2010 ALCS - Yanquis vs Rangers

Definitely rooting TX...what the hell, I think they can do it.

rooting Tex. expecting Evol Empire in 4.

Home team disadvantage?

Home teams are 4-11 in the playoffs so far.

yanks in 6 but really hope TX can pull this one off, would be great for baseball to avoid having another NYY-PHI world series and scaring off small-market fans everywhere

Shasta stop parroting Joe Sheehan

oswaltexpert w/ a black-and-white avatar of Shasta holding an Oswalt bobblehead

That's Will Carroll -- n/m

If the Yanks' starters pitch like they did against Minnesota, I don't see how Texax can win even if Cliff Lee puts the fear of '86 Mike Scott into NY. If the series gets to a sixth game, then I don't see how Texas can't pitch Lee on short rest (regardless of whether they're up or down 3-2).

yanks in 6 but really hope TX can pull this one off, would be great for baseball to avoid having another NYY-PHI world series and scaring off small-market fans everywhere

― ciderpress, Wednesday, October 13, 2010 9:30 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark

poor ratings are great for baseball!

Think CJ Wilson is the most important player on the Rangers right now. If he blows his starts they doomed.

people taking cliff lee's infallibility for granted now yikes

Shasta stop parroting Joe Sheehan

― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, October 13, 2010 6:55 AM (3 hours ago)

LOLLLLL 80% of your posts on this board are some kind of BP staff/Neyer re-wank!

Honestly, while it's not the most groundbreaking stat that I've come to a conclusion about, I don't dare venture toward BP's twitterdom. *shudders*

"while it's not the most groundbreaking stat that I've come to a conclusion about"

What conclusion did you come to? Home field advantage isn't everything?

That it may in fact be a disadvantage!

baseball fan in ignoring sample size in the postseason shocka!

^^^OTM, fuck Joe Sheehan and all those other casual baseball pedestrian proles.^^^

hmm, thousands of historical baseball games bear out a ~5% advantage for the home team on average, but clearly this advantage has vanished in the postseason of 2010, based on the results of 15 games

i want to see a Josh Hamilton scale the wall into the crowd type defensive gem catch.. and then a beer gets dumped on him.

hahahaha

Hamilton must hear way too much sophisto patter from the cirrhotic Bleacher Things.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

so Coffee Joe is going w/ Hughes in Game 2 and saving Clutchy Pettitte to go vs Lee at home! Thoughts?

We should have a poll to see how many cheap ass homeruns get hit to RF in nu yankee stadium.

tim kurkjian suggested that it makes sense because hughes is better on the road.

rooting for Tejas but let's be real.

2006 ALDS New York Yankees vs. Detroit Tigers

haha *crosses fingers*

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

Yankees, Rangers payroll disparity largest in playoff history

The difference between Alex Rodriguez (Yankees' highest-paid player) and Michael Young (Rangers' highest-paid) is Mark Teixeira.

The difference between the Yankees payroll and the Rangers payroll is the Cubs payroll. The Cubs have the third-highest payroll in baseball.

Cliff Lee, C.J. Wilson, Colby Lewis and Tommy Hunter (all of Texas' playoff starting rotation) combined make less than Mariano Rivera – the Yankees' closer.

The Rangers could triple every current player's salary, sign Mark Teixeira away from the Yankees, and still have a lower payroll.

baseball is fucked up

omg

I can't believe that Cristian Guzman and Jorge Cantu are making more money than Vladi Guerrero.

+ The Rangers signed A-Rod to the stupidest contract in history, that is until the Yanquis one-upped them.

I thought it was basically accepted now that the Rangers paid fair market value for ARod (putting aside the fact that they bid against themselves and jacked up his price). Their problem wasn't in giving too much money to one player, it was giving a lot of money to one guy and not spending enough on supporting players and spending money stupidly on the supporting players that they did sign. You can't give 25M to one player, cap the team payroll at 70M or whatever it was and expect to have enough talent to be competitive, and blow 10M/yr of your limited funds on Chan Ho Park.

Even aside from A-Rod, didn't Texas have one of the higher payrolls in baseball during the Palmeiro-Gonzalez-I-Rod days? Or when that oil guy ran the team in the early '90s; weren't they safely in the upper half then? I didn't realize they'd fallen so low.

i've got a better fun fact: Yankee payroll here for Berkman, Wood, and Kearns in 2010 is 64 times that of Rangers impact rookie Justin Smoak.

these garbage social media articles are link bait for retards.

MMMMKay, bitching:

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/texas-rangers/post/_/id/4856234/nyy-broadcaster-cliff-lees-cap-illegal

Mussina 2

if only he could pull a dibble/strasburg next year

am liking the low strikes

Y DON'T ANDRUS TRY HARD ALL THE TIME, RONNIE?

I think I will turn the volume down a notch

yesssss

looks like Josh is feelin bettah

holy shit

:)

!_!

that was quite an 0-2 waste pitch

BB Sabathia amirite

let's all have a drink everytime Smoltz says "reset" (3 and counting)

Fuckouer working on getting benched before NY

RESET!

o man, cantu

aw

no fucking way

That looked safe to me.

will they show another angle?

help me figure it out in a lets make it happen kinda way

well, he was safe

that was a perfect time for that commercial -- all of our anger, channeled

well, he was out

Out! Nice angle!

Good call. Bad slide

yea tbs put some more production $ into this i think

Wow, nice tag, nice call.

if the ump is right, the director has been instructed to show it 5x

dont particularly cantu batting lower than frenchy & treanor

particularly *understand

elvis is everywhere

ha, dammit i was just gonna post that!

congrats WmC you share a wavelength w/ ILX's fave sage

O_O

College Radio Nerds of a Certain Age

MLB spot officially trashes Don Larsen

http://www.louielouie.net/pix-2006/mojo-returns.jpg

i love how the announcers managed to turn the fact that vladdy will swing at any pitch to "he has to be one of the hardest batters to pitch to"

i mean this was DIRECTLY after vladdy swung on a 0-0 pitch that bounced in front of his feet

same for Fuckoueur, ja

KEEP IT UP

hate rooting against cc but go rangs

otm

is Joba gonna come in for 3 innings?

innings eater

Rangers didn't really hit the ball hard that inning but whatev GO RANGS

Four innings, 93 pitches

CAPITAN CLUTCH STRIKES AGAIN

that was a pretty 4-6-3

i would like to point out that i was otm etc

J0rdan S. wrote this on thread your 2010 postseason schedule on board I Love Baseball on Sep 29, 2010

c.j. wilson > whoever the twins are offering up aside from liriano

quite the challop

ok now joba--here is a guy u can root against

well everyone in the thread disagreed w/ me!

and i was saying that cj wilson is dope

@jonahkeri
Elvis Andrus hit zero home runs with a .036 ISO this year. Any pitcher who walks him should, to put it politely, be shot.

i always thought it was just neftali feliz and salty for the 1 year Braves Teix rental. had no idea it was the two of them plus Andrus. hindsight is 20/20 but damn.

I see that George W is planning to catch the entire game in person ... not the kind of guy who gets a couple of innings of face time and then leaves, he STAYS THE COURSE

Whoa, was that Gaylord Perry in the stands during GBA?

Brutal lip synching job right there.

ayyyyy capn

someone ring neftali

alright how bout you throw a strike

yeeeeaaaaaooooooowww

o ley do it

most valuable centaur

clay rapada? this isn't going to end well

The Rangers got complacent. Why did Wilson come out for the eighth?

this has been epically bad bullpen management

Totally predictable comeback.

RIP this series

nothing would top a shot of a disapointed gwb

this is annoying.

i'm glad he's okay going down w/ derek holland as opposed darren o day, who's his best reliever

well at least marcus thames is up

:D :D

ban ron washington

lmao nolan ryan

a-rod should've taken a shit on home plate

children have been conceived and born during this half inning

and still no outs

http://c0013513.cdn1.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/x2_308c69b

bahahahaha

so classic

jesus christ alive

hahahahahahahahhahahahahhahahaha

What a dumbass.

Ball 6?

that outside corner is fucking huge for this ump

fucking christ what happened while i was watching a season 3 mad men

rangers pooped in their pants

If the Rangers can just pull off bunting into a double play in the 9th then I think they'll have blown this game in every possible way there is to blow a game.

Well, we can always look forward to Burnett's Game 4 start.

really with the bunting?

Re: the bunting, I think the Yankees are just fucking with them now.

a mighty lol

The Wood pickoff of Kinsler: since start of 2009, with Indians and Yanks, opponents were 19 for 19 stealing on Wood. And no pickoffs.

ron washington is just a bad manager

i hope he enjoyed julio borbon's pitch hit at bat with 2 outs and none on instead of being able to pinch run him here

you are seriously not about to sac bunt

Rivera vs Hamilton with the game on the line ...

or not

...

yanks kind of got str8edged in the beginning but then ron wash went all

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cP0wsET8__Y

if only a-rod had tagged out moreland for the third out

mercifully, I fell asleep on this

can't believe the Yanks won that game

RIP Texas

if only if only

little too early for RIPs

yeah, fuck off

will they really come back from that vs. New York

i hope i'm wrong but

still hoping the Rangers can do some damage, so yeah i take back that RIP

rip rangers there's no way they're winning this

that's a reverse jinx for all yall know

Feliz must have really shit the bed, huh?

well everyone in the thread disagreed w/ me!

and i was saying that cj wilson is dope

I wasn't disagreeing -- gushing about the excellence of Brian Duensing or whatever. I think I mentioned that Wilson had been shaky lately (and cited the IP spike as a possible factor), which was true.

http://nbchardballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/nolan-ryan-george-bush-alcs-game-1-e1287200125618.jpghttp://nbchardballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/nolan-ryan-george-bush-alcs-game-1-e1287200125618.jpg
http://nbchardballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/nolan-ryan-george-bush-alcs-game-1-e1287200125618.jpghttp://nbchardballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/nolan-ryan-george-bush-alcs-game-1-e1287200125618.jpg

@Joe Sheehan
This never would have happened if Neftali Feliz were still alive.

Andy K and Joe S OTM. How the hell do you use so many relievers in a 6-5 game but not find a way to get your closer into the game?

Nolan? which way to the gun show?

I read that the TBS play-by-play dildo credited Gardner's unnecessary slide into first for inspiring the rally

Kahrl:

"As any of you who committed Bill James to memory back in the day remember from when he was writing about the outcome of the '85 World Series (and enjoying it more than a little, because the man's joy in fandom shone through), in crediting Whitey Herzog the benefit and hazard of his virtues in using relievers aggressively, James noted that if you use enough pitchers in a game, you're bound to run into somebody who doesn't have it.

How, then, do you evaluate Ron Washington's eighth-inning adventure? What meaning does that sort of prim, proper, and usually true statement have when you're looking at a skipper who just ran through four different relievers—three of them left-handed, coming after a left-handed starter—in the space of five batters? That seems like a selection issue, perhaps not all of it Washington's fault, except insofar as these are the guys he picked, and they're all presumably ready and rested..."

cj wilson was a screenwriting major?!

I read that the TBS play-by-play dildo credited Gardner's unnecessary slide into first for inspiring the rally

― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Saturday, October 16, 2010 9:12 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

if he didn't slide he would ahve been in line to be tagged, so... brett gardner did the right thing, tbh

THAT'S LOGISTICS

claw play

antler play

all this antler talk makes me think of

Terence McDonagh: Elk? Yeah? I was watching TV - the game, right? Renaldo Hayes? He got tossed the ball and he was running with it, he was running running running. He jumped over three linebackers in mid-air. He sprouted antlers! Like a gazelle? Like an elk? He landed again - he ran ran ran - He scored a touch-down!

What's with the strike zone tonight?

If Cano had tagged Hamilton then the inning would have been over without the run scoring!

^^^^

as bad as last night? xxp

Thought the same. Even after replay.

tot in favor of NYY losing this series on bad calls btw

"one for Tarasco"

as bad as last night? xxp

It wasn't so bad last night imo. I thought Hughes got jobbed out of a couple of strike calls, but the camera angle is really off-centre on this broadcast so it might be hard to tell.

somewhere a NY Post editor is dying to use "Who's Your Vladdy?" on a back cover.

Colby Lewis is biting his lip more than Bill Clinton

Not sure I want to turn this on after last night's game.

DAVID MURPHY

bomb

will be fascinating today to see if/when Washington goes to Neftali

Did Washington comment on not using Feliz yesterday?

Was he saving him for extra innings after the inevitable Texas comeback or something?

pour it on i dont feel good til they hit a double digit lead

yes. It was entirely in the groupthink manager lockstep, there's no reason to expect anything else.

“No. He’s never done anything like that. I wouldn’t do that. I had the people I wanted in the game. They didn’t get it done. It happens.”

Managers would rather lose the game in the prescribed way than trying to win it by bucking convention.

btw more on that Washington quote:

That would be a fine retort if it was even remotely true. Fact is, it’s not. While none of them were “save situations,” Feliz has been used for six outs three times this season, including an extra inning win against these very same Yankees back on August 10. He has been asked to get at least four outs three other times. This season he has been groomed for short work out of the bullpen, but last season, eight of his 20 appearances were two innings or more.

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/10/16/why-didnt-ron-washington-bring-in-neftali-feliz-in-the-eighth-inning/

Yeah, he didn't even let him pitch in the top of the ninth with his team down a run -- he was willing to give up more runs than get "blamed" for using his closer in a non-save situation.

xpost

I also love the argument "he's never done anything like that" is an excuse for not bringing him in ... because apparently Rapada and O'Day had already done that a million times.

ej <3s brett gardner

brett gardner is soon to be the announcers' eckstein

at least he's actually good

i love consecutive-game streaks that are interrupted by 11 months

uh did that really hit grandy?

A lot of Yankee hitters have been jawing with the home plate ump about the strike zone.

i wonder if ernie knew that was an infield fly rule call

The announcers keep talking about how ARod isn't getting booed in Texas ... I don't know, it's been seven years and the entire Rangers team (incl. ownership) has turned over. Do the Rangers and their fans still hold a grudge or something?

frenchy did not cheer when murphy hit that double

benj

What is the chant they had going 2 minutes ago? was a lot longer than "Yankees suck."

too early -- how will they blow this

bring in Neftali for 6

lol dirk

f'n cano

lol

Mr. Francoeur couldn’t contain his delusions of grandeur when it came to the money he might command on the open market.

He isn’t eligible for free agency until after next season, but during a conversation before a game in Philadelphia, he referenced Jayson Werth, Ryan Howard and Joe Mauer—three of baseball’s elite players—in talking about the factors that might affect where he played in the years to come.

http://www.tedquarters.net/2010/10/16/frenchy-tracker-update-2/

see what happens when you don't bunt

we're totally gonna get a 10-minute dinner break before the next game

Every day Joba

are we in the Darren Oliver Safety Zone yet?

who spells Young for defense?

that was a blast

K RAPADA

i'm terrified of what's going to happen when i have to leave my house in 20 minutes.

FLOD

http://www.bullfrogsunblock.com/

somewhere steve avery is thinking "why'd you have to tell everyone how sweaty i am?"

FFS three hours to get to the seventh inning stretch in a 7-2 game?

good work, yahoo

Base Running
SB - E Andrus 2 (2, 3rd base off P Hughes/J Posada, 4th base off P Hughes/J Posada), J Hamilton (2, 2nd base off P Hughes/J Posada).

lol 4th base

going to get dinner, dont blow this

FINISH HIM dude ... Halladay's warming up

Perfect timing there.

So it's a best of five series now, with Cliff Lee pitching in two of those five games. Not bad for the Rangers.

They got a bit lucky tonight though, the Yankees had a ton of baserunners but couldn't score.

@joesheehan
Gotta give it up for Wash. He knew he'd need Feliz to throw 40 pitches protecting a five-run lead tonight. My bad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILui7W41M60

i banged his pot once

(EASY)

JOSH

never change, yankee stadium

There are yr 2 runs, Cliff

lol, they should have kept IBB-ng like in game 2

Francoeur kept his apartment in midtown Manhattan so he stayed at home last night.

Jeter throws from the hole like Groucho Marx singing "Lydia the Tattooed Lady" when he was 80.

Officer Gardner igniting his teammates with an inning-ending head-first slide into first base.

are the ppl who think sliding into first is faster the same ones who know Obama is Muslim?

Nice at bat by Swisher. Cliff Lee was looking mortal for a minute there.

this guy is kind of on another planet

A walk????

RIP Cliff Lee

He just went to the hat again!

well no World Series perfect game tonight

Lee just sawed through Posada's bat... bloop broken bat dying quail flar is the only way you can get a hit.

Morbs, did you miss the BB?

the camera angle really made it look like that 1 was getting out too

Morbs, did you miss the BB?

No, I was mocking Halladay = Larsen, einstein.

hey Teix it's not April.

they seriously should've done a squeeze there -- only way they were gonna score

yeah you really legged that one out antler Frenchy :/

Morbs, did you miss the BB?

No, I was mocking Halladay = Larsen, einstein.

― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Monday, October 18, 2010 6:59 PM (18 minutes ago)

Oh Morbius, your superlative sense of humor evades me once again...

Lee has gotta go 8 tonight

Molina is ridiculously slow, disgusting. Get a hip replacement dawg.

cant see how you take lee out of this game unless they add a few runs or he looks anything less than robotic & untouchable

109 pitches for Lee through seven ... can he get the CG?

Lee's career high: 124 pitches

Well that was fast. 13-pitch inning, he's up to 122. 13 K's now. No sign at all that he's tiring and couldn't come back for the 9th.

bud selig should intervene if lees not out there for the 9th

will his game score be higher than Lincecum's vs Braves?

This is a guy who had back trouble a couple months ago -- gotta think about Neftali for the 9th. Game 7 would be Saturday, right?

ya, i would not leave him in.

taking him out makes the %ages youre in a game 7 higher imo

Neftali can't protect a 2-run lead?

@joesheehan
If I may be a fan for a moment...the number of empty seats around this place right now is embarrassing.

bud selig should intervene if lees not out there for the 9th

― johnny crunch, Monday, October 18, 2010 9:48 PM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark

^^

neftali had his issues against the yankees this year but his on the road & in the second half this year he was basically untouchable

okay nevermind, no reason for cliff to come out once borbon scores

Should Rivera have pitched the 9th for the Yanks?

Borbon is really, really fast.

NO Jordan, now the lead is that much safer. Save some bullets for a Game 7, take him out.

neftali in the second half

1.42 ERA, 0.66 WHIP, .148 BAA

neftali on the road (over the whole year)

1.27 ERA, 0.56 WHIP, .096 BAA

btw morbs

okay nevermind, no reason for cliff to come out once borbon scores

― truly blunted rhyme fiend (J0rdan S.), Monday, October 18, 2010 10:00 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest

How good is the Rangers closer? You would have to think Washington might be gun shy after the bullpen blew game 1.

I haven't watched pretty much any AL baseball this year, so I don't know either club at all.

this is all lovely

It's a shame that they aren't up 3-0

darren oliver may be able to protect this lead now

oic. "come out" can mean "of the game" or "to pitch."

precision!

xxxxp

WITNESS THE WRATH OF AJ BURNETT

Neftali can't protect a 2-run lead?

― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Monday, October 18, 2010 9:54 PM (13 minutes ago)

no, technically he now no longer can.

t's a shame that they aren't up 3-0

― macaroni rascal (polyphonic), Monday, October 18, 2010 10:06 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark

lol morbs, i changed my mind after the rangers scored two more runs!! i think that's p reasonable

could watch this all nite tbqh

Rick Sutcliffe is saying that it's now the perfect time to bring Feliz into the game, because with a 6-run lead you can "ease him into the series and hope he can be a factor later on." Feliz pitched two days ago with a 5-run lead, but whatever, who has time to argue.

Make that a 7-run lead.

yanks are gonna offer lee an obscene amt of $ this off season

why, what gives you such an idear

LOL there are like 500 people left in Yankee Stadium.

How to spend $213 Million and Only Have One Effective Starting Pitcher and Reliever: A New Tell-All Book by Brian Cashman

sweet.

hey lets actually warm up a reliever!

I think using Feliz here is kind of insane too.

yea im not in favor of this

agreed.

i agree

the "gotta get him acclimated!" argument is really stupid as well

this isn't the new debutante season

Ron Washington is putting on a reverse-clinic.

only low-leverage situations for Neftali

Ron Washington is putting on a reverse-clinic.

― macaroni rascal (polyphonic), Monday, October 18, 2010 10:27 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark

He may be the dumbest mgr to win a pennant since Bob Brenly

cliff lee is a literal pimp

― ('_') (omar little), Tuesday, October 12, 2010 7:38 PM (6 days ago) Bookmark

i never paid close attention to Washington before this series - but i was thinking he must have had more common sense during the season for the Rangers to have done as well as they did.

http://cbsnewyork.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/lee-gardner.jpg?w=420

Apparently Rivera has never pitched on three consecutive days.

http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/5887/should-girardi-have-used-mo-in-game-3

http://www.baseballanalytics.org/storage/post-images/Cliff-Lee-ALCS3-strike-zone.png?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1287493669481

cliffy in game 3

That looks like one of those hurricane doppler things.

jeez - pitching to two guys at once no less!

Those guys can't cover the outside half of the plate.

no matter what happens tonight, tommy hunter made sure that his beard was RIGHT

i would love to hear vin scully tell the story of tommy hunter's childhood as a champion judo competitor

Maier part II!

oh no jeff maier 2, only fatter & older

IN NEEEEEWWWWWW YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRKKKKKKK

LOL

LOL WTF that's not a reviewable play according to MLB rules

why does the mlb allow fans to get that close to the wall? what is the point? every stadium should have a shrubbery moat imo

how the fuck is tim reynolds supposed to see anything???

the gif of that kids reaction is gonna be money

that ball was in play fwiw

not that one, but the one before

review canos one while ur at it!

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

lol that's a foul ball!

why the fucking fuck do they have outfield umpires??

why the fucking fuck did ron washington not through a fit on the fan interference

no coke :(

pretty sure the fan w/ the sideways hat is asher roth

it's the PLAYOFFS, GET RON SUM BLOW IMO

ron washington is too important to the team to get tossed in the second inning

Barbed and electric wire between walls and fans at Yankee Stadium, please.

Sacrifice bunting in the 3rd inning against a shitty pitcher who just surrendered a walk, HBP, and WP -- clearly, Ron Washington is a tactical genius.

yeah and it should be noted that moreland had a solid walk rate too

awesome

tough break for AJ, he was only illegally afforded a one run lead

I can't Tommy Hunter seriously with that beard.

every stadium should have a shrubbery moat imo

This is not techically a stadium, it's "a five-star hotel with a ballfield in the middle" (NYY CEO Lonn Trost).

attended by the type of people that would wipe their asses with the bath towels

well in the bleachers yah

damn cant believe he let him wear that 0-2

Loving Smoltz

Texas will need six innings from their bullpen -- good thing Neftali Feliz was broken in while protecting those eight run leads.

Can't believe I'm only noticing the resemblance now:

http://www.dallassportsfans.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/ron.jpg

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/000/230/935/TeddyLong_display_image.jpg?1274287058

tommy hunter's fastball was v. v. straight

it appears that A-Rod doesn't know the fan-interference rules, the way he was squealing.

maier then bartman invoked

incredible

with today's ease of tracking people via social media that fat guido would have been dead before he reached his front door had MVP Hamilton blown it wide open.

I think 80% of the brickheads who sit on field level at NYS would also go for the ball, pennant be damned.

of course it's a hitless Yankee who goes down.

still great

think we need a video review on that hamstring play -- i elect Nelson Cruz for reinjury if the umps call it.

Buster who?

el oh el

LOL the boos for AJ

AAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYJAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYY

heh heh heh

What a terrible job of managing for both teams.

nice to see some tejanos celebrating in the stands

what event is craig sager dressed for

his funeral if he'd died in 1975

if you rearrange the letters of Boone Logan's name and add a G and a Y you get LOOGY

:/

lol @ this yankee reliever guy they keep going to, had no idea their bullpen was so weak.

or just add a Y

Only person who could get there was Cano with his speed

RON DARLING IS TEH RACISTES

now i know this is something that could be highly changeable but ron darling is seriously the worst baseball color guy

wait who was that who just brutalized god bless america?

The EXTENDED GBA makes its comeback. It's like Yankees are pulling out all the stops to turn their fortunes around.

That was Patrick Wilson (Broadway's Oklahoma!, the HBO film of Angels in America, Little Children). I tuned away since he was wearing clothes.

Coulda been a sweep if Wash hadn't fuct up Game 1.

thx--my gf and i were pretty horrified by his singing tbh

cashman is now looking up if derek holland is a free agent

@jay_jaffe
On a positive note, wow, Cervelli really did a bang up job handing the pitchers tonight, didn't he? Fucking useless waste of organs.

the booth keeps referencing CROOKED NUMBERS is that behind the baseball prossectus paywall or was it a fangraphs piece?

bang up job by derek holland

I don't understand this mentality of paying 500 bucks for field level playoff tickets and then leaving in the 7th inning of a 7-3 game.

Like owners, like fans?

CLIFF LEE = WARRIOR
CC SABATHIA = THE YANKEE'S HORSE

i smell a 2011 thread title

sidearming relievers are such garbage

Excellent generalization.

Three walks, one for each pitcher! Can Oliver make it four for four? Stay tuned, it's overmanaging at its best!!

sry--i look at all those dudes who are completely unable to throw strikes and i get a little emotional

this is literally incredible

lol they're so much more furious about swisher's pant leg than the other bad calls in the game

darren oliver!

oliver has been shaky of late but is a pretty good reliever the last 5 or so years

it is ridic that it looks like a game in April w/ all the empty seats

okay this is just the fucking best now

vladdy with the infield hit!!

the only way i could love this more is if ken rosenthal breaks in to announce that they're gonna have to amputate tex's leg

it is ridic that it looks like a game in April w/ all the empty seats

― johnny crunch, Tuesday, October 19, 2010 11:54 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

i've never understood why they don't invest in an army of unemployed actors to work as seat fillers.

Girardi's going down with his very best relievers here.

lol yes

LOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLL

hahahahahaha

LOL x 10

blimey

lmao

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o180/ebs0136/wallypissingonyankeessign.gif

best shit ever

I'm sure Ron Washington will still be giving the bunt signal in the second inning tomorrow.

shot of Nolan Ryan cackling ftw

Thank you for showing the exodus, TBS.

crooked numbers for everybody!

really nice for girardi to let the rangers get a jump on game 5 batting practice amirite?

This never would have happened if George Steinbrenner were still alive.

On second thought, it would have happened, and would have been even more hilarious.

SI_JonHeyman if josh hamilton played home games at yankee stadium (and could last a full season), hed hit 60 home runs

^^otm

he plays in texas which is about the same?

late to this party 'cause I was at work but this is a great, great day

He gets a heat inversion from that stadium. xp

Has there ever been a study of heat-related park effects?

as much of a hitter's park as texas is, it doesn't have a right field fence that is 318 feet

has some law been passed under which you can only say 'postseason' and never 'playoffs'?

this was an unexpected surprise, nice.

okay josh hamilton just described bengie molina's homer as "a glass case of emotions"

Teixiera said he heard his hamstring "pop"

RIP

it will prob help the yanks to have a player playing at least at replacement level there at first

i regret, so much, missing this game.

Yankees first baseman Mark Teixeira left Game 4 of the ALCS in the fifth inning with a right hamstring injury, and his season is over.

Teixeira said following Tuesday's loss that doctors told him he had suffered a Grade 2 hamstring strain and is finished for the season. The Yankees will recall rookie Eduardo Nunez in time for Game 5, making Teixeira ineligible to return for the World Series, but he wouldn't have been healthy enough anyway. A Grade 2 -- or, moderate -- strain typically sidelines players for six to eight weeks.

http://mlb.fanhouse.com/2010/10/19/mark-teixeira-leaves-alcs-game-4-with-apparent-hamstring-injury/?synd=1

hbryant42 Howard Bryant
It is hilarious how the $200 million Yankees play the theme to Rocky whenever they're losing. They relate well to the underdog...

well, Rocky loses.

lol

Teixeira is Burgess Meredith dying

Neter on roster move:

"When people say Derek Jeter has to play shortstop for the Yankees (forever, maybe!) because there's nobody else who can, they're talking about Eduardo Nunez."

this is what i heard girardi say re: a.j. "take away that 1 pitch and kid chewed a heckuva chalupa out there"

as much of a hitter's park as texas is, it doesn't have a right field fence that is 318 feet

― truly blunted rhyme fiend (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, October 20, 2010 6:18 AM (7 hours ago) Bookmark

It's not so much the short porch in right, it's the wind tunnel that blows out to right-centre in that park. If Johnny Damon could hit 24 homers in Yankee Stadium last year (half of those would have been doubles to the gap in any other park) then Hamilton could easily top 50.

Damon hit 17 at YS last year (I know this only because he hit seven IN Detroit this year, and was curious about the massive difference), but yeah, the point stands IMO.

Yeah, I was thinking of his season total, not how many he hit in YS. The first time I saw nu-YS on TV, I was watching a Jays-Yanks game last year and Damon homered to right-centre and I just couldn't believe the ball went out. Off the bat I was sure it was a double to the gap. Anyway, the memory of that game really sticks with me for some reason.

allegedly the wind effect was less this year because the Old Baseball Cathedral had been razed? That was a theory.

<img src="http://30fps.mocksession.com/YANKEEDOUCHE.gif"; class="noborder"></img><br /> how has no one posted this tableau vivant of asshattery yet?

http://30fps.mocksession.com/YANKEEDOUCHE.gif

No? Ugh.

The gent in the WS sweatshirt is the real star here.

kill every new yorker

http://30fps.mocksession.com/NOLANLOL.gif

the sweatshirt guy is infused with the power of owning 40 garbage trucks

hahaha, somebody's going to figure out how to hit Ryan with a BP pitch someday before he's done owning the Rangers.

when did nolan ryan become hubert humphrey?

J**** T******** The Yankees have officially taken the name "Amazin's" away from the Mets... :)
October 15 at 9:04pm via Facebook for Android

M*** G******* Texas will never recover from that loss.
October 16 at 7:04am · Like

D** E**** Looking forward to the rematch, my friend. This time, that trophy's coming back to Philly!
October 16 at 11:50am · Like

that yankee gif hurts my heart.

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/sp/getty/5a/fullj.7cb7b85010d79375a2304a2b3b42984e/7cb7b85010d79375a2304a2b3b42984e-getty-104444592mh040_texas_ranger.jpg

NEW YORK - OCTOBER 18: Grim LeRogue is restrained by security after running onto the field in Game Three of the ALCS between the New York Yankees and the Texas Rangers during the 2010 MLB Playoffs at Yankee Stadium on October 18, 2010 in the Bronx borough of New York City. According reports, LeRogue is obsessed with about New York Yankees third baseman Alex Rodriguez's(notes) relationship with actress Cameron Diaz. (Photo by Jim McIsaac/Getty Images)

Has to be up there with the Rick Monday US flag shot.

the Centaur forever

Grim LeRogue

http://www.myspace.com/grimlerogue

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecDmM5qNJGA

Joelsherman1
Can't ever remember Yankee Stadium being this empty/dead 25 minutes b4 1st pitch. Know it is midweek day gm, but still ALCS. #quiet

Christina Kahrl
Wahoo, here I am, up above the RF foul pole, finally able to see the Conan blimp in daylight, just like I always dreamed of, growing up

go rangers! no games on tv, can't get local radio feed, stuck w/espn radio. but nothing beats listening to your hometown team on verge of going to w.s. for first time ever while ostensibly working

ernie is making ron washington sound like a baseball savant

i haven't been paying much attention so sorry if i'm repeating what others have already said but dude, lots of empty seats behind homeplate in the "postseason"? WHAT?? pay a fucking usher, do something

and now Frenchy makes an impact

oh for the love of god

remember, Fuckoeur's strong points are clubhouse and deeeefense

yeah except that throw wasn't his fault, morbs -- it was offline in a quite mundane fashion, michael young is an idiot for not stepping off the base to field if cleanly

well i am only watching the play-by-play updates

maybe Texas shd play Toby Harrah at 3b

i may not hafta rush home for rest of this eh

What is the point of leaving Wilson in here? 4 (3?) run deficit and you're out.

oh lord

that looked legit painful

yea he fucked himself up

it's like he was on water skis

awesome, let's pick off the 1Bs one at a time

has anyone anywhere heard of michael kirkman

What is the point of leaving Wilson in here? 4 (3?) run deficit and you're out.

bullpen up now, but I'm wondering if Washington was thinking "well we might not win this, why waste all my relievers so early?"

that is definitely part of it, also his long man pitched 4 innings last night because the starter also only went four innings

i'll always remember where i was when brett gardner slid into first

matt traenor thinks that the rent is too damn high

see, this is what happened in the first game, but reversed. oh shit was that a jinx??

Derek Jeter has worked this full count like no one else in the history of full count.

heard a couple Miller-Morgan innings on the way home. What's the lede? Inefficient Texas offense?

cc was pretty lucky tonight, he did not pitch very well.

@joe_sheehan
There are fewer singles on EHarmony than between Jeter and A-Rod.

Pretty boring game, I see. After the Yankees were up 5-0 partly thanks to the Rangers' Little League-style defense, I decided to take a nap before the Phillies-Giants game.

Mike Royko (Beyond): Joe Giradi, Kerry Wood, Sergio Mitre. The yankees were doomed from the start. It takes more than 200 million to overcome the ex-cub factor!

Steven Goldman: Well, Kerry Wood has been excellent for the Yankees, but more seriously, I was confused at the start about putting both Mitre and Dustin Moseley on the roster. It's a bit like a military staff meeting before a big battle, and the chief of ordinance says, "Well, we've equipped everyone with guns, knives, hand grenades... We've got cannons, we've got shells..." and the general-in-chief says, "Be sure to pack the white flags." Why do you need two blow-out pitchers in a series in which you can never stop playing for a comeback. You can spare the staff in the regular season, but if you do it in the postseason, you're going to GO HOME. I just don't get it.

pgammo
Fox praying for Yanks so Cablevision will have to back down.

Fox is always praying for Yanks whats new gammo

Eric Seidman, supplementing projection of TEX as 54% likely winner tonight:

"As far as matchups go, Hughes' ability to retire Vladimir Guerrero will loom large, and the platoon-split babies like Jeff Francoeur and Jorge Cantu will play a big role when all is said and done. On the Yankees side, I really like Nick Swisher and Curtis Granderson against Lewis. The Yankees hitters will need to show patience and force Lewis to throw a lot of pitches, as while he is sneakily effective at missing bats, he isn’t a dominant strikeout pitcher like a Tim Lincecum. PECOTA sees the Rangers eeking out a win, and my Seidjection agrees. Rangers win and advance to the World Series."

Seidjection

Looks like rain... not sure if this is gonna happen?

okay now the tarps are coming off...

hbryant42 Howard Bryant
Fans chanting "you took steroids" to A-Rod after cheering a pregame montage featuring Juan Gonzalez, Pudge Rodriguez and Rafael Palmeiro.

^^^^ hahaha

Granderson fucked up his slide on that steal attempt, he should have been safe by a mile.

bb, why wren't you upset about Goldman analyzing the Taco Bell commercial in his chat?

wtf productive outs in the 1st inning? get on base

xpost I skipped that paragraph completely. Didn't care.

fucking hideous K call

@bruce_arthur
The great thing about this game is that no matter what happens, future Texas schoolbooks will record it as a Rangers win.

first 4 innings played in 1:17. Practically a "postseason" record.

BOOOOOOOO

PAGING UMPIRE-IN-THE-SKY

Keep this game moving.

REPLAY PLZ

Except that the Yankees probably cost themselves a run -- Posada's double could have scored two!

Although I guess you have to take the sure run if you have the chance.

FLOD

cya phil

VLAD IMPALES

I can't believe Girardi keeps IBB'ing people, considering it's not the first time it's bit him in the ass in this series. Then again, I can believe it, considering how badly he managed during this and last year's postseason.

I would have walked Hamilton too...all credit to Guerrero.

Game 1 WS, Cliff Lee vs ????

nellie is srsly the best

xp why would you put another runner on for one of the best contact hitters in baseball history?

FUCKING. BOMB.

exactly -- and it's not like Hughes had been lights-out up until that point, he was one or two big hits away from being pulled in the 3rd, 4th, and 5th. There was no reason to think he'd have a great shot at retiring Vladi.

xpost

Because Hamilton's lefthanded and has four home runs this postseason? I mean, I know who Guerrero is, but it seems like an easy call to me (and an even easier second-guess)...anyway, hopefully it's all academic now.

Coffee Joe did not have a good inning

What is Girardi thinking:bringing his worst pitcher in when the entire season is on the line?

has Wash got Feliz warming yet?

Gorman's "strike zone":

http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfxVB/zoneTrack.php?month=10&day=22&year=2010&game=gid_2010_10_22_nyamlb_texmlb_1/&prevDate=1022

'it's almost like you have a bucket of outs behind the mound, and you're trying to fill that bucket'

the binder is all-knowing

What is Girardi thinking:bringing his worst pitcher in when the entire season is on the line?

― i love you but i have chosen snarkness (Steve Shasta), Saturday, October 23, 2010 4:09 AM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark

And this. At least he went to Wood in the 6th.

The guy never even BITES the chalupa before Mo takes over!!!! Doesn't that bother anyoen else?

For what it's worth, going into the 5th inning tonight, Hamilton in his career was 2 for 4 vs. Hughes, with a double and two walks; Guerrero was 1 for 7, with no walks and no extra-base hits. Small sample, I know. But still.

Miss Texas: worst version of GBA this postseason.

'it's almost like you have a bucket of outs behind the mound, and you're trying to fill that bucket'

― mookieproof, Friday, October 22, 2010 9:16 PM (20 minutes ago) Bookmark

it puts the outs in the basket or else it gets the hose

Smoltz has been so good in this series -- perfectly happy to say nothing for 10 minutes and then drop the science on Wood.

princess tamtamm: once you order a mega chalupa you need to be relieved b4 even biting

I wonder if Washington with ease Neftali Feliz into the series in the ninth.

"Do you automatically go to Feliz in the 9th?" Wow, that's dumb.

I wish I knew someone in Texas I could e-mail congratulations to. I think I'll try to track down Jeff Burroughs or David Clyde on Facebook.

WAS THAT FREE-AGENT-TO-BE DEREK JETER'S LAST AT BAT AS A YANQUI

well ron is coked up

they need 2 stop showing that ron washington shimmy dance ha xp

I can hear Steinbrenner bitching to Hitler and Jeffrey Dahmer right about now

No, Steinbrenner is trying to hire Billy Martin to manage the team next year.

Dahmer converted remember

I can't see that it will matter, but I don't understand bringing in Feliz. (I'll say that now rather than second-guess.)

give him some confidence before the next series. he needs it

sad cc

past his bedtime

RANGS

http://imgur.com/z0Ipk.gif

pennant fever!

xpost hahahaaaaaaa

HOLY SH*T

dope as fuck

such a likeable team

revive?
http://www.ilxor.com/ILX/ThreadSelectedControllerServlet?boardid=53&threadid=921

ron washington . . . rebuilt his house . . . rebuilt his coke-addled life . . .

I can't see that it will matter, but I don't understand bringing in Feliz. (I'll say that now rather than second-guess.)

The WS doesn't start for another five days.

CONGRATS RANGS

I could see these guys winning the WS. It's amazing what's possible WITH A LITTLE RUN SUPPORT.

I really couldn't have pictured us being on the verge of a Rangers/Giants WS. My god.. those crazy sons of bitches really did it...

So refreshing to watch the Yankees get so thoroughly humiliated in the postseason for once.

ginger ale bat is sort of a watershed moment

what would be the equivalent for ron washington? they all start snorting pixie stix?

plz tell me at least Dubya isnt there tonight

no reported sightings

Yeah, I guess you've gotta keep Feliz sharp. It just seemed like an unnecessary risk to me: your starter's dominating, you've got a five-run lead, and if Feliz isn't sharp and gives up a couple of quick runs, now you've got a game--and you can't go to Feliz because he's already out there. Moot point.

Lee...Lincecum!

I will root for Giants over these guys, but them over PHI even if the Phillies dont have any war criminals w/ box seats.

i wonder who the "honorary prez" of the NL is.

OK, this is very Texas. I hope Oakland beats their asses next year.

jon daniels looks like he should be sitting at a hold'em table

lol at him saying that the scouts "killed it"

OK, this is very Texas. I hope Oakland beats their asses next year.

― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Friday, October 22, 2010 10:22 PM (55 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

you. root. for. the. mets.

haaaaaa

"our staff is swagged the fuck out"

lool

Daniels is from Queens I think?

(I dont know what that means, u Fla brat)

lmao @ the cheer for christ

I hope you atheist messageboarders are happy w/ that ovation for Jesus

congrats Rangers for taking down the evil empire.

thats why Jesus was stealing signs for them

Why would a cheer for our savior bother anyone? Aww, Josh. This is cute!

cuz the Lord doesnt care u won a ballgame

My new metric: VORM (Value Over Replacement Messiah).

i like life

A week from now, over Arlington:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/aa/BUSHJACKET.jpg/250px-BUSHJACKET.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/aa/BUSHJACKET.jpg/250px-BUSHJACKET.jpg

If the Giants win, it'll be a tough decision who to root for. Obv if the Phils win I hope Texas grinds them into babyfood.

or into Vlad's mom's meatballs

Now other managers are going to try to start getting an edge with cocaine.

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/9171/yankeesejection2zv0.jpg

http://sportsnickel.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/yankee_fan.jpg

ah the universal chant

a motto we can all get behind

unlike this crap on the politics thread

this is nice news to come home to!

Rangers must feel good about something since they're still funding A-Rod (right?), maybe they'll sign JoHam to a 15 year $300M deal.

Will be rooting for the Giants if they can get it done, but I'm not holding out a lot of hope, 'cuz goddamn is that offense terrible.

maybe sager will get electrocuted?

will be rooting for giants because that means I actually get to see WS games in town (albeit for many hundreds of $$$).

also, don't think TX still funding A-Rod. ranger payroll only 50-something mil, which means DYNASTY!!!

$500 for nosebleeds on stubhub right now - if it's the Giants, my dad and I might figure out a way to do it.

When A-Rod opted out of his contract a few years back that let the Rangers off the hook for a big chunk of what they were paying him via the Yankees, but there's still some money going to him AFAIK

According to Cot's BB Contracts, TX is wrapping up their involvement with him this year.

# Texas obligated to fund $9M as part of deferred compensation provision in previous contract (to be paid with interest in $3M increments in 2008, 2009 & 2010)

what a contract!

and what a way to hammer the final nail on that quarter billion dolla contract... oof.

fuck

hey steve shasta, if SF makes it, we should talk tix

Haha, you need to talk to BeeOK or Lee (ILX's resident Giants fans). I just live here!

careful Dom

http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/4245/mibx.jpg

::drinks sanskrit's tears::

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/al/rangers/2010-10-25-cliff-lee-rangers_N.htm

Perhaps the Rangers' greatest sales pitch simply was having Kristen sit in the visiting family section at Yankee Stadium during the playoffs. She says there were ugly taunts. Obscenities. Cups of beer thrown. Even fans spitting from the section above.

"The fans did not do good things in my heart," Kristen says.

"When people are staring at you, and saying horrible things, it's hard not to take it personal."

lol yeah i don't think they're getting him even without seeing that. he'll probably take a bitchmade deal like Halladay's 3/20 per.

No way. Halladay already had a big contract under his belt. This is Lee's only big-money deal. 7yrs/20+ per from somebody.

I bet he'll stay with the Rangers.

Has anybody ever* turned down the Yankees specifically because their fans were assholes?

*last 10-15 years, say

i'd think that if somebody did they would likely avoid coming out and saying it publicly.

Bonds did but that was 17 years ago.

oh i definitely think Lee deserves a 7 year 20+. and he'll absolutely want to stay: he'll either be left with the fan goodwill of winning or have the challenge of leading the staff to another chance, both pretty big motivators. and while Ryan's hand will be forced i wonder if he will really commit to anything over five years.

a 7 year deal will run through lee's age 39 season, which for a guy like him doesn't seem to be too old. he strikes me as the type of pitcher who will age really well.

hahahahah good job, yankees fans

I'd be hesitant to sign Lee for seven years, only because so few long-term pitching contracts ever seem to work out well down the road. (Maddux...I'm sure there are others.) But I realize that if you're one of the big-money teams, you've got to get in there and spend it if you don't want your fans to lose interest.

i think the bad long-term contracts for pitchers have been ones offered by desperate GMs to pitchers whose track record was spotty, who had warning signs despite their good numbers, or were on the decline (cf park, zito, hampton, dreifort, schmidt lol.) even at the time there was no need for hindsight, i think most people thought those sorts of deals were terrible. i think a long-term deal for lee would be about as secure as you could hope for w/r/t a pitcher considering everything. probably better than sabathia, for example.

though admittedly schmidt wasn't really "long-term", but still lol

i'm not sold on Lee. He was DFA'd by the Indians only a couple years ago (without injury!) and was routinely putting up caca numbers. No doubt I admire what he's done, but I think that it's a foolish GM who signs him to a long contract.

really? you think that command is going to abandon him?

I'm sold on Lee.

lee had a pretty mediocre first full season followed by a very good followup year in '05, a league-average-ish '06, the awful '07 (which began with a groin injury, maybe that had some lingering effect?) and since then he's been epic.

EPIC PASS

I'm with my good friend Mr. Shasta on this one. I know he's brilliant right now, and he had the one spectacular Cy Young year. But when I look at his whole career, I see a 32-year-old who has a) exceeded 14 wins twice (yes, I know, wins = meaningless), b) has a career ERA not that far below 4.00, and c) has given up more than a hit per inning over his career (and nothing all that special even if you eliminate the first few years). His SO/BB ratio the past couple of years has been phenomenal. Has he turned a corner permanently? I don't know--$150 million is a lot to find out.

Without taking the time to compare them, he reminds me so much of Kevin Brown.

really? kevin brown was a righthanded sinkerballer with a horrifically violent pitching motion

Lee doesn't seem like the put-a-hand-through-a-wall type, either.

I meant more that Brown seemed to rack up a lot of brilliant 12-15 win seasons (I'm just going by memory--maybe I'm wrong on that)...Not sure I can explain it, but I've got in my mind this family of pitchers who I'd call part-time brilliant: Don Gullett, Brown, Lee...I'm blanking out right now; there are others who fit.

hard to justify 7 years for any pitcher, unless youre as cushy as the Yanks

I'm going to once again pimp the best subhed I ever wrote, and it was about Cliff Lee:

http://cleveland.indians.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20050419&content_id=1021186&vkey=news_cle&fext=.jsp&c_id=cle

tbh i probably wouldn't sign him for 7 years but one could argue he's as safe a bet as anyone if you have to do it. he probably deserves a 5 yr deal, like any pitcher. i'm sure he'll get at least 6 though.

is shasta on crack btw?

Excellent work, Tracer.

i really struggle with the "7 years is too much for any pitcher" party line because, like, that's the reality of the situation unless you never, ever plan to sign elite talent.

in which case you can get fired but take comfort in how smart you are.

lol @ Tracer.

And no Jordan, I am not on crack although I had a cup of coca tea in Cuzco 2 years ago.

Next time you have a question about how a double switch works or the infield fly rule, I will not be as quick to answer it jerkface.

"The reality of the situation"--agree with that totally. You either keep up or (like the Jays the past 15+ years) become irrelevant. Or--the third way--develop a knack for perpetually bringing up good pitchers from below.

I wouldn't sign Lee for 7 years if I had a 100 million dollar payroll, but I'd do it if I had a 200 million dollar payroll.

btw i would've signed sabathia and would leap at the chance to sign lee b/c i think the gap between very good talent and elite talent is being underestimated around baseball these days.

Surely some WS winners from the last decade haven't signed "elite" pitchers to 7-year contracts?

signing him for seven years might be insane but i wouldn't be shocked if lee put up andy pettite numbers in the final few years of a (hypothetical) seven year deal

xp yes and i'm not sure what your point is?

i think lee might be more comparable in terms of career trajectory w/r/t age and "coming into his own" to someone like randy johnson, maybe. i'm sure a lot of folks would have balked at a long-term deal for him when he was around the same age as lee (and maybe even considered his 18-2 cy young season at 31 as his likely peak esp considering his injury the following year) but then he turned into the best lefty since koufax (maybe better?) now i don't actually think lee is going to get any better, but i think he can remain at this level for 5-6 years.

Surely some WS winners from the last decade haven't signed "elite" pitchers to 7-year contracts?

lets wait and see on these giants.. lol

In broad outline I can see the Johnson comparison...but Johnson had already established himself as one of the most dominant pitchers ever by that point. People seem to be treating Lee that way for the past couple of weeks, but I think they're getting carried away. I can definitely see him being effective for 5-6 years; as dominant as he seems to viewed right now, I'd be surprised.

xp: dude, Jason Schmidt.

clemenza, no one is saying that cliff lee is gonna have a 1.26 ERA over the next five or six regular seasons -- but he's clearly one of the five best pitchers in baseball

do you ppl realize lee is a lot closer to a glavine or a pettite than any power pitcher you might name?

he's not someone who is going to be harmed when he loses a few mph and he is quite solid in his mechanics and general health.

Jordan, what is your metric for pitcher evaluation?

Halladay, Lincecum, Felix, Santana...fair enough; I'd say he sits around fifth, with Sabathia and Wainwright and a few others. I agree with you; as I said, I can definitely see him being effective for 5-6 years.

cad, you made it sound like the choice was either give in to the "reality" of 7-year contracts or get fired.

well randy johnson's career era after age 32 was just a shade under 4.00 i think, and a shade higher than cliff lee's.

Lee's combined SEA+TEX '10 VORP ranks him (barely) in the top 20 in MLB.

santana is not going to be better than cliff lee going forward imo. maybe not lincecum, either. i think he's up there w/felix and halladay.

I guess this is the thread where people who have only been paying attn to baseball in the past 2 weeks post?

Kevin Brown is a good comp because he signed a 7-year deal for his age 34-40 seasons, and he was also the type of pitcher you'd expect to age fairly well (injury history aside). He was only good for four out of those seven years. Freakish exceptions like Randy Johnson and Roger Clemens aside, how many pitchers pitch at an elite level in their late 30's? Even Greg Maddux's last truly great season was in 1998 (or arguably 2000) when he was 32.

kevin brown is a terrible comp

Omar: in broad outline, I agree. But as someone else has pointed out, Lee and Johnson are just very different kinds of pitchers.

I just a quick look at (the slightly younger) Santana's stats. I'm not sure why you'd expect Lee to be better from here on out (unless Santana has arm trouble I'm not aware of...I don't do a good job keeping up with stuff like that).

maddux is kind of an interesting case but maybe partially his decline was due to having so much mileage on his arm at that point? though i would say his last great season was '02, maybe.

cliff lee led pitchers in WAR this year btw

the warning sign w/santana is his major decline in k/9IP. he's still really, really good, but he's not near his minnesota level.

cliff lee was second in the mlb in FIP

cliff lee led the mlb in whip

btw if you switch around some letters and subtract an "S" santana becomes tanana

just in case shasta was wondering

Santana's strikeouts have declined precipitously the past three years...good point.

i think it's pretty obv that santana, while still great, is on a slow decline, while cliff lee is on a plateau of being one of the best pitchers in baseball

Brown and Lee: good control, decent K rate, excellent K/BB, kicked it up to another level around age 30, reputation as a great postseason performer, feasted on the low corners of the plate, pitched for a bunch of teams before finally cashing in on a big FA deal, you're right Jordan, these guys have absolutely nothing in common

also: sketchy injury histories in their 20's

didnt santana just have pretty significant shoulder surgery?

yeah except kevin brown was roided out of his mind so a breakdown in his mid 30s was a long time coming

lee's agent to nyy: your money is still good here

"According to Cliff Lee's agent, Kristen Lee's poor experience at Yankee Stadium during the ALCS will have no affect on the left-hander's free agency."

also kevin brown was someone who relied on a lot of hard pitches, while cliff lee is not like that really at all

Santana is definitely fading from his video game/HGH era in Minnesota.

Back to Lee, I had no idea his WAR was so high, although I imagine that is due to the fact that he only pitched 28 games this season whereas most #1 pitchers are in the 33/34 game range, giving Lee the advantage of ample rest. Also noticed Lee compiled a losing record (4-6) while with Texas despite absurdly strong #s, something that might be of interest in the next few days.

as noted before brown also had that relatively violent and twisting delivery (he had back problems, right?) whereas lee's is smooth.

lee's agent to nyy: your money is still good here

"According to Cliff Lee's agent, Kristen Lee's poor experience at Yankee Stadium during the ALCS will have no affect on the left-hander's free agency."

And therefore no effect on other teams' counter offers.

"My wife will gladly be your spittoon and beer receptacle if the $$$ is right, let's make this work"

Lee's leading statistical comps at age 31 are Denny Neagle, Schoolboy Rowe and Chris Carpenter.

if there's one thing i'd say about lee it's that he gives up a lot of flyballs which probably won't help him whether he signs w/ the rangers or the yankees

xp: all three of those players spent the majority of age 32 on the DL.

Gotta head home...Lee's great. And, based on a pretty decent sample, he seems to thrive on postseason play. But I still see a guy who was 14-13 one year ago, with a good-not-great ERA and more hits than IP, and who was 12-9 this year, with a good-not-great ERA and good-not-great H/9. (SO/BB, fantastic.) Cliff Lee mania is at a peak right now. I think people are overdoing it. If I had 150 million to spend and you gave me a choice between Lee and Verlander, I'm pretty sure I'd take Verlander. (Which, I realize, is irrelevant to the question of whether or not you sign Lee.)

AJ Burnett's contract:

2009	32	New York Yankees	$16,500,000		
2010	33	New York Yankees	$16,500,000		
2011	34	New York Yankees	$16,500,000		
2012	35	New York Yankees	$16,500,000		
2013	36	New York Yankees	$16,500,000

(Just throwing that in there for a laugh.)