baseball obituaries 2020

Don Larsen

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28407056/don-larsen-pitched-only-perfect-world-series-game-dies-90

dang, i just saw this. here's jaffe's piece: https://blogs.fangraphs.com/imperfect-but-for-one-afternoon-don-larsen-1929-2020/

ed sprague sr, 74

pretty bad pitcher, apart from a solid 1974 campaign with milwaukee

was the orioles scout who signed mike mussina

Jr. hit a very memorable WS home run.

George Nicolau

https://www.latimes.com/obituaries/story/2020-01-10/george-nicolau-mlb-collusion-drugs-dodgers-dead

Royals owner/Walmart boss David Glass

(yeah, meh)

Just spoke with Mets star Jeff McNeil, who played for John Altobelli, one of the victims of the Calabasas helicopter crash, who managed Brewster in the Cape Cod League in 2012.

Said McNeil: "He's one of the main reasons I’m still playing professional baseball.”

— Jeff Passan (@JeffPassan) January 26, 2020

roger kahn, author of 'the boys of summer', 92

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/07/obituaries/roger-kahn-who-lifted-sportswriting-with-boys-of-summer-dies-at-92.html

RIP Rog, even tho ten was probably a little young for me to read the book

I really need to read "The Boys of Summer" again after 30 years.

japanese legend katsuya nomura, 84

catcher who played 26 seasons, hitting .277/.357/.508 with 657 homers (second to oh). also managed for 24 years

tony fernandez, 57

He was so good his first couple of seasons; looked like he was going to be right up there with Ripken and Yount before long. (Probably less impressive analytically, but that was barely around then.) He never stayed at that level, but he had a long, solid career, and his return to the Jays for the '93 WS team was great. So young.

Forgot he was the fourth player in the Carter/Alomar for McGriff/Fernandez trade in 1990. Has there been a bigger-name trade since? I know Alomar hadn't flourished yet, but James had already identified him as a future superstar--I still remember his Alomar entry in The Baseball Book a year or two earlier, where he wrote "GET ROBERTO ALOMAR" whether you were a fantasy player or card collector or whatever. So you had Alomar, one of the 10 best hitters in the game in McGriff, the wildly-overrated-in-retrospect but big-name and big-RBI-guy Carter, and Fernandez, who was still thought of as a possible/probable Hall of Famer. Don't recall a bigger one since, or at least not between two teams--there've been some multi-team transactions along those lines.

Yeah three guys who at their peaks were HOF type talents (one already in, one who will be, and a third in Fernandez who despite maybe never reaching his potential finished with an impressive career WAR due to those early seasons and late career renaissance) and a fourth who was not great but a solid bat in his best years.

So young, I didn't know he was sick. I always think of him as the 22 year old phenom and potential best SS in the game from the '85 division winners. Many people probably remember him as the guy whose error might have given away the '97 WS. Each of his stints with the Jays was memorable in some way. He's one of my favourite players ever and I'm really sorry to hear of his passing.

And yes, that 1990 trade was perhaps the last of its kind. It wasn't about big market vs small market teams, or trying to get value for players before they test free agency, or tanking/rebuilding to prepare for the future. It was a straight up challenge trade of four star players. There may never be another one like it again.

And there was a perfect symmetry to the trade in that the Jays got the best and the least of the four, and the Padres got the middle two guys--things could have gone either way, and if Alomar hadn't developed (which in turn got the Jays over the hump, which brought in Winfield and Molitor, all of which made Carter look better than he was), it could have been a terrible trade for Toronto.

Olerud being able to replace McGriff was a big part of that deal too. iirc he went straight from collage ball to the majors. that aspect was definitely a risk aswell.

orrin freeman, who had been a scout/farm director/special assistant to the gm for the marlins since their inception in 1991

NY/SF Giants ace Johnny Antonelli

https://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/sports/2020/02/28/johnny-antonelli-dies-new-york-giants-pitcher-world-series-hero-1954-rochester-ny-businessman/4902150002/

yankees' kelly rodman, one of very few female scouts in the game

not sure of the cause, but she was only ~40

Jimmy Wynn was posted in the ILX thread, but he should get one here too.

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/legendary-astros-outfielder-jimmy-wynn-dies-at-age-78/

I was a full-fledged Reds fan by '74, so I remember the phenomenal start the Dodgers had that year.

end of April: 17-6
end of May: 36-14
end of June: 52-24

Still, the Reds almost caught them, only finishing 4.0 out (they were within a game-and-a-half on Sept. 14). I thought Wynn had the same kind of start, but not quite: phenomenal May, surrounded by three good but not spectacular months (and a slow August/September). Really good year overall, though (it was a pitcher's year, I think), and he was 5th in MVP voting, finishing well ahead of winner Garvey and runner-up Brock in WAR (and basically tied with Bench, who finished 4th). Weird: spending the bulk of his career in the Astrodome and Chez Ravine, I just assumed he got killed by his home parks, but for his career he was .256/.376/.443 at home, .245/.355/.429 on the road. One of the great nicknames ever, and one of those guys who was a walking machine before anybody cared.

RIP Toy Cannon

We mourn the death of Ed Farmer who passed away Wednesday night.

Farmer worked as a radio broadcaster for the Chicago White Sox for nearly 30 years, played 11 seasons in the major leagues, including three with his hometown White Sox, and was a strong advocate for organ donation. pic.twitter.com/wx7itjfEYk

— Chicago White Sox (@whitesox) April 2, 2020

al kaline, 85

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/mlb/tigers/2020/04/06/al-kaline-dies-detroit-tigers/505371001

That's a big one. As I just posted on Facebook, though, of all the famous HOF'ers who played most of their careers in the '60s, I have less of a sense of Kaline than any of them.

I remember seeing him on TV at the end of his career.

per Ben Lindbergh on EW, Kaline had the most career HR (399) w/out ever hitting 30 in a year.

There is a lot of love coming out in the articles about Al Kaline, that guy seems to have been well liked by seemingly everyone. I knew him from baseball cards as a kid, but that he was supposed to be the real deal as a player good all the way around.

the most career HR (399) w/out ever hitting 30 in a year

I'd say that pinpoints his relative anonymity outside of Detroit better than anything.

(By which I mean next to Mays, Aaron, Clemente, Yaz, etc.)

Yaz is a pretty good comparison in a lot of ways -- Kaline didn't have nearly the same peak, but both spent most of their career operating not at that superstar peak but at a slightly lower tier of stardom in terms of production. Similar to Cal Ripken and Brett, I guess -- a couple other members of the 20+ seasons with one team club. Kaline also didn't have the same level of fame as any of those guys, probably just a matter of him not having a single season with truly eye-popping counting stats.

disappointing that he never played catcher even for just an inning, would have been cool for Al Kaline to be part of a battery.

o_O

No dad jokes on the obit thread?

I was going to say he was one of the few players of his caliber where it could be argued his best season was his first full one, but his age 20 season (didn’t turn 21 til December of that year) was actually his second full one.

no, it was solid

tbf, he made 18 all-star games, so *someone* recognized he was good

I quoted the battery line on Facebook!

Kaline was definitely highly thought of by other players. All-Star voting wasn't handed over to fans until 1970; I assume all those AS appearances were voted on by players?

Brooks Robinson said he was the best he played against

gen believed he forsook some power for average and walks

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/remembering-al-kaline-mr-tiger-1934-2020/

Al Kaline’s family put a “regular” obit in the Sunday @freep. By blending in, it’s an example of how one-of-a-kind he really was. pic.twitter.com/CR7ej9aZAT

— Matt Friedman (@mattfrieds) April 12, 2020

Glenn Beckert:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/former-chicago-cubs-star-glenn-beckert-dies/

One of those random stats that will stick in my mind forever: he hit .340 one year, when Rod Carew was the only second baseman who did that. (Okay, I checked--.342.)

hank steinbrenner, 63, non-covid-related

https://nypost.com/2020/04/14/hank-steinbrenner-yankees-co-owner-dead-at-63/

jim frey, 88

https://mlb.nbcsports.com/2020/04/14/former-royals-cubs-manager-jim-frey-dies-at-88

Within a few months of Tony Fernandez, Dámaso García.

http://mlb.nbcsports.com/2020/04/15/long-time-blue-jays-infielder-damaso-garcia-dies/

RIP I remember being super bummed as a 9 or 10-yr old when he was included in that Chambliss trade

And being down on Rick Cerone

Steve Dalkowski, a wild left-hander who was said to have been dubbed "the fastest pitcher in baseball history" by Ted Williams, died this week in New Britain, Connecticut. He was 80.

Dalkowski, who once struck out 24 batters in a minor league game -- and walked 18 -- never made it to the big leagues.

Writer-director Ron Shelton, who spent five years in the Orioles farm system, heard about Dalkowski's exploits and based the character Nuke Laloosh in 'Bull Durham' on the pitcher.

The A's are mourning the loss of former Athletic minor leaguer Miguel Marte, who passed away earlier this week due to complications from COVID-19. Marte played in the A's system from 2008-2012. Our thoughts and prayers are with his family and friends.https://t.co/PV7UEuAuvL pic.twitter.com/mVeLdOUciU

— Oakland A's (@Athletics) May 1, 2020

journeyman Matt Keough, AL All-Star as a rookie in 1978 & was selected AL Comeback Player of the Year in 1980, both for the A's.

Tonight my dad and hero Bob Watson has passed away after a long fight with kidney disease.. #Astros #Yankees #RedSox #Braves #Athletics #USABAseball #MLB #1stBlackGM pic.twitter.com/obKe1mwJYc

— K Dubb (@TheReal_KDubb) May 15, 2020

Understand that I realize why, but Watson was the very definition of what James called "the RBI guy with mystique," something you can't have in the era of analytics.

http://www.cnn.com/2020/05/18/us/arizona-diamondbacks-player-wife-dead-spt-trnd/index.html

biff pocoroba, 66

Not sure where to post this, but this is a must read (and pretty devastating):

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/29224260/inside-roy-halladay-struggle-pain-addiction

Sad MLB news. Claudell Washington passed away this AM...

— Full Dissident (@hbryant42) June 10, 2020

Wasn't he basically the star of the team for a season after Finley got rid of everyone or they cleared out?

Checked, and no--he was gone by '77 himself, and in '76, Tenace, Campanaris, Bando, Rudi, and North were still there. Really, only Jackson, Hunter, and Holtzman were gone.

he had a very nice age-20 season, which was before my time. i only remember him with the barves

a linchpin of the 1980 Mets

I seem to remember Claudell Washington making an unbelievable catch when he was with the Braves where at full speed goes up the wall catches the ball then goes over the wall. To my memory, it was in the part of the wall back at the old Braves stadium when the walls were like plexiglass and visible through them, so in the clip you see him falling behind the wall.

Looked and could not find the clip, but I seem to remember it being in one of those "best all time catch" clips you would see back in the 80s.

1967 NL cy young winner mike mccormick, 81

Mike Ryan

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/29442904/former-catcher-long-coach-mike-ryan-dies-78

Heartbroken today with the news of Tony Taylor’s passing. To me, he was more than a former teammate... he was my best friend and one of finest human beings on the planet pic.twitter.com/enXxCvzu1k

— Dick Allen (@DickAllen_15) July 16, 2020

Earlier this week, Johan Maya welcomed his pregnant wife home after she recovered from COVID-19. Then the Diamondbacks scout got sick. He died on Thursday, leaving a hole in the baseball community.

With @jakemkaplan:https://t.co/N2ZvRkjU7F

— Zach Buchanan (@ZHBuchanan) July 24, 2020

by all accounts a good guy, was in minor league baseball forever

Awful news. Longtime MiLB owner Lou Schwechheimer, currently owner of the new AAA club in Wichita has passed away from the novel coronavirus. pic.twitter.com/KO6LGeFjWJ

— JJ Cooper (@jjcoop36) July 29, 2020

John McNamara

https://mlb.nbcsports.com/2020/07/29/former-red-sox-manager-john-mcnamara-dies-at-88/

avatar of a blessedly crap Yankees era

Column: RIP Horace Clarke, who unwittingly lent his name to an era of #Yankees futility but never let a terrible case of bad timing alter the fact that he loved his life and cherished his memories. https://t.co/Sf96AGGvGv

— Mike Vaccaro (@MikeVacc) August 6, 2020

:(

tom seaver

:( rip

paul giamatti's dad waxes hardcore rhapsodic on seaver after the mets traded him: https://harpers.org/archive/1977/09/tom-seavers-farewell

this is pretty cool

Every Mets player has dirt on their right knee as a tribute to Tom Seaver, who’s knee would hit the ground as a result of his delivery 🧡 pic.twitter.com/3QkXueO8di

— SI MLB (@si_mlb) September 3, 2020

Nice tweets from Palmer ("Baseball lost the best pitcher of my era") and Jenkins. One of my favourite SI covers:

http://phildellio.tripod.com/toughest.jpg

Mr Baseball to me

His beginnings:

https://mcusercontent.com/70117f7e29064e68418377637/files/9ac95a1f-1d62-433b-8de2-44f0e9716a50/20073_Seaver_Beginning.pdf

RIP Jay Johnstone, who played for 8 teams in his 20-yr #MLB career (1966-1985). A excellent PH & role player, Johnstone was one of baseball's great pranksters & fan favorite. He was 74. His @sabr bio https://t.co/a82uL7ta16 pic.twitter.com/81At5sLOu4

— SABR BioProject (@SABRbioproject) September 28, 2020

Bob Gibson

RIP to a real one

damn, within a couple weeks of lou brock, too.

RIP Bob Gibson. :(

One of the two times I was in Cooperstown, he was on the street signing autographs--not near anything, just sitting there on his own. I remembered reading something where he wished fans would just shake his hand instead of asking for autographs, so, very proud of myself, that's what I did, walked up and asked to shake his hand--not thinking that there might be a difference between signing for money and getting interrupted in a restaurant and signing. He put out his hand, half looked away, and gave me the deadest handshake in the history of handshakes.

I view it as a funny, embarrassing story. I in no way stopped being a fan or anything. I cut major slack for any African-American player who came up through the '50s.

World moves on...sad to see them go.

I remember Jay Johnstone having some big pinch hits for the Cubs back in 84.

I dunno, clem, I don't think Ernie Banks or Buck O'Neil would've done that.

The Roger Angell profile of Gibson I posted two weeks ago:

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1980/09/22/distance

They wouldn't have, no, but I understand both reactions. The whole signing business--I'm not part of that world, but my collector friend is immersed in it, so I hear all his stories--is bizarre.

In my telling, Gibby watched a nine-pitcher shutout in October and decided he’d seen enough.

— Joe Sheehan (@joe_sheehan) October 3, 2020

They changed the rules of baseball to stop Bob Gibson. That's the only epitaph you need.

— Richard M. Nixon (@dick_nixon) October 3, 2020

Was reading Joe Posnanski's obituary for Gale Sayers from 10 days ago, and there's this:

The basics of his career are well known. He was a prodigy in Omaha, Neb. — where he was coached for a time by Baseball Hall of Famer Bob Gibson’s brother Josh — and he became a star at the University of Kansas.

Besides the coincidental timing, I didn't know Gibson had a brother named Josh.

https://www.mlb.com/video/bob-costas-reflects-on-bob-gibson?t=remembering-bob-gibson

Bob Costas (who I've never minded)--you probably know the story of Gibson's final pitch and the aftermath, but if not, it's here.

Pete LaCock... I had forgotten it.

What's really impressive is the time he faced two or three hitters with a broken leg.

xpost i had never heard of the pete LaCock story, thank you

that's a really godo one

you know what i mean

;_;

Pete LaCock is the son of Peter Marshall (Hollywood Squares). Did he actually think it was a good idea to change his name from Marshall to LaCock? I mean, I know you don't want to live in your father's shadow, but still.

Ralph Pierre LaCock (born March 30, 1926, is better known by his stage name Peter Marshall. He is an American television and radio personality, singer, and actor. (Still alive at 94.)

Duh...that actually occurred to me after I posted--maybe it was dad who changed his name.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ej5YT3IXgAMnJxK?format=jpg&name=small

noooo

Not sure if I got this from Ball Four or not: if Cronin's name wasn't stamped on straight, he could make the baseball drop.

Ford's autobiography was one of my favourites growing up, I read it countless times.

The last of Casey’s Whiskey Slicks

really?! what makes it so interesting? (i know nothing about the man outside of his stats)
xpost

His off the field stories are interesting (plenty of stuff about partying all night in New York clubs), his takes on baseball personalities come across as real, three dimensional opinions, obviously he glosses over some of the seedier stuff that was surely going on but the book feels more honest than those by many of his contemporaries that I read at the time. He admits to cheating in the 60's when he was losing something off his fastball -- it was rare (maybe unprecedented?) to read something like that from a HOFer of his calibre.

Thanks, I might make that my next book!

Whitey Ford: A HOF Cheater
by The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall

joe morgan

What a month this has been, jfc

Christ.

RIP

Reading his capsule bio, I had no idea he was 5'7".

Glad I witnessed his historic '75/76 peak.

That's what, five HOFers who passed away in the past month? Can 2020 get any worse?

His '75-'76 peak was really something, no 2Bman since then has really come close to his combination of power/speed/patience/defense.

I always thought it ironic how much Morgan hated sabermetrics etc, but as a player he excelled at a lot of the stats that advanced Stats people loved.

indeed

New Favorite Joe Morgan stat I discovered today.

His line in the 1976 NLCS: .000/.462/.000

0-for-7 with 6 BB, 2 SB, 2 R

(And the Reds swept the Phillies)

— Matt Meyers (@mtmeyers) October 12, 2020

As I've mentioned before, I was a huge Reds fan in the early '70s, before the Jays. Between Rose, Morgan, and Bench (not so much Perez), they had an arrogance about them that I'm not sure any baseball team has equaled since. Maybe those '90s Yankees teams, but that felt more like a revolving cast (with a core, true), and there was also the late '80s A's.

Xpost to Thermo

Definitely. His reasoning was that it was his job to set the table so it made sense for him to take a walk, whereas other guys had to drive him in and thus shouldn't be taking walks. I think he understood the value of what he was doing but for him every player has a label that he couldn't escape. Like why can't an RBI guy also work the count? Why can't a middle infielder be a power hitter? He just never got it.

I'm probably one of three living people who's read his autobiography--I bought a remaindered copy for the free baseball card!

http://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/514kY1EQj+L._SX328_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/514kY1EQj+L._SX328_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

Best 2B I ever saw. RIP.

class a greensboro grasshoppers bat dog miss lou lou gehrig, aged 9

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EkOIT3jXYAAkSwE?format=jpg&name=small

goddammit. miss lou :(

Forgot about this, from Ball Four--someone posted it on Facebook.

http://phildellio.tripod.com/mfc.jpg

http://phildellio.tripod.com/mfc.jpg

I don't get that at all...is Tripod blocking images now? Anyway.

http://phildellio.tripod.com/mfc.jpg

Weird...They seem to be blocked on Chrome (along with every poll image I've ever posted on ILX: Neil Young, road films, etc.) but not Explorer.

MLB is deeply saddened by the passing of 34-year Major League Umpire Derryl Cousins at 74. The Californian worked nearly 4,500 games & three World Series ('88, '99, '05). He was behind the plate for the White Sox clincher in '05 & the '08 ASG at Yankee Stadium (pictured below). pic.twitter.com/lSRd89ZsxW

— MLB Communications (@MLB_PR) October 20, 2020

New York Mets fan Bill Weber, 59.

Dr. Morbius (Bill Weber) RIP

Getting the chance to see a Mets game with him was nice. Seeing a Yankees game with him was a highlight of my time in NY because I thought he was going to get us killed.

hahaha

I think I saw more Yankees games than Mets games with him!

so of my closest brushes with death with bill were during the military salutes at mets baseball games at citifield, lol

Ya. Him yelling into their air about brainwashing during god bless America got us some attention.

He invited me to a game when he was in T.O. for the SABR convention, it was the one and only time we met irl. I remember only two things about that game, 1) Bill James sat about three rows directly in front of us (Morbs pointed out a bunch of SABR-celebs from where we were sitting, 2) he was scoring the game and asked me to take over for a few minutes while he went to the bathroom. I hadn't scored a game in years and was so nervous about making a mistake and ruining his Blue Jays Experience. Needless to say, this place won't be the same without him.

Apparently Tommy Lasorda is in p bad shape right now.

tommy sandt, 69

only played 42 big league games but did some managing in the minors and was on jim leyland's staff in pittsburgh, florida and colorado

David Lander has passed away. Many know him as Squiggy in Laverne and Shirley with Michael. He also was an incredible baseball man who was a scout for the Mariners. Always thought his role in League Of Their Own was a perfect fit. #RIP https://t.co/LgGwHbvsnS

— Maury Brown (@BizballMaury) December 5, 2020

dick allen

who might have been elected to the hall of fame yesterday had covid not forced the cancellation of the golden era committee meeting

That's really too bad; should have already been in, of course, so they'll end up with another Ron Santo/Marvin Miller-induction on their hands, a year or two too late.

Rest in power to Dick Allen, underrated slugger and owner of one of the best SI covers ever pic.twitter.com/6OPqs6y6uT

— Jon Tayler, Smiling Politely (@JATayler) December 7, 2020

dude was maybe two more productive years away from the HOF.

Just posted that cover on Facebook--unforgettable (and probably the first thing most people remember about him).

Another instance of how you weight longevity/peak: his rate stats still have him high on some all-time lists (Top 20 in adjusted OPS), and he's at 5.3 WAR per season on Baseball Reference. But, yeah, it's pretty much impossible to get in with fewer than 2,000 hits, unless you're a catcher.

i had never seen that cover! badass. also weird to think about smoking a cig and then running onto the field

i used to play ultimate (tons of running) with a guy that would hammer back a smoke between each quarter and i have no idea how he didn't collapse into a hacking pile.

12 playoff PA in his second-to-last season was it for the post-season; must be high on the list of best players without a WS appearance. (Ignoring position/defense, he was a better hitter than Ernie Banks.)

Rogelio Moret today, too:

https://www.lonestarball.com/2020/12/7/22159957/dick-allen-roger-moret-pass-away-death-mlb

I remember him because he went 14-3 for the famous '75 Red Sox team (also 13-2 for the '73 team). But I have no recollection of this (from Wikipedia): "His career ended in 1978 in bizarre fashion. Scheduled to be the starting pitcher against the Detroit Tigers on April 12, Moret was spotted in the Ranger locker room in a catatonic state, with his arm extended holding a slipper. He was unresponsive to examiners, and was immediately taken to a psychiatric facility and placed on the disabled list. He appeared in only six more games after the bizarre incident."

Allen wanted to be called Dick, writers insisted on calling him Richie; I'm guessing Moret preferred Rogelio to Roger.

Goose Gossage on Allen in 2014: "He's the greatest player I've ever seen play in my life. He had the most amazing season (1972) I've ever seen. He's the smartest baseball man I've ever been around in my life. He taught me how to pitch from a hitter's perspective, and taught me how to play the game, and how to play the game right. There's no telling the numbers this guy could have put up if all he worried about was stats."

we're gonna have to talk about bill james vs dick allen at some point; might as well get it out now

I know he was very anti-Allen in the first Historical Abstract; didn't he recant that later on?

Checked the revised Historical Abstract; he didn't, just tempered his criticism with a shorter entry. Which amounts to, by not going along to get along, Allen destroyed his career. In terms of Allen's career, he's right. In terms of Allen's role as a person in the world, in terms of honor and integrity, and in terms of how Allen will be remembered, he's 1000% wrong.

https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/reckoning-with-dick-allen-1942-2020

former minor leaguer charley pride, 86

phil niekro, 81

seventh hall of famer to die this year

that's as many as the last four years combined.

tommy lasorda, 93

TIL he was basically the same age (2 months older) as Vin Scully.

a true master of the fuckin language of baseball

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rUy9FmzsxY

Kurt Bevacqua! Last hit ever off Jim Bouton. (Not sure if that was MLB or the minors, and it may have been before Bouton's late-'70s comeback.)

Someone's death is the time to say something nice, so: while I hated Lasorda's rah-rah cheerleading while he was active, the one time I appreciated him was some interview I saw during the '94 strike, when he seemed, to me, truly and poignantly distraught by what was happening.

don sutton

2020 can stop any minute now.

17 seasons of at least 2.0 bWAR

Biggest of all.

https://www.bleachernation.com/cubs/2021/01/22/hank-aaron-has-passed-away/

monumental

RIP Hank Aaron

It's been said a million times before, but his level of consistency was something. He never had a season of 10+ WAR like Mays and Ruth and Bonds, but starting in 1955, his second season, and carrying through to 1971, when he was 37, he had an almost unbroken string of years between 6.0-10.0. The only year that fell short was 1970. That was an offensive boom year, so he would have been downgraded a bit for that, but in 1970 he hit 38 HR, knocked in 118, and had a slash line of .298/.385/.574--and that, as measured by bWAR, was his worst season. (Never struck out 100 times in a season.)

still jarring seeing random fans rush him when he was rounding the bases on his 715th after all the death threats he'd been getting

I'll never forget those two teenagers (both white) who circled the bases with him. Aaron has said he was convinced they were there to kill him. They were just excited!

Probably an easy question by now, but do you remember who caught 715?

^otm to both of those posts^

i mostly know him through his stats. i've watched a few old games in which he played or appeared (like all-star games), but wish i would of had a chance to just sit at a game and watch what guys like him do in between plays, in the dugout, with fellow players and the like. but yes, a model of consistent high-level performance (and durability, it seems), just unbelievable.

sorry, xp to mookie's post and clemenza's above that

yeah he was a bit before my time, so i only know him as a legend. and the stats are just . . . we're in here arguing about bobby abreu and scott rolen and aaron was like both of them put together with room left over

tbh i think i first learned about what he went through via snoopy: http://wezen-ball.com/2009-articles/a-rod-aaron-and-snoopy.html

Those two guys always crack me up:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjqYThEVoSQ

I thought 715 was his first swing of the season, but it wasn't. There's some story there involving four-pitch walk beforehand--maybe 714 was his first.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.fcgi?id=aaronha01&t=b&year=1974

the nyt obituary is excellent, with a heavy slant towards his experiences with racism. a towering figure, who apparently never liked being called "hank." so r.i.p. henry aaron, a true all-time great.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/22/sports/baseball/hank-aaron-dead.html

using first names that '60s black baseball players didn't like seems to have been a thing, wonder what that's about

I knew about Clemente's and Dick Allen's pushback, but I didn't know Aaron shared that. I've always called him Hank, but I'll change that. Weird that the Times wouldn't amend their headline!

hard to reverse 60+ years of sports page colloquialism

Clemenza, the WaPo obit has your answer:

The Dodgers’ pitcher was left-hander Al Downing, who wore the same uniform number as Mr. Aaron, 44. On a 1-0 count, Downing threw a slider that caught too much of the plate, and Mr. Aaron unloaded a blast that carried over the head of Dodgers left fielder Bill Buckner and into the Braves’ bullpen, where it was caught by relief pitcher Tom House.

RIP Hank Aaron.

That's it. It's a great trivia answer--I think he rode that small bit of fame for the rest of his career and many years beyond as a coach. (Highly respected, I think.) I was reading his Wikipedia page and never knew this: "House has admitted to using anabolic steroids in the 1970s making him one of the earliest players to admit to using performance-enhancing drugs...House has stated that 'six or seven' pitchers on every major league staff in the 1970s were 'fiddling' with steroids or human growth hormone." He even tweeted today:

Hank Aaron changed my life. The greatest moment I ever got to be a part of was catching 715. That moment bonded us forever as friends and teammates. My heart hurts today to learn of his passing. We watched Hank shrug off the weight of the world and just keep swinging.

I was at a Jays vs Braves game in T.O. and Aaron was honoured in a special ceremony before the game. That was the only time I "saw" him. Where can you even start with Aaron? He was the very definition of an inner circle HOF. I have never heard a bad word spoken about him. He was the model of consistency, excellence, and grace under pressure. Why did it take 25 years (after his retirement) to name an award after this guy?

Until Bonds (who had a nice tweet today) came along, Aaron's 1973 season was my frame of reference for preternaturally great old-guy seasons. 40 HR in 392 AB for a 39-year-old? It was like science-fiction. And that was the heyday of all those future 300-game winners: Seaver, Carlton, Niekro, and Sutton were all active in the NL.

This is great!.

I want to find a similar piece now on the two people holding up the sign on the back of Kiss's Alive!.

https://www.mlb.com/news/us-presidents-remember-hank-aaron

Every living president...almost.

i haven't heard a word from trump since he fucked off, and i want to keep that going as long as possible

otm

For sure. I have to admit, I love how the five of them will be making the other one look bad without even trying.

utility man ron johnson, 64

played 22 games over three seasons with the royals and expos in the early '80s, then won 1752 games over 24 seasons as a minor league manager. he was the red sox's bench coach in 2010-2011

damn, wrong Ron Johnson. RIP utility man ron johnson

he was the red sox's bench coach in 2010-2011

first base coach according to Youkilis' tribute.

covid, btw

grant jackson, 78. winner of game seven of the 1979 world series

I remember him as part of the great Orioles '71 staff. (Don't hate me: '79 was my first year at university--don't think I watched an inning of the '79 Series!)

ESPN remembers SportsCenter reporter Pedro Gomez, who passed away unexpectedly today at the age of 58.https://t.co/0Q75PlBEvG pic.twitter.com/4B5r7OG9Ni

— ESPN PR (@ESPNPR) February 8, 2021

ugh that sucks, always liked him ever since he was on the barry bonds beat

joe altobelli, 88

Ray Miller, former Orioles manager and longtime pitching coach, dies https://t.co/votxYjQtE7

— Baltimore Sun Sports (@BaltSunSports) May 5, 2021

Mookie must have missed this: Rennie Stennett.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/31467032/former-pittsburgh-pirates-second-baseman-rennie-stennett-loses-battle-cancer-age-72

First thing I thought of was "lost his job to Willie Randolph," but he actually drew MVP votes in a couple of seasons.

Did I ever have that backwards...Randolph was only with the Pirates for one season. Stennett was why they traded him away, part of the Dock for Doc trade.

Fading 45-year-old memories...I think I have it straight now. Without checking again, the Pirates had Dave Cash at second base, he goes to the Phillies, then they're left with two promising young guys, and they picked the wrong one (albeit a good player).

i did miss that about rennie stennett, thanks

Sad report: Cy Young winner and pitching iconoclast Mike Marshall of the Dodgers has passed away at 78, according to @Think_BlueLA. https://t.co/BWccBx8iNi

— Jon Weisman (@jonweisman) June 1, 2021

What a character--one of the many reasons to read Ball Four. (Probably no one in the book garnered as much respect from Bouton.) I remember his Cy Young season very well, or at least the commotion over whether or not he'd pitch in 100 games. (Same year as the commotion over Lou Brock and the SB record; we loved to count things then, and we especially loved the number 100.) By WAR, Niekro should have won the Cy going away; compared to some of the other relief CYs given out, though, he wasn't the worst pick ever. His best years were his last two with the Expos.

Actually, his best year came later with the Twins.

jim ‘mudcat’ grant, 85

According to a MLB source former #Astros star JR Richard passed away last night in a Houston hospital at the age of 71. JR played for the Astros from 1971-1980. Led the National League in strikeouts in 1978 & 1979. Led the NL in ERA in 1979 and made the All-Star Team in 1980.

— Mark Berman (@MarkBermanFox26) August 5, 2021

Sad story.

covid-related, I see.

Bill Freehan, 1968 World Series champion and 11-time all-star

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/mlb/tigers/2021/08/19/bill-freehan-detroit-tigers-dies-alzheimers-disease/511651001/

One of my coaches played with him and a bunch of friends/ex-teammates/adversaries played for him (all at Michigan). Seemed beloved without exception.

Bill James responding to a question about him today: "He was pretty obviously the best catcher of the 1960s, he is a reasonable Hall of Fame candidate, and that team should have won several more pennants, at least." My dad and I drove in to see a couple of Tigers' games in the mid-'70s, so there's a chance I saw him play.

Just saw the news that Ray Fosse passed away..I’m so sorry & give my deepest condolences to Carol and the family..Ray was always incredibly kind to me..he was a good supportive friend..he loved his family deeply..his impact on Bay Area baseball will be forever..RIP my friend

— Marty Lurie (@baseballmarty) October 14, 2021

Immortal for one play.

https://miro.medium.com/max/1050/1*PzLL51AcRkDaAECOvjqGzg.jpeg

that is a remarkable baseball photo

Lot of recent deaths of players I knew as a young kid with baseball cards of the 70s.

Leo Durocher as 3rd base coach in that shot.

Dude played with Babe Ruth, member of the Gas House Gang and was manager in the Bobby Thompson game...that is a pretty Zelig moment him being in that picture.

Kinda wild...

oh wow, didn't realize that was durocher as the 3B coach! that does elevate the pic, damn

rip jerry remy

pretty sad about this

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/41Rro3LpXCL._AC_.jpg

Being more of a NL baseball fan as a kid, seeing the Red Sox or their local broadcasts was never really an option except on an occasional Saturday game or perhaps when they played the White Sox on WGN.

Jerry Remy does have a bit of a point to me as a childhood baseball fan though as his card was the last one I needed to find to complete my first full set of Topps cards in the 1980 set. I searched high and low and no one had this card forever. I don't think I ever found it until after the 81' strike. This was a set that I mostly put together the old fashioned way pack by pack as there wasn't until a year or so later we started to have a local flea market that would have people selling cards. But even then, this 'common' was impossible to find. It was like finding 'excalibur' when I finally found one.

RIP Mr. Remy.

Too young.

The MLBPAA is deeply saddened to hear about the passing of 12-year MLB veteran, Julio Lugo. Our thoughts and prayers are with Julio's loved ones. pic.twitter.com/hrQYJzjHWh

— MLBPAA (@MLBPAA) November 15, 2021

jeez

Ed Lucas, Blind Baseball Chronicler, Is Dead at 82

Sightless since 12, he became a baseball columnist and a radio reporter. He had a unique ability to know where a ball was hit by the sound of the crack of the bat.

Heartbroken about the passing of one of the kindest, funniest men to have worn a Cleveland uniform. Doug Jones spent 7 of his 16 big-league seasons in Cleveland, ranking 3rd all-time in saves and a 3X All-Star. Deepest sympathy to his family and all his teammates. pic.twitter.com/BtwVcylm79

— Bob DiBiasio (@BDbaseball6) November 22, 2021

bill virdon, 90. 1955 NL ROY, pirate CF for ten years, and later a two-time manager of the year

RIP Fleece

Something I'd forgotten and was just reminded of: Virdon hit the bad-hop grounder in the 7th game of the '60 World Series (Mazeroski's HR) that may or may not have curtailed Tony Kubek's career.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQeawXYw1ZY

The White Sox send our thoughts and condolences to the family and friends of LaMarr Hoyt, who passed away on Monday in Columbia, S.C. following a lengthy illness. The 1983 A.L. Cy Young Award winner was 66.

— Chicago White Sox (@whitesox) December 1, 2021

Such a vintage old-school Cy Young pick. Won because he won 24 games; Stieb won 17, was much, much better, didn't get a single vote. (One stat where Hoyt was ahead of the curve was his K/BB ratio, almost 5.00 because of his great control.) Remember him as engagingly gruff, or unkempt, or something along those lines.

The "Winning Ugly" Sox, I think.

One of five Padres starters on the 85 NL all-star team. RIP!

great real baseball name

Kimera Bartee

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/32917710/detroit-tigers-first-base-coach-kimera-bartee-dies-age-49

Going back to LaMarr Hoyt for a second, had no idea that he was part of the trade in '77 (along with Oscar Gamble, a minor-leaguer, and money) that brought Bucky Dent to New York.

Betty White with Steve Bilko #RIPBettyWhite pic.twitter.com/XDcNNBxMe1

— Baseball In Pics (@baseballinpix) December 31, 2021

We mourn the loss of Gene Clines, who spent parts of three decades in the Cubs organization as a player, first base coach and hitting coach. He was a World Series champion with the Pirates in 1971.

Sending love to his family and friends. 💙 pic.twitter.com/xaB6TdOZqV

— Chicago Cubs (@Cubs) January 27, 2022

We are saddened to learn about the recent passing of former Cardinals outfielder and World Series Champion, David Green.

Our thoughts are with his family and friends during this difficult time. pic.twitter.com/ieFVLIorM4

— St. Louis Cardinals (@Cardinals) February 1, 2022

I remember him, he was pretty good--don't know why he had such a short career. Looked up his Wikipedia entry, and he got his first MLB hit off Luis Tiant. His death was COVID-related.

“Gerald Williams passed away this morning after a battle with cancer. To my teammate and one of my best friends in the world, rest in peace, my brother. My thoughts and prayers are with his wife, Liliana, and their whole family.” —Derek Jeter pic.twitter.com/mVoaZ8BPrP

— The Players' Tribune (@PlayersTribune) February 8, 2022

Horrible news: Jeremy Giambi passed away today at his parents’ home in Southern California, according to his agent, Joel Wolfe. Jason and the family request that their privacy be respected during this difficult time.

— Ken Rosenthal (@Ken_Rosenthal) February 9, 2022

Woah. Dude was only 47!

I just stopped on Moneyball for a few minutes the other day, the scene where got lectured in the clubhouse and then traded right after.

i just read about Jeremy Giambi and way too young to die, RIP. he should have slid at home.

Thermo Thinwall new Spoon tomorrow, are you excited?

I wish I could say I was - but it’s been a rough couple years.
But if it’s good, I’ll be quite pleasantly surprised. If it sucks, just another thing for the pile.

it's pretty good

So why I brought it up, he did the images for the Spoon poll and I haven't seen him around ILM

Sorry about your situation and I'm also hoping that 2022 is a better year

Baseball coming back sure would be a great help

ILM turned into a pretty negative place for me. stopped posting there for a while.

which reminds me – i should start a certain thread!

Odalis Perez, 44. Fell from a ladder.

(Sheesh.)

Tommy Davis

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/33670296/tommy-davis-2-nl-batting-champion-los-angles-dodgers-dies-83

roger angell (101!)

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/20/sports/roger-angell-dead.html

rip

i want to read his 1975 piece on steve blass (which i just read about, in an obituary). i didn't realize Blass got the yips, and i'd love to see what Angell had to say about that.

rip

steve blass disease!

Dwight Smith, very young:

https://www.tsn.ca/world-series-winning-outfielder-dwight-smith-dead-at-58-1.1828287

Still remember Jerome Walton and Smith 1-2 in ROY voting.

Look at Jerome Walton '94-98: limited playing time, but maybe another why-did-he-retire guy.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/waltoje01.shtml

We are deeply saddened by the passing of former Met John Stearns. https://t.co/Bxh4o8rY4V pic.twitter.com/L860TPMU6j

— New York Mets (@Mets) September 16, 2022

Former stolen base king and '62 MVP Maury Wills.

Pretty significant death. It doesn't make sense by modern metrics (39.6 career bWAR), but I know he still has passionate HOF advocates. He and Wes Parker were basically the focus of an excellent book I read last year on the great '60s Dodgers teams, The Last Innocents.

Bruce Sutter:

https://www.mlb.com/news/bruce-sutter-dies

One of the more tenuous HOF picks of recent times, but he definitely was dominant for two or three seasons.

Expecially '77: 6.5 bWAR for a closer.

Especially, even.

i'm less amazed by his hall induction than by his *five* top-10 MVP finishes

The pendulum on the value of closers has swung back and forth two or three times during my years as a fan; Sutter and the late '70s was a peak, the late '80s were a peak, then again whenever Gagne won his Cy Young.

rip bruce sutter. some of my first memories are of him pumping his fist and then catching and holding darrell porter as the catcher jumped into his arms. it was on a tape, a 1982 cardinals VHS, which was on constant rotation at my grandpa's when i was little, years afterward

i was just a kid, but when i first got into baseball he was *the* reliever, and basically (to my knowledge) created the split-fingered fastball

(turns out that with the plastic-coated balls they use through little league, i too could make that pitch dive! but then when we moved back to 60.5 and used leather balls, much less so)

would've been cooler if he'd been a member of hockey's sutter family tho

Closers used to get such a disproportionate amount of MVP consideration, when taking their actual value into account. Not that Sutter wasn’t a really good one, of course.

I will say that for me his most memorable moment was giving up two home runs to Ryne Sandberg in the game that basically made the latter a superstar.

I was just checking the 1984 AL MVP ballot: five pitchers finished, with closers Willie Hernandez winning and Quisenberry finishing third. Stieb (always a bridesmaid) finished tied for 22nd, with Boddicker at #25, and Doyle Alexander tied for 27th with Ripken, whose bWAR of 10.01(!) led MLB.

I would watch a 30 for 30 on that ballot

Willie appeared in 80 games and pitched 140.1 innings so he wasn’t exactly a Gagne.

The exclusively one inning closer wasn't a thing until the 90's. In Sutter's prime they would pitch more than 100 innings. In his CY-winning season he had 9.8K/9IP when the league average was probably around 5.

If anything I think Sutter's HOF case has looked stronger since he was elected, seeing how 300 saves has become even rarer and so many top relievers flame out after a few years.

Yeah true dat. Who was the last reliever to compile 100 IP in a season exclusively from relief outings?

When I was a kid it seemed like Sutter was a Cardinal forever and his Cubs years were just a blip. But he was only in St Louis four seasons, and compiled most of his HOF cred in Chicago.

Gaylord Perry

What an amazing character. Obviously underscores the disconnect when it comes to keeping PED guys out of the HOF. One of the very first things I ever got caught up in as a fan was his '72 season, which is probably still one of the top 15-20 seasons for a starting pitcher in the past 50 years (10.8 bWAR and the Cy Young for a 72-84 Cleveland team).

Wow--actually 6th best, behind Gooden in '85 (12.2), Carlton in '72 (12.1), Clemens in '97 (11.9), Wilbur Wood (!) in '71 (11.8), and Pedro in 2000 (11.7).

Mind blown: Perry tried to hide George Brett's bat in the pine tar game! He was stopped and later ejected.

Perry was one of the great old men of MLB, like Niekro or Hough. I mean they looked like old men when playing.

weirdly Jamie Moyer didn’t despite lasting longer — it trips me out to see that he’s 60 years old now

RIP Gaylord Perry, it's been a terrible two days for deaths.

https://www.mlb.com/video/gaylord-perry-dies-at-age-84?partnerId=web_video-playback-page_video-share

RIP Curt Simmons

Famous quote usually attributed to Simmons: "Trying to throw a baseball by Hank Aaron is like trying to sneak the sunrise past a rooster." (Posnanski says he's also seen the quote attributed to other players talking about someone other than Aaron.)

tom browning, who threw the reds’ only perfect game, 62

https://i.imgur.com/s76ckOb.png

https://nowtakingthefield.substack.com/p/the-baseball-rip-roster-for-2022

frank thomas (not that one, but another famous one)

RIP Frank Thomas.
Born in 1929 in Pittsburgh, played for the Pirates from 1951-58 (three-time All-Star here), blasted 286 homers over 16 seasons in the majors. pic.twitter.com/OBXhES0Trj

— RobBiertempfel (@RobBiertempfel) January 16, 2023

also, journeyman ted savage, who just missed being part of the cardinals WS winning teams in '64 and '67

He just had a stroke aiui

four-time all-star 3B and brewers GM sal bando, 78

I don't know if you can say he was underrated in his day, because he did get a lot of attention and MVP support in the early '70s--finished in the Top 4 three times--but Reggie and Vida Blue and Catfish Hunter and maybe even Fingers got more, and he didn't even draw 1% of the vote in his one year on the HOF ballot. Good chance I saw him play in July of '69 when we were in Anaheim, though I can't pin down the game.

I knew who he was because of the reputation of those 70's A's teams, but didn't realize how good his career was until I checked his stats just now.

The 1987 HOF vote was a weird one, with no slam dunk candidates, I sense a lot of apathy on the part of the voters. Bando has the 4th highest WAR of the 28 candidates who received votes, and he finished 26th.

I didn't look at the top of that ballot--in the year he got 0.7% (3/413 ballots), two ex-teammates went in, Billy Williams and Catfish Hunter (both, as you say, with soft support).

Catfish was kinda the Dave Stewart of his time (albeit better at his best), a very good pitcher who pitched for some great teams and racked up so many wins over a short period of time. His best seasons was actually his last w Oakland and first w NY. Beyond that, two more seasons w a bWAR above 3. Might have earned that HOF spot for more meritorious reasons if he wasn’t done as a good pitcher at 30.

He makes sense in the context of his times, not in retrospect, from an analytical standpoint. With 36.3 bWAR, and I bet even lower on Fangraphs, he's obviously not even close to the HOF bar. In his day, though, there were the five straight 20-win seasons, 4/3/1/2 in CY voting, the four WS titles with the A's/Yankees (his post-season record is good), the perfect game, the huge free-agent contract (one of the first), and--again, back then--definite mystique. So I get it, as I think anyone who watched baseball at the time does.

I'm always more impressed by some of the votes the writers somehow got intuitively right. The first one I think of is the 1965 AL MVP: I was puzzled for years by the Zolio Versalles MVP ("but he only hit .273!"), but bWAR does show him as the best position player in the league. (Sam McDowell's a little higher.) Another one--if you put aside pitchers--is the '85 NL MVP. I think even James mocked Willie McGee winning, arguing that Dale Murphy was clearly more valuable, but McGee was indeed the best position player in the league by bWAR, well ahead of Murphy. (Not even close to Gooden, mind you...)

Sal Bando, on the other hand, got screwed by the time he was up for the HOF. Which, again, is strange seeing as how probably many of the same voters gave him lots of MVP support.

Bando’s bWAR is amazing considering how relatively brief his full-time career was. His chances were probably diminished by playing a lot during a pitchers’ era. But for all the sabermetrics chatter about a third baseman like Darrell Evans being one of the underrated greats, Sal might fit that description even more.

Bando was well respected in his prime, as Clem pointed out, he drew decent support in MVP voting. I'd compare him to a George Springer type of player -- a very good player but not quite a star, who will get some downballot support, and produces in the big moments. You absolutely need a couple of players like that to contend year after year. But nobody thinks of him as a HOFer, and he doesn't end up with the flashy round numbers for his career that HOF voters like.

yeah, he's an interesting case i guess, though not quite getting there, despite a 56.6 bWAR from '69-'78. he's a guy who'd maybe be a reputable HOFer due to that peak value. But he was still a solid tier below for example Rolen, and a couple below Santo.

He was arguably the best 3B in the game for a brief window, but then Schmidt, Brett, and to a lesser extent Nettles were really just much better throughout the '70s. He'd have needed another 4-5 years and he'd have a better case (he'd likely have gone the Santo route tho.)

looking at that 70's Athletics team, it's crazy how similar Vida Blue and Catfish Hunter were; yet only one is in the Hall (neither really should be imho). Blue has actually a stronger case (and not just through modern metrics), really – only difference maker I think is Hunter played for the Yankees...

Hunter: 3.26 ERA, 224 wins, 2012 Ks, 36.3 WAR, Cy Young, ERA crown, 8x all star, 5x world series
Blue: 3.27 ERA, 209 wins, 2175 Ks, 44.9 WAR, Cy Young, ERA crown, 6x all star, 3x world series AND an MVP award.

blue has a much stronger case, but he didn't have a cool nickname. big mistake on his part. they both seem like casualties of having to throw way too many innings in their 20s

catfish had 5 seasons in a row of the magical 20 Wins, that must have helped as well. fangraph's interpretation of "value" (based on FIP) is notable with his 1973 season. hunter went 21-5 with a 3.34 ERA over 256 IP. his fWAR, though, was just over replacement, at 0.5 fWAR. his ERA was way below his FIP, which was 4.40. Oakland's defense must have been pretty great that year...

Catfish Hunter had two things that are sure to get solidly above-average/usually not-amazing pitchers into the HOF: a nickname and a great mustache. not a beard (Blyleven rule) it has to be a bushy stache. i'll die on the hill that a clean-shaven Jack Morris is one-and-done on the HOF ballot. Someone should have advised Rick Reuschel to keep his mustache and make it really really bushy.

Vida Blue is a really cool name, though. Didn't have to dress it up. Much cooler than Jim Hunter.

I don't know if Blue's drug issues figured into that or not. He thought so: "I had some issues in my life that might have had a tendency to sway voting. There are some guys in the Hall of Fame who don’t have halos." His holdout in '72 was a huge story at the time: didn't start his season until May 24--big surprise, I think Finley really screwed him--and didn't get a postseason start until the sixth game of the WS. Glad to know he's 73 and still alive.

When Time magazine put baseball players on the cover (I assume they haven't in some time):

https://content.time.com/time/magazine/archive/covers/1971/1101710823_400.jpg

he seems like a good candidate for the Veterans Committee to revisit at some point. not saying it's deserved (he's a peak-value HOF guy but that was a brief and scattered peak), but i could see it.

https://i.imgur.com/zg7OkFL.jpg

Wow, missed that...I was going to say that it looks like the Red Sox winning in '04 was the last MLB Time cover, but I guess this is incomplete. (Rod Carew!)

https://time.com/vault/subject/baseball/

it's funny how 2 of the last 3 baseball-related covers (according to that link) are both about how playing baseball on elite youth teams is bad, and they both feature maybe the least-flattering possible photos of the kid

1999 kid is swinging at a pitch 15 feet outside

2017 kid's hands are about to sting as he weakly fouls off into the third base dugout

only difference maker I think is Hunter played for the Yankees.

During Hunter's prime though, the Yankees had lost their mystique. The A's were the cool, fun, and successful team with larger than life stars sporting nifty mustaches. He was there for the Yanks' '77 and '78 WS wins, but he was done as a star player.

Hunter was elected to the HOF thanks to 1) a great nickname and mustache combo, 2) winning 20 games in five consecutive years, 3) being one of the youngest pitchers ever to reach 200 wins, 4) being a key player on the A's three-peat (they're still the only non-Yankees team ever to do it).

Putting aside analytics, the A.L. '74 Cy Young field has to be the apex of the '70s workhorse era (the DH probably contributed):

1. Hunter - 25-12, 318.1 IP
2. Jenkins - 25-12, 328.1 IP
3. Ryan - 22-16, 332.2 IP
4. Perry - 21-13, 322.1 IP
4. Tiant - 22-13, 311.1 IP

sad to hear this

We mourn the passing of Tim McCarver, an All-Star catcher and decorated baseball broadcaster for generations of fans. He was 81. https://t.co/af8eb0Yyuf pic.twitter.com/6P9LLlDMJD

— MLB (@MLB) February 16, 2023

i've been reading october 1964. good insight in to mccarver as a player.

He was prickly, but I always liked him in the booth. Saw him as a player on the downside of his career, don't remember much, but he caught Gibson and Carlton in their primes, and that's something.

https://i.postimg.cc/hPzN6dNc/32179165-B76-C-490-B-B2-F8-D66-B0-ACE9-A3-A.jpg

Every time I read about pitchers and catchers this quote comes up again and again.

another tim mccarver quote - i'm sure there's a million different slightly different versions of it because he would tell this story pretty much any time bob gibson came up during a broadcast:

“I remember one time going to mound to talk with Bob Gibson. He told me to get back behind the batter; that the only thing I knew about pitching was that it was hard to hit.”

first encountered him alongside ralph kiner (basically insane) and steve zabriskie (utterly straight) doing mets games on WOR in the eighties -- and he was honestly good, unlike his later cardinals/national broadcast persona

also he seemed like a really decent guy. rip

I only knew him from the national broadcasts. He was definitely an old school colour commentator much like Joe Morgan was, relying on his wit and intuition about the game to tell a story. I enjoyed listening to him for the most part.

I hadn't realized that he had a 20-plus year career as a player. He played in four decades!

lol, i missed this 2013 all-star game moment from mccarver. very hard to explain

This will always be remembered as the moment Tim McCarver crossed over into legendary status — hands down #STLCards pic.twitter.com/zaEkdf0313

— 𝙰𝚗𝚍𝚛𝚎𝚠 𝚆𝚎𝚊𝚟𝚎𝚛 | 🗺 (@drewmaniac) February 16, 2023

(xpost) As a player, I always group him in my mind with Bob Boone and Jim Sundberg, although the other two are much closer in terms of timeline and being mostly about defense.

(kramer voice) joe pepitone!

I literally just read the part in Ball Four where they prank him by putting talc in his hairdryer so when he blow dries his wig after a game he looks like George Washington.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vqJ-WSC-QI

I think I've got this right: it's him in Ball Four who puts a piece of popcorn under his foreskin and tells the trainer he's got some new form of VD...As flakes go, he sounded like one the greatest--he was near the end when I started watching.

rip dick groat, 8-time all-star, 1960 NL MVP, 2-time WS champ

Hobie Landrith, first Met, last week or so, i think

Vida Blue!

We mourn the passing of Vida Blue, a Cy Young, MVP and three-time World Series winner. He was 73. pic.twitter.com/dTJScoMstO

— MLB (@MLB) May 7, 2023

damn, a guy with hall of fame talent but not quite enough of a career to get in there. dominant during his relatively brief career though, kinda like ron guidry in that respect.

and one of the best names of all time

As I've mentioned many times, my fandom began in 1970, so his '71 season looms so large for me: one of those things that you spend the rest of your life measuring everything else against. (Everything baseball...I think.) Greatest season (eclipsed by Gooden and a few others since), greatest name, greatest decade, greatest everything.

All in all, underrated after that, in that '71 was an albatross he could never duplicate, plus the holdout, plus the drug issue, plus the itinerant nature of his career. For his career, his numbers are probably better than at least a few pitchers in the HOF.

Vida Blue was awesome, RIP. Loved hearing him talk too.

There's a decent argument for him being in the HOF and sometimes I think briefer peak value types like him really belong. That's more in line with what the NBA and NFL halls do. I know the MLB HOF loves longevity though.

The other thing he has going against him besides what I mentioned was pitching in a pitcher's era--not to the degree the '60s were, but his old-school stats only leave him with 45 bWAR after adjustments. Plus he's surrounded on all sides by 300-game winners like Seaver, Carlton, Perry, Niekro, and Sutton, and also legends like Gibson, Marichal, Palmer, and others.

Looking at his '71 game log is amazing:

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.fcgi?id=bluevi01&t=p&year=1971

He made a DeGrom like run at Gibson that year (without going down). His ERA was 1.03 after his May 23 start (12th), and he was still at 1.37 as late as July 25. He tailed off a bit after that and ended up with 1.82.

Lots of other eye-opening stuff in there, like six consecutive CG more than once.

Thought he moved around more than he actually did: only three teams (two stints in San Francisco). That's not many in the free-agent era. (His '72 holdout, where--surprise--Finley railroaded him into coming back should get more credit than it does in ending the reserve clause.)

Posnanski on Vida, with a nice tweet from Fergie Jenkins:

https://open.substack.com/pub/joeposnanski/p/blue-monday?r=1jtu0&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email

Reminded me of how close his career numbers were to Catfish Hunter's.

roger craig, 93

Last words, as he sat at home watching the A's: "Can't anybody here play this game?"

People you thought were 80 years old already when his team humiliated yours in the 1989 NLCS

He had been in ill health for some time aiui

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/419Yf4Bi7WL._AC_UL600_SR600,600_.jpg

Enjoyed this book as a young Tigers fan. (Shout-out to scott pl.)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F1mlG0PXgAIHZDF.jpg:small

We mourn the passing of Jim Price, a treasured member of the Tigers organization for decades.

He spent all five years of his playing career wearing the Olde English ‘D’, including the 1968 World Series championship season.

— Detroit Tigers (@tigers) August 8, 2023

A Statement from the Robinson Family and the Orioles:

“We are deeply saddened to share the news of the passing of Brooks Robinson. An integral part of our Orioles Family since 1955, he will continue to leave a lasting impact on our club, our community, and the sport of…

— Baltimore Orioles (@Orioles) September 26, 2023

Ah happy trails

Just heard that. He was something else in the '70 Series.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_XHZbhR9qc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6FkSuRWZtA

Apparently he was left-handed, and did everything left-handed, except bat and throw

Jim Palmer said Brooks "never had a bad day in his life"

Thanks for the videos, clemenza. Wild to see video of that time. Great play

Jim Palmer reflects on the legacy of Brooks Robinson. pic.twitter.com/2UlvMt5gBd

— Orioles on MASN (@masnOrioles) September 26, 2023

Nice clip. I'm going by memory here--and will feel silly if I'm wrong (can't seem to find confirmation online)--but I think Ken Burns used "Theme from Shaft" for the segment on Robinson and the '70s Series. He cheated by a year, but it was great. Clemente and Santana's "Oye Como Va" for the '71 Series was a perfect match; Robinson and "Shaft" was a brilliant contrast.

jim palmer is in awfully good shape for a guy who'll turn 78 in a couple weeks

Sorry, forgot this thread existed for a moment.

Our hearts are broken with the loss of Tim Wakefield.

Wake embodied true goodness; a devoted husband, father, and teammate, beloved broadcaster, and the ultimate community leader. He gave so much to the game and all of Red Sox Nation.

Our deepest love and thoughts are with… pic.twitter.com/ah5kV2Yt8j

— Red Sox (@RedSox) October 1, 2023

Highly recommend Knuckleball, about his quest for his 200th win but really about this small fraternity of four or five people who account for almost everyone in the world who knows how to throw that pitch well. They golf together, keep in touch, and mentor Wakefield.

rip The Young Knuckleballer

went to see him do a rehab start for the carolina mudcats in 1993, but he ended up being scratched. andy van slyke was there rehabbing tho

classic pirates move to waive a guy who would win 186 games and put up 33 bWAR elsewhere. always rooted for him ;_;

Tim Wakefield, Knuckleballer Extraordinaire pic.twitter.com/QElTCrnSMT

— Codify (@CodifyBaseball) October 1, 2023

For those that didn’t notice, George Kirby threw a first-pitch knuckleball to Corey Seager for a swing and miss. Statcast had it as a splitter, but Kirby has been threatening to throw his knuckleball once in a game.

— Ryan Divish (@RyanDivish) October 1, 2023

This Mike Timlin-Tim Wakefield video from the 2007 World Series resonates even more now. Seemed like the absolute best teammate you could have. pic.twitter.com/4A3hx6nEIi

— Mike Cole (@MikeColeNESN) October 1, 2023

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZf9UeZa4uA

I'm sure many of you have read this before, but it's well worth a re-read in the aftermath of Wakefield's death. By my lights this is the best oral history about any baseball event ever: The Doug Mirabelli trade.

https://tht.fangraphs.com/the-doug-mirabelli-trade-an-oral-history/

baseball writer jim caple, who i used to enjoy reading back in the espn page 2 days and again years later at the athletic

thanks for posting that, tracer hand!

Great read.

Loved watching (and imitating) him.

Hondo, one of the legendary guys from my youth:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/mlb/article-12690331/Frank-Howard-Washington-Senators-dies-87-MLB.html

It's not so much how many HR he hit--under 400 for his career, reached 40+ three times--as when he hit them: 44 in '68 (with a slugging pct. of .552), when pitchers dominated like no year since the 1910s, and 48 in '69, which was wasn't as extreme but still pitching-dominated. And he was huge (standing next to Mantle here).

https://ladodgertalk.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/gettyimages-52909635-612x612-1.jpg

"His coming-out party came in May 1968, when, during a stretch of 20 at-bats, Howard blasted 10 home runs. It still stands as the record for most home runs hit in one week."

https://www.mlb.com/news/frank-howard-dies

Little bit in Posnanski's post today about how much Ted Williams brought Frank Howard around as a hitter.

Then in 1969, the team hired their new manager, a guy named Ted Williams, and it’s utterly REMARKABLE how much that changed Frank Howard as a hitter. Up to that point, he was a wild free swinger with a .336 lifetime on-base percentage. Under Williams, he immediately cut down the strikeouts and doubled the walks; that year he hit .296/.402/.574 with those career-high 48 homers. The next year, he led the league with 132 walks. Ted Williams was a famously ineffective manager for many reasons, but Frank Howard would always say he made him a great hitter and he would lament not playing for Ted when he was young.

Peter Seidler, grandson of Wally O'Malley, owner/controlling partner of SDP from 2012-2023.

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/padres/story/2023-11-14/padres-chairman-peter-seidler-passes-away

Whoa

The Padres are super fucked, jeez

Werehavingafiresale.gif

Willie Hernandez, 1984 CY and MVP winner.

Wow. One of the great then vs. now seasons when tracing historical attitudes towards closers and how they're used. His '84 vs. Felix Bautista's 2023:

WH - 140.1 IP, 1.92 ERA, 3.1 WAR, Cy Young + MVP
FB - 61 IP, 1.48 ERA, 3.0 WAR, 11th-place for the Cy (one 5th-place vote), 0 MVP votes

(Weirdly enough, similar W-L records: Hernandez 9-3, Bautista 8-2.)

Like one of those Academy Award tributes: 2023 in memoriam.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JarNaBC2Y4

Meant to say that there's a Seattle Pilot in there: Wayne Comer.

How did we miss this?

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/39286514/bud-harrelson-scrappy-mets-ss-fought-pete-rose-dies-79

I didn't know about the Alzheimer's. Only won one GG, surprisingly--his defensive reputation was up there with almost anyone's through the '70s. (Usually lost out to Concepcion.) Got an MVP vote in '73 for playing 106 games and hitting .258--his career high till he hit .282/.272 his final two seasons. Immortal, of course, for this (Monday afternoon game, so I was probably sitting in Mr. Gudgeon's grade 8 class and missed it).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8xKLnO4hOs

Rose in 2008: "You had Seaver, who was the greatest pitcher I ever saw, and you had great hitters like Cleon Jones and Tommie Agee, and later Rusty and Milner. But the heart and soul of that team — ask anyone who played against them — was Bud Harrelson."

(Note to Thermo: if there was ever a player who was going to have "scrappy" in his obit headline, Harrelson's the guy.)

A member of the @Mets extended family has passed away. (Okay, REALLY extended family). Joyce Randolph, who played Trixie Norton on “The Honeymooners” was 99 years old. Her grandnephew Tim Redding pitched for the Mets 15 years ago. TV, if not necessarily Mets royalty. RIP. pic.twitter.com/PlbXqMy0ws

— Howie Rose (@HowieRose) January 14, 2024

Steve Staggs, 72. Not sure if Facebook links to a public group work here:

https://www.facebook.com/TorontoBlueJaysBaseballFans/posts/pfbid0yWgxshR6QWTC1C8d8DFFvAWci77arNW12vSUDmwtvgRHtmWnahK9RbAvRRL2tXa5l

I don't remember him at all, even though he was the Jays' leadoff hitter for half their first season. Looks a lot like Wade Boggs here:

https://i.postimg.cc/9fhb6xDH/staggs.jpg

Jimy Williams (if he'd been a character in Goodfellas, he would have been Jimy One-M).

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/baseball/mlb/former-blue-jays-manager-jimy-williams-dead-at-80-1.7098047

1) Had the difficult task of taking over from Bobby Cox in 1986, after the Jays' first divisional title.

2) Manger when they collapsed in '87. After play on Sept. 26, the Jays were 96-59, the best record in baseball by 4-1/2 games. They proceeded to lose their final seven games, the last three by one run to the Tigers, the team that overtook them for the A.L. East title.

3) In the middle of probably the most memorable player-manager confrontation in team history:

https://mopupduty.com/a-memorable-blue-jays-opening-day-041117/

The Jays started the '89 season 12-24, Williams was fired and replaced by Cito Gaston, and it went from there.

"Manger"--I do remember invoking Jesus's name a number of times those final seven games.

I don’t know anything about him but you might enjoy this Red Sox Stats tweet about the time he benched Pedro

On August 14, 1999, Pedro was 16-3 with 199 strikeouts, a 2.46 ERA and 1.62 FIP.

He showed up late for a start, and Jimy sat his ass. pic.twitter.com/WJ7av91tU2

— Red Sox Stats (@redsoxstats) January 29, 2024

I'd completely forgotten he went on to manage other teams...Houston, too. Weird: he had a winning record in all three places (.535 for his career), and in every case, the team went on to their greatest success soon after he left (Jays and Red Sox win WS within three years, Houston goes to their first WS the very next year).

Maybe his biggest claim to fame, upon reconsideration, is managing Pedro in 1999 and 2000.

His biggest claim to fame is probably this:

Williams returned to the Braves as Cox's third base coach from 1991-96, memorably giving Sid Bream the green light for the pennant-winning run on Francisco Cabrera's single

I had no idea he was coaching for the Braves, although it makes sense that he'd follow his former boss to Atlanta.

Didn't know that either...eventful career.

Who just died? I briefly saw one of those rotating online headlines about a pitcher who played for 10 seasons dying...can't find anything.

im not seeing anything

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Hannan

That'd be him, thanks. Never heard of him. Definite claim to fame: part of the massive Denny McLain trade in 1970.

Geez, missed this:

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/don-gullett-world-series-champion-with-reds-and-yankees-dies-at-73/

Easily the best pitcher on my first favourite team. From Posnanski's post today: best winning percentage for pitchers who won 100 games before turning 27 (44 of them in the 20th century).

1. Roger Clemens, 116-51, .695
2. Don Gullett, 109-60, .686
3. Dwight Gooden, 142-66, .683
4. Jim Palmer, 122-57, .682
5. Pedro Martinez, 107-50, .682

Retired after that--never pitched in another game.

ed ott, 72

u l washington, 71

also tim wakefield’s widow stacy, 57

I remember Ed Ott, who then led me back to Duffy Dyer; Manny's backups.

having grown up with ed ott (and steve nicosia!) i have to stop and think whenever the the crossword is asking for MEL

Ed Ott did Felix Millan dirty. RIP but you will pay for it in the afterlife.

missed this but former pirates/cardinals/white sox/etc pitcher jose deleon died a few weeks ago at 63

Such a strange pitcher, the disconnect between his peripheral stats and his W-L record--he got some attention for it at a time when few pitchers did. Both years he lost 19 (2-19 in '85!), he gave up fewer hits than IP. He walked too many, but he also struck out over 7 batters per 9 when, again, that wasn't common. For his career, a league-average ERA, a FIP of 3.61, and a W-L record 30 games under .500.

kind of amazing that deleon still put up 1.8 fWAR while going 2-19

he was unlucky, but the '85 pirates were a deeply awful team (apart from rick reuschel). their leading home run hitter had 12!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PqXNWS4aRU

Three or four famous Mets on there...Did we mention Bill Plummer on this thread? Remember him well as Bench's backup.

Peter Angelos

https://www.baltimoresun.com/2024/03/23/peter-angelos-orioles-owner-dies/

Pat Zachry, 1976's NL ROY (tied with Butch Metzger):

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/mlb/2024/04/06/pat-zachry-obituary/a4456638-f465-11ee-a4c9-88e569a98b58_story.html

Also beat Dock Ellis in G3 of that year's WS sweep of the Yankees.

I missed the biggest part of his story: he was one of the four players sent to the Mets for Seaver in '77 (along with Doug Flynn, Steve Henderson, and Dan Norman).

catcher, most notably with the mets, jerry grote, 81

the notorious fritz peterson, 82

Wow. Also a close friend of Bouton's (or at least was described that way in Ball Four). If you don't know about the notorious part, look him up!

"I always did my best work when I was scared stiff. In fact, if I'm not scared for a game I'll create some critical situations in my mind. Like, I'll pretend it's a World Series game and that it really counts big. I told Fritz Peterson about how I felt about being scared and one day before I was going to start a game he came over and whispered in my ear: 'If you want to see your baby again you'll win today.'"

-- Ball Four

despite peterson’s notoriety, i was not expecting to receive a new york times push notification about his death

if we're going by ny baseball fan importance jerry grote (rip) way more notable than sex freakazoid peterson, his nice run with the non-competitive yankee clubs not withstanding

When Kenny Holtzman was a rookie in 1966, his start against Sandy Koufax was a big event for many of us — two Jewish left-handers going head-to-head a day after observing Yom Kippur. Holtzman pitched eight no-hit innings and the Cubs beat the Dodgers 2-1 at Wrigley Field. RIP. https://t.co/ahs4DJbn5V pic.twitter.com/IwDT6LI1uK

— Mark Potash (@MarkPotash) April 15, 2024

Just heard about this from a friend. Kind of overshadowed on the A's dynasty by Hunter, Blue, and Fingers.

When I was growing up, they would always show those retrospective programs covering the World series and they always showed ones from the Athletics dynasty. Holtzman was one of the singular guys I remembered, and growing up he loomed larger in legend for me than almost anyone from those teams outside of Reggie. When you look at his statistics, it's kind of unbelievable he never received a single Cy Young vote.

https://i.postimg.cc/gJNYQhwk/kevin.jpg

Don't remember him at all.

Holtzman won game 7 of the 73 series versus the Mets, hit a double and scored a run. I'll never not miss pitchers batting, yes I'm old. Also, very good Grid choice because of brief and mostly forgotten Orioles and Yankees years.

I didn't know that Holtzman played for the '77 and '78 Yankees, he won five WS rings! And yeah, it's surprising that he never got a CY vote with those pitching lines, but then again it's not surprising considering his competition on those WS winning teams.

Happy trails Whitey Herzog

My first thought was that he was one of the very last autocratic old-school managers, but he retired in 1990, so I guess there were a number of them still around.

ESPN: "A crew-cut, pot-bellied tobacco chewer who had no patience for the 'buddy-buddy' school of management..."

The Dodgers mourn the passing of one of the team’s all-time greats, Carl Erskine, at the age of 97. Carl was an All-Star, a World Series Champion, a true ally to Jackie Robinson and more in the pursuit of equality, and a pioneering advocate for those with special needs, inspired… pic.twitter.com/1MPNDnz9HR

— Los Angeles Dodgers (@Dodgers) April 16, 2024

Seems apropos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RUIeX6UCT8

Don't think I knew this (from Posnanski's obit):

In a nine-day span in June of 1949, the New York Yankees signed two 17-year-old prospects from the Midwest; one a shortstop out of a town called Commerce and the other an outfielder from a place called Belleville. The Yankees gave each of them a $1,500 signing bonus and something to dream about.

The shortstop was a kid named Mickey Mantle.

The outfielder was Rellie Herzog. Well, Rellie was a nickname. His full name was Dorrel Norman Elvert Herzog. A few months later, while playing in an Oklahoma town called McAlester, a local sportscaster noticed his light hair and gave him a new nickname.

And that’s how he became Whitey Herzog.

Whitey was one of the first non-Cubs managers I remember making an impression (along w/Earl Weaver and Billy Martin.) i'm pretty sure i thought he was about 70 in the '80s, he just looked like one of those old-time lifers. which he was, he just wasn't as old-time as i thought. i feel like the tobacco chaw no BS guys are few and far between these days, the guys who look like they've been through some shit already. Clint Hurdle was a recent-ish one i guess.

They're extinct--just doesn't work with guys making this much money. Which is good; having played for such coaches when I was younger, it's a way of behaving that should be extinct.

Having said that, when I see something like this, some irrational nostalgia for the Herzog/Weaver/Martin style of managing lingers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywuT2PMNQ54

journeyman dave mccarty, 54

https://theathletic.com/5484950/2024/05/10/sean-burroughs-death-mlb/

Didn't immediately clue in as to who he was--Jeff Burroughs' son, I assumed, but I'd forgotten about his Little League fame.

I don't mean to be a downer--don't read this if anything concerning suicide is traumatic for you.

I mentioned Doug Ault on the Immaculate Grid thread a couple of days ago. I didn't know he committed suicide in 2004:

He married his second wife, Lynn Marie, an obstetrician, in 2000. In 2002, she lost her medical license for violating Florida statutes regarding patient safety; a year later, she filed bankruptcy. In January 2004, their home in Tarpon Springs, Florida was sold though a bankruptcy proceeding, and they were separated for "a while". A few months later, Ault's first wife Julie died, after which he left his job at a Clearwater car dealership. According to some of his former teammates, at the time of his death "things were not going great" for Ault.

Ault died at his home in Tarpon Springs on December 22 of a self-inflicted gunshot wound. It was ruled a suicide by the coroner's office on December 28.

The friend who told me this also pointed out--and I have to believe I knew this at one time; maybe there's something about it in an earlier RIP thread--that Mike Flanagan did too, in 2011:

When Flanagan's wife Alex did not hear from her husband on August 24, 2011, she phoned a neighbor for help. The neighbor went to the home and called 9-1-1 after failing to find him. Police discovered a body on the property but could not immediately determine the identity because the wounds were so severe. The body was later identified as Flanagan, with the cause of death determined to be a self-inflicted shotgun wound to the head.

Police said that Flanagan was distressed about financial issues. WBAL-TV reported that Flanagan was still despondent about his perceived failures during his tenure in the Orioles' front office. About one year after her husband's death, Alex Flanagan told Dan Rodricks of the Baltimore Sun that her husband had struggled with depression, seeing a therapist for over 20 years. She also said that he had an alcohol problem.

Many factors, but financial pressure common to both.

Orlando Cepeda

Aaaw

Was looking at his career box. Fast start--222 HR through his age-26 season, would certainly have had 500 if not for injuries and an early retirement. Could have easily won a second MVP in '61. His TC numbers (crucial then) were actually better than Frank Robinson's: .311/46/142 for Cepeda, .323/37/124 for Robinson. WAR says Robinson was definitely the deserving winner--surprise, Aaron and Mays were better than both--but I'm sure the real reason he won was the Reds' surprise pennant.

If you look at the Giants team page for '61, Cepeda is listed as utility! 78 games at first (McCovey had 83), 63 in left, 17 in right--couldn't seem to move the CF out of the lineup. Is that the greatest utility season ever?

Imagine having to choose between McCovey and Cepeda. Comparable to that Jays window when they were sorting out McGriff/Fielder/Olerud/Delgado.

I'll quote about half of this Posnanski post:

But Orlando wanted to play in the United States. He wanted to play in the major leagues. It is true that in 1955, four of the biggest teams in baseball--the Yankees, Red Sox, Tigers and Phillies--had not yet signed a Black player. And it is also true that in 1955, there had not yet been a big-league star from Puerto Rico. But there was hope, there was Jackie Robinson and there was Willie Mays and there was Minnie Miñoso and there was the dream.

Orlando Cepeda joined a group of players making their trip to Florida for the tryout. As it would turn out, that would become perhaps the most famous and bountiful baseball tryout in history...Cepeda was there, of course. So was another 17-year-old slugger named Willie McCovey. The lives of those two slugging first basemen would cross and intersect all the way to Cooperstown.

But here’s the big finish to the story: Cepeda was so young--and the players who came with him, such as José Pagán, were so young--that Zorilla felt like he needed to send an older player with them, someone with a little bit more maturity, somebody who could help guide them on their first trip to America.

So Zorilla picked a 20-year-old rookie outfielder to take the group to America.

That 20-year-old outfielder who escorted Orlando Cepeda to the baseball tryout that would change his life? Roberto Clemente.

The horrors of racism are myriad but also imagine just picking orlando cepeda, willie mccovey & roberto clemente up off the curb

(From the half I cut: Pete Zorilla was a friend of Cepeda's father, a name guy within Puerto Rican baseball.)

as a followup

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/40539797/sean-burroughs-died-fentanyl-intoxication-per-examiner

I looked him up and found a really fun Letterman appearance from when he (& I) were 12

https://torontosun.com/sports/baseball/toronto-blue-jays/former-relief-pitcher-dies-at-55

Don't remember him.

ed kranepool

Had no idea he played his entire career--18 seasons!--with the Mets.

he is a legend among Mets fan, especially because he was around from the start of the franchise until ‘79. His pinch hitting was truly remarkable too.

From MLB:

“Toward the end of his playing career, Kranepool became one of the game’s preeminent pinch-hitters, batting .396 over a five-year span from 1974 to ’78. In 1974, he set a record for highest batting average as a pinch-hitter in a single season (minimum 30 at-bats), going 17-for-35 -- a surreal .486 clip that still stands to this day. For his career, he had 90 pinch-hits, six of them home runs.”

Luis Tiant. I mention him a lot--one of the most interesting, colourful baseball players I've ever watched (and should absolutely be in the HOF).

https://www.providencejournal.com/story/sports/2024/10/08/red-sox-pitching-great-luis-tiant-dies-at-83/75570602007/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFn0Jv-IHw4

163 pitches!

he's one of those guys i always thought *was* in the HOF, like Thurman Munson. a guy who was clearly both a kind of folk hero player as well as actually being statistically great, and not just reputationally great. i was surprised to see how much time during his early career was spent as a reliever, despite him clearly being immediately dominant. even after several seasons with a bunch of CG and shutouts they were running him out there in relief. one wonders what his career would have looked like if they'd just had him as a full-time starter the whole time.

they should just get him into the HOF along with Thurman, and let's get Whitaker and Grich in there while they're at it.

HOF stache n chops

His '68 season was incredible--not quite Gibson-level, but pro-rated clearly better than McLain's, even though McLain pitched 80 more innings. I think he had a scoreless streak that season that was just shy of Drysdale's (then-) record.

I actually think he would have been inducted years ago if he'd hung on to win G6 in the '75 Series. He won G1 and G4 (another CG, 155 pitches and really messy), then there were three consecutive rainouts so he was able to come back and start G6. He was up 6-5 going into the top of the 8th: gave up a leadoff HR to Geronimo, then got pulled. Some Boston catcher won it in extras with a HR. If Tiant wins all three starts, and especially if he had somehow managed a third CG (and especially especially if the Red Sox had won G7), he'd be in already.

I will be guilty today of the internet crime of posting too much about somebody's death.

Today is a very sad day. My friend and teammate , Luis Tiant, passed away. A Big game pitcher, a funny genuine guy who loved his family and baseball. I miss him already….RIP my friend. pic.twitter.com/9jFODk2Che

— Fred Lynn (@19fredlynn) October 8, 2024

(I wonder if Fred Lynn ever hurt himself while tweeting.)

1975 WS vs. Luis Tiant
16 At Bats, 2 H 2 RBI
4 Flyball Outs
3 Strikeouts Swinging
2 Goundouts
& a Foul Popout

— Johnny Bench (@JohnnyBench_5) October 8, 2024

I've got to call attention to an idiotic follow-up comment: "Just a nice rest in piece would have sufficednot...shocking you had to somehow make it about you though."

Yes, Bench is really making it clear how he used to own Tiant there.

Some nice Tiant posts on FB yesterday. Loved this from a friend: "I met him a few years ago with my mom--when she complimented him on his World Series ring, he took it off and handed it to her so she could try it on."

Timing is everything (from Posnanski's post today):

Their career numbers after the 1979 season:

Catfish Hunter: 224-166, 3.26 ERA, 3.66 FIP, 2,012 Ks, 954 walks, 1 Cy Young, five World Series rings, 36.8 combo WAR.

Luis Tiant: 217-156, 3.21 ERA, 3.48 FIP, 2,270 Ks, 1,027 walks, two ERA titles, zero rings but one memorable World Series performance, 55.2 combo WAR.

When Hunter came on the Hall of Fame ballot in 1985, he was immediately the eligible pitcher with the most wins. The best pitchers on the ballot then were Jim Bunning, Mickey Lolich, Lew Burdette, guys like that. Hunter got 53.7% of the vote. No viable Hall of Fame candidate pitcher came on the ballot the next year, and Hunter’s Hall of Fame percentage skyrocketed to 68%. The next year, again, no viable Hall of Fame candidate pitcher came on the ballot, and Catfish Hunter was elected.

THEN Luis Tiant appeared on the ballot. He, like Hunter, had the most wins that first year, and he got 30.9% of the vote, a healthy total that suggested he would get elected to the Hall of Fame at some point.

Only then came the blizzard. Over the next seven years, Steve Carlton (329 wins and four Cy Youngs), Don Sutton (324 wins), Phil Niekro (318 wins), Gaylord Perry (314 wins and two Cy Youngs), Tom Seaver (311 wins and three Cy Youngs), Tommy John (288 wins and a surgery named for him), Fergie Jenkins (284 wins and a Cy Young), Jim Kaat (283 wins) and Jim Palmer (268 wins and three Cy Youngs) all came on the ballot, the most remarkable flurry of dominant pitchers to ever hit Cooperstown.

Luis Tiant’s Hall of Fame case was lost in the storm. He never came close to even the 30% he had gotten his first year.

Last Tiant post, promise...Something pretty amazing I came across via a post I had up on Facebook. Tiant and Sam McDowell were both on the 1964 Portland Beavers of the PCL. Their combined record:

23-1, 213 IP, 112 H, 64 BB, 256 K, 1.73 ERA.

Tommy John was there too; all three of them finished the year with Cleveland.

That's really interesting, but without the five rings, Hunter probably gets stuck in 30 percent limbo too. He definitely had all the intangibles that voters love: he was a winner, had a great mustache, won a CY, had a rep as a phenom (I think he was the youngest ever to win 200 games?), and helped changed the game by becoming a free agent.

Hunter also had the rep of being one of the best control pitchers of the era, but Tiant had a better K/BB!

I'd add a couple of more things for Hunter: the perfect game (last one for 13 years), and that he was the ace for the three A's WS teams ('72/'74 for sure; Holtzman and Blue were probably better in '73). I've always been fine with him in the HOF. He's a little like Tony Perez; if you were around at the time, you understand why they can't be measured by analytics alone.

They should put Tiant in too, though, and also Tommy John.

let the record show Tiant also had a great mustache, right up to the end

https://media.cnn.com/api/v1/images/stellar/prod/gettyimages-185674529.jpg

Just came across one on Facebook that we missed: Ozzie Virgil (senior), first Dominican-born player in the majors.

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/mlb/tigers/2024/09/29/detroit-tigers-trailblazer-ozzie-virgil-sr-dies-at-92/75443502007/

I remember Jr. better, of course, but I do remember Sr. as a coach for the Expos.

Fernando Valenzuela

That's astounding, under the circumstances.

I have vague memories of Fernandomania and my family and neighborhood being so into it.

I was just looking at this clip on YouTube, the last inning of a shutout against the Mets in May '81. He finishes the game 7-0, 5 shutouts, and a 0.29 ERA. That's...otherworldly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLDhs76rkCg

I was quite young but I have vivid memories of that ‘81 season and Tommy Lasorda’s absolute
love of Valenzuela.

As an Astros fan, the bums broke my heart that year in the division series

https://i.imgur.com/y2aaqcA.jpg

I remember back in 81 thinking Seaver should have been Cy Young because i was distracted by the glittering won-loss percentage but looking at it now Fernando was slightly better in most categories except the insane 8 shutouts (also Seaver had completely moved on from his power pitching style and had a really low K rate) but looking at Carlton he probably was better than both under most metrics.

xposts Shutting down the 81 Mets is like the minimum acceptable outcome from any starting pitcher though

:C

A biography of Seaver I read a few years ago that started out okay and got worse and worse--relevent to Fernando and the '81 Cy Young vote:

Baseball Books

Still can't believe the timing. Depending upon Koufax's health, Valenzuela would have been my first or second choice to throw out the first pitch for G1 (more relevant to the '81 Dodgers/Yankees match-up than Koufax for sure). Very much belongs to that lost '80s generation of pitchers we've talked about before. And not to haul out everyone's favourite punching bag, but just as good (though not as durable) as Jack Morris.

This i remember well though

The final outs of Fernando’s no hitter, as called by Vin. If you have a sombrero, throw it to the sky 😭 pic.twitter.com/CTmLg5AOwg

— Josh Thomas (@jokeylocomotive) October 23, 2024

You've probably seen a version of this the past couple of days. I was as excited as could be by Skenes this year, and the game has changed so much, etc., etc., etc.--I get all of that. So this is not meant as a direct comparison. But Valenzuela's first eight starts in '81* defy belief:

5/9 vs. Astros: 9 IP, 5 H, 2 BB, 5 K, 0 R
5/14 vs. Giants: 9 IP, 4 H, 2 BB, 10 K, 1 R
5/18 vs. Padres: 9 IP, 5 H, 0 BB, 10 K, 0 R
5/22 vs. Astros: 9 IP, 7 H, 3 BB, 11 K, 0 R
5/27 vs. Giants: 9 IP, 7 H, 4 BB, 7 K, 0 R
6/3 vs. Expos: 9 IP, 5 H, 0 BB, 7 K, 1 R
6/8 vs. Mets: 9 IP, 7 H, 5 BB, 11 K, 0 R
6/14 vs. Expos: 9 IP, 3 H, 1 BB, 7 K, 2 R

His ERA was 0.50 at the end; because of the walks, his FIP was 1.78.

*Not his debut--he pitched 17.2 innings of relief in 1980 and was great.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/30/sports/baseball/rudy-may-dead.html

Posted about him a couple of months ago:

let’s play: Immaculate Grid!

keith hernandez’s cat hadji, 22

Just had a birthday :(

Rico Carty:

https://www.mlb.com/news/rico-carty-passes-away

Phenomenal year in 1970: 25 HR, 101 RBI, .366/.454/.584, 171 OPS+ in 136 games. His .366 was the highest BA between Williams in '57 and Carew in '77.

(100 games with the Jays in '78.)

bill 'beltin' melton, 79

white sox's ninth-all-time home run hitter

Rocky Colavito, yesterday:

https://www.cleveland.com/guardians/2024/12/rocky-colavito-who-has-died-at-91-was-more-than-a-baseball-slugger-he-was-a-cleveland-sports-legend.html

Slightly before my time, but I came to him via James, who wrote a long thing in one of the Abstracts analyzing the 1960 Colavito-for-Harvey Kuenn trade, how Cleveland fell prey to stereotypes of the day and traded away a great slugger who hit around .260-.70 with lots of walks for a one-dimensional batting champion.

Sorry for the visible logo, but actually made the cover of Time.

https://i.postimg.cc/xCcSqTG1/rocky.jpg

rickey ;_;

sad and unexpected news. the guy was a special kind of legend

what the hell

OH NO.

Rickey was the most generous guy I ever played with, and whenever the discussion came around to what we should give one of the fringe people-whether it was a minor leaguer who came up for a few days or the parking lot attendant—Rickey would shout out, "Full share!" We'd argue for a while and he'd say, "Fuck that! You can change somebody's life!" I admired Rickey's heart, but I usually came down somewhere in the middle.

Unbelievable

He was such a great player, totally unforgettable.

December 5, 1984: Traded by the Oakland Athletics with Bert Bradley and cash to the New York Yankees for Tim Birtsas, Jay Howell, Stan Javier, Eric Plunk and José Rijo.

This never gets mentioned among the all-time worst trades, but WTF Oakland? Rickey was turning 26 and had already broken baseball. The five guys they traded him for accumulated about 10 WAR collectively for the A's during their entire tenures with the team. Rickey had a 10 WAR season in '85 for the Yanks!

December 5, 1984: Traded by the Oakland Athletics with Bert Bradley and cash to the New York Yankees for Tim Birtsas, Jay Howell, Stan Javier, Eric Plunk and José Rijo.

This never gets mentioned among the all-time worst trades, but WTF Oakland? Rickey was turning 26 and had already broken baseball. The five guys they traded him for accumulated about 10 WAR collectively for the A's during their entire tenures with the team. Rickey had a 10 WAR season in '85 for the Yanks!

Much like Rickey, I post so fast that the post appeared twice before this board could react.

Lenny Randle you were a chaotic dude but putting up a 4.2 WAR on an abysmal Mets team and being a real exciting player in a dull Joe Torre era makes you a hero in my world, thanks for the memories

Remember him well, though more as a Ranger (still the Senators in his rookie year). Came close to playing all nine positions in his career--everything except first and pitcher. Some great stories in his bio...won an Italian batting crown with an average of .477.

Missed Merv Rettemund--almost as good a hitter for the '70 Orioles (one of the greatest teams ever) as Frank Robinson or Boog Powell, although as the team's fourth outfielder.

https://www.mlb.com/news/merv-rettenmund-two-time-world-series-champ-dies-at-81

brian matusz, 37 years old

He was Big Papi's Daddy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjZUuY4J6rM

fay vincent, 86

My recollection is that he was an honorable guy who got shoved aside by a Selig-engineered coup.

tommy helms, 1966 NL rookie of the year, 83

I use him often on Immaculate Grid--in '72, they brought in that Morgan guy to replace him.

Chester Earl Lemon, RIP

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7RMB5m-drU

We were talking about him last year:

hall of fame, next vote...

As I stated in that thread, he was more memorable to me as a B level star, not a guy who stood out in one category, but obviously great, and such a key component to those awesome tigers teams. Maybe it’s the black-and-white unis but I think the only competition the Lemon-to-Fielder era Tigers had for a cool plus fun team when I was a kid were the early 1990s White Sox squads.

We missed Rich Rollins, who was just finishing up in 1970 when I started watching baseball:

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2025/05/rich-rollins-passes-away.html

Dr. Ron Taylor: Canadian, doctor, member of the '69 Mets.

https://cooperstownersincanada.com/2025/06/16/canadian-baseball-hall-of-fame-inductee-and-former-toronto-blue-jays-doctor-ron-taylor-dies-at-87/

writer scott miller, apparently

https://www.hillsdale.edu/hillsdale-blog/writers/doug-goodnough/scott-miller-sportswriter

Dave Parker.

RIP Cobra, absolute legend... one of my childhood heroes, hell that whole 1979 Bucs squad.

He logged multiple OAs in the 79 ASG, I remember just being in awe.

He was the only player I ever watch who could hit the ball directly at an infielder and still get a base hit (or double).

Dave Parker

https://tht.fangraphs.com/the-cobra-playlist/

RIP

https://cdn.bsky.app/img/feed_thumbnail/plain/did:plc:wqwzxyiqkrkebj5cwx7p5wmx/bafkreibncichvvabnya4mjcsj6jvif333cobnnyldllcjr5jxtuxdwhvxy@jpeg

This is a big one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXwquWnNWd4

I often forget (till I see a photo of him with a Jays hat) that Parker's final 40 AB were in Toronto.

The jays seemed to be a final destination for a bunch of random good/great players

Including two who never played for them: Vlad Sr. and Votto.

Parker must have been acquired after the deadline; he didn't play in the postseason against the Twins (unless he hurt himself down the stretch).

Nice Posnanski column today on why those two ASG throws are so important to Parker's legend:

What’s harder to explain is that sports were very different back then. We almost NEVER saw Dave Parker play baseball. He was this boxscore phantom boppin baseballs in Pittsburgh. In this miraculous time, when we can watch every pitch Tarik Skubal throws live and watch every home run Shohei Ohtani hits on repeat, greatness feels tangible, like something you can hold in your hand. You want to be reminded how good a shooter Steph Curry is? Go to YouTube, search Steph Curry shooting,” and the first thing you will see is a video called 10 Minutes of Steph Curry Shooting 3 Pointers.

Or you can go down two videos to watch Steph Curry’s Top 30 CRAZY Threes 🤯.

Or Steph Curry threes but they get increasingly more ridiculous.

It’s endless. You can do this with Connor McDavid, or Kylian Mbappé, or Caitlin Clark, or Rashid Khan, or Patrick Mahomes, or just about anybody else.

It wasn’t like that in the late 1970s, of course. And it wasn’t just the lack of highlights. Dave Parker was never on our family television set in Cleveland, Ohio. Why would he be? He played in Pittsburgh. That was a whole other city in a whole other league. Sure, we’d see Dave Parker in the daily leaders section — there in batting average with Pete Rose and Steve Garvey and those guys, maybe in home runs with Dave Winfield and George Foster and Greg Luzinski. We’d see a box score like from the Pirates-Cubs game on Aug. 8, 1978, and go, “Huh, looks like Parker went 5-for-5 with a homer at Wrigley!” We pull his baseball card and shout out, “I got a Dave Parker!”

We might barely catch a glimpse of him doing something amazing during an episode of “This Week in Baseball,” — which was on sporadically in our market (the most likely place to see it was when the Game of the Week was in a rain delay).

We’d imagine the rest.

I say we’d never see Dave Parker play, but that’s an exaggeration. Now and again — rarely, but sometimes — the Pirates would be featured on the Game of the Week. The 1979 Pirates played in the World Series, so we saw him then.

But most of all: There was the All-Star Game.

wtf I saw him play on TV plenty of times in 1979 and I lived ~1k miles from Pittsburgh...

they had a huge vibe "We Are Family" etc.

suck it Posnanski:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tK_9gHVlU4

Yeah that doesn't jibe with my experience of the Saturday game of the week. Almost all NL games, plenty of Bucs.

maybe "mostly" instead of "almost all" NL games -- I remember seeing the Red Sox a lot and being mesmerized by Luis Tiant

The Posnanski hate here perplexes me...I was very much alive and tuned in through to '78, and I hardly ever saw Parker actually play. For sure, because of the '79 WS (the only one I ever sat out--long story I've related before), he would have been seen more in '79, but the general point that Posnanski's making seems irrefutable: that in Parker's two prime years, unless you lived in Pittsburgh, you would mostly know him via boxscores and what you heard.

I'd be interested if there logs of the Saturday game of the week from back then--going to check that.

Can't find anything--if anybody has a link for mid-late '70s games, please post it here. There were a number of dynastic teams then; my guess is the Pirates would have been on three or four times a season.

I'm really surprised--and gratified--by the reaction to Parker's death. I still remember when he was at a low ebb around '83 or so, the face of the cocaine scandal, a guy who threw away a HOF career. He did recover on the field--had big seasons with the Reds in '85 and '86 (old-school big seasons; analytically, not nearly the same player)--but I don't know that he ever entirely outlived that till the touching story of his health issues, and video footage of same. I remember James (oh good, an opening to turn this into an anti-James thing) excoriated Chuck Tanner at the time for turning a blind eye to some of the characters who had access to the Pirates clubhouse; I may be conflating two different pieces, but I think he contrasted that with Whitey Herzog trading away Keith Hernandez as soon as drugs were an issue. Today, in the Wander Franco/Curt Schilling era, I think substance abuse, and recovering from it, is seen as a very human and relatable problem.

i think NL fans were intimately familiar w/players on other NL teams, Posnanski's point is only true if you lived in an AL-only market. there's a reason why from watching games as a kid I remember so many of these guys, some of them being legends of the moment if not legends to this day. in my mind for example the Pirates were this unstoppable lineup comprised of Parker, Stargell, Moreno, Madlock, Jason Thompson, etc.

Okay, I found some logs for Parker's prime seasons:

https://archive.506sports.com/wiki/1975_MLB_Season
https://archive.506sports.com/wiki/1976_MLB_Season
https://archive.506sports.com/wiki/1977_MLB_Season
https://archive.506sports.com/wiki/1978_MLB_Season
https://archive.506sports.com/wiki/1979_MLB_Season

For every week, they list two games. Here's how many times the Pirates turn up (I counted quickly):

1975 - 11
1976 - 11
1977 - 7
1978 - 9
1979 - 9

I don't know how they determined who got which game--if you lived in an NL city, did you automatically get the NL game? what if you were in Chicago or New York? etc.--but in 1975, depending upon where you lived, you could have theoretically seen the Pirates 11 times or zero times. Cutting those numbers in half and counting on the law of averages...

1975 - 5.5
1976 - 5.5
1977 - 3.5
1978 - 4.5
1979 - 4.5

I guessed three or four times, so a little more than I thought. But again: the ability to actually see Parker play during his prime wasn't anywhere near what it would be today. I'm sure there are obsessive Judge and Ohtani fans who see more game footage of them in a week than someone at the time would have seen of Parker during those five years.

Not sure if Posnanski grew up in Cleveland (the Duane Kuiper fixation) or Cincinatti (wrote a book on the '75 Reds), so I guess that would be a factor.

For me, Thompson and Moreno come later on the Pirates timeline. I associate Parker more with the Sanguillen/Hebner/Zisk era, although I now see all three were gone by '77; the Pirates really changed between the '76 and '77 season.

The Pirates were MASSIVE in 1979. You chose the wrong year to sit out. Also, I'll repeat: your fallacy is showing (as well as Pos' market bias). You should have moved to Montreal imho.

While I grew up in a massive college football town, it was an absolute MLB desert (two teams 5-6 hour drive away, and a couple more 8-9 hours away).

Yet those of us with access to WGN or WTBS plus the national syndicated MLB game of the week and then the playoffs were able to string together and enjoy a wide plethora of teams on TV.

Trust me, I wore a Pirates cap from 1978-1980 (until it fell apart at the seams).

how many stars were on your hat?

flammarionengraving.jpg

Posnanski grew up, according to his Wiki bio, in South Euclid, a suburb of Cleveland. So I guess he got the AL games, which would jibe with his experience of not seeing Parker that much. Do you disagree with his general point, though? That for the average baseball fan, what you knew about Parker in the mid- and late-'70s--and certainly until the '79 WS--was mostly from boxscores and what you'd heard/read. Dr. J. was a legend to me in the '70s, but the access I had to actually seeing him wouldn't have been 1% of what I can see of Gilgeous-Alexander, Jokic, and the rest of today's stars.

And I'm sure how old you were at the time, but even if all ten Pirates Saturday afternoon games were broadcast in your area, did you actually watch all 10? I was 16 in the summer of '78 and watched a lot of baseball, more than I do now. But I also had a job at the golf course, and did teenager stuff, and all the rest--it's not like I watched every single Saturday game.

Yes, they were my favorite team so I made sure to watch them.

Fair enough. This whole thing seems kind of beside the point to me, but let's say if you lived in an NL city, and especially if the Pirates were your favourite team, you saw a lot of Parker. If neither was true--Posnanski, me--you didn't.

Being down 3-1 to the O's back with their against the wall, I was GLUED to every single game. They were the team of destiny. They gave me hope in all that is right in the world.

wtf is mookieproof, would love to hear his thoughts on this P.O.S. and what he writes which have been true for him in his little corner of the midwest, but was certainly was not true for everyone.

What's esp shitty is that P.O.S. grew up less than 2 hours from Pittsburgh. The Pirates were closer to him than the Reds! As well as the Jays, Cubs/WSox & Tigers, etc.

yeah idk, maybe i was lucky i lived in an MLB desert and the broadcasting rights and market blackouts never being an issue. but i'm not gonna write some clickbait about how nobody saw a certain player play when i absolutely grew up watching tons of my favorite players.

i grew up 14 miles from three rivers stadium, so i saw him a lot ^_^

i agree with posnanski's general point, tho. oddly enough, our basic cable in the late 70s/early 80s carried wuab cleveland, which showed some indians games. but i hardly ever watched, because i didn't give a shit about the american league

did watch some mets (wor) and braves (wtbs) tho. we never got the cubs (wgn)

i had just turned eight for the '79 world series, so while i remember bits and pieces (did tanner send tekulve to the outfield for one batter so he didn't have to face a lefty? i know he did that at least once but it might not have been in the playoffs) i don't recall a whole lot

I was waiting for mookie too...not on the Posnanski point, just in general. Any thoughts on what I wrote above, that we now see Parker's failings as very human and forgivable next to some of the transgressions fans have to square today?

(Don't torture me with what I missed with the '79 WS; it is already one of my life's nagging regrets. I'm tempted to go onto that rules thread I started a couple of weeks ago and add what I'll call the We Are Family Rule, in (dis)honour of me: everyone who ever attended university was at their most pompous and insufferable for those four years.)

I also think Parker--and that shirt--have come to symbolize '70s baseball in the very best sense, like Vida in '71, Oscar Gamble's afro, and Reggie the whole decade. Things where you had to have been there to feel the full nostalgic value that those things carry.

(And Fidrych--can't not mention him.)

*before* the committee selected him i wrote

stats-wise, parker doesn't really belong (although there are, of course HOFers who belong even less). but in his favor i would submit:

- subject of two of the best photos of baseball players ever
- 'the cobra' is a hall-of-fame nickname
- that throw in the all-star game
- on why he wore a star of david necklace: 'because i'm a david and i'm a star'
- i honestly feel like 'fame' should be part of the equation
- a+ surname
- it would make me happy

― mookieproof, Monday, November 4, 2024 8:05 PM (seven months ago)

i hadn't realized until reading the obits that he was the first player to make $1m/yr, and took some shit for being a black guy injured and not playing as well as he had previously

#5 above is maybe a little iffy. why did it take edgar martinez forever to get into the hall when, despite having a significantly lower WAR, david ortiz got in on his first try? the latter has some counting numbers, but i would argue that it's because he was *famous*, and i'm okay with that! (obviously they should both be in.) it's not fair to the guys who toil in kansas city or wherever, but so it goes. and i will fp myself for using this phrase, but parker was iconic

also his last name is the same is mine and my family always referred to him as cousin dave

What's the other Parker photo?

smoking in the dugout

could've also gone with the goalie mask photos tho

Don't think I've ever seen the smoking photo--his tribute to Dick Allen, obviously.

I agree with you 100% on the fame question, with the one caveat that that may one day get Steve Garvey elected (though doubtful at this point, he's been bypassed so many times).

good lord: https://www.baseball-reference.com/awards/awards_1974.shtml#all_NL_MVP_voting

Steve Garvey was basically the same player as Michael Young or Garret Anderson. Nice players if you can have them, but don’t kick yourself if you don’t.

when i think of steve garvey i think of curiously large and hairy forearms

but he had absolutely nothing on saskatoon 55s slugger gordie howe:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GOxPMu_WYAAed9-.jpg

(happy canada day)

I won't lie: as a 13-year-old, I was unhappy with Garvey winning MVP, but only because I was positive it should have gone to Lou Brock (new stolen base record, and an even lower WAR than Garvey).

Bobby Jenks, 44

Haven't thought about him for years, but as soon as I saw the name, remembered this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjyGihTlFp8

So young.

Re: Posnanski above, even tho i grew up like a decade later, what he describes was very much my experience. Loved watching TWIB before games because I saw all sort of stuff I’d never get the chance to. I’d watch the sports segments on the news, but it was always dominated (in order) by the leafs, jays, hockey, argos and golf. Other baseball happenings were sparsely covered and my relationship with national league players was very much limited to the newspaper leaders/boxscores, my baseball cards, all star games, World Series and very occasional glimpses in highlight reels.

TWIB was crucial. I'm sure that like me, the theme music is hard-wired into your brain.

haha yes

This is sort of interesting re Parker:

Dave Parker is one of 9 players ever to hit a HR off multiple Hall of Famers in the same game.

Parker (Dennis Eckersley & Lee Smith)
Eduardo Pérez (Randy Johnson & Mariano Rivera)
B.J. Surhoff (Pedro Martínez & Dennis Eckersley)
Rickey Henderson (Phil Niekro & Steve Carlton)
Billy Williams (Juan Marichal & Gaylord Perry)
Ted Williams (Early Wynn & Bob Lemon)
Mickey Mantle (Bob Lemon & Bob Feller)
Jackie Jensen (Bob Feller & Hal Newhouser)
Babe Ruth (Red Faber & Ted Lyons)

He did it while a Red.

When did Niekro and Carlton play together (and how did they get into the same game)?

Okay, Cleveland in '87.

Joe Coleman, Tigers workhorse from the early '70s:

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/mlb/tigers/2025/07/10/joe-coleman-death-tigers-mlb/84530940007/

Won 20 twice with the Tigers. He and Lolich had crazy workloads then: Coleman pitched 280+ innings every season from '71-74. He came to the Tigers along with Eddie Brinkman and Aurelio Rodriguez from Washington in the infamous Denny McLain trade, so I use him a lot on Immaculate Grid.

Meanwhile, Lerrin LaGrow is still very much alive.

Lee Elia:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2025/07/10/lee-elia-dies-phillies-cubs-rant/84542368007/

This one will resonate with the Jays fans here: Jim Clancy.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/article/former-blue-jays-star-pitcher-jim-clancy-dies-at-age-69-team-says/

He was the #2 guys behind Steib in the early '80s. Made the AS team in '82, and was still in the rotation when they won '85 and when they melted down in '87 (was actually a bit surprised--didn't realize he was around that long till I looked up his BRef page). Real '80s kind of pitcher; he was 6'4", and if you look at a pitcher of him, you'd think he was striking out 250+ batters a year. For his career, 5.1 per 9.

Pitchers of Matchstick Men.

https://i.imgur.com/ulQ4NBm.png

Also: classic baseball name.

Looked up Clancy's one ASG in '82. He was the second A.L. pitcher into the game (one scoreless inning); 47 guesses as to who started for the A.L. that year.

Dennis Eckersley

Ryne Sandberg

man...that was when I was really, really into baseball, the Sandberg years

Wow. Caught off guard by this one.
Growing up he was one of those mysterious gods from the NL that I rarely got to actually see. Him and Gwynn and Ozzie were these guys I mostly heard the legends about and wanted to pull their card from a pack, see all those glorious stats

After Whitaker, he must be the 2B I saw play most often. Lots of Sandberg vs. Whitaker debates with Chicagoland relatives back then.

Makes sense that the two are at the top of each other's similarity scores, AND YET only one is in the Hall of Fame -- but maybe this isn't the time for that discussion.

A great player I didn't appreciate enough because I was an Alomar guy. I was convinced Alomar was better because of the Wrigley factor, but both Jaffe and BWar have Sandberg slightly ahead. (BWar has them Whitaker, Sandberg, Alomar; Jaffe almost has them consecutive, with Sandberg, (Utley), Whitaker, Alomar.

I was thinking you could name a certain kind of player a "Sandberg," meaning he started his career ever-so-briefly with one team--Sandberg has 6 AB with the Phillies before being traded--then spent the rest with a second that he was so strongly identified with, the first was essentially forgotten. Trying to think of another example...(thought of Lou Brock, but he actually had three or four seasons with the Cubs).

Sandberg had a "team leader" aura that Alomar could never touch. Has there been another second baseman like that in the past 30 years? The only one I can think of is Altuve. Maybe Pedroia and Biggio too, but they had teammates who outshone them. That's really it.

Wasn’t pedroia sort of known as a dick?

Very!

Has there been another second baseman like that in the past 30 years?

K-Marte, DJLeM, CUtley...

Sandberg had a "team leader" aura that Alomar could never touch.

I guess so...Alomar was the best player on two WS winners. (No need for anyone to remind me of why Alomar's a pariah now.)

I'm advocating for one of the great villains of the past 35 years here--strictly as a player--so, between the spitting and the sexual harrassment charge, I don't expect any allies here. But I would give the edge to Alomar up to and including 2001, and then he falls off a cliff. (I'd also add a third bit of ugliness, obviously less serious than the harrassment allegation; how he sulked his way out town in 1995.)

Utley was never the "leader", his teammates won MVP's he was underrated even by his own team.

Utley:

5 straight years #1 offensive WAR for PHI
5 straight years All-Star
5 straight years MVP vote getter

seems leader-ly to me

Also Marcus Semien of the Texas Rangers... I remember after they won the WS in 2023, Corey Seager complementing Semien as the backbone of the organization and a de-facto captain/heart & soul of the team.

Semien was definitely a leader on the 2021 Jays--I recall that many of the younger players said as much.

I don't mean to harp on Sandberg: again, great, great player. But I don't know if he would have been seen as a leader in his MVP year, a breakout season when he was 24. Clearly the best player on a division winner, but still pretty young. (You could say the same of Alomar when the Jays went back-to-back; for leadership, they had Winfield and Molitor and Carter.) When Sandberg hits his prime from '89 to '92, the Cubs had Andre Dawson; I have to believe he would have been seen as the de facto team leader, although maybe it was him and Sandberg both.

Objectively quantifying any of this stuff, of course impossible.

Nice clip (Shawon Dunston on Sandberg):

https://www.facebook.com/watch?v=1308328540714622

Davey Johnson

Great manager: .562 career winning pct., winning record with 5/5 teams (barely with the Dodgers). As a player, he was more of a Brady Anderson than Anderson himself when he hit 43 HR with the '73 Braves--his career high otherwise was 18.