giants roster [aka all things GIANTS thread]

sabean is good at picking up pieces. he had a streak of bad luck last winter picking up durham (injury plagued), cruz (minor league offensively), and alfonzo (ice cold through the all-star break). he may surprise the giants fans by st. valentine's day.

nen is supposedly throwing albeit not hard. i'd be suprised if he doesn't lose 5mph off his fastaball considering he had the same surgery twice in 6 months.

worrell became unaffordable. i agree with sabean, he was a great stand-in, but with his contract up, he priced himself out of the giants current budget. they resigned matt herges who proved to be a more effective pitcher than worrell last season.

The Giants are really leaning heavily on pitching this year and I guess that should be fine considering the nice mix of youth and experience they've got on the mound. Hopefully Alfonzo can pick up where he left off at the end of last year. I'm pretty excited to see what A.J. Pierzsomethingorother can do.

When that thing happens, it is loan, not a trade.

and people badmouth the marlins for dismantling their teams.

i mean, how many times can you expect to bring in a guy like ellis burks, santiago, lofton, big cat, and have them perform the way they have as giants. for some reason, the seemingly banged up, past their prime vets always produce when they come to sf.

others i've heard are adapting:
minnesota
san diego
milwaukee (?)

obviously oakland has had the pitching to keep them competitive for the last five years despite losing high-profile allstars. the giants have had a healthy budget and one constant superstar to assist their prolonged success. it just seems like there are so few teams that are consistently having as much success as the a's and the giants (regular season wise of course). how much of that is attributable to beane and sabean? and why aren't there more teams (outside of the yankees, braves, red sox, and mariners) that can play for a division title consistently over a period of four to five years as the giants and a's have lately?

Money, minor leagues and pitching.

The A's minor leagues turned out a series of good pitchers (and a few good position players), which helped keep the budget down.

When the minors are not turning out quality players and you don't have a budget, your team will not be very good.

The last quality starter the Detroit Tigers minor leagues turned out was John Smoltz and they gave him away a LONG time ago.

The Dodgers were good for so long because their minor leagues turned out quality players. The magic faded away right around the time they were sold and guess what, they haven't been worth a crap since (not that I am crying, I hate the Dodgers).

NY and Boston have been able to buy whatever they needed. Atlanta turned out some quality players and gained the ability to buy what was needed.

SF and to a lesser extent St.Louis have found some players off the scrap pile and get good years from them, some for a few years.

Oakland seems to be able to pick out players that languish off of other teams bench and turn them into viable everyday players, but the biggest part of their success is their minor leagues turned out quite a few quality players (Giambi, Tejada, Chavez, Hudson, Mulder, & Zito). I think this has been overlooked a bit, if your minors develop two MVPs and three top notch starters within a few years, your team better win.

so... can felix rodriguez and matt herges fill in for nathan/worrell?

*updates resume*

*the benefits of the internship: free attendance to all home games (well you're "working" but it's pretty mellow).

News
Count the San Francisco Giants among the teams speaking with free agent pitcher Greg Maddux. The San Francisco Chronicle reports that the Giants and Maddux's agent, Scott Boras, have been talking all winter and have exchanged dollar figures on a multiyear deal. Maddux is expected to make a decision soon, perhaps even as soon as this weekend. Other teams trying to lure Maddux include the Cubs, Dodgers, and Cardinals. One source familiar with the situation told the Chronicle that the Giants "have a ways to go" before matching the dollars offered by other teams.

Views
The thinking is that Maddux may accept a little less to sign with the Giants because they are a perennial playoff contender and play in a pitcher-friendly ballpark. Being on the west coast might also help, as Maddux grew up and went to school in Las Vegas.

if he signs with the cubs this city is going to wet it's collective pants.

but more notable:

Pierzynski said he's been in Arizona for about a week and now looks forward to talking only baseball. He said he's watched pitchers Robb Nen and Jason Schmidt, both coming off injuries, work out at the team's Scottsdale facility.

"I've seen them throw and they look good," Pierzynski said. "Both look healthy and ready to go."

SF is definitely lucky to be in the west, as really only Arizona looks like they may be improved from the off season.

Arizona will do as well as Randy Johnson, if he is back to normal, they may make a run. If not, I doubt they have much chance.

what John said. Paul Depodesta makes Theo Epstein look like Paris Hilton on Final Jeopardy. He's been working baseball ever since his graduation day from Harvard, spending 5 years with the Indians and 5 with the A's. Very influential in baseball business circles and has helped usher along "the new thinking in baseball" tremendously, esp. wrt his high profile in Lewis' Moneyball. Rob Neyer devoted a whole column on Paul this week on Espn.com which I would definitely recommend reading.

SF is definitely lucky to be in the west, as really only Arizona looks like they may be improved from the off season.

Earl, you're ignoring the Padres who are many folx darkhorse shot at the world series this year.

Arizona will do as well as Randy Johnson, if he is back to normal, they may make a run. If not, I doubt they have much chance.

I saw Brandon Webb pitch twice (I also saw Dontrelle twice as well) and Webb was not only the better rookie, but also one of the most impressive opponents facing the Giants last year. If the D-Backs could give him some run support, they might be saying "Schilling who?" by August.

It would take a whole lot of things coming in line at once for them to make a run. Of course, the couple of times the Padres had real good clubs it happened that way.

I don't doubt that Webb is for real, but I think the Diamondbacks are at best a .500 club without the Big Unit winning 15-20 games. If Johnson was healthy last year, they definitely would have been much closer to the Giants than where they finished.

The NL West is pretty open, I think the division could maybe be won by a team with only 90 wins or so, unless there are suprises. As long as the Giants stay healthy, I think they are the team to beat.

1983 red sox. they couldn't/wouldn't/didn't run from the time jerry remy blew out his knee until ellis burks showed up a decade later.

1987: Burks 27 Team: 77 (Second highest- Marty Barrett 15)
1988: Burks 25 Team: 65 (Second highest- Mike Greenwell 16)
1989: Burks 21 Team: 56 (Second highest- Mike Greenwell 13)
1990: Burks 9 Team: 53 (Second highest- Mike Greenwell & Tony Pena[!] 8)
1991: Burks 6 Team: 59 (Team Leaders- Mike Greenwell 15, Steve Lyons 10, Tony Pena 8, Jody Reed 6)
1992: Burks 5 Team: 44 (Team Leders- Jody Reed 7, Herm Winningham 6)

Oh, yeah - and D) Clemens getting tossed out of the ALCS by Gerry (sic?) Cooney.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=knight-sorebackkeepsbondsonsidel&prov=knight&type=lgns

hmm... what's the scoop? good news: i don't have plans til after 10pm but bad news I have about 6 friends in town this weekend and not all of them wanna rock tonight. we'll see.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-brewers-giantstrade&prov=ap&type=lgns

"Four ex-Giants will be Opening Day starters for other teams: Russ Ortiz (Atlanta), Livan Hernández (Montreal), Shawn Estes (Colorado) and Sidney Ponson (Baltimore)."

"Alfonzo left with a migraine after batting in the sixth, and shortstop Neifi Perez came out after hurting his left pinkie. He was fixing a bat and hurt the fingernail so badly it turned black and he couldn't get his glove on."

Dave Veres
Mike Crudale
Deivi Cruz

Sending down Jerome Williams would be Grade A stupid (AKA par for the course for the org that wants to pay both Neifi & Deivi) - if you're going to lose games, lose them w/ a kid that's on his way up (& has had proven success against ML hitters) instead of some nomadic portside deckswabber that can't grab a spot on the rotation of the worst team in baseball.

perhaps he will be the recipient of the prestigious 2001 rich aurilia, 2002 jeff kent "hey look at me! i bat in front of barry bonds" distinction? you make the call.

Quite a turn around for a week and a half.

I WANT MY THREEEEEEEEEEE WALKS!

Here's a short list of pitchers Feliz has tagged for round-trippers (bear in mind he's been a platoon player/pinch hitter until this year):

Billy Wagner
Eric Gagne
Greg Maddux
Roy Oswalt
Trevor Hoffman
Guillermo Mota
Tim Hudson (2x)
Kevin Milwood
Randy Wolf (2x)
Mark Buehrle

I don't think there's a lot of guys playing ball that have tagged dingers off guys like these, especially not coming off the bench.

Speaking of errors, it's nice to see the all-field, no-hit Jetes revert back to his all-hit, no-field ways (cf. the 3 HRs & 3 Es in his last 2 games).

LA has routinely faded in the second half and SD is far from a proven winnner. Perhaps with some good luck the Giants can steal away the division??

My guess is that if/when the Giants win the division (since it looks like the NL Central is going to produce the wild card), the team's going to look back at the Pierzysnki brouhaha as a "chemistry turning point" where they got their beef out into the open and miraculously became a more relaxed team.

*whatever

--Bonds hit his 675th homer in his 32nd different ballpark (Camden Yards) off his 400th different pitcher (Rodrigo Lopez).
--Rafael Palmeiro catch and pass Mickey Mantle for 11th in all-time homers.
--The Orioles--in a tie game in the bottom of the ninth, with bases loaded, no outs, the AL's leading hitter at the plate (Melvin Mora, popup to RF) and the 2002 AL MVP on deck (Miguel Tejada, 1-2-3 DP)--fail to score.
--Bonds (3 for 6, 2 RBI), in the eleventh, reach out and poke an RBI single into left with the shift on.

Good game. Answer me a question, though. In the top of the 11th, Alou pinch hit Deivi Cruz for CF Marquis Grissom (hitting third). In the bottom of the 11th, he moved DH Dustan Mohr (batting second, hitting .190) into CF to replace Grissom. Doesn't that mean that the Giants lost their DH and that the pitcher would have had to bat in the third spot had the game continued? I'm unclear on these crazy DH rules.

now you answer me this: did bonds really "reach out and poke" the ball into left? because i don't _think_ i've ever seen him do something like that, although i may've once seen him slap a ball past a third baseman. obviously it would make so much sense, but generally hitters don't bother adjusting to the shift, bonds included. i guess he figured this was a special circumstance, but maybe it's something we'll see more of in the future? not that bonds could be any more dangerous...

ps don't day-night doubleheaders suck the ass?

I was pretty far out down the left field line, but it sure looked to me like he served it into left on purpose. Jorge Julio throws hard-ish, but I hardly think Bonds was overpowered. I think there were men on first and second; the third baseman was playing at roughly the SS position (I'm not sure why the Giant on second didn't just steal third, but whatever.) Maybe gygax! can catch a replay, but I really think he did it on purpose, and yes, that is scary.

Also, AARGH ARRGH HERGES.

6.10
Any League may elect to use the Designated Hitter Rule. (a) In the event of inter league competition between clubs of Leagues using the Designated Hitter Rule and clubs of Leagues not using the Designated Hitter Rule, the rule will be used as follows: 1. In World Series or exhibition games, the rule will be used or not used as is the practice of the home team. 2. In All Star games, the rule will only be used if both teams and both Leagues so agree. (b) The Rule provides as follows: A hitter may be designated to bat for the starting pitcher and all subsequent pitchers in any game without otherwise affecting the status of the pitcher(s) in the game. A Designated Hitter for the pitcher must be selected prior to the game and must be included in the lineup cards presented to the Umpire in Chief. The designated hitter named in the starting lineup must come to bat at least one time, unless the opposing club changes pitchers. It is not mandatory that a club designate a hitter for the pitcher, but failure to do so prior to the game precludes the use of a Designated Hitter for that game. Pinch hitters for a Designated Hitter may be used. Any substitute hitter for a Designated Hitter becomes the Designated Hitter. A replaced Designated Hitter shall not re enter the game in any capacity. The Designated Hitter may be used defensively, continuing to bat in the same position in the batting order, but the pitcher must then bat in the place of the substituted defensive player, unless more than one substitution is made, and the manager then must designate their spots in the batting order. A runner may be substituted for the Designated Hitter and the runner assumes the role of Designated Hitter. A Designated Hitter may not pinch run. A Designated Hitter is "locked" into the batting order. No multiple substitutions may be made that will alter the batting rotation of the Designated Hitter. Once the game pitcher is switched from the mound to a defensive position this move shall terminate the Designated Hitter role for the remainder of the game. Once a pinch hitter bats for any player in the batting order and then enters the game to pitch, this move shall terminate the Designated Hitter role for the remainder of the game. Once the game pitcher bats for the Designated Hitter this move shall terminate the Designated Hitter role for the remainder of the game. (The game pitcher may only pinch hit for the Designated Hitter). Once a Designated Hitter assumes a defensive position this move shall terminate the Designated Hitter role for the remainder of the game. A substitute for the Designated Hitter need not be announced until it is the Designated Hitter's turn to bat.

is there some obvious utilitarian reason for this rule that i'm overlooking, or is it just there for it's own sake?

I'm not sure if this is a utilitarian reason, but it my best guess is that it goes back to the part of the rule that says the DH is "locked" in the batting order, meaning that it can't be moved around in the lineup the way another defensive position can in certain situations, such as a double switch.

Maybe it's more of a metaphyisal thing. Like the DH isn't a solid concrete position, but more of an ephemeral concept.

Two weeks ago, Foppert increased his throws from 80 to 85 mph in batting practice and simulated games.

If his 12-month rehabilitation schedule continues on track, Foppert -- who has had no setbacks -- would be ready for a minor league rehabilitation assignment in August.

so can it last? i think it's the type of year where anything can happen.

So what does Eric Gagne have to say about his latest PacBell meltdown?
http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20040625/capt.fxpb10906250243.dodgers_giants_fxpb109.jpg

The pitch Gagne knocked him down with reminded me of the high strike Clemens threw to Manny last year.

-- gygax! (gygax0...), March 6th, 2004 5:18 PM. (gygax!) (admin) (66.122.50.136)

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/stats/byteam?cat=Overall&cut_type=0&conference=MLB&year=season_2004&sort=711

Batting Average Allowed: .348
On Base % Allowed: .394
Slugging % Allowed: .530
OPS Allowed: .924

 San Diego   
  K. Greene SS 1-2 
  M. Loretta 2B 1-2 
  B. Giles RF 1-2 
  P. Nevin 1B 1-2 
  R. Klesko LF 1-2 
  R. Aurilia 3B 1-2 
  J. Payton CF 1-2 
  M. Ojeda C 1-2 
  J. Peavy P 0-1 

In the meantime I found a thread on the Giants message board via mlb.com. Only three postings (and I've got a 24-hour moratorium on posting as a new member) but I think that's probably three more postings than normal about the national anthem...

here's the link
national anthem

my email to KNBR (gary radnich show) was just read on the air. i really tore into the woman who sang the anthem, referring to it sounding like a wounded hyena (this was read on the air). and i was afraid of this, turns out, the woman was blind and perhaps otherwise disabled.

of course i didn't hear her being introduced, so i had no idea that this was an opportunity being given to someone with a handicap.

so there you go. she was blind and i'm sorry i even asked.

Pitchers             IP  H   R   ER  BB  SO  HR  ERA
Noah Lowry (W,1-0)   9   3   0   0   2   9   0   2.43

I see he turned in a quality start against LA on 6/29 but then got sent down?

I hope I'm wrong, but I mean take a look at his AAA statistics:

http://sanfrancisco.giants.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/minorleagues/team_stats.jsp?c_id=sf&minor_id=PCLFRE

oh felix... i hope you and your one pitch make somebody else's team very happy someday.

-- gygax! (gygax0...), June 9th, 2004 6:51 PM. (gygax!)

and even yet, will take the wildcard.

-- gygax! (gygax0...), August 4th, 2004 11:24 PM. (gygax!)

See?

jesse foppert (tommy john) pitched 5 innings for fresno, striking out four and giving up 2 runs... sources say he will see mlb action by september.

*if he starts batting .300 i have the right to waive the above sentiment.

post-All-Star-- .413/.516/.680 !!!!

Rob Neyer wrote, in spring training 2003 IIRC, that Bonds was the only player in baseball who could singlehandedly make a good team into a great team. Here is our proof.

a triple and four INTENTIONAL walks.

In the recent SF/HOU series, the Giants had won 9-2, 5-1, and as of the 8th inning last night with 3 outs to go, were up 3-2 on the Astros. With the HOU "killer-B" lineup of Biggio, Beltran, Bagwell and Berkman due up in the top of the 9th and having been outscored 17-4 in the past 26 innings by the Giants, I had an uneasy feeling. The Astros lineup seemed better than 17-4 and with staff ace Jason Schmidt being relieved by journeyman starter cum closer Dustin Hermanson, a Houston comeback seemed almost inevitable.

In the 2002 World Series with the Anaheim Angels vs. the SF Giants, the games were decided as such:

game 1: SF 4 - ANA 3
game 2: SF 10 - ANA 11
game 3: SF 4 - ANA 10
game 4: SF 4 - ANA 3 (SF rallies back from 3-0 with 4 unanswered runs)
game 5: SF 16 - ANA 4
game 6: SF 5 - ANA 6 (ANA rallies back from 5-0 with 6 unanswered runs)
game 7: SF 1 - ANA 4

So for the total series, SF outscored ANA 44 - 41 which shows a pretty competitive 7 game series. But in the distribution of runs, SF went on a stretch of outscoring ANA 25-4. When ANA finally answered back by outscoring SF 10-1, the series was over.

(there's no pirate thread; is it okay if i take a moment here to weep that it's now been 25 years since the pirates' (and steelers'!) last championship?)

I'm trying to think of comparable suspensions from the Cubs' season (there have been plenty):

Zambrano got 5 games/1 start for hitting Edmonds in the ass. Roy Oswalt didn't get suspended for beaning Michael Barrett (that I know of). Matt Morris didn't get suspended for throwing two pitches at Derrek Lee. Kerry Wood got 5 games/1 start for arguing with a home plate ump, LaTroy Hawkins got 3 games for arguing with an ump.

I'm not seeing a pattern. 3 games for a reliever is harsh.

Apparently he's hurt too. This team is way too sloppy at this point in the season to be taken seriously.

Jason Schmidt
Brett Tomko
Kirk Rueter
Noah Lowry (rookie call-up)
Brian Hennessy (rookie call-up)

The Giants have second year starting pitchers Jerome Williams back (who pitched 7 innings of 1 run ball last night) and Jesse Foppert available after lengthy stays on the DL for this last weekend of baseball.

He's signed $12+M over 3 years making him a bit of a risk, which the "thirtysomething" Giants don't really need right now with the heavy burden of an aging veteran lineup. Looking at his stats he goes cold during the last 2 months of the last few seasons, which could show signs of age/wear & tear. Having Deivi Cruz as a back up middle infielder for Vizquel and injury-prone Ray Durham (not to mention Cruz's very impressive end to the 2004 season) shows some depth the Giants have lacked in recent years.

Overall, it's better than the Neif-arious position they were in at the beginning of last season.

One good thing for Giants fans are players of this era of baseball playing better at a later age than ever before, after all the best hitter and perhaps two best starting pitchers in the NL are at 40 or older.

His last 2 full seasons (2002 & 2004) are better than his career averages. 2001 was his weakest recent year offensively and weighs down his recent performance, then again that was 3 seasons ago.

The $4M/yr. is $2M less than he was making in Cleveland. Not to mention he's cheaper than Garciaparra or Renteria who Vizquel outperformed in 2004. I would imagine the Giants structure the contract heavier towards the end of the deal and hope he retires before the final year.

Renteria has been steadily improving and is now hitting his peak years.

C    A.J. Pierzynski      28
1B   J.T. Snow            37
2B   Ray Durham           33
SS   Omar Vizquel         38
3B   Edgardo Alfonzo      31
LF   Barry Bonds          40
CF   Marquis Grissom      38
RF   Michael Tucker       34

i can't understand why the giants were so hot for vizquel that they would cave in to his demand for a three year deal. it doesn't add up.

http://www.all-baseball.com/mikesbballrants/archives/016380.html