2015 ALDS - Rangers v Blue Jays

voting rangers. triumph of hope over experience

got no gripe with either team. voted blue jays bc the rangers got to two world series in a row recently, but certainly wouldn't be mad to see them advance.

I'd like to see the Rangers win one year to make up for that nightmarish WS loss a few years ago. This is not that year.

Pulling for the Jays.

Rooting Jays overall, but also for Mitch (local guy) Moreland.

Blue Jays

Jays, and a couple broken legs for Cole Hamels

Really, thanks a lot.

http://i1059.photobucket.com/albums/t427/sayhey1/jays_zpstfgg6map.jpg

(As if that isn't bad enough, they also pick us to win.)

anyone remember when SI picked the cleveland indians to win the WS? that was funny

(tbf the jays do have a reasonable chance to get there imo)

Thanks for the jinx, SI. If Price breaks his leg during warmups then I'm hunting down Verducci.

Jayson Stark also picked em, he has a terrible history

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Funny interview clip on the radio this morning. A reporter was (I'm paraphrasing) asking Donaldson if he was worried that the regular season was a fluke, that the Jays offense might sputter in the playoffs. Donaldson, with just the right amount of incredulity, sarcasm, and impatience: "Have you seen our lineup?"

i've got the butterflies! made it clear to my boss I'm a write off after 3:30 and will *not* be attending the 4:30 meeting!
managed to land a great seat at tomorrow's game - but I'm in court in the morning, so I'm hoping to god I can get my thing heard early.

I'm nervous too, for an odd reason: how relatively few close games we played during the season. I completely understand that lack of close games is a sign of strength, not weakness (obviously, if you win them, I mean). But the playoffs inevitably come down to close games more often than not.

"Since the All-Star break, the Blue Jays have been the 1927 Yankees"

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/2015-mlb-alds-preview-rangers-blue-jays-astros-royals/

Whoa, you have tickets to tomorrow's game Thermo? How?

I got high friends in places.

like in the cn tower?

after this game, you will know everything you need to know about the Turf.

also, crap, rooting for the Jays but very sad to see Beltre go this way. Hope it's just a one game precaution.

Beltre would have had that.

After seeing Donaldson's hair, 100% certain that Trout deserves the MVP.

Donaldson hurt?

Ooooh this is bad this is bad this is bad

This is all very troubling...If Donaldson went out for the half-inning after the play (I was in transit), hopefully this is just precautionary.

Ezequiel Carrera still likes the head-first slide into first.

Too bizarre that it would be Beltre/Donaldson, both because of DP balls around second.

Might want to take Kela out of there.

homers ahoy

Im just glad theres not a third consecutive shutout

Between Price and Donaldson, this city's about to experience a psychic meltdown over the next 18 hours.

Batista injured too? The SI jinx lives on like a motherfucker.

or the taylor swift jinx

or the toronto's sports franchises jinx

or the teams wearing blue cannot win a world series jinx (last time? 1993!) (and no i don't count navy or teal)

do u guys know about the stars at night?

they're big and bright

@based_ball
David Price's team has lost all 6 of his playoff starts. tied for second-longest streak ever. upside: longest streak of 7 is Randy Johnson's

I've already formulated a theory for this series: we're reliving '85 against the Royals. We were facing a team that had come close a number of times, at a point where they were somewhat forgotten. We were already looking ahead to the Series. I can see similarities with Texas. If they were to beat us, I wouldn't be shocked if they went on to win everything. Anyway, at least Donaldson/Bautista are back tomorrow.

Rangers only had five hits in the game, but they were all scorched.

fuckin pete rose on fox sports broadcast.. crazy.. ibanez seems pretty solid too.

AND DONTRELLE WILLIS????

not sure if he's the best guy to talk about mechanics tho lol

This looks pretty textbook...

http://cdn.lightgalleries.net/4bd5ec0d8d8d9/images/Dontrelle_Willis-2.jpg

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

Beltre out, Donaldson and Bautista in lineup

lotta pressure on Marcus Earl Stroman

he's gonna be okay

@BMcCarthy32
A gentle reminder, as my brain was dying and in need of immediate medical intervention, I passed a concussion test.

@keithlaw
Pete Rose wants to know why you didn't want the complete game

yikes

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BOD-beCCEAE-xYZ.jpg:large

I'd say Pete is perhaps not the guy to ask for such medical advice. I kinda think he doesn't have an off switch, which is probably why he was constantly looking for action with gambling (and unlike Jordan wasn't smart enough to stick to golf, poker or the horses). Frank Robinson and other early teammates have thought Rose was a bit nuts since he started playing, as the guy would often seem to not sleep staying out all night and ending up a the park early. The guy has to have had the constitution of an ox as most of your barnstorming players that dive around like that end up injured messes (Kirk Gibson), but he was able to pull it off for over 20 years.

What a crazy first inning. I couldn't believe the botched rundown.

I never thought I would prefer a Bob Costas-led broadcast team to anything, but last night's broadcast team was so horrible even Costas' voice comes as a relief.

@baseball_ref
Chris Colabello just had the 5th unassisted ground ball double play by a 1B in postseason history

Odor ballsy taking 3rd!

dude has wheels wow

how long before MLB makes div series 4 of 7?

why did chris colabello double pump on the throw to third
why did chris colabello fail to get the out at 1 on the choo scoring play
why did chris colabello almost not get josh hamilton
why did prince fielder hand chris colabello the weirdo double play

that was all of the baseball i get to watch today, lunch is over, what a ripoff

time to slap Cole around

The broadcast team has been praising Colabello's defense all game long. Obviously they haven't watched a Jays game this season.

how long before MLB makes div series 4 of 7?

― skateboards are the new combover (Dr Morbius)

I'm all for this, but only if they shorten the regular season, which won't happen.

Costas claiming that Stroman is "settling in", but he's been good the entire game, the defense let him down. Only DeShields' hit (that popped out of Bautista's glove) was hit hard.

What's up with the strike zone tonight?

What's up with the strike zone tonight?

Likely to apply to Royals/Astros as well since Angel Hernandez will be behind the plate.

Angel H is the absolute worst

THAT's who should sacrifice with 0 out, pitchers and Ryan Goins!

that is vic carapazza

40 or so pitches for Stroman through the first two innings (in part because of bad defense behind him), now he's at 89 pitches through seven.

The Rangers have been aggressive this series, Price had terrible command yesterday and still threw less than 100 pitches through seven.

don't get bunting with Choo!

don't get a lot of things in that inning

KLaw thunderstruck at no righty to face Napoli

need a R Martin blast i think

Napoli was 2 for 17 vs Cecil in his career, the ball was hit into the hole vacated by the shift, can't fault Gibbons for that strategy.

I'm nervous with Osuna out there, considering how shaky he was in September, but he looked sharp.

I'm in no mood for extras, the Jays need to win this in the bottom of the ninth.

napoli is .278/.390/.527 against lefties in his career, which is a better sample size than 17 at bats. whatevs, tho -- it was a nice 'piece' of hitting

KLaw's reaction was "it is SEVENTEEN FREAKING AT BATS"

they have Jim "Sub-McCarver" Kaat working this game, eh

Albert Belle sighting!

In more than 200 PA's this year, Cecil had virtually no platoon split. Seventeen at bats isn't a small sample size vs a specific pitcher IMO.

Also Cecil isn't a situational lefty, he's been the Jays best reliever for most of the season and should probably be closing games. I had no problem with him facing Napoli.

hoping we get 3 games going simultaneously at some point

it's been suggested that cecil and osuna are basically the only relievers gibbons trusts, which is probably more important to him than napoli's platoon split

dirty takeout slide by napoli too

i hope Thermo is... stayin hydrated.

holiday weekend, at least

Sanchez looking good.

knew i not Pompey?

welp

do we see a putative starter relieve soon?

Lewis and Holland were warming up for Texas in the eighth. If it comes to this for the Jays they'll have to burn Estrada, no way you trust a knuckleballer in a tie game in extras.

Nobody can make heads or tails of the strike zone today.

That last called ball was a dead bullseye

"Maybe Donaldson said something to him."

oh, edwin

Obviously there is some culture shock on the part of Kela since he has spent many summers outside the contiguous United States.

Jim Kaat would like to seem some bunts.

This is gonna be the inning, guys

and walks

Father Time in for Jays

@Ken_Rosenthal
Feeling among some on #Rangers bench is that Donaldson was upset that Kela quick-pitched him.

B-b-but Jim Kaat informed us that Kela "came out of a tough area where he's used to a lot of violence."

hoping we get 3 games going simultaneously at some point

― skateboards are the new combover (Dr Morbius), Friday, October 9, 2015

90 minutes til the dream!

"It's not quick-pitching, it's pitching quick!" -- Jim Kaat

latroy getting hit hard

Whose bright idea was it to pitch Hawkins in the 14th. Why are we using our 6th and 7th best relievers in the 14th inning? This should have been Estrada.

The classic baseball movie For Love of the Game

ross ohlendorf is not throwing 97mph come on

@mccoveychron
Darryl Strawberry was 1-for-4 in his career against the 76-year-old announcer of this game, and 3-for-6 against the losing pitcher.

@pgammo
Richie Garcia was one of the best umpires, ever, son-in-law Vic Carapazza endured a brutal atmosphere and, in the end, had no impact on win

I watched doofus managers screw up bullpen management in the playoffs year after year, and now we know that Gibbons is exactly that kind of manager. You can't fucking lose a tied playoff game with your 6th and 7th best relievers on the mound, period.

We had the whole school in the gym this afternoon, then I watched at work till nearly the end. Left in disgust/heartbreak once Texas made it 6-4.

If Edwin's ball goes out I wouldn't be saying this, but as I posted before the series started, I was uneasy about our prospects in close games. From Donaldson through Martin, the Jays spent the last half of today's game trying to hit one out. There was no attempt to go the opposite way, etc. I'm not saying bunt; just cut down on your swing a little bit.

Can't blame the loss on the appeal at second--lots of chances to win before that. But they did get it wrong. We weren't sure for replay after replay, and then, just before the umps took their headphones off, there was a replay that made it plain as day there was daylight between the foot and the base.

I'm tired of waiting for Tulowitzki to hit. He's been a far greater fielder than I expected. With the bat, a complete washout.

Agreed about the Jays' poor approach at the plate in extras. Almost every Ranger reliever was throwing serious gas, don't try to be a hero, just get on base. The Rangers' winning rally started with two out and nobody on. There were plenty of other opportunities to win the game, you can point fingers at a long list of people before you'd get to the lost challenge in the 14th.

that was difficult to sit through.

Agreed. I think the call was 100% wrong, but that's not why we lost.

The most frustrating at bat for me was Bautista's against Dyson. I forget the exact situation, but I'm sitting there thinking "You cannot hit a homer off this guy--he'll be throwing sinkers at the knees, so don't even try." And Bautista swung from the heels at two sinkers towards his ankles. There just seemed to be no cognizance of the situation.

And, I meant to add, Bautista is a smart, disciplined hitter. He's not Justin Smoak--that AB really perplexed me.

update: stars at night, still big and bright

gotta disagree about Estrada. i might have used Hendricks before Hawkins or even Sanchez, but i think it's too big of a gamble to bring in a guy who has spent the last week thinking he was going to start. the Jay's have an amazing offense and it's not unreasonable to expect *someone* to do *something* in the time they had.
and ffs sake what was with Donaldson chirping? all i saw at the game was Kela was suddenly walking towards the plate. i came home to see Donaldson yapping at him about some bs.

other things that annoyed me about this game: the strike zone and Colabello throwing home instead of turning 2.

tv just showed donaldson saying 'fuck you (bitch)' a couple times; we couldn't see if kela said anything or not. in such cases i tend to side with the non-absurd-haircut-guy despite my jays fandom

The bullpen was empty, and they were one or maybe two innings away from having to go to either Dickey or Estrada. Of course you don't want to burn the next game's starter but it's not May, it's the playoffs, and you have to feel better about Estrada giving you potentially five or six innings than hoping for the back of the bullpen to deliver. Hendriks had a good season overall but he wasn't good over the last two months, he's probably gassed after a long season, there's a reason he's at the bottom of the pecking order now.

Speaking of not managing like it's May, Stroman shouldn't have come out for the eighth. Sure, he'd only thrown about 90 pitches, but it's a one run lead and each game is too important, play whatever matchups you need to get the last six outs and get out of there with a win. This is exactly how games are lost in the playoffs, Matt Williams for example messed up Washington's season last year by doing exactly this kind of bullshit (riding his starters for an inning too long, trusting a tie game to his 7th best reliever when Strasburg was available, etc.)

I hear what you're saying - but I don't think I can get too bent out of shape when he's only thrown 90 pitches. And he'd looked fine going into the inning.

stroman was only out there to face the righty leadoff hitter -- against the fact that it was de shields' fourth time at him. didn't pan out. cecil only faced napoli because of either personal history or gibbons' lack of faith in the rest of the bullpen. also didn't pan out, but they seemed like reasonable choices

i don't know enough about the jays' bullpen to speculate too much about gibbons' decisions, but even when he got two outs latroy hawkins was pretty obviously being squared up. that seemed like the most obvious issue unaddressed

Yeah, he wanted to have a righty-righty matchup and then bring in Cecil without having to burn another reliever. But who cares if you burn a reliever at that point? The bullpen is rested and that's exactly the situation when you want to play those matchups.

I thought Gibbons' bullpen management was okay. Napoli's hit was seeing-eye, then they shut Texas down for five-plus innings until they got to Hawkins with two outs (which did, again, include what I believe to be a botched call at second). I put the loss squarely on the hitters, particularly our 5-for-35 murderer's row.

I didn't get the quick-pitch stuff with Donaldson; that didn't make sense to me. I thought it was more a case of Kela saying something because Donaldson stayed in the box watching the ball instead of running. To me, though, he was simply seeing if the ball was going to be fair or foul--it was clearly out. Donaldson wasn't admiring it, he was just watching to see where it was going to land.

Again, I don't blame the loss on this, or on the strike zone the Jays' hitters are going on about. But just for the record:

http://i1059.photobucket.com/albums/t427/sayhey1/foot_zpssmlji9ot.jpg

I'm honestly not sure if that dull area between the foot and bag is dirt/cleat or a shaded corner of the bag.

At any rate, it's up to Estrada and Dicky now, but only so much as the bats need to get their job done. Not sure I can bear to watch us get eliminated so early.

The one TV replay seemed clearer than the photo. Anyway, history.

As sour as I sound, I haven't abandoned hope. With Cecil out, our best chance is probably to come out and put up 10 runs on the board each game in Texas. We can do that.

Looking at the replays and high res photos as objectively as possible, I can't see enough clear evidence to overturn the call.

I can't complain about our pitching so far. Two walks and fifteen strikeouts for the hitters in Game 2 is the problem. They're a high OBP team that doesn't strike out and in the first two games they've forgotten that.

Again, I don't blame the loss on this, or on the strike zone the Jays' hitters are going on about. But just for the record:

http://i1059.photobucket.com/albums/t427/sayhey1/foot_zpssmlji9ot.jpg

― clemenza, Saturday, October 10, 2015 9:10 AM (2 hours ago)

that dark spot under his foot is a shadow, not dirt. it's certainly possible that he was off the bag but the call on the field was safe, so to overturn it you would have to be certain that it was wrong

It probably falls into that grey area of not being conclusive enough to overturn. The one replay on TV, the very last one, did look conclusive to me.

Curious whether Tulowitzki will stay in the 5th spot. I know what Gibbons is thinking, because I've been thinking the same thing: the idea that as soon as he breaks out of this (very) prolonged slump, he'll start to hit like crazy. At least I was thinking that up until this last game. I told everyone beforehand that he would get the day's big hit, and three or four times yesterday I was convinced it was going to happen. But I think I've lost faith in him at this point, and would rather have Martin hitting fifth.

Agreed about Martin. I would rather Smoak hit behind him too.

@MLBRosterMoves
.@BlueJays add RHP Ryan Tepera to #postseason roster, replacing LHP Brett Cecil (torn left calf).

will be a good story when Jays win next 3

or clear the path for Cinderella Mets

Only two teams have ever won a best-of-5 series after losing opening two games at home: 2012 Giants vs. Reds and 2001 Yankees vs. A's.

If you worked for the Blue Jays, who would you start at 1st base, Chris Colabello or Justin Smoak? I would go with Colabello myself.
Asked by: Steve9753

Answered: 10/10/2015
Bill James: Colabello.

(I realize the Cubs-Cardinals game is on. Can't get it.)

If it's not clear from the post above, Cecil is out for the playoffs. Sounds like Buehrle was never really a consideration.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/bluejays/2015/10/10/blue-jays-brett-cecil-out-for-season-but-will-cheer-teammates-on.html

The Cecil thing really sucks.

That Texas writer I made fun of earlier in the thread is looking like a genius.

Lousy. We ain't winning 1-0.

Could have been a big inning.

loaded bases! this could be a big inning.

... and another blown shot at a big inning.

Gift-wrapped inning, one run--Jesus. (I missed the balk, but how can the umpire miss that?)

felt like a wasted opportunity again

ANOTHER double play?? Why was Pillar running on contact there?

What a nightmare.

On top of all the walks, the Rangers have kicked around three or four balls now. And we have two runs.

Okay. This is it. Need two runs.

What an at-bat by Encarnacion, and a rare bit of sharp analysis by Harold Reynolds explaining why.

are you kidding me.

Another DP ... inning blown ... and then unblown. TULO!!!

better now

how timely

I don't know that I've ever yelled so loud in my life.

awesome tulo story

Donaldson's having a terrific all-around game.

Not sure how much leeway they're going to give Estrada. I would guess two runners max.

Lowe's strikeout was a thing of beauty. Chirinos completely froze, and had this delayed reaction like "hmmm should I act like it was ball four and see if the ump will give me a call?", then he looked up and Lowe and Navarro were halfway back to the dugout.

Price warming up??

Why are they "committed" to bringing in Price, just because he's warmed up a little? Starters throw a bit between starts, no? Maybe this can just count as that.

I don't want Price in there. If it comes to it, and all evidence to the contrary, I want him starting game 5.

They're not committed these announcers are the worst.
Tho at least one of them is pronouncing Toronto correctly!

Three rockets hit off Osuna ... and three outs.

ONE!

Osuna didn't exactly overpower them, but, uh, okay!

That whole Price thing was bizarre--the announcers, I mean. Gibbons was getting him ready in case there was a key left-handed AB or two. That's all. Suddenly they had Stroman starting a potential game 5, which is ridiculous.

Tulo's HR is pantheon, but obviously Estrada's the player of the game.

I was driving home from the boonies listening on the radio most of the game (when I had reception); did Estrada look as good as it sounded?

Yes. He had hitters (especially Fielder) off-balance all night, started dropping in curves in the middle of the game, and I don't think he laid more than a half-dozen pitches right over the plate.

Estrada was great. The Rangers hit almost nothing hard off him.

Looked up Dickey's stats in Texas and they were terrible. But almost all of that was as a Ranger. He's had two pretty good starts there since coming to Toronto: 12 innings, 10 hits, 6 BB, 6 K, 4 runs. This'll be his first start there this year.

I would definitely settle for 6 innings and 2 runs today.

Adnan Virk, ESPN @adnanESPN
"Not a lot of people grew up playing baseball in Canada you're not used to catching a lot of balls in the stands." Harold Reynolds

keithlaw ‏@keithlaw 8h8 hours ago
First he should prove he can find Canada on a map.

what is gibbons doing with price, idgi

I guess I can't be too worked up, as Stroman looked better in game two.

ok, but do you still need to use price here with a six-run lead? also, why pull dickey one out shy of qualifying for the win?

I wonder how many innings he wants to get out of Price.

wait, so who's in line for the win if not dickey? nobody? or price?

"Get loose, Stroman."

wtf are the blue jays doing

price will get the win

it's like gibbons is painting himself into a corner so he can't be questioned for going with stroman in game 5

I was wondering is Stroman was actually his preferred game 5 arm.

@jay_jaffe
So Price allows 3 runs in 3 innings, something that no other Blue Jays reliever could have done given a 7-1 lead.

Meaningless Stat on tv right now: Jays 9-1 in last 10 road postseason games. Soooo... 2-0 this millenium, 7-1 in 1993? Or am I forgetting something/misunderstanding something obvious?

Incredible jump-start today--thrilling.

Count me as someone who's utterly baffled by the Price move. A couple of you guys point to the exactly the same theory my brother-in-law has: that Gibbons didn't have faith in Price for game 5, had already decided on Stroman, and this gives him some cover. Even if Price had pitched well, it still makes Stroman the game 5 starter.

I'm not sure I buy that--it sounds a little too clever, and I'm not sure if managers think that way--but it's more credible than anything I heard from Tabler or Wilner (whose one weakness, I think, is that he's a Gibbons apologist).

I don't hate pitcher wins as much as most people on this board, but if you ever wanted an extreme example of the win protocol at its most absurd, today's game was it.

I was floating that exact Stroman/Gibbons theory to a friend during the game!
If the jays win game five, the ALCS rotation could go: Estrada - Price - Stroman - Dickey (allowing Stroman to be our game 7 starter if necessary)

I can believe that Gibbons wants to ride the "hot hand" with Stroman (SSS alert) and ignore Price's entire career (not to mention his excellent two months as a Blue Jay minus one postseason start, which wasn't even all that bad TBH).

Then again I can't say it isn't the right move. It's not like Stroman is a ten year journeyman putting together a five start hot streak. He was the best Jays starter going into spring training and that may not have changed.

I can believe that Gibbons wants to ride the "hot hand" with Stroman (SSS alert) and ignore Price's entire career (not to mention his excellent two months as a Blue Jay minus one postseason start, which wasn't even all that bad TBH).

Pretty much exactly how I feel (even though I don't know what "SSS alert" means...).

I'll give Gibbons credit for one thing: doing what he wants to do and not worrying about criticism. If he were to go with Price in game 5 and Price loses, no one ever says anything--that's why Price was brought here. By going with Stroman, he opens himself up to a winter of hostile second-guessing.

Another weird theory: that one by-product of yesterday was that Price ended his post-season losing streak. The win was of course completely bogus, but maybe Gibbons felt that, going forward, it was important to Price psychologically that that was behind him. I don't actually believe that, but removing Dickey one out shy of the win was yet one more bizarre thing about yesterday's sequence of events.

Contrary to what Dickey says publically, I wonder how he really feels about yesterday. His manager essentially said that he didn't trust him to hold a six-run lead on a day when he was pitching very well.

also pulling dickey there -- at age not-quite-41, in his playoff debut, having pitched effectively, with a six-run lead -- meant that price was not just relieving for the first time in five years, but came in in the middle of an inning immediately throwing from the stretch

the win thing for Price is interesting. Dickey did not look happy about coming out when he did, but it seemed as if he was over it by the end of the game. hopefully he'll get another shot at a W in the ALCS! (fingers crossed)

price and kershaw have some big games coming up for their 'legacy'

I don't think Dickey could care less about getting a W. Gibbons had obviously decided that Price was the go-to guy for long relief or if Dickey got in trouble early so I'm sure he (Dickey) wasn't expecting to pitch deep into the game. Maybe this is Gibbons' way of keeping everybody relatively fresh for Game 5. Nobody really believes it when he says that Price won't be available to pitch tomorrow.

James got three questions on Pricegate today. (I know that's really corny, but it sounds significantly better than Dickeygate.) The first two were sorting out what happened; here's the third.

I think what Michael P is referring to is the question of whether Gibbons needed to take Dickey out when he did-with two outs, a runner on first, with a 6 run lead in the fifth inning. From my perspective, it seemed like Dickey could have gotten through at least that inning and possibly another inning or two without wasting Price. Another odd thing is that Price apparently had not pitched well against the Rangers previously and, in fact gave up three runs yesterday. I'm not sure what the rush was to put him in other than Gibbons basically said that if Price warmed up, he was coming in. I certainly understand why Gibbons would not want to play around with the lead and, obviously, the Jays had to use all hands on deck to win the game, but it did not seem necessary at that point. So Price certainly isn't available on Wednesday and, possibly not for Game 1 in the ALCS if the Jays win. I actually thought the same thing that Michael did-why is he taking Dickey out now?
Asked by: Marc Schneider

Answered: 10/13/2015
Yeah...it SEEMS odd from this perspective. It is possible that there was something going on that we don't know, but very often, when you get spectacularly unusual decisions like that, they occur because the manager (or other authority figure) has "thought through" the problem before the situation arises, and then is attempting to apply their a priori thinking to a situation where it doesn't really work. That was true in the 2003 game Game 7 ALCS when Grady Little left an obviously toasted Pedro Martinez on the mound to let the game get away. Grady had decided before the situation arose that "Pedro was our guy". Pedro was his horse, his #1 pitcher; when the game was on the line, he was going with Pedro. Good enough, but Pedro obviously had nothing, so it didn't work...We see this all the time in legal conflicts, that the judge is resolving the issue based on an a priori policy, but the previously determined policy doesn't anticipate the realities of the situation.

PECOTA odds for today: Jays 58%, KC 57%

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=27679

oh right! that baseball game i want to watch but can't because it's at like tea time.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CRSRdphWgAE-3b9.jpg

A+

cot damn talk about striking first

that was a mannafactured run

don't let goddamn Hamels win a clincher plz

followed by a manufactured non-run

Very close: at best, we got him, at worst, inconclusive. So I think it was correct not to overturn that.

That was a ball on Tulowitzki. It crossed the plate just below his knees. Except he was crouching--when he pops back up, it's clearly below his knees.

yea well-framed but low as hell

Big missed opportunity there.

Loup still isn't back with the team ... so no lefties in the pen except for Price (who is available today no matter what Gibbons has said to the press).

Cecil is feeling better?!?! And would be eligible to return to the roster if they make it to the WS??

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CRTi6nFUYAAugQ9.png

Nothing like getting squeezed on the pitch you throw after you were stopped mid-windup.

lol that collabello swing

What do you think--swinging for the fences?

59 pitches for cole thru 3, work him

Finally a relatively quick and efficient inning for Stroman.

I'm dying here. This is exactly the kind of game I didn't want--death by six or seven paper cuts.

great play by beltre wow

looks fab too live w that fox camera angle, props

Great play. I'm not sure if that's it or not for Stroman. He's pitched well. If the Jays lose, I won't even have the cathartic relief of blaming it all on Gibbons.

despite the ilbb fantasy team name this yr of man or m.stroman it literally only clicked to me that his name is that close to Astroman

Edwing

boom

a crowd fueled by the spirit and hatred of a thousand morbses shouting HAAAAAAMELS, HAAAAAAAMELS

MONSTER SHOT

This is where Gibbons needs to earn his salary. If he learned from his mistake in Game 2, that'll be it for Stroman.

Oh, this is weird.

Wow.

Wtf

what the shitfire

was at a meeting, what the fuck is happening

If we lose the series because of this ...

lol @ this

explain please i'm without cable

Return throw to pitcher hit batter Choo's hand, Odor advanced home.

(Hit Choo's hand and ricocheted away, which allowed Odor to advance.)

Sickening, because it does seem to be the right call.

crazy

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/bloodbrothersgame/images/6/69/Facepalm_Emoji.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20131118191429

@beckjason
Somebody threw a bottle or a cup from upper deck and hit a fan in lower deck near Rangers dugout in back of head. Yikes.

And the idiots throwing things aren't helping.

The call isn't reviewable ... and they're reviewing it?

It seemed like the right call though. Ugh.

Terrible rule.

jays gotta keep their cool as does the crowd, losing composure will only make it worse if the play stands (trust me i remember the '03 NLCS all too well)

If the game ends with this score, are the Rangers really going to feel as if they legitimately beat the Jays?

Harold Reynolds called it correctly immediately.

(xpost) Agree--it's one run, three more turns at bat.

If the game ends with this score, are the Rangers really going to feel as if they legitimately beat the Jays?

Why not ... Odor made a heads-up running play (shocking, I know).

Texas booting the ball all over the infield!!

I'm at a bar and. The place just nearly tore itself apart.

did it went between the legs of Martin?

More dropped baseballs, please.

THREE STRAIGHT ERRORS

Hamels still in the game? Don't you want to bring in someone fresh for the K?

rip elvis

If they overturn this one, I'll be furious.

(True: feel bad for Elvis, who I like.)

can hr stop woo-ing pls

We really needed Revere to get a run in there.

What was even being reviewed there?'

i like hr tonight, whatever. things are crazy, i'm with him.

pitch by pitch reviews to be implemented

LOOOL

Infield fly?

I actually feel bad for Rangers fans now.

Of course Donaldson had that terrible swing on a 2-0 pitch and did THAT.

Infield fly?

Nope, has to be catchable with ordinary effort ... he never got near the ball.

oh fuck lol

lool infield fly wouldve been amazing

crushed

oh shit lol wow yeah

holy shit

This is the most insane and beautiful inning I've ever seen in my life!

Nope, has to be catchable with ordinary effort ... he never got near the ball.

(Joke)

Unearned runs!

xxxxxxxposts

i hope they are wearing earplugs at rogers stadium

bautista is such a good hitter

insane how good he is

"This game has everything."

Jays fans make Phillies fans look like cards fans

Jesus what now

these ppl are out of their minds

I am watching without sound and it is killing me. If there's one game where I wanna hear the announcer...

a cubs/jays series would be wonderful, there'd be about 40 hr

there might be multiple deaths too

This inning has been going for literally about an hour.

More emotional than Carter's, I think. Or maybe I'm just older.

I've never seen a defensive implosion like that one.

Please, bullpen--close it out.

53 minute inning!

omg now what haha

Hahaha Dyson

Okay, NoTime--Sanchez/Osuna, or Osuna now? (Or someone else for the 8th?)

this pitcher is a clown

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CRUC-LEWUAEAWbY.jpg:large

Sad clown

xp

Jesus...crazy games tend not to end in the bottom of the 7th; they stay crazy.

Okay, NoTime--Sanchez/Osuna, or Osuna now? (Or someone else for the 8th?)

They want to get through the 8th with Sanchez, but he's up to 21 pitches already. One more baserunner and he's basically cooked.

Nobody available to face the lefties, to get a key strikeout ... so if there was a time to use Price (if that was the plan all along), this is it.

I'm very queasy about this, thinking about that 9th inning on Sunday.

Osuna to shut down the 8th. Then Lowe if he gets into trouble in the 9th

This is nuts.

Who relieves Osuna if he gets into trouble? I don't even want to think about it.

When did Josh Hamilton learn plate discipline?

left work, took a train to brooklyn, transferred to a different train, got out, went grocery shopping, walked home -- i missed seven outs

I missed more than that!

man osuna is ice cold

This is amazing. There are kids in my class watching who'd never watched a game until two weeks ago, and now they're baseball fans, maybe for life.

so wait, what was the last time a Toronto team won a series?

last time they were in the playoffs they won the world series, so this would be it

1993 was the last time we played a series.

i meant all sports!

Oh...I think the Raptors won a couple of first-rounders.

glad the kids are watching Clem, maybe the next Votto is 7 and watching and dreaming to become a player now.

the post season is the best way to turn anyone in a baseball fan.

leafs beat the senators about a hundred times, but even that's been a while

(xpost) Definitely. The tension of a close playoff game when you actually care about the result is unbearable.

I'm so wrapped up in this, I actually forgot it's taking place about a 15-minute drive away.

someone asked me if I wanted to buy tickets for game 5 tomorrow and Im kinda hesitant about it for this very thing

Correct result

lol at price carrying stroman

so Price starts game 1? genius!

all division series have been terrific so far.

Maybe Estrada in game 1 and Price in game 2?

Osuna's fastball looked hittable and there were some close calls, but I think he got all his K's on the slider? Dude was dealing.

What an unbelievable comeback from being down 2-0 in the series.

RA Dickey is doing a lap around the stadium shaking hands with fans.

I have to go and let it all sink in.

to the middle school to get some people pregnant

The Jays are back on the field and having a champagne celebration with the fans. As if the night couldn't be any more special.

I figured Estrada then Price and Stroman.

'grats ILB blue jays crew :]

just went back and watched the bottom of the seventh -- wow what a choke job by the rangers. i almost felt bad for hamels

https://twitter.com/Benn2Ns/status/654432041224810496

Still wired and watching some highlights ... there are all sorts of crazy things I'd already forgotten about, such as:

-- Pompey's questionable slide into home causing yet another long delay
-- a player getting ejected who wasn't even on the active roster (Cecil)
-- Revere somehow getting thrown out on Donaldson's run scoring fielders choice to the outfield
-- fans losing their minds and not even catching Bautista's HR ball

Apparently Buehrle was ejected at some point too, so that's two inactive players getting ejected.

Lots of credit goes to the umps for somehow keeping the game relatively civil and professional.

It was Beuhrle, not Cecil--he was in the dugout in the 8th or 9th and they corrected that.

Goins was a blank with the bat the whole series, but man he was great in the field tonight. Hoping he's ready to break out offensively.

Gotta single out that one play by Donaldson too (I think it was on DeShields, and there was a runner on). I thought it was a great play right away; seeing how the ball hopped and changed directions on the replay, it became an amazing play.

Really wish I stuck around the pub to watch the celebrations.

got to a bar just before The Throw! Lunacy.

f u Hamels

I still like Hamels!

you wouldn't if you were a Mets fan.

When Dyson patted Tulo on the ass i thought we were through the looking glass.

Did that seriously lead to the benches clearing for a second time? How did I not even catch that?!

they were in the process of cutting to commercial, i had to rewind it here

on reflection bautista's bat flip is one of the sickest things that has ever happened

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--4PVRxyhm--/1474221851389384998.gif

damn

dyson said something afterwards about bautista needing to respect the game more

shave yr clown beard and stfu, fool

that is an all time bat flip

didn't see the game. was there bad blood leading up to that?

After the game, Dyson was asked what was said on the field that brought both teams out to home plate as the inning ended.

"I told him Jose needs to calm that down," Dyson said. "Just kind of respect the game a little more."

Bat flipping has been a huge issue all season long, one that has led to batters being thrown at on several occasions.

That did not happen on Wednesday, but Dyson hopes Bautista gets his point.

"He's a huge role model for the younger generation that's coming up and playing this game," Dyson said. "He's doing stuff that kids do in Wiffle Ball games and backyard baseball.

"It shouldn't be done."

i think about seeing that bat flip on tv for the next 22 years and i kinda wish it was more joe carter-y.

there wasn't just bad blood, there was a near-riot by Canadians.

How did I not even catch that?!

So you've missed the neighborhood play and the assplay?

Near riot is pushing it a bit. It was nothing compared to, say, when ARod slapped at the ball during the bloody sock game. There were police on the field until the game ended in that one. Still, I'm not sure when exactly Blue Jays fans started turning into Phillies or Oakland Raiders fans.

I have never understood the mentality of throwing garbage onto the field though. I have no clue why anyone would want to do that. Getting drunk isn't an "excuse" either, nobody gets drunk in a bar and starts throwing full glasses of beer across the room.

The most amazing thing Bautista's HR is that I wasn't expecting it at all. It was the same with Carter's HR in '93 -- we'd just blown the lead, and I was hoping we could score in the 9th while at the same time dreading a Game 7 the next day. I was NOT thinking about the possibility of winning the WS during that at-bat, and it took a moment's hesitation until I realized what had happened. It was the same thing last night, we'd given up the lead, somehow tied the score without getting the ball out of the infield, but were about to blow a chance at yet another big inning. I was looking for a run while imagining how the game might play out if we didn't score (especially if we went on to lose), I definitely wasn't expecting or hoping for a HR. Then it happened and I basically lost my shit.

i recommend today's BP podcast where they draft moments from the inning

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=27690

“I didn’t say a word to him,” Dyson said. “I just tapped him on the butt. That was it. He just told me not to touch him. And then things kind of escalated from there.”

Bat flipping has been a huge issue all season long, one that has led to batters being thrown at on several occasions.

lol @ this sentence

if you ask me the only issue is there aren't enough of 'em

what's funny is that i used to do the bum pat to guys on the other team once in a while when i played ultimate, just to mess with them. as i share a name with said pitcher, i guess that behaviour maybe ingrained in my genetics!

>I'm not sure when exactly Blue Jays fans started turning into Phillies or Oakland Raiders fans.

i can pinpoint exactly when this happened. right after we got the TFC. i noticed a change instantly – all of the sudden there was a small subset of fans who had decided acting like soccer hooligans was a fun thing they should be doing at Jays games.
and i say this realizing it sounds like kind of an idiotic theory, but i'm convinced that's what it was.

also, as i have tickets for game 6 in the 500s – I *really* hope they don't turn that section dry again.

Obviously, I loved the bat flip and don't fault Bautista a bit. He's earned it--a guy that had been given up on, who was the resident star on a floundering team, etc. A pure, spontaneous, cathartic reaction, not directed at Dyson at all, I don't think. (Maybe a little.)

I don't blame Dyson for what he said about Bautista. Just words from a heartsick player, meaningless.

I do blame Dyson for his interactions with Encarnacion (how did he misunderstand Encarnacion's intentions? seemed clear as could be) and, especially, Tulowitzski (although I would like to know what he said to Tulowitzski).

The issue with the Martin play with everyone I've spoken to at work seems to be the umpire calling the play dead. I'm not sure what the rule book says about that. I've been saying that there was no way the Jays were going to make that play anyway, but maybe they need to take a look at how to handle a play that's ruled dead.

The umpire calling time/dead doesn't mean anything, really. Because in these series they want to get the rules right. Except for takeout slides.

OK, what's the TFC?

soccer club

kudos to harold reynolds, btw -- he knew right away that that ball was/should be live. i don't really expect him to know anything about canada, but he was right on top of that one.

and to rougie for taking home and forcing the issue.

Interesting theory about the TFC. Toronto fans were never known for being rowdy even when they had sellouts every night in the 80's and 90's, so it's not that you have more noise because there are more people.

My theory (purely speculation though) is that the Raptors and Leafs have sucked for so long and the city has been waiting impatiently for a winning team to rally behind. There was a silent majority of hardcore fans who weren't going to the games as often because the team wasn't going anywhere. As soon as the Jays became competitive those people came rushing back and swept half the city with them. This also explains why Jays fans have suddenly turned up in huge numbers at road games -- that *never* used to happen.

Exactly - look what's happened in Kansas City

Of north american major league sports events I've been to the MLS games have been the most gentile tbh

Dudes (and it will definitely have been dudes) throwing shit yesterday were probably single-digit years old last time the jays were in the playoffs, hard/futile to compare historic fan behaviour with current - different generation.

Pressure + Triumph = Exuberance.

http://mlb.nbcsports.com/2015/10/15/jose-bautista-does-not-need-to-calm-that-down-and-respect-the-game/

the most gentile

guilty lol

Lol autocorrect

I don't know, people throw shit on fields everywhere no? I remember it happened at Turner Field during the wild card game (2012) during the infield fly rule controversy. The TFC idea smells of 'ah... europeans' but it most certainly could be right.

was not blaming europeans at all there.

lindbergh with all cylinders firing on hilarious with an "oral history" of the 7th inning http://grantland.com/the-triangle/2015-mlb-playoffs-blue-jays-rangers-alds-game-5-seventh-inning-oral-history/

that is amazing.

More:

http://sportsworld.nbcsports.com/blue-jays-rangers-seventh-inning-jose-bautista-bat-flip-russell-martin-throw/?cid=eref%3Anbcnews%3Atext

A lot of writing will come out of last night.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OB-rdG4u_zU

lest we forget

I had forgotten about him--had to check, but ended his career with the Jays.

Angell:

http://www.newyorker.com/news/sporting-scene/wild-north

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sports/wp/2015/10/16/tom-lawless-not-ready-to-pass-bat-flip-title-to-jose-bautista

adrian beltre played the second half of the season with a torn thumb ligament

he hit .318/.376/.509 in the second half

i finally watched this and this post upthread resonated w/me:

The most amazing thing Bautista's HR is that I wasn't expecting it at all.

that is the incredible thing about home runs, they take all the multiple branching possibilities you've been toying with, eking out, working towards and just flip them all in the air, reset. that whole inning was such an epic ball-ache of niggles and misunderstandings and bases won 90 feet at a time in the ugliest fashion imaginable that bautista's HR came like a fucking cleansing rain. just amazing, what a roar from the crowd.

i watched this inning again, it ruled again

unbeliveable that andrus misplayed the ball 3 times in a row, just utterly mad

also had forgotten that bannister tapped two fans in blazers to get thrown out of the game after the bautista dinger! i never read any follow-up about who they were. they looked like well-connected assholes.

The one dude is, apparently, a senators husband and despite that quite respected for some other reason. Don't think he got kicked out either.

that bautista's HR came like a fucking cleansing rain. just amazing, what a roar from the crowd.

Yes, if they'd scratched out another run in that inning or later in the game, it would have gone down as a monumental choke job by the Rangers rather than a big win for the Jays, but Bautista's bomb validated the win in a way that wouldn't have been possible otherwise. The Rangers had their shot with the tying run at the plate in the eighth, and Osuna shut them down.

This game won't be any less legendary even with the ALCS loss.