Say HEY! Willie Mays, 75 on Saturday

The Say Hey Kid has lots of fond memories, few regrets
John Shea, Chronicle Staff Writer
Wednesday, May 3, 2006

He's turning 75 on Saturday, and almost half of U.S. citizens weren't born when he played his final season 33 years ago. Their only image of Willie Mays might be the black-and-white film from the 1954 World Series or color clips of Mays running the bases at Candlestick Park, his legs accelerating and his cap falling.

Not everyone is familiar with the Say Hey Kid.

His five-tool distinction and childlike exuberance. His 3,283 hits and 660 home runs. His two MVPs and 12 Gold Gloves. His 24 All-Star appearances and four World Series.

His stickball commitment to the kids in Harlem. His Polo Grounds catch that robbed Vic Wertz. His four-homer game at Hank Aaron's home park in Milwaukee. His 16th-inning homer to beat Warren Spahn.

His peacekeeping mission in the Roseboro-Marichal brawl. His blasting caps commercial ("Don't touch them"). His temporary banishment by Bowie Kuhn. His tutelage of Barry Bonds.

Man, there are a lot of memories of Willie. The guy played three seasons in the Negro Leagues. He made it to the majors four years after Jackie Robinson broke the color line. He was a Giants rookie when Bobby Thomson hit the Shot Heard 'Round the World. He played in a World Series in his first and final years -- the center-field counterparts were Joe DiMaggio in 1951 and Reggie Jackson in 1973.

For folks relatively new to the planet, there's more to Mays than being Bonds' godfather. Three days before he turns the big seven-five, here's a glimpse at a few things baseball fans ought to know about the greatest living ballplayer, if not the greatest ballplayer, period, gathered in a recent interview at his Peninsula home:

On his boyhood idols

He had four of them. Robinson, for obvious reasons. Also: DiMaggio, Ted Williams and Stan Musial.

"All you saw on the front page in my hometown was Joe and Ted and Stan," said Mays, who grew up in Fairfield, Ala. "I wanted to pick which one I wanted to be like, and I picked Joe because Joe was a more all-around ballplayer than the other two. Joe couldn't hit like Ted and Stan, but he could do everything. I played the same kind of game."

On Willie Howard Mays Sr.

Willie the elder was a ballplayer, too, playing on all-black teams in the segregated South. He worked in a steel mill, which sponsored his semi-pro team. Willie, the younger, played with his dad when he was 14.

"Everybody knew him in Birmingham," Mays said. "They called him 'Cat' because he could run like a cat, very quick. When I played with him, I played center, he played left. I said, 'You play on the line, I'll take care of everything else.'

"He followed me to New York and then to San Francisco. He wasn't just my father. He was my friend. We could talk about anything, which was good for me."

Willie Sr. died in 1999 at 89. Willie's mother, Annie, died while he was still a New York Giant. She was a star sprinter in high school.

On his first professional memory

Willie missed his high school prom because he had to catch a train to Trenton, N.J., where he was beginning his pro career.

What a bummer.

"You're telling me?" he said. "(My date) was my girlfriend at the time. I bought the dress, the corsage, everything. But I had to get somebody to take her to the prom. I was told they needed me in Trenton the next morning, so I went. Baseball was more important to me than the prom. Baseball was my livelihood."

Mays hit .353 with four homers and 55 RBIs in 81 games for Trenton.

On his favorite memento

Mays set more records than he can remember, but what he cherishes most is his scouting report. It's typewritten and dated May 6-10, 1951, when he was with Triple-A Minneapolis.

Some excerpts: "Everything that he does is sensational."... "(He) has made the most spectacular catches, runs and throws with the best of them." ..."Sensational negro boy is the outstanding player in Minneapolis club and probably in all minor leagues for that matter." ..."He is now in one of the best hitting streaks imaginable." ... "(He) hits to all fields and hits all pitches."

A few days after the scouting report was filed, Mays was a major-leaguer, at age 20. In 35 games at Minneapolis, he hit .477 with eight homers and 30 RBIs.

Getting called to the big leagues, he said, was his biggest career thrill.

On breaking into the majors

Mays started his big-league career 0-for-12, then 1-for-26 with a home run off Spahn. Still, he retained the faith of Giants manager Leo Durocher, who knew the kid would be great. Mays was at his locker, crying, when Durocher came over and assured him he'd remain the center fielder.

"Leo never bothered me," Mays said. "He said, 'You play your game, I'll take care of the other eight.' The only time he told me what to do is sometimes he gave me the take sign on 3-0. I didn't even get that too much."

Mays was the league's top rookie in 1951, hitting .274 with 20 homers and 68 RBIs in 121 games.

On the 'The Shot Heard 'Round the World'

Mays was on deck when Thomson's homer off Ralph Branca beat the Dodgers for the 1951 pennant.

"I thought they'd let me hit. I thought they'd walk Bobby," Mays said. "I was happy it wasn't me. I was on deck, but I was the last guy to the plate after Bobby scored. I was so nervous."

On wearing No. 24

Mays began his big-league career as No. 14. Jack Maguire had 24. A few days later, Maguire was traded, and 24 went to Mays.

"That's the number they gave me," Mays said. "In those days, you didn't ask for a number because someone else wore it. You were just so glad to get a number."

The Giants have retired 24. When Bonds first signed with the Giants, he wanted to wear 24 because of Mays, his godfather. Barry settled for 25, his dad Bobby's old number.

The Giants' ballpark is at 24 Willie Mays Plaza, and Mays' bronze statue is surrounded by 24 palm trees. The right-field wall is 24 feet high.

Mays said he wore 28 at Minneapolis.

On the origin of 'Say Hey Kid'

When Mays came to the majors, he didn't know everyone's name right away.

"You see a guy, you say, 'Hey, man. Say hey, man,' " Mays said. "Ted was the 'Splinter'. Joe was 'Joltin' Joe'. Stan was 'The Man'. I guess I hit a few home runs, and they said there goes the 'Say Hey Kid.' "

Mays credits sportswriter Jimmy Cannon with creating the nickname. Other sources trace it to sportswriter Barney Kremenko.

On the origin of the basket catch

Another example of how he was set apart from others. Catching flies at his waist rather than over his head was standard practice for Mays. He said he worked on it while playing ball in the Army in the early '50s.

"I wanted to do something different than other guys playing the outfield," Mays said. "When I came out of the Army, Leo said I could do it. Just don't drop it. I missed two. One in Pittsburgh, one in New York. Ten years apart. I was pretty polished."

On the famous World Series catch

The play was known as The Catch. Mays remembers it as The Throw.

Game 1, '54 Series, Polo Grounds, eighth inning, 2-2 score. Cleveland's Larry Doby on second, Al Rosen on first, Vic Wertz at the plate. Wertz smashes the ball 450 to 460 feet to center, seemingly beyond Mays' reach. But Mays gloved it over his shoulder and, in one motion, fired it back to the infield.

"It was a wide-receiver catch. I knew I'd get it. It was high enough where I could catch it. That wasn't the problem," Mays said. "The hardest thing was getting it back to the infield. I knew Larry could score if I didn't get the ball back quickly. I scored lots of times from second base on a deep fly that was caught. That was the only thing I was worried about."

Doby returned to second, tagged and went to third, Rosen retreated to first. The Indians didn't score in the inning, and the Giants won on Dusty Rhodes' pinch homer in the 10th, then swept the Series.

On why the Giants didn't win a title in San Francisco

No team has played in one city longer than the Giants without winning a World Series. In San Francisco, they're 0-for-48.

The first 14 years were on Mays' watch.

"We had some good hitters on our club. A lot of times, we just never had more than two starting pitchers," Mays said. "When we won the pennant in '62, we had five good pitchers. We should've won it that year."

Instead, the Yankees won in seven games. With two outs in the ninth inning of Game 7, Mays doubled to right, sending Matty Alou to third. Willie McCovey then lined out to second baseman Bobby Richardson, and the Giants lost 1-0.

"It had rained and rained, and that ball I hit didn't rattle around in the corner because the field was too wet. It stopped," said Mays, recalling right fielder Roger Maris cutting it off. "I wish I would've been the runner instead of Matty. If I was the runner, I'd have probably tried to score. If I was out, I was out. I wouldn't have been watching the stop sign. The relay was to Richardson, and his throw was up the line a little bit. I would've run. There would've been some type of collision at home plate. It wouldn't have bothered me."

On his greatest regret

Mays didn't want to leave San Francisco, but owner Horace Stoneham, looking to save a buck, had him dealt to the Mets in the first month of the 1972 season.

"I didn't ever want to be traded," he said. "You're with a club so long, you don't want to go anywhere. But when I got to New York, it was like I never left. All the players hugged me and asked where I'd been so many years."

In his first game with the Mets, Mays hit a homer to beat the Giants.

On how Bonds could have been chasing Mays, not Aaron

Mays missed all but 34 games in 1952 and all of 1953 to serve in the Army. He estimates it cost him between 70 and 80 homers.

"Easy," Mays said. "That was two years I lost."

Candlestick Park also cost him. The late Giants beat writer Bob Stevens said Mays would have hit 800 homers if not for the tough Candlestick conditions.

Do the math: Without the military or the 'Stick, that's 870 to 880 homers.

"I don't like to look at it that way," Mays said. "I like to look at it as, I had a good 20, 22 years. I had my time, and I enjoyed my time."

On why he didn't manage

One reason Mays didn't want to manage, he said, was because he didn't think he'd succeed.

"I could've done that," he said, "but I don't think I would've been a good manager because I think I would've expected too much out of the players. I was told Frank (Robinson, the Nationals' 70-year-old manager) was very difficult on players the first few years because he was such a great player. Now he's mellowed and can handle it."

Mays revealed that Peter Magowan asked him about managing when his group bought the Giants after the 1992 season. Then, Mays was 61.

On why he'd rather teach

One of Mays' pastimes is visiting spring training and hanging in the clubhouse with young players. He'd like to take it to another level.

"I'd like to teach them," he said. "Give me six kids. Not just major-league kids, but kids from the minors. Take them out, work with them, see their progress. Let the club know they could call up a kid and he'd do something. Baserunning, hitting, fielding.

"What I see nowadays, they don't have the baserunning skills. They catch too much with one hand. The hardest thing is believing what I say. Once they believe, the other part is easy."

On Bonds' steroid plight

Bonds gets booed on the road while the treatment for Jason Giambi and Gary Sheffield isn't as harsh despite their shared involvement in the BALCO steroid case.

"My thing is, he shouldn't have to go through it by himself," Mays said. "There were seven other guys out there, I was told, and they're being left alone. (Mark) McGwire quit. Sammy (Sosa) quit. (Rafael) Palmeiro quit.

"It's just my opinion, but I'd like for everybody to say, 'Whatever happened in the past, let it go.' From this day on, we're making tighter rules. You do something wrong, we'll penalize you, because they have no proof, the way I understand it. I may be wrong.

"Let's move on. Let him play. Let him have fun. He'll be better off if they let him alone for a while. But that's not going to happen."

On whether Aaron's catchable

Bonds has 712 homers, and it's only a matter of time before he surpasses Ruth's 714. But what about Aaron's 755? This is Bonds' final season of his contract, and he turns 42 in July.

"If he hits 30, 35 this year, he's got a shot at it," Mays said. "But if he hits only 20, 22, it may be too much for him."

On turning 75

"I'm not a birthday guy," Mays said. "I like simple things. Get a cake and get it over with and go on to the next one, hopefully."

http://sfgate.com/c/pictures/2006/05/03/sp_scanlib_willie_ma.jpg
[I love this pic]

http://www.achievement.org/achievers/may0/large/may0-008.jpg

The only oldtimer who needed help walking at Shea yesterday. :(

Willie seems like an OLD 78... :\

77

Memoir coming next month:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/31/sports/baseball/31mays.html?hp

sorry, my Sunday morning comprehension is iffy -- it's essentially an authorized bio, not a memoir.

say h80!

50th anniversary (Sunday) of a pretty good game.

http://www.highheatstats.com/2013/07/50-years-ago-a-look-back-at-marichal-and-spahn/#more-14489

http://www.highheatstats.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Spahn-Marichal-Box-score-212x300.jpg

looks like marichal's game score was 112! spahn's was a mere 97.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/SFN/SFN196307020.shtml

i can't seem to find a way to look up the pitch counts, though.

Seven HOF'ers, with four of them accounting for 2448 HR, and the two starters just over 600 wins. Attendance: 15,921!

Z S:

Marichal threw 227 pitches; Spahn threw 201.

From a nice little article: http://www.mercurynews.com/giants/ci_23576887/marichal-spahn-epic-duel-was-50-years-ago

Alvin Dark tried to take Marichal out for the first time in the ninth. The conversation did not go well. Marichal refused to go, pointing to the Braves dugout at the 42-year-old counterpart and telling his manager, "I am not going to come out of that game as long as that old man is still pitching."

Dark tried again in the 12th, again to no avail. Before the 15th, Marichal thought he spotted a reliever coming in from the bullpen, so he hastily grabbed his glove and cap and raced out to the mound to reclaim his territory.

when men were men and hitters weren't that good.

Didn't realize this was out there till I saw it in a bookstore today:

http://i1059.photobucket.com/albums/t427/sayhey1/barra_zps4fbec2dd.jpg

Still on the expensive side. Barra's great.

superstar living, 1954

http://thestacks.deadspin.com/willie-mays-mvp-eats-breakfast-in-his-little-rented-a-1349890009

I love the first comment: "This photo is why Marvin Miller should be in the Hall Of Fame"

http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2014/10/16/6990323/heres-a-picture-of-willie-mays-holding-a-dog-in-an-elevator

OMG PUPPEH!

Happy now?

yeah you also ignored the beautiful 'happiness is a mets victory' picture i posted FOR YOU MORBS.

yes, yr a good man. xp

No, I didn't! Just silent. I've read about that kid's banner for decades (it's not me).

I'll put this here instead of the Trout thread:

http://www.halosheaven.com/2015/9/30/9424049/mike-trout-five-tool-players-in-mlb-angels

Bought an old issue of Life today (James Earl Ray/Sirhan Sirhan cover) and found this ad inside:

https://smokingwithhank.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/willie-mays-franks-redhot1.jpg

https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xlf1/v/t1.0-9/12278622_10153199025701828_7951385441482582750_n.jpg?oh=418ca45407ac7a388f73e0b8f5b7eb16&oe=56E5C5FB

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ChzLJSIXEAAw9Zb.jpg

85

I had my vintage Mays shirt on at the Jays game tonight.

Happy Birthday to the Say Hey Kid. 85 and was at the ballpark for his birthday.

You've probably seen this by now--can't figure out how to embed the clip.

http://www.mccoveychronicles.com/2016/5/6/11614296/president-obama-willie-mays-happy-birthday

Little things mean a lot. Notwithstanding that there's staff there to initiate and look after these things, I don't think you'd have seen this if McCain or Romney had been president.

that was Great! thanks for sharing clemenza.

otoh everyone would give Kissinger a medal, that we all know

...that is, Jesus fucking Christ.

I've tried hard the past year-plus not to respond to your idiocy, but this time I will. Did it ever occur to you that a gesture like that might mean something to Willie Mays?

it was fine til you brought McCain and Mitt into it. Just pretend America isn't here.

When I saw his name at the top of that newsy Facebook sidebar, I assumed that was it. No--anniversary of the Catch.

On this date in 1954, Willie Mays made one of the most iconic defensive plays in World Series history. The Giants center fielder tracked down Vic Wertz's long fly ball to make "The Catch" — an over-the-head basket grab in deep center field at the Polo Grounds — during a crucial moment in Game 1 against the Indians. The Giants went on to win the World Series in a four-game sweep.

Today, Major League Baseball announced that the World Series MVP trophy has been renamed in honor of the Say Hey Kid.

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/256686298/world-series-mvp-award-renamed-for-willie-mays/

That rules

88 today

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UduDreaZq6c

And Happy Birthday too to Orson Welles and Sigmund Freud--May 6, genius day.

and John Flansburgh of They Might be Giants and frogbs

Have a good one--great day for your birthday.

say HEY

90 today. (Can't find the thread I once started on May 6 birthdays--Mays, Orson Welles, and Freud.)

91 today, happy birthday

https://www.mlb.com/news/willie-mays-best-stats-and-accomplishments

Hope to see this somewhere:

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/hbo-willie-mays-documentary-1235229775/

Still one of the greatest moments in baseball history pic.twitter.com/EsPYqCXRaf

— BaseballHistoryNut (@nut_history) December 13, 2022

It really was, I'd agree. I don't think Mays is all that mobile these days, but if at all possible, I really wish they'd do the same for him next All-Star Game.

He was at one of the last games of the season - had hip surgery recently and wants to be at spring training.

There was a good SI piece about this, about how he didn’t want to be seen as a a museum piece and just enjoys spending time in the clubhouse with players.

I respect anything Willie says or wants, but watching all those players gather around Williams that year was just unbelievable--especially Gwynn next to him, whose chance at .400 five years earlier was cut short by the strike. (If you have a sharp eye, apparently there are 19 HOF'ers in that photo.)

I kept meaning to post this and today I found it in my tabs: Willie Mays talking to young Giants rookies in winter 2009. Bold from the original formatting, italics his!

The 25 or so young players sat in chairs encircling Mays, who sat behind a small table.

“All right, guys, c’mon, what else?’’ Mays said, prompting the next question.

Ever get timed in the 60?
“No, no! I didn’t run! I told them, ‘I can’t run the ball over the fence.’ When they were out running, I was asleep in the clubhouse. They got you just running here? You doing some hitting?’’

No, the players said. Just conditioning work.
“That’s not fun! Maybe I should say something. You want to hit a little bit and then go run. You got to enjoy yourself.’’

He told them about his struggles against Drysdale, Gibson, Koufax and Bob Rush then added: “I made up for it on all the other guys, the scrubs. I destroyed them.’’

Best players you ever saw?
Robert Clemente, Mays said. Barry Bonds — “If I don’t say Barry, he’ll start a fight.’’ Bobby Bonds (Now, he could run!’’ ) , Maury Wills (“Played a good shortstop.’’) and Frank Robinson (“Triple Crown winner’’).

What did you do in the off-season?
“Work, man, work! That’s a very good question. I played basketball, football — touch football — they didn’t know I played football! I had a 32 waistline. I worked out and played all the time. No time to lay around. Had to keep myself in shape. Played winter ball two times.’’

We’ve heard from other major-league players about what makes a good teammate. What’s your definition?
“In 1962, they made me captain. I positioned the outfielders, the infielders, I’d call pitches from centerfield — he didn’t have to take them but I wanted him throw a pitch I thought I could catch. You had to get 25 guys playing together even though nine or ten don’t play much at all and it feels bad. I’d go to the manager and say, ‘I want this guy to play because he needs to feel part of the team.’ The guy would go 9 for 10 and he’d go sit down and feel like a part of the team. When guys had problems at home, they’d come to me and I’d call their wives. I knew the wives better than I knew the players!’’

Your greatest baseball achievement?
“Man, I had so many! I think my greatest achievement was when I signed my major-league contract.’’

Greatest moment?
“Hitting four home runs in Milwaukee (with 8 RBI) was the greatest thing I ever did.’’

Best park to hit in?
“Wrigley. To me the ball went out of there pretty good.’’

Worst park to hit in?
“Candlestick. The wind’s always blowing in. We put a glove to a fence to see if it would fall and it didn’t fall. We could even hit it out in batting practice.
“I know you guys are saying, ‘Oh, hell, he didn’t do all this stuff. Oh yes I did.’’

What was your farthest home run?
“I never worried about that! You just get it over the fence! You don’t care how far it went.’’

What effect did race have back when you played?
“We went to some towns and I couldn’t stay in the same hotel. I remember once in Hagerstown, they dropped me off on the other side of the tracks. You guys from the South, you know what the other side of the track is. So they drop me off and I’m in a hotel, and at 2 o’clock in the morning two or three guys come through the window and sleep the rest of the night on my floor, and then at 6 a.m. they get up and go back out the window. They did the same thing the next night, watching out for me. Nothing was ever said.

“My father told me no matter what anybody said, never to fight. Turn the other cheek. I’d call him up and he’d ask, “Did you fight today?’ Back then, you had to make sure you were bigger than those people who called you names. They called you all kinds of names. But I knew for me to get ahead, I had to take all that kind of stuff. Every time somebody called me a name, I hit the ball.’’

What did you do in a slump?
“A slump is going to happen to everybody in some way. For me, a slump was 0-for-10. Everyone has a different way of getting out of a slump. I’d get out by swinging inside-out and getting a hit that way.’’

Throughout Mays’ talk, the young guys snapped photos with their cell phone, leaning close, recording forever their moment with the greatest player who ever stepped on a baseball field.

I have a great Willie Mays story involving a collector friend of mine.

My friend's a hardcore collector, so he wants things signed a precise way: certain kind of Sharpie, certain spot, perfectly legible, etc. He was at a show to get Mays' signature--having paid a pretty good amount, I'm sure--and when he got up to the table, Mays wouldn't use the Sharpie my friend offered him. So my friend said something like "Okay, fine; I'm going to go and get a refund." He starts to walk away, and Mays call him back. With great disdain, he takes my friend's Sharpie and half-heartedly signs whatever it was my friend had brought along (not a card; probably a photo). I can't remember if my friend was satisfied or not, but he took his item and went and stood by a wall. Mays, who had continued signing, spotted my friend and stopped everything.

"I'm not signing anything more until that guy"--points at my friend--"leaves."

That's as much as I remember; there was no great drama at the end, so I assume my friend just left, content with the autograph and the story he could tell for the rest of his life.

I really can’t understand that mentality. You’re meeting a living legend and you complain about the marker. Would personally never tell that story.

I would never pay for an autography myself (though I regret just a little not getting Thomson/Branca to sign together in one of the two Cooperstown trips I made), but that's a whole different world. Mays and players of his stature are getting paid extremely well; my friend is entitled to get a clear autograph for his money. I mean, that's the basic agreement.

I mean literally implying the guy won’t sign his name right? I’d be insulted too.

Don't get me wrong, I revere Mays. And I'm much more open to players from the '50s and '60s--especially African-American players--making good money at these signings; they were criminally underpaid throughout their careers. But with that stipulated, it's still a transaction where both parties should be happy.

I'm not sure what you mean...my friend doesn't imply that Mays wouldn't sign; it's that he wanted to sign with just a regular pen, which is just not what an autograph collector wants for his (guessing, and I'm not sure how far back this was) ~$100 or $150.

"autography"--I invented a new word. It's like an autograph, but more fun.

If you have 150-200 to spend on someone’s signature… maybe just take the L and don’t be a dick to Willie Mays ffs

Sorry 100-150!

I think where your buddy went wrong was in saying he was gonna get a refund. Makes him sound like a prima donna.

So if you can afford something, it's okay to not get what you thought you were paying for? What should my friend have done: said, "That's fine, sign with whatever you want--crayon will be fine"? If he doesn't get a clear signature, it's of no value to him--that's what a collector wants, even though such a mindset might not make sense to me or you.

If you read the post I made right before yours, Mays speaks pretty plainly about the things he went through as a black player to the point his teammates felt the need to sleep in his room to protect him. I think living through shit like that would make anyone pretty intolerant of lots of petty nonsense. Your friend was entitled to his autograph, he wasn’t entitled to tsk tsk a guy who’s probably gone through more shit then he’ll ever live through in his life because he preferred to use a biro.

What should my friend have done: said, "That's fine, sign with whatever you want--crayon will be fine"?

Yes.

We're going to have to disagree--a first, I know. My friend knows Mays's background very well, I assure you; he knows all about Willie Mays, that's why he wants his autograph. (His favourite player ever is Clemente.) But older players, black and white, make a lot of money signing autographs. People who watched them growing up go to those shows to get their autographs. And if the autograph is to have value--display value, investment value, whatever--something that's not going to last, or is illegible, isn't good enough. That's the understood transaction that's taking place.

Jimbeaux, I think I'd love to do business with you.

Funny thing is, gyac, my friend got under my skin once by saying something I could easily imagine you saying: told me that he loves the game for the art, and I love it for numbers. I told him that he was being really sanctimonious, and that he was missing a fundamental truth that there is art in baseball numbers.

That's the understood transaction that's taking place.

I am guessing he was using something that was fit for the purpose anyway. Your friend was just being an ass.

He quite likely wanted sign with a ballpoint pen. Which are terrible for autographs.

Let me recap as I understand it:
- your friend, a collector, wants Willie Mays’s autograph
- he pays whatever fee and joins the queue
- when he meets Mays, he asks him to sign with a sharpie, Mays doesn’t want to
- rather than accept an autograph signed with a pen, your friend decides he would rather have no autograph at all and goes to leave
- Mays, clearly annoyed, calls him back, signs with the marker but doesn’t put much effort into it
- your friend hangs around, Mays would very much like this guy out of his sight
- despite the bolded sentence, the key part, we are supposed to sympathise with your friend?

I didn't tell the story looking for anyone to sympathize with him! I actually thought it was a funny story. Only after the usual crew of three or four people materialized out of thin air to argue with me did I feel the need to defend him (which he'd find highly amusing, seeing as often he and I disagree). And yeah, if you're not happy that what you're about to get isn't what you paid for--cf. the San Francisco Giants and New York Mets--you'd rather have no autograph at all. That seems pretty basic to me.

I'm guessing my friend hung around because he wasn't satisfied with the autograph and was thinking about what he should do. I don't think there was a stipulation that people were to vacate the room immediately after their item had been signed.

Forgot it was Willie Mays/Orson Welles/Sigmund Freud day.

https://www.mlb.com/news/willie-mays-best-stats-and-accomplishments

92 is quite another accomplishment, Happy Birthday!

At the ballpark:

Always a special day when we get to celebrate Willie 🧡 pic.twitter.com/UdVWn75aI5

— SFGiants (@SFGiants) May 7, 2023

That's great. I'll say it again: dedicate the next All-Star Game to him while they still have the chance (and try to talk him into attending).

Today is Willie Mays Day (2/4/24)* and the Giants have been sharing videos with tributes:

Will Clark:

HAPPY WILLIE MAYS DAY!!! 🐐

A story about the GOAT showing up Kevin Mitchell and me: https://t.co/80vI8ZMawO pic.twitter.com/EVhVbHZ9wO

— Will Clark (@WillClark22) February 4, 2024

24 shouts out 24 🐐 @Mariners pic.twitter.com/RmVvxX0QAF

— SFGiants (@SFGiants) February 4, 2024

At 7:24 a.m., San Francisco Mayor London Breed officially proclaimed today -- 2/4/24 -- Willie Mays Day. Here's the report from City Hall and what S.F. and the @sfgiants are doing to celebrate the Say Hey Kid: https://t.co/8MyzBMillT via @sfchronicle

— John Shea (@JohnSheaHey) February 4, 2024

Will look at those when I get home. You know what my thought was when I saw this revived.

I think people have said this before, I should have prefaced with HE’S NOT DEAD

Vic Wertz, born February 9, 1925.

https://i.postimg.cc/8CkNFYp2/vic.jpg

Totally forgot till a friend's FB post reminded me: 93 today.

I was going to update this thread but I didn’t want you to think he died

Willie Mays was standing at the batting cage. I stuck my hand out. "I'm Jim Bouton."

“Oh sure,” he said. “Jim Bouton. I know you.

“You’ve always been one of my heroes,” he said. “When I was a kid, my brother and I always used to go up to the Polo Grounds to watch you play.”

"Now, why'd you have to go and say you came to see me when you were a kid?" Willie Mays said, his voice squeaky with mock anger.

"And you know something, Willie?" Tommy Davis said. "He's only thirty-five years old."

Mays groaned. "Why couldn't you just come over and say 'Hi'?" he said. "Now I feel like an old man."

Funny, he doesn’t look like an old man. Especially when he plays baseball.

RIP

What? Wow and the national game on Fox on Thursday.

RIP

I saw a note on Instagram posted by the Giants about how he couldn’t attend the game due to not being able to move around well, which I assumed was just his age, but yeah. What a life he had. RIP.

RIP. One of the true all times greats.

Ah, geez, with that game coming up. He was a question in our monthly trivia last night (24 Willie Mays Drive). And when I was playing tennis tonight and members had to pick a shoe medallion from #1-40, I reflexively took 24.

literally just passed by the statue outside oracle. rip

For almost 30 years I've wondered if he ever tried to get the e-mail address I grabbed in the early '90s: say✧✧✧@rocketm✧✧✧.c✧✧.

(I guess the stars are automatic.)

My favourite quote of his, from the blog where he’s talking to Giants rookies in 2009, which I pasted upthread

“I know you guys are saying, ‘Oh, hell, he didn’t do all this stuff. Oh yes I did.’’

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GQZmS_FW0AAI0wJ?format=jpg&name=large

Cover I came up with for Radio On #4 (1994 or '95)

https://i.postimg.cc/Fsq8N7ty/willie.jpg

The text is from a Barbara Lewis song: "Tell me you can't stay put too long in one place/Without a word you go running off to some place."

CNN had Charles Barkley on: "Mr. Mays, Mr. Aaron."

The Greatest Ever.

RIP. Can't believe he's really gone, but what a life he had.

Mays vs. Koufax: https://stathead.com/baseball/vs/sandy-koufax-vs-willie-mays

Edge to Mays.

Mays vs. Gibson: https://stathead.com/baseball/vs/bob-gibson-vs-willie-mays

Whoah--now that's dominance.

at the risk of sounding like a hack baseball writer Jackson Chourio just hit an inside the park HR which very much looked like some of the Willie Mays highlights I've seen, helmet flying off just trucking around 3rd

Here's something I never knew: "Only two men no taller than 5'10" have hit more than 360 home runs: Mel Ott, who hit 511, and Mays, far out front with 660."

https://www.si.com/mlb/willie-mays-obituary-the-say-hey-kid

Incredible athlete. RIP.

RIP

Sheehan:

Close your eyes, just for a second, and picture a baseball player.

Is he in the box, bat held low, coiled, focused, potential energy seconds from becoming kinetic?

Is he rounding second, gliding more than he is running, triple on his mind?

Is his back to the diamond as he races across a sunny patch of green grass, chasing down a baseball that never had a chance to fall safely?

Is he young, the world at his feet?

Is he smiling?

Tell a fan to picture a baseball player, and there’s a pretty good chance their mind will turn to Willie Mays. Mays, who died Tuesday at the age of 93, days before MLB’s Negro Leagues tribute game in Alabama, was baseball, a do-it-all player who did it all with joy, with flair, with style. Mays, one of the last superstars to begin his career in the Negro Leagues, may have been the best to ever play our game. He did everything a baseball player could do to win games short of taking the mound.

Mays hit for average, .301 lifetime. He hit for power, with 660 career home runs, and spent much of his career second all-time behind Babe Ruth. He ran, stealing 339 bases and leading the league four years in a row at a time when the stolen base was in retreat. That speed was always on display in center field, where he ranks among the best to ever cover the 8, in part because of an arm that was strong and true. In one of the deepest competitive environments in baseball history, the National League post-integration, Mays’s teams won four pennants and one World Series, falling a game short of two other championships. His signature play -- just “The Catch” -- in the 1954 World Series is one of the iconic moments in baseball history.

The Say Hey Kid -- a nickname of disputed origins, but likely tied to Mays’s use of the phrase -- had more tools, though. He connected with people. Growing up in New York well after Mays’s career ended, one of the first things I ever learned about him was that he played stickball in the street, just like, and with, regular New York kids. He was fun to watch, his hat flying off as he went first to third, as he turned a double into an out. He was regular-sized, listed at 5’10”, 170, hardly intimidating, looking like someone you might be able to strike out if he showed up on your block waving a broomstick. Four sewers and one lost Spaldeen later...

Mays’s career bridged black-and-white to color, grass to turf, leagues to divisions, flannel to doubleknit. By the time of his rookie season in the NL, 1951, just six MLB teams had put a Black man on the field. In 1973, his final year, six Black men started in the All-Star Game. Jackie Robinson was respected for his play and for his toughness under unimaginable strain. Mays, though, was the first Black baseball player to be loved, first by the baseball world, and then the wider sports world beyond that.

Well, except for sportswriters. You know the best argument for WAR? Mays led the NL in WAR ten times. He won two MVPs. Which of those figures makes more sense to you?

Mays’s greatness, though, wasn’t in the numbers, it wasn’t even in the great defensive plays and cannonball runs from first to home and 24 trips to the All-Star Game.

No, what we can take from Mays’s career, and his life beyond it, is this: Willie Mays was baseball’s most beloved player. Whether you followed his career from the grandstand or on YouTube, whether you argued Willie vs. Mickey vs. The Duke or are not entirely sure who those other guys are, if you love baseball, there’s a little piece of you missing today.

We’ve lost Willie Mays, and there’s no replacing him.

Goddamn, this was crushing to hear, especially with the Rickwood game coming up tomorrow. It's gonna have a lot more emotional heft now.

Waiting on what I expect will be a small-book-length post from Posnanski today.

Everyone got most upset with my Willie Mays autograph story last year (which still makes me laugh! sorry), so let me make up for it here.

https://i.postimg.cc/J4yVsZ76/rickwood.jpg

Amazing photo!

One thing I've thought about over the years was how it was always comforting knowing Willie was still alive and kickin' in SF where I live. Just made this place feel more relevant and somehow made the bygone eras of both the city and baseball here still feel alive in some capacity. I'm so happy he was able to witness the championships a decade ago. RIP, legend.

Highly recommend Leo Durocher's Nice Guys Finish Last, which has lots and lots and lots of Mays. I'll look for a good excerpt tonight.

https://www.saturdayeveningpost.com/wp-content/uploads/satevepost/2021-04-12-willie-mays-leo-durocher-seps.jpg

"I don't move as well as I used to."

https://i.postimg.cc/Jz7ydJdB/mays.jpg

Posting too much, I know...They did kind of artfully not mention Gibson in #10 here:

https://www.mlb.com/news/willie-mays-best-stats-and-accomplishments

Love all these stories and memories. The game tomorrow is going to be intense.

I was Zooming last night with an internet friend (we've never met) from San Francisco who saw Mays all through his prime, going back to 1958, when he was five.

I think I have a 60s WM baseball card

Posnanski's Mays post went up today. It's less about Mays than trying to decide who is now the Greatest Living Player. I guess he wrote so much about Mays in The Baseball 100--Mays was #1--he didn't want to repeat himself.

He starts with the idea that Bonds is obviously the GLP, but eventually, and circuitously, settles on Griffey, which will no doubt raise the ire of many.

Gleaned one interesting thing from a quick skim. In '69, when the writers chose their greatest all-time and greatest living players lists, they moved Mays to RF so they could get him onto the living list:

RHP: Walter Johnson (All-Time); Bob Feller (Living--died in 2010)
LHP: Lefty Grove (All-Time); Lefty Grove (Living--died in 1975)
C: Mickey Cochrane (All-Time); Bill Dickey (Living--died in 1993)
1B: George Sisler (All-Time); George Sisler and Stan Musial (Living)
2B: Rogers Hornsby (All-Time); Charlie Gehringer (Living--died in 1993)
3B: Pie Traynor (All-Time); Pie Traynor (Living--died in 1972)
SS: Honus Wagner (All-Time); Joe Cronin (Living--died in 1984)
LF: Ty Cobb (All-Time); Ted Williams (Living--died in 2002)
CF Joe DiMaggio (All-Time); Joe DiMaggio (Living--died in 1999)
RF: Babe Ruth (All-Time); Willie Mays (Living--died in 2024)

"There’s a little bit to unpack here, particularly the fact that the writers put Willie Mays in rightfield to get him on the living team, which, you know, on the one hand, I get it, because having an all-time living baseball team without Willie Mays would have been ridiculous. On the other hand, listing Willie Mays as a rightfielder is like listing Leonardo Da Vinci as an auto mechanic. I’m sure he’d have been able to do one helluva tuneup, but it entirely misses the point."

Thinking about Jerry West and the NBA logo, this is a great idea.

https://www.tsn.ca/video/buster-olney-willie-mays-absolutely-should-be-new-mlb-logo~2943148

Haven't won since Mays passing. Down to 2 starters. This year's team just isn't any good, mediocre.

I need something else to do.

Wrong thread

from the old tyme baseball photos thread, h/t gyac

I follow former SI photographer Walter Iooss on IG (you should too) and he posted this pic he took of Willie Mays the other day on Mays’s 90th bday. Pull this picture out every time someone says “they didn’t have athletes then like we have now.” pic.twitter.com/y6buSb1o54

— Harry Arnett (@harryarnett) May 7, 2021

no idea what that last line of my post is doing there

Greil Marcus, of all people--he is from the Bay Area--got a long "Ask Greil" about Willie Mays that he responded to today. I'll only include the last bit of the question; I like his answer.

I'm sure as a Bay Area native, you have fond memories of Willie Mays, as do all baseball fans for his talents were wonderous, but whatever his civil rights battles were, they were mostly private, sad to say. —JAMES R STACHO

I imagine that in some part of his being, every day Willie Mays said to himself, not in these words, but in his own, I am my own revolution. How did he feel that night in 1963 when in the bottom of the 16-inning scoreless tie with Warren Spahn and Juan Marichal on the mound for every pitch he ended it with a home run? Oh, I feel so fine, I am so lucky to be allowed to play this wonderful game? Or was it, Take that, you fuckers. Go back down in the ground, you Klan killers. You’ll never catch me.

A lot of people saw that. A lot of people felt that. There’s no way to measure to what degree Willie Mays might have inspired the people at the Cleveland Summit to do what they did even if he didn’t do it, even if he thought, I had to do my service, go on and do yours--which I doubt.

(The Cleveland Summit being the famous gathering of Black athletes in 1967 to support Ali--not attended by Mays or anybody else from MLB.)

He may well have thought that. I was reading about how Henry “Hank” Aaron* and Jackie Robinson were angry that Mays never spoke out over the racism he and they faced. There’s this interview I always think of, from 2009, totally casual talk to young Giants players:

“My father told me no matter what anybody said, never to fight. Turn the other cheek. I’d call him up and he’d ask, “Did you fight today?’ Back then, you had to make sure you were bigger than those people who called you names. They called you all kinds of names. But I knew for me to get ahead, I had to take all that kind of stuff. Every time somebody called me a name, I hit the ball.’’

Finally watched the Reggie interview earlier today--fantastic. (I had to laugh at a couple of side issues: when Reggie included A-Rod on his list of all-time greats, wondered if Jeter did a slow burn; and when Ortiz brought up the HOF, wondered the same about A-Rod.)

"I am my own revolution"--love that.

Any Black player pre-'68 or so had a second overriding fact to deal with aside from society in general: baseball was far more conservative than basketball or football.

Re the Reggie interview: knowing how much all the A's hated Charlie Finley when it came to anything related to money, I thought it was gracious of Jackson to mention Finley walking the team out when his country club wouldn't let Jackson attend a ceremony (they relented).

I haven’t finished this yet but very good piece regarding Mays, Robinson and their respective politics:

https://frontofficesports.com/willie-mays-humility-key-to-his-genius/

Will read that for sure.

I came across this in the days after but didn't want to post it so soon.

https://www.villagevoice.com/hank-aaron-and-willie-mays-new-revelations-on-just-how-much-they-hated-each-other/

Do I believe the piece? Yes--Allen Barra is an excellent baseball writer.

Does it make me think any less of Mays? Not in the least--if he did have some resentment towards Aaron, I think that would be unfortunate but very human. 1) Mays spent most of his career as the guy who was going to pass Babe Ruth--first him and Mantle, then just him. To see his body break down while Aaron kept going, I'm sure that stung. 2) I could be wrong here, but Mays in the '50s might have led something of a double life. The overwhelming reality was life as a Black player, and all the garbage that went along with that. But maybe he also saw himself as part of New York baseball royalty, along with Mantle and Robinson and Berra and DiMaggio and everyone else. Which, for millions, he was. To see this guy in Milwaukee--and later, playing for a team in the deep South--come along and surpass him, maybe that stung too.

A friend - in his 80s, and a lifelong baseball nut - says: “ I don't think the article got the facts about Henry Aaron right. I always understood that he was outspoken and felt obligated to continue Jackie Robinson's approach.”

https://achievement.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/2-GettyImages-81418934-scaled.jpg

https://achievement.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/wp-GettyImages-480014359_master.jpg

https://achievement.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/may0-049-mays-U1067504.jpg

Lot goin on here...

https://achievement.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/may0-045-mays-BE030755.jpg

https://achievement.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/may0-051-mays-U1196266INP.jpg

The first photo with Durocher was probably the one I saw second-most often in the days after. Weirdly, Mays had his back to the camera for the one I saw most often.

The two reporters in the locker room are absolutely killing me. These people existed! They weren’t just cartoons!

I was putting away some stuff today, including the NYT my friend bought for me the day after Mays died. Their front-page obit was written by helped-invent-rock-criticism Richard Goldstein.

Spring Training, '57--first photo I think I've seen of Mays' wife, Marguerite.

https://i.postimg.cc/dtwRMY50/mays.jpg

I extended a Crave subscription, so I watched the Nelson George documentary (Say Hey, Willie Mays) from a couple of years ago. It was okay--obviously interesting by default, but could have been much better (not as good as Reggie, I'd say). The section on Willie's reticence during the more militant consciousness of the late '60s was good. A lot of Barry Bonds--right at the end, the film (via a Mays speech) becomes advocacy for getting Bonds into the HOF. No mention of the Marichal-Roseboro incident, where Mays was central (in keeping some semblance of peace); only the briefest mention of Aaron, which felt like a major omission. Some good cutting-room stuff over the end credits; you find out that Mays met Ruth a couple of times, and--without saying so explicitly--that he didn't like him much!

When Mays and his wife Marguerite (above) went through a housing ordeal upon arriving in San Francisco--the all-white neighborhood where they wanted to buy a house didn't want to let them in--that eventually led to the dissolution of their marriage a few years later. (They did get the house with the help of an advocacy group.)