POLL Out and Away, Onehow - The Cocteau Twins voting thread !

http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/500/7157995/Cocteau+Twins.jpg

This is where we poll Cocteau Twins, one of my top three favorite bands ever, a gift to music from Scotland.

I'm asking for your Top 20 songs.

Ballot part one (mandatory): Your Top 20 Cocteau Twins tracks. The Moon and the Melodies is elligible as well as their contributions to This Mortal Coil, since they are basically CT songs.
Normal scoring: 1:40, 2:36, 3:33, 4:30, 5:28, 6:26, 7:25, 8:24, 9:23, 10:22, 11:21, 12:20, 13:19, 14:18, 15:17, 16:16, 17:15, 18:14, 19:13, 20:12.

Ballot part two (optional): Your Top 5 Cocteau Twins albums.

Ballot part three (optional): Your Top 5 Cocteau Twins EPs.

Ballot part four (optional): For some added fun, your Top 5 Cocteau Twins song titles. Not sure we'll get a concensus, but we'll see what comes out.

Send ballots to lerooleroo AT hotmail dot com. Please include your ILM user name.

Deadline for voting will be September 4th ETZ

YEAH

Cool!

yay!

hoo boy this is gonna be hard

woah. psyched.

My #1 has been my #1 since the first time I heard it. The other 19 will be the rough part.

I have no idea how I will chose only 20 songs.

Also, they are probably the ultimate band where you don't really know which song is called what.

Ditto

Here's a link to their Wikipedia discography which could be helpful: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocteau_Twins_discography

Already got one ballot !

Liz one-offs/collabs don't count unless Robin and/or Simon appear as well?

Yeah, although they are great, I feel like her songs with Massive Attack, Craig Armstrong, Future Sound of London, Felt, etc, are more representative of those bands' sound than Cocteau Twins.

Just like I wouldn't include Robin and Simon's solo albums in a CT poll, cause it's not CT without Liz.

Maybe we can do a Liz one-offs/collabs poll after this one is done ?

I am likely the only person seriously considering voting for the entirety of Garlands right

nah i think there's other Gothteau heads on here

I love Garlands, but not as much as their other post-punk work like Lullabies and Head Over Heels. I like the Garlands bonus tracks more than most of what made it onto the album.

I haven't dug too deeply into either of those but now I will!

I would recommend you also check out the Peppermint Pig EP and the Sunburst and Snowblind EP which came right between those two.

Has everybody seen this amazing Youtube clip of a "rock happening" in "new rock mecca" Colombus, Ohio in 1985 ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaOlNfC8_xQ

I fear my ballot will be Treasure and HOLV front to back.

Does TMC's "Another Day" count? Liz is the only Cocteau credited on that one.

wouldn't mind a judgement call on which TMC tracks qualify

possible all time fave
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iD0STDHNM8A

I just submitted a Top 10 ballot and that was my #1.

The whole EP this song comes from might be my favorite release from them.

wouldn't mind a judgement call on which TMC tracks qualify

― erry red flag (f. hazel), mercredi 28 août 2013 00:51 (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I was thinking "Sixteen Days/Gathering Dust" and "Song To The Siren". Or we could just cut TMC altogether from the poll. What are people's opinion on this?

No! Because I want to vote for one or both of those.

I'm in the process of discovering the Twins, so I can't wait for the discussion and results.

No! Because I want to vote for one or both of those.

― Ⓓⓡ. (Johnny Fever), mercredi 28 août 2013 02:31 (12 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

And I agree you should be able to. So "Sixteen Days/Gathering Dust" and "Song To The Siren" are the songs by This Mortal Coil that qualify.

Van Horn Street I envy you. Getting into Cocteau Twins is like entering a whole new universe. Lots of great discoveries ahead for you! (x-post)

I am in love with Heaven and Las Vegas already! Actually my father is a huge fan but for some reasons we never discussed it. The LPs are laying somewhere.

Albums are amazing, but it's also all about the EP's with them.

Is your name for the street in Montréal ?

I shall check out the EPs then.

and yes!

So "The Last Ray" or "Barramundi" are out?

T︵T at "Another Day" not being eligible, but yay at being able to pick another song to replace it.

They do sound a lot like CT instrumentals so if you want to vote for them go ahead. I'll include all This Mortal Coil collaborations, since all three members were part of the project. But I'd really rather not include the solo material that came after they disbanded and the guest vocals for other acts. (lol x-post)

everybody needs to watch that Columbus youtube upthread!

this band was my first true love of the new wave, I feel blessed to have had such richness in my life for 30 years.

One of the things I love about Barramundi is how when placed between the two Lisa Gerrard tracks on the album, you get this liminal sound between the Cocteau Twins and Dead Can Dance.

" I like the Garlands bonus tracks more than most of what made it onto the album."

I'm distressed because I didnt know Garlands used to have bonus tracks and I find out it has some stuff I dont have and cant be found easily on anything else. I thought if I got all the studio albums, Lullabies To Violane and Pink Opaque (for the essential "Millimillenary") that I would have all the songs (excepting alternate versions)!

But there was a bunch of odds and ends on the official website for adverts and things like that, nothing essential or memorable; I wouldnt consider the rare Dials EP essential either, I can barely remember those songs.

Looks like I'll need the Peel sessions disc. Is there any other loose ends?

"Crushed" from the Lonely Is An Eyesore comp, if that isn't on Lullabies to Violaine.

And "Dials" is a great song! I think the rest of that disc (from the singles box set) was just instrumental versions of stuff?

The Dials EP came from the Box Set and is essential if you don't have the 4AD sample compilation Lonely Is An Eyesore which contains the grandiose "Crushed".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wgv08gsexfc

I'll admit the other tracks aren't as essential. "Dials" is the B-Side to the "Heaven Or Las Vegas" single. "The High Monkey-Monk" was originally released on a NME compilation tape in 1990. And "Oomingmack" is an intrumental version of the Victorialand song that was used during the ending credits of the Lonely Is An Eyesore video compilation.
(x-post)

They also contributed a song to the Judge Dredd soundtrack called "Need-Fire".

And they released a Christmas EP called Snow which contains their versions of "Frosty The Snowman" and "Winter Wonderland" !

Also just found out about a song called "Touch Upon Touch".
http://www.ericr.nl/cocteaus/othertracks.html

But chances are I wont be crazy about these later tracks as Garlands era stuff.

HELLS yes this is gonna be fun. I need to revisit the post-HOLV material. Maybe some of it's more worthwhile than I remember?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_pW_-SQjZ4

Orange Appled <3 <3 <3

I had never heard of "Touch Upon Touch"! Nice description on that site:

Probably the last Cocteau track ever to be released (unless someone finds a long forgotten track lying on a shelf somewhere) Touch Upon Touch is mostly a soft and lovely ballad, but it has a few unexpected twists in it as well.

As so often Liz is the star of the show, her beautiful melodies dominating the first parts. Light percussion, and a few sparse guitar chords is all she gets for company. Vocal overdubs make for a stunningly gorgeous chorus, and for a long time it seems unlikely the song's serenity will be disturbed. And it would have been a great track even if the band would have left it at that.

But they didn't. As if the band were aware this was to be one of their final tracks they decided to dig deep once more. Suddenly there's an interlude with a heavy guitar. In fact it even appears to be played with a bit of distortion. Shades of Garlands! Liz reacts by switching into overdrive, and a prominent bass puts Simon into the limelight as well.

The louder episode is soon followed by a return to tranquility, although there are still a few more lovely guitar wails woven in. But everything ends in peace and harmony eventually, and with it so did their career as a threesome.

If the band would have proceeded to produce yet another album, would it have sounded like this? If so, what a treat it might have been. We'll never know of course. Still, Touch Upon Touch is a composition well worth filling the final page of the amazing Cocteau Twins book of songs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyyV6ts-BwI

"Orange Appled" is fantastic (x-post)

Just made my Spotify ballot narrowing-down playlist. It's at 30. Don't know which 10 to let go.

I feel your pain. I kind of hate myself for making it a Top 20 instead of a Top 30.

Oh yeah! I remember buying Splashed With Many a Speck to get that.

I'm distressed because I didnt know Garlands used to have bonus tracks and I find out it has some stuff I dont have and cant be found easily on anything else.

Albums used to be so short back then. Garlands only has 8 songs and runs for 32 minutes. They could've easily included "Dear heart", "Hazel", "Hearsay Please", and "Perhaps Some Other Aeon" in the original release. They fit in perfectly with the rest.

VO TED !

Touch upon TOuch was written for Faye Wong iirc, which is why it has that slightly cheesy chinese-pop sound to it.

I'm abstaining from this poll, i'm afraid. As much of a fan as y'all know I am, I dont feel like miring myself in poll land. I'm allergic.

I totally recommend finding "need-fire" and also the little bit of music they did for the Fruitopia ad, which is like 15 glorious seconds of wtf.

Other random trivia I kno: Liz reuses lyrics. There's a couple of lines at the end of "Fifty-Fifty Clown" that are re-sung in a different melody and scansion on the b-side track "Watchlar".

Its something like "badness is a throwing of stones/oceans of emotion are motions all".

Triv #3: the lyrics to "Mellonella" are recitations of scientific butterfly names.

the little bit of music they did for the Fruitopia ad, which is like 15 glorious seconds of wtf.

I had forgotten about that !!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58yf3T1i8oI

Come on Trayce !! You seem to know them so well ! It should be easy to throw together a ballot and your contribution would be really interesting and appreciated.

^^^ this

At the very least, your depthless repository of knowledge would be gem-like, a treasure, even, excepting that wholly unnecessary aside about C-pop.

It wasnt a dig! Srry if it seemed like one, I like Faye Wong!

Here's the Fruitopia ad for anyone not familiar: one of her most spine-tingling high vocals, so sad it is on such a tiny slice of music!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58yf3T1i8oI

It still blows me away they agreed to do a freaking softdrink commercial.

lol whoops I didn't notice roo already posted it.

Oh! Somewhere, I used to have on bootleg casette the original, demo-sent-to-Ivo version of "Perhaps some other aeon", which was rough as guts and very ticky-tocky, much more so than the version on the extended Garlands CD. I wonder if I still have that somewhere. Eh 'sprobably on Youtube anyway.

I love that Snub TV clip of Orange Appled - I think the other song performed for the show was Ella Megalast. I remember watching it live in a friend's house in Loughborough (Jan '91?) and the announcer casually mentioning, in the intro to Orange Appled (clipped above), that they'd just left 4AD. HUH?

Huh, it is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owTjukLbzDE

There's a shorter, different jingle for Fruitopia too - can be found on this page: www.cocteautwins.com/html/media/audio.html

Thats right, I forgot about that.

What's people's take on Otherness? Its the one EP no one discusses much. Everyone hyped Seefeel so much at the time (and try as I might, I couldnt get into them really?), so I find it curious people don't rep for Otherness much. Its certainly the most outlier thing of their discog, imo.

I also found it curious because when they did "Peppermint Pig" - the only recording Guthrie allowed someone else to produce - I read an interview where he said "never again" and would also object to remixes and etc because "that would be like eating yer dinner, having a shit and then eating yer shit".

....wow I am such a Twins saddo.

The one time I met Liz Fraser I kept insisting that she was working with Autechre (this was summer '94). I'd had a total brain fail and I meant Seefeel. "I'm sure I read it somewhere." "No, I've never met them." "Are you sure?" etc etc. Aargh. She was nice though.

Hahaha whoops! :) She is such a pixie, I reckon she'd be great to get pished in the pub with.

Was hoping she'd make an appearance at the aftershow at the RFH last August but perhaps it's best she was spared my overfamiliarity based on a 5min conversation in Warrington 18 years earlier. "Seefeel! I meant Seefeel!"

Weird... listening to all these rare tracks, I think I actually have most of them on some data disc. "Need Fire" and the Garlands bonus track "Speak No Evil" seem totally new to me though.

Trayce, no worries, I was just teasing! Also, u r not a saddo, but an invaluable font of Coctovian history.

Liz and Autechre would seem like a wasted opportunity, imho.

ps happy birthday liz fraser!

Her 50th !

She's still so young compared to her musical contemporaries.

I just found out that it's Tiny Dynamine, not Tiny Dynamite!

This is the kind of Cocteau insight you get when certain Aussies don't participate.

ptthhttt :]

I need to revisit the post-HOLV material. Maybe some of it's more worthwhile than I remember?

Personnally, I thought Milk and Kisses was a bit Cocteau by numbers when it came out, but I've grown to really love it.

Four-Calender Café on the other hand was a disapointment and I've never really warmed up to it that much. Liz uses her high register/whispering style a lot and I miss her full voice. The quitars are really tame and simple too. There are high points though, like "Pur" and "Summerhead", but mostly it flirts too closely with A/C for my taste.

Excited about this poll. Perhaps one distinguishing characteristic of my ballot will be nothing from Treasure.

Yeah Ive never been a fan of 4CC outside "Summerhead". Its an odd album. Isnt that when Robin got off the smack?

Thought he was a cokehead, actually.
"Crushed" is a strong contender for #1, but the real agony will be choosing 5 EPs. Like no other band (except maybe Autechre) the EPs are the soul of the Cocteaus.
I remember walking into a record shop on the island's "big city" in 1987 and, having heard the name Cocteau Twins, pulling Tiny Dynamine out of the rack and buying it without hearing a note. Put it on at home and just stared at the speakers.

I saw them on the 4CC tour and I think it was even more disapointing than the album. Liz was trying out a new different signing style and didn't follow any melodies but instead was kind of making quacking sounds. Very strange... At least we got to meet her backstage after the show. She was really nice, talking about her newborn baby, so I lied and told her I loved the concert.

Now I know I wasn't the only one feeling like this. I found this on their website:

Fans and band members had mixed feelings about Liz's vocal stylings during the tour, where many of the songs were all but unrecognizable vocally and lyrically. Liz subsequently explained that it was her way of breaking those "old habits," and working to fundamentally change her singing voice—an accomplishment which was obvious on later records.

looking forward to getting a vote in for this! so many different songs have been my amongst my favourites over the years, it'll be hard to arrive at an up-to-date consensus. listening to

... Orange Appled right now and it is magical.

Hey guys, I won't be near a computer for the next two days. So don't forget to vote ! I haven't received many ballots yet...

VOTEEEEEEEEEDDDDD and it was fun, I didn't even mind listening to Milk and Kisses to make sure it had nothing to vote for.

Will votes for the versions on "Otherness" and "Twinlights" be counted separately or together with the originals?

Fans and band members had mixed feelings about Liz's vocal stylings during the tour, where many of the songs were all but unrecognizable vocally and lyrically

Yeah that was apparently the big problem with the shows she did last year. Not that I saw them but from the youtube clips she really ruined Song to the Siren, for example.

I said that after the Bath show, people who were at teh RFH didn't agree with me.

she really ruined Song to the Siren

Revisiting BBK -- it's a lot better than I remember it being!

brendan perry currently owns the best contemporary interpretation of song to the siren, they're playing it as an encore at DCD shows.

I agree that was a great version.

It's a bit harsh to say it's "ruined" if she doesn't sing it the way she did in 1983, frankly I have more respect for the risk taken by reinterpreting it

In theory I agree, but it just sounds timid and bloodless now. It's an emotive song and it needs to be emoted over.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NsT5XOTMa0

Normally the voting would close tomorrow at midnight. I haven't received that many ballots though. Maybe there aren't as many CT fans on ILM as we thought. Or maybe people are tired of polls?
We'll leave the signing to Liz, but let your voice be heard !

Normally I would do this but I simply ain't got the time to hit the deadline.
I also struggle with matching their wonderful tunes to song titles
Good luck with your poll

Would it help if the deadline was pushed till saturday ?

i can't answer, i just voted but i suppose stretching the deadline - which i found quite tough btw - would not do any harm.

i've been debating voting but honestly my ballot would be the pink opaque and 4 or 5 songs i've actually caught the titles of

That would give you about 20 songs. All you gotta do is order them !

i usually prefer to lurk when i stand to learn more from a poll i didn't influence than one i did, but I'll contribute one later today if we're desperate.

i suppose stretching the deadline - which i found quite tough btw - would not do any harm.

I looked at other polls before starting this one and eight days seemed to be about the norm. If it'll help some people put a ballot together, I don't mind pushing the deadline at all. Can a moderator change it to Sept 7th ?

We're pretty desperate, I've only got 9 ballots so far (including mine)...

Just 9? Ouch. Vote people!

still working on mine (on iphone, annoyingly). not sure if can make current deadline - another vote for slight pushback!

Also still noodling. Have 20 – just not sure about the order.

Just finished my ballot ... sending now.

yeah, I am voting but haven't finished yet! Until the weekend would be great!

And another one!

Also asking for extension, plz!

we can extend the deadline no problem.

your want to be mod, Bee OK.

Alright !! So let's make the new deadline Sunday Sept 8th at midnight ETZ , that way people who have a busy work week will have the whole weekend to put together their ballot. It does take a bit longer to do with the Cocteaus cause many times you need to look up the song titles, so thanks Bee !!!

I realize not everyone uses spotify, but the whole catalogue seems to be on there (maybe missing a thing or two? not sure), but it's great for skimming through the albums and having "oh shit! I remember that one!" moments and adding those tracks to a playlist for ballot narrowing down purposes. That's what I did anyway.

Pretty much agree with everyone else who's said they're working on a ballot but it's not that easy trying to remember all the song titles. The only way to do it is listen through all the albums again which I started doing last night, I'm up to Victorialand. The extension is greatly appreciated.

Thanks for the extension - I only saw this poll was running yesterday and have a bit of re-listening to do.

I have not heard the term "saddo" before. I love it.

will try and send by the new deadline. psyched for this.

Personnally, I thought /Milk and Kisses/ was a bit Cocteau by numbers when it came out, but I've grown to really love it.

/Four-Calender Café/ on the other hand was a disapointment and I've never really warmed up to it that much. Liz uses her high register/whispering style a lot and I miss her full voice. The quitars are really tame and simple too. There are high points though, like "Pur" and "Summerhead", but mostly it flirts too closely with A/C for my taste.

I adore M&K and always have. FCC I've never been able to get with.

What are people's take on Blue Bell Knoll? What songs should I be listening to for this poll?

If you adore M&K, you will love BBK. It's the album it resembles the most IMO.
It may feel a bit overproduced at times (if that's possible for CT) and very of a piece as a whole. For me the highlights are the title track, "Carolyn's Fingers", "The Itchy Glowbo Blow", and "Ella Megalast Burls Forever".

I'd forgotten about Carolyn's Fingers – Liz is awesome on that. The Itchy Glowbo Blow is a nice little discovery.

I think it was Trouser Press that said they were a much better EP band than album band. I completely agree.

i dislike the production on BBK (too 'rococó' + their worst drum sound by far) but most of the songs are quite good. in purely vocal terms, i'd say BBK could be liz at the height of her powers. it feels like her most exploratory record in a way, the amount of acrobatics and multivoices she employs is staggering. yeah, everybody swears by "carolyn's fingers" as the song to go. personally, i love "for phoebe still a baby" and "suckling the mender" (mid-song she goes nuts on her upper register, that insanely high note she reaches looks like a test for die hard liz-ophiles). and if you're into late period CT, both "a kissed out red floatboat" and "the itchy glowbo blow" sound like warming ups for the HOLV/4CC sound.

Carolyn's Fingers was the first CT song I heard, from a Capitol Records cassette sampler that also had a Kissed-Out Red Floatboat, so I have a soft spot for it and the album.

First half of BBK is really strong and adventurous for the Cocteaus, IMO.

BBK may well get my #1 vote. Treasure 4 ever and all that but ugh that drum machine snare.

I still remember the look of horror on my friend's face during the first drum roll when I played him "Persephone." Listening again, I can't say I feel much different today. Then again I find the production generally on Treasure to be murky.

BBK still fails to make a huge impression on me. It's a great sounding record (and rococo is the word), but the songs tend not to stick with me.

Good, I broke out my copy of "The Moon and the Melodies" ( aka "if you really love me you'll sit through this new age shit") just for the occasion. And now everyone can vote for "Love's Easy Tears".

BBK is my favorite of their albums, though I've only heard three of them and should eventually remedy that. The first time I heard "Athol-Brose" was one of the most euphoric moments of my life, no joke. Freshman year of college I started digging into a lot of new music, and Cocteau Twins was one of those names that kept coming up, so late one night I downloaded whatever songs came up first on Napster (god bless it). I guess hearing "Athol-Brose" first might have just been an alphabetical coincidence. Had my headphones cranked up and I felt transported out of the room as soon as the verse kicked in. Almost thought I was going to pass out from bliss, like this song was so powerful it could kill me. When it ended, I sat there stunned for a few minutes. I've never been able to replicate that feeling from that song or any of their songs again - I think part of it was hearing something so different from everything I had heard before.

I think Four-Calendar Café is much better than the thread discussion up till now. Sure it is not an adventurous album but sound-wise it really ties in with Heaven or Las Vegas which surprise, surprise, is still my favourite as it was the first Cocteaus album I heard and I did not get it immediately. The songs on FCC which is probably their most consistent and coherent album are almost as strong, some of them even have a more mysterious atmosphere. They set up such a relaxed, soothing ambiance. Theft, and Wandering Around Lost is such an amazing song. Great slightly oblique title, a melody which has that irresistible mix of cosy warmness and melancholy, pure bliss if you ask me. I have four songs of FCC under my top 20 and five from HOLV. FCC is a little bit my guilty pleasure of the Cocteau catalogue.

Sorry false start: I think Four-Calendar Café is much better than the thread discussion up till now might suggest.

I dont think I could ever have enough rococo. I love the drum sound on Treasure. I think I liked a lot of the things the band members perhaps disliked. I've heard them say they had serious resrvations about Treasure and Garlands, but I think those are easily the two best. I was a little troubled by how much Guthrie disliked This Mortal Coil, he said it was folky beardy wallowing depressing crap; but Raymonde seemed proud to be a part of it.

I can understand why they felt trapped in their 80s style but I dont think Heaven Or Las Vegas is the triumphant new direction that most do. I think the style was less interesting and the material more patchy from that point on. The really complex gothic stuff is just dazzling and still amazingly unique and I cant think of many other instances of anyone or anything achieving that kind of bewildering incomprehensible wonder with very little resting anyone else's templates. They had a truly rare amount of imagination.
In that regard I somtimes feel that they probably should be higher in the rock/pop canon than they are, but soundscape bands are always gonna be too niche to get massive recognition no matter how innovative they are.

I think Guthrie's style from 2007 onwards is better than the 90s Cocteau albums or Violet Indiana. It has this deep underwater feeling and more of the confusing dazzle that made him great but in a really different way. I havent kept up with his stuff
I havent read much of his blog but from interviews I've never really seen him talk about the sort of worlds he creates, I'd really love to know the way he visualises these places. I was really impressed that he created his own background video photography but I wonder what sort of things he would create if he was a painter or a writer.

i never really understand the holy grail of treasure. there are two great songs, namely ivo and pandora but the rest does not convince me. they risk more here than on HOLV or FCC and the album is more varied but i don't think they succeed. aloysius for example to me is just an aimless song where liz's sprechsinging really annoys me, it does not work at all. the next song cicely is even worse, some horrid drum programming, no sight of a melody, her singing is simply not there. i cannot stand donimo neither, to me it is repetitive and dull, i can't listen to the song until the end, it does not grab me at all, it does not even pass me by, it repels me. for me all this was just an important stage on the way to their wooly, tuneful signature sound which they finally found on HOLV. i quite like garlands btw. as it really sounds like a completely different band exploring the open music terrain after punk. the main interest of treasure to me seems that it is in between post-punk and dream pop.

I never realised how great Blue Bell Knoll was until I played it again thanks to this poll.

What a laugh.It transports me back to my lonely bedsit days as a late 80s student in West Ham, on a course I totally fucking hated. Fuck, my memories of London are purely autumn. Cocteau Twins, Husker Du, Die Kreuzen, Wolfhounds,The Wipers, MBV on and on . Spending all my grant money on trips to Rough Trade and Tower Records for 'indie' and hardcore punk. No wonder I was depressed

I'm gonna do this poll I swear.

Sorry, but I never *got* Garlands. Heresy ,I know

Nah, Garlands isn't important to get. If you do, good for you.

blue bell knoll is pretty great, especially the dreamy "for phoebe still a baby" which gives an indication where they were heading. and te closer "ella megalast burls forever". a perfect lullabyish song to end an album. again this sounds very much like heaven or las vegas later on.

It's still Lorelei...

I'm sure it didn't help my appreciation that I had Garlands on cassette (everything else on vinyl); mind you, I think I bought it the same day as The Serpent's Egg on tape in SelectADisc in Nottingham in 1990, and *that* I loved.

But, no, I came to it too late, as an act of completism, knowing that I probably wouldn't like it much based on the diminishing returns of Peppermint Pig and Lullabies (Head Over Heels was where they really found their feet, as far as I was concerned; I bought BBK shortly after it came out, everything else as I could afford it). Harsh, monochrome, Liz's voice choked and congested. 1983-88 is my favourite period.

What a fucking great band. Making me almost sob.
I would be letting it flow if the missus and son weren't sat next to me watching Celebrity Big Brother ffs.
I need a drink of something to go with this headphone bliss

x-p
really? that jeans wore out completely, i think. especially the chorus. the title is interesting though, the equation liz=lorelei isn't very far fetched.

i really, really love the opener of blue bell knoll, when mama was moth. it has got these dark vibes in the beginning from which the sweet keyboard melody slowly rises and on top of that out of nowhere liz's voice appears. what a perfect way to start an album. a slow introduction into the mysterious world of the cocteau twins. absolutely breathtaking.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6v7gVpCCxyw

(You mean Head Over Heels, of course...)

Probably a typo, but it's the openener of Head Over Heels. You're right it is an astounding intro to an amazing album.

yes, of course, sorry.

It's funny so far we have people who don't "get" Garlands, Treasure, Blue Bell Knoll, and Four-Calender Café. Yet we all love and admire the same band. It probably shows how much evolution they did from one album to the other.

For me their creative peak was in 1985-86, with the Tiny Dynamine and Echoes in a Shallow Bay EPs, Victorialand, and the Love's Easy Tears EP.

And the Aikea-Guinea EP !

re: Treasure and Garlands as my favorites... usually when someone criticizes some of my favorite music I can understand it or have a vague idea where they are coming from but I cant even slightly comprehend any criticisms of those. I'm just like "Huh? What?!". I think it is probably one of those cases of me loving things for the very reasons that other people hate them.

I acually havent listened to either in years and the prospect of seeing your points is scary because they are important as music gets to me.

More random trivia, I've noticed Liz often reuses lyrics as song titles:

"Musette and Drums" is the first line in "Feathers-Oar-Blades",
"Ribbed and Veined" (a song title on Tiny Dynamine) can be heard in "When Mama Was Moth",
"Ooze Out and Away, Onehow" from The Moon and the Melodies is a lyric in "My Love Paramour",
"Bloody and Blunt" heard in "The Tinderbox (Of a Heart)" is also a song title on The Moon and the Melodies.

I'm sure there are more.

i never really understand the holy grail of treasure. there are two great songs, namely ivo and pandora but the rest does not convince me. they risk more here than on HOLV or FCC and the album is more varied but i don't think they succeed. aloysius for example to me is just an aimless song where liz's sprechsinging really annoys me, it does not work at all. the next song cicely is even worse, some horrid drum programming, no sight of a melody, her singing is simply not there. i cannot stand donimo neither, to me it is repetitive and dull, i can't listen to the song until the end, it does not grab me at all, it does not even pass me by, it repels me. for me all this was just an important stage on the way to their wooly, tuneful signature sound which they finally found on HOLV. i quite like garlands btw. as it really sounds like a completely different band exploring the open music terrain after punk. the main interest of treasure to me seems that it is in between post-punk and dream pop.

― it's the distortion, stupid! (alex in mainhattan), Thursday, September 5, 2013 10:36 AM

your post for example to me is just an aimless post where your lame opinion really annoys me, it does not work at all. the next sentence is even worse, some horrid put-downs, no sight of a point, your argument is simply not there. i cannot stand your older posts neither, to me they are repetitive and dull, i can't read your posts until the end, it does not grab me at all, it does not even pass me by, it repels me.

Except he's right.

sleeve, i'd find your point of view more convincing, if you'd argue in favour of the music you like instead of simply repeating what i wrote and turning it against me. a parrot is a parrot is a parrot. there must be good reasons why treasure is in such a high esteem but as i said before i didn't grasp them yet.

Would rep hard for Sunburst and Snowblind – "Sugar Hiccup" is a great single, but "From the Flagstones" and "Hitherto" are where Cocteau Twins begin for me.

^This.

My ballot may well have reflected that.

Did y'all get a "cheers" or something after sending in your list? I can't shake my paranoia that my deathless selections might be lost in the void.

I did get a response from LeRoo

alex I'm not gonna debate your bad taste with you. I will ask that you stop doing this thing in threads where you complain in an extremely negative fashion about things that other people really really like , calling songs "worthless" (like I think you did on the new MBV thread?) and saying they "repel" you isn't a remotely convincing argument either. The only thing that I get from your posts is that you don;t understand the songs. Domino is fucking beautiful, if you can't hear that then there's really nothing to say except "sorry for your loss."

Matthew I just checked and I haven't received your ballot.

sleeve, you are not gonna debate my bad taste with me? who do you think you are? the one who decides who has got bad taste and who has got good taste? in other words, god? on the mbv thread - and esp. on the off-spring on only tomorrow - i was positive most of the time. mbv is my fave album this year up to now and i really tried to nail into words what i love about only tomorrow. i even started liking nothing is more a loop than a great song. i don't understand most songs on treasure, you are right but you didn't help me with your post. on the contrary you didn't even name the song you like so much correctly, domino is a game not a song by the cocteaus. to finish this waste of time off i have to say that i really, really tried to like treasure as all you critics seem to like it. and each time i was disappointed by it. i tried to express what i felt in words, i know my critic wasn't very sophisticated but english isn't my mother tongue and i am no profesional. in other words, i tried many times and came to the conclusion that i don't care for most of treasure. i wouldn't mind if you tried to explain why you like treasure.

Thats right, I forgot about that.

What's people's take on Otherness? Its the one EP no one discusses much. Everyone hyped Seefeel so much at the time (and try as I might, I couldnt get into them really?), so I find it curious people don't rep for Otherness much. Its certainly the most outlier thing of their discog, imo.

This is hard.

oops, forgot there was a remix of Feet-like Fins - please clarify on your ballot if you mean the remixes instead of the originals

love Otherness, best of the late period for me

Ok people, it's the weekend! Now is the time to relisten to your favorite Cocteau tunes and make a ballot. You have until tomorrow midnight to send it in !

Midnight tonight, you mean?

deadline is tomorrow (Sunday) night midnight.

People seemed to be needing more time so I wanted to give them the whole weekend to put together their ballot. I guess I should've said Sunday Sept 8th at 23:59 ETZ.

sent!

I didn't get it. Can you send it again Da Croupier ?

d'oh, put too many e's in the name. sent!

Dying over the last 5 spots on my ballot!

from Best Cocteau Twins album thread:

i really don't understand why nobody voted for four-calendar café. i still think it is their most consistent album. and it has one of their most amazing songs on it: theft, and wandering around lost.
― it's the distortion, stupid! (alex in mainhattan), Friday, September 6, 2013 7:14 PM (2 days ago)

thanks alex: I relistened to "Theft, And Wandering Around Lost" and checked out the suspected lyrics - had no idea they were that heavy!

it wasn't one of the 2 Four Calendar Cafe picks (agree it's one of their most under-rated albums) on my already-submitted ballot, but now might make the top 20 partly based on:
Is this what my body said? "Engulf me, I'm already dead"

Sent!

Ditto

Keep 'em coming !

Sent!

this is so hard!

whew! finished and submitted. sorry, frosty the snowman. you were my #21.

Poll is closed. Good thing we pushed back the deadline a bit. In the end we got a respectable 22 ballots. Thanks to everyone who voted. I will try to get the results rolling by the weekend!

Yeah, I'd also like to apologise to both Frosty and to Carolyn's fingers. ;)

Curious to know how people found out about the Cocteaus, especially if it was after their prime and/or a result of backtracking from one of Liz's collabs.

'92 Rolling Stone Album Guide and a SPIN piece on Heaven Or Las Vegas. Didn't hear them until far later (after "Teardrop"), when I checked out my college radio station's copy of The Pink Opaque on vinyl.

x-post:

Curious to know how people found out about the Cocteaus, especially if it was after their prime and/or a result of backtracking from one of Liz's collars.

ooh - I have a story - bit of a long ting, but hope it's of interest!

Summer 1983 I brought my band's demo tape from Florida to London and shopped it around some of my fave labels (4AD, Cherry Red, Rough Trade, Mute and Some Bizarre). fellow Wire fan Ivo of 4AD was the friendliest and gave me the most time. when I dropped off the tape, he gave me xeroxed pages of 4AD's catalogue (by year) of releases, many of which I was unfamiliar with. I was also taken with Vaughan Oliver's cover art (Fetisch and Breakdown/Tarantula?) on the walls of the 4AD office he shared with Ivo in the Beggars Banquet building.

so at the end of my next (demo feedback) visit I asked Ivo for recommendations - where next to start with 4AD releases. Ivo politely hemmed and hawed that he loved all the bands. when I pressed him further, he admitted: Cocteau Twins (maybe cos he already knew what was in the can?).

returning to Florida I ordered Garlands, Lullabies and Peppermint Pig right away. became my new fave band - imagine: people my age! (my post punk faves mostly had 5-10 years on me). I could tell Robin had been listening to many of the same guitarists as me, but had already forged his own unique/powerful sound. a couple months later Head Over Heels and Sunburst And Snowblind were released… …and away we go!

My older brother had Pearly-Dewdrops' Drops on 7". I always preferred the B-side. I usually think of the 2-3 years after he left home as a bit of a musical wasteland, as I hadn't started listening to Peel, I didn't read MM/NME/Sounds, I was pretty unaware of what was happening in vaguely left-field pop. All my reference points were still my older brother's post-punk ones. And I seemed to be mostly buying LPs by Joni Mitchell and Tangerine Dream.

Then I heard Blue Bell Knoll playing early one morning in HMV in Liverpool, when they'd just opened for the day and didn't have to stick to whatever chart playlist they were encouraged to promote. I knew immediately who it was from memories of that 7". I owned everything within about six months. I had similar retrospective binges with the Muses and Pixies around that time and Melody Maker connected all the dots.

For me it was simple – I read the review of Treasure in the NME, liked the sound of it and off I went.

In the 80s I lived at the tail end of the world (still do) and the oddest music I could find in high school was The Cure, so I immersed myself in them around 1985 - read an interview with Smith (maybe in Creem?) and he mentioned CT as favourite listening. A few months later I happened on the one record shop in the state which had anything by them, bought Tiny Dynamine, the rest followed very rapidly and I was waiting for Blue Bell Knoll when it came out. Man those albums were hard to get.

I remember how awesome the mid-90s was for American 4AD fans, because you had the Warner Bros. distribution deal combined with Best Buy selling CDs as loss leaders. All of a sudden 4AD albums went from being scarce and costing $22-25 to readily available for $8-10. So my progression was something like Blue Bell Knoll in 1989, The Pink Opaque in 1990, Heaven or Las Vegas in 1991, and then every single other Cocteau Twins release (and pretty much everything on 4AD) in 1996.

I heard "Wax And Wane" on the radio, so it must have been sometime after autumn 1982. First record I found was Sunburst And Snowblind - I can still remember listening to it... There were some good record stores in Baltimore that stocked imports, I would buy them when I visited my grandparents. My own town in central VA didn't get a super good record store until summer '85. By autumn 1984 when I left VA for college I had everything plus the This Mortal Coil 12". Then Tesco Vee, of all people, wrote a top ten of 1984 for MRR sometime in the spring of '85 and included Treasure (this same list also turned me on to Swans' Cop LP, lol). Treasure was my fave for years, lately I prefer HOH. I liked Victorialand a lot as well but never clicked with BBK, it is definitely time to revisit that record.

Lovely stories, all. Paul, anything interesting result from your meeting with Ivo?

My own story:

Garbage were on the radio doing an in-studio interview and previewing Version 2.0 -- so this is 1998 -- and they were asked to play some other tunes that they were digging at the time. So they play this one single from a British group, and I'm instantly curious when it starts with this crystalline harpsichord line, and then the Voice starts singing and she's unlike anything I had ever heard before. The song, of course, was "Teardrop," and when I found out that the singer wasn't part of Massive Attack, I start to branch out and get tipped to the Cocteaus. The first three that I get, not at the same time, are Garlands, HOLV, and Milk & Kisses, the latter two of which I prefer because that's Liz in her high operatic voice, which in the ensuing 15 years remains my preferred incarnation of hers, until this poll compelled me to revisit their early and mid 80s output as well, when Liz is as likely to rise from some brackish moor and howl at the moon from as she is to deliver the honeyed glossolalia.

i started gettin into independent rock around 1990/91. bands like the pixies, the blue aeroplanes, teenage fanclub, massive attack etc. on france inter i listened to bernard lenoir's daily emission. he occasionally played "sugar hiccup" and i liked it very much, it sounded very different from all the other stuff i listened to, a band that has forged their own, very special fairy sound. i listened to "heaven or las vegas" in the cd store and it didn't click, i dd't get it, i did't hear the melodies. i still do not understand how i could not hear them, the same happened to me later with belle & sebastian. after another listen i finally bought the cd and loved it. i started buying the other albums. but nothing ever blew me away as much as HOL.

So they play this one single from a British group, and I'm instantly curious when it starts with this crystalline harpsichord line, and then the Voice starts singing and she's unlike anything I had ever heard before. The song, of course, was "Teardrop,"

Haha I guess it shows my age/approach that as I was reading this "crystalline harpsichord line" made me assume you meant "Blue Bell Knoll"!

I thought the same thing !

Haha I actually never thought of BBK that way, and spoilers, I voted for it!

Mainly, I wanted to explain why I prefer later Cocteaus, since Liz's approach then is more closely related to her post-band work that grabbed me so much in the first place.

I am trying to remember which song I heard of theirs first. It was either Musette and Drums - a live performance on TV from "The Tube" - or inadvertently a little earlier (not sure on timing) I heard "Lorelei" on TV playing on, of all things, a test pattern! I didnt know what it was, but I'd hum it to myself all the time cause it'd stuck in my head. When I eventually got "Treasure" I was all "omg that funny little gaspy song!"

But no I think it was "Musette" first. Went out and bought "Pink Opaque", this would've been around 1986 or 87. Then Garlands. Then all bets were off.

I have some early 7inch singles and a fair few of the albums on vinyl.

Mainly, I wanted to explain why I prefer later Cocteaus, since Liz's approach then is more closely related to her post-band work that grabbed me so much in the first place.

― Shannon Leeedles (Leee), Thursday, 12 September 2013 01:31

This totally makes sense in a Massive Attack context, thanks for the perspective. Their later stuff escapes me, I like HOLV just fine but my relationship with the following two albums is ambivalent at best. These polls are always a good excuse to re-listen and re-evaluate...

High school, mid-eighties. Me and my friends hated mainstream radio. There were some alternative and college shows back then. We all liked the Cure... but they don't play "Cure-type" (alternative rock music as opposed to new wave pop) bands on the radio. So the tapes got passed around.

Which tracks from "Moon And The Melodies" feature Liz?

Elizabeth Fraser appears on tracks 1, 4, 5 and 8.

Trayce, that performance on The Tube had to be 1983, though. That was actually my first encounter with them and I was transfixed by "Musette and Drums" in particular, although the other song they performed, "From the Flagstones," was no lightweight either.

It was, but thats not when I saw it. I'm australian - we had a show here in the mid 80s called RockArena that would often show older clips from the Tube :) Im reckoning I saw it in about 1987.

Oh, right. I actually saw that live and it rooted me to the spot. Went out and bought Garlands right away. I don't think Head Over Heels was even out yet, so I caught up with the 12" singles.

Yeah it mesmerised me as well! I also loved the guy moshing on someone's shoulders in the audience.

I should post up photos of my Cocteaus/4AD scrapbook Ive kept since the 80s. Some corker interviews clipped and pasted in it.

There is a book about this...

"The First Time I Heard Cocteau Twins is Part II in an ongoing series where musicians and writers tell their stories of first hearing the music of an iconic artist or band. In this second volume (following the opening installment, which covered Joy Division / New Order), forty different musicians and writers remember their initial experiences hearing the seminal dreampop / post-punk band Cocteau Twins, a standout group from the legendary 4AD Records and favorite of radio personality John Peel. The Cocteau Twins hailed from Grangemouth, Scotland, and featured musicians Elizabeth Fraser, Robin Guthrie, and Simon Raymonde.

Contributors to the Cocteau Twins edition include musicians such as David Narcizo (Throwing Muses); Ian Masters (Pale Saints); pianist and Cocteau Twins collaborator Harold Budd; band collaborator and live guitarist Lincoln Fong; Pete Fijalkowski (Adorable); Anka Wolbert (Clan of Xymox); Sean "Grasshopper" Mackowiak (Mercury Rev); Meredith Meyer; Mark Van Hoen (Locust, Seefeel); Paul Anderson (Tram); Paul Elam (Fieldhead); Rebecca Coseboom (Halou, Stripmall Architecture); Michael Cottone (The Green Kingdom); Sarah Jaffe; Antony Ryan (Isan); Dean Garcia (Curve); Kurt Feldman (The Pains of Being Pure at Heart); Erik Blood; Annie Barker; John Loring (Fleeting Joys); Guy Fixsen (Laika and co-engineer for My Bloody Valentine); Emily Elhaj (Implodes); Carlo Van Putten (The Convent, White Rose Transmission); Eric Quach (thisquietarmy); Ryan Policky (A Shoreline Dream); Matthew Kelly (The Autumns); Steve Elkins (The Autumns); Ryan Lum (Lovespirals); Michael Savage (The Fauns); Amman Abbasi (The Abbasi Brothers); Eric Loveland Heath; Ben Mullins (Midwest Product); Keith Canisius; Michael McCabe and David Read (Coldharbourstores); and writers like Emily Franklin, Craig Laurance Gidney, Alistair McCartney; Tony Leuzzi; and Sommer Browning.

The "First Time I Heard" book series is edited by Scott Heim, a novelist (Mysterious Skin, We Disappear) who is also a longtime music fan. Other installments in the series (or those forthcoming soon) include books on Joy Division / New Order, David Bowie, The Smiths, Kate Bush, R.E.M., Kraftwerk, My Bloody Valentine, Abba, Roxy Music, The Pixies, and others."

Wow, that looks great! As for those bands, I know what I will look for when I go shopping next.

I'm not crazy about the term "dream pop"... it's opened the door for a lot of suburban-type bands who aren't that good.

Time for another screening of ....

Cocteau Fever !!!!

http://youtu.be/gaOlNfC8_xQ

My personal one: I'm going to sound like a baby because my experience wasn't that long ago and I was born around the time of Victorialand.

I was getting into the world of dreampop/shoegazing in 2005 spurred on by an obsession with Slowdive, The Cure and a lust for anything that filled that area.
I had saw the album covers of Cocteau Twins loads of times, heard a bit of HOLV in Fopp and it sounded way more ambient to me then than it does now, it seemed almost like Tangerine Dream and I had a vague feeling I might like it but it didn't really grab me; the photos of the band somehow made me think their music would be slightly oriental or have some sort of exotic world music flavour, which at the time didn't appeal to me.

But in late 2005 the more I looked at the album covers and heard how important they were to dreampop and goth, I knew I needed them. I listened to Garlands and Head Over Heels and it was so deeply astonishing, fascinating, satisfying, fulfilling and opened up a lot of doors to different worlds in my imagination that I was desperate to get all their music as fast as possible. Over the next few months I got all the studio albums and a bit later the next year I got the Lullabies To Violane compilations.
It was like trying to gulp it all down as fast as possible before some unforeseen circumstance like getting hit by a bus taken the chance away from me. Perhaps I should have spaced out the albums more but I felt I couldn't stop myself.
I have to say that the direction their sound took in the 90s disappointed me at the time, but I cant really blame them and it is still great music and I think the 90s Eps were possibly better than the albums. I was so entranced by their most gothic stuff that I wanted as much of that as possible, the more complex and confusing the better.

I do wish some other bands could mine that early territory (it is difficult or maybe impossible to communicate precisely what qualities I mean that I don't think have been expanded upon enough) while still sounding highly personal and original. Nearly every Cocteau sound-alike mixes in Dead Can Dance and I do like some of them but I haven't heard any that were original as I would like, too many sound the same on a superficial level. I think it is legitimate to see some territory another band did and wanting to go that place in your own utterly unique way that hopefully doesn't just remind people of a better band who did it before you.

It's also weird that only a few months after that phase I got into Swans and Diamanda Galas but in my memory it all seems a long time apart.

Cocteau Fever never gets old.

all of these stories should have waited for the poll roll out, imo.

they are great however.

August 31, 1986. Had read a review of Victorialand, probably in Trouser Press, and thought it sounded right up my ambient-Eno-worshipping alley. Picked it up having never heard a note at Tower Records, 4th & Bdwy NYC (bought the same day: Paul McCartney Press, Best of the Lovin' Spoonful, two Peter Cook/Dudley Moore albums).

Put it on the turntable, not noticing the little "45" on the label (it was technically an EP after all), and listened to "Lazy Calm" and the rest of Side 1 at 33. Blown away by how gorgeous it was. Went to flip the record and spotted the "45," played Side 1 again. Still utterly gorgeous. Fan for life.

technically an EP

it's an album that was mastered at 45 for sound quality. it's longer than garlands!

Did the results roll out get rescheduled?

I'm sorry, I've had a really busy week at work and compiling this is taking longer than I thought. But it's coming soon I promise !

No worries – just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing it!

Results thread roll out has begun !

Cups of POLLy-Dewdrops' Drops -- ILM Artist Poll #35 -- The COCTEAU TWINS results thread