angelos & devils: the 2005 o's thread...

how 'bout that?

and i will say that sir fat sidney is both darren dreifort AND carlos perez! in size, if not alternate personalities.

but i gotta say: all those hard shots comin back up the middle...it was like 'nam out there, man!

didn't know whether to put this in a's or o's, but...

it'll be interesting to see if he can go deeper in to games a little more consistently this year as he didn't pitch winter ball in mexico.

Soon, we'll get actual answers about whether or not Washington leeches fans from Baltimore.

i'd characterize it as how many washingtonians angelos has alienated, but, hey...reasonable people can disagree.

given the growth of the region since 1954 (when the griffith family welcomed baseball up the road), there is no reason b'more should not be able to support itself w/o getting big $ from washington.

looked like sammy was feeling it last night.

sir fat sidney has only walked one and allowed 4 hits through 4 ip. a season low, i reckon.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/minors/hotsheet2005.html

you know zaun is rick dempsey's nephew, right?

it's not on tv in de today...which doesn't exactly matter b/c i'm at the library.

He's taking out his frustration on us right now.

kind of funny that a dude w/ a 6 + era is looking to lead the starters in wins, though.

the o's have a pretty soft run after this series.

there ought to be some adjustments w/ the rotation. i think bedard can pitch near the level he pitched in that a's game, cabrera and ponson will settle down and chen will probably get figured out. i don't think it's unrealistic that rodrigo lopez could win more than 15.

If wishes were horses, I'd be starring in Equus.

"No team can make a case like the Orioles'. Through 21 games, they lead the AL in batting average (.303), slugging percentage (.489) and runs scored (125). They are second in the AL with 29 home runs, but as a result of their versatile lineup, they also are second in the league with 22 steals."

also #5 in the mlb in obp.

rodrigo didn't look too hot the other night, but the sox and yankee staffs seem worse off these days. the o's are in a nice spot as underdogs who don't have the insane expectations to face, either.

and good lord does ray miller have some gargantuan ears.

mike bordick. i guess that was that season he played well and the o's traded him to the mets for mel mental.

another fun fact: the o's have no 'murikans in their starting rotation.

I'd love to know what happened to turn Miggy from the .260 strugglebunny folks saw leaving Oakland to the world-beating god he's become in CrabCakeVille.

and it seems to me that tejada was a mvp before he left oaktown w/ numbers.

& actually, his "struggles" his last year in Oaktown weren't as bad as I had thought. Please strike my "strugglebunny" comment from the official record, plz.

i blame society! and the hype!

never understood the hatred of b.j.

btw, i was at the kc game the other night and ponson looked pretty good, too. granted, it's against kc...but still.

According to some well-known numba crunchas, Palmeiro's lackluster performance will cost the O's a couple of games.

yeah, i mean raffy's signing was clearly an attempt at atonement for letting him go in the first place...but dammit, dave, your number crunchers can't measure raffy's heart!

...you need a sonogram to do that.

[the ump who called the balk on sunday] was known in the 1990s as the hair-trigger enforcer of the balk rule ... to the point where his crew was credited by one publication with about a third of all the balks called in the National League over a five-year period from 1993 to 1997.

2004 Orioles
avg: 34 300 pct capacity : 70.3

2005 Orioles
avg: 29 143 pct capacity : 60.5

2005 Nationals
avg: 30 672 pct capacity : 54.1

Of course, the low pct capacity for the Nats is misleading because they play in a football stadium. Also, the 2004 number is for the full season, and avg attendance should rise during the summer. This could help explain the lower Orioles attendance. Overall, it certainly helps that both teams are competitive, but for all intents and purposes, baseball attendance in Baltimore-Washington has doubled.

Fuck one Angelos.

Now, with a competitive team for the first time since 1997, they should slowly bring back the fans they lost. The 29K number will go up over the summer, regardless of the quality of the team, because baseball is a summer game. When all is said and done, Angelos can *maybe* claim a 5-10% reduction in attendance.

But all this number crunching is a bit dubious because Angelos is a fuckwit who is infamously trying to monopolize the broadcasting rights in the area, so who knows what affect that is having on frustrated fans, advertising, public opinion of the Orioles, etc. (jqh, comments?)

And even so, if the Nats attendance figures hold up over the season, then overall interest and attendance in the Balt-Wash area will have skyrocketed. So it will be abundantly clear that they can support two teams, contrary to what Angelos wants/thinks, which was my central point.

besides, i don't think that anyone has ever claimed that the nats would have NO impact on o's attendance and what irks me most is petey-pete's unfounded claim on TWO multi-state market areas.

JQ - what's the consensus in Crabtown on Mazilli? He strikes me as an unimaginative by-the-book received-knowledge type of guy (w/ more than a hint of Torre's scorched-earth bullpen usage tendencies).

i definitely have questions on how the bullpen is being used...where's john parrish? rick bauer? steve reed? the b'more press has been pretty complimentary on his lineup tinkering, though.

2B Roberts
3B Mora
SS Tejada
RF Sosa
C Lopez
1B Viagkra
DH TK
LF TK
CF Matos

Or is Lopez hitting 4th? He probably should, esp. since he's a better hitter (right now) that Sammy is. Esp. now that Sammy's on the DL (ho ho ho).

i am definitely curious to see what they do w/ sammy & matos dl'd.

keith reed is coming up and he's kind of "eh", but i think now would be a great time to FREE WALTER YOUNG!

To FREE WALTER YOUNG, they need to FREE RAFAEL PALMEIRO AND HIS WILLY.

(rick bauer was also sent down to AAA)

ponson has only thrown 95 pitches through 8IP.

johan santana 98 through 6IP + 9H/4ER, but only 1BB and 8K.

Uh, Angelos' argument isn't "DC/Baltimore can't support two teams." It's "DC/Baltimore can't support two teams without hurting my attendance and bottom line." Which is true, as the attendance figures thus far bear out.

You're reading his argument literally - an attempt to be logical and reasoned and taking the best interests of baseball and both franchises into account. When we read it purely in terms of self-interest, everything he's argued has been self-evident - the Nationals were going to hurt his bottom line by their existence. Whether they were going to make a meaningful impact is another question (as is whether baseball should have caved), but one that a good capitalist like Angelos didn't care about - fact was, they were going to hurt and he had to say and do anything he could to blunt the impact.

First of all, if Angelos is trying to monopolize the TV rights in his favour then he's going to make more money (not to mention the fact that he owns 1/29th of the Nats).

Second, you're assuming that the (very small) drop in Orioles attendance is solely due to the Nats, and not due to dwindling interest in the team.

Third, the Orioles attendance will go up as the year goes on, as it does for nearly all teams as the weather improves.

Fourth, you're assuming that "attendance" = "the bottom line" and that attendance is an accurate indicator of how well a team is faring financially. Obv. money from TV, merch, liscencing >> money from ticket sales.

Fifth, the pool of baseball fans is not finite. More people in the Bmore/Wash area are interested in the game. Total interest in baseball (judging from ticket sales, although I don't know what the TV ratings are, but if you do, feel free to make a counterargument based on that) has doubled in the area -- how can that not be good for the long-term health of the Nats AND the O's?

Second, you're assuming that the (very small) drop in Orioles attendance is solely due to the Nats, and not due to dwindling interest in the team.
Yes, I'm assuming that the drop in attendance of ~5,000 per night - with a better, more competitive team and decent weather - might have something to do with the Nats. If the O's had been in last place all season, you'd have an argument here - but they haven't been.

Third, the Orioles attendance will go up as the year goes on, as it does for nearly all teams as the weather improves.
That's an assumption that we have no evidence for thus far. As I've said all along, if the numbers hold steady, Angelos' argument was correct.

Fourth, you're assuming that "attendance" = "the bottom line" and that attendance is an accurate indicator of how well a team is faring financially. Obv. money from TV, merch, liscencing >> money from ticket sales
"Money from ticket sales" still equals "money" which equals "a team's bottom line."

Again, quoting my last sentence: "Whether they were going to make a meaningful impact is another question (as is whether baseball should have caved), but one that a good capitalist like Angelos didn't care about - fact was, they were going to hurt and he had to say and do anything he could to blunt the impact."

As to the last - it's not about the 'long-term health' of anything (as I said). You keep trying to view Angelos's arguments as rational and balanced and whatever. They aren't. They're purely self-serving in the short-term. "Nats hurt attendance, that's going to lose me money, I need something to help out."

Which is one of the reasons you don't see new expansion teams going to an established market most of the time. You don't get a new NL team in Detroit, for instance.

And to repeat myself, again, I'm not arguing the impact is meaningful, or that Angelos deserves to get his concessions or that the market can't support two teams or that any franchise deserves monopoly rights: simply that Angelos's arguments, phrasing them the way he has, are correct. Rather than trying to argue that a new team down the road won't impact Angelos financially, a more sound reasoning is to attack the degree to which he'll be hurt.

i'm curious to see if they can ride out the fiorentino boomlet and if penn can be a serviceable stand in.

eh...it's something positive.

i still don't like the bautista trade and talk of dealing penn or maine is disturbing.

Sammy is wound up so fucking tight it's a wonder he can even swing the bat.

question for yankees fans: why wouldn't torre bring in mariano rivera to face the top of the o's lineup? bringing out stanton was almost an insult!

It hasn't been SAID outright, but I'm assuming that the talk about the Orioles making moves NOW has plenty to do w/ the superb performance (at the time) of the pitching staff, and w/ Bedard (still?) on the DL, a lot of that wuv was (rightfully) Chen's for the taking. SiPo has been Alpo (har har), Cabrera is all over the place, Lopez is solid, but the fact that Chen's the staff ERA leader even after his last start says volumes about his performance to date (on many levels). (My love of parentheses knows no shame.)

no!!!

it would've been a lot funnier if he had gone THROUGH the ceiling judd nelson in the breakfast club-style, though.

o's are averaging 3K p/g better than 03 and 1K p/g less than 04. o's/nats trail only mets/yanks & angels/dodgers for average combined attendance in proximate/shared markets.

The Baltimore Orioles on Saturday have agreed to trade right-handed pitcher Sidney Ponson to San Diego for first baseman Phil Nevin.

Buster Olney reports that Nevin has a limited no-trade clause and he hasn't approved the deal yet. The Orioles are on the list of teams he does not want to be traded to.

With Ponson moving to the Padres, the Orioles deal to acquire Florida Marlins right-hander A.J. Burnett has been shelved.

A three-way deal with the Orioles and Texas Rangers, which would have sent Burnett to Baltimore, was "killed" by the Orioles this weekend, according to a baseball man familiar with the deal, ESPN.com's Jayson Stark reported. So the Marlins are believed to have broken off talks with Baltimore, at least for now, and are back to focusing on offers by the Chicago White Sox, Boston Red Sox and Toronto Blue Jays.

And that, my friends, concludes the "fat jokes" portion of this thread for 2005.

wapo is reporting that nevin actually seems pretty amenable to the deal and could be in uni tomorrow night.

i predict that the o's will acquire los angeles's favorite taco merchant/consumer.

I wouldn't be suprised if Phil Nevin ends up killing this deal. He has killed a couple of other mid season trades in the past few years, one to Cinci for the Grif and I think one to maybe the Angels or Rangers.

i believe sealing the deal would put an end to the short, nasty & brutish tenure of eli marrero.

The hell? Did he knife a hobo?

and sammy the soose is heatin up, but it doesn't mean squat w/ mora and roberts doing their best impersonation of 70s supergroup foreigner.

Sammy wouldn't be a bad hitter to have going six or seven in a lineup, but the guy pouts like an eight year old with his Gameboy taken away when he feels slighted.

As bad as some of the deals the O's have done in the past ten years, one thing is for sure they did right signing Tejada.

"A team source said that the Orioles are not only committed to improving the top of their rotation, they are dissatisfied with both the offensive and defensive production of their outfield. None of their starting outfielders, Larry Bigbie, Luis Matos and Sammy Sosa, is hitting above .271. And the three have combined for 20 home runs and 74 RBIs.

"The infield is carrying the outfield right now, which is ridiculous," the team source said."

gone!!!

http://baseballanalysts.com/archives/2005/08/a_tale_of_two_p.php

...not to mention that Carpenter is equally as dominant against LHBs allowing him to pitch average 7.5 IP a start whereas Cabrera only averages 5.5 IP.

perlozzo seems more committed to using younger dudes over surhoff, palmeiro and sosa. they just brought up this guy freire who is a 30 year old rook that's just been mashing stuff at aaa and he's trying to find ways to keep newhan in the lineup.

FREE WALTER YOUNG!!!

http://www.mtamaryland.com/services/marc/schedulesSystemMaps/MARC_CAMDEN_LINE_HTML.cfm

Morbs - MARC Camden line drops off at Camden station a block away from Camden Yards. I think it's a $7 one-way fare, although I could be mistaken.

Regular MARC train service is available for weekday Oriole games at Camden Yards. The MTA 701 Express Bus operates 20 minutes after the last out of the ball game to Savage, Greenbelt & Union Station. A valid MARC ticket to the appropriate station is accepted for the return trip. In the absence of a MARC ticket, the cash fare is $10.

On Saturday, Sunday & Holidays, there is no train service. The MTA 703 Bus leaves the Metro Greenbelt Station for Camden Yards 2 hours, 90 minutes & 1 hour before game time. Buses return to Greenbelt 20 minutes after the last out. The fare is $6 each way.

(xpost, obv.)

how bout dat?

btw...last night i went to see phillies & nats (a dollar dog night, no less) and i made it home in time for o's & a's. joy.

that was unexpected.

sir fat sidney's been busted for another dewey...

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/baseball/bal-ponson0825,1,2473216.story?coll=bal-sports-baseball&ctrack=1&cset=true

y'know...free walter young! free nick markakis! there is nothing to lose!

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2148842

*until the union gets involved, that is.

Sammy Sosa may have played his last game in Baltimore and, just maybe, his last in the U.S. Multiple sources believe that Sosa will head to Japan next season for a retirement-fund contract and a chance to hit as many home runs as Tuffy Rhodes, his former Cub teammate, did.

must have been a controversial play:

BALTIMORE'S BRIAN ROBERTS HAS LEFT THE GAME IN THE BOTTOM OF THE SECOND INNING WITH A LEFT ELBOW INJURY.

BALTIMORE MANAGER SAM PERLOZZO HAS BEEN EJECTED BY HOME PLATE UMPIRE SAM HOLBROOK IN THE SECOND INNING FOR ARGUING A PLAY AT FIRST BASE.

http://select.nytimes.com/2005/09/28/sports/baseball/28rhoden.html?8hpib

"Standing nearby was Sosa, who, according to one player, had grown tired of Tejada's constant dugout chatter and told the shortstop as much. Both players later denied the rift, but Hendricks and several other players confirmed it. Tejada was much quieter after Sosa rebuked him, the players said.

Palmeiro and Ponson were also in the clubhouse that night in Oakland.

Palmeiro had recently returned from his 10-day suspension to a clubhouse reception more dubious than publicly alleged. Several players did not even get off their cell phones to speak to him when he tried to shake hands upon returning. A clubhouse loner to begin with, he was now an island.

And Ponson, who would soon face his second drunken-driving charge in seven months, had already turned off teammates. On the day after his final arrest weeks later, as word of it filtered through the clubhouse, many players frowned and shook their heads, no longer surprised at any news involving Ponson.

Running the team that night in Oakland was an interim manager, Sam Perlozzo, who had replaced Mazzilli in early August and had no idea if he would be retained for next year. (He was given a three-year contract last week.)

Mazzilli's firing on Aug. 4 delighted many players. They had long before become disenchanted with the second-year manager.

"Pretty much everybody was unhappy with him," one player later said."

the second half of their season was as thorough a collapse, in every way, as any i can recall in sport. about the only plus is that they didn't trade cabrera for a.j. burnett.

But there are always plenty of lesser light guys that become available, guys who can make a big difference. Last year, it was pitchers like Loiaza, El Duque, Paul Byrd, Glendon Rusch, etc.

This year, guys like Joe Mays, Tomko, Moyer could potentially help give starting pitcher depth, and won't cost nearly as much. I'm not saying this will bring the Orioles to the playoffs, but these are the kind of guys that the Orioles haven't even bothered to acquire in the previous few years. They seem to have been using a pitching-from-within philosophy that I'm not sure can work in a division with Toronto, the Yankees and the Sox in it.

i am a happy camper. the fact that the yanks were gunning for him is icing on the cake.

braves are asking for a prospect in exchange for releasing mazzone prior to the end date of his contract.

bastards!