2023 World Series: Arizona Diamondbacks vs Texas Rangers

Ragtag bag of rookies, journeymen, and Paul Sewald vs Bochy’s boys. Personally I have no idea who’ll win, I just want to see the following:

- Aroldis Chapman to get lit up
- Pfaadt qs
- Christian Walker to finally do anything
- Jonah Heim switch hitting home runs from both sides of the plate
- Carroll to get at least three bags
- Monty qs
- Tommy Pham to do absolutely nothing

Unknowns:

- will Marcus Semien ever wake up?
- can Scherzer actually deliver a qs at this stage?
- can Zac Gallen actually rise to the occasion?

Not a poll?

No.

Voting rangers in 7

No clue anymore. I was sure an Astro-Phillies WS was going to restore some semblance of logic to all of this, but no. Beyond the Jays, I root for players not teams, but I will root for Texas here because of 2011. And Semien, and Scherzer, who'll I'll root for unequivocally this time (mixed feelings in G7 of the ALCS). What a strange, nomadic finish to his career.

i've seen these scrappy underdog stories before, they usually run into a buzzsaw at some point and the rangers definitely seem like that buzzsaw. wouldn't be surprised by a rangers sweep

Which is about the boldest prediction I'm ready to make: one of these teams is about to come down to earth a bit.

Series opens in Texas. Can't remember if they did this in 2010 or 2011, but please invite David Clyde to throw out the first pitch.

Can Degrom be ready for game 7?

I’m sure they can find a cheerleader uniform to fit him

The Rangers, who will be making their third World Series appearance, are -175 on BetMGM. The Diamondbacks, who won their only other World Series appearance in 2001, have +145 odds to win it all.

No surprise, and pretty much guaranteeing the Diamondbacks will win.

i've seen these scrappy underdog stories before, they usually run into a buzzsaw at some point and the rangers definitely seem like that buzzsaw. wouldn't be surprised by a rangers sweep

― 龜, Wednesday, October 25, 2023 7:28 AM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

yeah this kind of feels like last year's NBA Finals, where the Miami Heat shocked everyone by fairly decisively taking out the top 2 seeds only to run into a Nuggets team which was just way better than them in every way. and well-rested to boot. but this is baseball. of course Arizona can win 4 more.

this is a battle between perhaps my two least favorite uniforms. should be illegal for the dbacks to win until they get their shit together and go back to purple.

Boo, no poll:

Rangers in 5

This is going to set records for least watched World Series ever. I'm not even sure if I'm going to watch, maybe just background stuff.

Lowest rated was 2020, the COVID year, even though L.A. was in it--not sure how to balance those two opposing factors. Two highest rated this century were the great 2001 series--Arizona!--and the first Red Sox win; they both had about triple the audience of 2020. Everything else, somewhere in between...I think you're probably right. I find stuff like that interesting, some people don't even want to talk about it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Series_television_ratings

This is going to set records for least watched World Series ever. I'm not even sure if I'm going to watch, maybe just background stuff.

i like the odds of Texas's bats thumping the Diamondbacks pitching better than I do the reverse. Rangers in 6 (but cheering for the D-Backs).

go back to purple.

No! The purple uniforms were worse.

My card is the 7 of Diamondsbacks (Dbacks in 7)

Of course they're still doing these, because what else can they do?

https://www.mlb.com/news/d-backs-rangers-2023-world-series-position-by-position

This is going to set records for least watched World Series ever. I'm not even sure if I'm going to watch, maybe just background stuff.

how did the NLCS and ALCS do? the best teams didn't really make those either.

Such a hassle when the narrative teams can’t get it done

"Narrative" is a pretty broad, amorphous term. The Rangers and Diamondbacks are about as narrative as it gets at the moment.

I said this last year too though I can’t recall when but I just do not remotely care that the teams who are “supposed” to be there aren’t (which is what I mean by narrative). In no sport I’ve ever followed has an underdog team doing well been bad for the sport. As a Phillies fan in a video I saw put it, “$700m to go 0-12.” I mean…yeah.

I think I’m posting just having been annoyed by commentary on this as well, so for example I don’t care if Bryce Harper doesn’t get “his” ring, I’m not related to him, his achievements mean absolutely nothing to me. But that’s a real argument I’ve seen on baseball twitter and it’s completely alien to me. Like I’ve followed Corbin Carroll (with his surname directly from the same part of Ireland I’m from, king!) all season long and it reminds me very much of reading back about Buster Posey’s stud rookie year. A brilliant young player like him or Josh Jung contributing to their teams getting to and even maybe winning the World Series is the kind of thing that I love about the game. The moment is big, and so far they’ve been equal to it.

I mean yeah it would be cool for Harper to win a ring after seeing the Nats get one without him, on the other hand that's just not really how the sport works. and I feel like the fans understand that. in the NBA and NFL when you bring up superstar players the titles they've won is usually the thing that comes to mind first. how you rank dudes depends a lot on whether or not they were able to get it done in the playoffs. in baseball it feels more like a bonus thing. even if you're the best player in the world you still can't singlehandedly get your team to the playoffs the way you could in other sports.

Yeah exactly. It’s a team sport and even having a generational talent (or two!) isn’t enough.

Just making the point that there all kinds of narratives. You're attached to the scrappy-underdog and magical-rookie-season narratives. I love those, too, sometimes--recently, I was caught up in the 2019 Nationals and in Carlos Correa's arrival. But not always. I do, more often than not, cheer for the grizzled-veteran-makes-one-last-heroic-stand narrative, which is why I always root for Verlander and Kershaw and Scherzer. Blame seeing The Winning Team at a young age. And blame my age now.

Sometimes the narratives change overnight seemingly. Last year the Phillies were the scrappy underdogs. Most people on ILX still seemed to love them at the beginning of the NLCS this year.

I don't hate dynasties, which is, again, traceable to my first decade as a fan. The '70s were all about dynasties and mini-dynasties: the Orioles, Yankees, and Red Sox in the A.L. East, the A's and Royals in the West; the Pirates and Phillies in the N.L. East, the Reds and Dodgers in the West. These were memorable teams--obviously changing over time, but usually with a core that didn't. Sometimes I like chaos--I loved the ending to that one crazy season round about 2008 (the one where the whole playoff picture changed three times in a matter of minutes)--but not as a permanent state.

Took a few minutes to clarify: it's the 2011 season I'm talking about. Chaos I loved. (Sure enough, it was carried all the way to the WS and David Freese.)

https://www.mlb.com/news/remembering-dramatic-final-day-of-2011-season

MLB is unusual among major US sports in that there is no salary cap (though I understand there is more of a luxury tax than there used to be). I suppose NASCAR and world soccer are sports like this as well.

So when I see an MLB team beat another team with twice the payroll I find that an exciting story, bigger than just baseball.

I've read that starting in 2023 the Diamondbacks had a payroll of $116,471,292. The Philadelphia Phillies had a payroll of $243,009,439.

I also like to see a short turnaround story. I followed the Angels in their miserable season of 2001 because I had a long commute from Orange County back in those days. And then I loved seeing the Angels win the 2002 World Series with many of the same players (sorry gyac).

I don't know if there's a more admirable franchise on the payroll/results spectrum than the Rays.

I mean, they're so great they end up right in the middle of two conflicting narratives: the scrappy underdog who's annoying because they win every single year.

i believe the 1987 twins are the only precedent for a team with a negative run differential in the regular season winning the world series. would be kinda cool to see it happen again, though it really exposes just how swingy baseball is

xp that’s a bit of an exaggeration I think, they’ve won two pennants in their entire history.

I also disagree a bit with felicity about the low payroll aspect: the teams who get results with lower payrolls are usually able to do so cos they draft high and don’t have to pay those players yet, or they’re unusually good at picking up low risk high upside guys who have some flaw another team couldn’t fix.

The Mariners are tremendously frustrating because almost every fan wants them to spend in free agency to bring in some decent bats- and to bring in a bat to a pitcher-friendly stadium you’ve got to overpay, right? But the owners are notoriously stingy and would probably prefer to trade away the great young players once they want to be paid so the window isn’t going to be as long as it should be. The A’s as well, all that revenue sharing money going into the owner’s pocket rather than on players, shouldn’t be allowed. But if that model had succeeded, all the billionaires who own teams would want to copy it to cut out the biggest expense on their payroll - players.

Well...you put a lot of emphasis on the postseason as a determinative measure of success. Since their turnaround in 2008, I think most fans would view the Rays as having had a very successful, sustained run (with a four-year dip midway). Being in the same division, I'm generally in awe.

Me and every single players going. Everyone wants a ring.

Fans and players are going to measure "success" the same? Kind of moving the goal posts there...If you're arguing that the Rays aren't really all that successful because they've "only" been to two World Series, I just don't see that as a credible argument.

Baseball players are competitive. Of course they want to win the World Series? It’s the biggest accomplishment you can achieve in baseball. Individual awards are nice but they are just that, individual.

No argument re players. I'm looking at this as a fan, a Jays fan in particular, and the Rays are a great success story post-2008 to me.

Unrelated side note: I'm in a 5/6 today, kind of a rough one (or at least till I, uh, ejected two guys--much quieter since). There's one guy named Ripken, a baseball fan, who says that yes, he's named after the other Ripken. (Not the coach of the "fuckface" guy, the one who played a lot.)

("or," not "of")

xp this won’t mean much to you I suspect but I once was served in a shop in north London by a young man with the name tag Maldini. “Like the player?!” I said, somewhat obviously. “Yeah,” said the kid, who was clearly just that bit too young to remember his prime.

I was able to guess the sport!

Before leaving today, I told Ripken he had to be in school for the next 2,632 consecutive days--no sickness, no trips, nothing. I think he was one of the 5s...that should take him into his first graduate degree, at least.

i believe the 1987 twins are the only precedent for a team with a negative run differential in the regular season winning the world series. would be kinda cool to see it happen again, though it really exposes just how swingy baseball is

― ciderpress, Thursday, October 26, 2023

They might be the only other team to even reach the Series with a negative RD. Checked the '73 Mets, and they steamrolled the opposition with 608 runs scored and 588 given up.

This thread nearly broke me out of my stupor but we all know Bryce already has a ring from last year and there’s nothing anyone can say to convince me otherwise

It must be nice for Max Scherzer or Tommy Pham to be offloaded at the trade deadline and suddenly find themself in the position of possibly being part of a World Series team. One of them will get some jewelry.

And then I loved seeing the Angels win the 2002 World Series with many of the same players (sorry gyac).

― felicity, Thursday, October 26, 2023 10:06 AM (eight hours ago)

https://i.imgur.com/2EBoxmn.jpg

he's been out of the game for six years but christ do i still hate john lackey

I always felt like I could hear him breath and smell his teeth through the tv

Sorry that’s not very nice, there’s much better reasons to dislike Lackey than his face

lol the Rally Monkey

And count former Dodgers outfielder Matt Kemp among those who didn’t like seeing the Rally Monkey on the screen as an opposing player.

“I don’t like the Rally Monkey,” Kemp told the Associated Press in 2012. “I’m scared of the Rally Monkey. You’re out there in the outfield and the monkey just pops up on the screen. That’s kind of scary.”

Diamondbacks fueled by doubters during World Series march

this kind of shit is just exhausting; see also the crap with harper and the braves' shortstop

possibly being in the world series or simply wanting to play well is enough motivation in itself?

i mean they couldn't even get a tommy pham quote

Nah, sports are the one arena where pettiness is a virtue, I’m all about that.

Gallen telling Phillies fans where to buy tickets for their next game (spring training) is great, and in this current moment, give me more of it.

Also as a big market team supporter, there’s a devilish joy in seeing the small market boys take so much pride in being small market boys

“Atta boy Harper” was totally ruined though by people taking it seriously, so yeah that whole saga was a bit lame

Max Scherzer puts finger on ALCS woes: a cut on his thumb. But feels like he has a better grip on the problem heading into #WorldSeries.

"I found a way to throw some cotton on it and some glue," Scherzer said. #MLB https://t.co/tPPqAncgyW

— David Lennon (@DPLennon) October 27, 2023

never change

Bochy was the reason the Rangers lost in 2010. He'll be the reason they win this time.

Rangers in 6

Not saying you're right or wrong, just wondering if you're thinking of some specific reason.

There's a baseball writer whose colloquial name rhymes with Jay-Z who has a shareable preview up, but I won't link. People with seize on the sixth or the eleventh or the twenty-third sentence and proclaim "That's the most ridiculous thing ever written." If you're interested, probably not hard to find.

I'd be happy for either team but the idea of a franchise winning its first ever World Series is magical.

speaking of here's a fun fact - every single time the Brewers have been in the postseason, the team that beat them eventually made the World Series, and 6 of 8 of them wound up winning it. so I guess we are kind of a lucky charm.

(xpost) The primary reason I'm rooting for Texas. Arizona was gifted arguably the most thrilling moment this century (short list, for sure), in their fourth year of existence no less. Texas has been living with one of (or two of, a few minutes apart--plus the bat-flip) the most heartbreaking for over a decade.

Clarification no one asked for: your rationale for who you're rooting for changes--or may change--from series to series. I wanted Houston over Texas because I thought Astros-Phillies was the best WS matchup, and because I wanted to keep watching Alvarez (and, to a lesser extent, because I like Verlander and Baker and Brantley). That ain't happening; with the two teams left, franchise history now guides my rooting interest.

I wanna root for the Diamondbacks because if they win a WS, surely the Brewers could some day too. I kinda like that about baseball, yes the payroll discrepancies are very unfair, but when the chips are down ultimately it's all about who runs hot in October. having a massive payroll won't save you. random rookies or journeymen relievers can make all the difference. on the other hand I'm pulling for the Rangers because I still remember how brutal that 2011 World Series was. so I dunno. I just want everyone to have fun and take lots of pictures!

I wanna root for the Diamondbacks because if they win a WS, surely the Brewers could some day too

don't worry 2006 already happened we don't need another one

https://wv.localnews.com/meet-the-billionaire-owners-facing-off-in-the-world-series/

Sometimes you are better off not knowing.

Scrappy billionaires.

I could have sworn I was talking about the team and not the owners.

Why would you think that was meant for you?! I was having fun with the narrative, geez.

I’m simply cheering for 7 competitive games of baseball. I don’t mind who wins the “piece of metal” in the end

*holding my tongue* 🫢

I think all five MLB guys picked the Rangers tonight, so I'm counting Arizona as up 1-0 already.

Eovaldi currently proving them right. He looks dialled in

Big game Nate at it again

I'm watching the pre-game show on the MLB network, attention divided, I notice Carl Yastrzemski's on there talking about 1967, realize it's 8:15 and I seem to be watching a whole documentary on the Impossible Dream team, little voice tells me to change channels.

CHANGE CHANNELS

I recognize Marcus Semien--I'm dialed in.

Hell yeah let’s get this game going

I hope they've got Garcia running on contact this series.

Gallen just cannot get a clean first inning

God, he's hot--he's going to breeze by Freese's RBI record.

As I will periodically do: Beltre!

Definitely a DP.

i figured out what the dbacks remind me of - they look like a team of pro esports gamers

Gallen for sure--I see versions of him every night when I flip past Poker Stars.

corbin’s got that pale untanned look from gaming til 3 am in a basement

Well if we are saying things like that, Eovaldi reminds me a bit of Steve Carrell. I like him though

Lol 龜, never saw it but now that you’ve highlighted it, otm

gallen looks like a carbon copy of kyle mooney to me

oh totally

apparently i'm not the only one

https://i.imgur.com/XVOIIiB.jpeg

In the pre-game show, Kevin Millar said he'd be bunting as early as the third inning to get a lead. This doesn't really strike me as the series for that.

On the one hand: Gallen is such a fun pitcher to watch when he’s on and it’s great having new young studs coming through. On the other: Seeing him get torched is great because of all the cocky off the field talk he’s on record for.

All in all, whatever happens in a Zach Gallen start, I’m happy. Great player to watch

Oh they started Alek Thomas? He seems like such a good kid.

If I know anything about sport broadcasting, there’s going to be a close up shot of that kid crying a couple hours from now

Alek Thomas wouldn't cry

(I kid)

Ha! I stand corrected, Kevin Millar.)

(That was an orphan end bracket, not an attempt at an emoticon.)

...which, counter-intuitively, might be where you question the bunt. They gave up an out for two runs that would have scored anyway. If Carroll scores, doesn't matter; if not, maybe.

SPEED!

I’m so proud of our son, felicity!

100% safe.

yes, all the kids are right!

Christian Walker just cannot get it going

I've got to believe Texas is a little rattled with Eovaldi getting dinged--he was their one (or at least #1) pitching weapon.

Both starters over 50 pitches now.

Maybe but it’s still only three runs. They can get out of it

I don't know if it's too early for an IBB...but I'd consider it.

You do not want to pitch high and inside to Garcia right now Gallen

Oh man, that was the pitch to hit

Suspension! (Okay, I'll retire that joke.)

6-7!!!!!!

Common Garver, hit a granny, let’s make this a ball game!

Semi-intentional, I think.

Don’t show me sad O’s in the World Series 🙁

Oh, what a pitch.

That was a great AB

Man is just not executing, he was lucky Garver didn’t whack one of those fastballs in the exact same location out of there

Way Garver approached it, I think that was the best possible conclusion there, he looked ready to hit one there

That ain’t a good stat line Jonah

Lucky to get out of that with just one but yeah if I’m him I’m hoping for a long top of the 4th

About as even as you could get right now with both teams playing their own way! Dbacks getting their runs through small ball, bunt and run inside singles sac fly business; Rangers getting theirs through just unrelenting plate discipline. Feels like. Earned 4 walks already compared to the dback’s 0.
Hope these three innings are a micro capsule of what this series will be!

Both starters gave leads right back--to paraphrase Ben Bradlee, the non-shutdown shutdown inning.

^^dunno what happened halfway through that post

Why did it have to be him

Tommy Phaaaaaaaaaaaaam, is quite literally, a bad man

very exciting matchup so far

Has someone lost their child, he’s at the plate

I remember making some post about Tommy Pham in one of these World Series threads many years ago...he might have been a rookie then.

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/10086937-mlb-investigating-cyber-hate-messages-directed-at-tommy-phams-13-year-old-nephew.amp.html

just filthy

Dbacks hand signs after hits are great

What a jump.

Small ball in the World Series is so great. Go dbacks

Phenomenal!

God these dbacks can hit

Bochy needs to find his fabled short soon.

short leash...

Last batter I’d wager?

Yep

Perdomo looks like a fun guy

Not sure if we're all seeing the same commercials, but that Sam Esmail thing looks really good.

the important thing is, America gets a taco

that was a smooth top of 5th from fallen

Wasn't sure if Gallen would get out of the first inning--he really did rebound well. Texas is probably screwed in a bullpen game.

this is why you need to take the kids seriously. they have bullpen

But Greg Maddux (who is supposedly there) needs to drop by the dugout to remind Gallen that he can't be The Professor because Maddux is already The Professor.

I did not think he had that qs in him but fair play

the wheels on Corbin Carroll

Is that four SB? That's gotta be the most since, I don't know, the mid-'80s?

Not having any luck searching at the team level, but--surprise--Rickey Henderson stole four against the Jays in G2 of the '89 ALCS.

C.C.! Maddux! Celebrity boyfriend! Once controversial president!

Atta boy Jonah

If ever there were a time

I bought a new car tonight, what did I miss?

do it for George W. Bush!

(xpost) Stolen bases.

Bush vs. McCain II

Lol

Too both

And a lot of lazy fly balls from the Rangers.

Seems like I missed a good game

Sucks

I thought you were taking a principled stand against watching this Bee. It has been a good game. What car did you get?

Started off like it was going to be 10-9 for someone, bit of a lull since.

Finally figured out what the name Ginkle reminds me of: Harry Hinkle, Jack Lemmon's character in The Fortune Cookie.

Will Smith?

Good Giant

I got a Nissan, my transmission was going out on my other one and it was time

Now that's an interesting bit of trivia...Eric Hinske, really?

I'm still pissed that there aren't any stars but I love baseball too much. Who knows how this one will end, everything has been thrown out

damn slow mo made that catch look insane

Walking the ninth place hitter...

It did--maybe an inside-the-park HR if he misses?

YEAH

John Smoltz has called everything this post season lol. Nice one SeaGOAT!

What a player he’s been for the Rangers

Even if it's a fucking ex Dodger

That ball was destroyed

Woah...I think more than have the 50 predictions I read picked Seager as the series MVP.

No stars? Seager Semien and Scherzer, Rangers got all the S(tar) boys!

Bochy is so cool

Garcia on deck...

I loooooove watching Seager smash dingers

have = half

Seaward just throwing fastballs right down the middle with no fear. Love that

Sus--I promised.

How in the hell can you root for a division foe, that doesn't register for me H.P.

God, I hope they don't trot out Chapman if there's a 10th.

But you have explained yourself but I don't get it

Very nervy--but at home, why not?

Boo

That's incredible--first AB in a month! It showed.

sadness = when you have no choice but to let austin hedges bat

Should Garcia have stayed at first there? They walk Garver and get the east out in Hedges since he was at second anyways

*easy

Seager's jolt aside, I'm getting tired here. I'm 62 and I want my ghost-runner. (Kidding.)

austin hedges?????

International Man of What's This Thing I'm Holding in My Hand Called Again?

Walk

Guessing Texas has 0 bunts this year and maybe one guy who knows how to.

i had no idea austin hedges was on this team and i'm not convinced he wasn't brought in as comic relief

Especially with a rookie

Walk.

Here we go

I'd love to see Semien snap out of this.

Not sure I would pitch to him here

Lol

Damn--so wanted to see a walk, bases loaded, two out, and Garcia.

Two on, 2-0 to Seager, I would have put money on the game ending right there.

That must be it for Leclerc, right? They either score or...can they dodge Chapman much longer?

I keep forgetting about Carter between Seager and Garcia.

Look at the bright side, it's not Kimbrel

I love that Tracer & gyac might be able to tune in during breaky.

(xpost) I think they've morphed into the same guy.

Wow

this Castro dude missing by a mile

A mate came over to watch the end. Anyways, I’ll be keeping this display name for this series I think. What a game!

This could not have ended any other way

11 inning game, that will work

La Bamba! Whatever!

incredible ending

jesus what a postseason for this guy

more like Adonis amirite

And I was momentarily bemoaning a missed walk.

Just in case you're wondering about his kix:

https://www.adidas.com/us/icon-8-boost-hispanic-heritage-cleats/IG9626.html

Figured they were going to pitch García carefully, pitches were missing by a mile, and then ... right down the middle.

I thought he had to go down and get that pitch, but you might be right--need to see it again.

yeah Castro looked like he might've had nerves or something

I think it was down but on the strike zone.

Anyway, amazing finish, that has to be one of the best ever WS G1's.

Yeah, looked to be both low and right down the middle.

Posted earlier today:

https://www.mlb.com/news/greatest-world-series-game-1s

How in the hell can you root for a division foe, that doesn't register for me H.P.

― Bee OK, Saturday, 28 October 2023 1:33 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

Dodgers have been the team to beat in the division the whole time I’ve followed them (a happy coincidence, I just decided to follow baseball one day and I have family in LA so it was the obvious choice, didn’t know they were running hot when I picked them), so don’t feel as a fan there’s anything to prove/offended by another team in the division doing well. If it was the giants or padres I’d feel different, I’m just neutral to the Rockies and Arizona because they’ve been so unthreatening for so long. Giants different for obvious historical reasons, padres for recent bush-league behaviour.

Also, I’m an international fan, so the regional rivalry thing doesn’t cross the pacific with the same strength. I’d imagine I would feel different if I was a local fan.

The dbacks beating the Yanks in 2001 is so classic to me as well so I’ve got a soft spot for playoff dbacks. Opposite for the Rangers whose post season misery I find kind of amusing (the Freeze and Bautista innings are just some of the best things ever; I watch that Bautista inning all the time). It sounds cruel to say, and I will celebrate heartily for the Rangers if they take this (sincerely)! But up to that point… sports are made great through suffering teams (as long as they aren’t yours lol)

I am watching this merely as a baseball fan though and all I’m hoping for is 7 games and don’t mind who wins. I’m not cheering for the diamondbacks, just entertained by them and want to continue to be, same goes for the Rangers. What a game what a sport ❤️

^^ cosign on all of this

"how could you root for a division rival" would be an insane question for my boomer father and presumably a lot of fans from the league loyalty era. core memory for me: my dad grew up a phillies fan but adopted the orioles after moving to maryland. during the 2008 world series, i ask him if he's excited about the phillies. he says "i'm rooting for the rays. i'm an o's fan, i root for the american league." blew my mind to hear that. i still don't really understand being that loyal to a league but having no qualms switching favorite teams. still a little jealous of it though.

i’m kinda like that. when i was growing up the national league were mysterious unknowns, the Other, which made them implacable enemies once the WS came around. the guys who had just beat you in the playoffs or the regular season, at least you knew who they were, and you had to tip your cap (unless they were the yankees obv)

Yes, we might catch the Cubs or Dodgers on the nationally televised Game of the Week, but otherwise the NL might as well have been from a different country.

Beginning in the mid-90's, interleague play together with my own team not making the playoffs for over twenty years made for some illogical rooting interests.

I didn't really have a league from '70 to '76--a favourite team hundreds of miles away, but not a league--and I don't remember ever feeling any special allegiance to the American League once the Jays came into being. Maybe I've forgotten.

As they said many times last night, the Freese game was exactly 12 years ago. If you believe in the team-of-destiny narrative, that probably felt significant. But I don't think I'd want to grab onto that in this year or facing a seemingly equally perfect team-of-destiny candidate.

The pitch that Garcia hit: dead center, bottom of the zone.

https://i.postimg.cc/QM1SvnpX/adolis.jpg

i grew up a phillies fan and definitely stanned the NL. that's who i rooted for in the all-star games obviously. the AL felt like a whole another world. why would you follow them? you never played them except in the all star game and the WS. although apparently my favorite player at age 8 was cal ripken. most importantly, the AL had the DH. the NL was a league of tradition, the AL were upstarts. AL fans will never know the feeling of having your pitcher coming through with a clutch hit!

houston being in the AL feels weird to me, as does texas having two AL teams but no NL teams. i feel like a city/state/metropolitan area (or country - hi canada!) needs that basic level of parity first = one AL team and one NL team - then you can do what you please (california, chicago/milwaukee).

i've adopted the mets because i live in flushing now, shea is so close, and in honor of morbs. luckily there hasn't been a mets/phillies post-season series of consequence afaict. although somebody goes to great lengths to maintain the wikipedia page on the rivalry. i wouldn't call the rivalry "among the most fiercely contested in the NL" though. that's the phils/braves, for which there isn't even a wikipedia page!

Watching game 2 with my new oriole supporting baseball friend convert and another friend who doesn’t know a thing about baseball tomorrow. Really hoping the newbie enjoys it (and we get another cracker game)

i should amend that and say a pitcher coming through with a clutch bunt, not hit (although that's sweet too). if i ever opened a bar i'd probably call it the bunting pitcher.

My passing familiarity with Phillies Twitter tells me they are still very much invested in the rivalry. There was a video of some of the players in the Phillies locker room doing a little chant that ended in “and ALWAYS, fuck the Mets!”

pic.twitter.com/uuybDfFzcz

— Alex Coffey (@byalexcoffey) October 13, 2023

Mets season is over, roll credits pic.twitter.com/aKiOyYMBaH

— Roll Credits Muse (@Phillies_Muse) October 10, 2022

i should amend that and say a pitcher coming through with a clutch bunt, not hit (although that's sweet too). if i ever opened a bar i'd probably call it the bunting pitcher.

Implementing the universal DH stands alongside the Manfred runner as equal crimes against the sport. Let. Pitchers. Hit!

houston being in the AL feels weird to me

i don't remember really thinking or paying attention to the mets in the 90s. the braves and the marlins were the teams to beat. admittedly i dipped out of baseball for 20 years thereafter and have only come back this year. what i'd miss?

yeah i know it's "citifield" but it's always shea in my head. there's still a gas station in the area called shea fuel (with a ripped off sheraton hotel logo).

You and Chipper Jones.

So fond of Shea Stadium where the fans heckle him, the Atlanta star named his new son after the New York Mets' ballpark Monday -- Shea Logan Jones. "I love playing there," Jones said. "Check the numbers."

Jones has hit 17 home runs at Shea, his highest total at a visiting park, and his first major league homer came there on May 9, 1995. He is a lifetime at .314 hitter at Shea.

that’s awesome. chipper, justice, mcgriff - what a lineup

yeah that was some boys of summer shit right there

too bad chipper is a sandy hook denier

I've definitely had a love/hate relationship with the division the Jays play in, both bemoaning how tough it is most years and taking...pride sounds like an overstatement, but something like that (mixed with arrogance). I did question that this year when all three AL East teams bowed out immediately.

The last time any central division team from either division reached the WS? 2016. CS? 2019. Kinda lame, can’t be happy with it, go west/east!

For anyone who's been here a while: try going back to scan a WS thread from a few years ago. I went back to the 2019 thread to check something, and it was so weird--we're going on about stuff I don't remember at all. There was an IBB issued in the first game that NoTime and I really disagreed on; huh? Lots of stuff about when to remove starting pitchers I don't remember (including, I think, Strasburg throwing a no-hitter or a shutout--I remember him being the series MVP, but not any one particular game). A controversial umpire call that James weighed in on: remember nothing. And that's only four years ago.

Maybe it's an obvious example, but I can remember Gibson's walk-off in game 1 of the 1988 WS far more clearly than I can remember anything at all about the 2021 WS, when the Braves (finally) won another one.

It's probably about context. In addition to being one of the greatest sports moments I had ever seen, that 1988 game was the last one I saw with my mom's dad. I still remember us looking at each other in disbelief that what we had just seen had happened.

I was walking the floor while working in a record store in '88 when Gibson hit that. We had a TV on...I wasn't big at all on that year's match-up, so I was only half paying attention when he hit it.

Lots of random stuff on last night's game here:

https://www.mlb.com/news/stats-facts-from-game-1-of-2023-world-series

10) Evan Longoria, who is back in the Fall Classic for the first time since 2008, became the fourth player with a World Series hit at both age 23 or younger and 38-plus, joining Eddie Murray, Pee Wee Reese and Willie Mays. It was his first World Series hit in 5,748 days, with the prior being Oct. 27, 2008. That is the longest span of days between World Series hits, per STATS. Longoria became the first position player to appear in the World Series at least 15 years after his last trip.

Gyac: corny old Joe Posnanski agrees with you:

The other day, I was interviewed by a delightful Japanese reporter, Kazumasa Masuyoshi from Kyodo News, and he asked me back-to-back questions like so:

How high can Shohei Ohtani get on the list of all-time baseball greats?

Does he need postseason play — World Series play, specifically — to get to that lofty place?

I’ve answered that first question many times already; Ohtani, the last three seasons, has done things that have never been done before, and my feeling is if he could maintain that absurd level for, say, eight-to-10 more years, he’d have to be in the discussion for greatest-ever.

The second question...well, my first impulse was to stand up for the individual, to say, “Hey, Shohei Ohtani can’t singlehandedly make a bad team good, no baseball player can do that...” And my second impulse was to think of Ted Williams, one postseason, one World Series, hit just .200 with no home runs, and we all place him in that stratosphere of all-time greats anyway (as we should).

But then, my third impulse was to say this: Yes. To reach his highest heights, Shohei Ohtani absolutely needs to not only play in the postseason but also do magical things once he gets there. Ted Williams played in a different time. Ernie Banks played in a different time. October has always been baseball’s biggest stage, but it is now baseball’s only stage.

You can win 104 games like Atlanta...and the season can feel like a bust. “How can we fix this?” a desperate Braves fan wrote to me. You can win 100-plus games like the Dodgers have the last three years and have fans desperate for change. You can be the story of baseball for six months the way the Baltimore Orioles were this year, and then, in three devastating games, become utterly forgotten.

. . . and on the flip side, my son and I are already talking about heading to Orioles spring training next year.

(And then goes on to talk about Garcia, who in three weeks has gone from “Wow, I didn’t realize this guy had that good of a year” relative anonymity to everybody who was watching last night just waiting for him to hit that HR.)

Right--from a personal perspective, I totally agree with you. The postseason is one part of a big picture.

The sport is a source of both optimism and despair in a way that I don't think others are (for me, anyway).

You have to make it to the postseason and winning over 100 guarantees you a bye but those wild card races were brutal this year. Miss out because of a bum series or ball dropped at the wrong time or being walked off has got to hurt a lot. So it’s not that the regular season doesn’t matter: it’s just that it’s the start, not the end.

(Arguably) losing a game because a veteran player missed a sign.

I think the next batter ground into a double play anyway

In the NL Championship Series, the Diamondbacks fooled the Phillies by baiting their hitters into flailing at pitches off the plate. That’s a much tougher task against the more patient Rangers, who drew 10 walks (one intentional) in Game 1 and pounced on mistakes.

Even Garcia took some tough borderline pitches last night.

"i’m kinda like that. when i was growing up the national league were mysterious unknowns, the Other, which made them implacable enemies once the WS came around.

Yes, we might catch the Cubs or Dodgers on the nationally televised Game of the Week, but otherwise the NL might as well have been from a different country. "

Growing up in Indiana in the 80s, it was just the exact opposite. With WGN and TBS, you grew up watching lots of Cubs and Braves games on TV and the occasional Reds games, usually on the road mostly the west coast trips.

It changed a bit when WGN added doing quite a few White Sox games, never as much as the Cubs. Got to think it might have been '83 when WGN added the Sox as it was the year that Fisk came over and they had Ron Kittle, Greg Walker and LaMarr Hoyt won his Cy Young. It was either 83 or the year before as that was one of the few years I remember seeing more than a few AL games other than the Saturday game of the week.

I followed baseball big time and had a Sporting News subscription for years, so I was a big time reader of box scores - but players like Brett or Wade Boggs you rarely got to see them play and never on a regular basis at all.

all star game was always so cool because you got to see all these players from the other league you had only read about.

My recollection, growing up in the northwest suburbs of chicago, was that WGN started showing White Sox games just prior to the Frank Thomas era. I got into the White Sox almost as much as the Cubs during this time, they were just an incredible fun squad. Big Hurt, Ventura, Lance Johnson, Tim Raines, Guillen, Fisk, and guys like Burks, Bo Jackson, and Julio Franco coming through. They were just an absolutely fun team. Not to mention McDowell, Alvarez, Fernandez, ancient Charlie Hough, etc as some of the starting pitchers they had at the time. That's a team that should have won at least one World series but they were hitting on all cylinders at the wrong time and half a step below several other squads.

Wasn't it a pretty common experience for the Cubs and Cardinals to have a stranglehold on the midwestern states through the '80s because of the first national TV contracts with one team? (Or were the Yankees already there?)

Or do I mean Cubs and Braves...

I think the Cards first gained a big following thanks to the strength of their radio signal.

In Denver in the 80s, we got the Cubs via WGN and the Braves via TBS. The Cubs were lovable losers, while the Braves were not lovable.

the big hurt, such a cool nickname - his card ranked high for me in my collection

much better than my nickname for Yordan Alvarez, "General Soreness"

I fell for Thomas like no player in years...I was just going to advise 龜 to take an interest in Alvarez, who feels very much like a version of Thomas (not quite there yet, but close).

Lance Johnson via Hawk Harrelson was "One Dog", he was such a fun player. I forgot the ChiSox had Tony Phillips during that era as well, he had a typically incredible 1 1/2 seasons with them in 1996-97.

I need you all to know Merrill isn’t really his first name

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cy9PSVqPXbx/

I fell for Thomas like no player in years...I was just going to advise 龜 to take an interest in Alvarez, who feels very much like a version of Thomas (not quite there yet, but close).

― clemenza, Saturday, October 28, 2023 2:01 PM (four hours ago

yeah yordan has such an easy grace to him, i heard on the broadcast he had surgeries to both knees last year and that was hard for me to believe. unfortunately i came back hating the astros because in the course of beating the phils last year my friend got me up to speed meant on 2017. now that they've lost this year i they seem more fallible so less unlikeable. i like yordan a lot, i like altuve, i like that you can be 5'6 in this game and still be a monster.

Not quite as close as I thought--will post in the Alvarez thread I started.

MLB just had Adrian Beltre on the their pre-game show (along with his son, an up-and-coming prospect). Amazing, but it's the first time I've ever heard him speak. He's throwing out the first pitch with Fergie Jenkins tonight.

I've seen very little of A-Rod/Ortiz/Jeter in the broadcast both--maybe a few minutes of each, not ever together, I don't think. In the past, we usually got an alternate broadcast to Fox's that I would watch. Anyway, I'm really enjoying them. Ortiz, talking about Garcia: "Pitchers, look at me. Do not hit this guy. It brings out his evil side, and then he's even more dangerous."

i love jordan montgomery

Hitting slumps like Semien's are so mysterious. Do consistent NBA players ever go two weeks where they lose 100-150 points off their shooting percentage?

absolutely

I hope Smoltz is right, I hope that was an attempt at a surprise hit. Bunting against Texas for one run in the third inning just doesn't make sense. (I still question the wisdom of yesterday's bunt in the third, although it was their ninth-place hitter.)

13 ways to score a runner from third without a hit, I believe. (Graduate of the Joe Garagiola/Tony Kubek school of old-school broadcasters.)

thomas pants ripped from just one slide. they gotta stop making everything out of polyester.

wow, mlb uniforms have been made from polyester since the 1970s? need to switch back to flannel.

You can't cue up Seinfeld clips for me--I'm helpless.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTQvIq0ritI

As the sportscasters up here like to say, "Jays fans, close your eyes."

love that - and buck went on to design the dback uniforms!

Fantastic play by Jung--someone needs to superimpose that on Brooks Robinson's play against Lee May in 1970.

Jays fans--you know the rest.

"Well, all of a sudden there's a problem with Tartabull's swing..."

that little puff of dust when the ball drops in the outfield - astroturf, dead giveaway. when was the last world series played where both stadiums were astroturf? i understand the modern baseball stadium eschews astroturf (bad, wrecks knees) for grass (good), except where there's a dome and no sun gets on the field.

Game is just zipping by here.

(To Smoltz): "Got a costume?"

Smoltz should absolutely alternate between Maddux and Glavine on Halloween.

The Scherzers usually have a good costume

Every walk/single a double--Texas better continue to hit some HR.

nice prompting! reverse jinx?

yes, good idea!

I feel like...God.

Oh! The ultimate ice-cream cone.

Why haven't the Diamondbacks adopted some kind of "We Are Phamily" schtick, in honor of the '79 Pirates?

Ah, that's why.

No way.

How does montegomery have no strikeout through 6? Crazy!

what about a Who schtick based on Tommy (Walker). 2 birds with that one

i had Rangers in 6 going into the series, just ftr

I think they're about to lay claim to "Kelly's Heroes."

Shocked Montgomery's still in there...That's got to be it.

Bochy's magic touch one (or maybe two) batters late.

Objectively, that bunt definitely worked out.

Man, the Rangers are getting fooled up there...So weird to see two starting pitchers go so deep in a WS game. I'd like to think a page has been turned, but I doubt it. Think both kept their pitch count down tonight.

Texas' defense has probably kept them in the game.

Kelly pitched an absolute gem. Everything right on the edge of the zone. Dominant performance solely responsible for getting the dbacks back into this World Series. Can’t get enough credit

Both a great game to get my bone baseball friend into the game (corner pitching is impressive) and a bad game for it (where was the back and forth like yesterday). Definitely a great game, really enjoyed what both teams were able to do. For a moment there was a possibility we’d get a CG from both teams

Now that it's basically over, would you call that a great game? Kelly pitched great, but I'm not sure if anything else will be remembered, and now it's a rout.

It was 6 innings of a great game followed by 3 innings of a great game for diamondback fans in particular. Wouldn’t call it a bad one by any means. Happy to see the series tied up

Very interested to see what the Rangers get out of Scherzer on Monday. Don't mean to sound cold, but I don't know how far "Well, Max has been hurt, and it's amazing he's even out there" will go this time. They need five pretty strong innings from him (two runs or less, let's say).

what about a Who schtick based on Tommy (Walker). 2 birds with that one

― francisF, Saturday, October 28, 2023 6:43 PM bookmarkflaglink

Christian Walker didn't come home
His unscored run will never know him
He's believed to be LOB with a number of men
Don't expect to see him again

brilliant! lolol

Even Garcia took some tough borderline pitches last night.

Everybody is talking about the homer.

I want to talk about the take.

It was the bottom of the third inning. The Rangers had coughed up an early 2-0 lead as the Diamondbacks’ speed tore some holes in their defense. A Corey Seager walk and an Evan Carter double brought Adolis Garcia to the plate with two outs and two on, down 3-2. Zac Gallen was 55 pitches into the game and had gotten just eight outs.

Gallen started Garcia with a changeup down, and Garcia caught the top of the ball, fouling it off. A couple of fastballs up and in put Gallen behind. He came back with a cutter middle-middle at 91, freezing Garcia to run the count to 2-2.

Now Gallen went to the pitch that was supposed to get him to the dugout, a knuckle curve that dropped under the zone and Garcia’s bat path. It’s the pitch that undercut Garcia earlier in his career. Back in 2021, he saw 223 breaking balls in the lower third or just below the zone. He swung at more than 60% of them and missed on 42% of those swings. He hit .143 with a .317 slugging on those pitches. Pitchers could go down with soft stuff and get him to chase.

Now, in 2023, he’s just enough better at those pitches to give himself a fighting chance. He chases those same breaking balls down a bit less, and when he does, he makes better contact: .250 average, .456 slugging. Overall, he’s posted the lowest chase rate and highest contact rate of his career. All of that work came to a head as Gallen’s 2-2 knuckle curve in the first game of the World Series began dipping out of the zone. Two years ago, it’s a swinging strike three. Tonight, it was ball three.

Garcia would then take a changeup low and walk down to first base. Mitch Garver drew a walk to force in a run to tie the game at three. We’ll never know how things play out in alternate timelines, but if Garcia chases that 2-2 breaker, the inning ends, the Rangers don’t score, and maybe we’re talking about how Corey Seager’s two-run homer was too little, too late. Maybe Garcia never even gets to take a 3-1 sinker oppo for a walkoff home run.

The home run is the highlight. The take, though, the take is all the work that went into making the highlight. Adolis Garcia is the player he is today not because he was DFA’d twice, he’s the player he is because of everything he did to get better after that.

great take by Sheehan.

Speaking of borderline, good lord everything Kelly threw was on the corner this series! I was disgusted in the Dodgers series how every diamondbacks pitcher seemed to be able to locate the edge of the zone (any edge) with literally every pitch and thought it was a fluke and just some bad luck to the Dodgers.... but they've just kept doing it this whole post season. It's exhilarating to watch (when it's not your team on the receiving end!)

I should clarify, it was the edges, not corners Kelly was living on last game. Can't wait for game 3 in snake country!

Xps re Garcia, I don’t know if you remember the Rangers series at Fenway but he pretty impressively showed this in real time during Bello’s game. He hit a home run off him and didn’t try for Bello’s changeup & instead cracked a 2-run homer off his sinker. But I looked back at his previous two ABs that game and the first one he was flailing at the low changeup and eventually struck out, second one was a flyout on a changeup. Sheehan otm with the significance basically.

I thought these were identical, but Jung's might be better; Robinson is able to throw without ever hitting the ground, whereas Jung has to first pick himself up

Jung, 2023: https://www.mlb.com/video/christian-walker-grounds-out-sharply-third-baseman-josh-jung-to-first-bas?partnerId=web_video-game-index-page_video-share

Robinson, 1970: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_XHZbhR9qc

Or else Robinson, like Devon White, is just better at making the impossible look routine.

There was a good piece about Evan Longoria’s bunt in the Athletic:

Longoria came to bat in the third inning, with no score, after Alek Thomas’ leadoff walk. He knew that Jordan Montgomery, the Rangers’ 6-foot-6 starter, is not a nimble fielder. Since he was struggling for hits, Longoria thought, why not bunt?

Here’s why: Longoria never bunts. Not in games, not in spring training, not even a courtesy bunt or two at the start of his batting practice rounds. In 8,395 previous plate appearances, postseason included, Longoria had exactly one sacrifice bunt, for the Tampa Bay Rays in 2014. And yet …

“I bunted so much in college; we just had to do it every day,” said Longoria, who played for Long Beach State. “So even if I hadn’t done it in forever, I feel like it’s a part of my toolbag.”

Longoria was bunting for a hit, he explained, and he didn’t get it. But he moved Thomas to second and got credit for a sacrifice. And when he came to bat in the seventh, after Thomas’ leadoff double, the Rangers remembered.

Third baseman Josh Jung moved up on Longoria, positioning himself on the edge of the dirt and the turf. He acknowledged that the third-inning bunt was on his mind.

“Yeah, just in case,” Jung said. “In hindsight, probably shouldn’t be up there. But that’s baseball. It happens.”

It happened in 1980, and it happened again on Saturday: Longoria smashed a single off Jung’s glove to bring Thomas home, pushing Arizona’s lead to 3-1. The hit chased Montgomery, and the Diamondbacks soon singled and bunted their way to six more runs.

Probably the most incredible part of Robinson's play in 1970 is how quickly he released the ball.

When I watch old clips I'm amazed at how much stronger shortstops and third baseman can throw compared with fielders from even 20 years ago. I think (not based on any evidence, just a feeling) that plays like Robinson's can't happen much anymore because *everyone* hits the ball much harder than in the 70's, there's just no time for a third baseman to cover that much ground.

Jung's play was the apex of modern day fielding at third -- the ball was *smoked*, he had to react much quicker, lay out, and unleash a ridiculous laser throw for the out.

(you can't cheat a bit by bouncing throws like in the 70's and 80's either, because almost nobody plays on turf anymore)

Nostalgia's a powerful drug, but yeah, I suspect just about every aspect of the game is played at a higher level today (except bunting, of course, Diamondbacks excepted).

(As I posted on the Blue Jays thread a while back--and I try not to even think about this--there's a very real possibility that Matt Chapman is a better player than Brooks Robinson.)

Players do get better over time, but I was also trying to say that certain skills get phased out while new skills develop. Older players might have been better at certain things, but only because modern players no longer need to master those skills (bunting is a perfect example).

Umpire Quinn Wolcott missed 12 calls in World Series Game 2 and 10 went against the Rangers.

Wolcott was the top rated regular season ump, but this was his 3rd worst game of the season.

He had a correct call rate of 91.2% (league avg. 92.5%). https://t.co/Nzbat08B7c pic.twitter.com/Zk99UbFfnO

— Umpire Auditor (@UmpireAuditor) October 29, 2023

Umpscorecard rates him similarly poorly but the info is much easier to understand IMO

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F9nSr8cWoAANtnf?format=jpg&name=large

yeah i posted the tweet because it had a video of the missed calls

every year they find a new way to pull this shit

i would honestly prefer they just start selling screen space over this imaginary AR experience. just slap a big coca cola logo in the bottom left of the screen and keep it there for 3 hours, whatever.

there were couple of kids in banana suits behind the AR capital one logo yesterday. on one hand, i felt kinda bad cuz those seats must have been 5 figures, spending that much just to get blacked out by capital one. on the other hand, obviously their parents could afford them so whatever, just a bunch of literal nepo babies.

Quinn Wolcott was secretly paying tribute to Joe West, nominated for the HOF last week.

Older players might have been better at certain things, but only because modern players no longer need to master those skills (bunting is a perfect example).

No sarcasm here, genuinely wondering what older players would have done better. Bunting, for sure--exponentially. Going the opposite way to move a runner along. Executing a hit-and-run. The list would heavily be weighted toward "small ball" strategies. Pitching? That's harder...maybe moving batters off the plate? I won't say pitching deep into a game, because a) it was a lot easier 50 years ago (maybe two or three HR threats per lineup instead of six or seven), and b) that's still the manager's call. Fielding, I don't know.

Older players were probably better at playing hungover.

Bouton...remembered Mickey Mantle, hungover on the bench, asked to pinch hit. Somehow, Mantle hit a homerun and dragged himself around the bases. “They’ll never know how hard that was,” Mantle said back in the dugout.

https://www.theattic.space/home-page-blogs/2020/5/8/the-book-that-befouled-baseball#:~:text=Enter%20Ball%20Four.,season%2C%20he%20told%20no%20one.

No sarcasm here, genuinely wondering what older players would have done better.

Modern players are better in general, but other skills have evolved, such as the small ball strategies you mentioned. Players today aren't asked to do those things, so they're not good at doing them.

For SP's, pacing oneself to be able to pitch into the late innings used to be important, but it's not anymore. It's not that older pitchers were better or tougher or more durable, it's just a different game now. In the 70's and 80's, most teams had 2-3 banjo hitters in the lineup and the SP didn't need to use his best stuff. That helps a lot for pitching late into games. It's obviously not like that anymore.

It's the same with hitters. Hardly anyone hits .300 anymore, why not? It's all about making hard contact now and there isn't a stigma around K's like there used to be. But it's also true (up until the 1990's and perhaps beyond) that if you knocked out the SP, you could feast on the bullpen. Now even the 12th pitcher on the staff throws 95. There are no banjo hitters or junkballing pitchers in the game. Hitting for average isn't a lost skill.

Maybe I got off topic here, but it's an interesting discussion.

The World Series meets Immaculate Grid:

https://www.mlb.com/news/all-30-teams-represented-in-2023-world-series

(I wonder if that's common or rare.)

just me or does every picture of chris young look computer generated?

https://cdn.theathletic.com/app/uploads/2023/10/29223557/GettyImages-1762110225-1024x683.jpg

Chris Young is 6-10. This afternoon, MLB has had both Aaron Judge (6-7, Clemente winner) and Randy Johnson (6-10, throwing out the first pitch tonight) on their pre-game panel. No one asked either guy about Frank Howard (6-7), who died earlier today.

I have two or three of that Max rookie card they just flashed on the screen, bought pretty cheaply online just before he took off for the stratosphere in Washington.

2011 World Series: Rangers vs Cardinals

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I know--that's a board-wide thing.

JUNG

really felt like sherzer was on the ropes - quite a turnaround

I've probably encountered a better arm for a third baseman, but I don't remember who it was. (Is Arenado so great because of his arm? I hardly ever see him.)

(xpost) He doesn't seem long for this game.

That sure looked like strike three.

Probably tautological, but Texas has a great offense when they lay off low breaking balls (G1) and a terrible offense when they swing at them (G2).

wow this game changed in a hurry

smoltz saying as soon as semien took a ball the other way he’d get on track

semien pulls a ball into the gap, drives in the first run of the game

texas can really wreck shop

So much for Max.

at least the cut on his thumb has healed

If we get to game 7 and continue posting on rate, we might hit those 2011 numbers Clem!

Just tuning in now. Scherzer gave up no runs?!!!! How’s Pfaadt been? Smoltz not missing again? The man is on.

Mathematically, you might be right. Just felt like there was so much posting going on 12 years ago--maybe it was just more people doing the posting.

Man, that arm on Jung. No nickname yet; have to put a psychology-related nickname aside and go with something about his arm.

5.1 with 3 runs on this Texas team? Quality start in my books

xp It's hard to make a word play with "synchronicity" or "collective unconscious."

this ump is all over the place - can’t wait to see the scorecard tomorrow

Synchronicity--there's your nickname right there.

Balls and strikes have been poor tonight, to my eyes (for both teams).

love castro’s snakeskin belt - at least i think its snakeskin - what else could it be?

Great "sweeper" (new cliché) by Castro for the second out.

Texas needs Jon Gray not to remember he's a mediocre roster-filler for one more inning.

gray’s got a nice mizuno glove, i like that. league seems to be rawlings/wilson mainly, so good to see some variety

maybe semien should switch to a mizuno - might have actually caught that then

Seemed like a generous hit, or at least in slow motion it did...I guess it was hit pretty hard.

PFAADT and SBORZ in the same game, finally

Pham-tastic

Tommy Pham to do absolutely nothing

Currently a possible MVP--on the field, and he's even got some narrative going for him.

The moment I've so not been looking forward to: Aroldis warming up.

This has the feel of a looming Arizona comeback unless Texas adds a run or two...which they won't do in the 8th now. They were really lucky to get out of that second inning. Seager hit the home run, and they haven't done anything since.

Seriously, get Chapman out of there after Carroll. I know Bochy has to manage the bullpen with an eye on Tuesday and Wednesday, but winning tonight gets you a game 6 at least, and that's more important.

ooh its gettin good now

well must be nice to get all 3 outs in the span of like 45 seconds

Jesus...an absolutely brilliant pitch for a strikeout, and then an incredible DP. Living on borrowed time, but Texas might hold on.

Okay finally got a work break. Dbacks come back let’s go!!!!!!

Ooooh base touching controversy, love these

Tommy Pham is that man. Slapping Joc? Definite dick move, besides that event, I don’t really care about the morality of the bloke. He’s got that Madbum “I take everything deathly seriously” temperament, but it doesn’t annoy me as much on him (probably because he’s not a Gont)

Giant*

Nice story him giving the AB to the young buck last night

Gont

Something I know won’t win me any friends in this thread: I like all these fellas in silly costumes sitting behind home plate this series. If you’re gonna spend the big buck, make the most of it and have some fun. Hope to see the banana boys again in game 6

They Might Be Gonts.

Works for me

https://i.postimg.cc/B6P7sXsn/IMG-4117.png

My welsh heritage speaking through the unconscious mind

Who is John Gont?

Pham walk-off incoming

one small step for man, one gont leap for mankind

If Pham does come up with two on, I want him to give up his AB to a little-used teammate who's never had the thrill of the World Series spotlight.

Another missed call.

There were Gonts in the earth in those days

How has Texas stayed in this post season with Leclerc pitching. Luckiest pitcher alive right now.

Garbage call

I think he missed that one too.

They did even up--missed strike, missed ball.

Lol

https://i.postimg.cc/SxWyQxSV/IMG-4118.png

Way to ruin a good inning ump

I irrationally hate Leclerc

It’s not his fault, but he just continues to pitch in incredibly frustrating innings. Not fun to watch

If you miss two pitches, one for each side, it's a wash. I know it affects the psychological procession of the AB, but I don't think you can say the net effect was big. The AB should have unfolded 1-0, 1-1, 2-1, 2-2, and then the 5th pitch would have been a called strike three. I think I have that right.

? He's been awesome his last two times out.

Good Series so far.

Nothing's a wash in baseball, blow up your example to a whole AB/inning/game and tell me calling balls and strikes as opposites doesn't effect anything. On the biggest stage, the first AB of the 9th with the potential comeback, calling pitches like that is really poor form. Would love to see an analysis of AB results on a falsely called 2-strike pitch vs correctly called 2 strike pitch. My (limited) viewing experience tells me to expect an out 19/20 when it's called wrong

I said it was irrational!

Great series

I'm watching Jon Gray on the post-game show. Steroids and personalities aside, it must be amazing for a player to sit there between A-Rod, Ortiz, and Jeter. That's 9,000 hits and 1,500 HR.

The whole game, sure. We're talking one AB. If he calls the second pitch correctly, the batter's never ahead in the count.

I'd say it's been a good series, far from a great one thus far. G1 was classic, G2 was okay for a while and then a blowout, G3 was better, with some great defense, but interchangeable with hundreds of other WS games.

yeah I do think when a hitter gets an obviously bad strike call it messes with their head in the exact way you really don't want to have your head messed with

I agree, but wouldn't Moreno also have gotten a big psychological boost when he found himself sitting on a 2-0 pitch instead of 1-1?

Positive feedback vs. negative feedback ain’t equal

^^the main reason I don’t think it’s a wash and despise negative make up calls. If you screwed it up ump, own it, and don’t screw it up more

Disagree, but whatever the case, seems like a stretch to give this one pitch undue weight as to why they lost. Far more important was Walker running through the stop sign in the second.

yeah that was a real boner

Oh yeah, it's not the reason they lost at all. Didn't see that, will have to watch the highlights

for all the randomness of the postseason - BECAUSE of the randomness of the postseason - you need to be pretty much perfect with your fundamentals to eke any tiny edge you can get

Sheehan-ILX mind-meld on how good infielders have gotten:

Infield defense has become so good that we don’t think about it any more. We just expect plays to be made on these rockets, expect balls that don’t get through the dirt to become routine outs. Infielders now turn double plays with lethal efficiency, with even players we don’t immediately think of as wizards, like Seager, able to make plays. I mentioned using a time machine on Merrill Kelly, taking him back to the 1980s. Do the same with Seager, an average shortstop in our game, and he’d challenge Ozzie Smith for Gold Gloves each year. The baseline level of athleticism has risen slowly over time so that we don’t notice it. Today’s infielders, today’s infields, are out machines, though, even hampered by ill-conceived rules that dictate they position themselves poorly.

The lesson? Hit the ball up. I have been screaming this on Slack all month. You have to hit the ball up. Seager and Marte hit the same rocket last night. One hit it up for two runs, the other hit it down for two outs. Groundballs are death. Hit the ball up.

Texas must have made four plays last night that are described by that paragraph.

Have a feeling this will go seven. Both teams looked unbeatable last week, but they've both come down to earth a bit, highlighting weaknesses and an inconsistency that are more in keeping with the regular season.

adolis out :(

That sucks!

No posts? Working for today and tomorrows game, productivity has been destroyed by this series. The dbacks got caught stealing, they’re human!

Bullpen game! Is Heaney aiming for a full start or is he just an opener too?

Going to try and watch tonight's game but I have been busy. If it was the Giants or something I would have made time

Looks like I picked the right game

Rangers doing Rangers things again

i feel like, if you're trying to win the world series - you should have a starter.

Damn missed it, time to rewind

Seager

Let's go Gonts

Okay I caught up, Castro really ain’t having a series hey?

A series of unfortunate events maybe

If semein can stay alive for the rest of this series it’s gonna be tough for the dbags

Corey Seager, so hot right now

Cmoooon dbags, can’t be doing that!

ohhh it is just all unraveling now

crazy stat from before: the last time the Rangers won 9 straight road games was in 2013. assuming this holds it's gonna be 10 straight in the postseason

Nice at bat

Damnit dbags!

Cut that hair jankowski!!!

That is insane

Xpost

Mercy rangers, mercy

Wow

WAS THAT BOCHY SMILING?!?!?!?

OK, this isn't even fun.

Yup

Rangers new Texan villains

lol, dang

Trust Texas to ruin a World Series

my god, it's only the 3rd inning

Spalding Gray - Texas Joke

Was following along (no sound) while bowling. Last thing I expected, especially with Garcia out.

Not that I want to question the Greek God of When to Remove a Pitcher, but I'm not sure I get removing Heany (unless 80 pitches is his limit). Maybe they want to have him available for an all-hands-in Game 7, but every inning he pitches saves the bullpen an inning.

well at least Arizona did something

Blue Jay, etc., etc.

There is a tiny part of me that would like to see Texas lose this for making all these pitching changes in an--or what was--an 11-1 game.

Paper aeroplane throwing contest mid World Series game is pretty funny. What other sport is that happening in?

Pitching change to start the inning? Piss of Bochy

It’s still a long way, but credit the dbags making this interesting!

Wtf Bochy, let it end

If enough people tell you you're a genius, you start to believe it. This seems silly to me, and by the end of the game, he will have used seven pitchers in a blowout win. Maybe he's just bored.

Good

My irrational hate for Leclerc now extends to the entire Rangers Organisation for the next 24hrs

He's one or two baserunners away from having to worry about the win.

(Irrational, yes--I haven't understood this. You picked them to win at the beginning.)

See ya’ll tomorrow, hopefully for a better game.

Pick doesn’t necessarily mean want. That’s the joy of being neutral, you can feel what you want!

Irrational is by definition, beyond logical understanding. I’m just following the wind as it blows

Still not discounting a seven-game series if Arizona can send it back to Texas. So I hope they close it out tomorrow--I wouldn't want to let them back in (like they almost did tonight).

No surprise, I guess: the first three games were the least watched ever. Game 4 probably hasn't been incorporated into the page yet. (You'll have to wade through the various tables.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Series_television_ratings

I don't know how to square this with online viewership--if added, maybe that makes a tangible difference.

I don't blame the two teams--they're a small part of the lack of interest, but--putting aside 2020--you can see a straight line down from the Cubs winning in 2016.

My own frame of reference would be 1975, Game 6: 41 million. (Game 7, carrying over, was watched by 51 million.) Not sure why--I don't think it's considered an especially memorable series--55 million watched the final game in 1980 between the Phillies and Royals. (Only thing I remember from that series: Rose playing in at third, daring Willie Wilson to bunt, and snatching a line drive off Wilson's bat at some point.)

"Blame" is obviously the wrong word. "Link that to" would be better.

https://awfulannouncing.com/ratings/mlb-national-viewership-disappoints-2023.html

seems pretty simple - when the big market teams don't do well viewership drops?

otoh, in-person attendance was up 10% even at season end after big market teams were mostly out of contention: https://www.mlb.com/news/mlb-attendance-mlb-tv-post-big-numbers-in-2023

so idk

The thing that suggests otherwise to me (meaning that's a factor but it's more of a general trend) is that straight line down starting in 2016:

Chicago/Cleveland > Houston/L.A. > Boston/L.A. > Washington/Houston > Atlanta/Houston > Houston/Philadelphia > Texas/Arizona (so far)

I skipped 2020, the COVID year, where there was a steep drop. Also, that sequence starts with a huge story, the Cubs winning their first Series in 100+ years. And the ubiquity of Houston probably has an effect. But it does seem like a bigger problem than who's playing.

If you think it's a problem, that is. I know that right on this board people have argues that WS ratings are nothing more than a sideshow.

"argued"

I've been turning off the games at 9:15 to watch horror movies the last few nights tbh - I'm not invested in either team and it was spooky season.

Is 9:15 some kind of secret Satanic symbol?

Enjoyed Harold Reynolds' MLB interview with Junior about his photography. Had to check--never played in a World Series. Damn.

Also this, from Marcus's "Real Life" column posted earlier today:

6. Geico Insurance, “Umpire” (Martin Agency). Ken Griffey, Jr., and Melissa Griffey have a nice new house on a tree-lined street with the Geico house commercials’ just-one-problem: the “little-opinionated” next-door neighbor, big, white, former MLB balls-and-strikes majordomo Jim Joyce in full regalia. He peeps in the window and calls strike one, strike two, for invisible transgressions. He kicks leaves dropped by the Griffeys’s tree back in their front yard. Finally he takes offense to Ken’s shirt, Melissa tells him he needs glasses. He pumps his arm in the air and shouts “YOU’RE OUTTA HERE!” and banishes them from the neighborhood as if he’s burning a cross on their lawn. Secret BLM commercial? Or coded appeal to the Great Replacement demographic? The more it’s appeared throughout the playoffs the more the balance seems to tip to the right.

link to reynolds interview?

those geico commercials play every break - kind of annoying

I'll post one if I find anything.

I'm amazed at how Arizona's able to run at will.

Is this what the 2015 royals were like? I know they were famously a small ball team causing chaos in the world series

They were a great contact team, but I don't remember them stealing bases like this.

very annoying how prevalent the "he HAS to get it done here, it's SO IMPORTANT to score first!" rhetoric is. I get the reasoning, but there's 25 more outs left if Moreno gets out. maybe take a break for a few innings before this emotional leverage talk

gallen’s got some nice cleats on today

2015 Royals: stole seven bases for the series (5 games), struck out 37 times--both a little more than I thought.

“Defence is the new market inefficiency” was the claim I hard in response to the royals win

*heard

I love Corbin Carroll

Another round of “this is the inning” Francis

Stealing even when he can’t, just for fun

This dbacks team is so much fun to watch

We'll see, but once again, I question that. Even if you bring in both runs, you won't beat Texas with two. If you get one or zero, not good.

And to state the obvious, they let a guy having a good postseason bunt to they could get to a guy who's been cold the whole way.

Lol, first inning repeat. Texas shutting them down

Perdomo having a post season

3.2 on 29 pitches! Give us a CS Zach!

Two nasty strikes right there

good on Ketel to trust his first baseman "who just struck out!" who is this announcer, lol

Great half inning

I'm putting on records - this is why i can't listen to national broadcasts haha

I think, in general, the disappearance of the sacrifice bunt from baseball is a bad thing. There are many times during the course of a season when, late in a game, I don't understand why a team doesn't bunt (acknowledging that it's probably because the guy with the bat in his hand doesn't know how to). But when I see it used like it was last inning, I suddenly turn into a hardcore, eye-rolling sabermetrician (or, if you'd rather, Earl Weaver); I want the other team to come out and mash a home run or three.

Griffey Jr. link for 龜: https://www.mlb.com/video/griffey-on-his-photography-career

Eovaldi makes me think of John Malkovich in Rounders: "The kid's got alligator blood" (needs the accent).

wtaf @ greil marcus

Say Hey Kid (almost).

Great catch (also we’re now over halfway to a WS no-no)

Eovaldi is being Houdini

LP

Incredibly frustrating to watch the dbags squander it every inning

I was just going to post that Gurriel had a flair for the dramatic with the Jays...never got the chance.

I hope this game keeps my interest as I have been tuning out in the blow out games

This feels like the first really good game since the first.

It really does

It's Arizona, so there is no way this will be a no no. Texas will break through

So bizarre the two paths to zero runs.

I'm starting to feel torn at this point...almost ready to trade the win for Gallen to do it, and hope that Texas can win it at home (obviously preferable), but if you let Arizona back into the series, could easily see the Diamondbacks going back to Texas and winning both. And I do want Texas to win.

Eovaldi's close to 100 pitches, so I assume this inning is his last (they'd probably want him available for an inning in a G7).

That's a good take because they did win the last two against the Phillies, who I still believe are the better team.

Xpost

There it is

there goes the no no

And now outs

I wanted to go Sam Jackson on the play-by-play guy: "Say 'no-hitter' one more time. I dare you--I double-dare you." I still honour that myth.

(Superstition, not myth.)

I love baseball

That was fast

I must be getting the game on a slight delay--Bee's posts appear before the actual play.

I actually do hope the D-backs win one at home

And then that's it

And yes, that was incredibly fast.

Plus we need better games

No no to being taken out

But only one run on the board

Being an elimination game, I think you've got to take him out. The first hit was cheap, the other two were solid.

I agree that he needed to be taken out there

The old-fashioned rundown! Maybe the one play that players have been (usually) flawlessly executing for decades.

Good play to throw him out at home and now one advancing

Or yeah

Yikes...

Every time I write no it has been getting auto corrected to now, lol

Two of those pitches were air-mailed. I've seen this movie a few times.

Chapman is still throwing hard

101, how old is he?

Close to as hard as ever, but I just don't think he knows where it's going half the time now.

Or rather, it feels like he has been playing for a long time now

35, 14th season.

Bochy and his bullpen. It can go either way but at times like these, it seems to work out for him.

Good play

One more run would be a godsend. (Semien's really come around the past three games.)

ginkel has a nokona glove - begrudgingly gotta root for him

You don't want Seager to beat you,so a walk is fine

Ginkel is amazing

Ice water in his veins

He really is

The Inning That Haunts You the Next Morning.

Blew it right past him

Arizona has more of them than Texas at this point. I don’t know if they have a run in them

Four more outs

There is something

Bet he runs first pitch.

If the Rangers win I wonder if the parade goes through downtown Arlington (lol) or Dallas.

Longoria can always hit but hasn't done anything in this series

So good move!

?

This tension is fun

Damn

What a pitch

9th inning

Filthy pitch.

So Leclerc will, I assume, close, having pitched that completely pointless part-inning yesterday.

Bunt. If the next hitter has any clue how to, bunt.

Or maybe not.

How did he miss that ball?

(Kidding aside, that was exactly the kind of situation where I would bunt. Moot now.)

I think he had his mind on the throw before he took care of the ball.

And that'll do it.

Wow

RIP

If not for Seager, I imagine Semien would be the MVP. Really admire him, the way he plays.

Salt in wounds

"No team has ever won a WS game having gone six innings with no hits and no runs."

Large sample size, I'm sure.

semien was a void until the last two games!

(i like him too tho)

I thought it was the last three, but you're right, he's still only at .224 for the series.

Actually, check that, he's much better than that...will figure it out after the game.

The right team won

They did, I still can’t help feel disappointed

Great win, what a story. How does Bochy do it?

i like bochy well enough and am always happy for max but honestly i don't really care about this at all. good team, nowhere near the best team. also fuck texas

Otm

another of baseball's great ironies - the hitter with the longest post-season hitting streak records the final out of the world series that also breaks his streak

(i think i got that right)

OTM

Especially the "fuck Texas" part

Xxpost

Two good game out of five

As a good Colorado kid, I am always on board for a hearty "fuck Texas."

Tom Verduci: what made you want to be a Texas ranger?
Nathan Eovaldi: I mean……. Money?

otm

Can’t help but laugh at max getting a ring here lol. Mid season trades really just a lottery for who is going to luck into getting a ring

(No negativity intended, happy for him and anyone that manages to get one, unless they’re Astros)

I think Texas is a very credible WS winner. Only won 92, outscored their opponents enough to win 96, awesome offense, lost their best starter for the season, lost Scherzer and Garcia for most of the series. They remind me of a few other overdue teams from history, like the Senators in 2019. They're not the best team, no, but I'm a lot happier that they won than the team with 84 wins (who were lucky to win that many). Arizona did great to get there, and I won't be inconsistent in my belief that the postseason isn't the sole measure of anything, but if Texas and Arizona played 162 games, I think Texas would win close to 90 of them.

Semien: 9-24, .292/.292/.625, 2 HR, 8 RBI.

ya, my thoughts too. better than the Astros.
xpost

I'd say the series overall was middling. Two great games, two blowouts, and one that was nothing special in the middle.

Tom Verduci: what made you want to be a Texas ranger?
Nathan Eovaldi: I mean……. Money?

I laughed watching this too, "I joined for 20 million reasons, and 20 million reasons only, Tom."

boo's for the commish

love to see NHL shining through to MLB

'thanks for this hunk of metal'

How nice for Jacob deGrom.

Good job BB

Can’t help but laugh at max getting a ring here lol.

And DeGrom!

$500k-ish bonus, fun way for Evan Carter to double his rookie salary.

"like the Senators in 2019"--not that my mind's living back in 1970.

We get it clemenza, you’re old

;)

Bottom line is I'm happy for Bochy. It's almost not fair to just show up and win it all in the first year out of retirement.

Tip my cap

Still forever Giant

Feels like he's beyond reproach at this point, but I thought he led something of a charmed life during this series at least--thought he got away with overmanaging yesterday. But I disagreed even more with some of Lovullo's preemptive bunting.

Can’t help but laugh at max getting a ring here lol. Mid season trades really just a lottery for who is going to luck into getting a ring

― #1 García Fan (H.P), Wednesday, November 1, 2023 11:12 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

tbf he did waive his NTC for the express purpose of playing on a competitive team

As mentioned nothing against it! Just funny that this hof’er rode on the coattails of this scrappy team to another ring. Good for him!

No Zona ring for Bumgarner

Lol

Ridiculous, sure (xpost)

Scrappy maybe the descriptor, but you get the sentiment

Would Arizona have been the first team to win the WS with an negative run differential during the regular season?

That came up earlier. The '87 Twins won: 786 runs, 806 runs allowed.

They're not the best team, no, but I'm a lot happier that they won than the team with 84 wins (who were lucky to win that many)

How many regular season games of theirs did you watch, just out of curiosity? Because the win total never reflected their season - they had a bad stretch that tanked their numbers but they were good on either side of that.

“Jeez, I was sittin’ in a recliner a year ago. What happened?!” 😂 @Rangers pic.twitter.com/Y17jVGIoT6

— Flippin' Bats Podcast (@FlippinBatsPod) November 2, 2023

Have to feel for ZG though, pitching a gem and his teammates not getting it done, 11 left on base and 0 for 9 in risp is horrific

so glad for Semien. and it wasn’t just today. He got clutch hit after clutch hit yesterday too.

Was invisible for most of the postseason though, Heim was more important to their chances IMO

it’s a redemption arc!

Semien has been one of the very best hitters in baseball so it’s nice to see him get his due

bWAR, 2019-2023

Shohei Ohtani      30.6
Mookie Betts       29.7
Marcus Semien      29.0
Aaron Judge        27.9
Juan Soto          25.7

Wow I would not have picked him to be even top 5 on that list. Good for him

How many regular season games of theirs did you watch, just out of curiosity? Because the win total never reflected their season - they had a bad stretch that tanked their numbers but they were good on either side of that.
― mojo dojo casas house (gyac)

I think those games count too...Anyway, you might want to direct these kinds of questions here:

but honestly i don't really care about this at all. good team, nowhere near the best team. also fuck texas
― mookieproof

I said Texas is a very credible WS winner. But if you think Texas is "nowhere near the best team," by extension, I'm thinking you have next to no regard for the team that was just convincingly beat by them in five games.

I’m not sure why I should answer for a post I didn’t make

Ya’ll are talking past each other. The bad games count, how good they are depends on what sample size you use to categorise good. Clem thinks April to November, others take a different approach. Been mulled over, new topics please!

(xpost) I don't get that...Anyway, I'm just saying that you're focussing your ire or disappointment or whatever on me for saying I didn't want a team with 84 wins to win the WS instead of someone who, I'm guessing from the comment I highlighted, thinks even less of them than that. And asking me how many games I saw them play seems really weird. I watch the Jays, don't have an mlb.com subscription--how would I watch the D-backs? I didn't see Ronald Acuna or Mookie Betts play much this year either, but I'm using their records to deduce that they played really well. And I've seen a lot of Arizona the past two or three weeks.

(I will clarify that I think your approach lacks a bit of nuance Clem, but I’ll defer that thought to your many more years of baseball wisdom and my hopeless optimism. The disagreement probably is reducible down to us using different definitions of “good baseball team”)

xp not really, but that that 84 win total isn’t reflective of their quality as a team. That’s why I asked did you watch them in the regular season. I won’t argue that they played like shit in the WS and deserved to lose.

I also don’t really understand why mookieproof’s opinion is being quoted at me.

I'm trying to point out--doesn't matter, forget it. On to awards and the HOF.

By your own logic, clem, an 84 win team who swept the Dodgers with ease are even worse their record - being 2 games over .500 - suggests? Is that really what the argument is? I just can’t understand that. If I’ve misunderstood I’m all ears.

He never said that?

Shohei Ohtani 30.6
Mookie Betts 29.7
Marcus Semien 29.0
Aaron Judge 27.9
Juan Soto 25.7

That is pretty amazing--would have guessed Freeman (24.4) for sure, and maybe one of Goldschmidt or Arenado or Machado.

Degrom being out all season and then watching his team win the world season without him has got to be so cruel for a guy as talented as he is, and is running out of time to establish his HOF candidacy. Him in the rotation dominating this post season probably improves his standing. But he also needs to stay healthy and be awesome for at least 5 more years.

His one short cut might--might--be winning a third Cy Young, if you believe in the rule-of-three as an automatic (non-PED) HOF pass. But yeah, being a core part of the this year's team would have helped him a lot there.