later. no, idgi either.

rock radio never existed here either. Which was a great pity.

weird :/

explains a lot tho...

iirc motley crue,poison etc would get one week at #28 and things like that.
Songs that did crossover were Jump by van halen, final countdown by europe. Oh and ballads (extreme, mr big etc)

friday night rock show on Radio 1 was where you heard it (commercial radio had an equivalent too, well at least radio clyde did) but 2 hours a week at 10pm friday night was your lot. Now you know why Alan Freeman and Tommy Vance (and peel) were such gods to us.

– Was UK going through an economic upturn at the time of nu-metal? Parents and thus kids having more money?
- Availability of cheap CD players, portable ones too, and CDs being cheaper than vinyl?
– Earlier onset of 'adolescence' as a period in a consumer's life, meaning pre-teen kids now wanted CDs and pop culture?

+ what I said upthread about the genre's childishness

"those hawaian shirts with samurais or dragons on them"

I remember those but I had no idea they were a trend!

These things are always going to vary from place to place but I do remember kids who liked britpop, nu metal and hip hop. I recall "neds" liking some nu-metal a lot, but mostly hip hop and a bit of Oasis. Of the kids who were pro-hiphop and anti-rock, there was a funny assumption that hiphop never had any rock instruments ever used. I also recall there being a rockist anti-keyboard thing, but I couldnt make sense of that, since loads of classic rock and metal uses keyboards.
Rock and hip hop fans all loved wrestling mostly.

I remember Mark Radcliffe and Marc Riley on their radio show talking about Fred Durst approaching Britney Spears (I think there was a story about her bodyguard pushing Durst away from her), because of his appearance, they kept on making him out to be a regular working class builder/painter/construction worker and one of them did this hilarious impersonation of Durst asking Spears "d'ye fancy a dance luv".

About the possible nostalgia for Nu-metal: I think the reason this thread exists is because the genre is so widely disliked. I remember there being a music video channel time called "Real metal, none of that Nu-shit!"; also that the word "Nu" attached to anything was regarded as a horrible stain. Even a lot of kids at the time thought it was ridiculous and cringeworthy for the most part, the ridicule was coming from all circles, it wasnt just some anti-rock or anti-metal thing. People are unpleasantly surprised when an adult likes Limp Bizkit, Linkin Park and Papa Roach.
Was anyone ever surprised when the original Motorhead and AC/DC fans got into their 30s and 40s and still liked those bands? I know the perception of metal has changed a lot over the decades.

In reading a lot of criticism of all sorts of arts recently, I've noticed the words "adolescent", "infantile" and a lot of other things like that. It's got me thinking a lot about how much real maturity or intelligence has anything to do with the criticisms and how much it has to do with the general associations with things to different age groups.
Growing up you realise that some of your childhood and teenage things were actually really brilliant but also that my parents were right in denying me Power Rangers stuff because it wasnt any good (I still think some of the monsters were kinda cool though).
I think it is important to question and challenge what is inherently immature and what things adults unwisely let go of for fear of being called childish (not a mature thing to fear).

I can promise you nobody hated nu-metal more than anyone actually into metal.

I heard that at the bigger metal festivals rougly 7 or 8 years ago, old biker guys were looking for fights with helpless emo kids; which is obviously taking it way too far.

ugh. So much for the metal brotherhood.

its bad enough for those kids hanging outside the Glasgow Modern Art Gallery getting stabbed/chased/hassled by neds without getting beat up at places they should be safe by those who are part of the 'brotherhood of metal'. Yes we all hate nu metal and lookdown on it saying its not real metal but they were us at our age. Sad, Very.Sad.

Stabbed!? I didnt know people got stabbed there. I dont know if I should be surprised by any violence in glasgow but I often forget this stuff goes on.

Also, I think those old biker guys couldnt see themselves in My Chemical Romance fans who are proud of their sensitive and feminine appearance.

well ive heard stories of the "goths" being threatened with knives but dont know if anything actually happened. Unlike down in England where Sophie Lancaster got murdered in 2007 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophie_Lancaster

rag is that your irl name and if so you may regret posting here with it a few years from now. just giving you a heads up. but maybe you won't!

beware anyone unaware of it as its a horrible story.

for those at work who cant click on links

Sophie Lancaster (born 26 November 1986) was a former pupil at Bacup and Rawtenstall Grammar School, Haslingden High School and a gap year student planning to attend Accrington and Rossendale College to do an English degree. She had been dating Maltby, a 21-year-old art student at Manchester, for three years, and they both had a long-standing attachment to the goth subculture. The couple's family described them as "Goths", and said: "They're both intelligent, sensitive kids. They're not the sort of people to get in trouble, but they have had problems in the past because they stand out."[3]

Lancaster's parents said of her after her death:

"We were proud to know our daughter. She was funny, kind, loving and brave. She was a beautiful girl with a social conscience and values which made her a joy to know. Not being able to see her blossom into her full potential or even to see her smile again is a tragedy beyond words."[4]

Lancaster's mother said:

"The thing that makes me most angry is that it is seen as an isolated incident, maybe the seriousness of what happened to Sophie is isolated, but attacks are far from isolated. Just because you follow a different culture you are targeted; you are seen as easy pickings."[5]

Rod Liddle in The Sunday Times noted after the murder that the victims of the attack had paid the price for the indulgence of the "feral" criminals who perpetrated it "by their parents, by the courts, by the council, by a government which wants to send fewer such people to prison."[6]
The attack

While returning home, Lancaster and Maltby were subjected to a "vicious mob attack" from "a large group of people" between 01:10 hours and 01:20 hours on Saturday, 11 August 2007, at the skate park area of Stubbylee Park, Bacup (grid reference SD865218).[3] The couple were walking home and came across a group of teenagers at the entrance to the park.[7] The group followed them, but there was no trouble until some of them suddenly assaulted Robert Maltby without provocation. When he was knocked unconscious, the gang attacked Sophie Lancaster, who was trying to protect him by cradling him in her arms. A 15-year-old witness told police: "They were running over and just kicking her in the head and jumping up and down on her head." One distraught witness used a mobile phone to call for emergency services saying: "We need... we need an ambulance at Bacup Park, this mosher has just been banged because he’s a mosher."[8] Witnesses revealed that afterwards, "The killers celebrated their attack on the goths — or "moshers" - by telling friends afterwards that they had "done summat [something] good," and claiming: "There's two moshers nearly dead up Bacup park — you wanna see them — they're a right mess."[9] The injured couple were assisted by some of the teenagers who called emergency services and then stayed with them and tried to tend their wounds. At the trial they were commended by the judge.[10]

Police said soon afterwards that it was "a sustained attack during the course of which the pair received serious head injuries and their faces were so swollen we could not ascertain which one was female and which one was male." Both were hospitalised as a result of the attack, initially at Rochdale Infirmary.[2] Maltby's injuries left him in a coma with bleeding on the brain. He gradually recovered, but was left with lasting brain damage. Lancaster, in a deep coma, was moved to Fairfield Hospital in Bury, then to the Neurology unit at Hope Hospital in Salford. It became clear to hospital staff that she would never regain consciousness, and on 24 August 2007 her family agreed to switch off life support.[4]

fuck it.
i am going to play some nu-metal now (linkin, limp, coal chamber, korn, icp, mash out posse)
its easy to hate, but even easier to enjoy (after a few glasses of plonk of course !)

its safe to say you've had more than a few then?

I'm glad I dont drink!

you know me so well ag ..

getting stabbed/chased/hassled by neds

scan reading this made my heart skip a beat ...

wtf is a 'ned' other than a fun lovin', long haired bloke that we all love ...

its been a term around since at least the 80s. It does not mean Non Educated Delinquent as someone came up years later with the backronym. A scottish version of "chav" to you

1st time i ever heard it was in the 1st or 2nd taggart episode when he talked about neds in the park. It probably dates back further but it was common usage by late 80s (Senga is a female ned btw )

I remember that story. I once had a buddy brag to me that his older brother went up to the Cathouse queues and just randomly attacked "moshers", the idiot thought I would find this funny.

Markers says "rag is that your irl name and if so you may regret posting here with it a few years from now. just giving you a heads up. but maybe you won't!"

Aside from the general perils of the internet, what specifically about this place makes my real name a danger?

if you don't care about having it out there, then that's fine i guess!

just ask l0u1s jagg3r hehehe

ta .. never heard it before.

ok, i'm already bored re nu-metal ..

going back to my kpm library music compilations ..

"just ask l0u1s jagg3r hehehe"

Been searching around and cant find his fate. What happened?

Did anyone ever see this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bomYFiWQUw

They make it sound like a Forever Changes outtake!

hahahaha he's imago now and I'll leave him to guide you..

Sophie Lancaster case should be balanced against the way the word chav migrated from the playground/street to the adult political sphere - balanced against, not negated by.

It would be quite interesting to talk to someone who was into NM at the time and still is, as I said upthread some old acquaintances of mine would fit this bill but they've long gone from my life

i would imagine a lot of people who grew up with it will still be nostalgic for it

i think most of the nu metallers got into emo which in some ways is a bit strange considering image, but then again people like what they hear on radio/what their friends are into.

mate of mine was dragged along to a local rock club (manchester) on friday night and was surprised/horrified to find them playing some of this music, along with blink 182, sum 41, etc. teenagers bouncing about and enjoying this stuff in 2013. nuts.

also, this seems relevant to this thread: http://ichlugebullets.wordpress.com/2010/07/19/ilb-presents-top-50-songs-reminiscent-of-a-night-in-a-shitty-provincial-rock-club-between-1999-and-2003/

thats like a list of markers fave songs

i think most of the nu metallers got into emo which in some ways is a bit strange considering image, but then again people like what they hear on radio/what their friends are into.

I was under the impression that emo was what took the place of music for angsty teenagers to listen to, rather than what the angsty teenagers who listened to nu-metal moved on to.

Or at least in my circle of friends, the people I knew who were hardcore nu-metal fans ended up moving on to listening to stuff like Wilco and Spoon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1tAYmMjLdY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLlmqySJTI8

Folks I know that really liked that time of music and when all the bands were young- Korn, Deftones, Incubus, Limp Biskit, 311, hed P.E., Downset-still really, really like that era of music. And look for new stuff that still does what these bands were doing..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23560474

Russia bans US rockers Bloodhound Gang over flag stunt
Video still of Jared Hasselhoff with Russian flag The incident took place in the Ukrainian city of Odessa

US rock group Bloodhound Gang has been banned from a Russian music festival after a band member stuffed the Russian flag into his underpants on stage.

Culture Minister Vladimir Medinsky described the band as "idiots" and said they were "packing their suitcases".

Bass player Jared Hasselhoff was seen in a video posted on YouTube pushing the flag into the front of his pants and pulling them out of the back.

Hasselhoff later apologised for the stunt, local media reported.

The incident took place in a 31 July concert in the Ukrainian city of Odessa.

"Don't tell Putin," Hasselhoff said to applause as he grabbed a Russian flag from the wall behind and performed the stunt.
'Idiots'

The band had been expected to play at the Kubana festival, held in the first week in August in Russia's southern Krasnodar region, also known as Kuban.

But their performance billed for Friday was cancelled.

"I spoke to the Krasnodar region authorities. Bloodhound Gang is packing their suitcases," Mr Medinsky said on Twitter.

"These idiots will not perform in Kuban."

Festival organiser Ilya Ostrovsky told gazeta.ru: "We're here to make friends or listen to music. We will not allow anyone to insult the inhabitants of any country."

Local media reports later said that Hasselhoff had been questioned by police.

The head of Russia's Investigations Committee, Vladimir Markin, said his department was prepared to pursue criminal charges against "all those involved" if prosecutors decided there was a case.

The band is still in Russia but has left Anapa, the town where the festival is being held.

Bloodhound Gang formed in the 1990s and are known for their provocative and sexually explicit lyrics.

The US Bloodhound Gang has been attacked by unknown persons who identified themselves as Cossacks at the Anapa airport, the Ekho Moskvy radio station quoted Komsomolskaya Pravda photo reporter Nikolai Khizhnyak.

"The musicians were sitting in the airport lounge when two or five Cossacks arrived; they had an argument and the Cossacks tried to smother the band's bassist with the US flag. The police had to interfere and set them apart. The musicians tried to escape into the VIP zone bypassing control but the airport staff stopped them and the police took them under protection. The musicians are staying in the VIP zone now," the radio quoted Khizhnyak.

He said no one was detained.

"The Cossacks appeared suddenly and made a sudden departure," the photo reporter said.

He also said the musicians were waiting for their flight to Moscow.

Meanwhile Russian Interior Ministry claimed that Bloodhound Gang musician's questioning material passed to prosecutors.

The Krasnodar territorial police have referred to prosecutors the material of questioning of the Bloodhound Gang musician suspected of the defiling of the Russian flag.

"The Anapa police questioned the musician and handed over the material to prosecutors, who will make a procedural decision," a Russian Interior Ministry spokesman said.

Earlier the Russian Investigative Committee said it is ready to probe the defiling of the Russian flag by Bloodhound Gang in the case it receives such directives from prosecutors.

"If prosecutors instruct the Russian Investigative Committee to start an inquiry into this cynical crime we will do our best to identity and bring to court every involved person, from perpetrators to masterminds," Investigative Committee spokesman Vladimir Markin said on Saturday.

"Apparently, a crime defined by Article 329 of the Russian Criminal Code, the defiling of the Russian state flag, has been committed and this is a premeditated offense," Markin said.

"However, such criminal cases can be opened and investigated by investigative bodies of the Interior Ministry," the spokesman said.

He said he was hopeful of "assistance from Ukrainian colleagues" if the case was referred to the Investigative Committee.

Some media reported earlier that a Bloodhound Gang bassist performed a stunt at a concert in Odessa that was perceived as the defiling of a Russian flag.

Culture Minister Vladimir Medinsky said on Twitter late on Friday that the Bloodhound Gang's planned performance at a festival in the Krasnodar territory had been canceled following the incident.

"Talked to Krasnodar territory leadership. Bloodhound Gang packing suitcases. These idiots won't perform in Kuban [Krasnodar territory]," Medinsky said.

Bloodhound Gang bassist 'Evil' Jared Hasselhoff later apologized for the incident.

Speaking at a press conference, Hasselhoff said it was a pure coincidence that a Russian flag appeared onstage.

At the end of the show, the bassist wished to give it to the audience but did it in a weird way.

A video available on YouTube shows Hasselhoff tucking the Russian white-blue-red tricolor into the front of his pants and then pulling it out of the back before throwing it to the crowd.

He explained the stunt by a tradition existing in the band, according to which anything going from the stage at their concerns is supposed to pass through the bassist's pants.

Krasnodar region Governor Alexander Tkachyov has suggested that any performances of the US rock band Bloodhound Gang in Russia should be canceled following a recent incident in Odessa involving what he sees as the defiling of a Russian flag.

"I hope anyone related to the organization of concerts of these Americans in our country will declare a lifelong boycott to them. Such things can't be forgiven," Tkachyov said on Twitter on Saturday.

"Everyone has taken this disgusting act as a personal insult," Tkachyov said.

"It is good that even those who have arrived at Kubana [a rock festival in the Krasnodar region] only to hear this group have booed the bastards. Our patriotism is higher than our musical preferences," he said.

Group Bloodhound Gang desecrates Russian flag, banned from Kuban

A concert that was supposed to be given by the American rock band Bloodhound Gang at a festival in the Kuban Region will not be taking place after an incident involving the Russian flag in Odessa, wrote Russian Culture Minister Vladimir Medinsky on his Twitter microblog.

The matter has been discussed by the administration of the Krasnodar region.

"The rock band Bloodhound Gang are packing their bags. These idiots will not be performing in Kuban" wrote Medinsky.

During a concert in Odessa bass player Jared Hasselhoff desecrated a Russian flag by shoving it inside his pants and then threw it into the crowd.

The group was supposed to perform at the festival "Kubana" which opened on Thursday in the village of Blagoveshenskaya "The Annunciation" on the coast of the Black Sea.

Voice of Russia, TASS, RIA, Interfax

...Bloodhound Gang are still around?

my fave bit

Krasnodar region Governor Alexander Tkachyov has suggested that any performances of the US rock band Bloodhound Gang in Russia should be canceled following a recent incident in Odessa involving what he sees as the defiling of a Russian flag.

"I hope anyone related to the organization of concerts of these Americans in our country will declare a lifelong boycott to them. Such things can't be forgiven," Tkachyov said on Twitter on Saturday.

"Everyone has taken this disgusting act as a personal insult," Tkachyov said.

"It is good that even those who have arrived at Kubana [a rock festival in the Krasnodar region] only to hear this group have booed the bastards. Our patriotism is higher than our musical preferences," he said.

they're not numetal tho?

at least the discovery channel song wasn't

they started off as nu metal

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPdHMWVJoS8

lol crappy song

you expected them to have non crappy songs?

idk the single is good

I-95
Eight lanes wide
Midnight drive
Take a ride
Alongside
East coast tide
Getting high
So am I

what a time

...Bloodhound Gang are still around?

― Ned Raggett, Saturday, August 3, 2013 5:40 PM (1 week ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^^^

Meanwhile on other continents...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8tZYcLwWuM

I'm bummed, no "I'm Feeling those Lighters" shout out.

http://consequenceofsound.net/2013/10/in-defense-of-post-grunge-music/

I CAN'T TELL IF THIS IS A PARODY OR NOT

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VskhT_O1bGM

bollocks to korn

Holy fuck

after seeing that poll #3 Modern Rock Hits: The Nu-Metal craze

I am more convinced than ever it was the worst ever time

http://www.theguardian.com/theobserver/2000/sep/03/features.review87

It was a watershed week in the history of rock. A week when the old British establishment was toppled and a new wave of American bands took over. A week when the generational divide was reasserted, and teen-pop duo Daphne and Celeste were pelted with bottles full of urine. A week when Britt Ekland slipped on a melon and broke her ankle. It was that kind of week. Nothing will ever be the same again.

It started last weekend, when the Reading and Leeds festivals, though headlined by Oasis, Stereophonics and Pulp, were dominated by the sound of nu metal: hordes of kids in baggy shorts moshed to Slipknot and Limp Bizkit and booed every mention of Oasis's name. One merchandise salesman revealed that, on Monday in Leeds, he had sold 14 Oasis T-shirts and 2,500 Slipknot T-shirts. The covers of both NME and Melody Maker featured Fred Durst of Limp Bizkit singing to a sea of faces at Reading. According to Wednesday's Independent, this was 'the night the Nineties ended'.

On Tuesday, day zero of the new era, I went to the annual awards ceremony for Kerrang! magazine - until recently an anachronistic heavy rock magazine, now the bible of the nu-metal scene and the only music magazine in Britain with rising sales figures. The magazine's editor Paul Rees hailed 'a remarkable year for rock music'. Slipknot collected three awards, each time smashing up their chairs and tossing microphone stands from the stage. An hour later, Britt Ekland had her unfortunate accident, having to be carried up on to the stage in order to present an honorary award to Marilyn Manson, last year's scariest man in the world, who praised Slipknot for their 'honesty' and mused about being 'over the hill'.

It was a bizarre evening, but the sense of being on the right side of a coup d'état was unmistakable. The Kerrang! Creativity Award, for example, went to Ross Robinson, the man who discovered and produced many of the bands at the heart of this new wave - including Slipknot - and who has just been given his own international record label by Virgin. With his bright white sneakers and clean-cut face, this 33-year-old Californian looks an unlikely revolutionary, but he talks the talk. In a booth at the Hammersmith Palais, while a succession of people come over to slap his back, Robinson explains the spirit that unites this new wave of rock bands: 'Passion and hunger,' he says. 'Absolute hunger. It's not about getting chicks or making money or any of that crap. It's about being pure and real, beautiful and extreme.'

As with punk in the Seventies, the movement is spearheaded by two bands with markedly different agendas - Limp Bizkit, the Clash-like poster boys, and Slipknot, the Sex Pistols of their generation: mask-wearing nihilists who hate everything.

Following in their slipstream are a legion of American bands, including established, million-selling acts like Korn, Kid Rock, Deftones and Rage Against the Machine, and newer bands such as Amen, Glass Jaw and At The Drive-In.

Whatever you want to call this movement - nu metal, sports metal, adidas rock -it has its roots in the fusion of hard rock and hardcore rap. The bands are all white, as are most of their fans, but they revere and borrow from the musical and fashion stylings of black hip-hop culture, creating a massive new subculture which is energetic but nihilistic, angst-ridden but with the beats and riffs to get a frat party going.

All these bands know each other, but they are not exactly friends. In the space of three days, I hear Slipknot diss Limp Bizkit, Marilyn Manson diss Limp Bizkit, and Limp Bizkit diss Slipknot and Marilyn Manson. As Fred Durst yells on Limp Bizkit's recent Top 3 single, 'Take A Look Around' (the theme to Mission Impossible 2 ), 'hate is all the world has seen lately'.

To anyone over the age of 20, there is something comical about all this. I have seen few things funnier than Slipknot's unease at the Kerrang! Awards. 'We don't know how to feel about this,' one of the masked figures confessed gruffly as he clutched the Best International Live Act gong. 'It's way too formal and we're a band that likes to puke on each other and beat each other up.' Ten minutes later, pronounced Best Band in the World, they throw a table full of drinks to the floor, dedicate the award to 'my grandmother', then stand meekly in line to collect their gold discs. The ghost of Spinal Tap hovers in the background.

But the fact that it's all been done before doesn't make this phenomenon any less meaningful. This is the sound of a generation - or at least of the half of a generation that isn't E'd off its collective head at the local club. Ecstasy and agony, it seems, are the only popular cultural options available to the modern teenager.

Twenty-four hours later, in a Parisian boardroom, angst is still in the air as Limp Bizkit's Fred Durst and Wes Borland answer questions from the European press about Woodstock (the band were blamed by some people for the rioting and arson that took place at last year's festival), the title of their forthcoming album ( Chocolate Starfish and the Hot Dog-Coloured Water - it's lavatorial humour; 'the most stupid title we could think of'), and why they think everyone hates them. 'It is just marketing, yes?' probes one French journalist. Durst and Borland are articulate and dry-witted, but their message is familiar and deadly earnest. 'I'm not drinking alcohol and popping pills and taking heroin and fucking chicks all day,' says Durst, who is 26, gruffly good-looking and permanently baseball-capped.

He is, rather, trying to express his feelings about the screwed-up nature of the world, and by extension the feelings of 'his' generation (albeit most of his generation are roughly half his age). The chorus to the band's new single, 'My Generation', goes: 'How can we give a fuck about anyone else if they don't give a fuck about us?' Outside on the street, hundreds of French skate-kids send up chants of approval.

Like Slipknot, Korn and others, Limp Bizkit's main, abiding concern is for their fans. They are in the vanguard of bands using the internet to their advantage - their latest free-entry tour of the US was sponsored by Napster - and, in contrast to the rather high-minded, artistic ways of earlier rock bands, Limp Bizkit regard themselves as their fans' servants, much as boy-bands profess to do. 'We would never have a sudden change of musical direction and leave our fans behind,' Durst swears. 'Our new album is like the first two, only more so. If you like Limp Bizkit, you'll love the new album. If you don't like us, you'll hate it.'

By 9pm a generation is sweating out its anxieties in a seething, sweltering, 2,000-capacity venue. All bare-chested boys and nose-ringed girls, the Parisian audience is in its late teens and knows every word to every noxious American rap ('Everything is fucked, everybody sucks... your best bet is to stay away, motherfucker!'). At heart, though, Limp Bizkit are a powerful, theatrical rock band - entertainers who cover George Michael's 'Faith' and use fireworks, glitter confetti and jets of flame to give things a lift. Next March's European tour will, they promise, be a production '10 times bigger than anything seen in the last few years'. Afterwards the reviewer from Kerrang! sniffs something disdainful about 'metal cabaret'.

As Durst well knows, mass success brings with it the seeds of destruction, particularly for bands as desperately, self-consciously 'real' as Limp Bizkit and Slipknot. At the Kerrang! Awards, Ross Robinson muttered darkly about nu metal already being 'about to die'. In the Paris press conference, Durst imagines, a few years down the line, that 'everyone will be like: "Limp Bizkit? They suck, man!" The best any band can hope for is to be a little moment in history.'

Fasten your seatbelts, dudes. This is your moment.

The beginner's guide to Nu Metal

The bands Limp Bizkit. Slipknot. Korn. Rage Against the Machine. Deftones. Amen. Static-X. System of a Down. At the Drive-In. Snot. Orgy.

The music Loud and heavy guitars, big crashing drums - a bit like old metal (Metallica, Anthrax etc), but with hip-hop and dance rhythms, and often with rapped vocals. No guitar solos.

The fashion Multiple piercing, sometimes with chains. Tattoos and bodypaint. Baggy shorts. Trainers. No leather, spandex or long hair.

The influences Nu metal fans are generally unaware that music existed before 1991. Their Beatles are Nirvana, Rage Against the Machine, Red Hot Chilli Peppers and Eminem.

The lyrics Angst-ridden and filled with doom and bitterness. Lots of swearing and generalised swipes at the 'system'. Very little sex, no satanism.

http://mabsonenterprises.bandcamp.com/album/nu-metal

I know this is about a day late or so, but RIP Wayne Static.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ej0iEeajuo

http://decibelmagazine.com/blog/2015/8/13/they-did-it-all-for-the-nookie-decibel-explores-the-rise-and-fall-of-nu-metal

enjoyed reading that.

have picked several albums by bands mentioned from the cheaper than cheap bins in recent times .. I have no shame.

you really haven't

maybe you need to try this article by an ilxor http://www.theguardian.com/music/2015/aug/14/heavy-metal-thrash-1985-defining-year-metallica-anthrax-slayer

that piece caused me to revisit chocolate starfish for the first time in years. terrible record

my wife is out of town so it's been my opportunity to listen to horrible music on youtube loudly. the other night i listened to korn "twist" acapella and "loco" by coal chamber. heady times.

oh yeah i also listened to coal chamber for the first time yesterday. they were never any good right

they were awful

me loco

also it was nice to remember machine head's nu-metal cash-in record. i looooved "from this day" when it came out

haha that was a really bad album but I think most of the hate for it came much later? (roots was hated by old sepultura fans though from the off)

maybe? i remember it being the first time i encountered a lot of anti-nu-metal sentiment. when i looked up that record online it was just one star amazon reviews about betrayal

roots is a great album however

also found it weird that the piece tried to assess a year that nu-metal died, when it really just evolved into mope rock to survive (staind, mudvayne, etc.)

The late 90s were dark years thanks to nu-metal and britpop. Im still staggered at how mainstream nu-metal was in the UK. Heavy rock/metal had never in its history been as big as nu metal was. This stuff got played on daytime radio that wasnt just radio 1. Commercial radio loved limp bizkit and linkin park. Nirvana , Pearl Jam etc didnt get that

weirdly the 12 year olds wearing slipknot/korn/linkin park hoodies has now been replaced by 12 year olds wearing nirvana and stone roses hoodies.

spent a minute on their wiki and now i know that staind recorded a self-titled album in 2011 that was intended as a return to their roots i.e. a return to nu-metal, and featured this as a bonus track

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqXiSCtXdFo

i also listened to the unquestionable truth part 1 and that was actually....pretty ok? like, serious, political, occasionally psychedelic limp bizkit sounds horrible in theory but in practice it's prob their best stuff. damning with faint praise there i know

just kind of wish durst would make an album of "re-arranged"s but i doubt he's capable

I never heard much nu metal on the radio in britain tbh. Maybe limp bizkit when they were charting. But like was Chris moyles spinning lots of nu metal? No.

we had some good times with the unquestionable truth once: THE UNQUESIONABLE TRUTH - PART ONE by Limp Bizkit

omg that thread

dudes were basically trying to reduce their sound to RATM + Deftones, hoping people would stop throwing things at them if they did. i think i put "the priest" and maybe one other track on my Limp Bestkit cd-r. i think the singles off significant other (and "no sex") are their best work, but chocolate starfish is still my fave for featuring fred at his most fred

anyway something that always occurs to me whenever i decide to listen to a limp bizkit record is rivers/otto is a really wonderful rhythm section and it's a shame they and borland are in this particular band

PAY ME NO MIND
I SEEN FIGHT CLUB
ABOUT 28 TIMES

yeah significant other functions really well as a pop album and chocolate starfish is the fred dürst experience

i lol whenever i remember that scott weiland is on both of those records

also in terms of the limp/korn collabs "nobody like you" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>(infinity)>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "all in the family," so significant other really came out ahead there

I never did hear that vanilla ice nu-metal album thankfully. I couldnt watch MTV or any of its equivalents though because of nu metal. (lol at mtv actually playing music back then)

my mates fave band was stuck mojo. They were so bad.

anyway something that always occurs to me whenever i decide to listen to a limp bizkit record is rivers/otto is a really wonderful rhythm section and it's a shame they and borland are in this particular band

― insufficiently familiar with xgau's work to comment intelligently (BradNelson), Friday, August 14, 2015 7:27 PM (22 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This is completely OTM, actually. Fred Durst is easily, quite comfortably the very worst thing about Limp Bizkit. They're actually a pretty good bunch of musicians overshadowed by just the worst, most dominant, talentless personality.

Or to put it another way, if Chocolate Starfish and the Hot Dog Flavoured Water was an instrumental album, I'd probably have no problems listening to it.

But really, with one or two exceptions, the vast majority of nu-metal is complete garbage, IMO.

taproot are still a band

i think the groove on this song is killer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tH4LWYFsyo

haha really? oh god. Then again so are coal chamber. this shite will never die will it? Nostalgia tours already

btw jim i imagine chris moyles had to play rollin by limp bizkit since it was an actual UK #1 single.

i remember hearing it on fucking radio clyde during the day. Something nirvana etc never achieved

Tantric is often categorized as post-grunge and is known for its emphasis on acoustic guitar, distorted electric guitar, and multi-layered vocal harmonies. However, due to their heaviness, the band also fit in well during the early 2000s peak of alternative and nu metal.

What you had in the mid-late nineties were an entire generation of kids hitting their teens who had grown up during the golden age of hip-hip, about 1980-1990. Those kids who grew up listening to NWA, Run DMC, Public Enemy and De La Soul picked up guitars and just played what felt right ...and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.
Preview Post Reply
Rey E 21 hours ago

Can we replace the whole article with this?

I like this nutshell summary.

but it wasnt like that.

what you had was a bunch of teens and late 20s people who saw korn and coal chamber selling loads of records and it was an easy sound to ape

most of them didn't even rap

http://www.nme.com/photos/30-nu-metal-bands-you-d-forgotten/321759

you got alient ant farm

ps sadly i do vaguely remember most of the bands mentioned in that there article

I guess as a golden era hip hop fan who liked noisy guitars, I saw it as per that post.
at the time I didn't get any of it, as I was becoming a DAD, however, as I said, over the years I have picked up stuff from the cheap bins, and with a distance and disconnection to the actual scene, I can listen and enjoy.

admittedly normally when under the influence of booze.

but it wasnt like that.

i mean, it was, at least for korn, limp bizkit, deftones, etc. waves of nu-metal after that are both more explicitly cash-grabs and more difficult to parse.

there's a ton of overlap re: post-grunge and nu-metal (disturbed, mudvayne, taproot, nonpoint, etc.) so the distinction is kinda meaningless to me

dudes in california and florida who liked rap, helmet, and quicksand

btw jim i imagine chris moyles had to play rollin by limp bizkit since it was an actual UK #1 single.

― Cosmic Slop

well yes, but that was probably the only number 1 a nu metal act had in britain. other songs that charted of course would be played during the top 40, but there were not many of them. alien ant farm, system of a down, limp bizkit, probably linkin park, slipknot must've had something in the top 40. but no deftones, coal chamber, taproot, korn, static x, soulfly, machine head, disturbed, mudvayne etc. ever on commercial radio (other than ghettoized evening shows hosted by mary anne hobbes or whatevs).

i was at high school in the late 90s and listened to nu metal, it was deeply uncool and there were only a few kids in my year - out of a couple hundred kids, who listened to any of it - bar rollin or like alien ant farm's cover of smooth criminal.

i did like the piece identifying white pony as the end of nu-metal, bc i think seeing the "change (in the house of flies)" video on trl basically started the chain of events that led me to throw out my copy of significant other

"change" was like the weirdest song i had ever heard

xp
maybe all the nu metal fans went to the grammar cuz the town centre was full of kids into it

on some level isn't nu-metal just "funk-metal" that got deferred from its rise until it could adapt to post-seattle concepts of cool?

i got into korn bc the dudes i considered "cool" in my middle school were into them. they were impressed i bought follow the leader. they were less impressed that my enthusiasm continued into issues

i'm the only person that thinks this but issues is a great album imo

ok ok, I like the korn dubstep album.

there I said it.

full disclosure :

never heard the bands debut/follow up etc, I picked up 'untouchables' cheap, wasn't overly impressed.
got the brilliantly packaged limited 2 cd edition of 'see you on the other side..' via promo mailouts, and preferred the remixes on the extra disc.

lol you and whiney both like that record. i thought it was pretty interesting though i always prefer korn when they're beholden to shifts in pop (e.g. the see you on the other side singles are so fun)

yeah, that whiney thread was what made me drop the cash when it got to a level I was happy with.

(same goes for the LP thread he started about their 'minutes to midnight' album - which I have to say brad, you would love - seriously !)

I think someone once described Limp Bizkit as the '90s version of Motley Crue, and that's totally accurate. it was really a fun, fun time for little pre-teenage divorced parents me to get into music and there they were... the supposed antithesis to Britney Spears.

someone's probably already mentioned it in the this thread but listening with fresh ears now has made me realize how into "dynamics" these guys were. i bet Fred Durst had some Chokebore in his diamond plated CD collection

kidding about the Chokebore thing

...but maybe Tweez?

i hate minutes to midnight. a thousand suns is incredible though

the Mötley Crüe analogy doesn't work imo bc too fast for love and shout at the devil are classics and limp never made a good album

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEY1nRJx9v8

i hate minutes to midnight. a thousand suns is incredible though

doh !
that's the one I meant .. and yeah, I agree 'a thousand suns' is really good,

It's a nice writeup this Decibel article, but I'm not really seeing this angle of nu-metal replacing/threatening "real metal" - at the time, Korn, Limp Bizkit, System Of A Down, Deftones, etc felt a direct continuation of the hardcore-continuum, the next iteration of the stuff that was popular just before: Dog Eat Dog, Biohazard, Clawfinger, Rage Against The Machine. Groove riffs with the occasional rapping. I mean, a few metal bands like Sepultura and Slayer did jump on that bandwagon a bit, but not anymore than Pantera and Sepultura did with this earlier trend. It mostly coexisted with metal in different worlds, just like hair metal did with thrash metal earlier.

The late ’90s were one of the most barren musical times in my lifetime,” Gehret says. “As a metal fan, to me, everything that could go wrong did.”

http://www.invisibleoranges.com/2012/10/korn%E2%80%99s-debut-turns-18/

think Gehret's opinion is kind of tunnel vision. Some long-established bands (ie Kreator, Megadeth, etc) started releasing stinkers that seemed to indicate a permanent decline, but the late 90s were when I first got into metal and there was no shortage of quality releases. I put myself several thousand dollars in debt on a credit card acquiring lots of them. Hypocrisy's "The Final Chapter", Immolation's "Failures for Gods", Testament's "The Gathering", Death's "The Sound of Perseverance", Cryptopsy's "Whisper Supremacy", and Meshuggah's "Chaosphere" were some of my earliest metal purchases.

re: nu-metal, I never understood the "nu-metal and metal cannot co-exist" line that got flung around by the Manowarriors-in-training. I mean, I hated nu-metal, and yes, some of the more commercial viable bands jumped on that bandwagon, but everybody else kind of continued on as they were. That statement was probably a byproduct of the hypocrisy of many metal fans - those that thrived on the scene's underground, outcast nature while simultaneously bitching that their favorite bands should have more commercial success/exposure than those that had it.

the other thing I hated was the other front that tr00 metalheads attacked on, which was musicianship. nu-metal was inferior, naturally, because they didn't have the musical chops that tr00 metal bands had. y'know, ignoring the fact that Sodom's Obsessed by Cruelty is worshiped in many circles and is one of the sloppiest metal albums ever, or that Slayer, while being entertaining, are as devoid of actual musical theory as you can get.

half the time they were conflating musicianship with the ability to sweep arpeggios on command anyway.

always thought it was funny that the 90's was SUCH an amazing time to be a rap fan AND a metal fan and when these dudes combined the two.......poop. definitely not a chocolate + peanut butter kinda thing. i mean rap and metal got me through the 90's for real. i hated that decade for the most part.

also like the exception they made for slipknot in that decibel thing. they hit the nail on the head there. probably the only nu-metal band i have ever enjoyed. but they were a cut above in many ways.

oh and the other part of the decibel thing that stuck out was the dude saying when you went backstage the nu-metal bands were playing rap and metal and new wave like it was a brave new world when the sad thing was those bands got it ALL wrong. they were bad at metal and making beats and being goth/scary. to make things easy for myself, i just blame anthrax, pantera, and ministry for it all. and faith no more, i guess. and out of them i really only liked ministry. (and you can throw trent in there too via ministry. honestly, executive slacks should have been huge in this country. they were just a little too early...)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NXPRoiIvzk

i got into korn bc the dudes i considered "cool" in my middle school were into them. they were impressed i bought follow the leader. they were less impressed that my enthusiasm continued into issues

i'm the only person that thinks this but issues is a great album imo

― insufficiently familiar with xgau's work to comment intelligently (BradNelson), Friday, 14 August 2015 21:09 (3 days ago) Permalink

you're alright, man

I hesitated to watch the Metal Evolution episode for Nu-Metal the other night because the double whammy of the look and sound is something I don't need to deal with in online articles and commentary. But predictably enough it was good and they all seemed like nice guys. I really felt sorry for Durst when he was talking about the Woodstock when he thought everything was going great and it was the best day of his life but he was initially unaware of all the violence going on.

thats bullshit though he commented on the guys who broke up things and were crowdsurfing on the wood

i feel like fred gave himself all the sympathy he needs re: woodstock with the "re-arranged" video

the Korn debut is 21 this year, all grown up

btw did metalheads always complain that nu-metal was to 'easy' to play and 'dumbed down' (sepultura got accused of dumbing down too) ?
Solos did seem to go out of fashion when nu metal hit. Even grunge bands did solos (just not wanky ones)

re: the influence of older kids

i remember talking to the ones at the back of the school bus circa 1999, maybe about Nirvana, and them saying "that band was corporate, preppies listen to them" all whilst expunging on the values of Korn

Ha, this is the same Korn who were being distributed by Sony at the time, right?

it was kids tho.

grunge was hopelessly unfashionable by the turn of the millennium, right?

because that's all i remember hearing as a now early twenties male.

"he blew his brains out!! ehehe"

Nah, I wouldn't have said so - I knew a lot of people that were listening to stuff like Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, Faith No More, Red Hot Chili Peppers, and pop-punk stuff alongside nu-metal stuff. How I remember it is that the popularity in nu-metal was just one part of a general resurgence in people listening to American alternative rock.

that makes sense.

i went to a highly redneck populated school so their opinion was probably vastly inferior. the real cool kids (my summer camp counselors) were probably digging on the Dismemberment Plan or something

which was also part of the zeitgeist at the time though way less commercially acknowledged

I think the alternative rock thing was right as long as it 'Rocked' enough. Being into REM or someone similar was v different imo

Oh yeah, I'd definitely agree with that!

Also, I seem to remember a few people getting into ska-punk bands at that time. Argh.

Goldfinger CD's were definitely getting swapped around

Less Than Jake
Reel Big Fish
MIghty Mighty Boss *gvorpreeeeeeetch*

At-The Drive In got way popular with Tool fan bong enthusiasts

(maybe a little bit later than the general timeline going on here?)

2005 or something

Tool for some reason received a free pass through all of it...first the grunge band it was ok to like, then the nu-metal band it was ok to like, and then the prog/post-metal band it was ok to like.

i pretty consistently didn't like them. no matter what people called them.

At-The Drive In got way popular with Tool fan bong enthusiasts

(maybe a little bit later than the general timeline going on here?)

2005 or something

― hackshaw

at the drive in wasn't nu metal, and broke up in 2001.

don't think tool really fit in with nu metal either

Think we went over this a little bit before but I'm surprised Emo (Fallout Boy, My Chemical Romance, Panic At The Disco) isn't mentioned often as part of the nu-metal legacy. But I've heard extremely little emo so maybe it really isn't that similar sound-wise but the audience always seemed similar to me, but definitely less macho.

I do remember people who enjoyed nu-metal getting into At The Drive-In and Tool at the time, though. I remember Lateralus being a big album with lovers of nu-metal back then, especially the folks that enjoyed White Pony.

oh I was into nu metal and atdi and my friends were into tool, and they were covered in the same magazines etc. but if you were to put on korn, limp bizkit, coal chamber, and either atdi or tool you would see that one of those bands is not like the other.

although atdi did have their big album produced - horribly - by king of nu metal himself ross robinson.

Think we went over this a little bit before but I'm surprised Emo (Fallout Boy, My Chemical Romance, Panic At The Disco) isn't mentioned often as part of the nu-metal legacy. But I've heard extremely little emo so maybe it really isn't that similar sound-wise but the audience always seemed similar to me, but definitely less macho.

yeah nah. i guess both evolved from hardcore technically (everything evolved from hardcore) but there's no crossover, i don't even think the audiences are that similar bc there are way more women in emo fandom

oh I was into nu metal and atdi and my friends were into tool, and they were covered in the same magazines etc. but if you were to put on korn, limp bizkit, coal chamber, and either atdi or tool you would see that one of those bands is not like the other.

― corbyn's gallus (jim in glasgow), Tuesday, August 18, 2015 5:55 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I agree, but there was definitely some crossover with the audiences, with Korn fans getting into ATD-I and/or Tool etc.

but I'm surprised Emo (Fallout Boy, My Chemical Romance, Panic At The Disco) isn't mentioned often as part of the nu-metal legacy.

would it be true to suggest that "a day to remember" seem to cross this line i.e. emo + some nu-metal tendencies.

I always saw the Fall Out Boy/My Chemical Romance/Panic At The Disco crop as something distinct that came afterwards.

I know they were different types of bands but it seemed to me that Linkin Park, Marilyn Manson, Evanesence and a few other bands (and the persisting popularity of Nirvana and Nine Inch Nails) maybe built a wider young female audience that emo benefited from?

would it be true to suggest that "a day to remember" seem to cross this line i.e. emo + some nu-metal tendencies.

again this is a tangential hardcore development. some metalcore bands prob have nu-metal influences but the nu-metal tendencies ppl identify have usually always been a part of metalcore

hmmmmm robert you may have something there, at least since (anecdotally) iirc linkin park and evanescence fandom translated really easily to crossover emo fandom

Linkin Park's Hybrid Theory to me was nu-metal tropes taken to some kind of logical, palatable pop conclusion.

i'm not knocking At-The Drive In at all btw

they are significantly cooler than a majority of the bands mentioned in this thread and maybe a logical extension for ex nu-metal fans who grew up a bit

The Mars Volta on the other hand.

*barf*

xxpost:

I mean, I don't think there's a single instance of profanity on Hybrid Theory... there's a moment in one of the tracks where Chester Bennington is all like "You... tried to take the best of me... GO AWAY!" which in the hands of any other nu-metal band woulda been "You... tried to take the best of me, SO FUCK OFF! COCKSUCKER! RRRRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAWWWWRRRRRR! FUCK OFF! GET THE FUCK OUT! AAAAAHHHHRRRRRR! AAAAAAAHHHHHRRRRR!"

The Mars Volta were also a logical extension for "ex nu-metal fans who grew up a bit"... it wasn't difficult to see fans of Lateralus going for De-Loused and some did.

Hey there's a reason the Mars Volta opened for A Perfect Circle on their Thirteenth Step tour.

Tbf all of these trends were punk/hardcore offshoots one way or another - grunge through Melvins/Dinosaur Jr, then the Biohazard/RATM/Clawfinger/Dog Eat Dog era, nu-metal, "postmetal" or post-hardcore, emo, screamo, crunk-core, metalcore, crabcore.

crabcore was my ticket into becoming a complete anglophile indie kid

game over

brad mentioned helmet but to me they are aside from FNM probably the biggest influence on all this stuff, maybe throw in Prong, but a certain post-hardcore, mathy, downtuned hyper precise riffing language that i think you see in most nu-metal

Sometimes I wonder if post-punk guitarists were a bit of an influence on some nu-metal bands.

nu metal bands all seemed to love the cure, depeche mode et al

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUebkluEZng

also lol ross robinson produced the self-titled cure record from 2004

nu metal bands all seemed to love the cure, depeche mode et al

― Cosmic Slop, Tuesday, August 18, 2015 8:19 PM (33 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yeah, I knew about that... I was thinking more of the dissonant side of it, like the stuff Keith Levene was doing in PiL.

I mean, the way that Korn's guitarists sometimes do that thing where it sounds like the buzzing of a hive full of angry bees sounds quite post-punky to me for some reason.

Quite surprised when I found out Robinson had produced Wild Throne (formerly Dog Shredder) and a bunch of other stuff unlike most of his work.

I mean, the way that Korn's guitarists sometimes do that thing where it sounds like the buzzing of a hive full of angry bees sounds quite post-punky to me for some reason.

great observation imo

Seems more likely that comes from Paige Hamilton rather than PIL

and page comes from glenn branca?

woah now, let's leave Glenn Branca out of this please.

it was more Primus (and wacky AmRep bands) than PiL in regards to this sound

Yes Paige Hamilton the leader of wacky Am Rep band Helmet

Helmet, of course, but the connection to Branca is purely coincidental.

but i guess there's that picture on the internet of Fred Durst wearing a Sonic Youth shirt so what the fuck do i know.

first show i ever went to was korn supported by limp bizkit and helmet lol

fred durst has professed his love for joy division, the smiths, sonic youth etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHXdw8WJFJM

my mate kev was at that gig. He came away a helmet fan and went off limp bizkit and borrowed all my helmet cds just before the gig.
xp

I think I saved him

someone sang "Break Stuff" at karaoke last night.

there are pieces of him floating in the Atlantic ocean now

break stuff and nookie are great karaoke songs

"Korn was keeping alive the flame of no wave."
That claim is a steaming platter of freshly squeezed crap.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, December 19, 2002 5:05 PM (12 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

So did we reasses nu-metal? AFAIK its status is still "really shitty."

and it always will be

I dunno, those first two System Of A Down albums seem to have held up quite well.

yeah I still like spinning those. most of their catalog really tho later stuff was closer to legit metal

I dunno, SOAD to me had a distasteful "Think we're nu-metal? Wait until you hear THIS" element to them which I found repugnant.

I mean, ffs, they're called 'System Of A Down' for christ's sake. Down they go with the rest of them.

lol they were a great band sorry

http://www.nme.com/blogs/festivals-blog/limp-bizkit-in-2015-could-be-tragic-instead-its-a-whole-lot-of-fun

it is happening.

I actually watched this live set on catch up, and it was scary as to how young the crowd were, and how much they knew the songs !

I thought the crowd would be a bunch of grey hairs reliving their nu-metal glory days, but no, the band have clearly connected with a new audience.

oh, and fred was genuinely funny, self deprecating and kind of cool, while the band sounded fucking brilliant.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2017/may/09/20-years-nu-metal-rap-rock-korn-kerrang

I quickly flipped through Sylvia Massy's book about a year ago and have been meaning to give it more thorough read. There's a part where she describes the proper way to mic a singer who's hanging upside down, referring to something she did with Serj from System Of A Down. There's also this "How To Shoot A Piano" diagram that refers to a gunshot noise used as percussion in Tool's "Disgustipated."

http://i.imgur.com/KKJEXCM.jpg

Never heard of that book before but it sounds fascinating.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izePLzAbc40

extremely about this

i could probably go for this if it didnt have the screaming

add Static-X to the list of nu-metal bands I like? I guess it goes to show you I just really like industrial, but of all of the tics of nu-metal riff-styles I didn't like, I think it played to its strengths here.

basing this only on Wisconsin Death Trip, which I had an enjoyable listen to today.

so while i don't think the band deserved to be lumped into the nu-metal genre at the time but circumstances...

2nd orgy album >>>> 1st orgy album

it's true

The first two Static-X albums and Cannibal are really good. There's one other good one, and one really bad one, in their catalog, but I can't remember whether Shadow Zone or Start a War is the one that sucks (because they're trying really, really hard to be Korn instead of just being their swap-meet Ministry selves).

southtown came up on shuffle and it still rips
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWl9tjO7KtA

otm