Pazz & Jop 2013

http://www.villagevoice.com/pazznjop/

"Did Kanye release an album this year? Yes? OK, we'll go with that."

i wanna snrub you hard on the sink

Piss and Jop
Why are people finally paying attention to R. Kelly's many crimes?
By Jim Derogatis

There is no way they cleared that headline with Jim

That's showing me last year's site?

Unless Frank Ocean and Carly Rae Jepsen won again.

i just refreshed and it looks like the pages i was looking at are being turned back to the 2012 poll for now, false alarm haha

awwwwwww

Weird. What won tracks?

i'll dole out some stuff i remember seeing, though:

Beyonce's album (which was released 12 days before ballots were due) placed at #4

Arcade Fire missed the top 10

"Get Lucky" obv #1 single

1 Kanye West, Yeezus
Def Jam Points: 1991
Mentions: 160
2 Vampire Weekend, Modern Vampires of the City
XL Points: 1342
Mentions: 109
3 Daft Punk, Random Access Memories
Columbia Points: 833
Mentions: 76
4 Beyoncé, Beyoncé
Columbia Points: 736
Mentions: 57
5 Chance the Rapper, Acid Rap
none Points: 672
Mentions: 63
6 My Bloody Valentine, m b v
m b v Points: 624
Mentions: 61
7 Haim, Days Are Gone
Columbia Points: 598
Mentions: 62
8 Janelle Monáe, The Electric Lady
Bad Boy Points: 510
Mentions: 51
9 Kurt Vile, Wakin on a Pretty Daze
Matador Points: 502
Mentions: 46
10 Kacey Musgraves, Same Trailer Different Park
Mercury Nashville Points: 489
Mentions: 43

Let's relive the nightmare again of Frank Ocean winning the poll.

Chance at #5!

http://www.villagevoice.com/slideshow/pazz-n-jop-best-singles-of-2013-40816810/#25

^ not rolled back to 2012, finally a useful slideshow

not working

i was gonna say something like "get lucky, the song everyone apparently loves but no one's really crazy about" but maybe people actually are crazy about it? maybe they don't actually listen to the radio and didn't get sick of it within two weeks? idk it's weird to me. i thought it was a pretty good song, i'd listen to it when it came on, and now the thought of it gives me a headache. part of it's the overplayedness but it also just wears thin really quickly

yay for chance tho

"Get Lucky" was pretty resilient for me, i think i willingly listened to it more (didn't change the station when it came on or pressed play on it myself) when it was 6 months old than when it was new.

Very professional. Albums link goes to 2012.

Normal behavior. It happened a few times in the last few years.

even with Vaempsy WEekee in there that's probably the best/least corny P&J top 5 in a long time imo

tbf the issue's street date is tomorrow so i think the stuff that people have caught online already are not really 'official,' we can complain if links aren't working tomorrow

pazz and jop takes a while to update every year iirc

singles 1-25:

daft punk
lorde
haim
kanye - new slaves
thicke
drake
kanye - black skinhead
icona pop
miley - we can't stop
kanye - bound 2
arcade fire
timberlake
tegan and sara
ciara
miley - wrecking ball
phosphorescent
kacey - follow your arrow
vampire weekend
janelle monae
james blake
disclosure - latch
migos
parquet courts
vampire weekend
sky ferreira - i blame myself

http://furia.com/pjs/index.html

^^ the stats

Bowie, Arcade Fire, Neko Case, Fucking Drake out of the top ten = all's right

i'd die of embarrassment if i was a statistical centrist, like well done you have the most boring taste of everyone pureed

as ever more interested in looking at individual lists than the entire thing. hi 5s to shipz and deej, who is steve kiviat??

haha I'm one notch below Ryan Schreiber -- first time ever!

i am also approximately a gazillion times more hyped for the ilx poll!

lex, you should be proud of the Sevyn Streeter company: Alex Macpherson · Alfred Soto · David Drake · Lindsey Rhoades

would be cool if everyone here who had a P+J ballot also submitted an ILX ballot (even the same list!)

is there an only-nominated-items restriction?

6 of the top ten albums are in my own top ten and 7 are in my top 20 :/

That's probably symptomatic of me not having a ton of time to dig this year tho.

xp yeah there is - but there are about 1,000 albums and 1,500 tracks nominated, and if you vote for something that isn't there it just gets skipped

I mean the album/track gets skipped, the rest of your ballot is counted.

Wait, how did Jason Isbell get into the top 20? Are there that many Drive-By Truckers fans out there?

Did Paste Magazine try to stage a coup?

He was #1 in American Songwriter magazine fwiw

lol

at the moment there are no votes being counted for Lady Gaga and R. Kelly's "Do What U Want" and my vote for it is being counted for Gaga's "Gypsy," which has 7 votes -- hopefully that'll be fixed soon, although given the DeRo essay I almost wanna make an accusation of foul play haha

do what u want with my ballot

omg i'm shocked and relieved, i thought that "thrift shop" would do really well based on p&j's including-votes-from-last-year thing

only one vote for any of my three favorite songs this year. not regretting not submitting a ballot tbh, and i used to be so excited.

Migos beat Macklemore. Any other fuck shit is excused.

3 songs in the top 10 songs from one artist is pretty unusual right? maybe not for kanye tho since he did it with his last album too. but i think before then the only time that had happened was w/ prince or something.

it looks like the original "Versace" and the Drake remix were counted separately, so really it should be prob be several spaces higher than it already is

yet the actual best song from yeezus wound up at 171, smh

yeah IIRC the only other albums to have 3 top ten singles were MBDTF and Sign O The Times, maybe a handful of others had 2 songs (xp)

i'm at least relieved "Blood On The Leaves" isn't one of the big 3, i always feel like i'm taking crazy pills when that song is talked about as a standout

I'm more pro-Drake than most people on here at this point (I think) and I still don't know why anyone would vote for Versace remix w/ Drake over the original, that is some shit I will never understand.

Also, poor Bangerz, only got one vote :(

afaict Bangerz got 8 votes (and its two big hits got a combined 56 votes)

I'll fix the "Do What U Want"/"Gypsy" thing, that was my fault. "Gypsy" has 5, "Do What U Want" has 3.

The Versace original version gets bonus credit for the remixes, per P&J rules, so that should be correct at #21 in my version.

totally embarrassed i forgot to add beyonce

lol @ 4 votes for amel larrieux being ilx dudes

i was going to ask how on earth "gypsy" got more votes than "do what u want" but it actually i completely understand ppl not wanting to vote for the latter now

The 'similar songs' stats are hilarious:

Songs
Song Year Rank Votes Remix Singularity
Zedd (ft. Foxes) · "Clarity" 2013 #105 5 0 1.000
Al Shipley · David Drake · J.D. Considine · Michelle Myers · Richard Torres
Similar Songs
.190 2 Sara Bareilles · "Love Song" (2008)
.083 2 Gucci Mane · "Lemonade" (2010)
.076 2 Chief Keef · "Love Sosa" (2012)
.057 2 Kelly Rowland (ft. Lil Wayne) · "Motivation" (2011)
.055 3 Sade · "Soldier of Love" (2010)
.050 2 Todd Terje · "Inspector Norse" (2012)
.048 3 Robin Thicke (ft. T.I. and Pharrell) · "Blurred Lines" (2013)
.041 2 Bruno Mars · "Locked Out of Heaven" (2012)
.038 2 Kreayshawn · "Gucci Gucci" (2011)

at least, when the sample size is so small

ahh thanks for clarification re: "Versace"

Sara Bareilles is definitely because of me

lol i like seeing songs/albums that only ilm ppl or singles jukebox ppl have voted for xp

cant lie that drake vote is kind of embarrassing for me. oh well

but especially since i didnt include beyonce smh

Very happy with that Kacey Musgraves #10 slot. My #1 of last year.

Similar albums for Matana Roberts · Coin Coin Chapter Two: Mississippi Moonchile (which is an awesome album btw):

.178 2 Scooter · Under the Radar Over the Top (The Dark Side Edition) (2009)
.178 2 Traband · Domasa (2010)
.160 4 Ke$ha · Animal + Cannibal (2010)
.148 2 Corsair · Corsair (2013)
.148 2 Rihanna · Unapologetic (2013)

Obviously I could cutoff the similarity things at a higher shared-vote threshold and make them more "similar", but then there would be a lot fewer of them, and I think it's more interesting this way...

I'm impressed by the votes for beyonce, damn!

4 only placed at #26

lol that matana roberts is a really great album though i'm kinda amazed/curious at how it became a breakout album - was there a high profile review or something? totally the kind of album npr should hype (not a dis)(in this case at least). that similar albums there is awesome though - 'if you like matana roberts you should check out scooter': top that spotify.

she was on the cover of the wire.

Yeezy tied with Bob Dylan for most p&j wins

ah thanks jb!

xp Dunno, feel she's been on the map since the last one. Wire features + being on Constellation + excellent and pretty accessible music = some kind of crossover appeal.

according to Molanphy: "That's winner No. 5 for him (every album but '808s' and, if you count it in his column, 'Watch the Throne'), breaking him out of an all-time P&J tie with ol' Zimmy.

it's always amusing now to go back the voice site and see just what a hollowed out ghost ship the voice has become, it's like they took the dullest posts from nymag.com and made a website.

graduation didn't win p&j

Rev otm

OK, "Do What U Want" and "Gypsy" should have their proper counts in my stats version now.

Oh, and I also made an Rdio playlist of all the songs that got at least 5 votes:

http://rd.io/x/QUPlBzMpGzg/

Incidentally, I did try the experiment of eliminating everybody who voted for Kanye and seeing what the other people's votes would add up to. Still Vampire Weekend and Daft Punk.

Entertaining and informative analysis as ever, Glenn.

Wish the Brandy Clark CD had finished higher than #49, but glad Ashley Monroe and as I mentioned before, Kacey Musgraves went Top 40. Also, 12 albums in Top 40 I haven't heard, but many below #40 that I have. Crazy year or just too much product to keep up with?

Musgraves at #10 got my attention. It's a great record and people certainly loved it, but I wouldn't have guessed it'd place that high.

Same general feeling about Chance at #5.

And the Pistol Annie's finished 144th, which was pretty darn low, but then the album didn't have the buzz their debut had. Looks like Clark finished #46 not #49.

Not working for me. Glad to see Chance in the top #5.

Wish the Brandy Clark CD had finished higher than #49

yeah i was hoping for that album to break out more than it did - the critics who heard it loved it but it didn't seem like it got much traction beyond that. i guess i can see why kacey musgraves is more marketable or charismatic or whatever but brandy clark's songwriting just floors me

i'm at least relieved "Blood On The Leaves" isn't one of the big 3, i always feel like i'm taking crazy pills when that song is talked about as a standout

Damn right. Pleased but surprised Chance and Kacey placed so high. That makes 6 of my choices in the Top 10, which I didn't expect, and I guess makes me one of Lex's hated centrists, although only one of my tracks went Top 10.

i was the sole voter for 5 of my tracks :(

i am also the only person who has ever voted for shanell in p&j. SORT YOURSELVES OUT everyone else

really quite into the historical statz that show you how artists fared in previous years!

specifically the-dream's recird makes for an irl lol

love/hate: 8 voters
love vs money: 37 voters
love king: 24 voters
iv play: 1 voter

that poor benighted soul clinging on to the terius shipwreck

If it's any consolation I've just made a playlist of all unfamiliar tracks on your ballot, plus Alfred, Marcello and somedude's. One great thing about glenn's stats binge is that you can still find surprises on individual ballots.

*record

also quite funny to see "i was one of the only voters for this artist this year...and last year...and the year before"

i kinda assumed Kacey would be top 10 ever since the album was released -- "Merry Go Round" was a top 25 single in last year's poll and her critical profile has skyrocketed since then. it only became clear to me that Chance The Rapper was gonna do really well last month when he showed up on way more magazine lists than i expected. gotta be by far the best a free mixtape never issued as an official retail release has ever done on P&J.

You're right, my surprise comes from being based in the UK, where Kacey is still niche. Of course in the US she has far more critical love.

i wasn't expecting k michelle to make a huge impact because [insert the usual complaints] but i'm disappointed that her album only got two votes, and her big single only one, considering that she made a legit commercial breakthrough

Surprised that Rhye votes outnumbered Quadron votes by such a wide margin (19-3).

disappointed by that, yeah, but given how much EOY list love rhye got and how little quadron got, not surprised :(

From song list via my ballot on the furia.com site.

Bunji Garlin (ft. Nigel Rojas) · "Differentology" 3
M.I.A. · "Come Walk With Me" 2
Mafikizola (ft. Uhuru) · "Khona" 0
Tamar Braxton · "All the Way Home" 0

Oh well.

how did i not know that was you!

forgetting to vote for afropop trax was my biggest regret. i don't really consider a 10-track ballot to be particularly legit though.

low votes for "differentology" only reflect badly on p&j, because that song was such a real-world anthem.

so how different this year was P&J from all the other big magazine albums of the year lists?
Judging by Kanye winning, not a lot?

yeah if you aggregated all the big mag/site lists, it would prob look a lot like P&J, perhaps even more than most other years

Only album in the top 40 that I have not a single note of is the one by Carcass. Not even on my radar! Good job, metal contingent.

*HEARD a single note of* obv.

might be because you dont like metal? ;)

So, curmudeon was the OTHER "come walk with me" voter :)

I'm waaaay past being crestfallen when I'm alone or almost alone in my choices, but yeah, it makes you think "does no one else realize this was great?"

i forgot to vote this year oops

it makes you think "does no one else realize this was great?"

how I felt about only three people voting for Fantasia

can't believe only one other person voted for "Imagine It Was Us"

also, Beyonce appears to have the most enthusiastic voters of any top 10 album by some margin?

i'm sure lack of dance tracks placing is due to lack of crossover but also curious to what extent lack of voters that might ostensibly form that block and lack of consensus within what there is of that block plays a role. r&b's never done particularly well and strength of country in recent years seems to be due at least somewhat to older p&j voters that have retreated to some extent into that genre. i'm curious if country picks up a higher percentage of <30 voters than it did ten, twenty, god knows thirty years ago.

I filed what felt like my most accessible ballot in years, particularly in songs where it was solidly and entirely pop. And I got 1 song which 2 other people picked, one that 1 other person picked, and 8 for which I was the only voter. Really nobody but me thought "Vagabonds" was great? Nobody else thought "Goodness Gracious" was amazing? I should be literally the person least surprised by the results, but somehow I'm always surprised by something.

i was the only voter for seven

curious to the extent the lack of consensus (beyond the top level, though possibly there also?) reflects lack of consensus in pop, death of monoculture, 'the internet' etc or is just a reflection of a larger voting pool

larger in years past, you mean?

the voting pool appears to have shrunk, as has the number of recordings being voted for, every year for the last few years. at the top level consensus seems to be stronger this year than some but not all other recent years (i.e. the years Tune Yards, Animal Collective and TV On The Radio won). at least that's what it looks like glancing at Glenn's stats, he'd know better than me whether that's the case.

The poll size has dropped over the years.

I encouraged southern soul blogger Daddy B. Nice to submit a ballot, but I don't think he did (and I doubt the Voice folks know who he is). I haven't checked to see if XChuckx also voted for Mel Waiters (maybe as a track)...

So the Voice is still working on the P & J tech bugs ...

ha by years past i mean like the 80s when half the voters were in the same area code as xgau

glancing at the critics who voted for the first time in 2013, looks like Kanye and Chance got the biggest boost from new blood (xp)

just thinking of when xgau could point at a low enthusiasm winner like imperial bedroom or odelay and use the numbers to 'prove' something about the deficiencies of said album. now i'm not sure you could do that, if the data is meaningful in that way.

i love that xgau penciled in artpop for some reason, but not as much as i love the ballot containing wayne shorter and kyary

the voting pool appears to have shrunk

No shit. Things like "The Ten Most Bangable Members of the New York Philharmonic" was the end of the line for me with the Voice. Not sure why anyone would want to help a publication associated with thing like that, even in a small P&J way.

The Dean would prob compare Yeezus to other Kanye wins, and it definitely won with a smaller % of votes than the others, but it's interesting that it had almost identical 'voter enthusiasm' to Dark Twisted Fantasy.

ARTPOP is beloved by the Christgau contingent.

tbf position position it's still up the air as to whether the voice is actually going to run pazz and jop this year!

haha yeah for now we're sending all the traffic to furia.com

The poll size has dropped over the years.

Going by Glenn's tables:

2013: 457
2012: 491
2011: 700
2010: 709
2009: 695
2008: 579

curious how much of that is due to the cuts in arts journalism jobs, how much is due to the death of blogging, and how much is due to the voice just completely destroying their brand

xpost And yet there's still so many people voting in this thing who've barely logged a clip in 2013

Did notice that; not that I care, at all, but I do see voters who haven't written about music for years.

Weird. When I got on PJ it was a total prerequisite, I remember the email from Chuck on that.

it's almost as if the standards have been relaxed as the poll lost half of it's voting base

well, how many publishing critics do you think there would be left if the current editors weren't still using chuck's old voter rolls?

less than a hundred?

not to put on my "old man whiney" hat, but it increasingly seems like the interview process for being a music writer in 2014 is "Are you twentysomething and do you talk to music writers on social media?"

"Do you tweet? Do your friends trust your music taste?"

i can't be bothered to care that MERE BLOGGERS and semi-retired hobbyists are voting -- if someone listens to enough music to have a ballot that isn't just "the ten albums i heard" and has written at some manner of professional level about it at some point, let 'em in, idgaf

i'd rather see a poll of a few hundred kinda-critics than of the, what, less than a hundred (?) critics that have hung onto music writing day jobs in the current climate (and have already gotten their opinion published in their own mag's year-end list).

al otm. i consider a lot of the non-professionals to be better critics, even if it's not their actual job, than a lot of professional ones

The Voice's version is back up now, and from my quick scan it looks like the data is right. May still be some formatting glitches (I don't see artist/title info on the individual album/song pages, for example...).

Essays and comments not opening.

Oh yeah, I'm not even talking about bloggers and hobbyists, that makes perfect sense. I thought I saw some people who, unless they do so in a place I'm unaware of, and I used to follow their writing in the past, literally haven't written anything about music in years. Maybe I'm wrong.

Essays working if you click on them after visiting albums and singles first.

I think Henry Rollins writing a terrible essay defending guitar music is the nail in the coffin for any remaining interest I have in guitar music.

Writing an essay about the guitar's relevance is the music writing equiv. of writing an essay about the relevance of straight white men.

"For me, though, the guitar, as well as the saxophone, are eternal instruments. They produce sounds that are as human as a fingerprint. Hendrix and Coltrane are my favorite musicians." "For me, though, the guitar, as well as the saxophone, are eternal instruments. They produce sounds that are as human as a fingerprint. Hendrix and Coltrane are my favorite musicians." "For me, though, the guitar, as well as the saxophone, are eternal instruments. They produce sounds that are as human as a fingerprint. Hendrix and Coltrane are my favorite musicians." "For me, though, the guitar, as well as the saxophone, are eternal instruments. They produce sounds that are as human as a fingerprint. Hendrix and Coltrane are my favorite musicians." "For me, though, the guitar, as well as the saxophone, are eternal instruments. They produce sounds that are as human as a fingerprint. Hendrix and Coltrane are my favorite musicians."

Okay, I'm done.

writing an essay about the relevance of straight white men.

they all need help!

Writing an essay about the guitar's relevance is the music writing equiv. of writing an essay about the relevance of straight white men.

yes because only straight white men play guitar

you sound like a republican, whiney

I feel no obligation to be relevant.

yes because only straight white men play guitar

― pfunkboy (Algerian Goalkeeper), Wednesday, January 15, 2014 9:52 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Why does one of the most common instruments (besides the human voice, if you count that) in pop music need its relevance to be proven?

you sound like a republican, whiney

― le goon (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, January 15, 2014 9:53 AM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

ha

i mean, there's guitar all over, for instance, pretty much all of the top ten Pazz & Jop albums. but only half of those albums are "by" a person or group who is frequently seen playing guitar. maybe that distinction matters to some people? not sure if it should. pretty much record has percussion without being a "drum album" or something stupid like that.

not to put on my "old man whiney" hat, but it increasingly seems like the interview process for being a music writer in 2014 is "Are you twentysomething and do you talk to music writers on social media?"

on the day when you have to stop yourself from saying "look, whether I give a shit about how well something's written has zero to do with me being older" because you know you'll be wasting your breath, give me a call and I'll introduce you to my useful little friend, Mr. Beer

the pudenda-grinding music that is being sold via MP3

Help, I think the Rollins essay broke me and now I can't tell if the "This was such a delightfully strange year in music that it's no wonder the album of the year seems to be a toss-up between a college dropout and four Ivy Leaguers." comment is sarcastic or not.

yeah i stared at that sentence for a good minute last night

what a delirious technicolor quilt of demographics this poll turned out to be, people who have achieved various levels of education!

"can't believe only one other person voted for 'Imagine It Was Us'"

hi

also, Beyonce appears to have the most enthusiastic voters of any top 10 album by some margin?

― "Gunplay" (ft. Gunplay) (Andre Gunder Frank 3000), Wednesday, January 15, 2014 9:28 AM (3 hours ago)

wonder how much of this is due to it being released close to the deadline, and people worrying it wouldn't be heard by enough people and giving it a few extra points on their ballot to help it out

k3vin k3ll3r beyonce rock critic slash fic

things that were surprising:

- "Imagine It Was Us" and "Come Walk With Me" getting so few votes.

- "I Blame Myself" outranking "You're Not the One," which is the correct ranking. This is kind of like that year everyone rallied around "Broken Record" off the Katy B album, which is also correct (well, for singles.)

things that were not surprising, but still disappointing:

- Only 10 votes for _True Romance_, only 5 votes for _Goldenheart_. both got shafted in almost every year-end list, but I still can't imagine why (well, for Dawn Richard I can sort of imagine why given its January release and lack of promotion, but still)

"Imagine It Was Us" almost made my cut but I already had "Aaliyah."

i'm actually surprised Dawn Richard got the same # of votes (and same enthusiasm score!) she got in 2012, Goldenheart ultimately seemed far less loved than Armor On.

yeah a lot of the people who loved armor on were just not into goldenheart which is a real shame, because it just needed...patience and time. the quality was definitely there but i can't blame people for not wanting to slog to get it. and now she's back in danity kane :(

"Imagine It Was Us" almost made my cut but I already had "Aaliyah."

this was 2012 surely? i was in the same position except i voted for "baby" and "real" instead. another argument for a bigger trax ballot...

Surprised "Need U" only got five votes. Wasn't it pretty huge in the UK (and thus would have gotten at least some traction among US critics)?

(but apart from disappointed armor on fans i also felt that dawn's independent status and her standing outside a lot of r&b trends made a lot of critics write her off as irrelevant without bothering to listen, as well)

December 2012 but I decided to save it for the next year as I'll certainly do with Beyonce.

"need u" was big and beloved over here but again, 10 is just not sufficient to cover everything that was beloved by me

one thing i've learned over the years is that saving something to vote for the following year never works out

yeah, same here. MAYBE if something just got released as a single and seems like it might become a big hit in the following year, but never with albums.

am I just a weirdo for thinking that "Buzzcut Season" is way, way, way better than pretty much everything else on Lorde's album?

it's definitely not irritating in the way a lot of the other songs are for me, although i haven't fallen in love with it

Tegan and Sara's Closer being so high kind of surprised me, but mostly because I keep associating that song with 2012 as opposed to 2013.

Opening few bars of buzzcut season remind me of the Walkmen

Agree with Lex that 10 is a very frustrating number to vote for but I guess with that volume of ballots doubling it to 20 would drive the pollrunners nuts.

I would happily tabulate it with 20 votes per voter.

That perception is due in large part to Yeezus, which is brash, angry, defiant, and bold. On it, the remnants of Gentle Kanye, the one who apologized to Taylor Swift post–VMAs and did the perp walk on Leno, are dead and gone; here, he chooses to turn up the ego that so many over the years have asked him to, please, for the love of all things soft and shiny and pure, turn down.

Honestly, would we want any other Kanye at this point? Would we want him to be a cowering apologist?

Does this author know what the word "apologist" means?

things that were surprising:

"Imagine It Was Us" and "Come Walk With Me" getting so few votes.

― katherine, Wednesday, January 15, 2014 10:49 AM (47 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

That was literally #11 on my list.

"Imagine It Was Us", I mean.

Sorry for being an apologist, but I hope you won't make me beg the question.

when katherine said a few weeks ago that she spent a day playing it over and over I thought YES THAT WAS ME IN JULY

apparently this is supposed to be beyonce

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/music/3color_beyonce2_400.jpg

!!!!!

http://www.wearysloth.com/Gallery/ActorsT/17127-19864.gif

His four wins tie him for most ever with Bob Dylan. Kanye, of course, did it in a fraction of the time with a much smaller body of work.

True enough, but I think the other guy might've nabbed two or three in the '60s, too--and he had pretty decent competition.

was the theme of these illustrations "famous musicians with intentionally misshapen noses"

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/music/3color_macklemore2_400.jpg

that's not a very good picture of vin diesel

This is Kacey Musgraves. I think the problem is that the artist doesn't know how to draw hair. Or draw.

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/music/3color_kasey_musgraves2_400.jpg

lol

i think that's linda perry in 1992

more like Joni Mitchell in 2052

that guitar looks like a melted dali clock

if they really wanted to use that aesthetic, why didn't they go all the way and just get the guy who illustrated scary stories to tell in the dark.

http://i43.tinypic.com/xkvrm9.jpg

lol

mick jaggers looking rough

"can't believe only one other person voted for 'Imagine It Was Us'"

If I'd voted, it would've been in my top 10. But I stopped voting when I stopped writing.

lol kerr

Tegan and Sara's Closer being so high kind of surprised me, but mostly because I keep associating that song with 2012 as opposed to 2013.

Fwiw, "Closer" didn't crack Billboard's airplay chart (Radio Songs) until June, and it peaked in October.

the ware track was top 10 in my ilm ballot!

Did notice that; not that I care, at all, but I do see voters who haven't written about music for years.

i voted this year. i took a few years off from music writing, but i'm back in the game -- i'm just staying away from reviews and working on longer-form projects.

yeah yeah me too

I've never had the list-making compulsion that grips CE and it seems a huge amount of music scribes: often I'll see people on the computer talking about what's going to make their top ten in like march or some shit…and my listening habits have never been focused on what records have come out during whichever year it happens to be, and it's been several years since the album as a discrete unit has meant anything important to me. so even in the 15 years that I worked steadily in the field, P&J was not a practical method indicating anything significant for me (incidentally, my most active years were working for a direct competitor to the VV, albeit one the VV looked down their nose at, so I generally didn't get sent ballots).

all that being said, I truly do not get why anyone cares about P&J now. In short order: CE was fired, and maybe a year afterwards, some New times functionary described P&J as "our great treasure," as if it was not something that dropped into Marc Lacey's lap that he and the other NT bigwigs would not consider terribly important. Then yet another beloved ILm-nik, MJ was hired and fired, and many of you have noted the debased condition of the VV above.

So why is this poll interesting to you guys? is it just the number-crunching and stats?

Probably for the same reasons that people vote for Oscars and GGs and the Baseball Hall of Fame - to feel important, to feel involved, to enshrine their tastes, a sense of community, talking shit and breaking bread with peers, etc.

it's not interesting

we're just attached to the possibility of music criticism still being interesting

It's not about "cultural significance" or whatever, at least in my mind...

Jackin Pop, we hardly knew ye

I don't consider myself very representative of ILM (I have never written about music professionally and never had a blog of any sort, nor have I ever been a DJ), but for me it's mostly habit and need for unchallenging content in empty moments at work. I do like music lists though, as much as I may be loath to admit it. I enjoy saying to myself "I can't believe 'Baby' placed so low!" and that sort of thing.

I think "beats sitting around waiting to die" is basically the answer although I don't participate in P&J or do anything more than scan the list and then read the ilx thread to see if anybody's saying something interesting

death must seem awful imminent then

Wow, and I thought I was depressive!

often I'll see people on the computer talking about what's going to make their top ten in like march or some shit…

i mean even for people who LIKE listmaking this is wildly embarrassing shit when someone does it

ah! Jackin' Pop! I think that the New times guy's "our great treasure" comment referred to MJ and BR's Idolator project. I was amused by the guy's umbrage w/r/t to something he had nothing to do with until very recently.

I don't have any involvement in the editorial process, but I think it's interesting to have a poll like this that is at least nominally bigger than one genre-focused outlet. I think it would be more interesting if it were even bigger, and less interesting if it didn't exist. I also think it's laudable that they have long published all the ballots for data-transparency. And I think the analysis this makes possible is also at least somewhat interesting. I find out about music I didn't know by poking around in it.

hey glenn, what's 'breadth'?

Breadth: how close a voter came to picking a different artist for every album/song slot in every voting year.

(See the gray sidebar on the right for explanations...)

oh! i didn't even see, it was so far over

even, like, ILX's interest in pazz and jop this year seems to have diminished greatly, some dude's 27 posts in this thread notwithstanding

I don't know why but the phrase "often I'll see people on the computer" makes me laugh

there's been this massive decentralizing of the notion of 'critical opinion' etc b/c of social media

I have photos of Christina Stead and T.S. Eliot up on my computer, so I see dead people.

Critical consensus and mechanisms of canonization in popular culture have long been fascinating to me, and Pazz & Jop -- by virtue of the volume and composition of the voting pool -- remains the best snapshot of critical opinion of pop music in a given year, no matter who's at the helm.

it seems to me the ilm poll has suprassed p&j as the best snapshot of critical opinion of pop music in a given year

I'm going to try Kacey Musgraves now.

alright, fair enuff re: why some of youse still being interested…but if I were in the shoes of MJ, Xgau and Xhuxx (can't remember the ILM spelling convention), I damn sure wouldn't continue to participate in any exercise initiated by an employer that treated me the way New Times treated them.

Perhaps it speaks well of them that they care about what P&J used to mean or, in a very remote, vague possibility, still could…Xhuxx certainly does, to the extent of not only discussing the results of this poll on FB, but posting ballots from 10-20-30 years ago throughout the year… it does seem to me that list-making seems to be more important for music writers than perhaps it should be: I could never understand prioritizing how much I liked one record over nine others.

but my, that is an unimpressive series of essays. and are those the only comments they got?

It seems like there are fewer and fewer comments every year. Maybe it's just me?

First year I didn't submit any, in part because fuck the VV.

It used to be a way to get easy money taking an afternoon to cut and paste shit from my blog or improvising on spec but VV wasn't even paying for'em last year.

but if I were in the shoes of MJ, Xgau and Xhuxx

I think it may be a sort of professionalism on their part, and passion for music and music criticism. I can't comment on the others, but xhuxk, who I got to know in person (to a limited degree) at one time, doesn't seem like someone who holds grudges. Conflict averse? Definitely not, but the sort of person to get angry and get it over with. Personally, ff I were in a situation like that, I'd probably want revenge.

(Why do I have so much time to post these comments at work? Unprofessionalism?)

Na, not the only ones. I'll be among those blogging my comments---out of habit, yeah, but also out of interest in the music; not one over nine others---I always grade albums ten points each, would do the same with singles if grades applied (why don't they? Supposedly more and more people are more and more into singles than albums. Too much work?) P&J still tests the old reflexes, prompting me to get my thots a bit more together than they might otherwise be; ditto the Nashville Scene Country Music Critics survey, with results to be published the week of 1/23, I think (and definition of "country" up to each voter). Also, I'm with Glenn re ballots leading me to check out music I hadn't heard of (how'd I miss Matana Roberts).

i mean even for people who LIKE listmaking this is wildly embarrassing shit when someone does it

― lisa 龜 (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, January 15, 2014 4:31 PM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

what why ?

there are always 3 or 4 songs i hear where i think 'i'm not going to like ten songs more than this"

am i supposed to have like a points system

the "breadth" thing is interesting -- i always tried to keep my ballots varied and not vote for the same artists over and over unless i really loved the individual records, but i'm still surprised to be ranked #14 out of everyone for breadth!

i wonder what the ties are like—i'm 30 slots behind you but still with a breadth of .938. i would guess that the average is pretty high.

i haven't especially made a point of not re-voting for artists, just tended to like different records more from year to year, but i do tend to duplicate some artists from albums ballots when i vote for singles.

i wonder what a good way to relate the breadth to centricity would be. the voter with the highest average centricity (so, on average, has picked the most 'winning' records) couldn't have too high a breadth, given how much repetition there has been in the results of big-name artists.

I know it's hard to define a "single" anymore but I am curious about these electro-pop and alt-rock tracks on Maura's ballot, that got as little support as my fave African & Jamaican danceclub tracks. I wonder if these tracks featured videos or anything and were they receiving acclaim from like Singles Jukebox or something? I'm gonna listen to 'em anyway, but was just wondering what folks who keep up with these kind of sounds more than I do think. Are there a bunch of critics out there with similar taste to Maura who just didn't contribute to the poll this year?

Lone · "Airglow Fires" 2
Kate Boy · "Northern Lights" 1
Andy Bull · "Baby I Am Nobody Now" 0
Fall Out Boy · "Alone Together" 0
Laura Stevenson · "Eleonora" 0
My Chemical Romance · "Make Room!!!!" 0
Polly Scattergood · "Wanderlust" 0
Studio Killers · "All Men Are Pigs" 0
Thea & the Wild · "Hots for You" 0

Lone unless that's a different Lone is neither electro-pop nor alt-rock

Let's relive the nightmare again of Frank Ocean winning the poll.

― Bryan Fairy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, January 14, 2014 6:59 PM (2 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

wtf?!

Way behind the thread, but for the record:

gotta be by far the best a free mixtape never issued as an official retail release has ever done on P&J.

― some dude, Wednesday, January 15, 2014 3:18 AM

I went and looked and 'Nostalgia, Ultra' placed at #16. Can't think of others that would be factors.

Also, glenn and jaymc otm re: why care about this, even in its weakened state and even if the VV sucks.

it does seem to me that list-making seems to be more important for music writers than perhaps it should be: I could never understand prioritizing how much I liked one record over nine others.

Given how nearly all publications have lists now, it seems to be part of most critics' jobs. Anyone who says they can't prioritize is full of shit. An easy exercise - you will never ever get to hear any album from 2013 for the rest of your life except one. Pick it. You're welcome.

I've mentioned before, I would love for there to be an entry in Pazz & Jop for how many albums you actually heard from that year, so Glenn could include that in his statistics and give the option to produce alternative rankings according to that factor. I'd be more interested in ballots from ones who listened to at least a couple hundred over those who only heard 20.

lol posts very much in character

xpost The breadth stats offer some insight for that, i.e. a voter who hears only 20 albums in a given year is more likely to vote for the same artists year after year.

Curmudgeon, I haven't heard ANY of those songs.

Studio Killers got quite a bit of attention from pop-focused bloggers and made it into the lower reaches of some critical album lists, i think (maybe Popmatters?).

Yep! What's ironic is that people often paint listmakers as somehow disconnected from the music while I see many anti-listmakers as either lacking the passion to say they love certain albums above all others, or lacking the courage to commit to any such statement for fear they will change their minds and be embarrassed about it later.

x-post to Raymond--

Maybe Brad Nelson knows those Maura tracks...

Lone · "Airglow Fires" 2

This is 90s-style dance music in the vein of 808 State.

Kate Boy · "Northern Lights" 1

This is a fantastic electro-pop song, everyone should listen to it.

yeah that lone was a pretty big hit of sorts, i think it may have made my ilx ballot

Fall Out Boy · "Alone Together" 0

This has gotten a fair amount of play on Top 40 radio in Atlanta, but it is far from the best song on the album.

curmudgeon's post is pretty much why i continue to vote. boosting artists who made music i love, and figuring out what other critics like them and what they enjoy that i might have missed, is more important than anything.

i heard a lot of my favorite tracks through spotify new releases playlists. brad sent me 'hots for you,' which is scandinavian pop dressed up in garage-punk drag; 'wanderlust' landed in my inbox at a moment when i had time to hear it, and its vague melodic resemblance to madonna's 'cherish' whipped up into kate bush airiness hooked me instantly; the mcr is from their set of EPs that burned off music from the 'danger days' sessions and contains a bit of 'na na na' dna; andy bull is gorgeous mournful electropop from australia; 'eleonora' has the best guitar riff of 2013 (it's from an album by an ex-member of bomb the music industry!; came out on don giovanni); studio killers is glorious disco with copious references to simone de beauvoir.

i also have a policy of not voting for tracks if i've voted for the albums from which they sprung, which means that 'still into you,' 'ain't it fun,' and 'secret surprise' were struck from contention.

and i like alone together, so there.

also if you listened to my radio show on wzbc you'd have heard at least one of those songs. or just check out the playlist that i start making every january:
http://open.spotify.com/user/maurajohnston/playlist/4knMbfjIxRwZP4cFiBNOgH

I went and looked and 'Nostalgia, Ultra' placed at #16. Can't think of others that would be factors.

"Piracy Funds Terrorism" placed at #23.

I knew about most of Maura's songs through other channels than just Maura, if that's the question.

I (usually) use that same rule against voting for songs that are on the albums I voted for, in the interest of giving what little shred of exposure I can to more artists.

I think it would be interesting to have, in addition to the current song poll, all the voters also pick 10 songs from the year-end Billboard Hot 100, or some other list of songs considered to be in our common cultural experience...

low votes for "differentology" only reflect badly on p&j, because that song was such a real-world anthem.

― lex pretend, Wednesday, January 15, 2014 1:37 PM

This Bunji Garlin # got 3 votes. There are so many different "real-worlds" out there of varying sizes, and this significant one has never been very represented in the poll

went back and looked, the only things on my ballot with 0-1 other votes were either album tracks (that should have been singles) or artists that should be everywhere but aren't

(and jessie ware)

Wasn't the Kate Boy song from 2012?

Do you not know about the 'year of impact' rule?

Dost thou not know

brad sent me 'hots for you,'

which i learned about from the ilx summer jams thread!

so what year is going to be Kate Boy's year of impact?

I suppose that was a silly question to ask given that "I Love It" placed at #8

it really feels like "i love it" has been placing in EOY lists for about five years now and oh god i hate that song so much but it keeps growing

im pretty sure i've heard it in different tv adverts over the year a lot. did it get to #1 her? Its by far the song ive heard most this year

I discovered that Kate Boy song via Singles Jukebox. It's great.

yeah it's a badass song

which i learned about from the ilx summer jams thread!

Still making a mark on Pazz & Jop even if I haven't voted in YEARS! woo.

I went and looked and 'Nostalgia, Ultra' placed at #16. Can't think of others that would be factors.

"Piracy Funds Terrorism" placed at #23.

― o. nate, Thursday, January 16, 2014 12:00 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Lil Wayne's Da Drought 3 at #35 in 2007 too.

I'm just now listening to "Differentology," and I'm hearing Chris Isaak sing "Wicked Game" over top of it.

we got it 4 cheap vol 2 didn't finish in the top 50 of 2005 but it was a big reason why hell hath no fury went top 10 in 2006

oh i forgot about the biggest non-retail mixtape on P&J before Chance: Danger Mouse's The Grey Album, #10 in 2004 lol

it's funny that timberlake's reputation grew to the point that people were salivating for a new album by the time 20/20 dropped

futuresex was only #28 in 2005... behind hot chip, the decemberists, band of horses, yo la tengo and the dixie chicks

in 2006*

Has Danger Mouse only been with us for 10 years now? Because it feels like an eternity.

"my love" lost to "ain't no other man" lolllll

Justin had a lot of singles do well on the P&J singles poll, this year he could've cashed in on the goodwill and made his first big splash on the albums poll like Beyonce if people actually liked his albums.

pretty disgraceful that "Mirrors" was #11 on the singles poll though. xp

beyonce finished in the top 5 this year despite her album coming out days before the deadline, in 2006 didn't even place in the top 50

people were really gassed off xtina in 2006

ugh yeah

i wonder if that's the biggest check DJ Premier ever got, though, good for him

'ain't no other man' > 'my love'

yeah kinda makes it ok xp

i don't even rate "my love" that highly (tho i do really hate "ain't no other man")... i was just making a point about how the perception of timberlake changed

"ain't no other man" is really amazing though

that's what i was just saying on twitter about pop acts needing to pay their dues before moron critics deign to take them seriously - in 2006 xtina had got to that stage (7 years deep, on her third album, made all the credible moves) and i think people assumed she'd be a huge deal

regardless of anyone's personal opinion, there's no way you could poll the 2006 P&J electorate again and they'd still rank "Ain't No Other Man" over "My Love" today

regardless of anyone's personal opinion, there's no way you could poll the 2006 P&J electorate again and they'd still rank "Ain't No Other Man" over "My Love" today

yeah

i find this kinda depressing tbh, like the quality of the actual song is irrelevant to them

is it really that much different though than any point in the past

eh maybe, thought that's probably more a reflection of what happened to xina than what's happened w/ timberlake. 'my love' was second single and maybe had some vote split w/ 'sexyback' (at the time i would've had 'my love' easy best of the three, now easy worst). timberlake was claimed pretty early by the anti-rockists - alex ross had a thing on 'cry me a river' in the nyer, sfj had a thing in slate that got much discussion on ilm about timberlake specifically as popist auteur (though it being in slate could suggest this was still a not conventional notion), this was all before the second album which was more 'ambitious' etc. i mean 'my love' won pfork's single of the year that year.

I heard that xtina song on the radio like a week ago after not hearing it for years and it was a nice surprise.

i actually feel bad for xina, she was smart enough to actually anticipate edm and try to be ahead of the curver there, her execution was just very poor. had the pipes to be a real house belter, wish she had just gone and had fun w/ it instead of trying to make it her art move.

yeah setting aside their career trajectories, the main differences is you can actually still encounter "My Love" in the wild xp

damn didn't even realize she'd released an album since bionic, apparently she put one out in 2012 that flopped also

this song from it is GREAT (totally an antecedent to charli xcx's 'superlove' imo):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeHR0IrTDcI

total summer jam there

man did a ryan tedder 'song' for that last hunger games movie and still couldn't get arrested

My innocuous comment on Facebook apparently raised xhuxk's Metalism score.
Even without voting anymore, I am making an impact... :)

beyonce finished in the top 5 this year despite her album coming out days before the deadline

Does anyone else wonder if the album would have placed lower had it come out back in, say, July? Whether critics were so little-kids-on-Christmas-morning about the whole thing that they placed it on the top of their lists pretty much blind?

I don't recall ever listening to Lotus, but the "Red Hot Kinda Love" song is niiiice.

i assume that is right, 誤訳侮辱. but it's ok. this ain't science.

horse otm possibly - i could imagine that whatever votes it lost due to deadline it made up for w/ enthusiasm. can also imagine if it had come out much earlier and there had been singles campaigns etc some album voters might've thrown that vote to a single instead.

i think the newnewss helped but "blind" implies people weren't even listening to it -- i tend to kind of know within my first 2 weeks of having an album whether i'm gonna like it or not a year later anyway. not the first time i've put a December album on my P&J ballot and i've yet to regret doing that; sometimes you just know.

yeah if anything i underrate december albums (like, looking back at my 2010 ballot where i put LTTP eighth, wtf). i played beyoncé about 5 times the day it came out, knew it was my #1 within a couple of days, and the month since i sent my ballot has only confirmed that

I'm exactly the opposite - it's very rare that an album released later than, say, September or October will make my year-end list. It's usually all stuff I've been listening to semi-obsessively since the spring or summer.

i don't usually feel sure about an album being top-ten material until i've listened to it at least a dozen times—and even ones i heard maybe two dozen times, i might have been unsure about compared to the top few that i ended up listening to upwards of 40-60 times during the year.

You guys really take this ranking shit seriously, huh? My favorite of any year is always a gut decision. Sometimes the album retains some kind of legacy in my life over time, and sometimes it doesn't. For 2013, no album really hit me that way until Beyonce's was released. Haim and Tegan & Sara were close, but I still wasn't knocked flat by either of them. Beyonce IMMEDIATELY clicked as my aoty.

i don't, it's just how i work—if i don't let things settle that much then i have almost no idea how to rank shit at all. and it's a rare year that one album strikes me out of the blue from listen #1 as thee greatest thing evar in my life

oh it's totally a gut feeling. any album that compels me to listen over and over again like bey's did = AOTY contender

and most of my AOTYs over the years haven't been ones that slowly creep up - most have stopped me in my tracks on first or second listen

maybe the difference is i don't listen very obsessively/repetitively? i try to savor each listen, i spun my #1 album of the year maybe 40 times but i can't imagine doing that with ten different albums and not getting sick of them all pretty quickly.

i think of listening to the same album over and over as something i did as a teenager, not because it's a 'teenager' activity but because i only had so many CDs and getting new ones cost money. i have no desire to binge listen to anything now that i don't have to.

Case by case basis for me. In the last month, I've probably listened to Bey's album 20-25 times in full, and individual tracks a lot more often. But some albums I really do love I don't feel the impulse to listen to very often. And some of them are residually beloved, as in I listened to it a whole lot earlier in the year but haven't done so in months.

i weigh my album of the year 50% by quantity of listens + 50% by ideological value

It varies for me. Some top ten albums get 20 plays, some get 50.

I'm much better about letting December singles instead of albums crash my year end list

for 2010 I had LTTP and Love Letter get into my 2011 ballot.

i just like to let things work their way in. sometimes it means i end up really liking things that didn't do much for me. i would have been disappointed in the VHÖL album if i hadn't been willing to let it unfold. but it's not usually exactly deliberate. i think there were weeks and weeks where, as soon as i left my office on my way to teach a class, i listened either to carcass or VHÖL. or where i sat down at home in the morning and put on bill orcutt. it just seemed like the thing to do.

Sometimes I know, just RIGHT AWAY. This year, Grouper and TAHNZZ I knew within three spins.

Eric Copeland, it took a while; Death Grips I knew after hearing it in a couple of different settings and situations.

lex, at what point in May did you know Vampire Weekend would be your inescapable #1 album?

Prodigy/Alchemist maybe it took 10 spins, snuck up on me until I was obsessed with it.

Then again some shit is great great great and then I'm sick of it and it doesn't place. This happened with the last Spoon album and Sightings' City of Straw. It's a tricky thing.

Pusha T took a bit.

"Nosestalgia" on my ballot mostly for Kendrick

since i'm not a professional critic, i mostly make my lists for myself, and i think a lot about forging meaningful connections with the records. it bums me out a little to look back at old lists and find that i only still listen to one or two things from them. even though the records from the lists still seem good.

Deafhaven at #19. Is that the highest ever for a metal album (or a "metal" album) in Pazz & Jop history?

Metallica's black album finished at No. 8 in 1991.

http://www.robertchristgau.com/xg/pnj/pjres91.php

Also, lol @ UYI II finishing so far ahead of I. Like, what?

that's not even "metal" ;)

it is the better album imo! and also all the songs that were big by the end of '91 were on II so i feel like it got a jump start (was also the one that debuted at #1 on Billboard). xp

Bah, it counts.

mmm... i would disagree if only for the odds n sods element (and 'civil war' is maybe my least favorite gnr song)

II was better

Did notice that; not that I care, at all, but I do see voters who haven't written about music for years.

― Mark, Wednesday, January 15, 2014 4:02 PM (5 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

My guess is there's no real effort to clean the list. I haven't written about music since 2011, but I still get a ballot every year. I haven't voted since 2010, because that's the last time I felt engaged enough in music and music writing to justify it. But it was tempting to send a vote in anyway just to boost my favorites. I'm sure some people do.

Anybody who feels informed enough to complain about the voters or the voting should probably send in their name to get on the list. The thing could definitely use new and more participants.

I wasn't on the list for years and felt that I would be needy if I asked first, or that I didn't fulfil the criteria in some way, which was dumb of me. Fortunately P&J did add me to the list eventually but I should have approached them much earlier.

Yeah, I wouldn't count on the Voice mounting a big recruiting effort. If you don't vote and should, speak up. And pass it on.

iirc in past years part of the voting process was telling them where you've written in the past year, and there was nothing like that this year?

i voted in this for four years = they are not picky. in fact the first time i ever got paid for any kind of writing was $10 for a p&j comment. (bought wine, rest is hazy.) didn't get a ballot this year (i think) but i'm sure i would have if i'd asked; any top-ten list i would have made tho would have been "here's the best third of everything i heard this year". plus in the end i didn't want to decide if i liked matangi better than paramore.

in past years part of the voting process was telling them where you've written in the past year Not that specifically, but outlets are mentioned kinda oh btw in the current letter re comments etc.:
Even if you decide
not to submit comments, please send a quick email to that address and update
your contact info for our files:

a) Current address
b) Updated e-mail and phone
c) Publications you write for, general workplace changes, whims

next year maybe ILM can buy a ballot, deadspin HOF vote-style

if I just say "I write about music on I Love Music" can I get a P&J ballot?

you should send your writing in the Spandau Ballet thread as a sample.

http://rockcritics.com/2014/01/23/more-pazz-jop/ and Christgau