Songs with the sus4-triad-sus2-triad Figure

The Byrds - "Feel a Whole Lot Better"
The Beatles - "If I Needed Someone"
Led Zeppelin - "Stairway to Heaven"

There have to be multiple REM examples, right? (Tim?)

(e.g. Dsus4 - D - Dsus2 - D or Asus4 - A - Asus2 - A)

It seems like the single most obvious thing to do on a D chord but I can't think of as many examples offhand as I expected to be able to.

Does the ending of 'Lazy Sunday' by Small Faces qualify for this? I'll have to give it another listen, but it sounds like one.

I'm gonna guess "Substitute" has this, but I'm too far away from a guitar right now to be certain.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFvLNsrqrrA

the verse of fleetwood mac's "go your own way"?

I've got my thinking cap on, but all the examples I seem to be thinking of are triad-sus2-sus4-triad(!)

There have to be multiple REM examples, right? (Tim?)

― EveningStar (Sund4r), Friday, July 19, 2013 3:07 PM (16 minutes ago)

"Pretty Persuasion" for sure.

Yeah, I think 'Pretty Persuasion' has one in the verses.

There's several songs by The Jam that feature a lot of this type of stuff, too.

the who "so sad about us" (speaking of the jam!)

I'm gonna guess "Substitute" has this, but I'm too far away from a guitar right now to be certain.

― Esperanto, why don't you come to your senses? (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Friday, July 19, 2013 10:25 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I'd expect there to be quite a few Who songs that do this (suspended chords kinda being one of Townshend's trademarks), although I'm really struggling to think of any examples at the mo!

the who "so sad about us" (speaking of the jam!)

― fact checking cuz, Friday, July 19, 2013 10:33 PM (30 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Bingo!

probably a million tom petty songs, but like turrican i'm struggling to find one that has them in the specified order.

probably a million '70s power pop songs (throw in a major 7th chord too)

...not to mention a million '80s, '90s, '00s and '10s power pop songs.

xxxpost:

Weller even snuck a bit of the 'So Sad About Us' riff into 'It's Too Bad' (along with the 'break up'/'make up' rhyme), so there's that one as well.

The intro to 'Woman' by John Lennon?

Some song about the "Best Ever Death Metal Band in Denton" iirc

triad-sus2-sus4-triad(!)

triad-sus2-sus4-sus2-triad-sus2 = Belly - "Gepetto"
(also iirc, long time since I touched a guitar, but that was where I learnt this 1 weird trick)

"Heyyyyy you've got to hiiiide your love awaayyyyy" - sus4-triad-sus2-triad

Tom Petty - Free Fallin' (triad, sus4, sus4, triad, sus 2)

You'll usually find that unless they're using some kind of alt. tuning or using a capo, most of the guitar-written songs with this figure will either be on D or A.

The Kinks - A Long Way From Home

The Byrds - "Feel a Whole Lot Better"
The Beatles - "If I Needed Someone"
Led Zeppelin - "Stairway to Heaven"

There must be some early U2 tracks that do this, Electric Co maybe?

First one is the one I always think of. As far as the second one, I believe another Beatle George song, "I Need You" from Help! also has this.
― Orpheus in Hull (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, July 19, 2013 11:06 PM (16 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

'I Need You' goes sus2-triad-sus4-triad

Sorry, triad-sus2-sus4-triad, rather.

Oh shit, now I know what that progression is! 99% sure the Who's "Pure and Easy" qualifies (per Turrican -- Townshend did use a shitload of suspended chords).

Otm. "Pinball Wizard" has sus4 chord, I think, but don't think it has this exact lick. Yeah, wasn't sure about "I Need You," was posting on zing from subway.

probably a million tom petty songs, but like turrican i'm struggling to find one that has them in the specified order.

― fact checking cuz, Friday, July 19, 2013 6:34 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Pretty sure even the first examples don't have them in the specified order. At least not The Byrds - that's triad-sus2-triad-sus4-triad-sus2-triad.

I mean I guess if you're not taking the whole phrase into consideration, then it has it on the back half.

Anyway, "Happy Xmas (War Is Over)" by John Lennon and "Allison Road" by Gin Blossoms.

"Needles and Pins" except it's in A, not D. Same suspensions, though.

There's more than one answer to this question, pointing me in a crooked line. And the less I search my source for some definitive...

The only other R.E.M. one I'm thinking of is "7 Chinese Brothers," which has that whole D riff. Right before the change to the chorus, it goes triad-sus4-triad-sus2-triad.

Pretty sure even the first examples don't have them in the specified order. At least not The Byrds - that's triad-sus2-triad-sus4-triad-sus2-triad.

How does that not count as including this figure?? All three songs I listed contain these chords in this order, regardless of whatever other chords may also be present.

Those are perfect REM examples, thanks.

OK, wow, "So Sad About Us": that's textbook!

"Woman" is interesting because: i) it's in Eb and ii) it does this but varies the melody a little by going ^4 -^3 -^2 -^1 -^2 -^3 instead of ^4 -^3 -^2-^3. It's also a case where he holds the chords, extending this into a 2-bar strumming pattern instead of strumming each chord once.

xxxp my initial understanding was that you were looking for songs where the whole phrase/hook was the pattern, not just chord progressions that contain it at some point. My mistake.

"Carnival of Sorts" on A in the chorus, but I think he's just playing the notes (4-3-2-1).

It's all good. Maybe it was unclear.

A lot of great examples so far. I should look for art music antecedents. It seems like really straightforward neighbour-note motion but an example isn't jumping to mind immediately, probably because my head has not been in a classical place recently.

xpost

I guess that's the thing: if one just looks for the neighbour-note pattern over the implied harmony (like in "Carnival of Sorts" - possibly my favourite REM song btw), it's probably there all over the place. However, "sus4-triad-sus2-triad" implies that a full chord is stated each time, as it is in most of these songs. And that's probably much rarer in common practice music.

I was sure I remembered Frank Zappa saying something about this in 'The Real Frank Zappa Book" and yes, I knew I could rely on some Zappa obsessive somewhere on the net to have quoted it, so I didn't have to go and dig the damn thing from the back of the bookcase...

"Musically, the northern bands had a little more country style. In L.A., it was folk-rock to death. Everything had that fucking D chord down at the bottom of the neck where you wiggle your finger around—like "Needles and Pins."

Ha. Although I also remember reading somewhere him saying that the ii-V7-I progression should be outlawed.

That reminds me that some bands did this on "Hey Joe." The Love version, for example.

I don't think "Stairway to Heaven" does this, actually, although it goes Dsus4-D all the time. "Tangerine" is the one with this figure.

'Show Me The Way' by Small Faces?

Although you have to wait until about 1:29 to hear it.

Interesting: apparently, Jackie deShannon's version of "Needles and Pins" was only a hit in Canada, at least according to Wikipedia.

Well-spotted re that Small Faces song!

The intro to Tell Me by the Rolling Stones does this.

In B too! Good one.

Sund4r this is one of the most common movements in pop music! I think it's featured in every Zep song with an acoustic. The riff of "Friends" changes it up by adding a sus#4. "Kashmir" adds a susb2. I'd need to sit down with the records but iirc it's what Page's hand is always doing.

I have always liked the descending sus4 to sus3 pattern in "River Man". A (C#) - a (C) - gsus4 (C) - g (Bb) - Fsus4 (Bb) - F (A) - A (A). Change a few notes and you've got the final hook in "Closer". Or the breakdown in "Kashmir".

Yeah, I thought I'd be able to name half a dozen Zep songs that do this right off the bat but "Tangerine" is the only one that came to mind that does exactly this. I'm sure there are probably more if I sit down with the records.

Husker Du's "Ice Cold Ice" doesn't do this but, interestingly, does the same sort of neighbour motion over ^5 (^6-^5-^4-^5) on a power chord in its pre-chorus.

"... I could probably find more if I sat..."

"... on ^5 over a power chord ..."

Also, except for REM and the Gin Blossoms, nearly all the examples here are from 1963-1975. The two REM examples are from 1984. What's the most recent song to feature this? Would we have to look to country radio?

I think I heard they were discussing exactly this on the Rolling Country thread, although when I tried to load it my browser broke so I can't be sure.

Oh, duh, Zep's "Thank You"

Indigo Girls--Closer To Fine

I sincerely, sincerely doubt it. I bet you could find it in every song by a Mumford a Monsters & Men or a Lumineer but I am not going to check for you.

I am posting snippier today than I mean to be :p

The main piano riff in "Someone like you" by Adele

Which is the same melody as "Paint it, Black"

Yeah, maybe it's just that none of us listen to the contemporary bands who do this.

(Man, Plant's voice on II.)

xposts

I don't see it in the Adele song? It's in A and the progression in the main piano figure is A-C#/G#-F#m-D, I think, with the highest voice moving from E to F#?

C#m/G#, that should be

unless it's Amaj7/G#

(Man, Plant's voice on II.)

(was still really powerful and full-bodied was what I meant, to digress. I wish he still sang like that when Page's end of things got really great on IV/HotH/PG.)

OK, back on track now

Whoop, you're right about Adele. In my head I was confusing the piano intro with that of Jewel's "Foolish Games"

Funny, I have a little riff I made up with this a few years ago (in D) and I've been trying to figure out which song I stole it from. But I think it's not so much that I stole as it sounds like a lot of other things. It's for sure one of the easiest things a novice guitarist can do to sound like they know something.

Oh, that's the first example someone's given of this in a minor key!
xpost

Hm, I was honestly just shooting the shit when I started this thread but I'm starting to wonder if there's a paper to be written here. ILX would get any due credit if I ever actually write something, obv.

Ha, I'm listening to Wilco and "One Sunday Morning (Song for Jane Smiley's Boyfriend)" does this in F with a ^4-^3-^2-^1 line in the highest voice (^2-^3-^4-^3-^2-^1 if you consider the whole riff).

I don't know if that actually counts as suspended chords though because he's basically just playing that melodic line with the harmony being implied.

"wicked little town" from "hedwig and the angry inch"

(which makes two of these that the breeders covered, along with "so sad about us.")

Probably too easy to just find examples ^4-^3-^2-^1 over the tonic in the bass, although there's no real functional difference.

the other one guitarist/songwriters like a lot is descending from the major triad, to major seventh to dominant seventh chord, e.g. the verse in strawberry fields forever or Something (which also features the rarer minor chord version)

the other one guitarist/songwriters like a lot is descending from the major triad, to major seventh to dominant seventh chord, e.g. the verse in strawberry fields forever or Something (which also features the rarer minor chord version)

― Dr X O'Skeleton, Sunday, July 21, 2013 7:54 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Fucking hell, it's like you just read my mind... was just thinking this!

I call it the 'Can't Take My Eyes Off You' progression because that's where I first remember hearing it.

I don't think "Stairway to Heaven" does this

No, but a sus2-triad-sus4 progression is used in the breakdown before the solo.

"Here's Where You Belong" by The West Coast Pop Art Experimental Band http://youtu.be/-AXjkHuYxXA

Hmmmmm. I dunno, Sund4r, this is too common a musical device to really derive any interesting conclusions, imo.

Tend to agree with with that. Sorry, Sund4r.

You're probably right. I like to feel like I'm not just wasting time though.

Talking about wasting time, I once figured out how to play the So Sad About Us progression in G so I could put in the truck driver key change up to A

Me I'm interested in songs that have changeable 4ths. #4 on the verses, then hit a solid IV-chord on the choruses. Most on-the-nose example is Grizzly Bear "Two Weeks". Or chorus of "This guy's in love with you", where the introduction of the #4 (as a secondary dominant) feels like the sun coming out. Or XTC "Travels in Nihilon", where it sounds like the end of the world.

I think You Can't Put Your Arms Around A Memory by Johnny Thunders does this.

This being the thread title, not flamboyant goon tie included's example.

I was sure I remembered Frank Zappa saying something about this in 'The Real Frank Zappa Book" and yes, I knew I could rely on some Zappa obsessive somewhere on the net to have quoted it, so I didn't have to go and dig the damn thing from the back of the bookcase...

Doesn't he do it, as a poke at folk rock, on a song on "We're Only In It For the Money"? Possibly "Flower Punk"? I'd have to check, but the the inspiration might well be this:

That reminds me that some bands did this on "Hey Joe." The Love version, for example.

the other one guitarist/songwriters like a lot is descending from the major triad, to major seventh to dominant seventh chord, e.g. the verse in strawberry fields forever or Something (which also features the rarer minor chord version)

― Dr X O'Skeleton, Sunday, July 21, 2013 7:54 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Fucking hell, it's like you just read my mind... was just thinking this!

Or a variation of that, Em - Em/M7 - Em7 - Em6, eg the "bossa nova" sections of the Beatles' "I Want You (She's So Heavy)." Aimee Mann uses this one a lot.

Brass in Pocket
All I want is you

"Brass in Pocket" is triad-sus2-sus4-triad.

On one listen, I think the figure in "All I Want Is You" is more just vacillation between the triad and sus2 before the root itself changes.

REM - "Half A World Away" (I think... might be triad-sus4-triad-sus2 though?)

Patience - GnR

John Lennon - "Woman" (the intro) first example that pops into my head. And yes, this chord pattern does seem more rare in songs from the last 15 years or so, at least in pop-oriented stuff.

"Carnival of Sorts" on A in the chorus, but I think he's just playing the notes (4-3-2-1).

ditto -- in a much more pronounced way -- on the A turnaround between the chorus and verse of "don't go back to rockville."

"Money Changes Everything" has this, I believe. Also Beefheart's "Call On Me" and several songs by the Beau Brummels ("Sad Little Girl", "I Want You", "Don't Talk To Strangers", maybe more.)

The Beatles - "Anytime at All" (after the chorus)

"American Pie"

The Doors "Love Street" in a little turn before it modulates at 2:08.

The "hold on" section of the bridge in "Ballad of El Goodo" is written around this, including the vocal melody. Nice to run into our old friend in an essential, rather than embellishing, role.

Wire, "French Film Blurred"

Following the line, "On the day the vibrations will shake your bones".

opening day, that is

'VCR' by the XX does this around the C triad on all the verses.

Velvet Underground, "I'm Set Free".

Surprised The Beatles - "You've Got To Hide Your Love Away" hasn't been mentioned.

Also I think Pearl Jam - "Down" qualifies.

sugar "if i can't change your mind" (on the C triad on intro and verses)

It comes up in Taylor Swift's "I'm Only Me When I'm With You" here, which has to be one of the most recent appearances in a popular song.

I'm surprised "Hide Your Love Away" didn't come up earlier too! "Love Street" and Sugar = good catches.

The "hold on" section of the bridge in "Ballad of El Goodo" is written around this, including the vocal melody. Nice to run into our old friend in an essential, rather than embellishing, role.

Wow, good one.

I haven't listened to the third VU album in a long time. I forgot about this one.

We missed "Shaking Through" in the R.E.M. accounting!

David Bowie - "Kooks" almost does this but just D to Dsus4

Bruce Springsteen - Brilliant Disguise

The Monkees - You Told Me

Blue Rodeo - "Hasn't Hit Me Yet"

^^ good song recommended for non-Canadians btw

Also, I don't know how we missed Bon Jovi's "Wanted Dead or Alive".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrjKwYVL21g

Surely Roxette would have loads of this

I looked throughout our list
and I don't know how we missed

AMANDA

lol

What about the fact no one mentioned "Free Bird" ("...and this bird you cannot change")

The Monkees - "Tapioca Tundra"

Gustavo Cerati / Soda Stereo did this a lot.

top of my head "luna roja" which is pretty much just an A chord throughout that goes to Asus4 to Asus2 and back... I might be wrong but that's what it looks like to me.

https://youtu.be/BosH13cX4qg

Does 'Money Money Money' by ABBA do this in the 'in my dreams I have a plan' bit?

Also there is an obvious 70s soul golden oldie that also does it on like an A minor chord, but I can't quite tease the song out of the jumble of intractable knots that constitute my brain.

Ah wait, the mists have finally parted - I'm thinking of the intro to the Four Tops' Reach Out I'll be There (which is obv not from the 70s duh). Is that doing this thing?

Gloria Gaynor’s version was tho!

Both of those examples are clever! In both, the top voice falls 4-3-2-1 in a minor key, instead of going 4-3-2-3 in a major key, which is the cliché version, but they both absolutely meet the criteria of the question.

instead of going 4-3-2-3 in a major key, which is the cliché version

Monkees song totally does this.

On piano, the end of John Cale's "Child's Christmas in Wales"

Good one

Was the tape of that track sped up slightly? It seems ≈ a quarter-tone off from standard tuning?

The early 90s positive vibes thread reminded me:
Michael Jackson - Black or White

Surely Roxette would have loads of this

― Duke, Saturday, October 26, 2019 3:23 PM (one year ago) bookmarkflaglink

Wichita Lineman fits here.

Where are you thinking? I hear a lot of sus4 chords resolving to triads but not sure I hear the whole figure?

I think it's the acoustic guitar on the D major after "...overload" and "...stand the strain"?

I'm still not hearing the sus2 there, I don't think. Just sus4 and triad, like this guy demonstrates around 0:35
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWk-kz0mKjg

"Tapioca Tundra', The Monkees, I think.

Ugh, mismatched quotes.

it gives the song title an open feel while also being a triad of marks. well done.

Thanks. Seems to me like there is some kind of gravitational pull between the " and the T as well.

Three of these came to mind late one night:

Rolling Stones - "Mother's Little Helper" (last four notes of main riff, in E minor)
Rolling Stones - "Paint It, Black" (last four notes of main riff, over B major chord)
Barry Manilow - "Can't Smile Without You" (vocal melody of 2nd line of verse, over relative minor chord; there's also a descending chromatic harmony that may complicate things)

Pretenders - I’ll Stand by You
Pearl Jam - Immortality

People, we have neglected a classic of this genre. May I present:

"Little Girl" by the Syndicate of Sound!

Brian Jonestown massacre - monster

man I don't trust any guitarist who does this kind of thing - like if you take a chord and move the major third up a half step that's sus for sure, but if you move it down a whole step that's sus too!

Not sure if it’s already been mentioned but Sugar - If I Can’t Change Your Mind

There have to be multiple REM examples, right? (Tim?)

― EveningStar (Sund4r), Friday, July 19, 2013 3:07 PM (16 minutes ago)

"Camera" does D-Dsus4-D5-Dsus4-D-Dsus2 in the chorus ("Alone in a crowd...")

<3

Jimi Hendrix Experience - Burning of the Midnight Lamp

Led Zeppelin - Thank You

oops, i hadn't loaded all the messages. that's the obvious zeppelin one for me

man I don't trust any guitarist who does this kind of thing - like if you take a chord and move the major third up a half step that's sus for sure, but if you move it down a whole step that's sus too!

lol!

Jimi Hendrix Experience - Burning of the Midnight Lamp

True. It's interesting that he wrote this song on the keyboard, because I don't think of him playing the root-position guitar chords that lend themselves to this progression (the early-Byrds D chord stuff).

It must be less efficient to play those kind of chords when your guitar is strung upside down.

It was Albert King who played reverse-strung guitars. When Hendrix used a right-handed guitar, he flipped the nut so that it could be strung the usual way.

I've flipped my nut listening to Hendrix many a time.

And dick Dale

This explains why my "play Hendrix songs with a left-handed guitar" experiment went so terribly wrong.

Satellite of Love

I'm surprised this one hasn't been mentioned yet

Dion’s version of It’s All Over Now, Baby Blue

Foxygen - San Francisco (right before the chorus)

pulp - something changed (or is it just the sus4?)

gap dream - “go ahead”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbRqbJEaeMs