Taking Sides: Iron Maiden or Judas Priest . . .

Judas Priest never did much for me. There's one album that everyone should agree is great, though: "Painkiller".

i only had 'number of the beast' and 'live after death' though

rob halford = tim brooke taylor.

Judas Priest's "Living After Midnight" and "You Got Another thing Comin'" are good songs, 2 more than I've heard from Iron Maiden.

That said, while Priest had some remarkable singles ("Breakin' the Law," "Livin' After Midnight," "Hot Rockin'," "Headin' out to the Highway," "Hell Bent for Leather", etc. etc. etc.), I'm still going to choose Iron Maiden for their singular mission which they've never deviated from. Priest tried to change with the times on a couple of occaisions (with truly unfortunate sartorial results), but Maiden have remained..well...Maiden from day one. Bless'em!

Because when you play _Stained Class_ backwards — as was proved by Halford in court in the American mid-West — the hidden demonic messages turn out to be "Hey look ma, my chair's broken" and "I asked her for a peppermint".

That said, I gotta take exception to the person upthread who said that Judas Priest lacked a sense of humor. You should really check out their eighties videos, which were some of the _campiest_ things this side of a Judy Garland concert. And now that Halford's out, the lion's share of Priest lyrics as well as his whole hellbent-for- leather schtick emerge as Halford taking the piss big time at the expense of his (probably homophobic) fans. It's amazing how all the Priest fans from high school -- all to a man homophobic -- copped that whole Priest look and image which was based in no small part on Halford's gay leather fetish.

The best way to do this is to break down their contribution to the world of heavy metal. Maiden has very few good albums. Their only good ones are "Number of the Beast," "Powerslave," "No Prayer for the Dying," and "Seventh Son of a Seventh Son." There's 4 good albums right there. Priest's best albums? "British Steel," "Screaming for Vengeance," "Defenders of the Faith," "Painkiller," "Sin After Sin," and "Hell Bent for Leather." Priest has had more successful albums. Each album from Stained Class to the present day has gone either gold or platinum. Maiden had 4 gold albums, and none went platinum. When it comes to albums, Priest wins.

In the scenario of vocals, Halford is by far the better singer. Bruce Dickinson has tried very hard to sound like Halford, trying to hit the high-octave screams that Halford has nailed in songs like "Ram It Down." When it comes to vocals, Priest wins.

Let's move on to guitarists. Priest has Glenn Tipton and K.K. Downing, the quintessential twin-axe attack. Maiden has Janick Gers, Dave Murray, and Adrian Smith. Three guitars may add more depth than two, whereas two guitars are more flowing than three. When it comes to guitarists, Priest wins.

The bassist is perhaps the core of the band, working with the drummer to keep the even beat. Judas Priest has Ian Hill, who can go buck- wild on the bass, as proven in songs like "The Rage." But then again, Iron Maiden has Steve Harris! Harris and Dickinson were the two members of Maiden that EVERYONE knew! Whereas with Priest, it was all Halford! When it comes to bassists, Maiden wins.

Drummers keep the beat of the music and are the sole reason the music is as good as it is. If it weren't for drummers, the guitars and bass would be all over the place. Iron Maiden has been able to stick Nicko McBrain for years. Judas Priest has gone through numerous drummers: John Ellis, John Hinch, Alan Moore, Chris Campbell, Simon Phillips, Les Binks, Dave Holland, and Scott Travis. With each new drummer, Priest has been able to derive a whole new sound from each of them, giving them a bit more variety than ever. When it comes to drummers, Priest wins.

On a side note, to all you idiots who think Priest rocks less since you found out Halford was a homosexual...had you not known that, you would be voting for Priest in this whole ongoing message. Quit being shallow dickheads, because Judas Priest does not rock any less because Halford is a homosexual!

To tally it up on ALL aspects: Judas Priest - 4 Iron Maiden - 1

Judas Priest wins!

Historically speaking, Priest's songs seem to have more variety...but I saw them in concert for free about 10 years ago or so and they were tired. Tipton and Downing stood rooted on either edge of the stage as if they were wearing cement shoes, and Halford kind of stalked up and down slowly between them. He looked as though he felt about 90 years old. Needless to say, they did not rock by any stretch of the imagination.

Although I have never seen Maiden, I shudder to think what their current stage show entails.

They were indeed, or rather a bastard child of hardrock and prog. Which was the best thing about them, because through that route they brought classical melodicism into the genre, whereas Judas Priest et al were still immersed in 70s rock'n roll, streamlined and sped up versions of Deep Purple/Led Zeppelin. In retrospect, Iron Maiden was the first attempt at severing metal from its rock legacy. Through early 80s hardcore, chromaticism was added, and around 1985 the fusion was complete: modern metal, freed of rock 'n roll and ready to spiral out of control into sonic extremes in the ten years that followed.

I listened to Maiden's first album last night and thought it was pretty punk-sounding (except for the solos).

And by this I mean "Blue Oyster Cult/Deep Purplish '70s stoner metal, Glitter/Quatro/Starz-ish glam, and the Dead Boys." Which is interesting, because there's nothing remotely glam about Iron Maiden.

Motorhead, of course, became the band that brought those camps together.

This is not to say, however, that Maiden didn't effect the Punk crowd. Witness this Exploited album cover from `82 and tell me it doesn't have Maiden all over it: http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/cov200/drc600/c617/c6172251xs1.jpg

Which is why I worship the Paul Di'Anno stuff, and can only tolerate Bruce-era Maiden. Although Bruce is a good songwriter, they should've picked a singer that didn't sound like an air raid siren. Well, at least they didn't hire King Diamond...

JP's weaknesses would probably revolve around the variable quality of their lyrics, and the variable merits of the musical directions in which they aim.

(also, I think tons of priest songs, even album tracks are super hooky and catchy - Freewheel Burnin', Eat Me Alive, Metal Gods, Turbo Lover, You Got Another Thing Comin' dozens of others..).

If it's any help, I SORTA like Virgin Steele and Manowar, but not THAT much. They do make me laugh more than Priest or Maiden, though...

Readers of Chuck Eddy metal writing who think they might have theories about WHAT variable Priest and Maiden {and Slayer and ???} are missing are definitely welcome to make their own nominations.

does a certain rhythmic stiffness (for lack of a better term, or I guess lack of "swing") maybe unite these bands in being something that you don't like?

exactly. why are people so obsessed with music being "fun" or life affirming? do people need music to tell them to feel better? I'm actually fascinated more by music that is cold, dark, inhuman and sterile. That's why I like stuff like IDM, David Cronenberg movies or extreme metal, I guess. I like "fun" music just fine as well, don't get me wrong, but "stiffness" or a lack of an element of "fun" or "swing" doesn't bother me at all.

the stiffness is one of the things I like about maiden and priest...i'm a sucker for that "ONE...and-uh, TWO...and-uh" lockstep rhythm...maiden uses it all the time...

(certainly I wouldn't put lyrics as on of Priest's strengths)

Buh? Maiden swings the fuck out of swing, that's why they're one of my favorites. The uptempo stuff especially is far bouncier and less rigid than a lot of their contemporaries, and they use a lot of 12/8.

In fact, the rhythm section is the main reason I like them so much more than Priest, they're like a nimble, carnivorous gazelle compared Priest's (who always did seem big and dumb to me). I can absolutely hear the jazz in Nicko's drumming. Listen to Powerslave!

Also, you're right about Bon Scott's lyrics, he's a great lyricist and JP and Maiden etc are not in his class for simplicity and humour. Lemmy is though.

But Rob Halford - no sense of humour? Naaaah. He's giggling into his sleeve. I listen to Priest and laugh and laugh - you can flip from intense seriousness to an overarching awareness of the ridiculousness of it all with Priest. The way he looks, the way he declaims like a Shakespearian actor - he's aware of the comedy of all this, I read him saying so in an interview recently. Plus - his voice, people! His voice. Or should I say, his voices. No-one can top Halfords amazing voice - not just the octave range, but the styles of singing. It's jaw-dropping, the way he can change the sonic qualities of his voice from album to album, song to song, even verse to chorus. He's a freak.

Chaki's wrath will be boundless.

I dunno if I care about jazzoid drumming (never was much of a fusion fan, beyond early '70s Miles anyway), but I do know that a couple people have compared Iron Maiden songs to disco! An interesting thought, if it's true. I definitely never heard disco there myself, though -- and (as you might've read) I hear disco in LOTS of metal.

Is it that he's an actor or simply a bad one, as you see/hear it?

I'm sure it's a Midelands thing. All that machinery, pverty and desparation. really, it's not just a genre for JP - it's their escape route from boredom and poverty. I'm usre that's why they're so emphatic and strident. They can't afford to fail.

I think the surrealist dimension of JP needs some attention here. It's not just meat and potatoes metal to them. It's a stage, a performance, a battle, and a triumph, in the Greek world of gods and demons. Hence their strange affinity with Queen. They mean it so badly it ascends to supernal dimensions. Is that ludicrous? Yes of course, but so is Greek mythology.

oops, I meant lots of the music I LOVE, not made. But hey, as a screwed-up rebel independent and determined to take it myself, maybe I was right the first time....

I am also baffled by the rythhmn comment.

Never being one to enjoy the centre of stage, but always attracted to those who do, I admire the likes of Rob Halford for going at it full tilt without a moments' hesitation and no apparent embarassment. Does anyone really wear the metal god archetype as intensely and, apparently, sincerely, as he does?

Metal != hippies wearing leather

(I do realise that chuck has a radically different view on what constitutes Metal than I have)

Actually Colin I think you build a great case for the Priest. I downloaded "Rapid Fire" after you mentioned it, as I hadn't listened to it in ages and wanted to hear it. I couldn't remember how it went. Which maybe ties into Chuck's catchiness thing, I dunno, but it sounded great! I love the way they change keys for the middle guitar solo part. I also love that galloping drum pattern (it's like O-XOOX- using stevem-style notation), but I think they got that from Motorhead.

I might just have to pick up British Steel again. The only album I have by either of these bands right now is Sin After Sin (as a kid I had just about all of them).

That's a great couplet. The "forging the furnace for the final grand slam" is quite poetic, actually. Great use of assonance and alliteration.

'Well, isn't coming out as a gay man a good way to problematize the metal warrior image?'

There's a masters thesis for some poor student.

"Hats Off To Halford"

when you think of a metal head tell me what comes to mind well maybe stone washed jeans a mullet a guy who is evolutionary one step behind well when rob halford came out of the closet it may have not been a big thing well today we are one step closer to hearing the metal dudes sing " I want to be I want to be a homosexual" statistics say chances of being gay are what one in ten that means there is a 40 percent chance that one of the guys in pantera likes men hey so I think its safe to say many more other metal guys are homosexual that may frustrate the gay community why would they want the ugly metal heads available see I old you metal dudes are gay too and I happen to see the proof so far that your sexuality determines the way you play guitar ew I'd love for everyone in heavy metal to be homosexual if not only to make the nazi fucking pricks in slayer a little uncomfortable

Well, then you've certainly deprived yourself, latebloomer!

I don't believe for a second that Chuck was the actual author of that (way-incoherent) last remark. (Not a single hyphen, slash, nor uppercase word in sight!)

"(Not just Germans, either - Also Norweigians, Swedes, Frenchies, French Canadians, Hollanders, Czechs, and other random species of funny accents."

Chuck I can't tell if you're being serious or not here.

When I think of Priest, I think of chalky guitar sounds, cheesy lyrics and vocals that have absolutlety no tone, piercing highs and no deph (falsetto sp?). A band trying to hard to be tough yet camp and glammy at the same time.

I'm a baised Iron Maiden fan so my opinion of them I'll keep to myself. :p

There are many other "better" bands that could of been brought to the table against Maiden.

I like the fact that I've heard the same thing said about Maiden, more or less.

Mmm....chalk & cheese!

What exactly does chalk sound like?

You're hard-pressed to find bigger Maiden supporters here on ILM than Ned and I, but you can't say Priest's lyrics could possibly be any cheesier than Maiden's (see "Quest for Fire", "Rhyme of the Ancient Mariner", "The Clansman" etc. etc. etc. ad nauseum for details)

"In the daaaaaayyyyys when dinosaurs walked the eaaarrrrthhh...."

Jel is way more a fan than me, I only have two albums and one's a compilation.

BTW, if you haven't yet tried it, this thread is great to read with either a Maiden or a Priest album playing in the background.

Chuck, then how do you view the non-blues-based strain of metal (the Maiden>Slayer>'modern metal'/'extreme metal' genealogy) - as merely a rogue subset of Metal (aberration?) or as a separate genre altogether? And how does the socio-cultural coherence between these generations (the 'long hair-and-leather continuum') fit in either of these views?

Maiden vs. Priest? It's a King Solomon-esque paradox, but after all these years of listening to both I'm too dense to divine the path of enlightenment. Taking sides is wrong?

I don't understand what this question means at all:

"how does the socio-cultural coherence between these generations (the 'long hair-and-leather continuum') fit in either of these views?"

(I'm not even sure what the two "views" are. Arena rock fans in the '70s often had long hair and leather themsleves, didn't they?)

What's she doing now? She has a degree in pure maths and is a high flying business consultant.

http://www.fivetools.com/pix/europe2003/images/P0008247.jpg

(on the right: my dopey ass; on the left: the air raid siren his bad self)

This is a wonderfully pointless exercise.

::ahem::

UNLEASH!!!

[Maiden] were indeed, or rather a bastard child of hardrock and prog. Which was the best thing about them, because through that route they brought classical melodicism into the genre, whereas Judas Priest et al were still immersed in 70s rock'n roll, streamlined and sped up versions of Deep Purple/Led Zeppelin.

Hence, Priest.

They both coughed up watershed metal albums: '76's Sad Wings Of Destiny and 81's Killers. Those albums get overlooked because of the bands' later pop successes but if you evaluate them within the context of what was going on at the time, they represent big-leaps-forward™.

You can listen to any song on Sad Wings of Destiny and pick out 3-4 moves that would become metal stereotypes. The lithe chugga-chugging, quick lick breaks, prog-epic song structures, tortured-by-demons vocals. Thinking about how what they did differs from what Zep or Sabbath did also puts into perspective how they moved the game forward (or, to be cynical, delimited its boundries). There's a nice earthy texture to their sound too, one that would get progressively slicked down over the years.

Iron Maiden's Killers brought a steely athletic discipline to metal; the playing on it is inhumanly tight + efficient yet still swings like god's own dick (to borrow a phrase). A new gold standard for chops. I rate it better than anything they did after because:

1) The lyrics have an in-the-street/club/alley immediacy to them, as opposed to the at-the-role-playing-game/renaissance-faire slant of their later albums.
2) I prefer Paul Dianno's gruff barking to Bruce Dickinson's screeching.
3) The longest song (besides the obligatory slow ballad) clocks in at 5:01, most songs are ~3 minutes, it moves!
4) Greatest cover for a metal album, ever.
5) Has that fat 70s drum sound and they still have a little bar-band boogie left in 'em.

Geir it is rather shocking that you'd prefer the rote melodies of Priest to the classical melodic stylings of Iron Maiden: "Flight of Icarus," especially, is leagues beyond Preist's kenning

M@tt wins internet today.

Kind of disappointed that Chuck hasn't reappeared yet to tell me "Number of the Beast" sounds like "Ring My Bell"....

:(

Early Priest is less overtly mythic and archetypal.
-- moley (moley)

In retrospect, I'm rather surprised I said that. Their early albums are teeming with demigods, mostly of their own creation. Sometimes they themselves become the demigods, dispensing metal to ya from on high!

Rocka Rolla is my current fave

That one gets a lot of love on ILM.

Killers may be the best record by either, but Priest has more good albums to their name.

Both are just fantastic bands. Neither should have ever changed singers.

Judas Priest. Because "United" is a great song, something which Iron Maiden have never released.

You're doing way too many bong hits. "United" is an unrealized advertising jingle.

I love "United" but anyone who says that's the only good song in either band's catalog is just looking for a reaction.

And I totally agree. Why has that not been bought by the airline? That has never made sense to me... do they hate fags or something?

Maiden, pretty clearly. I spent my teenaged years loving on their first five albums. Saw them live touring off Piece of Mind and off Powerslave, collected their non LP B-sides, the whole thing.

But at some point they had lamed out, and I hadn't even noticed until I heard Masters of Puppets.

I'll agree with the guy up top who said Dianno was the way to go, coz he is. Although my teenaged self didn't appreciate it, there's a punk intensity to the debut and to Killers that was lost when Dickinson became their singer.

Like, check this out, Eddie's just killed the PM, if it's political it must be punk, right? http://991.com/NewGallery/Iron-Maiden-The-First-Ten-Yea-358688.jpg

Although if I were cornered in a dark alley, I'd probably admit that Number of the Beast is still a good record, I haven't listened to anything other than the first two from Maiden in over fifteen years, while "Prowler" and "Drifter" and "Remember Tomorrow" remain in heavy rotation.

Bumped for aero - which-parent-do-you-forsake?

My pick: Priest by a country mile. Has meant the world to me since I bought Hero, Hero because of the cover back in 81 or so.

smithy prefers polls

Which parent does Smithy forsake - Iron Maiden Vs Judas Priest

Well this is just a feast of a thread... Having recently discovered Maiden, they still have the glow of a new love for me, but both bands are insanely classic. The single-mindedness of Maiden's sound, however, is astonishing. They've not only purged things like blues (the solos still have blues-tinged elements but are themselves not bluesy in the slightest), major keys, lyrical references to sex/desire--all of which are still very much present in Priest--they sound as if those things never even existed. It's not as if their sound has a restraint or an austerity that you perceive as a lack, though; it's only when you try and figure out what constitutes their uniqueness that you notice the things that are "missing" from their presentation. As far as the discussion way upthread of Maiden's perceived "stiffness"--I don't see it AT ALL, unless their tightness and non-sexual presentation somehow code as stiff for you. When they're locked in and firing--listen to something like "Aces High"--it's incredibly nimble, balletic, weightless, a pure rush of interlocking parts. In the awesome Steely Dan mini-documentary "The Making of Aja", Larry Carlton talks about how Becker/Fagen would make them practice and practice and practice until it sounded perfect, but then to practice more beyond that until it sounded natural. When Maiden is on, it reminds me of that state of playing--a beyond-"perfection" transcendent playing that breathes and moves in its own space. Few bands achieve that.

Rob Halford's calloused testicles battered the backside of rock and roll like a pair of sheathed wrecking balls.

That should be the new board description.

Enjoyed reading through this. I may have had a nightmare about Halford's testicles last night. For me it's Maiden all the way. I listened to NOTB-POM-Powerslave thousands of times as a young teen, and British Steel-SFV-DOTF only dozens. The OP didn't seem to include 70s Priest, which I didn't dig into 'til later in life anyway. Those albums would tip the scales in JP's favor, but I enjoy parts of Maiden's albums since 2000, and not so much Priest's.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vK8TgL-XJP8

I woke up with this song stuck in my head. It rules.

TRIPLETS

THE LAW OF THE LAND SHALL BE TRIPLETS

TRIPLETS MANDATED FOR ALL MUSICIANS