U2 - Rattle and Hum POLL

I would like to set most of this album on fire

voted "Desire" because voting for a live version of a previously-released song feels like cheating (otherwise "Bullet the Blue Sky" without even thinking twice)

DONT EVEN GET ME FUCKING STARTED

ha forgot caps lock was on, but its prob a fair means of expression

unless we are voting for worst

when love comes to town is just seriously one of the worst things to ever happen

oh shit I should have asked for that clarification, I genuinely like "Desire"

haha this was my gateway drug into U2, i loved it at the time (i was 13 when it came out.) uh, i love it less now. but i still think hawkmoon 269 and heartland are great tracks.

jjj did we have horrified reactions to this album simultaneously or did we listen separately and then call each other to boggle at how terrible it was, I don't remember now

wait but also angel of harlem is also one of the worst things to ever happen

i think we might have had them simultaneously, altho the years have only intensified my dislike if such a thing is possible

this was basically the album where i was finally "ohhhhh so thats why everyone thinks nice old bono is a self-important dick"

i think the problem with a lot of the weaker cuts on this album is their american blues and jazz homages sound like bumper music for chicago cubs broadcasts on WGN. :(

hahaha exactly!

all I know is that I never owned it, someone inflicted it upon me

and yeah, the years have not softened my feelings

you two are stealing the thread from al leong. i'm stealing it back!

I just find it amazing that the band behind those first three albums would even consider recording "Angel In Harlem"

xp: belly lol

they should do a paul stanley song intro medley thingy for bono i bet there would be some stunners in there

sorry, not trying to ruin this for people that like this album, do your thing, i just have kind of a visceral reaction

All I Want Is You is so good, but do people forget about it because it's such a chore making it to the end of the album?

Heartland is best here, Desire also great. I like Van Diemen's Land a lot in the film, not sure I would ever put it on on its own though.

I've got an alternate 2.0 version somewhere, with much better live cuts. It's genuinely a pretty good album.

I would like to set most of this album on fire

why isn't this an option

jjj let's go over here

http://www.ilxor.com/ILX/NewAnswersControllerServlet?boardid=58

uh I meant RATTLE AND HUM IS SUCH A DICK but you found it already so

still love Neil Tennant's response:

Rock critics liked RAH because they want a return to the traditional rock values. What they basically want is for it to be like 1969 again. It's this thing where British -- or in U2's case Irish -- groups discover the roots of American music. U2 have discovered this and they're just doing pastiches (his voice rises) and it's reviewed as a serious thing because `Dylan plays organ' on some song and B.B. King plays on some throwaway pop song `When Love Comes To Town' that could have been written by Andrew Lloyd Webber. It could be in `Starlight Express' if you ask me.

The fact is that the PSB stand against all of this, so it's quite right that people like that should slag us off. Because we hate everything that they are and stand for. We hate it because it's stultifying, it says nothing, it is big and pompous and ugly. We hate it for exactly the same reasons Johnny Rotten said he hated dinosaur groups in 1976.

Well the God I believe in isn't short of cash, mister

lmao

I can't tell the difference between ABC news, Hill Street Blues and a preacher on the old time gospel hour stealing money from the sick and the old.

thank god for this album though because '91-'98 was some really good backtracking.

I mean, if the album tracks are as pleasant-innocuous as "In God's Country" I can stand to listen to, say, "Heartland" and "Van Diemen's Land."

not sure The Fly was an improvement on this, also that was when he began wearing the wraparound shades

it was a pretty big improvement

after this album Bono basically put wraparound shades around his voice

ONE HUNDRED
TWO HUNDRED
and I can see those fighter planes
and I can see those fighter planes

Rock critics liked RAH because

But did critics like it? I don't remember reading any raves from that time.

The Fly was a hell of a raising of one's game

musically better?

thank god for this album though because '91-'98 was some really good backtracking.

― christmas candy bar (al leong), Tuesday, November 19, 2013 12:44 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yeah, this. If this was what it took for Zooropa and Pop to happen, fine.

should probably just poll bono's bullet the blue sky monologue

Didn't it get contemporaneously panned in a way that no big release ever would since. Maybe The Spaghetti Incident?

I musta heard a different Fly

I think RS might've written a positive review, but that doesn't count.

The two things about this fucking album I will always remember:

1) Everyone's 'uh' reactions to it upsetting the bootlicker that is Robert Hilburn, leading to what is still my gold standard of absolutely godawful terrible music writing, TERRIBLE:

http://articles.latimes.com/1988-11-20/entertainment/ca-441_1_rock-band

2) The relatively undiscussed-in-comparison-to-the-other-bullshit "God Part II," for this reason: somewhere in some interview I can't immediately dig up from the time, Bono said he was always annoyed that U2 music didn't really get people dancing at clubs but that he was happy that he had seen some people in Dublin dancing to this one. With this in mind, I was all "Oh, okay then" and then I actually heard it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dvXG18ZA1I

And I was all "You motherfucker."

However, did I mention the 'hard metal dance mix' yet

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZPXOaVovQA

Larry was never cuter though

i believe in love

terrible horrible record but "all i want is you" is throwaway gold and i will vote for it

I love that song. Van Dyke Parks' string arrangement is A+. Hit the sappy motherlode in Soderbergh's Contagion too.

Voted Van Dieman's Land because I love when Edge sings.

could never endorse "All I Want is You" because Bono is singing as if in a hospital bed recovering from a herniated bellybutton.

Guys, do yourself a favor and hit play on the regular "God Part II" about 12-13 seconds after doing the same on the remix. Cool call and response oozes into cacophony.

I want something like that Metallica thing where you could press a button and get Hetfield to growl "yeaaahhhh yeaaaahhhhh" but for Bono on this album

"shaaaaannteetowwwn"

"All I Want is You" was inexplicably my HS's prom theme, ten years after it was released. I had asked one of my friends who didn't have a date to go with me and she agreed, but at the prom we just danced in a big group with our other friends. When the end of the night came, we awkwardly paired up, neither of knowing how to dance, terrified of looking each other in the eyes lest either of us interpret this as anything more than platonic. I cursed Bono the whole song for making this experience last six and a half minutes.

larry at graceland

I mean, the class the year before us had "Good Riddance". Cliched yes, but an economical 2:30.

"and while they ahhhhhhhhhhhhhrguuuuuue"

Yikes xp. My school's prom was its first, with undefined etiquette. My group of friends were going to go as a group, but somehow there was a late undeclared change of policy and they all turned up in pairs, except me.

Never thought I got off lightly 'til now.

best thing about it is, it necessitated the ZOO era so it gets a pass from me.

"Edge, play the blues!"

*most non-bluesy guitar solo ever*

was there ever another half-live half-new songs album that was a big hit? lousy idea mind.

I had Under A Blood Red Sky on last night, it's quite sweet how Bono calls out "Guitar Hero" as Edge fucks up the break on Party Girl.

All I Want Is You is lovely.

True story: after I saw the movie in theaters (yeah, I did), I bought a concert movie T-shirt in the lobby (yes, I did that, too).

was there ever another half-live half-new songs album that was a big hit? lousy idea mind.

GNR Lies?

I stand by the film, it's a really good watch

i wonder if they read Neil Tennant's viewpoint before they went Zoo. sorta sounds like they might have done.

xp oh GNR lies mm yeah, i always thought that was an all-live album.

this is a song charles manson stole from the beatles

we're stealing it back

GNR Lies?

If "live" counts.

ok edge, play the blues

Film is hilarious. Music is execrable, only bearable as camp comedy

into the arms

i will not let you trick me into listening to any of this album.

Parts of the film are hilarious, but for the most part, it's just dull.

rock and roll
stops the traffic

god help me, i kind of like angel of harlem. if you ignore the lyrics, it is a very pleasant song!

Parts of the film album are hilarious, but for the most part, it's just dull.

The only thing I hate more than "Angel of Harlem" is jazz snobs whining about "But Birdland's on 52nd St.! I hope someone got fired for that blunder."

of america

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4gCY3-O9bI

by the way I voted for "Heartland" despite its preposterous motif because Edge's vocals are boss and so is Bono's falsetto howl at the end. put different beats on it and you're close to the sound, if not the vibe, of 90s U2.

I don't know many other songs that are rah rah about American geography written/played by foreigners, would be a good genre to mine.

Back when I was listening to this as a kid, I thought "John Coltrane and the Love Supreme" was the name of a group (like Derek and the Dominos). Did get A Love Supreme (and the Billie Holiday Lady in Autumn collection) in '91, so thanks for tip Mr. Vox!

You know what I've always wondered? If your friend calls himself Edge or Bono, is that something you get used to, or do you always chuckle to yourself every time you hang up the phone with them?

"See you later, Edge." (hangs up the phone) "Heh, Edge."

Pretty sure they're used to it by now.

i dunno - if i invented a name for myself when i was, what, 20(?) that actually stuck – I would be likely be cringing every single time i heard it. i give it even odds that whenever Bono hears his name a tiny voice in the back of his head says "my god that's obnoxious" - while taking pains to remain completely stone faced.

i think i wrote about this album in my 7th gr diary
vote goes to heartland but van diemen's land was my favorite at the time because i was obsessed with injustice at that age and also i liked it when the edge asked me to hold him

Haven't listened to it in over a decade, but I think I remember enjoying "Silver and Gold," but probably wasn't listening too closely to the lyrics.

At least he's not The Bono!

xp: Hyper-diligent critical fandom and U2 hatred nostalgia--welcome home! I saw the movie in a D.C. theater, and the screen just seemed massive, all grainy swirling gray celluloid. My friend Rick theorized that the movie was an intentional self-takedown of bloat, and any movie that opens with that particular cover of "Helter Skelter" makes the case.

I loved "Heartland" and "Van Damen's Land" in the movie, and "Sunday Bloody Sunday" without the drum intro. And pretty much Adam throughout. But I think I tried to sit through it again and couldn't. I vote none of the above.

apart HEIT

I still can't help but pronounce "South Africa" the way Bono does on that track. southafricá

Am I buggin' you? I don't mean to bug ya...

this thread is convincing me that i want to listen to rattle & hum

what's the garbled word after "heartland"? i stopped caring before the internet and i guess i could look it up, but i wonder what other people thought it was more than i wonder what the word actually is.

i dunno - if i invented a name for myself when i was, what, 20(?) that actually stuck – I would be likely be cringing every single time i heard it.

that's why it's important to give yourself the right name

Heartland soil? xp

Hey I was right!

aha! soil makes sense, and it also explains why i thought he was saying "sawyer" (which makes no sense at all)
glad to finally clear that up

I would like to set most of this album on fire

That would certainly be an... unforgettable fire

i really love this album

I don't know many other songs that are rah rah about American geography written/played by foreigners, would be a good genre to mine.

There's only one song, really:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5m-GUCSNxmc

I voted for "All Along the Watchtower". Best, worst...you figure it out

the rest is up to us

i should note that i didn't include two options which are on the album, and that is 'freedom for my people' by sterling magee (aka satan of satan and adam) and hendrix's version of the star spangled banner.

Question: would this record be better regarded were it only the studio tracks, particularly as this would eliminate Bono's douchey spoken bits?

Voted "God Part II."

I like "Desire" (or maybe I just like Larry's drumming on "Desire"). Mostly RAH makes me think of when I wrote a review of the film for my college paper and trashed it on all the predictable grounds, and some fanatic U2 fan looked up my phone number in the student directory and called and yelled at me. I HAVE A WHOLE WALL FULL OF U2 POSTERS AND YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT ART IS etc etc etc.

There was a precursor to Rattle & Hum called Outside It's America, I remember they aired it one New Years Eve on an apocalyptic night of music programming based around the last ever OGWT, they then showed a Grateful Dead Doc on the making of the Touch Of Grey video. I taped all of it an my mates and I watched it all over and over.

Anyway, this other doc was, I guess, filmed on the first leg of the JT tour and is more enjoyable.

this album is an abomination.

i love Outside It's America! it's all over the web; a much better doc than RAM.

*RAH, rather.

she moves in mysterious ways is utter shite, hardly an ungrade on this stuff.

All I Want is You.

Christgau's ratings of their discography is typically puzzling:

Boy [Island, 1980] C+
October [Island, 1981] B-
War [Island, 1983] B+
Under a Blood Red Sky [Island, 1983] A-
The Unforgettable Fire [Island, 1984] B+
Wide Awake in America [Island EP, 1985] B
The Joshua Tree [Island, 1987] B
Rattle and Hum [Island, 1988] B+
Achtung Baby [Island, 1991] Dud
Zooropa [Island, 1993] B-
Pop [Island, 1997] Dud
The Best of 1980-1990 [Island, 1998] *
All That You Can't Leave Behind [Interscope, 2000] A-
How to Dismantle an Atomic Bomb [Interscope, 2004] **

http://img1.etsystatic.com/004/0/6332229/il_570xN.389896479_9iia.jpg

lol xgau even says in one of those reviews 'i've never gotten this band'. dude's always been a europhobe though so him preferring their 'murrican records over their 90s isn't that surprising.

upgrade?

ranking the first three U2 albums at the top is pretty bog standard rockism isnt it

But the first three are their best, aside from Achtung Baby

Zooropa classic example of xgau fog of words.

The only way I can make a case for the first three as the best is that they sound so unlike what came after that it might as well be a different band. Also, "October" is like a whole-album deep cut, while the other two have their share of great deep cuts. "Fire" and beyond were big Cinemascope whole-album statements with attendant no longer underdogs ra-ra tours, so that stuff is harder to escape. Especially once Bono fully emerged not as frontman making an ass of himself but ass who happens to be a frontman.

making me come to terms with the fact that i never stopped loving 90's U2 is one of the things i am most grateful to ILM for

right on

I can't bring myself to vote for a live track, and with 'All I Want Is You' being so gosh darned long it's probably a straight shoot out between 'Desire' and 'Angel of Harlem'. The latter is fun and a guilty pleasure for me to sing along to but 'Desire' must be the best of a mediocre bunch (at least relative to everything else they did in the 1980's).

Did All I Want Is You have a single edit? On the record it's the string coda that stretches it out, isn't it?

Yeah a string coda written by Van Dyke Parks- actually quite a lovely piece but just not right for the record. Never owned the single but Discogs does inform me there is a 4:14 cut single edit on a couple of releases out there.

yeah I dunno: it's always reminded me of one of those Eagles songs whose very modest charms expire as soon as it goes past the four-minute mark.

What does "Helter Skelter" have to do with American roots music?

Terry Melcher.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

I actually like this album/movie, should I show myself out?

http://www.craftsandmorestore.com/images/1-29-12/BROTHERS%20FOR%20LIFE.JPG

y'all that's just S-A-D pathetic

i think the movie suffers from the album tie-ins and the album suffers from the movie tie-ins. think there's some great live performances, 90% of everything else could've been left on the cutting room floor. there might've been an interesting movie to be made about a band at the moment they were becoming the biggest act in music (though this was probably just after that moment right? after it became apparent how huge joshua tree was gonna break) and there might've been one to be made about a european band finding massive success as they tour america but w/ a band like u2 that were so focused on being the biggest act in music and especially focused on the american market it would've required something far more cynical than anything paul mcguinness was gonna sign off on. i love 'all i want is you', would place it pretty high on any u2 ballot of mine (esp for the last few minutes, love edge's solo, love love love van dyke park's strings). probably like 'angel of harlem' more than most here, love bono's vocals on it (really belts it out), the one time u2 + memphis yields something lively. 'heartland' and 'god part ii' interesting as the last time they worked in that mid to late 80s style, 'heartland' is alright but would've worked better as a b-side to 'red hill mining town' or whatever the fifth single from joshua tree would've been. 'god part ii' sounds ok i gues but groan the lyrics, i think the bono 'i have come to reclaim the honor of john lennon' stuff on this album annoys me way more than the blooze. 'desire' is alright if not great (i liked it better on the zoo tv tour), the rest is dull and useless. the covers they did on a couple of b-sides were more fun and more interesting as examples of 'u2 and america' than anything on the album or in the movie. odd how each decade of u2 ends w/ some high profile flop that's a somewhat self-parodic version of the stuff ppl were lapping up just a little while before. i suspect each is not nearly as bad as their rep (not that i'm about to listen to r&h or no line on the horizzzon to find out) but pop's the only one i'll actually defend.

do you pop an adderall before you do a post like that?

If dictionaries had soundtracks, this album would be the choice for self-aggrandizing.

"All I Want Is You"

i dunno - if i invented a name for myself when i was, what, 20(?) that actually stuck – I would be likely be cringing every single time i heard it. i give it even odds that whenever Bono hears his name a tiny voice in the back of his head says "my god that's obnoxious" - while taking pains to remain completely stone faced.

Bono doesn't have tiny voices in his head, only massive booming ones

Minor point perhaps but Bono didn't give himself that name. It was a nickname before it was a stage name. Could have been worse: The gang had a ritual of nickname-giving. Bono had several names: first, he was "Steinhegvanhuysenolegbangbangbang",[27] then just "Huyseman", followed by "Houseman", "Bon Murray", "Bono Vox of O'Connell Street", and finally just "Bono".

xp Great post balls

Album would have greatly benefited if the b-sides were swapped out with some of the turds. "Everlasting Love" is an OK song and I like the "Dancing Barefoot" cover. The "One Tree Hill" outtake from the movie is killer.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

i wonder if u2 would've been as big if bono went by Bon Murray

obviously they would've been twice as big if he went by Steinhegvanhuysenolegbangbangbang

61 votes for an album that most people seem to hate!

I do feel somewhat bad for "Love Rescue Me" and somewhat less so for "When Love Comes to Town," which will always evoke memories of it being on the radio while my sister and I driving to high school one morning and her screaming at me to "turn this shit off!"

How many of the votes are for live and/or covers? I can't be arsed to check.

(Sorry for appropriating British culture, even more so for doing it poorly, I think.)

God Part II beating Heartland seems like a very U2 thing to happen

looking at these poll results makes my head hurt.

61 votes for an album that most people seem to hate!

results ordered from least-to-most contemptible.

B-side to "All I Want Is You":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1j_vyQrWO4

They're an inexplicably bad covers band. They've recorded so many and I can't think of one that I like except maybe the weird baggy hip hip Can't Help Falling in Love.

"Hip hip" of course being an obscure offshoot of hip hop popular with stadium acts in the early 90s.

Hurrah!

In fairness the band admitted in the Flanagan book that they were crap at covers; the R&H experience made them suspicious too.

It's weird though. I don't understand why they're so bad at them.

I want to say they did an OK "Sat of Love" and "Dancing Barefoot." The Cole Porter thing is OK.

I don't understand why they're so bad at them.

One reason is that all these decades later I'm still not sure Edge can play guitar, bless 'im.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiSPNaQNGOY

Oh yeah, that one is good enough.

One reason is that all these decades later I'm still not sure Edge can play guitar, bless 'im.

But he's been like the only good thing about U2 for the last 20 years

Actually scratch that, I don't know any U2 songs from the last 20 years but when I saw a live broadcast of a gig of theirs from some festival or other, he was the only good thing about them

One does not negate the other. But I would not want The Edge in my cover band, unless I was a U2 cover band.

i love their 'night and day' even though the 'niiiiight and daaay' at the end is the epitome of goddamit bono. kinda thrilling at the time, when you had no idea what the hell u2 were going to sound like you just knew they had to sound different. didn't care for their 'unchained melody' but i enjoyed their 'everlasting love' and 'dancing barefoot' (more than much of the originals on the album). the b-side covers from achtung baby otoh are some of the worst shit i've ever heard.

I like the Patti Smith cover too (my first exposure to it and her). To their credit they don't change the pronouns and Bono makes it work anyway.

One does not negate the other. But I would not want The Edge in my cover band, unless I was a U2 cover band.

ahah. actually is there any good musician in this band ?

poor u2 ;_;

kinda thrilling at the time, when you had no idea what the hell u2 were going to sound like you just knew they had to sound different.

This is otmfm. Wasn't "Night & Day" their first post-R&H release? I don't remember it getting much (or any) airplay on the mainstream AOR stations, but the slightly, erm, "alternative" station played it a fair amount, and man, what a breath of fresh air after hearing "Angel of Harlem" for a solid goddamn year.

yeah that is otm, I remember MTV hyping the video as something kinda shocking, which yeah after all the black and white it seemed to be. looking back it's another cover of a classic American song, so not really that much of a leap. but it really felt like one at the time (or at least to 16 year old me for whom U2 was the Most Important Band in the World)

Larry Mullen, apparently like the drummer from Coldplay, is, according to Brian Eno, astoundingly good at keeping time, down to the millisecond. New Yorker article two years ago:

Early this winter, I joined Eagleman in London for his most recent project: a study of time perception in drummers. Timing studies tend to be performed on groups of random subjects or on patients with brain injuries or disorders. They've given us a good sense of average human abilities, but not the extremes: just how precise can a person's timing be? "In neuroscience, you usually look for animals that are best at something," Eagleman told me, over dinner at an Italian restaurant in Notting Hill. "If it's memory, you study songbirds; if it's olfaction, you look at rats and dogs. If I were studying athletes, I'd want to find the guy who can run a four-minute mile. I wouldn't want a bunch of chubby high-school kids."

The idea of studying drummers had come from Brian Eno, the composer, record producer, and former member of the band Roxy Music. Over the years, Eno had worked with U2, David Byrne, David Bowie, and some of the world's most rhythmically gifted musicians. He owned a studio a few blocks away, in a converted stable on a cobblestoned cul-de-sac, and had sent an e-mail inviting a number of players to participate in Eagleman's study. "The question is: do drummers have different brains from the rest of us?" Eno said. "Everyone who has ever worked in a band is sure that they do."

"I was working with Larry Mullen, Jr., on one of the U2 albums," Eno told me. " `All That You Don't Leave Behind,' or whatever it's called." Mullen was playing drums over a recording of the band and a click track—a computer-generated beat that was meant to keep all the overdubbed parts in synch. In this case, however, Mullen thought that the click track was slightly off: it was a fraction of a beat behind the rest of the band. "I said, `No, that can't be so, Larry,' " Eno recalled. " `We've all worked to that track, so it must be right.' But he said, `Sorry, I just can't play to it.' "

Eno eventually adjusted the click to Mullen's satisfaction, but he was just humoring him. It was only later, after the drummer had left, that Eno checked the original track again and realized that Mullen was right: the click was off by six milliseconds. "The thing is," Eno told me, "when we were adjusting it I once had it two milliseconds to the wrong side of the beat, and he said, `No, you've got to come back a bit.' Which I think is absolutely staggering."

" `All That You Don't Leave Behind,' or whatever it's called."

hero

Although no singles were released from the album in the United States the song "Who Wants to Be a Millionaire?", covered in a techno style by Thompson Twins, received regular airplay on San Francisco's Live 105 (KITS). This was one of the two songs not to have a video counterpart. U2's cover of "Night and Day" reached #2 on the Modern Rock Tracks chart, and presaged the electronic sound the band would explore on Achtung Baby the following year.

That thing about Larry is pretty amazing. I think it could also be from having played with the same guys for 20+ years, and knowing when it doesn't feel right.

I've said a nice thing about your drummer, so can i have some more money now, Bono?

just remembering how much i loved Night And Day, along with much of the album/ TV special it came from; the original Red Hot And Blue.

when I saw them in late '01 on the last date of their Elevation tour (they opened and closed in MIami) Butch Vig was "sick" so Mullen drummed for Garbage. He was terrific, especially on "Only Happy When It Rains."

a good 70% of Red, Hot and Blue is amazing

Neneh Cherry's "I've Got You Under My Skin" is astonishing

Is that the video with the skintight suit?

Yes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29J2B2FIgt0

very fond of Fine Young Cannibals' "Love For Sale" and O'Connor's "You Do Something to Me"

Red Hot + Blue: THE POLL

oh I had never noticed "night and day" : a huge change after R&H indeed !

re. Mullen, I kinda thought he would be the best musician in the band (which doesn't say much considering the others) but had no idea he was highly regarded.

One does not negate the other. But I would not want The Edge in my cover band, unless I was a U2 cover band.

As a Chicagoan, Josh in Chicago must be aware of that street-fest staple...

http://www.usacoverbands.com/Bands/Elevation%20-%20the%20U2%20tribute%20band/newlogo1.jpg

lol they should really be called Delusion

Hawkmoon 269 still rules fyi

i didn’t know ppl hated u2 until i joined ilx and it made me wonder if i liked them as much as i thought i did and the answer is YES lol ie gospel breakdown in “still haven’t found what i’m lookin for” still lives rent-free in my 13 yo subconscious i think


although: R&H version of helter skelter was the first version i knew (bc my mum abhorred “weird” beatles so no white album exposure til much later) but listening now as a fully formed adult i’m like “jesus christ larry could you make it any more plodding?” it’s so sloooow and dull

VG I almost revived this thread yesterday because I listened to the rattle and hum episode of “you talkin U2 to me?” they pointed out U2 stole back helter Skelter from Charles Manson but then kept it for themselves rather than returning it to the Beatles.

They and Lance bangs are spent an hour plus talking amongst themselves about everything but rattle and hum before finally getting around to it.

lmao

also there has never been a funnier punchline in all of music than
EDGE PLAY THE BLUES
[_Edge does not play the blues_]

i read Bono’s memoirs a couple of weeks ago & have been listening back to old albums

this one definitely the most vivid for me

i guess apparently i played this 24/7 in 1988? but when i hear it all i can picture is doing homework in my bedroom v evocative hm yes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIUPgqnc0Zc

WELL THE GOD I BELIEVE IN ISNT SHORT OF CASH

MISTER

forget what I voted for. Might go with ‘heartland’ today. Still rock this album periodically, can’t lie. Three chords and the truth.

Van Diemen’s Land is so good

Yeah that and Hawkmoon as you mentioned are the gems

it’s a dumb thought exercise but i always wonder what they would’ve done after this if they hadn’t done the hard pivot

i mean i love achtung etc

but i love so much how expansive & jangly & romantic they sounded ~before~ this

I know saying Joshua Tree is the best is the most basic opinion but every time I hear it, it just sounds so great

i feel that! i think for me it’s either Boy or Unforgettable Fire but JT is awesome

Seeing "Where the Streets Have No Name" in a basketball arena basking in a two jumbo Budweiser glow is a fond memory

i still haven’t seem them live
i had tickets for the 2010 tour that they canceled for bono’s back injury :/

I'm not at all a U2 hater, but this record is half mediocre and half terrible. I honestly would have voted for "Freedom for My People" if it were included.

Always loved Van Dieman’s Land, especially because it was in a sweet spot for my voice and is easy for me to sing.

Bullet the Blue Sky my favorite overall - Bono’s best sermon.

I CAN SEE THOSE FIGHTER PLANES
I CAN SEE THOSE FIGHTER PLANES…

didn't mean to BUG ya

A field recording of a casual street blues performance ending up on a transatlantic 80s no. 1 album not even being in the top five most ridiculous things about this album

I *love* the Promo Mix of Desire btw. It's the Hollywood Mix but even longer! A proper long passage of Larry's antmusic! Like to '88 what Leppard's Rocket was to '87

THAT SAID there's a soul singer added which is a very 1985 simple minds thing to do (damn you iovine!) but honestly in a lengthy track as abstract as this she becomes part of the goofiness rather than as a soul/passion/honesty/whatever stamp.

https://www.nodepression.com/okay-edge-play-the-blues-an-oral-history-of-the-night-u2-jammed-with-stevie-ray-vaughan-at-antones/

in retrospect achtung baby wasn’t really that hard a pivot

god pt ii could have been on it; ultraviolet could have been on an earlier record; the lyrics are still about god and love

the biggest difference was bono adopting his pseudo jaded persona, but there was almost no choice after having taken the earnest pomposity to such extremes on rattle and hum

xpost wow thx for sharing!

Bono didn't show up when I saw the Chills at Antone's the other weekend

🖼

oof: https://pitchfork.com/news/arcade-fires-win-butler-accused-of-sexual-misconduct-by-multiple-women-frontman-responds🕸/

Whoops ignore that - slip of the thumb.

I was 10 when R&H came out and U2 were my favourite band but it really left very little impression. Especially compared to The Joshua Tree and Achtung, both of which I had on tape and played constantly.

I loved “Desire” when I first heard it on the radio. I still dig it somewhat, but the rest of the album (with maybe an exception or two) just sounds like a Big Rock Band celebrating the fact that they are now indisputably a Big Rock Band, and “won’t you join us in celebrating our newly-congealed Big Rock Band status?” I mean, I’m happy for you guys, but I can’t relate.

I agree with mookieproof that Achtung Baby wasn’t the wackadoodle 180 it’s often made out to be (and was hyped as at the time); Zooropa and Pop feel much more daring, and Achtung was the transitional record.

I disagree, I think "Achtung Baby" is/was a big change, it's just so solid and was so impactful that it sounds so familiar now. Me, I remember the first time I heard "The Fly," which was the first single, and literally thinking "this is not what I expected." The same is true for a lot of the arrangements and sounds. I don't know if "Zooropa" is more daring, it's just more stark/spare, with fewer places to hide, which only makes it seem weirder, imo. "Pop" is fine, but it's kind of like a half-assed/not fully formed "Achtung."

Definitely agree that Pop isn’t as fully formed as Achtung. But I remember the first time I heard “The Fly” and thinking, “…that’s it? That’s the radical reinvention?” It felt like they were just on the edge of a certain area of risk-taking without actually taking those risks. I do like the song (and the album), but it didn’t strike me as a fundamental reassessment of their approach. When Zooropa came out (and I agree re: fewer hiding places) it was what I’d hoped Achtung had been.

Well (and I'm sure this has been discussed on 100 ILX threads), I'd say the biggest differences with "Achtung" are its sonic palette (effects on everything), its density, its focus on rhythm, the shift away from Americana (in spirit) to Europe (in theory), all sorts of formal changes that make it sound less like four guys in a room (tm) and more a huge production. Writing-wise, it's got a real "dark night of the soul" vibe that the band never explored previously, or at least not as a prolonged mode. While it's easy to imagine a couple of these songs appearing on earlier albums in different forms, there are also a bunch that wouldn't have fit in anywhere else.

My contribution: Bono had not written so well as a lyric writer before Achtung Baby. Something like "Until the End of the World" wasn't even possible two years earlier.

The "effects on everything," which I like, sounded to me like, "Do your regular thing, then we'll put effects on everything afterwards." Zooropa and Pop felt like they started from something other than the 4-guys-in-a-room approach -- they now had a new sonic palette, they were excited about it, and they wrote from that basis, rather than sticking it on later. Definitely a few songs that couldn't have happened earlier, though, regardless of instrumentation/arrangement, and yeah, Bono's lyrics were free from the occasional (or more) clumsiness on previous records.

Unrelated (but of course, related), I just read that Larry needs surgery so is out for 2023, which means if the band does anything it'll likely be, for the first time, without him.

Yep:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arts-entertainment/2022/11/28/u2-kennedy-center-honors/

Then there is Mullen. “The bulls--- detector,” says Clayton. He is largely self-trained as a drummer, a powerhouse who now struggles with the physical toll of a lifetime of pounding. He’s the least public of the group’s four members, by far. The interview he gave for this story was, he said, his first in seven years. He’s blunt — he says if the band plays live in 2023 it will probably be without him, as he needs surgery to continue playing — and admits the dynamics in the band are not the same as they were decades ago. As the ’80s wore on and U2’s stature grew, band decisions would be made by what they called the “Politburo,” named after the policymaking committees in most communist systems. In Mullen’s view, the system that served the band well for so long has now become more of a benevolent dictatorship.

“You only do this if you’re having the best time,” Mullen says. “And not everyone is going to make it because the price is so high. So I think the challenge is for more generosity. More openness to the process. I am autonomous and I value my autonomy. I don’t sing from the same hymn sheet. I don’t pray to the same version of God. So everyone has their limits. And you only do this if it is a great time you’re having, you know?”

I hope it's not his back again. And touring without him would be a dick move.

Some of the songs were somewhat more traditional but I think there was a bit more to the album than some extra effects and more forward-thinking production. But at the same time one can’t underrate U2 being a fairly forward thinking art rock adjacent group from ‘84-‘87. Rattle and hum was probably more a diversionary path than it was the natural post Joshua Tree trajectory. AB feels like a better progression from JT if you remove R&H. I wouldn’t want to remove R&H though, and actually I think Bono nails a few good lyrics on this (despite the frequent callbacks to needles, hotel rooms, John Coltrane, saxophones iirc.) Heartland is quite good in that respect.

Also can’t diminish All I Want Is You, which felt like a familiar classic the first time I heard it. Arguably the best U2 album closer maybe? Though I will stan for the moody trio Love is Blindness/the wanderer/wake up dead man.

and admits the dynamics in the band are not the same as they were decades ago

Huh. Who knew?

I’d go so far as to argue that Love Is Blindness is not only in the Top 3 of U2 album closers, but that it might be one of Bono’s best ever lyrics.

I only saw them once, on the Zooropa tour in London, and even though it was super impressive, the set design felt so crazy and they looked lost to me on that stage.

It came across so much better on the live video, but the graphics during Love is Blindness, falling through these slowly rotating star maps (or whatever they were) were absolutely perfect.

The Zoo TV version of Love Is Blindness is my favourite U2 track of all

I have many thoughts about Achtung as a departure/otherwise but I was recently trying to turn them into an essay that I abandoned. Here's incentive!

Rattle & Hum is incredibly on/off for me for 50 minutes but once it gets to Heartland it gets really good and stays that way. Even the lyrics of God Part II don't bother me when I'm listening.

Phil Joanou’s excellent website (watch his USC student films!) has a few outtakes from the film. Hours of it were bootlegged shortly after it came out, and I’m frankly stunned that the film hadn’t gotten a deluxe HD reissue from Paramount

https://www.philjoanoudirector.com/

that WaPo article is kinda bad – errors and inaccuracies

so . . . had no one involved with the film or band seen 'spinal tap' or what

poor larry having to go on record about a 'car salesman who luvved to play guitar'

Rattle and Hum has to be like the maximally opposite film to This is Spinal Tap

WHARES B.B.?

remember how every Dodge Omni came with a copy of this LP in the back seat?

bono was really on one for the denver live tracks: helter skelter, silver and gold, sunday bloody sunday, pride. some solid grade-A bono venting/musing/proclaiming.

?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUtKe8hnmm8

Setting the stage for "Bono on Broadway."

I camped outside all night to get tickets for this show when it came to Denver. I hadn't got halfway to the front of the line before they announced that tickets were sold out. I've never done that again, and to this day I still have (probably irrational) feelings of resentment towards U2 for it.

Is Rattle and Hum the biggest album of the, idk 20th century, to have never been properly re-released? In the sense that, afaict, those buying the album today will be buying the version from 1988. Shit album or no, it sold 14 million. It does look like Japan have had a basic audiophile CD remaster at one point but I'm not counting that.

I get why no doubt. It's not just that U2 (and many others) dislike the album (though the band's cold feet around Zooropa and Pop are probably why they've never had the deluxe program either) - Paramount own the film and you can't really do a R&H set without it and it's probably a bit difficult.

It's definitely weird which albums U2 has de-emphasized in their history. I think to an average fan, R&H is kind of a classic in many respects. For me, it's the one album of theirs that would really benefit from a Neil Young style reissue, taking all of the studio tracks and stray studio tracks from the same era and creating a new album.

Is Rattle and Hum the biggest album of the, idk 20th century, to have never been properly re-released? In the sense that, afaict, those buying the album today will be buying the version from 1988. Shit album or no, it sold 14 million.

Probably? Getting all #onethread here, but Tom Petty's Full Moon Fever (from '89) has never been properly reissued. MCA only redid the Torpedoes --> Long After Dark Run for him, possibly stopping due artist indifference and/or the industry downturn.

Don Henley's '80s albums never got upgraded either, although I imagine a big part of that is down to Henley.

Due to all the recent hoopla around the Streisand memoir, I got to thinking that she might one of the few major artists to never really get a major catalogue overhaul outside of comps and box sets.

Also the two original Warner Bros. Jane's Addiction albums -- although those are on a way lower commercial stratum than those albums.

Add them here(!): Album You'd Most Like To See Remastered

I don't know if we actually want to see these albums remastered tho. ;-)

I wonder if there's something with certain Poppy Bush Interzone/Transitional LP/Cassette --> CD-era albums where the labels/archival people feel the releases were fine as-is? I picked up Full Moon Fever used on CD shortly after Petty died and thought it sounded fine, mastered at a good volume (certainly not brick-walled!), had a proper booklet w/lyrics & such...

The U2 thing is weird because as already stated they've reissued everything else, and yet didn't piggy-back material from R&H into the Joshua Tree sets like they did to Zooropa into the expanded Achtung Baby.

Also: didn't they finally get the movie rights back? I seem to recall stories about outtake footage getting scanned and restored.

Kevin Gray remastered Nothing's Shocking for Audio Fidelity back in 2012. I haven't compared them, but I think the original CD was already done well:

https://www.discogs.com/release/3684699-Janes-Addiction-Nothings-Shocking

And also yes re: Full Moon Fever, the original CD was done very well too, so much that the audiophiles have said it's preferable to MFSL's old reissue.

I don't think Rattle & Hum needs to be remastered honestly, not unless you need to have it on vinyl. That was done when CD's became THE dominant format, so it was mastered with that in mind, with none of the compromises needed to fit it on to vinyl. It's not like they spared any expense in mastering it either given their stature at that moment. (and tbh, I only listen to a few songs from it anyway, all of which I stuck on a compilation.)

I don't know if we actually want to see these albums remastered tho. ;-)

Extremely good point (per my complaint here: Continuing with CDs?)

Oh wait... I was making the opposite point... lol

...per other people's points in rebuttal to mine!!

Also: didn't they finally get the movie rights back? I seem to recall stories about outtake footage getting scanned and restored.

AAANGEELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

Not going to lie, I don't change the station when that comes on.

I aim my car at the first boomer when that comes on.

It takes a while to get there, but once R&H gets to "Heartland" it gets really good and stays really good

oh, don't get me wrong, I hate every minute of the very silly Angel of Harlem while it's playing, but my lizard brain can't deny its simple pleasures. it's a well put together track. I like it a lot better than When Love Comes to Town.

I like that song (corny as it may be)… the horns are great, and the chorus is undeniable

(Angel, not Comes to Town)

I went to jr high school in Harlem, so I know whereof I speak. Song is terrible

I enjoy "Angel of Harlem," the Memphis Horns are great, but it's also blatantly ridiculous in typical U2 fashion. It's a tribute to Billie Holiday that mentions Miles Davis and John Coltrane's A Love Supreme (neither of whom are strongly identified with Holiday), and yet U2 makes a record that sounds like a tribute to soul music rather than jazz of any kind. U2 recorded a lot of dilettantish nonsense from this era, so par for the course I guess.

Blame the record company

Shoulda been a killer EP

Heartland is a pretty spectacular and eerie track, it plays completely to their strengths. Hawkmoon is almost as great. Desire and God Pt II are pretty 🤘 and AIWIY feels pretty effortless and classic though I might not consider it as grade A as some for whatever reason.

The full promo mix (extended version of the hollywood mix) of Desire is fantastic - squaring that Bo Diddley failproof with Adam Ant open drum lattices and Steinskiesque samples. I can even forgive the misplaced Once Upon a Time-ish addition of soul singer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScQ8aCu2xJY

“Desire,” that’s the one where edge plays the E string for a minute and collects a mill

Good song.

Had a real #onethread moment tonight. I went to see Bruce Cockburn, and with "Rattle and Hum" at least rattling around in my brain a little, realized that it's Cockburn that Bono is referencing in "God Part II" when he sings "Heard a singer on the radio late last night/Says he's gonna kick the darkness till it bleeds daylight." "Got to kick at the darkness till it bleeds daylight" is from Cockburn's "Lovers in a Dangerous Time."