2019 World Series -- Houston Astros vs Washington Nationals

I've actually switched allegiance: rooting for the Nationals.

it's not their fault Brett Kavanaugh and other awful people are fans

Nats in 6

this is the nats/expos franchise's first WS appearance right?

Astros in 4

Nats in 6

538 has it 60/40 Astros; the one betting site I found has it Houston -220/Nationals +180, which if you split the difference means 2/1 Astros.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

stros before politicos

I Fuckin hate the Astors so DC in 6

no idea who will win, but it seems like the astros' consistent bats and the nats' bullpen issues could give the astros the edge. rooting for the nationals though.

I know Scherzer is only about 90% right now--although he was awesome last time out--but Scherzer-Cole has to rank with the best WS match-ups ever, at least at the seasonal level. (Which match-ups invariably disappoint.)

He’s a Negro Leaguer. You should really read this. @nlbmprez https://t.co/Oq99Bcn0vW

— Richard M. Nixon (@dick_nixon) October 20, 2019

Nat's bullpen is not quite the dumpster fire it was the previous two seasons, but it is still not that good.

Houston is about as all around talented as any championship level team that has been around in the past 20-25 years. Got to win the big ones though to make it stick.

i think nats are a legit live underdog this series, if i had to id says houston in 7

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

You're all ignoring destiny and character and clutch-hitting.

And the Ewing Theory--you're ignoring that.

Brandon Taubman making it hard to root for the astros

also, Texas

they got their one trophy

Didn't vote but hoping it goes to game 7.

The #WorldSeries Game 1 & 2 starters combined for 1,118!!! strikeouts this year.

Cole 326
Verlander 300
Strasburg 251
Scherzer 243

— Daren Willman (@darenw) October 22, 2019

How about supporting women reporters by believing them? pic.twitter.com/4wLmm1yzq2

— Miranda Leigh (@mirandale1gh) October 22, 2019

The thing I can't stop thinking about with Brandon Taubman is that he's the big-data guy on baseball's most data-driven team, someone who has every reason to think of a player being accused of abuse as an active plus because it makes him a more valuable asset.

— Tim Marchman (@timmarchman) October 22, 2019

good take

sexual assault is the new OBP for sick fux

or physical assault, i guess

Love Greinke, Springer and Altuve with all my heart and I have Houston roots but also love Strasburg and Scherzer with all my heart so go for Scherzer and Stras they haven’t won it all and so didn’t Washington since the 17th century so I’m pulling for the Nats.

I really like those three guys too, it's hard not to.

Bregman is enough asshole for the whole team though. I hope he twists his ankle on a series-ending error. Go Nats!

whatever, dickheads

The Astros have released the following statements from assistant GM Brandon Taubman and owner Jim Crane pic.twitter.com/LWx2iCEBcC

— Kyle Glaser (@KyleAGlaser) October 22, 2019

Jack Morris Clubhouse Neanderthal Award winner

@davidfolkenflik
NEWS: Astros assistant GM Brandon Taubman was targeting a female reporter wearing a purple bracelet on domestic violence.

She has tweeted frequently on DV; he complained about her tweets offering info on DV hotlines when Roberto Osuna appeared in Astros games in 2018.

"Yes, yes, I know this particular bunt-sacrifice attempt didn't work, but --"

I don’t think I’ve seen Rendon and Soto get overmatched like that all season. Wow.

— Jamal Collier (@JamalCollier) October 23, 2019

I think Brantley won't be bunting here.

u can call him Zimmy

Nearly 50 pitches for Scherzer through two innings, the Nats are going to need 3-4 innings from their bullpen.

I have radio-TV feeds perfectly synced and am unnaturally happy about it

Bregman and Alvarez must be about 1-50 between them.

Ha! Did exactly the same thing at a school tournament a few years ago--wrote about somewhere on ILB. (I got called and it cost us the winning run.)

Exactly my point at the time--my contact was minimal and not intentional.

should let the coach tackle him imho

should be reviewable!

unless Scherzer goes 8, I think we see Corbin tonight

and I doubt he's going past 5 now

I don’t think I’ve seen Rendon and Soto get overmatched like that all season. Wow.
— Jamal Collier (@JamalCollier) October 23, 2019

― Andy K, Tuesday, October 22, 2019 5:18 PM (one hour ago)

Wow...

lol

Unreal piece of hitting by Soto to take that pitch to the opposite field.

Corbin warming up!

Five innings so Scherzer can get the curly w

that's no factor in the WS

it's just when the pitches ran out

Wasn't saying it was a factor for crying out loud

sorry. irony still fails on the interwebz!

I don't think that the Nats can win the WS by using only 4-5 multitasking pitchers like the 2001 Diamondbacks but it'll be fun watching them try.

their bullpen has yet to cost em a game, feels like they're due

looong road til Doolittle

dunno if you just wanna be cranking fastballs down the middle here

Hudson's the guy they traded for

Juan Soto seems like a big deal.

Got home from work what did I miss

whoa I don't think I've ever seen anyone tag up from first

daaamn that was in his glove

Doolittle is very good

If the Nationals had blown that, I wouldn't have been surprised by a Houston sweep. But they're in good shape now.

Crazy win. The Astros had better start hitting with RISP. They had their chances.

silly to get down on Springer given how godly he's been but man that double could've easily been a triple had he not spent 4-5 seconds watching it and he would've tied up the game on the next fly ball

Tucker was tagging (also a questionable play) so there was definite traffic on the paths.

had he not spent 4-5 seconds watching it and he would've tied up the game on the next fly ball

the ball was nearly caught!

also fallacy of the predetermined sac fly

Holy cow.

maybe Mike Minor could do better against these guys...

The fact that Washington was at +180 is nuts, Stras is the best pitcher in this series and Verlander might be gassed

JV did well not to let another run score, but again, about the best he can do is keep his team afloat.

That was a surprise. I believe conventional wisdom says the second out of an inning at third is okay--worth the risk.

srsly what the hell

not in a lineup like this xp

This is beautiful

These pitchers suck.

They're not hitting at all, though. Didn't work, and it of course looks bad when the next two guys get a hit, but I didn't think it was a bad move.

you have to assume they're *gonna* hit or they're sunk

PFP

apt to see some offense when the pens get in

Corbin again tonight?

Bizarre IBB right there. Alvarez has been striking out all postseason, and there's only one out!

jfc Stras walks a good tightrope

KURT

Good game. Want the Nationals.

next couple of at bats feel like they could determine the whole series

lol Bregman you dick

First IBB issued by the Astros this season!

Yes

when I used to fantasize about playing in the Major Leagues that was exactly my nightmare

Love watching this outcome

asdrubal is clutch

Even better

fuck it I'm heading over to the Astros subreddit

lmaoo

Hahaha

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Bregman literally costing his team 5 runs

And that's why the IBB is often a bad idea. Strange that they'd change their stance on a dime in the frickin World Series.

This is one of ugliest innings I've ever seen.

I really thought the Astros were the better team. This is crazy

lmao being the "better team" in baseball doesn't mean a whole lot

I guess I can finish watching this Red Skelton movie.

Last team to lose the first 2 at home and win the WS?

Yanks did in '96, I think they were the last ones?

like yeah the Nats have been pretty impressive basically from June onward but really the "secret" has been activating godmode every time you have 2 outs and a man on

lmao being the "better team" in baseball doesn't mean a whole lot

― frogbs,

I'm a Giants fan, believe me I know.

I'm a Brewers fan, it's what gives me hope

Bregman is enough asshole for the whole team though. I hope he twists his ankle on a series-ending error. Go Nats!

― The Ravishing of ROFL Stein (Hadrian VIII), Tuesday, October 22, 2019 2:38 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

halfway there

Yanks did in '96, I think they were the last ones?

― NoTimeBeforeTime, Wednesday, October 23, 2019 11:10 PM (three minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

graeme lloyd aint walking thru that clubhouse door for houston

yes, NTBT:

'85 KC
'86 NYM
'96 NYY

that's all of em

man if you told me Fernando Rodney was gonna pitch in this game I would've assumed the Nats were getting massacred

I thought the IBB to Soto was the right call. I'd have to see it again, but I thought Kendricks' ground ball should have been turned into an out (I think he got credited with a hit).

Back from work, tuned in, what the fuck happened.

Also I wish I could run like Robles.

Jesus is this Giants Tigers 2012

These celebrations are WS-worthy.

Jesus is this Giants Tigers 2012

― Van Horn Street

It feels like it. Verlander game 1 and Scherzer pitched in game 4. Giants swept.

All of Houston Tonight:

https://frinkiac.com/video/S06E15/MhVhlYv5y6gLG6vUEJWXuqAq8f0=.gif

Maldonado with the clutch HR, I was laughing by the end my poor Astros

verlander now 0-5, ERA just under 6 in six world series starts

I thought the IBB to Soto was the right call

I just find it weird that the Astros had a strategy that they steadfastly committed to all season, only to change their minds in the most important game of the season.

Isn't that the way with postseason, though? You improvise according to the situation, and do things (obviously, bullpen-use especially) you wouldn't normally do. Soto's killing them, Kendricks is hitless. I still haven't looked at the play again, but I thought Houston more or less got what they wanted from Kendricks.

singular Kendrick

like George Hendrick

Teams might improvise new roles for players (especially pitchers), but not new strategies.

I always get Howie and Jimi Hendrick confused...I think we'll just have to let that one drop, NTBT.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/10/18/who-should-throw-ceremonial-first-pitches-nats-world-series-games/

I love the idea of José Andrés throwing out a first pitch but I doubt that one will happen. Chad Cordero to Brian Schneider tomorrow night.

Just announced: The Astros have fired assistant GM Brandon Taubman and apologized to Stephanie Apstein of https://t.co/u9r82n3M5N.

— Ken Rosenthal (@Ken_Rosenthal) October 24, 2019

thoughts and prayers

nats need to sweep these chumps a.s.a.p

always good to do the right thing when the other options have been tried

President Trump said Thursday that he plans to attend Game 5 of the World Series at Nationals Park on Sunday if the Washington Nationals and Houston Astros are still playing, though he did not confirm if he had been asked to throw out the ceremonial first pitch.

“I don’t know. They’ve got to dress me up in a lot of heavy armor — I’ll look too heavy,” he responded when a reporter asked him about whether he would take the mound. He appeared to be making a reference to a bullet proof vest that presidents sometimes are required to wear by Secret Service when they are amid large crowds.

Trump’s attendance at the 41,000-seat stadium in Southeast would mark a rare time he has ventured into the District’s entertainment and nightlife scene, other than his occasional visits to the Trump hotel a few blocks from the White House. It could also mean increased security restrictions at the ballpark for what is expected to be a standing-room-only crowd.

I have to believe the Astros would be happy to cut ties with Osuna, too--he's far from irreplaceable, if you ask me. He's not a free agent till 2022, so I guess they'd have to trade him.

I definitely hope Trump throws out the first pitch. The booing would be deafening, and I bet he throws the most perfect strike ever five feet wide and ten feet too high.

Or, more realistically, one that bounces a third of the way to the plate.

Astros GM Jeff Luhnow was asked whether he had personally reached out to @stephapstein to apologize.
Luhnow said he’s been busy and hasn’t had the time.

Stephanie was sitting in the room.

— Hazel Mae (@thehazelmae) October 24, 2019

what a horseshit organization

and not least because they've made me earnestly root for a dc team

same

it appears they haven't solved this

I love the idea of José Andrés throwing out a first pitch but I doubt that one will happen.

hahahaaaaa, he's throwing out 1st pitch Sunday, the game Trump is going to.

allegedly

will prob stay home w/ 2 bags of Doritos if there is a game

i def would love to cheer for the Nats but, not unlike the braves where i do an about face every time i see them doing the chop, i will instantly go back to loathing them the second i see some corrupt war criminal mother fucker clapping and having a grand old time cheering for them. i may be able to subdue these feelings if they can restrain themselves some having any of the worst that city has to offer throwing out the first pitch or being involved at all in any official capacity.

u can probly find a corrupt war criminal rooting for most teams south of Toronto

José Andrés will be throwing out the first pitch for game five (if it happens). I am back in the fold.

Stephanie Apstein met with Jeff Luhnow in the dugout just now. She asked for a retraction to the team’s first statement suggesting she fabricated her story. He didn’t commit to issuing one.

— Ben Strauss (@benjstrauss) October 25, 2019

btw pre-Astros, Taubman was a "derivatives valuation expert."

#Bernie2020

Fangraphs has a Nats title at 64.5% which sounds right.

Is Alvarez in the lineup?

The anthem singer’s name is D.C. Washington. What are the odds?

Need a Game 6 for Thelma Houston.

Alvarez sits

Fantastic catch, especially on replay.

put a circle around that one

thought 2-2 pitch was indeed low

kinda rooting for HOU til Greinke exits

like Chris Singleton on the radio, I think the Astros expected something more than a simple sacrifice out of that Greinke bunt. what did Buck & Suck say?

Tomorrow I guess it’ll be, “Look, can we even be sure Stephanie Apstein exists? One can never truly be sure of anythjng.”

— Joe Sheehan (@joe_sheehan) October 25, 2019

I would rather know a player’s horoscope than his BvP numbers.

— Joe Sheehan (@joe_sheehan) October 26, 2019

man, Soto in the corner looked like Dave Kingman

tbf he's old now

i'm glad Buzz Aldrin didn't break a hip falling off the mound

Battle of the suckas is what this shit is

so you say whilst mixing weak drinks

Normally I'd be happy for a sweep but I want game 5 to happen...

1:22 to play the first three bcz of course

WmC i'm betting Orange Shithead aint showing up for G5

A quick follow-up on this: Max Scherzer, Justin Verlander, and Aníbal Sánchez all pitched in the World Series *on the same team.* The 2012 Detroit Tigers

Those Tigers are the 2nd team since 1921 to have 3 pitchers all go on to start WS games in the same year for different teams https://t.co/soTt6W0LQC

— Baseball Reference (@baseball_ref) October 26, 2019

"How about that?!"

That wasn't a strike.

WmC i'm betting Orange Shithead aint showing up for G5

― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius),

I agree. I want him to get the clowning he'll deserve when he bails out.

Reddick played that carom amazingly

like Leo DiCaprio, Soto disappointing as an adult thus far

playing some chin music tonight

cone catch!

looks like we could have a Series

Another mediocre postseason outing from Greinke.

Can't believe that the Nats are throwing in the towel with Rodney already.

Altuve shoulda taken the HBP

what are the LOB totals so far?

The Astros blew yet another shot at a big inning.

xpost

LOB: Astros 9, Nats 8

that feels like the actual score

we're goin til at least 12:30 ET, baby

we couldn't see a replay of Turner fouling it off his basket cuz a few kids on the West Coast are still awake

Oooooh. That’s what happened! I came back in the room to see a bunch of writhing and deep breathing!

Not a pretty game, but at least we have a series!

The espn.com boxscore doesn't seem to have time of game. What was it, and was it a 9-inning WS record?

Congrats to all involved with this particular slog of a game https://t.co/tuZJp9Lri7

— Jay Jaffe (@jay_jaffe) October 26, 2019

Game was 4:03

it felt at least three times longer

game time is on the mlb dot com boxes; not sure why espn doesn't have them

Houston hitting Corbin well.

congrats to Urquidy for surviving his PA

Urquidyng me

still well before midnight, but the Nats' Cinderella outfit is starting to fray a bit

Chirinos making a bid for Buddy Biancalana-level WS fame

It’s dat Urquidy

You are the Breg Man, yeah

fulcrum of the game here

Aaah Soto was so close to blast it.

A grand slam would have made this officially the Postseason of Soto, but it wasn't to be.

Why play with fire with Rodney here?

Lololol Rodney

The legend of Rodney grows.

What year is this?

it is the Year Zero

I mean at this point the Nats better play the lesser part of their bp to prepare for game 5.

fuck this

Silly rules question: Tucker came in as a PH to lead off and is now batting again, does that count as two PH at-bats?

I assume it should not, but as of now, he is hitting in the pitcher's spot and doesn't have a defensive position (I think...)

If a player acts as a pinch hitter and his team bats around in the inning, he may come to the plate a second time. The second (and subsequent) times he bats in the inning are not considered pinch-hitting appearances.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/Pinch_hitter

Wonder how they tabulate that in his splits.

Fangraphs: 64.9% Astros trophy

Says 61-39 by ZiPS and would have been 81-19 Nats if they'd won Game 4.

Scherzer's been pulled for tonight because of back spasms. Bad, bad news.

shit

that'll prolly do it

I guess the other way to look at it is--if this is just a one-day thing--they can come back with Strasburg/Scherzer for Games 6 and 7.

maybe but going back to Houston down a game ain't good

really didn't need to see that guy

Nats bats need to wake up.

And now the crowd is chanting "Lock him up!" after Donald Trump was shown. This is not for Anthony Rendon, who they have frequently shouted that for this season. It's for the President.

— Jesse Dougherty (@dougherty_jesse) October 28, 2019

i'm calling it: road team is winning all 7 games

That would be a premiere right?

if you mean unprecedented, I believe so

I have a hard time believing the Nats can win two without Max at 100%.

it's baseball, dude

Morbs I’m looking for reassurance here.

Sheesh that call

The ball four pitch to Zimmerman was closer to the plate than the called strike three on Robles.

Maybe Nats fans will do "Lock him up" again when Osuna comes out

welp

Jfc

all I wanted was to not get swept. I guess i win at shitty expectations

Trump getting booed and making sadface is like the cherry on top

It was very heart warming.

I still think there will be 2 more games, u Gloomy Guses, one a 2-HR Soto game

Probably just my disappointment with the Nationals, but it feels like a lousy Series. Max coming back to win Game 7 would be a great storyline.

well the games haven't been close, mostly

Game 1 was close, Game 2 was close until the late innings, but neither was a classic or anything.

A Game 7 would be fun, but the Nats look done to me. Their bullpen has gone back to sucking and I have a feeling that in Game 6, we're in for a rerun of the Matt Harvey Game (WS 2005, Game 5), where Martinez rides Strasburg for an inning too many to avoid letting his bullpen blow the game, only for everything to blow up in his face regardless.

that could happen, certainly

but other things could happen

^^^^Listen to the good Doctor.

Nobody would have predicted that Houston would be down 2-0 (<4% probability) going to DC.

this might be the trauma talking but I do not see this going to a game 7

wait no way did the Nats only have a 4% shot at winning two in Houston. it's not like basketball playoff series where you can wear down players or solve an offense, anyone can beat anyone in the playoffs

Game 6 you have Strasburg (who is IMO the best pitcher in the series) vs. Verlander, who is obviously very good but also possibly kinda gassed? idk I still think the Nats have a better shot than everyone is saying. that said watching their offense be absolutely anemic through 3 home games is probably skewing everyone's expectations

momentum = the next game's pitcher(s)

undefeated in their blue unis

I agree, four percent? That would mean only a 20% shot at winning each individual game.

Reasons #1, 2, and 5 are pretty good reasons, I'd say.

https://www.mlb.com/news/nationals-reasons-2019-world-series-hope

It's all guesswork, especially because nobody knows what's going to happen with Scherzer. They could still win without Scherzer too!

Looking at the five games as a whole, Houston has clearly been the better team, I'd say. But it doesn't mean they won't lose two games in a row ...

Max Scherzer just threw in outfield. Told reporters afterward, “I’m good.”

— Ken Rosenthal (@Ken_Rosenthal) October 29, 2019

lack of drama

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/why-has-the-world-series-felt-boring/

They had two great stories going in--imposing Goliath vs. insanely hot David, plus the six marquee starters--and while both stories have sort of played out (we've seen both sides of the first story, and some of the starters have been intermittently great), the whole thing hasn't clicked. Lack of lead changes certainly explains a lot.

stay winless, JV

That was a fun first inning.

Bregman is an asshole, I hadn't realized

hope he gets one in the ribs midgame

No one, especially not MLB sites, should use the verb "clinch" for winning the WS. No one "clinches" the WS, they win it

Rendon is incredible.

and will get an incredible contract (Dodgers they say)

I thought a blowout was imminent when Guriel launched that one in the first inning. The Nationals are hanging on.

I vote Rendon as the coolest looking player in the game.

badass batting stance for sure

terrible beard

Fox w/ shitty direction for a big-budget op

the youtube logo ugh

Verlander has been walking a tightrope act, mostly because of the walks, but then again the Nats haven't been hitting the ball hard.

Strauss looked really rough there until he finally got that strike over on Correa. They both might be a little gassed.

haaaa eat it Verlander

Drama!

well there's the lead change we've been waiting for

will bat carry be the new bat flip?

So much for the Nats not hitting the ball hard.

I’m ok with this devolving into a showboating hr derby.
Let he whom carries the most bats the furthest take the day!

Oh Tim Bogar is no doubt enraged by Soto’s behavior, John Smoltz! Can you imagine?!

this is the great game this series deserves

Whew...makes me sad to root against Altuve.

Three more hard hit balls, no runs.

we'll see if that half-inning is a turning point

Home teams are now 4-for-41 with runners in scoring position in the World Series.

— Joe Sheehan (@joe_sheehan) October 30, 2019

Stras lookin good for one more

lit joke time

Record for home runs by a center fielder in a single World Series:
1) George Springer, 5, 2017
T2) Lenny Dykstra, 4, 1993

Tell me about the rabbits.

— Michael Baumann (@MichaelBaumann) October 30, 2019

Close to 100% opposed to putting Scherzer out there tonight (maybe possibly for one batter--that's it).

jfc terrible call

ESPN radio team suggests that Scherzer may have suggested a relief role rather than the G7 start (cover story).

anyway Turner was ON the goddamn bag when ball hit him.

I guess that ump is on the HOU payroll.

Turner losing his fucking mind right now. Dumb fucking cal imho. Way to make this game about the umpiring.

such a play is sposed to be nonreviewable, but they should do the right thing

This is the longest replay review ever.

I'm glad they are looking at it. Too important

The bag is in fair territory. What else can Turner do? The throw was late and inside. I’d say safe.

— Jon Heyman (@JonHeyman) October 30, 2019

I guess I see why he was called out. Not as egregious as I first thought. Still not sure it was the right call...

I think it was the right call, unfortunately. Turner wasn't in the running lane at all; Guriel had no chance to catch it.

But who cares now!

lol the immediate cut to Turner

FUCK YEAHHHHHHHHHHH

Ha ha good on Rendon for putting this away. If the Astros eeked out two runs, we’d be hearing about this call forever.

“Putting this away”= making something of the inning.

I will say many bad words if Scherzer's out there on the mound.

The baseball gods made it right

Scherzer gambit aborted I think

Martinez has to control his emotions there. Can't lose it like that.

Can't believe how livid Martinez was mid-inning in light of the HR.

the specifics of the discussion might've inflamed him

I was worried he was going to choke slam the ump he was being so aggressive.

Xpost - you mean him not being able to play under protest?

(Apparently)

The answer to every ejection trivia question is Bobby Cox. https://t.co/TsRqNdYPMH

— Joe Posnanski (@JPosnanski) October 30, 2019

Joe Torre was on the field conferring with an umpire in his executive capacity

Turner wasn't in the running lane at all; Guriel had no chance to catch it.

Hmmmm? Turner played no factor in the noncatch that I saw; Gurriel missed it before it hit Turner.

More Strasburg!

This would be his Matt Harvey moment, if it's happening.

wtf my stream froze and he's out of the 8th already? damn

as Dan Shulman points out, the running lane is a bad rule anyway

that was a quick 8th!

I guess not (unless he's back for the ninth, which could happen).

xposts

No one will agree, but I'd give him one baserunner. He's not pitching tomorrow, he's at 101 pitches, he's a free agent anyway, let him go out.

Bad rules are still rules.

I will agree

I have no idea how he does after that many pitches but yeah I'd let him go until someone gets on

Stras has been looking better and better as this game goes on.

Devenski pitching the ninth means that Hinch is already trying to save his best guys for Game 7.

He's got Gurriel, Alvarez, Correa

I didn’t even think he’d pull off four, the way he started the game.

Looks like Strasburg was headed to the showers?

as a Mets fan, i'm glad they didn't call it on JC Martin in '69

xp: maybe he had to take a leak, looks like he's back in the dugout.

Only 5 pitches in the 8th, they said.

weeeew

and we will see you to-morrow night

(I think)

That's what happens when you let the seventh best guy in the bullpen pitch the ninth in a close game.

Two more two out runs for the Nats!

Wow great game

Please don't needlessly burn a pitcher with a 5-run lead.

Good move

No

Utterly ridiculous.

Ben Clemens
11:37 Greinke looks like he just found out the World Series was going on and had to get out of bed to watch.

why

104 and no one on. They should have let him go

That was possibly/probably Strasburg's last game with the Nationals. I know all about Matt Harvey...Does this sport have even an ounce of poetry left in it?

Doolittle's pitched two innings since October 15th.

I almost want the Astros to come back.

Back from work, happy I have no shoots tomorrow.

I don't really get it either

I am pretty certain Stras is back with the Nats next season.

I also don't necessarily equate complete games with poetry

Wish the Astros had shown up tonight.

Doolittle hasn’t pitched in 4 days I think, I think that’s why.

Looked out live

(xpost) I have no answer for that. You either understand what I mean or you don't.

the Astros did show up, or at least Bregman tried to show up Strasburg yuk yuk

The flip side of the Devenski sighting -- why bring in Doolittle, who's probably their best reliever, with a five run lead?

My bad Doolittle was used Sunday.

Cuz he's barely pitched

Maybe since he was already warmed up?

Fuck yes

My two favorite pitchers dueling for game 7 of the world series I can’t even.

apparently first ever series in any major sport where the road team wins 6 in a row

Verlander loses again

Reason #5 from the SI link above: Baseball is very strange!

If the Nationals manage to win, should be a good Strasburg/Rendon MVP debate.

ho man, Strasburg "butterflied" his glove in setting up after the first cuz they were reading his pitches, he just said

yeah... HOU always studying pitch tipping.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpxkTbNbG-w

538's odds for tomorrow: Houston 52%, Washington 48%.

Martinez says he didn't like it when Bregman carried the bat to first, nor--surprise--did he like it when Soto did the same. He says he'll have a talk with Soto.

That’s as bad as it gets. Rewarding a bad stretch and a bad throw.

— Josh Donaldson (@BringerOfRain20) October 30, 2019

Scherzer announced as the SP for Game 7. I have no clue how he can pitch after not being able to dress himself two days ago, that must have been one hell of a cortisone shot. Still, 70% of Scherzer is better than anyone else the Nats could put out there.

Juan Soto on MLB Network, on mimicking Alex Bregman's bat drop: "I just told it to myself, as soon as I saw that, what Bregman did in the first inning, I was like 'that was pretty cool, I want to do that!'"

— Blake Finney (@FinneyBlake) October 30, 2019

Martinez says he didn't like it when Bregman carried the bat to first, nor--surprise--did he like it when Soto did the same. He says he'll have a talk with Soto.

Here's that talk:

"If you hit a homer in Game 7, you can do whatever the fuck you want."
"Cool."

Torre said Turner was called out because he interfered with Gurriel trying to catch the ball by running into Gurriel's glove

nope

Here's the Soto interview, it's great, especially Pedro:

https://www.mlb.com/video/mlb-tonight-soto-talks-game-6?t=mlb-tonight

Saw an interview with Bregman last night that was interesting. He said he got caught up in his emotions, shouldn't have done it, apologized, and said he deserved Soto mimicking him. Seemed genuine to me, although someone else might find it calculating. Not sure why some of you hate Bregman all of a sudden--too much Steve Garvey/Gary Carter?

my own hatred for Bregman is not recent or sudden

he's just a prick

Here’s the full Alex Bregman commentary about the #Astros and primetime games. So much swag. pic.twitter.com/iaaO5OgB0y

— Ben DuBose (@BenDuBose) October 8, 2018

FanGraphs:

10:46
Guest: Why call interference when he didn’t impact the throw at all??

10:46
Ben Clemens: They just felt like it, it seems.

10:59
bosoxforlife: The umpire is Sam Holbrook who made the infamous infield fly call against the Braves in the 2012 WC game.

xp he's frighteningly good though

lol that was a weird thing to say but I can't hate him for it

honestly hard to blame any of these guys for not respecting decorum during the postseason, especially when you're a 20 year old putting up insane numbers

I don't mind the styling so much...just really don't like the cut of his job or his douchey twitter game

lol aspiring to the fame of Tiger Woods and Floyd Mayweather of all ppl

job=jib

If Washington wins, dumb when I said the MVP would be between Strasburg and Rendon last night. Obviously, Soto would be very much a contender, if not the favourite.

Eaton's in there too if the Nationals win--the three of them are close enough that one huge game (or a key late-game hit) would move that guy to the top of the list. I assume they wouldn't bring Strasburg in for even one batter? I think you'll see Cole at some point.

Stras seems out of the question

no idea how to look this up but I don't think I've ever seen a starter go in relief after starting a day or two before

Bumgarner did something like that in 2014 but I believe he was on 2 days rest at least

Handwringing about the MVP before game 7 is what I've come to expect out of this board. It's almost as if whomever performs best tonight might take the honors!

handwringing about awards is something many of us eschew, except of course whoever has the most WPA should automatically get it in a short series

In 2001, Randy Johnson pitched in relief in Game 7 (and was credited with the win!) the day after starting and winning Game 6.

If Nats win mvp goes to Morbs for believing.

not so much believing as having seen many series turn on a hairpin

Take a compliment dear

Corbin/Hudson/Doolittle all ready for tonight I suppose.

i am still on record for Soto to hit two in tonight's win

ALRIGHT, ALRIGHT, ALRIGHT: Academy Award-winning Actor and Astros Fan Matthew McConaughey will announce “Play Ball!” before Game 7 first pitch.

— Brian McTaggart (@brianmctaggart) October 30, 2019

"Handwringing"? Like I'm sitting here worrying about it? Jesus...the average baseball fan does speculate about these things in the downtime between games. I mean, if you'd prefer, we could continue to argue about the Turner play that ultimately had zero impact on the result (unless you want to argue that the delay hurt the Houston reliever).

Stras seems out of the question

From everything I've looked at online, he's available for a batter or two.

I like the EW podcast today, with Ben and Sam agreeing that the Turner play that ultimately had zero impact on the result was a bad call.

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/effectively-wild-episode-1450-play-loud-and-dont-carry-a-big-stick/

I'll go with what Jeff Blair said on a call-in here: the right call on a terrible rule.

(Blair also said--and this is neither here nor there in relation to last night, just a point of interest--that Cliff Floyd's career basically ended on a similar play.)

fangraphs has camera angles and historical examples: https://blogs.fangraphs.com/a-dumb-rule-almost-ruined-the-world-series

this, from the fryman-knoblauch incident, would seem to be the wisest take

The Yankees blamed Hendry for not calling Fryman out for interference, but Jim Evans, the crew chief, explained that no matter what Fryman’s path to first was, the ball hit him as he stepped on or was about to step on the base and he was entitled to be in fair territory when he reached the base because the base was in fair territory.

The rule even says you have latitude if you're AT the base.

ILB's most beloved baseball writer, Bill James, agrees:

"Every rule, in baseball or in law, has to be read with an understanding of the intent of the rule. Basically, the umpires--and those who are unfortunately defending them today--are trying to read with the rule without acknowledging its intent."

And:

"The best way to handle it is for the umpire to make an announcement: 'I called the play incorrectly last night, and I'm very relieved that it did not change the outcome of the game.' If he just does that, then the controversy goes away, and you can quietly clarify the rule."

It's all moot. (They were, on the broadcast I was watching--Buck Martinez and the other guy--talking about the effect the delay might have on the Houston reliever; not after-the-fact, but during the delay.)

reminds me a lot of the NFL's "catch" rules which has all sorts of bizarre clauses. I remember a Lions/Bears game where Calvin Johnson made this incredible game-winning catch over a defender and maintained clear control of the ball, but set the ball down a little too quickly to go celebrate so it was ruled incomplete. struck me as one of the worst rulings I'd ever seen in professional sports even if ***technically*** it was the correct ruling

maybe the umps, just like the guys managing the teams, tend to just overthink things in the World Series

"It was not unlike watching Atlantis rise again from the sea, the bones of its kings new-covered with flesh."

George Will: "He ostentatiously carried his bat all the way to first base before discarding it. This was preening. Which is an infectious virus." https://t.co/T0MAjt9lCx

— Dan Steinberg (@dcsportsbog) October 30, 2019

when Babe Ruth called the home run that was great and very humble.

he was actually pointing toward someone breaking an unwritten rule of baseball in the bleachers

"stop that man", he reportedly said while pointing to the offender, "his uncouth actions will destroy the foundations of our gentlemanly sport"

he then tried to murder that man with a home run, but failed

Just out of curiosity--and I hope this is acceptable between-game ephemera--I went through Game 7s looking for HOF starting-pitcher match-ups. It's a short list:

2019 – Scherzer/Greinke (assuming they're both headed there)
2001 – Clemens/Schilling
1991 – Morris/Smoltz
1926 – Haines/Hoyt

Koufax and Kaat in '65 is close. Have to put Scherzer/Greinke as the second-best ever.

Easily the most likable.

Jesse Haines and Waite Hoyt were very in-demand at parties and get-togethers.

All praise to KM for the Ruth sequence above.

the veracity of the 'called shot' remains a Question

Proof that I've got this HOF in my head that exists apart from the actual HOF--totally forgot that neither Clemens nor Schilling are in there. So really there have only been two such match-ups; clearly Clemens/Schilling was far and away the best regardless.

...

It's amazing how many regular dudes there were that started Game 7s. Johnny Kucks won Game 7 for the Yankees in '56 with a three-hit shutout.

This must have been some game:

https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/SFN/SFN196210160.shtml

the veracity of the 'called shot' remains a Question

― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, October 30, 2019 6:05 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

which is crazy

one great mythical act of showmanship is willed into existence while the showmanship of a 20 year old dominican is threatening western society as we know it

You're only allowed, what, two upheld appeals? That Eaton play looked close.

The Nats had a plan to come out swinging against Greinke. Not bad --shock and awe is their best chance of winning this game.

Man, George Will accusing someone of preening is rich.

xp agreed.

Whereas Astros were a little more patient than usual vs Scherzer.

One can only dream, but game might actually finish before midnight at this pace. (I swear Scherzer was into his windup on one pitch--or at least that pre-windup thing where he holds the ball above his head--before Brantley was in the box.)

(Mind you, I forgot that we're going to see 37 pitchers.)

wonder who the last guy to throw a 68mph pitch in the WS was? Kershaw has an eephus.

Yikes

That ballpark is dumb

thank yew Chirinos

Gurriel has quietly had a good series -- on both sides of the ball.

How dumb was that bunt attempt?

Glad they only scored one run.

HAHT ATTACK

At 3-0, I thought Scherzer was intentionally non-intentionally walking Springer...lucky, lucky.

Springer tattooed that pitch. The Astros have had a lot of hard hit outs in the series.

Scherzer is throwing hard but hasn't had good command. He was lucky to give up only the one run.

His fastball control is okay, the slider is eluding him.

man, you got to step out, or anything, before you let Greinke have that quick an inning.

Rooting interest aside, I loved when Correa poked that single through the shift; he set up what could've/should've been a big inning.

That strike 2 96mph fastball on Bregman was dope.

Scherzer is Fistering.

The Nats are lucky that the ball is dejuiced in the postseason.

I usually don’t care about ‘left on base’, it’s a weird broadcaster obsession, but tonight i’ll take it.

I'm watching the Buck Martinez feed, which has very lively audio (twice as loud as the Smoltz feed for some reason)--don't remember hearing a pitcher grunt like Max. I'm watching Wimbledon.

Greinke’s grunting loudly too. Enjoying this grunt-off.

Greinke has good stuff tonight, too

valiant effort by Scherzer but given the hard-hit balls and lack of swings and misses, probably time to Max out

— Jay Jaffe (@jay_jaffe) October 31, 2019

Zack Maddux

Greinke -- the one man infield.

Greinke catch was dope.

Just tuned in.

Let's go Nationals

gotta have a guy ready vs Altuve here

Playing with fire.

They have 5 innings left with Corbin/Hudson/Doolittle in the pen. Dunno about keeping Scherzer.

Greinke’s grunting loudly too.

Noticed that the next half-inning and felt stupid. Have I just been oblivious to that all these years?

We see so many great pitchers have their postseason troubles, it'd be nice to see both these guys leave with the score 1-0 or 1-1.

If the Astros lose, these blown chances to score are going to haunt them.

Home teams now 4-48 with RISP.

— Joe Sheehan (@joe_sheehan) October 31, 2019

Bunt to win.

Give me a break on these Zimmerman calls.

yeah the second strike was way off.

paging robots

Did Scherzer threaten Martinez’s life?

Cole I hope you have the energy of game 7 2016 Jon Lester and not of game 7 2014 Bumgarner.

WAKE UP DAVEY

The strikeout pitch to Bregman was the best pitch he's thrown all game.

Rendon was so freaking close

Damn

this is not good

Last batter Scherzer pitches to, please

Washington's lucky it's only 2-0. (And unlucky Cole awaits.)

I'll regret these words, but I can't envision Osuna getting the last out in a 7th WS game. If I were Hinch, I'd be working towards Cole closing out the game and using Osuna earlier.

I want Osuna to get Chapman'd

Take a pitch.

ZG lookin invulnerable right now

he doesn't need help w/ the goddamn strikes

Gotta hand to the woman in the astronaut costume with a giant Greinke face

Remember: the first rule of baseball is, baseball is very strange!

This is turning into the signature moment of Greinke's career, the kind of game that will be mentioned in every bio when he's on the HOF ballot.

Lefty Corbin labouring hard here

if Nats are gonna get to him, I like this inning

Those two strikes were balls

Not a third tho

YES

Here we go

Only the second hit

Rendon is such an amazing player.

We won't be seeing a Maddux in the WS after all.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ping.

Wow

Incredible!

I love this team!

it happened so fast

they all looked so helpless vs Zack

baseball, it can change quickly

Thrilling...but the Nationals need one more for sure.

This team has so much fun playing the game of baseball.

hoping for a cavalcade of mocking "Thank God they got Osuna" tweets

Bregman is shook

These last nine outs are going to be very difficult.

I'm always on here complaining about starters being pulled too early, but--Buck Martinez is in full second-guess mode right now--I think Hinch got Greinke out of there at exactly the right moment. He'd gotten more from him than he ever dreamed, and he handed it over to someone who's mostly been untouchable this year.

Yeah dunno why the broadcast is second guessing putting in Cole who has no relief experience and played yesterday.

That pitch Kendrick got wasn't bad either, Kendrick really fished for it.

He pulled Greinke at the right time, the second guessing will be why Harris and not Cole.

xposts

One

Each out, so important

the new market inefficiency is friendship

— 🎃 Me Growler 👻 (@megrowler) October 31, 2019

I remember 2002, I was being a fanboy and so sure the Giants were going to win. Was about to open up a bottle of wine I bought in Paris just two years ago. Only 5 outs and it didn't happen.

Not really ready for a championship as was only a fan since 1999 and not since I was a kid. 2010 was a very different story

feel like Rendon is due for one

Osuna is throwing a lot of pitches. This has always been a problem for him, he gets ahead but can't put guys away without going deep into counts.

I was counting on Osuna!

Love it.

Soto

And Soto is your 2019 WS MVP!

HOF and MVP talk in the middle of a game, NoTime? C'mon, focus.

Nice

Eat shit Osuna

is it just me or could Soto have scored on that

When RO was on the jays - how was he after coming back out for another inning? I feel like going back to him was a mistake (aside from the obvious reason that it was).

I do not think he could have scored

It's what NoTime said about Osuna. I think he had high save percentages--or at least no worse than normally high--but it never felt easy. He'd fiddle around, run up high counts, seemingly lose concentration, try funny windups...it was like having Mitch Williams Jr. out there.

Nervous

Still have a queasy feeling because of this Houston lineup.

What I remember is sometimes he’d be lights out and sometimes he wouldn’t be. He’d get into funks for little stretches.

jeez, that call

Really? A strike?

bring on the robo strike zone

Strike three on Correa -- worst call of the series, including the supposed interference call.

some ludicrous strike calls for both teams tonight, and all series

I ate way too much bread to relieve stress

Interference call was worse but I hear you

Corbin had a nice game

Did ilbb come to a consensus on that call? Tell me what to feel.

Not as bad as those two back-to-back pitches to Zimmerman, which in tandem doubled the size of the strike zone.

Short version: the consensus was me against IBB.

This zone has been wide all night, just mostly for Greinke. Glad he called it for the Nats for once.

ILB, I mean.

But more importantly, three outs left.

you don't run for Zimmerman here? I need that 5th run

Cole still not in the game, there has to be a story there. He couldn't get loose? Warmed up too many times?

At the end of the day, how do you not use your best pitcher in game 7 of the WS?

xp moot now but

Honestly don't know whether I'd send Corbin out or not. Have no sense of him or Doolittle.

Cole never pitched in relief and pitched yesterday.

If they score here go batter to batter

Nationals might make it moot

The current astros pitcher has a small number near the brim of his hat. Maybe it’s a 45 in honor of our Dear Leader?? Now that’s a true patriot!

Cole pitched in game 5 three days ago.

xpost to vhs

The Nationals got here by using their best starters on two days rest throughout the playoffs.

Cole could go

Oh yah true

Please squeeze out one more run.

I’m sorry everyone

The Nats are like the 2015 Royals in that they dominated the playoffs in the late innings. What is their run differential from the seventh inning on?

Ah yes

Yes

A gift off the glove there!

Even better!

A gift off the glove there!

well morbs, when you're rarely right you're right

Whoops.

this rules

FG’s win probability for Astros down to 1%

Buck did some first-guessing last inning and wanted Corbin back out there. Shouldn't matter now.

Xhuxk Eddy would have liked that spot with Dancin in the Moonlight

..

wow nats

hey clemenza, this probably isn't the best time, and 6 hours of xposts, but

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/instagraphs/ranking-every-world-series-game-7-pitching-matchup/

gibson vs lolich should count, except they forgot to elect lolich to the hof

How nice!

Shit that was a weird but cool series

The right team won

I don’t know if I like the strikeout or the harmless popup for the last out more

Incredible, absolutely incredible.

Scherzer has a ring. My favorite player has a ring. This is deeply deeply satisfying.

Has their ever been a seven game series where the home team lost every game?

There

congrats Expos!

Pour one out for Bryce 2nite

Apparently never.

In any sport.

omar, nope, i think that was the first!

congrats nats/expos/senators

I guess the Astros are our generation's version of the '69-'71 Orioles, rather than the 90's Yankees.

Someone wise here once said that the team to seem to have the most fun is the team that wins and this perfectly encapsulate those Nats.

fucking kill me

five hundred thousand of the worst human beings alive were just activated as baseball fans and they all live within 10 miles of me

Wise men say, teams that win often seem to have more fun

happy for max and zimm though this is undeniably a fun baseball team

someone just shot off a firework i am going to jump off a bridge

Short of the Jays winning, quite exhilarating.

Max and Soto and the Expos connection, yes, but I think mostly love them because they're so damn old.

Has their ever been a seven game series where the home team lost every game?

nope, not in any sport

I figured....that is wild!

Feel a bit bad for Greinke but then again he probably doesn’t care lol

happy for max and zimm though this is undeniably a fun baseball team

someone just shot off a firework i am going to jump off a bridge

― qualx, Wednesday, October 30, 2019 11:57 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

you'll live

Great day, I also got a $800 bonus.

We can retire baby shark now

New Secret Sauce: bullpen optional.

Your owners look like bathfitter salesmen

Man, Ted Lerner is 94, he was born the year after the last Senators world championship.

Glad that a franchise that has not shied away from having large payrolls win the WS, also.

Tough call...So hard to square a pitcher vs. a hitter over a few games. I thought Price should have won last year, I probably would have voted for Soto this year.

I guess the Astros are our generation's version of the '69-'71 Orioles, rather than the 90's Yankees.

'88-'90 A's, too, who were one win shy of three 100-win seasons and lost twice to markedly inferior teams.

I would have gone Soto too.

dynasties are good to have occasionally and houston would've been a fun one if they hadn't turned heel

qualx!!!!! You’re around! Missed u plz post in other threads

Anyway I watched zero baseball this year but go Nats, my sister is happy

u monster

https://usatftw.files.wordpress.com/2019/10/screen-shot-2019-10-31-at-1.00.41-am.png?w=1000&h=600&crop=1

jeez, Cole wearing a Boras cap after the game and expressing his reluctance to speak w/ "I'm not an employee of the team"

Dude, wear the loss for an hour? Sounds like a shit teammate

WPA

Strasburg 0.50
Soto 0.42
Greinke 0.36
Springer 0.36
Doolittle 0.35
Urquidy 0.23
Rendon 0.20
Kendrick 0.20

(xpost) On the call-in this morning, they weren't sure if Cole was joking or not with "I'm not on this team anymore"...Have you seen the clip?

Also, I must redirect everyone to this brilliantly prophetic post from Oct. 13:

THERE'S ONLY ONE POSTSEASON (thread for 2019)

To which you can add: the Royals came back against both the Jays and the Cardinals after falling behind 1-3, while the Nationals came back against both the Dodgers and the Astros after falling behind 2-3 (with the Cardinals sweep between).

I saw a clip of his interview with the hat on and he didn't seem remotely in a joking mood...not sure what the joke would be anyway?

I guess they hadn't actually seen the clip (neither have I)...If you did it in a dry, self-mocking way, I could see where that would be funny--it sounds like the kind of joke Greinke or Joe Biagini would make.

Would definitely be funnier after a win than a loss, though.

putting on you agent's cap immediately postgame nagl

your

and the Nationals didn't even need Don Denkinger! xxxxxp

No more baseball ffs

Wise men say, teams that win often seem to have more fun

― It is my great honor to post on this messageboard! (Karl Malone), Wednesday, October 30, 2019 11:57 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

You could see how united and fun loving these Nats were even when they were in the wild card spot in August. In a way that say the Braves or the Astros weren’t.

I guess the Astros are our generation's version of the '69-'71 Orioles, rather than the 90's Yankees.

'88-'90 A's, too, who were one win shy of three 100-win seasons and lost twice to markedly inferior teams.

― clemenza, Thursday, October 31, 2019 12:36 AM (eleven hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

I sincerely doubt we have seen the last of these Astros. Correa and Altuve and Bregman and Springer still have many good years ahead of them. They are a big market franchise. The farm system is still top 10. Losing Cole will make their rotation go from insane to very good. They can still very much be the 90s Yankees (unfortunately).

i did not watch a single moment of this world series (apart from replays of the trea turner obstruction call)

sup qualx

pic.twitter.com/3JBIGWapjC

— Yoni Boo!👻-rande (@YoniAstro) October 31, 2019

https://twitter.com/DSzymborski/status/1189952465413771264

Here's the updated career top 50 and bottom 50 hitters in career playoff WPA, with players who appeared in 2019 postseason highlighted. pic.twitter.com/VOyARZpGfN

— Dan Szymborski (@DSzymborski) October 31, 2019

wau Maddux

at what point did u decide to boycott, mook?

that maddux line is just for his batting, which is wild -- he was 4-for-55 with 22 K

i was disgusted with the astros assistant GM thing and how it was handled -- one of the women in the locker room is a former co-worker -- and just didn't feel like watching

xp: Reggie Sanders is lol'ing all the way to the bank, how many rings did he end up with?

Ah, only one.

I was remembering that he went to the playoffs an incredible amount of times for a journeyman (incl. 3 WS in 4 years on 3 different teams):

CIN 1995 Lost in NLCS
ATL 2000 Lost in NLDS
ARI 2001 Won WS
SFG 2002 Lost WS
STL 2004 Lost WS
STL 2005 Lost NLCS

has anyone checked in on the mattress guy

pic.twitter.com/3JBIGWapjC
— Yoni Boo!👻-rande (@YoniAstro) October 31, 2019

lmaooooooo

gibson vs lolich should count, except they forgot to elect lolich to the hof

That was a good one, yeah; Lolich got better after that, but he was already pretty good. (Last time a pitcher won three, right?)

I wish Craig Wright had added a little subjectivity to his rankings based on the overall historical stature of the pitcher. Smoltz was fast becoming one of the best pitchers in the game by '91, and Morris was Morris (I'm aware, I'm aware...); 15th seems low.

(And if you want to go strictly by a central-mean measure of WAR, change the title to "Calculating Every World Series Game 7 Pitching Matchup.")

qualx!!!!! You’re around! Missed u plz post in other threads

― president of deluded fruitcakes anonymous (silby), Thursday, October 31, 2019 2:25 AM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

hey!! i don't know how much i'll post. i think i'm gonna start a new account because this one has too many bookmarks

I get setting guidelines beforehand, but I still fail to understand how you get to the point of being down 3-2 in the 8th inning of Game 7, and deciding Osuna's your better bet against the top of the Nationals' order than the single best pitcher in baseball this year. https://t.co/a7HByfu2MJ

— Jay Jaffe (@jay_jaffe) November 1, 2019

New in this story— Closer Sean Doolittle will not attend the White House with the Nationals on Monday. He is the first player to confirm that they will not be there: https://t.co/6bhqI74PUI

— Jesse Dougherty (@dougherty_jesse) November 1, 2019

already one more white guy than last year's Sawx

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/11/01/sean-doolittle-declining-white-house-invite-i-dont-want-hang-out-with-somebody-who-talks-like-that/

Anyone going to the victory parade? I happen to be in DC for work and I’m thinking of heading over this afternoon.

From a Peter Gammons Athletic piece:

This wasn’t the first time a sitting president was loudly booed at a World Series game. In 1931, at Shibe Park in Philadelphia, with the nation mired in the Great Depression, a former Stanford shortstop named Herbert Hoover was derided and showered with the chant, “We want beer!” Baseball and Prohibition didn’t mix.

I think people should disrupt Trump rallies around the country by chanting "We want beer!"

in philadelphia, you say

It could have unraveled either way, but Hinch is going to have to hear about not using Cole to the grave. I'm guessing him not wearing the 'stros hat was Cole letting a bit o'diva out because he did not get to throw.

Shot to win a World Series does not come up very often. I can get why the player might be biting the bit that he did not get the ball, as more than likely Cole won't get that shot again.

Seems to me you should have been planning from the start of the game with the lead in the 5th to start getting Cole ready with the idea he's coming in to bridge from the end if the start works out.

Lot of the baseball writers/talking heads seem to think pulling Grienke was perhaps the bigger error.

Taking out Zack seemed fine. Third time through, he was missing his spots....that’s about when you want to take a starter out

Not using Cole on the other hand, I just don’t get it at all, especially since he said he was available to protect a lead. It is Game 7 of the World Series, there is no reason to save him, even if you’re down 10-2 you still put him in to keep the deficit at 8. If he thought he had a better match up in the moment then fine. But not using him at all is just odd.

Hinch's reliance on Harris after he shit the bed in game 6 is where, if I was an Astros fan, I'd draw the line. There were so many other arms, both bullpen & starting, to go to in game 7. And even after Harris gives up a leadoff hit he keeps him in and then Rendon just finishes him off. Harris is poised to be the next Brad Lidge.

hinch, on his decisions, asked by jake kaplan:

Two days later, I'm sure you've replayed a lot of Game 7 in your head probably many times already. Are there are any decisions that you regret in retrospect?

Regret is a tough word because any time something doesn't work it's natural to want to have tried it a different way. And I just don't know if other decisions would've been perfect, either. We always assume that the other way would've been perfectly fine.

I don't regret our process. I don't regret our plan. I don't regret trusting the guys that we trusted. I regret the results. And that's hard to explain.

The first major decision point pertained to whether to pull Greinke in the seventh after the homer and the walk. It's the third time through the order, obviously. There's a runner on first in a one-run game. But he's also allowed only two hits. Why (pull him) there?

So going into the game, (the mindset is) it's Game 7. I've been through a lot of them. I remember pulling Charlie Morton at like 60-some pitches in the ALCS (in 2017). I remember pulling Lance McCullers after two-plus innings in the World Series in '17. So, there's a natural feeling of being ready to go to the 'pen early.

When Zack was going through his outing and was doing very well and pitched himself out of any base runners -- he got a couple double plays, he got some big swings and misses -- the game kept extending to the point where you get to the seventh inning and you start counting outs. We have nine outs left. Who's going to get them?

Zack had pitched effectively the second time through, and I remember going over our plan of 'Do we want him to face the middle of the order the third time through? When is that third time through going to be?' The thought was that it was going to be perhaps the fifth inning or even the sixth inning, but it got to the seventh inning.

At that point, you're going batter to batter. You have nine outs left to finish out. You have a two-run lead. When (Anthony) Rendon hit the homer to make it 2-1, it obviously amplified those feelings of wanting to have the perfect matchup in the area of the lineup that we were in. Having him face (Juan) Soto I liked because of his ability to slow the ball down. He can throw the slowest of breaking balls. He can throw the changeup whenever he wanted. He rarely made mistakes with his fastball. And Soto had hit everything the entire series. And I thought Zack pitched him carefully -- near misses, didn't get our calls, didn't execute, the at-bat got a little bit longer and then I'm faced with the (Howie) Kendrick decision.

Will (Harris) was up from virtually the beginning of the inning for Kendrick or (Asdrúbal) Cabrera. I always target somewhere later in the inning. If things start to go south for Zack, I had our best reliever this postseason ready to go. Losing two hitters in a row, Kendrick having had the most history against Zack other than Cabrera on their team led me to go to Will Harris.

Will Harris had struck out Kendrick earlier in the series in a big spot. He was our most effective reliever throughout the postseason. I had given him a little bit of leash, so to speak, of a couple hitters to get the outs and Zack was never going to face Cabrera given their history together.*

And so I went to Will. Will threw a first-pitch curveball, he gets the swing and miss. He throws the down-and-away cutter on the corner as low in the strike zone and as far down and away in the strike zone and Kendrick hits the foul pole. And that was the result. But the process that led me to putting him in, I was extremely comfortable with.

(*Note: Cabrera is 18-for-41 with four doubles and a triple in his career against Greinke. And while almost all of those at-bats occurred in 2012 or earlier, Cabrera was 2-for-4 with a double off Greinke in the World Series.)

You said in your end-of-season presser that Cole wasn't coming in mid-inning no matter what. The clean inning for a starter coming into a game in relief concept isn't new. But in 2017 (in Game 4 of the ALDS in Boston), you did do it with (Justin) Verlander and he gave up a homer. Did that color your feeling about doing that?

And in 2015 with (Dallas) Keuchel. I did the same thing. And (Mike) Fiers, in '15. So I have a lot of memories of starters coming into games on short rest not being optimal. The rest was just as much on my mind as anything. I had just been asked relentlessly two series ago why I would start Justin Verlander with full prep on three days' rest. Now we're looking at a pitcher on two days' rest. There's a health concern with Gerrit entering free agency and having emptied his tank, in his words, after Game 5. There's also the execution issue of 'Is a guy going to be sharp?' I watched JV not have his slider in Tampa. I did watch Fiers and Keuchel come out of the 'pen in '15 and not be able to be at their best. That was certainly in the back of my mind. But I wanted to make sure that I could utilize our other guys and have Gerrit as a backup plan rather than have Gerrit as the primary reason.

Will Harris, Joe Smith, Roberto Osuna were most likely always going to pitch in front of Gerrit on two days' rest. And I felt like they had earned that based on how they had pitched during the World Series.

So do you think the general public discourse around this is underrating the rest component for Cole?

I think in general any decision after the seventh inning that's made gets scrutinized because of the result. Bringing in Will Harris in that type of situation was smart in Game 3, ironically for Zack. He got out of it and that catapulted us to winning that game, being aggressive in that situation. Fast-forward to Game 7 and because of the result it is heavily scrutinized. And it can be and should be because it's the nature of managing and decision-making.

I think the unknown, we just can't assume that everything would've been perfect. I can't operate in that scenario. Because let's be honest, in today's world, right or wrong, I'm always going to be questioned. If Greinke had given up the homer (to Kendrick) than I overextended him. If Cole had come in and not been sharp it was because he didn't have rest. That's what makes managing both beautiful and agonizing.

But specifically back to starters coming in mid-inning, inheriting runners, you just don't want to do that because they've never done it before?

Yeah, I think there is a little bit of pause in that because of the lack of experience in that situation. Relievers are trained to be at their best from the very first pitch. Starters, all I hear about is routine and what they do to get themselves ready to get themselves into an at-bat. It might be as simple as starting from the wind-up. It might be as complex as being able to execute a secondary pitch for the first pitch that you throw that day. I'm not saying it's not possible and it very well can be. But what brings you pause is you're bringing pitchers into unfamiliar territory and asking them to do things for the first time at a physically limited time in their recovery and in their prep. Maybe it works out. It absolutely could have. But it's not as if that had no downside.

So after the top of the fifth, you tell Gerrit to walk out to the bullpen. He immediately starts playing catch, warming up.

That was odd to me, too; I asked (pitching coach Brent Strom) why he was doing that and we called down and it was just that Gerrit wanted to throw a little bit and either get himself loose or warm himself up. It was a cold night. That was on his own. He decided he wanted to play catch and throw a little bit.

So did you ever get him up, per se?

Yes. So, the other part of this is we wanted to give him ample time to get himself ready. These guys are ridiculously good at routine. And so for starters, they don't just get up and in. Ryan Pressly takes five to seven pitches. Will Harris takes 10 to 12 pitches. Osuna takes 10 pitches. Starting pitchers throw generally 25 to 35 pitches to get themselves ready for their start. That's just completely different. When the game moves as fast as it does and decisions change on a batter-to-batter basis, that impacts the starting pitcher (who is pitching in relief), not knowing when you're going to come in. Again, I don't know that that necessarily dictates performance. But that is the dilemma. Gerrit wanting to throw early indicates that exactly.

When the seventh inning started, if Will Harris gets out of that -- he comes in and punches out Kendrick, Cabrera grounds out to first -- I have a decision to make on Roberto Osuna in the eighth or Gerrit Cole in the eighth. And that's why (Cole) was up throwing. Because we still would've had the lead, 2-1.

At the start of the seventh was when he officially started warming up.

Started getting himself ready for a potential eighth inning or ninth inning. We had communicated to him all of the various situations. And within a span of a couple pitches, it went from probable to pitch the eighth or the ninth to a down game.

So there was a chance he was going the eighth and the ninth?

I'm not sure which way I would have ultimately gone with Osuna. The two scenarios were Gerrit goes out (in the eighth) and Osuna protects him in case he's not at his best or Osuna goes out and then I read Osuna's inning to see if it's a two-inning save or do I go to Gerrit Cole in the ninth? Those were the scenarios.

And then as soon as Kendrick hits the homer off Harris, the plan in place unravels.

It changed, yes. It didn't change for Osuna because Osuna was up immediately when Will Harris came in. Because I'm not bringing Gerrit Cole in the middle of an inning. So Osuna got up when Harris came in, for later in the inning. Are they going to pinch-hit (Matt) Adams? Where is (Ryan) Zimmerman? The game changes. You have to be prepared a batter early. So Osuna started throwing and then the inning developed to where I brought in Osuna for Zimmerman.

It's still a one-run game in the eighth and a two-run game to begin the ninth. Why not Cole in either of those clean inning situations?

It's a fair question. I think part of it is trying to balance all that was in play versus Joe Smith in a clean inning facing all right-handed hitters. That's a very fair question. Joe had been tremendous during the World Series. He had pitched the eighth inning of one of our wins. He had been really, really tough to hit. And then he went in and broke two bats and walked a guy. So the results didn't match the matchup. But that certainly played a factor. Am I going to pitch Gerrit in a down game and is him on two days' rest a better option than Joe Smith, who had been incredibly effective during the World Series?

And Osuna for the eighth?

Going back out? Yeah, I liked him (in that spot). Part of the reason that we didn't use Osuna liberally during the series was building up toward that 30 to 40 pitch count possibility. At that point, going to the top of the order, we felt like we have our closer who's fresh who hadn't pitched a ton who they hadn't seen a ton. It just didn't work.

All the talk about the late innings, ultimately the missed opportunities against (Max) Scherzer really loom large. Is that what you think about most?

When you think about Game 7 as one game, we certainly had a lot of opportunities, some we failed at, some we didn't. George Springer hitting a rocket to left field on a 3-0 pitch with second and third that had a little bit of top spin, if he cuts underneath it it's probably a homer. If he hits it a little higher, hits it with a little bit more topspin, Soto might misplay it. That's a huge turn of events. Jose Altuve hitting a rocket to center field with runners in scoring position. Those aren't failures. That's just the game beat us. While there were other opportunities where we just didn't find the ball in play, didn't capitalize.

On the series as a whole, I still think about Game 6. I still think about Game 1. I still think about Game 2. One swing by (Kurt) Suzuki changed that game completely. As a manager, I dwell on it all. I don't just simply pinpoint the decision to go to (Harris for) Kendrick as the end all be all. It's a seven-game series. So many things happened and it will take a long time to process.

One decision early in the game that maybe gets lost is you calling for (Robinson) Chirinos to bunt in the second. It's something you didn't do much in the regular season. I think you were bottom five in bunts. I don't think Chirinos had bunted since April. Do you regret that decision?

Again, I can't regret any decision because when I made it, I made it for the reasons that we believed in. I don't like using the word regret. I regret the result. At that point, we're trying to score one run. We're at a point of our order where it's really hard to hit Max. So, opening up multiple options. If he gets the bunt down, now we have second and third and one out with Josh Reddick up. They have to play the infield in. That increases the likelihood of finding a hole or getting a ball to the outfield. In actuality, if you want to play the 'What if?' game, the hooked ball that (Reddick) hit down the line that was not hard-hit Zimmerman doesn't field if the infield's in. With the infield back, he ran over and caught it for the out. Trying to play for one run there in Game 7 of the World Series, where the impact of run scoring is magnified, was the thought. As we saw in later at-bats, it wasn't a particularly good matchup for Robbie -- the high fastball, the power breaking ball. He ended up chasing later in the game. So not liking the matchup, having an opportunity to try to put a little pressure on them and increase our likelihood of scoring one run was the motivation.

The offseason comes really fast for teams in the World Series. How long do you allow yourself to chew on this series versus turning the page and thinking about the offseason and next year?

I think there's a part of you that will never get over it. And that's OK. I still think about the Red Sox ALCS (in 2018). There is a part of it that always just hangs with you. But I think over time it just happens. Business starts happening fast. Free agency hits. I'll have a meeting with the front office over our roster. The GM meetings, Jeff (Luhnow) will go. The winter meetings come. It happens really fast, so you have to find your balance.

But this will sting for a while because we worked the entire year to win the World Series and we were eight outs away. But I'll be able to turn the page when it needs to be.

i know this is kind of "damning with faint praise", but i say give the manager of the year award to hinch for being able to consistently form full sentences and make a series of points. it's almost startling to see that

yeah he seems like a pretty sharp guy

That might be the most detailed account of a manager's thought process that I've ever read. (Can't remember if I read Weaver's book...I've read biographies of Stengel and Durocher, but I don't really read autobiographies from managers.)

That's a really great interview. I read somewhere that Kendrick had been thrown around 30 cutters away this season. Out of those thirty, he had one hit. Harris hit the spot perfectly, the pitch wasn't a mistake. Kendrick had a great swing and hit it out. Maybe Harris was tired after so many appearances and if he'd thrown that cutter one or two MPH faster, it's a foul ball. Not going to Cole in the eighth or ninth is less defensible, but at least he tries to address it.

I have a hunch that the hyper-analytic teams like Houston and LA do too much pre-scripting before the game and it's making them less flexible to in-game strategy moves. They pre-plan for so many scenarios but of course you can't plan for everything, and when something unexpected comes up the game starts passing them by. The Astros probably had two general plans for Cole. If they were winning, he protects the lead in the 8th and or the 9th. If Greinke gets hammered early, then he pitches in the middle innings to keep the game close (although Cole still claims that he wasn't supposed to pitch if they were losing). They didn't consider the in-between scenario where they have a lead and the guy who's supposed to bridge to Cole with the lead doesn't do his job. In Game 5 of the NLDS, I think the Dodgers had a similar plan -- if Buehler goes deep into the game with a lead, Kershaw is next, then Kelly for the save. Unless they have a two or three run lead, in which Kelly can hand off to Jansen for the save. They didn't count on Kershaw choking (how??) and Kelly having to pitch in a tie game. Maybe I'm speculating too much. But I thought about this when LA messed up their pitching decisions in Game 7 of the '17 Series too.

I have a hunch that the hyper-analytic teams like Houston and LA do too much pre-scripting before the game and it's making them less flexible to in-game strategy moves.

You mean spontaneous in-game moves like issuing an IBB when you've never issued one all year?!

I don't know that Houston can be accused of "hyperanalysis" now... wouldn't they have the same profile in 2017, when October worked out fine for them? (As it did this month too, through WS Game 5.) And a number of strategies that could be questioned aren't "analytic" at all, like the IBB and the Chirinos bunt attempt (has it been revealed if that was his own idea?).

And the Nationals are pretty damn analytic too.... The NYT just profiled their ass't general manager, Sam Mondry-Cohen, who was immersed in sabermetrics as a 16-yo batboy. (Now it's true that Mike Rizzo is a former scout and they have maintained a strong scouting infrastructure.)

clem, fwiw Durocher's autobio is considered to be heavy on fiction. The two excellent Stengel bios I've read, which include material on his tactical approach, are Steven Goldman's (the pre-genius years) and Bob Creamer's classic.

I still have no explanation for the IBB and Chirinos' bunt.

The Nats have their analytics guys too, all teams do. They kept throwing their best pitchers out there, treating almost every game like an elimination game (and in fact 5/17 of them were). Yes, that's in large part because they only trusted maybe six or seven guys. But the Astros' approach to pitching came off as overly scripted. "We like Harris and Smith in those situation" sounds like a plan they came up with in September. For Game 7 of the World Series you need to update the plan.

As for the Dodgers, I'll stick by my point. The higher ups never question his in-game decision making, and there have been plenty of sketchy decisions made the past three postseasons. They fully support him, in part, because some of those controversial decisions came from higher up. Again, that's my opinion, nobody really knows how it works there.

"his in-game decision making" ... I'm talking about Dave Roberts here. The Dodgers have made it clear that Roberts is their guy, even if there's a perception that "he" has been outmanaged in the playoffs the past three years.

(xpost) I haven't read the Goldman book, but Creamer's Stengel biography is one of my favourites. I don't recall the tactical discussions, but the story, to pick a word at random, is amazing. My copy's boxed up, otherwise I'd quote the chapter ending after the Braves fire him, where it looks like his baseball career is over. Greatest second act ever.

The one thing I get from Hinch re Cole is that--corny and irrational as it may sound--he was genuinely concerned about overextending him. I guess you can argue that if you plan on pitching him an inning or two to save a lead, what's the difference if that inning or two comes earlier in the game. But, in his mind, the only reason justifying any potential risk was protecting a lead; he wasn't, as he puts it, going to take that chance chasing after a win.

You can certainly disagree, but I find that anachronistically admirable.