Team allegiances - classic or 20th century?

Ned Colletti IS IN my city and it's it. It's magic, it's tragic, it's a loss, it's a win.

some of us have a familial history in rooting for LAUNDRY.

My team allegiance is really not a choice. I've tried to abandon the Padres and just be a "baseball fan" but I still find myself checking the box scores, moaning at every loss, feeling the cautious optimism every time they make a trade or inch toward the playoffs. It is irrational, parochial, and pathetic, but that's life.

Also, rockism is great. Fucka poptimist.

LAUNDRY

GMing a team to first place with a losing record is some sort of talent, I guess.

In fact, the only way I cheer up my ex-boss about Colletti is to remind him that at least he's not Sabean.

Sabean's pretty bad, but I think the Giants are in pretty good shape apart from the Zito deal. It's really their only bad contract (even if it is a doozy).

i was raised by laundry.

xpost

I will always love the A's, but if Ned Coletti was the GM I would love them less.

Polyphonic otm about it not being a choice.

lol u a mark-ass bitch 4 even askin this question imo

rootin for ur team is about pride in where u come from doggie, that's why fools who move to fukkin NYC or whatever and become Giants fans are the biggest marks in the damn world

that said there's nothing wrong with having secondary teams that u pull 4, they just can't supercede ur hometown luv. similarly there is a world of delights 2 be extracted from hating on other teams of any origin~

(New York Football) Giants i mean

not just about where u come from, about your relationship w/ ur dad (or ur moms) or other relatives

that Curtis Granderson blog post where he talks about what a trip it is going on the road and having the home team fans yell at him to do good but not too good because he's on their fantasy team.

Yeah, this is the equivalent of a stage diver thinking the show is all about him, post-Reagan American narcissism as the norm etc.

similarly there is a world of delights 2 be extracted from hating on other teams of any origin

-word

A friend of mine's two favorite teams are (1) the Mets and (2) whoever is playing the Yankees.

rootin for ur team is about pride in where u come from doggie

uh...
Cardinals and Braves are about 400 miles away
Royals, Astros, Rangers are all like 500 miles away.

http://www.olemissteamshop.com/olemiss/images/T/79-277-s.jpg

(1) Cubs and (2) Cardinals, I'm the same way. LaRussa's such a dork.

xpost

Wait, what? You're from Miss.? (xpost)

I think we've had this discussion like 2-3x Rock.

gygax luved his giants RIP

ok lol I think I just bought a vowel I'd like to solve the puzzle now

as an ostensible pirates fan, secondary teams are pretty much my fate. and i don't do fantasy baseball.

apart from the bucs sucking, i can't get too worked up about playing houston, milwaukee and cincinnati 100 times a year, either. bring back the phillies/mets rivalries of my faded youth. pittsburgh is not in the midwest.

i do enjoy following the yankees now, but only when they lose.

gygax luved his giants RIP

-- bnw, Tuesday, July 8, 2008 1:52 PM (21 minutes ago)

to be fair, gygax loved Bonds more than the Giants. i think i might have a picture from 1988 of young gygax! wearing a pittsburgh pirates cap!

Loving the Indians is part and parcel of the ongoing inferiority complex that is Being A Native Clevelander.

Steve Shasta's virtual home team

Chad Bradford
Paul Maholm
Roy Oswalt
Bob McCrory
Seth Smith
Matt Tolbert
Jonathan Van Every
Joey Gathright
Bill Hall
Fred Lewis
Dmitri Young
Marcus Thames

The thing that's great about baseball (ok all sports duh) is that you can have your team allegiance, but there's a lot more games going on every night, so a whole range of preferences and hates and man-crushes and voodoo curses can be exhibited. You can have the pleasures of grazing, uh, whenever your team isn't playing! This works especially well if the team you're tied to doesn't make the postseason.

That said: classic; how the sox have been doing is an absolute constant in every conversation I have with my mom.

The worst thing about being a Padres fan is that I don't know anyone else who is one.

I moved to San Diego around the time that they got sold and went from Brown and Yellow to the short lived Navy and Orange schematic. Never was a fan of the Qwurph.

I really need to get down there and check out Petco sometime. It looks gimmicky but is still a big upgrade on the Q.

I grew up on rotisserie, strat o matic and now fantasy. I have never had a home team. I think that 2/3rds of the teams in MLB are incredibly mismanaged. I have favorite players but zero attachment to any franchises (unless they are winning LOL).

truth slipped in with a LOL! how crowded is it on that Tampa Baywagon?

fwiw -

Oh great, you root for pixels. Congratulations on your first place pixels. :)

-- felicity

zactly: realize u r literally talking about rooting for FANTASY over REAL LIFE

very narcissistic way of looking at sports, takes away from the events as communal experiences + you are transferring the meaningfulness of the players actual results (helping their team win/lose) to yourself in a very silly way

-- deeznuts, Wednesday, July 9, 2008 3:53 PM (51 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

wait did i post that to thewrong thread or something?

-- deeznuts, Wednesday, July 9, 2008 3:55 PM (49 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

wrong thread and i think you are too simplistic.

-- Steve Shasta

oh - we're moving that?

if you can get over the silliness of cheering for a bunch of millionaires from the dominican/puerto rico/texas/b.c. playing for your "home team" against another likewise constructed team - then you can get over the silliness of fantasy baseball pretty quick.

-- The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall, Wednesday, July 9, 2008 4:48 PM

i guess what im saying is, sure its grown ups playing a kids game blah blah blah, but ive always felt fantasy teams detract from the experience of being a fan: lets both root for these guys becomes ok ill root for these guys but i hope that one guy on the other team does really good cuz he's on my fantasy team - I DONT GIVE A SHIT ABOUT YOUR FANTASY TEAM

nawmean?

How can you not LOVE Tampa? In their 10 years previous, they finished last in the AL East 9 times, the other time being 4th.

I've had season tickets for Giants (2 seasons) and A's (1 season) but I would never invest any money into those franchises for a very long time based on their management.

I love Rickey Henderson. Rickey played for the A's during FOUR DIFFERENT TENURES. How could that NOT be frustrating as a fan?

i'm a J's fan and i'm cheering for the Rays!

How can you not LOVE Tampa?

Totally agree, but mostly because I like a lot of those players.

i just hate the yankees.

I'm all for em if they keep NYY home for October.

xp

yeah im not saying you HAVE TO PICK A TEAM necessarily, or that theres anything wrong w/ 'objectively' enjoying a sport - im taking a more narrow tack in terms of fantasy leagues (football particularly) are some kinda bullshit

i realize thats not gonna be a popular opinion but i hope you guys can see how frustrating that shit can be to someone who doesnt partake

also what cursed return said - picking a team doesnt mean putting blinders on to cool stuff that happens outside of that team

I'm not sure I would know the identity of the backup catcher of every team in baseball if not for fantasy leagues though.

i think i might know the fringe catchers better than the top 10 at this point!

yeah and thats cool too, im trying to say what i mean more clearly because i think its an interesting & timely question - fantasy teams put the fan in control of things that are beyond their control (obv, thats why theyre fantasy) - but i think a lot of whats great about being a fan of sports is accepting subservience to the players, & sharing the grief & joy that comes with that with everyone else in the same position - fantasy leagues turn the fan into a competitor in a very closed circle

fantasy has done nothing if not enhance my love for baseball, expand my knowledge, and enjoy the game even more!

but yeah i have enough grief and joy in my life outside of pro sports, i just want to make some money off my friends.

the 'my team' vs 'my fantasy team' conundrum is a tricky moral balance but can be pulled off.

and fantasy adding to your perspective and knowledge beyond homerism is tru facts.

yeah nothing in fantasy baseball contradicts having a 'real' team too.

Caveat being a situation like mine (living in UK), where I've found it really difficult to follow mlb nearly as closely as I would in the states, so I've cut fantasy out, and now just daily follow the sox with shots here and there from bp, nytimes, ilbb, etc.

i think it does contradict in terms of the example i gave above, which im sure weve all experienced many times - if you have a fantasy team, you probably empathize w/ that person, but if not you just want them to stfu so i can enjoy the goddamn game

sounds like you've got some things go on tbh.

ha this has nothing to do w/ anyone in particular in my life, its just like, this is a big game so lets all just root root root

too purist i guess

"wwwwooo GO MANNY! GET A WALK - my obp is terrible! yAAYyyy!"

i realize thats not gonna be a popular opinion but i hope you guys can see how frustrating that shit can be to someone who doesnt partake

lol well that's ur fault nigga, start playin and mb u will lighten up a bit my mans~

i'm rooting for tampa, but i'd feel better about it if they didn't play in a dome and weren't, you know, from florida

i hope they knock around boston and nyy enough to force them from the playoffs and maybe the twins or tigers or white sox can sneak out the wildcard in the central

yeah cank i get that - and confession time i helped a dude out on his fantasy team last year & it ended miserably (beyond miserably really)

i just really dont like the tack that i gotta do this crap because everyone else is

nuthin but Hacking Mass for me, thx

if team allegiances are breaking down, perhaps it has more to do with the mobility of fans than the mobility of players. do baseball loyalties match de-rust-belting southwestward/floridian migration patterns?

i don't know if it's more because i spent part of the year growing up on another coast or because i'm innately allergic to doing something because everyone around me is doing it, but i've always approached allegiances as though choosing from menu options, at least from grade school when i was willing to risk getting beaten up because i wouldn't toe a yankee line.

no

though i'm sure that you are indeed a precious flower who chooses from menu options

:)

Part of rooting for a team is loyalty but part of it is just rooting for the proper unit of measure.

I think it's fine to change team allegiances all the time, but you have to absorb the transaction cost of resentment from the old-schoolers, same as anything else.

Fantasy baseball doesn't have that much to do with reality baseball. You're trying to find all the inefficiencies in the statistics and in the categories used in any given league. You're just trying to outperform your league. So it's like the GMs in MLB have a fantasy fantasy league.

There is some weird kind of non-quantitative fantasy baseball league that is based on something like PR points or Q index. You get points for your players for being mentioned in the news.

fucken lawyers, man

?

fantasy baseball has everything to do with reality baseball.

i think it just boils down to there being two kinds of people: passive and active.

It depends who you ask. I can see how that statement could be taken out of context but it's all relative.

I meant it in the sense that fantasy baseball is a bit of a red herring in the whole discussion of whether team allegiances are old-fashioned. They're not mutually exclusive.

^^^

Is this baseball rockism at it's basest?

No. The whole point of watching sports is that you care about who wins. I can sit back and enjoy two albums without caring about which one is more canonical or will sell more copies. It's hard to watch sports simply to watch a quality game being played without favouring one side or the other, even if it is for somewhat irrational reasons.

if the sport is unpretty, maybe. many tennis fans don't have this problem. i'm rooting for federer over nadal, for instance, but i'm rooting for great tennis over federer, which in a sense is enjoying the success, up to a point, of the guy i'm rooting against. yes, nationality has something to do with it (and maybe at least some people in more international cities are less likely to root for the local?), but i'm also rooting without reservation for tennis first in federer-sampras, say. i'd approach a yankees-red sox game in somewhat similar fashion, but to a lesser extent (because of the more probable time limit on the game?). i'm not sure how much that has to do with the game itself, though - while i think the yankees' infielding is v v pretty (maybe you can root differently depending on where the ball is hit?), it may have more to do with the fact that they're not my favorite team and i like some individual red sox at least as much as individual yankees (making steve's point to some extent? i'm still rooting for the other team, fwiw.).

that last Braves-Yankees World Series in 1999? I watched the first game then bagged it, realizing that I hated both teams so passionately I didn't give a shit. Only time it's happened since I was nine.

i think it just boils down to there being two kinds of people: passive and active.

Or, fans and control freaks! "Major League Baseball will become my own private Idaho."

^^yes. aka all 19 times sox/yanks play xp

But what are you a fan of Morbius? Just the laundry right?

Say Omar and Hank conduct an 80 player deal today, who are you rooting for tomorrow?

well, that's not happening. I do despise the Wilpons about as much as the Steinbrenners.

Mets' perpetual underdog status in NY is obviously part of why I wouldn't abandon them, unless I abandoned MLB. Eat the Rich, etc.

(yes, I'm aware of the irony in a team w/ Mets' payroll being an underdog, but I live in Gotham, not America)

i don't see what the rich have to do with it. even if the Mets have less than the Yankees, they've got alotta money, yes? (xp)

i suppose there are lots of people, including lots of rich people, who like the Yankees as a symbol of their city being better than yours. i suppose it's possible i'd feel that way too if i didn't like other cities too thought baseball had much to do with that.

Yankee fans = Inbred Sense of Entitlement (post-early '90s, when the Yankees sucked and Stadium was empty)

i guess what im saying is, sure its grown ups playing a kids game blah blah blah, but ive always felt fantasy teams detract from the experience of being a fan: lets both root for these guys becomes ok ill root for these guys but i hope that one guy on the other team does really good cuz he's on my fantasy team - I DONT GIVE A SHIT ABOUT YOUR FANTASY TEAM

nawmean?

completely

shasta you should read "the universal baseball association, henry j. waugh prop." sometime - it's brilliant book

You guys are pretty dense. I like REAL baseball, I probably go to more games than anyone on this board. I just don't feel a desire to align myself with any one team.

i would imagine having a fantasy team makes you a more well rounded in the know baseball fan

http://photos-f.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-snc1/v274/166/109/3700497/n3700497_31793205_5749.jpg

^^^joe blow^^^

Cute! Good work training JW to be a Mets fan, Morbius.

Shasta, as much as an outlier as you are, surely you can't pretend not to understand why people have team allegiances. Are you excited that Barry Bands might come back?

"Active versus passive" is open to interpretation. Do you think the live crowd is a factor? Home field advantage can't all be park adjustments.

i too am sick of hearing about fantasy baseball/football/basketball. i think it has def played a large part in creating this new breed of fan who is more interested in stats than anything else. it's like those sports nerds in school who were totally unathletic but could instantly tell you tony gwynn's avg for every year(and usu they loved Dungeons and Dragons, too) have multiplied and conquered the earth.

yes I know it is Barry Bonds

haha the very second after i posted that, dude at work comes up and asks me if i'd be interested in joining a fantasy football league

shasta i think youre being dense - im not questioning your passion for or interest in baseball, just pointing out why i like those simpleton team allegiances - i think its actually a richer experience emotionally + entertainmentingly

wow that looks like a really great book tracer xps

Granny, we'd rather know Pujols' VORP and WARP3 for every year.

Hey don't start picking on D&D. IL* is so not your audience.

I like the Sports Clix figurines (MLB Clix is a D&D-like baseball fantasy roleplaying game with paper and pencil) but only because they are cute to look at and really resemble the players.

I doubt I will ever have the attention span to ever play.

Legit question: Do you think the live crowd is a factor in the outcome of baseball games? Fan interference aside.

the way a lot of fantasy hedz watch games, the actual outcome is basically irrelevant. or relevant only insofar as it confirms or upsets your expectations of this particular matchup with these particular players - an amusing artifact but not the main story. whereas for me the outcome is like 90% of the thrill of sports. all the tension and emotion and strategy of the game has to do with the outcome

deez it is a great book - it's also very dark

felicity i think it's been proven that homefield advantage exists in baseball but is much smaller than in other sports

the actual crowd itself? probably a very very very tiny one xp

homefield advantage is far from crowd-based in baseball tho which is why its difficult to separate

like in basketball the crowd is tremendous factor but in baseball it can mostly be chalked up to other factors (stadium + team construction being a huge one)

i too am sick of hearing about fantasy baseball/football/basketball. i think it has def played a large part in creating this new breed of fan who is more interested in stats than anything else. it's like those sports nerds in school who were totally unathletic but could instantly tell you tony gwynn's avg for every year(and usu they loved Dungeons and Dragons, too) have multiplied and conquered the earth.

-- Granny Dainger, Thursday, July 10, 2008 4:41 PM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

lol, in what universe can you imagine yourself to be above D&D nerds? get real u damn fool-ass

the way a lot of fantasy hedz watch games, the actual outcome is basically irrelevant. or relevant only insofar as it confirms or upsets your expectations of this particular matchup with these particular players - an amusing artifact but not the main story. whereas for me the outcome is like 90% of the thrill of sports. all the tension and emotion and strategy of the game has to do with the outcome

you don't think it's possible for someone to both root for a couple of players on a team AND for an entire team in the same game (even if all of their fantasy players are on the other team)? because i think it's possible. VERY possible.

does that even make sense???^^

shasta you should read "the universal baseball association, henry j. waugh prop." sometime - it's brilliant book

-- Tracer Hand, Thursday, July 10, 2008 11:42 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Link

this is a dope book

its definitely possible & it happens its just kind of annoying for people to take something simple & communal & turn it into how much money theyre on the line for in their office pool or whatever

i dont hate on people for playing fantasy ball but thats kind of the downside of it from my perspective - it does make you a more 'well-rounded' fan, sure, but it also turns the game into something it isnt by definition

http://www.jumpingfrog.com/images/eph_bl06226/eph_bl0471.jpg

^^ dope book

http://bomplist.xnet2.com/0502/msg00132.html

Are you guys the same guys who use the first person plural when referring to the team that you root for?

lol: Referring to an athletic team you enjoy in the first person plural - Dud or...

how do you guys feel about sports betting??

i have been known to throw down 8 game parlays during various visits to the silver state.

I bet on sports in Vegas and in office pools. I don't find it very interesting to do online.

I like going to horse racing tracks once in a while but lately they are shooting too many of the athletes.

if im w/ friends i will bet small change on more or less random minor events that happen within a particular game because i think its fun/funny & creates a cool dynamic but i dont (yet) officially gamble, or know much abotu it, though i know a couple people who are pretty hardcore about it & its also annoying to watch games with them

i like the ponies!

I never gamble, because I hate throwing money away more than I enjoy acquiring it.

I basically hate the Rangers (because they've been badly run and owned by douchebags my entire life), but sometimes get sucked in - Hamilton's walk-off last night was nice.

Primary allegiance is to the Red Sox - Fenway, Manny, Pedro (RIP), Papi, in that order, when I started paying attention again. I'd give them up in a heartbeat if they tore down Fenway.

After that: A's (dad's from San Jose so I grew up rooting for all the Bay Area teams by default), Indians (they were the young/exciting underdogs when my fandom was peaking in the '90s)

NL teams: Giants if they were younger/better run

Hate: the fucking Yankees, teams from Pennsylvania

I don't do fantasy baseball and seriously doubt I ever will but figure I have pretty much no right poking any kind of fun since I devised dice games as a kid and have devoted 95% of whatever time I've spent on gaming with baseball games.

fucken lawyers, man

-- mookieproof, Thursday, July 10, 2008 1:22 AM (19 hours ago) Bookmark Link

?

-- felicity, Thursday, July 10, 2008 1:43 AM (18 hours ago) Bookmark Link

haha sorry. i was v. drunk and have absolutely no idea what i meant by this

ha hah haaa!

o man is steve shasta actually colin cowherd?

i think i might have a picture from 1988 of young gygax! wearing a pittsburgh pirates cap!

-- Steve Shasta

No one else found this creepy?

that last Braves-Yankees World Series in 1999? I watched the first game then bagged it

-- Dr Morbius

Spoken like a true collectorb.

In fact, the only way I cheer up my ex-boss about Colletti is to remind him that at least he's not Sabean.

-- felicity

f, why do you keep hurting me in my heart?

I don't even like baseball anymore, I'm only here on ILB nowadays to complain about Zito. Anyway, it's Giants are bust, so for the past 3 seasons, bust.

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u217/rieraci/pittsburgh/city%20sports/sid_bream_autograph.jpg

definitely creepy

so that's gygax!?

http://www.strapya-world.com/images/medium/375-SUSHI-TAI_MED.jpg

You know, I might as well park my wagon with the Cubs for the forseeable. Plus, I used to be a Chicagoan. Does Sandberg still hit second?

-- Leee, Tuesday, April 22, 2008 2:49 PM (2 months ago) Bookmark Link

Leee, I thought you were becoming a Cubs fan this season. Enjoy the ride!

Yes, I think I will now.

I am casting my net wide and rooting for the following teams this second-half: Diamondbacks over Dodgers, Brewers and Cubs over Saint Louis, Mets over Phillies etc., Athletics over Angels, Twins over White Sox, Rays and Sox over the Yanquis. All in all, I'm rooting for an A's or Rays v. Mets World Series.