Touring help

Wow Steve, that's a lot of dates - to be honest I think you'll be lucky to book half of those on this kind of notice. And I mean lucky.

Why so many VA dates, if you don't mind me asking?

I guess I can name venues in a few towns if you don't mind me asking.

Galaxy Hut in Arlington, VA (right by DC) is a nice little place and they're not hard to deal with about booking.

I think there's a coffee place that has a good rep. for music in Vienna, VA called Jammin' Java?

In North Jersey you might try The Goldhawk in Hoboken - easier to book than Maxwell's and still pretty nice from what I've heard, although I've never played there. There's also The Iron Monkey in Jersey City. There are probably a few venues in Montclair - maybe do some Googling.

In Raleigh, NC you might have a shot at booking Sadlacks - a funny little dive bar with a mix of locals and college hipsters that has semi-outdoor shows.

In any case, the best thing to do is just e-mail as many venues as possible and beg to be squeezed onto a bill, since most of those dates are likely to already be booked at this point.

I could name tons of places in Philly or NYC if you want.

(the second "if you don't mind me asking" was not supposed to be there)

Oh yeah, another thing - your best bet is to be flexible with dates - give each venue at least three options and then be prepared to be flexible with your schedule and probably have days without shows.

Thanks for the help. Yeah, I know it's a really crappy situation. We're touring with another band, and they're from VA and have lots of connections there, hence all of those dates. The guy from the other band was supposed to do the bulk of the booking, and basically had me thinking that he had shit taken care of and I just found out today that he didn't.

I've already contacted the Galaxy Hut and Jammin Java. I'll try Goldhawk and Sadlack's, thanks. I've contacted a bunch in Philly and NYC, but if you know any that might be likely and I might not know about, I'd appreciate it.

Here's a revised schedule that's a little less goofy:

6/16 - Virginia
6/17 - Virginia
6/18 - Virginia/North Carolina
6/19 - Virginia/North Carolina
6/20 - Virginia/North Carolina
6/21 - Virginia/North Carolina
6/22 - Virginia/West Virginia
6/23 - Washington DC
6/24 - Maryland
6/25 - West Virginia
6/26 - Pittsburgh - Kiva Han
6/27 - Central PA
6/28 - Eastern PA/Philly
6/29 - North Jersey
6/30 - Connecticut
7/1 - Connecticut
7/2 - NYC area
7/3 - NYC area
7/4 - Massachusetts
7/5 - Massachusetts
7/6 - Albany, NY
7/7 - Vermont/New Hampshire
7/8 - Vermont/New Hampshire

Philly - maybe Mill Creek Tavern? Tin Angel? Doc Watson's (nothing to do with the flatpicker of the same name)? The Khyber is sort of an obvious one, but they might be a little tougher.

NYC - hmm, I'm blanking out on some of the smaller venues in Manhattan because I haven't done a show there in so long. Maybe Ace of Clubs?
I think I remember hearing that Luna Lounge is doing shows again. There's some fucking number bar - Bar 153 or Bar 157 or something.

Outside Philly is New Hope - John 'n' Peter's is the only music venue I know off hand but there must be others.

You might also try Red Bank, NJ - I'm pretty sure it has a few little places that do decent live music.

Again, I urge you to be flexible with the dates, be prepared for a little zigzagging, some days off. Maybe try to fill some of the gaps with house shows if you know anyone.

Thanks again. Heyday booking does Khyber and North Star, but that's definitely not happening at this point. I contacted somebody in Red Bank earlier today, and I'm trying all those other places now.

We're definitely ready to be flexible. We have places to stay lined up in/near most of these cities, so if we end up with 15 shows instead of 23 or whatever I won't be too bummed.

I haven't lived in Virginia in a few years, but back in the day the places to play were Tokyo Rose in Charlottesville (which I think might be closed now) and Nanci Raygun in Richmond. The Meridien Coffeehouse was the place to go in Williamsburg, it is tiny tiny tiny but fun, however there won't really be anyone in Williamsburg during the summer and I doubt the Meridien is even open.

There's another place in Charlottesville I played - totally blanking out on the name. It's kind of a *premier venue* type of place actually but they had us do a show in the bar area downstairs.

I've been surprisingly lucky so far - I've confirmed 6/22 at Sadlack's in Raleigh, NC, 6/24 at Marley's Dog House in Huntington, WV, I already had 6/26 in Pittsburgh, and I got 6/29 at the Mill Hill Saloon in Trenton and 6/30 at the Grady Tavern in Manchester, CT. Still working on the rest, though.

Er, actually that's 6/22 in Huntington, WV, and 6/24 at Room with a Brew in Leonardtown, MD.

I knew Sadlacks would come through. (Make sure to order a sub while you're there).

Will do! Cheers again for the info.

We got Starr Hill in Charlottesville, VA on 6/20 and Test Pattern in Scranton, PA on 6/27. We apparently have a show in NYC on 7/3, but I'm waiting for the promoter to get back to me with details. DC is looking unlikely at this point, but I'm still holding out for Philly and Boston.

Any more Philly recommendations would be appreciated.

We're playing upstairs at the Pussycat Lounge in NYC. Anybody know anything about that place?

There's another place in Charlottesville I played - totally blanking out on the name. It's kind of a *premier venue* type of place actually but they had us do a show in the bar area downstairs.

Was it Starr Hill? Because that's what we're doing. Seems like a pretty sweet deal. They give us a $100 guarantee plus a percentage of alcohol sales over a certain amount.

We're playing upstairs at the Pussycat Lounge in NYC. Anybody know anything about that place?

Ha: it's a strip bar near Ground Zero, but the upstairs is a proper venue, requires no interaction with the strip-bar part, and has been doing shows fairly regularly. It's a bit of a small/strange room -- I think I was last there to see noise acts during CMJ, and it still had a "runway" configuration, rather than a stage -- but I think it might actually work really nicely for you, because it feels far more like a room than a big open venue. The big room in the basement with the gross couch in it, but a room nonetheless.

Thanks, that sounds pretty decent. I wasn't sure about the strip club thing, but a gig's a gig I guess. Maybe we'll add a striptease number to the set.

xp Yeah it was Starr Hill and they were really nice to us. They fed us too - pretty good food.

If you get to play in the main space it's pretty nice - I think it was temporarily closed for shows when we were there but the extremely coked-up owner took us up there and bragged about how good the sound system was for a while and went on and on about Toad the Wet Sprocket and some Aussie Jack Johnson-ish guy whose name I heard again later but have forgotten. Some dude with a "trio".

Anyway, if you wind up playing the bar, that's nice too. Some local cowboys were hassling us about playing "some Hank," but it was good otherwise.

We've got 13 shows right now, which I feel pretty good about. But we're really stuck for Boston and Philly. Still no luck with Albany, either. Last call for ideas...

You tried Doctor Watson's and Mill Creek Tavern for Philly?

I've tried Mill Creek a bunch and have yet to get a response from them. I had looked at Dr. Watson's, but I think I didn't call them because they only do Friday and Saturday shows, but now that you mention it I'll go ahead and do it anyway.

starr hill is nice, and 'premier' for cville. good job.

BTW I have been told there is a new hip place in Richmond called "The Camel"?

Philly:

The Fire - http://iourecords.com/thefire/
Good small venue that might be able to help out last minute. Ask for Derek.

M Room - http://www.themanhattanroom.com/shows.htm
I don't know if they're doing more DJ nights than shows these days, but worth a shot. I booked shows here for a while and like the space.

Pilam - http://www.yarga.net/
Yeah, it's a fraternity house but the kids are nice and this place is pretty legendary.

Green Line Cafe - http://www.myspace.com/greenlinecafeshows
Coffee shop right around the corner from me that does good shows. Not huge, but may be able to swing something last minute.

40th Street Underground - http://www.myspace.com/undergroundinphilly
Another coffeeshop type place. Mostly crap but may be able to accomodate last minute.

The Marvelous - http://www.themarvelous.com/
Record & comic book shop that puts on shows frequently.

Milkboy Coffee - http://www.milkboycoffee.com/
Just right outside the city in the suburbs, really nice space.

Clap It Off House - http://www.myspace.com/clapitoff
Yeah, a house, but cool folks.

Danger! Danger! House - http://www.myspace.com/dangerdangerhouse
The house is closing down but the folks are opening up some new space. Drop them a line.

Avant Gentlemen's Lodge - http://www.myspace.com/avantgentlemenslodge
Rad DIY space in West Philly. Not sure how often they put on stuff, but I like it there a lot.

General Promoters:

Sara - http://www.herjazz.org/sara/
My better half in Plain Parade is still booking stuff @ Tritone.

Sherman Arts - http://www.myspace.com/shermanarts
Lots of West Philly stuff, but Rich is a good dude.

John / Badmaster Records - http://www.myspace.com/badmasterrecords
More punk/noise stuff, but John is a good guy and can probably give you other ideas.

Alexis / Flying V - http://www.myspace.com/flyingvpresents
Does a lot of stuff at Johnny Brenda's.

Hope this helps!

That's really great, thanks a lot.

So we ended up doing pretty well. We still haven't gotten a Philly show, which is a pain. Hopefully some of the TBAs will be filled in with Philly and something in MA.

6/19 - Fredericksburg, VA - Fife Restaurant
6/20 - Charlottesville, VA - Downstairs at Starr Hill
6/21 - Raleigh, NC - Sadlack's
6/22 - Huntington, WV - Marley's Dog House
6/23 - Fredericksburg, VA - KC's Music Alley
6/24 - Leonardtown, Maryland - Room with a Brew
6/25 - Charleston, WV - The Empty Glass
6/26 - Pittsburgh, PA - Kiva Han
6/27 - Scranton, PA - Test Pattern
6/28 - Williamsport, PA - Kimball's
6/29 - Trenton, NJ - Mill Hill Saloon
6/30 - Manchester, CT - Grady's Tavern
7/1 - TBA
7/2 - TBA
7/3 - NYC - Upstairs at the Pussycat Lounge
7/4 - TBA
7/5 - Albany, NY - Federation of Ideas
7/6 - TBA
7/7 - Brattleboro, VT - The Common Ground

I'm impressed - good hustle. Obviously you should be the one in charge of tour-booking in the future and not this other dude.

Steve-- email me sean period adams period 86 at gmail... i may be able to work on something in NH/VT for that 7/6 date

Thanks for trying Sean, but we confirmed 7/6 at Mill Street Brews in Southbridge, MA.

Well, tonight's the last show of the tour in Brattleboro, VT. We ended up with 19 shows. Thanks a million to everyone who offered advice. Here's the insider post-tour venue review for you folks:

<b>Starr Hill in Charlottesville, VA</b> - Nice folks who took good care of us and gave us food. Small room with no stage and minimal sound/PA. It seemed like they worked pretty hard on promotion, but they didn't get a local band and nobody showed up. It was a Wednesday, though. I'd consider going back there.

<b>Sadlack's Heroes in Raleigh, NC</b> - One of the smallest rooms I've ever played. They said they usually have bands outside on the patio area, but lost their outdoor music permit, although they'd be getting it back soon. But they took very good care of us and the locals were really friendly. I'd recommend it.

<b>Marley's Dog House in Huntington, WV</b> - Decent sized room with really nice sound and accoutrements. The sound guy can make bubbles come out over the stage! It's right near Marshall Unversity, and we're told that it's really busy during the semester, but don't even think about going there when school's not in session.

<b>KC's Music Alley in Fredericksburg, VA</b> - Don't bother.

<b>The Empty Glass in Charleston, WV</b> - Charleston is really depressing. It was a pretty neat little bar though, and the locals were friendly. The sound guy was really great. It could've been worse.

<b>Kiva Han in Pittsburgh, PA</b> - A great place to play a tiny show due to its location and walk-in crowd. Contact Manny Theiner of Garfield Artworks. The owner told us they're looking to do more shows there, and CMU kids who can't be bothered to go to Garfield will show up.

<b>Test Pattern in Scranton, PA</b> - Your basic art gallery basement. The dudes in charge got a local band on the bill, but the local band brought absolutely no one to the show, and so they didn't even bother playing. We played for my four friends who showed up. Nobody seemed very friendly. Maybe it's better when school's in session and there isn't a rainstorm, but I can't recommend it.

<b>Kimball's Subs in Williamsport, PA</b> - Surprisingly awesome. Probably the most fun show of the tour. Really friendly staff who gave us food and lots of drinks. A good-sized and extremely enthusiastic crowd even on a Thursday when school wasn't in session. A good tour stop in central PA.

<b>Mill Hill Saloon in Trenton, NJ</b> - The guy who booked it seemed nice, but the show was miserable. He told us he was getting a local band and that there'd be a crowd (this was a Friday). The local band was painful, the room is really tiny, and there was hardly anybody there. We were left to fend entirely for ourselves with sound, the monitors didn't work at all, and there was constant feedback. We got some beers, but I wouldn't recommend it.

<b>Grady Tavern in Manchester, CT</b> - The folks at Rock Yer Socks booking do shows here. They are totally awesome. They set up a good bill, they promoted the show really hard, and they were really friendly and hung out with us. It's a really tiny bar with no stage and minimal PA, but the owners were nice and the crowd was cool. I'd recommend it.

<b>Pussycat Lounge in NYC</b> - A nice room with a good sound system. But the show almost fell through weeks after it was confirmed because the two girls who book the room apparently don't communicate with each other. There are no beers on tap, we didn't get any food or drinks, and worst of all 15 or so people paid $5 to get in and we saw zero money from the door. I should've argued about it but I didn't. I wouldn't go back.

<b>POINT 5 in Albany, NY</b> - Put on by Federation of Ideas. They seem like a really cool group of people, but the promotion seemed haphazard. The crowd was pretty hipsterish and enthusiastic, but the room was not very good. Extremely tiny and extremely fucking hot with no fans or ventilation, no stage, no PA.

<b>Mill Street Brews in Southbridge, MA</b> - A nice room, and it seemed like it would've been a cool show if anybody had turned up. A nice stage and PA, but the sound guy was new and had lots of problems.

Dammit, sorry for all the fucked up formatting. Anyway, now that that's out of the way, it's time for me to ask for help again! That's right, it's time to start booking the west coast tour.

I'm trying to correct all the mistakes of the last one, so I'm thinking we'll hit the road in late September or early October. The tentative plan is to begin in Las Vegas, head to the CA coast, go north up to Seattle, then do something in eastern WA and work our way back down through northern CA, NV, possibly hit AZ, and then end up back in Vegas.

We'd like to avoid really tiny places, no-name bars, places not known for music, and anywhere we aren't likely to find a receptive audience and make money - but we'd also like to keep travel distances in the 300 miles or less range.

Of specific interest - places between LA and San Francisco? Places in northern CA? Places in eastern OR and WA? Anywhere in NV besides Las Vegas? Lay it on me!

Also, what do you think about touring without a bass amp and just going DI everywhere? Am I overlooking some reason why this is a bad idea?

That diary looked pretty grim. As for just going DI being a bad idea, as you described of one of the "venues," "no PA."

Arcata, CA, is apparently a nice college town to play in. I haven't played there, but it's a typical northern Cali stop.

Astoria, OR, is pretty much the only town on the OR coast that has a scene going on. Eugene and Ashland both have colleges, and Eugene's is bigger, but I don't know how organized the scenes are there.

Olympia, of course.

Eastern WA is going to be a bit dire. You might try hitting up Walla Walla/Whitman College if you're really up for it, but I'm not sure Spokane will be all that great. Still, why not?

I played in Reno and they begged for us to come back because nothing ever happens there. But we never made it back. But I like Reno well enough, plus it's near Tahoe, which you should see.

That tour report doesn't sound terribly dire to me.

Your diary reminds me of a few things I've learned about touring

1) Always ask about the pay arrangements via e-mail in advance and have copies in writing

2) The Fugazi model of playing every little fucking town you can works
great for Fugazi. For everyone else, better to stick to markets with a known scene for the kind of music you like and/or a college of the non-evangelical variety

3) At every show you will ever play, the booker will tell you that there's a local band booked that will draw or a headliner that's bound to bring people. It will be true maybe 20% of the time, so until you build up your own draw you just don't expect much.

4) Summer is not the best time to tour college towns.

5) If you find some booker/promoter/indie house show dude that actually does manage to deliver a crowd, stick with that person

ps That sucks that Sadlacks doesn't have outside shows anymore - the inside IS a really small room and I can't imagine how they fit a band in there. Also the Starr Hill has a full music venue upstairs that's pretty nice, but we got stuck playing the bar like you did.

All in all I don't think it was a failure - I certainly learned a whole lot, I now have the tightest, most awesome band I've ever had (and they all want to keep doing this), we played a few really great shows, we drank a lot of free beer, and we ended up with a $250 profit after paying for posters, t-shirts, and gas.

All of the lessons Hurting mentions are 100% true, with number 4 being something of an understatement. I'd add:

6) Don't tour with another band unless you know them well and trust them and like them a lot. If you do tour with another band, make sure you agree on things like who is responsible for what and who is going to play first at the outset.

7) Keep in constant touch with whoever is running the show and get as much information about it as possible. Don't assume that you can trust them if you haven't worked with them before. If the person you've been in correspondence with tells you late in the game that they're going to be out of town and that someone else is going to be running the show, worry.

8) Don't book your shit three weeks in advance, you buffoon.

9) Schedule a day off to go somewhere pretty and eat mushrooms.

As for just going DI being a bad idea, as you described of one of the "venues," "no PA."

Indeed, but part of the goal for this one is to avoid those kinds of situations altogether if at all possible.

That sucks that Sadlacks doesn't have outside shows anymore - the inside IS a really small room and I can't imagine how they fit a band in there.

Yeah, it was super tight, but lots of folks were hanging around outside and listening. They said they'd have a new outdoor music permit soon.

Thanks for the suggestions, Chris. More please!

Oh, another one:

10) Make sure your instruments are in top condition before you leave. Guitar problems are really fucking frustrating.

That tour report doesn't sound terribly dire to me.

Such is the opinion of Professional Hairshirt. As described, one or two like it would be enough to motivate many to start quietly looking for another pasture to play in. Don't take it personally.

Well, if you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen, I guess.

I know why this board exists. It's to show you the grind without a trace of a sense of humor. The top updated threads are about how awful the experience of playing music in a club is. Let's see, what did we get to drink tonight? Two cups of ice water and more riffs off the definition of parsimony.

Not even any good stories about how the opening band had a meth addict for a lead singer who put the communal use mike up his ass so he could fart into it. Death to all funhogs.

Dude, I had a whole lot of fun in the past three weeks. Sorry if you think I didn't.

This board exists to share useful information with like-minded individuals. I've gotten a lot of help around here. Nobody wants to hear me talk about how much we fuckin rocked last night and OMG my bassist hooked up with this hottie lol! If you're not getting anything out of it, there are lots of other forums out there.

This board exists to share useful information with like-minded individuals

You can't put the same shoe on every foot on ILX, you silly.

I don't understand your complaints - are you saying you tour with a band that has better luck or that you wouldn't want to do it?

Wha? I'm saying if you're going to tour with another band you want to be on very good terms with them in terms of trust and communication and agreeing on how everything is going to work. If you'll recall from the beginning of this thread, this whole last minute booking debacle was a result of shitty inter-band communication and misplaced trust.

I'd say the biggest advantage of the two-band thing is sharing equipment. Then there's the ability to split up booking and promotional duties. And if you've got some inter-band playing going on, that's cool, too. And some bookers seem to like it because that's one less band they have to line up.

But most bookers don't seem to like it because that's one less local band they can get and nobody's going to come out for your dumb touring band. And then there are all kinds of possibilities for miscommunication and arguments and annoyances, especially if you aren't already good friends.

Also, anybody know any good venues in Las Vegas? I know about The Beauty Bar. How about San Diego?

That was to Gorge, not you.

Yeah, I don't see the double-band touring thing as all that advantageous. True, you can share equipment, but you're probably going to need two vehicles anyway so it doesn't help that much.

Ah, ok, I was confused. And yeah, but I only had to pay for gas in one vehicle, and none of us in my band have a van or anything, so in that sense it worked well for us. But I'm not going to do it again soon.

So... venues?

Yeah, I don't see the double-band touring thing as all that advantageous

Is there any actual reason people would even know these bands are in town and come to see them?

Speaking of this "tour," did anyone even bother to do publicity? Like send a CD to the local newspaper or arts weeklies in advance of dates and follow-up in hopes of getting a small feature or a blurb in the club listings, one that might bring people out? Are you even in the club listings the day or before you arrive in town?

It's not that hard to succeed at this. I say it with some authority since I actually have done music journalism for a couple decades in which bands send me a CD and say they're coming to town or include an itinerary, even for the worst pits.

I don't understand your complaints - are you saying you tour with a band that has better luck or that you wouldn't want to do it?

It doesn't matter to me. I've already done it, years ago. Never did gigs like this. Was never worth it unless you value morale breakers as builders of character. Sold out Maxwell's twice in the 80's, had a dependable following in our region, could reliably get shows opening for major label acts who drew, worked and got publicity for gigs
that needed it, etc.

Yes to each of your obnoxious questions, you patronizing douchebag.

Maxwell's is tiny dude.

If you read the whole thread, you'd know that this was a last minute, emergency booking situation where someone screwed up. Considering that I think Steve did pretty well.

No one cares about your glory days you washed-up fucking has-been troll.

I think you all need to chill out and stop taking things so personally.

Well, it'd be nice if this thread could continue to be informative and useful as it has been and not get ruined by some dude's dripping condescension and half-assed boasting. I'd think you could appreciate that, JJ old chap.

Next time you want to call someone out for condescension, try not to end your sentence with "old chap".

Righto, my apologies mate!

You're lucky I've decided that irritating me isn't a bannable offense.

The point I'm trying to make is that I feel bad for anyone in the industry that has thin enough skin to be personally offended by Gorge's comments.

I mean, unless we're going to rename the board "I Love Cuddles", you'd think that the people here would be better equipped to deal with criticism than on the rest of ILX, being musicians and all.

You're irritated by my tongue-in-cheek usage of quaint Britishisms, but I have thin skin for being annoyed by Gorge's deliberate thread-shitting? If you want to put on your moderator's hat, why don't you delete the last ten comments rather than taking this even further off-topic? He can start his own thread for dripping condescension and sad curmudgeonliness if he wants to. Old bean.

Fuck off, Steve. 3 day ban.

Well there goes 75 percent of the posts on IMM.

ha!

Quality, not quantity, is the name of the game here, people.

P.S. St3v3, quit sending personal emails to me about this or I'll ban you permanently. It's a three day ban. Chill the fuck out.

OK, according to Keith, the temp bans last 4 days (just for clarification and to avoid confusion.)

I could still use more ideas for Las Vegas, Tucson, San Diego, and northern CA in general.

Well, you'll have to wait 4 more days, and stop registering new usernames then. 4 day ban for this one too. You want to play this game until you run out of googleproofing options?

lolz

"Oh yeah, now you're grounded for TWO weeks!"

No. He's banned for the same amount of time as before. I'm just not handing out free passes.

note: the only other person I've banned is PEW, so it's not like I'm operating like an iron-fisted despot here.

But you do have a personal issue with Steve which seems to colour things slightly...

In fairness I think Gorge should have gotten a 4-day ban, too.

Still, lolz.

But you do have a personal issue with Steve which seems to colour things slightly...

-- kv_nol, Tuesday, 10 July 2007 08:37 (6 hours ago)

I see how it could look this way, but the only issues I have w/St3v3 are all related to this same sort of behavior on this board. I just remembered that I banned Gzeus one time also, and I know him in real life, and he's a customer at my store. If Gorge (who's posting style I recognize is a bit abrasive) or Hurting (who is a noise bro) had come back to the thread and kept pushing the issue after I made an attempt to encourage people to be civil, I would have banned them too. If I still had the ability to yellowcard, I would have tried that first, but nu-ilx is pretty limited in mod abilities.

I'm not locking the thread, and people are more than welcome to list booking options for St3v3, but I just think that a cooling off period is a good thing, because otherwise he and I would still be bickering like old ladies and using up ILX's shiny new bandwidth.

hey steve goldberg i know you're not punk and i'm telling everyone but have you tried this sort of thing dude it's a punk DIY tour guide, or myabe googling around in the areas you want to play? google is this awesome website dude seriously. like dude, if you want to play tucson, maybe you should check out the online website of the tucson free weekly? it probably lists venues, you know what i'm saying?

Ha, that's the first time anyone has referred to me as a "noise bro"

look into The Art Bar in Vegas. lame-o name, but not a bad place to play at all.

http://search.cityguide.aol.com/lasvegas/bars/art-bar/v-288362

redding and chico (about 60 miles from each other in california) have pretty good all-ages scenes and both places we played were pretty good about hooking us up w/ locals. i think that the venue in redding has closed, but i heard that the owners opened up another venue close to it

http://www.chicolist.com/ --- this website was helpful to us for both shows, for booking and for promotions

I know him in real life, and he's a customer at my store.

Oh wow. No way! Is he as batshit irl?

I'm not a fan of Steve's style (sorry man) but I do feel that maybe he gets a harsher deal than most. That said, he comes back for more so what can you do really?

To answer your first question, OH HELL YES.

John, I'm not trying to light out after you here, but I do want to note that I think your moderation tactics on this board have gotten REALLY heavy-handed. First of all, the argument upthread isn't even in the top 500 of ILX confrontations that require any kind of intervention -- it's not the job of ILX moderators to keep people from arguing, keep threads on topic, or dictate what people should or shouldn't feel insulted by. Second, it's getting awfully transparent that you just jump on Steve whenever he happens to get on your nerves or argue with you personally. You didn't ban him for insulting Gorge; Hurting did that, too, and he's still here. You banned him because he disagreed with you and called you "old bean," which is just ... ridiculous. (Especially since he was just happily talking about how much he enjoyed his tour when an unbanned individual came along and started sneering at him for even bothering.)

So just for the record, I'd certainly like it if you eased up on using moderator powers that way.

Just for the record I've banned a total of 3 people (all temporary except for PEW), deleted only posts by PEW, and locked one thread by a guy spamming for some pay to play music contest. If you could point out where you see this heavy-handed moderation you speak of, let me know.

Upthread.

I also thought I remembered you locking a thread where Steve and GZ were having a pointless-but-harmless argument about microphones, but maybe I am mistaken about that.

If you want to continue this discussion, it would probably be best to take it to ModReq or I Must Protest, which you're welcome to do.

No, there's nothing to be discussed -- I'm just registering my disagreement! Which you can take or leave, obviously.

That's cool. Just so everyone knows, I'm not ignoring what you have to say about this, and I'm not going to claim I might not be a bit quicker to take umbrage w/St3v3 than other posters...but at the same time, I don't think I made the wrong choice here, and hopefully soon we can all (including St3v3) get back to business as usual.

Ban John Justen!

SUGGESTION DULY NOTED.

Also I am glad to hear that he is as mental in real life. It's the little things like that that make life liveable...

Thanks for the suggestions. It's going quite well so far - I've already confirmed the 2nd night of the tour at the Casa Blanca Lounge in Phoenix.

Does anybody know anything about The Jumping Turtle in San Diego? They offered me the date I want, but I'm not sure if it's the place for us.

Steve, did you like the NYC gig? We are thinking about doing some warm up gigs and don't know where to do it.

i have a question for you steve -- why didn't you include portland on your west coast tour? it seems like you're not just taking the 5 north .... why? im sure you could hook up a gig in eugene, portland, olympia, and seattle or some combination thereof ... right? sorry if im being dense

Jubalique - the room was really nice. Small, but you could fit a decent crowd in there, with a proper stage and a nice sound system, and a sound guy who seemed to know what he was doing. The location seemed good, too. The shitty parts were that there were no draught beers (and they didn't have anything really good in bottles), we didn't get any free drinks, the gig almost fell through a week before the show because the two bookers didn't communicate with each other, and despite the 15 or so audience members who paid a $5 cover, we didn't see any money from the door. So I'd say it was a nice room, but not very artist-friendly.

uptown - I am planning on playing all of those places. I'm thinking we'll go SF, Sacramento, Chicho, Arcata/Eureka, Eugene, Portland, Olympia/Tacoma, then Seattle, then east to Walla Walla, then Bend, then back through CA to Vegas again. I know about lots of venues in SF, Portland, and Seattle, so that's why I didn't ask for help there. But I'm still looking for ideas for any of the other cities.

The first night of the tour is going to be at The Beauty Bar in Las Vegas.

Thanks Steve! Hmm... Maybe we'll consider somewhere else, we've been asked to play a couple other places in the city but want to start at smaller venues. Does anyone know a drummer? :)

I could still use some venue names in Tucson, AZ, Eugene, OR, Olympia, WA, Bend, OR, Fresno, CA, Walla Walla, WA/eastern WA, Arcata/Eureka, CA, Sacramento, CA, and anywhere else in northern CA.

use google dipshit

http://www.byofl.org

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=EGLC%2CEGLC%3A2007-20%2CEGLC%3Aen&q=arcata+free+weekly

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=EGLC,EGLC:2007-20,EGLC:en&q=tucson+free+weekly

BAN MR. QUE

I already saw your google and byofl suggestions, dude. I have booked many shows with both. They're of course useful, but don't substitute for hearing directly from other people who have done shows in those venues/cities before, hence this thread. Plus byofl is mostly punk shows in a guy's basement.

where are you playing in portland steve

I've contacted several Portland places so far (Doug Fir, Holocene, Wonder Ballroom, Rock n Roll Pizza, Mississippi Pizza, Berbati's Pan, Towne Lounge) but I'm still waiting to hear back. Let me know if any of those are lame or if you know any other awesome ones. I know of a bunch more but am unsure of their awesomeness.

Also I think we're going to play The Knitting Factory in Hollywood, in their Alterknit Lounge.

hahahah you should definitely play rock n roll pizza if you want to play on the outskirts of town to an audience of teenage heshers and meth heads. doug fir, holocene, towne lounge, berbati's, and wonder are all good, 'premier' type venues. not huge, but big (relatively speaking, im talking indie bands) touring bands come through those places. try also the artistery, the know, dante's, and the tube, in that order. but really, rock n roll pizza will probably be the most ... memorable.

Ha, sounds like some of the places we played last time. Well cool, thanks for the tips.

Schedule so far:

Thursday, 10/11 @ The Beauty Bar, Las Vegas, NV
Friday, 10/12 @ Casa Blanca Lounge, Phoenix, AZ
Saturday, 10/13 @ ???, Tucson, AZ
Sunday, 10/14 @ The Jumping Turtle, San Marcos, CA
Tuesday, 10/15 @ The Knitting Factory, Los Angeles, CA

How far apart do you guys think tour stops have to be? The Jumping Turtle consider themselves a San Diego club, but they're in San Marcos, ~30 miles outside San Diego. Would it be stupid to try and play San Diego proper the day before?

It's annoying how if you try to play a club on a weekend they'll say no because you need to bring out a lot of people on a weekend, and if you try to play on a weekday they say no because they don't do shows on weekdays unless a lot of people are going to come.

Anyone have an opinion on the Mississippi Pizza Pub in Portland?

That's why you just make up some lies about your draw (xpost)

Then when no one shows up you just have to say "Sorry dude, I was expecting a hundred people but you know, everyone's at homecoming, and Arrested Development is playing down the street," and all the other bullshit lines that promoters and bookers feed you when THEY don't bring the people they promise.

Maybe this deserves its own thread - does anyone have experience working with a PR company? Any advice on worthwhileness, what to look for, etc.?

How about Kelly's Olympian in Portland? Good place?

missippi pizza and kelly's are visible, heard-of places

Cool, well we confirmed at Kelly's where we will be joined by a certain other ILXor who also posted on this thread. We're also going to play the Frog and Peach Pub in San Luis Obispo, and if I don't hear from somebody at U of O soon we'll play at the Black Forest in Eugene. And we might do Edinburgh Castle in SF.

nb i have no idea what kelly's qua VENUE is like, but qua bar it is irish, downtown, and doesn't exactly pull a hipster crowd

but it is popular, should have qualified previous post by noting that

I've never worked with a PR person other than a college radio promoter, but I think they obvious questions to ask are these:

-what can they do for me that I can't do myself?
-what can they do for me in a more efficient way than I can do myself, or that I'm not willing/don't have time to do myself
-have they been successful at getting other acts press or promotional opportunities they wouldn't have otherwise gotten?
-do they have strong relationships with press people that could benefit you?
-what else do they do? postering/flyering? "stealth marketing?" (and if they do this they'd better be damn good at it, b/c nothing looks more laughable than botched stealth marketing)

I mean if you're smart enough to book a tour on short notice, you're probably smart enough to figure out how to get your disc to press people and how to target the right publications, and maybe even how to get people to flyer for you (although this can be a bitch), so you have to see what the company can offer

Yeah, those are all things I've been asking, Hurting. Seems like they'd basically be doing what I've already been doing, except: 1) in a much higher volume, 2) without having to waste time reseaching, 3) with an established reputation, 4) with better design skills/presentation. It looks like we're probably going to go ahead with it.

"Hey I have some shitty news. I have to cancel the show on october 11th because my boss in NY booked a special party. Is there another date you can play?"

This after we confirmed it a month ago. Why are these people so bad at their jobs?

"These people" meaning bookers. Sure, they're not booking bands full-time and probably deal with a lot of bullshit too, but the amount of ineptitude I see makes me wonder how some of these folks don't get replaced by someone who has their shit together.

Because no one who has their shit together would be stupid enough to suffer through the work tons/make nothing ratio that small club bookers deal with.

A lot of the booking people I know have to cover the difference between the door and the guarantee out of their own pay. NO THANK YOU.

Not saying that bookers bailing on you doesn't suck or anything, just that this sort of thing is almost par for the course these days.

Email back: "We like special parties!"

Because no one who has their shit together would be stupid enough to suffer through the work tons/make nothing ratio that small club bookers bands deal with.

But I digress.

Yeah, I know it's par for the course, but it's still annoying. At least some folks try to maintain a veneer of professionalism with this stuff.

all the more reason to avoid small venues and just do basements/lofts/whatever else shows if you can make contacts with the people who do that in various cities.

Can anyone recommend any cool local indie rock/indie pop bands I could get in touch with for Seattle, WA or Bend, OR?

Here's our current schedule:

10/12 Phoenix AZ, Casablanca Lounge
10/13 Tucson AZ, Dry River
10/14 San Marcos CA, Jumping Turtle
10/16 Los Angeles CA, Knitting Factory
10/17 San Luis Obispo CA, Frog and Peach Pub
10/18 San Francisco CA, Edinburgh Castle
10/20 Redding CA, Red White and Brew Pub
10/21 Eugene OR, The Black Forest
10/23 Portland OR, Kelly's Olympian
10/25 Seattle WA, Mars Bar
10/27 Bend OR, 541 Lounge

Updated schedule:

Wednesday, 10/10/07 @ The Art Bar in Las Vegas, NV
Friday, 10/12/07 @ Casa Blanca Lounge in Phoenix, AZ
Saturday, 10/13/07 @ Dry River in Tucson, AZ
Sunday, 10/14/07 @ The Jumping Turtle in San Marcos, CA
Tuesday, 10/16/07 @ The Knitting Factory in Los Angeles, CA (w/ Devon Williams)
Wednesday, 10/17/07 @ The Frog and Peach Pub in San Luis Obispo, CA
Thursday, 10/18/07 @ Edinburgh Castle in San Francisco, CA (w/ Maggie Morris)
Saturday, 10/20/07 @ The Red White and Brew Pub in Redding, CA
Sunday, 10/21/07 @ The Black Forest in Eugene, OR (w/ Acute)
Tuesday, 10/23/07 @ Kelly's Olympian in Portland, OR (w/ The Minor Thirds and The Harvey Girls)
Thursday, 10/25/07 @ The Mars Bar in Seattle, WA
Friday, 10/26/07 @ The 4th Ave. Tavern in Olympia, WA
Saturday, 10/27/07 @ The 541 Lounge in Bend, OR
Saturday, 11/3 @ The Beauty Bar in Las Vegas, NV

I could still use suggestions for bands to contact in Bend, OR or Seattle, WA.

Does anybody know any cool bands in the Redding, CA area?

Ugh, wish I had seen original post when posted!

I will be happy to help indie bands around St. Louis if anyone needs it, and I've got a house to stay at. Email in profile.

We found a local for Redding (Belda Beast) who also hooked us up with a Chico show, where we're playing at The Salem House on 10/19. I love it when things work out.

Can anybody help with a house show or something in Tacoma, WA, or Santa Rosa/Modesto/Sacramento/Fresno/Visalia, CA?

Our first show is tomorrow. We're still waiting to hear about a couple of dates, but here's how the schedule looks right now:

Wednesday, 10/10/07 @ The Art Bar in Las Vegas, NV
Friday, 10/12/07 @ Casa Blanca Lounge in Phoenix, AZ
Saturday, 10/13/07 @ Dry River in Tucson, AZ
Sunday, 10/14/07 @ The Jumping Turtle in San Marcos, CA
Tuesday, 10/16/07 @ The Knitting Factory in Los Angeles, CA (w/ Devon Williams)
Wednesday, 10/17/07 @ The Frog and Peach Pub in San Luis Obispo, CA
Thursday, 10/18/07 @ Edinburgh Castle in San Francisco, CA (w/ Maggie Morris)
Friday, 10/19/07 @ The Salem House in Chico, CA (w/ Belda Beast)
Saturday, 10/20/07 @ The Red White and Brew Pub in Redding, CA (w/ Belda Beast)
Sunday, 10/21/07 @ The Black Forest in Eugene, OR (w/ Acute)
Tuesday, 10/23/07 @ Kelly's Olympian in Portland, OR (w/ The Minor Thirds and The Harvey Girls)
Thursday, 10/25/07 @ The Mars Bar in Seattle, WA
Friday, 10/26/07 @ The 4th Ave. Tavern in Olympia, WA
Saturday, 10/27/07 @ The 541 Lounge in Bend, OR
Sunday, 10/28/07 @ The Gray House in Arcata, CA
Saturday, 11/3 @ The Beauty Bar in Las Vegas, NV

I think it went pretty well. There's no zig-zagging on this one, which is nice. And we got a van.

And thanks everyone for your help.

Have fun!

Thanks!

We also just added Thursday, 11/1 @ The Casbah in San Diego.

Also added 10/30 @ The Press Club in Sacramento, CA

The skinny so far:

Art Bar, Las Vegas - shit, don't bother

Casablanca Lounge, Phoenix - cool promoters, cool people, very generous with money. Too many bands were on the bill, but what can you do.

Dry River, Tucson - Nice little space, the girl who organized it was cool and generous with money. The only lame part was all the hipsters who were only interested in seeing the one local band they knew.

Jumping Turtle, San Marcos - Nice little room, very good sound, lots of good beer. But don't deal with Irv Johnson of BGO promotions, who totally dropped the ball and fucked everybody over.

Tour finished tonight! A good time all around, minus some awful van problems. Here's the skinny on the rest of the venues:

Knitting Factory, Alterknit Lounge, LA - Very small room, nice atmosphere. Good beers on tap. Sound was really good, but they were super-strict about finishing by a particular (and needlessly early) time. Lots of folks have told us that attendance there is "hit or miss." The Tuesday we played there fell on the latter side, but it was fun anyway.

Frog and Peach Pub, San Luis Obispo - Pretty much a waste of time except they paid well. They don't have any microphones (and neglected to tell us this until we arrived) and it didn't seem like anybody goes there to hear bands. The local band never showed up.

Edinburgh Castle, San Francisco - Very nice place. They had a back room for bands that was separate from the bar area, which worked well. Sound was decent, although not worth the cut of the door they took for it.

The Salem House, Chico - These people are awesome, play there.

Red White and Brew Pub, Redding - Really cool place, now sadly closed.

The Black Forest, Eugene - Nice room, good sound, cool sound guy. The booker doesn't seem to know what she's doing (the bill had two touring bands and no locals on a Sunday night), which the people at the venue seemed apologetic about, but apparently it's going to be under new management soon.

Kelly's Olympian, Portland - Very nice atmosphere in the room, cool marquee outside. Not fun however due to sound which was terrible onstage and mediocre in the room. The booker/sound guy was nice at least.

The Mars Bar, Seattle - Nice place, great sound, good jukebox, good food in the cafe portion of the venue.

The 4th Ave. Tavern - Kind of a lame bar, but the sound guy was cool and the sound was great. Pretty good about money (they pay 10% of the night's alcohol sales).

The 541 Lounge in Bend, OR - Our van broke down on the way there. Despite that we made it to the venue at 9 PM, at which point we were told that we were too late and shouldn't bother setting up, and we were sent home with half of our guarantee. It didn't look like a cool place to play anyway.

The Press Club, Sacramento - Great room, great sound, good bill, generous with money, sound guy and booker were really cool.

The Casbah, San Diego - Nice room, great sound, good beers on tap (Arrogant Bastard Ale!), the best hospitality (4 drink tickets per band member!). Pain in the ass to book, not very communicative about details, pretty good about money.

The Beauty Bar, Las Vegas - We played outside in the back, which was pretty cool. The sound was good, but the sound guy was super disinterested/not friendly. The bill was ridiculous and the girl who books the place has no idea what she's doing. Popular place though.
----------

That about does it. Thanks again to everyone who offered suggestions.

Oh yeah, and Beauty Bar was pretty good about money.

Also, if anyone is interested in my giant list of west coast venues/booking contact info, let me know.

I posted a more fleshed out tour wrapup here, if anyone is interested.

Anyway, I hope that some of the info in this thread will be useful to others, and that other bands planning tours will feel free to request help in here as well.