Conception: The Poll

i love you guys

LOL I kept misreading it too, good work

I feel the need — the need to breed!

hmm...must be something in the air tonite

I almost decided on the bus this week to have a baby sooner rather than later - I am looking at waiting about 5 years as I want to go to University first. Babies be persuasive.

My girlfriend is still on the pill, but these days "Hey, wanna pretend that you're trying to impregnate me to make babies?" is the kind of dirty talk around my house.

Then I'm all like "Yes, let's merge our haploid cells into a single diploid cell called a zygote."

Nope. Nothing. I went through a brief OHMIGOD BABIES MUST BREED NOW in my mid-30s but thank fuck that passed and I went back to normal. Phew. Bring on menopause.

Wow godzilla, pretty hot!

I'll adopt someday.

No kids, no desire. The cluck has come and gone for both of us.

No desire, and my wife is even more negative on breeding.

thats so weird to me. what are you going to do with your life?

and i dont mean that in a snarky way!!! if it were me without the kid day to day it would be tv and work i guess.

skiing occasionally

I'd go back to writing shitty Sabbath Meets Uncle Tupelo knock-off's.

What did you do before you had a kid? I assume people who don't have kids basically just keep on living like they always did, with some inevitable changes that come with age. I'd be perfectly happy with that, though I'm not sure yet whether or not I want to have kids.

Hopefully in about 2-3 years although by that point I'll be nearing "advanced maternal age". I can't wait to have babbys but am def enjoying being selfish for a little while longer.

im in PANIC because im already in high risk age at 36 my obgyn put me on folic acid saying that it lessens the chance of birth defects dramatically if the mother has been taking them for a year before getting pregs. still, i hate that i even have to worry about this shit. and i hate that unless i have multiples this will be it. and i hate that i didnt have the opportunity to say 'lets enjoy the beats for 5 or 6 years alone before we have another one'. fuck age.

Yeah I hate that it's even an issue or will be by the time we're ready for babbys but I honestly can't imagine having had a kid in my twenties. No way no how.

I believe that yr risk of birth defects and stuff is slightly higher at 36 but it's much better than that of a 40 yr old. That said my mom had me at 39 and I'm pretty much perfect and awesome. ;-)

Also Sunny yr chance of multiples increases with age so you never know!!! :-)

if it were me without the kid day to day it would be tv and work i guess.

poor pp ;_;

haha

yeah. my dr said 36/37/38 is okay but 39/40 the risks skyrocket. although he also said he has a patient who had a perfectly healthy babby at 45.

What am I doing with my life? Nothing much. I don't think that spawning really betters yr life or gives you any purpose you didn't have before, tho. At best, you have some caretakers for when you are old and feeble. That's not much of a legit motivation, is it? I don't like children, aside from seeing friends of mine with kids for whom it makes them happy. I don't much have any desire to see my genes live on, and there are plenty of folks out there better at raising kids than I'll ever be. So why bother? I've honestly never found children to be anything but annoying, so I'm leaving the job of spawning to folks who think otherwise.

When I was 20, I thought I just didn't want children then, but that I'd probably change my mind later. When I was 30, it dawned on me that I likely wasn't going to change my mind. I'm 40 now, and I still feel the same.

Actually having kids does make your life a trillion times better but maybe thats on a person by person basis. its got nothing to do with someone looking after you when youre old and its nothing to do with genetics and its nothing like hanging out with other peoples kids

ps: i also felt the exact same way you do for most of my life. turns out i was wrong wrong wrong wrong b ut thats me and im def of the opinion that most people shouldnt have kids because most people either hate kids or cant get past themselves enough to care about someone else

pps: that doesnt mean you

i always wonder about adults who are very anti-kids, and i don't mean this in any accusatory way, no one has to like anything or anyone if that's the way they feel, but did you like being a kid? in other words, when you were young, did you really dislike your peers and couldn't wait to grow up? did you prefer the company of grown-ups? you remember when you were a kid and there were adults who clearly hated you just for being young and sort of annoying? kids are a mixed bag, for sure, just like grown ups, but i would think having been a kid you'd be a bit more sympathetic towards them. just trying to get an understanding of why people feel so strongly anti-kid, not implying that if you don't want kids there is something wrong with you.

i guess what im saying is seeing a new life grow and learn and the absolute purity of a new unaffected person all can open your eyes to an extreme form of beauty that is really hard to get your mind around. Of course, you have to be watching. I dont understand why anyone would want to miss that. But, again, I know most people shouldnt breed so its a pickle, right?

(xposts to lib)

tell me more about this trillion times better

i mean, beeps is pretty damn cute but i don't have to deal with her less cute moments. you and pp seem awesome by yrselves; why is this so much better?

xps

I'm not criticizing yr choices, sunny. You asked what I'm going to do with my life, tho, so just consider that my answer.

lib is a wise man, i.e. if he feels he wouldn't make a good father, he's probably right; i pretty much felt as he does about childrearing throughout my adult life, i have to say. unfortunately, now that i'm goin' on 44, i realize that i would make a GODDAMN GOOD FATHER!!!--this after having been involved with the raising/caretaking of my two now teenage nieces, lo these past 15 years or so. curses! if i knew what i know now when i was 27...

can we please drop this not wanting kids = yr selfish business? because (1) it's not true and (2) it's insulting.

oh, but it is true, actually. how could it be anything but? yer right about it being inulting, tho.

I don't think it's any more or less true than having kids = yr selfish

well, it's certainly selfish from a biological pass-on-yer-genes-to-the-next-generation pov. personally, i don't see what's so bad/wrong about being/admitting that yer selfish in that regard. who cares? it's not against the law to NOT have children yet, after all.

"think! think! it's not illegal yet!"

What I meant was you could just easily say that following the biological imperative "I must pass on my genes" is selfish given the current state of overpopulation etc and that not having children is in fact an altruistic decision.

And that both views are kinda bullshit.

when you were young, did you really dislike your peers and couldn't wait to grow up?

haha, YES.

thats so weird to me. what are you going to do with your life?

I'm not anti-kids. I wanted them and planned for them for awhile. But I (we) have now made the decision to not have them.

The rest of my life? Live a simple life away from the city, write, go to school again, look after and love my four nieces/nephew as a doting, only aunt. Hopefully they'll remember me in my old age and always invite me over for thanksgiving.

I'm not ruling out adopting when I'm older, though. Who knows.

(Also, it would have been nice for this poll to end on 12/25.)

Lib I did consider your answer. I think if that kind of life is what you want then thats what you should have. I cant see any reason to critize it. However, implying that people have children to have someone to look after them when theyre old or so they can proudly see their genetics livinhg on is pretty fucking ridiculous. and, yeah, if you dont think you would be a good parent then im sure not going to argue.

mookie, beeps sure is cute but thats neither here nor there. for me its a trillion time better for the reasons i explained above but the real suprise is that ive discovered i side of me that can be happy and patient and continously amazed with life when before i was about 99.99% jaded. For me being jaded is a really hard way to live with myself.

and herro i dont think anyone (certainly not me) is saying not wanting kids is selfish because thats pretty dumb.

its kind of lame that you cant ask other peoples points of view and reasoning behind their major life decisions without people getting all pissed.

However, implying that people have children to have someone to look after them when theyre old or so they can proudly see their genetics livinhg on is pretty fucking ridiculous. and, yeah, if you dont think you would be a good parent then im sure not going to argue.

No, my point was that this is the only reason I would personally have for procreating, and it's not a very good reason to have, is it?

The old and feeb part, that is. The genetics is another argument.

yeah.

esp considering they probably wont! my mom always asks us when we are planning to put her in the "no name nursing home"

the answer is usually 'sooner than you think, lady'

indeed.

xxp

i want kids! it'll be megagroovy bringing them up

I really like children, and definitely understand the points sunny is making. But I've decided I almost defintely won't be having kids. I do think I'd be interested in working with foster children, or adopting older kids when I'm much older (and more settled in my life).

Here's my reasons for not having kids of my own:
-worried about birth defects and my ability to cope. All those interviews with parents of severely fucked up kids, they all say how enriched their life is, but I just don't buy that that's the case for everyone. i personally don't think I could cope.
-I got a ton of emotional baggage and damage from my own childhood that I just can't seem to get past. I'm petrified of bringing another emotionally retarded person into this world.
-I don't think I have the patience or tolerance for youngsters (not 24/7)
-I'm pretty selfish; I like spending money on myself, I like having my boyfriend all to myself.

none of these are necessarily rational, and when I've talked about these issues with friends they've oftentimes counter-argued - but this is just how I feel.

-worried about birth defects and my ability to cope. All those interviews with parents of severely fucked up kids, they all say how enriched their life is, but I just don't buy that that's the case for everyone. i personally don't think I could cope.

this is a huge thing for me in considering no 2 kid. honestly it frightens the living bejesus out of me and I often have thought of 'quitting while im ahead'.

the real suprise is that ive discovered i side of me that can be happy and patient and continously amazed with life when before i was about 99.99% jaded

sunny so OTM!! this is the joy my puppy has brought me after years of no responsibilities and confirmed that I do truly want to have children. in a few years. (Also my boyfriend is 6'4" to my 6'1" so we will have megababies! I owe the world the height injection.)

I think there should be a distinction here between reproduction and child-rearing. I am interested in the latter (adoption), but have never had a desire for the former.

in sum --> (raising kids =/= reproduction)

how come?

well I admit it makes sense. I used to tell myself I would only adopt but I'm feeling actual reproduction now (I want to know pregnancy, childbirth, as well as pass on my height if possible.. see: selfish, above) with a side of adoption after I've had my own child.

because they are not the same thing?

i feel like im speaking some martian language sometimes.

i know they arent the same but why adoption as opposed to making your own?

i don't know. i just have no desire to have babies, so i don't think i should. i do have the desire to care for a little person someday, but i don't care if she looks like me or comes from the same part of the world that i come from or even if she's a baby. (i would like her to be a girl, though)

i was an only child and never really saw/knew babies. without sounding like a cannibal, i just don't have a taste for them.

'Cause pregnancy and childbirth is mainly hormones and hydraulics, and raising the child is the real important work? That's a little more brusque than I intend, but that's the boiled down version. Plus it's the part where the dad can be more help.

how open yet so restrictive

"im scared shitless of childbirth" would make sense to me

RH: explain this "'Cause pregnancy and childbirth is mainly hormones and hydraulics,"

heck, i guess a boy would be ok, but i don't know anything about little boys. why would i want to make my own baby when there are so many other ones out there who are in need of love. what i have to offer is love, not a holding station. i can't explain it more than that -- i'm not afraid, just disinterested.

not that other people shouldn't be overjoyed with their homemade babies -- they're great! i'm impressed with your stamina! i just don't want one.

a holding station?

wow. i know you all are intelligent people who think about things carefully but im just feeling all frustrated over here not because i disagre or disapprove of anything you are saying but because i just plain dont understand it. hormones/hydralics/holding stations. i dont know what these refer to. :(

uhh maybe that sounded bad

i just don't care if there's a baby in my body, that's all. i would prefer to care for a kid outside my body.

so many other ones out there who are in need of love
this is what guilts/inspires me into deciding adoption has to be a part of my childhaving experience. I had the chance to foster my sister and couldn't and want to be someone who will be able to make a positive change in another child's life.

oh ok. yeah, i can totally dig that.

hey sunny I think that they are just trying to say that the having the child part is what's important to them, not the "creating a child" bit (hormones being feelings of continuing your genetic makeup? hydraulics being physically bearing a child?) I am guessing here of course

the only thing i think people miss when they adopt is the slow adaptation process to sharing parental duties. if you have never had another person to care for, and suddenly there is this person in your house, it could be a little (or a lot) awkward. whereas when people have babies (naturally), there is a period of time for the parents to accustom themselves to crying, feeding, duties of all kinds before the kid starts to walk/talk/ask questions.

i'm not even sure if anyone would allow me to adopt since i have no experience with children at all. i don't think i'll be heartbroken if it doesn't happen, but it would be fun if it did.

ok maybe not only thing, but the thing i think of the most

(xxxpost)yeah, i got it. kind of like its the marriage not the wedding that counts. I think thats a great attitude. All of the stuff I explained happens when you have a child is in no way exclusive to you creating that child yrself.

whats RHs opinion on nursing then? i didnt breastfeed beeps and although i got A LOT of muted backlash at the time im so thrilled with the huge part pp got to play in beeps infancy instead on her being glued to me 90% of the day. Plus I got some mad sleep. Sometime 4 hours at a time!!!

exactly!

It's really interesting to me to hear people speak of adoption in only rosy terms while there are a lot of other aspects to consider with adoption. It sometimes seems that people think adoption is the most moral or intelligent choice to make when it comes to raising kids and I don't necessarily agree that that's the case. I'm not saying that of anyone here btw - just made me think. Ok, this probably hasn't made any sense at all.

I am kind of confused! I think you're getting at peoples' need for adoption for reasons that aren't "moral" like sterility? But do you think that children shouldn't be adopted and should be left in conditions that might not be as beneficial as adoption?
(NB: I am not a "rip 'em out of their poor parents' arms" person, just a "don't make them live life in a foster home" person)

hey sunny I think that they are just trying to say that the having the child part is what's important to them, not the "creating a child" bit (hormones being feelings of continuing your genetic makeup? hydraulics being physically bearing a child?) I am guessing here of course

You guessed right! That's what I meant, SS, not meaning to disparage pregnancy and childbirth at all.

Sarah wasn't breastfed either, and you're exactly right about it getting the dad involved in feedings and such and letting the mom get some sleep. I won't say I took 50% of the night feedings, but I think I got close to 40%.

Oh let's see, just off the top of my head: where do you get the adoptable baby from? What countries of the world offer infants for American adoption, and how corrupt are the systems there? How much will the bribes run you, when you go to pick your kid up? Doesn't it seem weird to be contributing to a corrupt system that caused those thousands of kids to be left over for your selection in the first place? Did their parents actually give consent, did they sell their children for money, how desperately heartbroken were they to give up their offspring, and does that make it better or worse that you're taking them far away to raise them as an American?

Speaking of which, what do you do about the kid's birth culture/language/ethnicity? Learn Vietnamese? Raise them in your social or cultural strata as if there's no difference? Honor their birth family? Visit Romania with them when they're 15? Etc etc pretty much until adulthood.

And I don't even know anything about adoption!

since being with my boyfriend my maternal instincts have surfaced: there's definitely something to the idea of wanting to breed when you're mad in love. i've always been terrified of the longterm commitment to one person that having a child would mean (not staying together, but that other person being in your life), but that's not even an issue with current boyfriend.

but still: there's clucky feelings and then there's reality. i just don't think kids are for me, and my bf feels the same. this could change in the next few years, but i'm doubtful.

FFM -

What I meant was that I've heard people say things along the lines of "well I don't want to have bio children because the world is overpopulated and so I'm just going to adopt instead" and view that as a very noble choice which I guess it is. Of course I don't think that children should be left in horrible conditions less beneficial than adoption but I have known a few adoptees and as well as people who have adopted and I think the trauma that sometimes accompanies adoption (for both the child and parents) is often glossed over. I think the issues that come with adoption aren't addressed enough. Does that make more sense?

Also pretty much everything Laurel just mentioned.

I'm not anti-adoption by any means but I just think it's a very complex issue.

And from what I've heard, adopting AMERICAN kids can be v hard because the agencies want specific ideals from familes, plus even domestic kids don't nec let you off the hook on racial issues.

wow, well i guess no child rearing for me then

(none of the above complex issues re: adoption are news to me, btw...)

this thread desperately cries out for Matt's/Dimension 5ive's input.

yeah but hey! I'm a happy-slappy Canadian*! Admittedly I don't know anything about adoption qualifications because the time for me to do that research and make that decision is some time off, but in Ontario some children in the (government run) Children's Aid foster homes are up for adoption as opposed to just fostering* and those are who I had in mind. There've been a lot of kids in foster homes in my family/social circle and so it's a matter close to me.

*Fostering is also an option I am considering BUT I have witnessed what it does to a child both first-hand and through my siblings to be moved around again and again and hope to offer a child a more permanent situation than the one-year stint that I have seen a lot of foster kids go through. I both respect and detest that the very first sign of trouble between foster parent/child or foster child/foster child results in a change of homes.

er, no asterisk on the Canadian*!

A. Panda, I would have guessed that you knew all of that already!

I was just thinking that about D5 actually.

La Lechera - like I said I'm not anti-adoption but it sometimes bugs me that people (not you of course just generally) sometimes talk about it like it's this completely noble and selfless action while making out that those who want their own children more selfish etc.

this shit is heartbreaking:

http://www.childrenawaitingparents.org/contact.html?gclid=COS1-eeq-pUCFQpDgQodCVvFEg

yeah, where D5 at? doesn't he post on ilx anymore?

xp

It's completely heartbreaking esp the older kids who will most likely have severe emotional issues to deal with. To be honest I'm not sure that I would be strong enough to take on that kind of responsibility.

There are people who do absolutely wonderful jobs with those kids though. My brother was well on his way to becoming an after school special, but he's been living three years in a foster home that is just so full of love, patience and understanding. He's grown into the coolest little kid - drama club, guitar, tons of girls throwing themselves at him on Facebook (and I assume IRL.. I don't go to his high school). I'd love to try to be that kind of person. His foster family also did the "own kids first to get the hang of it, then help others out" thing I am aiming for - their children are grown up - and the thing I love the most is that in their family, the mom works outside the home and it's the dad who stays home with my bro and his other two foster brothers. My brother is so happy he even calls him Dad (though I think he tries to avoid doing that around me which he doesn't need to do).

Intense stuff guys! I gotta go home, don't see my absence to any remarks as dodging the question..

D5 has wisconsin and molly - he doesnt need no ilx anymore!

just wanna say that imo sunny successor is one of the smartest broads around

I was just thinking that about D5 actually.

La Lechera - like I said I'm not anti-adoption but it sometimes bugs me that people (not you of course just generally) sometimes talk about it like it's this completely noble and selfless action while making out that those who want their own children more selfish etc.

― Fr. Jemima Racktouey (ENBB), Friday, September 26, 2008 4:47 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark

imo couples who are capable of reproducing normally but elect to adopt are stealin all tha kids from the couples who CANT reproduce and who have to adopt if they ever want a damn babby

now that is some serious bullshit!

haha this crazy orphan shortage in the world

the babywell's runnin dry!!!

dontcha mean babbywell?

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i have no memory of this

Of conception?