Dear Joe Morgan,

The best team ESPN has is the one with Gary Thorne and Steve Stone, but they are the #3 broadcast team.

I can't believe I'm the first to see this:

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/othersports/story/25535BCEA9E3EDF48625731F000D77D9?OpenDocument

What tall tale will commentator Joe Morgan offer Sunday night during ESPN's baseball telecast? Morgan will be hard-pressed to top the whopper he told during last week's Cards-Philadelphia telecast.

Morgan recounted how he played a role in the history of each club by beating the Phillies with a run-scoring hit during their legendary collapse in September 1964. The game, Morgan said, was his major-league debut. Nice story, but none of it is true. Houston did not play the Phillies during their 10-game losing streak in September. Morgan did not have an RBI in 1964. Morgan debuted in 1963.

Out of all the things Morgan's spit out to actually get play, this is the stupidest. Yeah, he got it wrong, but it's more a matter of old Joe being confused (instead of old Joe being misinformed, stubborn, & flat-out wrong).

so you think he's getting senile? or is just a self-important dick?

He could be both!

Over the years, I've read of plenty Old Ballplayer tales proven wrong by research. Them getting stuff wrong, esp after over 60, is the usual course of things.

God this guy is a dipshit.

Morgan tonight as Luis Castillo caught a pop up that he nearly misjudged due to the wind:

"Now, see, that's what happens when you don't play in the National League. You don't come to Wrigley, you don't know how to handle the wind. He's been playing in Minnesota, where there's no wind in the dome. You gotta learn how to play in this league, and that only comes with experience"

Luis Castillo played for the Marlins from 1996-2005.

I think it's spreading to Jon Miller. Unless The Other JM has always been an ESPN Talking Point pusher, & I just never noticed. But, yeah, STFU about the "OMG he might be the last 300-game winner ever," when the last THREE 300-game winners pitched their entire careers in the 5-man rotation that's supposedly going to prevent pitchers from winning 300.

Also plz the both of you STFU about "OMG Cy Young pitched a bazillion complete games, woe is baseball that Real Men like Bob Gibson aren't around to chuck 170+ pitches a game at the greatest athletes this sport has ever seen."

dude clemens & maddux each pitcher over 100 CGs, which will likely not be replicated anytime with any pitcher over then next 20 years barring a major shift in philosophy.

the real crime was committed when he said that athletes nowadays have strength training & are conditioned year-round & thats why 'pitchers these days pitch longer into games than ever before, i mean they may not pitch as many games as they used to, but they pitch more innings', i mean holy fuck did anyone else hear that??? jesus.

The Castillo bit is gold.

haha - more!!

Joe said last night that 300 wins is harder than 3000 hits cuz besides pitching well "your team has to be good." OMG!!! What happened to Knowing How to Win?!?

Pitchers throw more PITCHES in a similar number of innings now, that's true.

Joe Morgan: I think the Yankees are like three or four other teams, but can they stay consistent. They've played sub-.500 teams the last couple of weeks. They won 11 of 12 one time and then lost 9 of 10. They have a chance of winning, but it doesn't mean they're going to win. Giambi, if he can come back and hit, that left handed bat can help. They can get better if he can come back and produce.

Last night, choosing Rollins over Howard as the player of the game. "I like to go with the infielder."

"OPS to me doesn't tell you what the guy does for the team. It just tells me that he could, you know, the guy can get on base and he hits for some power."

Yeah, Joe was really liking the Angels, going so far as to claim that their type of line-up will be the future of baseball, because people are hitting less homers this year compared to last.

He'd improve 150% if he could just stop repeating himself 10 times when he's making A Point.

I'm glad I was out.

Joe sez "A catcher's job is to catch" (ie, he's more impressed w/ Victor Martinez throwing out 30% of runners than his .503 slugging). Yeah Joe, Mike Piazza's unmatchable receiving skills are what're putting him in Cooperstown.

"A third baseman's job is to, to, to third-base. This is a league where you've got to do all the little things well."

"Now I want to show you something about that collision between Hinske and Posada. Posada gets into an awkward place. See here, he gets the ball, Hinske's coming for the plate, and Posada is IN FRONT of the plate." Scribbles a dot on the screen, behind Posada. "Look, THERE'S the PLATE! Now most catchers will, will, they'll give you a little piece of the plate. To slide for. But there's nowhere for Hinske to go."

Did he really praise Ellsbury for missing the cutoff man?

"Bizarrely, this goalie is in an awkward position to prevent the puck from getting past him -- you see, he is IN FRONT of the net."

haha i actually don't hate this guy. mccarver on the other hand.. (does he have a thread?)

he praised ellsbury for quickly getting to the ball and preventing minky (?) from scoring--which seemed somewhat unlikely anyway--and then i think he praised giambi for heads-up baserunning while not mentioning the missed cutoff man.

Joe's NL MVP:

Sept 16: Prince Fielder
Sept 23: Jimmy Rollins (he "led" the Phillies while their actual MVP was disabled)
Sept 30: who will he settle on besides David Wright?

"I think you have to consider that David Wright is not actually an infielder. He plays a corner position."

ok, did he say that?

No, but he probably will.

Andrei (NY, NY): HI Joe, Always love watching you on Sunday Night Baseball. I was wondering what your thoughts were on momentum heading into the postseason? Is it that important?

Joe Morgan: (11:16 AM ET ) I've always thought it meant a lot, heading into the postseason, but last year, the Cardinals got in on the last day. Detroit played poorly down the stretch as well, and yet both of them made it to the World Series. Maybe the game has changed enough so that momentum doesn't mean as much as it did before.

Joe, we get it: IT DEPENDS!

--------------------------------------------------------------------

D. Malphabet (Bronx, NYC): Should the Yanks play Giambi at first base, or stick with a better defender for the playoffs?

Joe Morgan: (11:25 AM ET ) It depends on who you're playing. If they end up playing Cleveland, where Carmona and Sabathia will start, runs will be at a premium, so you wouldn't put Giambi there. If you'll play a team like the Angels, then I think you have to try to score runs, because the Angels pitching staff won't shut you down.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike(NY): Do you think the Mets should bring back Moises Alou or go with the kids in the outfield?

Joe Morgan: (11:27 AM ET ) Moises Alou can hit. He's always been a great hitter. It'll depend on what they end up with pitching-wise. If they can get good pitching, you need to go with defense out there. If not, you need offense. He's the most consistent hitter on that ballclub. It all depends on the team makeup.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian Cashman (Bronx, NY): Should Joba relieve or start next year?

Joe Morgan: (11:28 AM ET ) That depends on who they have back. Mussina is under contract, but is Roger Clemens coming back? I think eventually Chamberlain should be a starter. It will depend on a lot of other circumstances whether he is or not.

Ross, Chicago: Is Jim Thome done? Any trade value?

Joe Morgan: (10:37 AM ET ) I never like to think of players as being done. Only the player will know. They said Frank Thomas was done in Toronto and he is doing well in Oakland. We've poured dirt on guys who have come back to play well before, and only Jim Thome knows whether he's finished or not.

Haha I hope Frank tears Joe's little head off his little shoulders.

Joe was giving Snake Plissken props last night. See, there really is not-much to John Carpenter!

Charlie Manuel manages PEOPLE, not replicants

he also lets players play, apparently

the Hank Aaron quote was good, though! that's the kind of stuff he should focus on.

why was Miller calling Jordan Schaefer "Logan"?

they have Phillips to do the heavy lifting with the facts and numbers now

Miller shd juat treat the other 2 like Larry & Curly

the rain has shut Joe up for the night.

"...but I also like Dewayne Wise, you know, he brings a lot of speed and I think he needs -- I think he's a pretty good player, if given the opportunity."

Dear Joe Morgan,

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/wisede01.shtml

FUCK YOU AND YOUR "MOVING RUNNERS OVER" IN THE FIRST INNING WITH NO OUTS

god steve phillips has been listening to A LOT of ny talk radio (team needs "grit", "the core")

also "more game-winning plays" from Beltran, what a fuckwit

You'd think a Hall of Famer and expert commentator would know that a pitcher doesn't HAVE TO deliver a pitch from the windup position.

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/official_info/official_rules/pitcher_8.jsp

From the Windup Position, the pitcher may:
(1) deliver the ball to the batter, or
(2) step and throw to a base in an attempt to pick-off a runner, or
(3) disengage the rubber (if he does he must drop his hand to his sides).
In disengaging the rubber the pitcher must step off with his pivot foot and not his free foot first.
He may not go into a set or stretch position—if he does it is a balk.

Then again, the pitcher IS a pretty trivial part of the game compared to the second baseman -- there are more important things to keep straight.

Dear Joe Morgan,

You can't trade a run for an out when there are two outs.

- A Concerned Viewer

Listening to Joe and Steve talk about how indispensable Juan Pierre is on the espn game tonight made me want to die.

1. they assume Juan Pierre isnt going to revert to a pile of suck when the law of averages kicks back in.
2. they assume you could get anything short of a bag of balls for JP and his hideous contract. Joe Morgan went so far as to say the dodgers could get a starting pitcher for him.
3. Steve Fucking Phillips said the Dodgers should play an OF of Manny-Pierre-Kemp and bench Ethier.

What in the fuck.

Steve Phillips also thinks Carlos Beltran doesn't make "game-winning plays." srsly, everyone w/ a brain knows these two are a joke, don't wish death on yrself.

"A third baseman's job is to, to, to third-base. This is a league where you've got to do all the little things well."

― Tracer Hand, Monday, September 10, 2007 1:17 PM (1 year ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

some real gems already tonight. in the middle of jon miller explaining how hank aaron came up as a middle infielder, joe interjects by saying "SECOND BASE!" like it's fuckin jeopardy or something

Espn polled for the best manager of the last 20 yrs and cox beat out torre and la russa with 34 pct to their 33% each...joe can't decide among them so he goes, "if I had known (the poll result) I'd have gone and voted torre to make it a three way tie".

Truly on top of his game right now

it was ridiculous to hear morgan & phillips prolong the 'how can u throw even 1 strike to jeter? what if he wouldve swung?' um well hello, maybe they wouldve gotten him out?

i mean krod has BB'd dudes w/ the bases loaded already this season so even tho the batter is the other teams closer, its not categorically insane 2 not want 2 be in that position

PbP guy on the Angels/Tigres gaem is debating defensive metrics w/ joe morgan. It's like Barney Frank arguing w/ a dining room table.

plus we got to hear a Cy Young 'debate' where WEEEEENS took center stage as usual (ie Sabathia)

good thing Utley hit that HR or these guys woulda taked about Howard's swing all night.

oh great, Phillips w/ the RISP again, this time how Jurrjens "elevates his game" with guys on. WHY DOESN'T HE TRY HARD ALL THE TIME?

Dear Joe Morgan,

Shut up.

Joe Morgan (11:15 AM)

A great example is that we always talk about the strikeouts that Ryan Howard has, but he was in the spotlight last night tying up the game. He didn't strikeout. You just never know what you're going to get other than great effort.

Shane (Knoxville)

Joe, honestly... if you were the manager of the Phillies, would you have had the confidence to go with Lidge those last two games?

Joe Morgan (11:17 AM)

I said this at the beginning of the postseason - the only way the Phillies can win the championship and repeat is if Lidge is closing the games. You can't do it with someone knew to the situation. Lidge has proven that he can do it in the past. My answer is yes, because that's the only way they can do it. You can't win the championship without an established closer. It shows you how great Mariano Rivera is and has been throughout his career.

The ONLY way. If they enter the other team's half of the ninth in nonsave situations -- leading 18-0, or 12-5, or whatever -- they will most definitely be fucked.

Maybe the Phillies should have pulled the established Todd Jones or Joe Borowski out of retirement. They have closed before.

i remember back when adam wainwright closed out games when the cardinals won the world series, and i was like, thankfully for the cardinals this guy isn't new to the situation and he is an established closer, or else the cardinals would not have won this series. because that is the only way.

we didn't even make it into the bottom of the first tonight w/o joe furiously advocating for first inning sacrifices and trying to differentiate b/w clutch hitters on a team and the best hitters on a team

Maybe Orel will go ballistic and start screaming at him on air

Getting on base and not making an out is really overrated, especially when you're doing it immediately ahead of Albert Pujols.

Time for Braves-Giants.

ATL feed (Chip) only, ugh.

orel is too at peace with his God to allow such a violent outburst to happen

RAGING RIVER

joe just noted that rbis are a matter of opportunity!

ugh now joe is mad about the concept of a small market team

Why are we comparing team revenues to the Yankees? Because...their revenue...is...god DAMMIT Joe Morgan, wtf

sunday night baseball broadcasts =

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7w64fbqYQY

DEAR JOE MORGAN SHUT THE FUK UP

it's like arguing with about a kickball play with a 2nd grader

i hope orel hersisher is slowly muttering his salary to himself in his head

http://twitter.com/#search?q=joe%20morgan

"Forget about the win; the loss woulda hurt a lot more."

hes said "when you're a team like the mets..." like 5 times

Joe, Reyes is not gonna have "a lot of baserunners on" w/ Pagan and Castillo ahead of him, so shut up.

There were some gems in his ESPN chat last week:

Joe (LA)

Is Ryan Howard really worth 25 mil/year?

Joe Morgan
(11:08 AM)

Well, let's put it this way. If Joe Mauer is worth 23 or so. A guy that hits 40 plus HRs and drives in 140 runs a year and Joe Mauer has never done that, then I would say yes.

*head explodes*

Elsewhere in the chat you can find out why Joe thinks that Tim Lincecum is not yet a great pitcher.

The two Cy Youngs are nice but he has yet to have a 20-win season. He hasn't truly learned how to win yet.

Yep, that was pretty much it -- Lincecum only went 2-3 down the stretch last year which shows you that he hasn't learned how to step up his game. You can guess who Joe thought was the best pitcher in the NL last year (hint: Wainwright).

Joe Morgan
(11:02 AM)

Ryan Howard's $125 million contract has generated more than Joe Mauer's 180 million and Matt Halladay's contract. It should be mentioned that of the three, only Ryan Howard has a rookie of the year award, MVP award and a world championship to his credit. I'm a little confused at why he has generated such negative comments.

i mean, obv people are trolling him right?

Tom (Minneapolis)

Despite Sunday's outing, Johan Santana is an excellent pitcher. Besides skill, what is the main attribute he brings to the table for the Fellas of Flushing?

Joe Morgan
(11:10 AM)

I think his main strength is his mental toughness. He is a real tough competitor. Even giving up all of those home runs the other night, he never gave up and kept fighting. I always use the phrase with Bob Gibson. When he stepped on the mound and looked at you, his demeanor said to you as a hitter that you can't hit me. I see that in Santana. What I saw on Sunday was his fastball didn't have a lot of movement on it, even though he was throwing 91 and sometimes 92.

amazing

hold on

Pete (NC)

Are you surprised by the Nationals being over .500? Can they keep this up?
Joe Morgan
(11:08 AM)

I think I'm pleasantly surprised. I thought they would be better. I am surprised that they've played so well. Part of the reason is Livan Hernandez has pitched great for them. He's a veteran and when a veteran pitches well, it gives the team a little more confidence. You know he can sustain it.

RJ (Boston)

Mr. Morgan,Love your work, sir. Question... do you think we will ever see another speed renaissance, like we had in the 80's, with the Cardinals and Royals (and astroturf)? I miss those Herzog teams, terribly.
Joe Morgan
(11:09 AM)

Those teams were very exciting to watch, because you knew every day someone could use their speed to win a game every day. We went through a spell waiting for 3 run homers to win a game, but they don't happen every day. Speed is there every day. But I like a little bit of everything, but there's no doubt that speed helps.

lol troll

Bob (Bronx)

Joe, who do you think is a better pitcher right now, Zack Greinke or Carlos Silva? Carlos already has 3 more wins and 4 fewer losses than Zack.

You know he can sustain it.
You know he can sustain it.
You know he can sustain it.
You know he can sustain it.

On why the Phillies have been so successful:

"They compete day in and day out."

"They love to play the game."

Also: "They play the game for nine innings every night."

they must not win many home games

ADJUSTMEEEEEEEEEENNNNNNNTTTTTTTTSSSSS

"I don't know about zone ratings and all that"

^^ my fucking dude

He's heard of ZR! Baby steps.

'i played for some managers who should have been fired' lol

Joe Morgan on SAMPLE SIZES. He knows what they are but understands nothing! Great ESPN chat from him this week, btw, literally every answer was totally batshit. Worth a read.

Dan (New York)

Joe, given the missed call in the no hitter, I was very surprised to see that something like 75% of current players dont want any instant replay in baseball. Whats your take?
Joe Morgan
(11:27 AM)

First of all, it wasn't a scientific survey. It was just 50 guys taken from each league. There are 750 players. I think it was something like 13% of the players were polled. There wasn't big enough sampling.

I really enjoyed not having Joe Morgan and Jon Miller on ESPN last night. Orel and Bobby Valentine were a good duo and just poured on alot of interesting commentary to the ins and outs of last nights pretty great game..

More hall of fame events, please.

regular crew of Jon, Orel & Bobby V wd be OK with me. Joe, yr grandkids want you to tuck them in on Sunday nights.

Orel and Bobby Valentine were a good duo and just poured on alot of interesting commentary to the ins and outs of last nights pretty great game..

Funny how they both blurted "Bo Jackson!" when asked about the fastest RH hitter out of the box.

HERM EDWARDS SAYS WIN THE GAME

I had to listen to most of the postseason games on the radio while commuting home from work, so I had the "pleasure" of hearing Joe Morgan broadcasting from the World Series. It seems like something's wrong with the guy, he'll latch on to one phrase or idea and repeat it ad nauseum. Last night it was "Tim Lincecum is really on top of his game" (literally three times within about 60 seconds at the top of the 3rd inning), and the idea that Lincecum was doing a better job of starting batters off with the fastball than he did in his last game (repeated this trenchant observation about four times through the first four innings, with almost the exact same wording each time)

repeating a few thoughts constantly is the go-to "color analyst" style

Judging from the couple of Sunday games I watched this year, he really is losing it.

I heard him say that about Tim Lincecum when I was driving to the bar. It was weird.

Apparently, Joe Morgan AND Jon Miller both not coming back next year. Probably Dan Schulman and Orel Hershiser replacing.

world series festivities + no cameras = BOOZE

hthttp://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/11/08/espn-breaks-up-sunday-night-baseball-team/

http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/11/08/espn-breaks-up-sunday-night-baseball-team/

first andrew shirvell, now this! what a historic day in firings!

praise bob

BRING ON MATT VASDEFERENSVIRGINSURGEON

morgan won't be missed obv, but miller is wonderful to listen to and i'll miss him

He still does Giants radio and TV if you really miss him...

i like him, but i won't miss his inflection

say it ain't so, Clueless Joe.

Would like to see Sciambi get the play by play job. While I'm throwing out wishes, make it Sciambi/Simpson or Sciambi/Smoltz.

20 fucking years.

i'm a big jon miller fan too. the guy's clearly smart. anyone without his ineffable calm and equilibrium would have gone mad years ago.

i too will be missing Miller's "Bell....TRAY"

"TWO!"

"Shulman will likely be joined by former pitcher Orel Hershiser, who joined the Sunday Night booth last season, and perhaps Bobby Valentine, if teams keep passing him over for managing gigs"

http://imgur.com/cmE8b.jpg

What is ESPN's parting line on the firings?

I don't find Morgan particularly that offensive (nb: I only catch him in small doses).

i'd take those two over buck and mccarver any day of the week but yeah, it was time

like, morgan's an idiot but basically harmless. buck and mccarver actually come very very close to killing my interest in the world series. yeah, i could mute it but i love the sound of the crowd. you'd think in this crazy digital multicasting world there would at least be the option to hear only the ambient stadium feed, a la that ill-fated pro bowl back in the 80s

it wasn't a pro bowl, it was a regular season game -- Jets vs Dolphins

won't at all miss Miller's studious, pained, precise enunciation of Latin American players' surnames

^meh, lighten up.

Hershiser & esp Valentine a vast improvement over Number 8.

miller is a fucking bore i will never understand the love he gets

Man, you can't post 80% of the stomach-acid you spray on this board and then tell other people to lighten up. xp

I can if they're criticizing correct Spanish pronunciations

also Wm, you should see the posts I type out and don't submit

I like Miller a lot but I also dig Shulman so I ain't trippin'.

Yeah, Shulman is great. RIP Joe Morgan.

Behind the mic, Joe Morgan is better than Bobby Valentine imho. Joe Morgan is better than most of the people on this thread. This is one of those things where next year people are gonna be like "come back Joe, please?!?!?!"

I will not be one of those people.

I am definitely not looking forward to Valentine in the booth, though.

ludicrous, Armond SS

I will not be one of those people.

+1

Yeah, Shulman is great.

canadian conspiracy imo

"I never thought I'd see anything like this," Hall of Fame second baseman Joe Morgan told USA TODAY Sports in a telephone interview from Los Angeles on Tuesday. "But I've seen it coming."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2013/04/09/mlb-african-americans-in-baseball-jackie-robinson-42/2069119/