2010-11 Hot Stove League

Mike Quade named Cub manager!

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/news/story?id=5703131

well we had eric wedge yesterday named as seattles manager.

Ted Lilly is the first free agent to sign afaik. 3 year deal with LAD with moneys not disclosed just yet.. Maybe some time today.

I thought Beelzebud discouraged these announcements in October.

Not entirely sure.. They didnt announce the specifics to the deal, just that he agreed and that he would be taking a physical today. Its not like A-rod declaring his free agency during the last game of the world series.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5704546

brave release melky and saito

Saito is a great pitcher. I didnt mind when my team non tendered him because he sprained his elbow to the point where he said he couldnt brush his teeth. Then he got that weird platelette infusion and hes been ok since.

Lilly deal is 3/33. Not awesome but not embarassing. But check back with me in 2013.

I realized only now that Lilly's been really good the past two years -- maybe better than any point in his career. Seems like a good deal.

A's pitching coach Curt Young moving on after team offers only one year:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/10/24/SPC61G1D6T.DTL

john farrell as torontos new manager.

woot!

so it's Sandy!

http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/news/story?id=5731925

The dry, underachieving Diamondbacks: now with Alan Trammell, Don Baylor, Eric Young, Charles Nagy.

Trammell/Baylor: guy who should've won MVP, guy who shouldn't have.

I think that's the first coaching staff comprised entirely of guys I remember watching as players.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/10/white-sox-marlins-discussed-trading-ozzie-for-stanton.html

WHAT

When was the last time a manager was traded for somebody?

I know the Mets sent someone to Washington in '68 for Gil Hodges.

The Mariners got Randy Winn for Pinella.

Loria should be taken out into the streets and beaten if he traded Mike Stanton for anyone, let alone a manager.

Larry Parrish named Braves hitting coach.

Riccardi is a Met now.

I wonder what Razor thinks?

http://www.3rdbasecoachoflife.com/

The Milwaukee Brewers named LA Angels bench coach Ron Roenicke to be their new manager.

Loria should be taken out into the streets and beaten if he traded Mike Stanton for anyone, let alone a manager.

just because

The Brewers have closed their critical manager-player generation gap (by six years)! Hurrah!

Jayson Werth will almost certainly not be a Phillie next year thx 2 SBoras

"While it is not our intent to negotiate the terms of Derek's free-agent contract in a public forum," Close told AOL FanHouse, "we do agree with Hal's and Brian's recent comments that this contract is about business and winning championships. Clearly, baseball is a business, and Derek's impact on the sport's most valuable franchise cannot be overstated. Moreover, no athlete embodies the spirit of a champion more than Derek Jeter."

...except Edgar Renteria

Texas declines "mutual option" on Vlad:

http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/mlb/news/story?id=5761304

Poor Vlad, he looked really bad as a DH and even worse in the field. Retirement impending?

A couple AL teams should have room for a player who had a top 20 OPS in 2010.

Rangers may still re-sign him

Papi will be back with the Sox.

Beltre has declined his option.

Well beltre was expected to decline his option. Just really hope they come through on some FA's this year. Would also like them to resign V-Mart, cuz salty aint it.

aramis ramirez coming back to the cubs, wonder if he will suck again

not alot of 3B options floating around out there.

The problem with Vlad is that they overplayed him. He was great in the first half.

Ah maybe he's just hurt. His World Series will be one to forget, kudos to Tejas if they re-up after that.

Would also like them to resign V-Mart, cuz salty aint it.

Yeah this.

I don't really mind about Beltre - last season sorta has to be an outlier right? But it's true that there aren't too many 3Bs on the table.

beltre is the only good free agent 3B as far as i know, even if you assume he's gonna hit like 30-40 points lower than he did this year on his slash line

the next best option is felipe lopez or jorge cantu which is a pretty steep dropoff

oh or they could keep bill hall around i guess but still not ideal

I'd take Cantu! He's bounced around teams and leagues, but I think he still hasn't really reached his peak

what's the deal with manny and the white sox? is he around for the coming season?

well of course beltre is a contract yr special...don't think he'll be the same next season, especially for the money he'll want. Wish the sox would make a big offer for Cliff Lee, but you know the Yanks are going to throw a gazillion dollars his way

it's like an irony of the one year contract that beltre's degree of success last year makes it very likely that attempts to resign him will, in one way or another, have an unhappy outcome.

if they don't get it done with beltre i think they try youk at 3B for a full season and sign a stopgap at 1B, then pray anthony rizzo turns out better than lars anderson did

Playing half the year in Fenway instead of Safeco probably had as much (if not more) to do with Beltre's year -- right?

The Myth Of The Contract Year Slugger

http://www.forbes.com/2010/04/13/yankees-phillies-astros-business-sports-bloomberg-baseball.html

what's the deal with manny and the white sox? is he around for the coming season?

― congratulations (n/a), Friday, November 5, 2010 7:58 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

to answer my own question, he's a free agent and the white sox (I hope) probably won't re-sign him since he sucked pretty hard

Anthopoulos pulling a few unexpected moves. trading a ptbnl or cash for Olivio then not picking up his option and then declining Gregg's aswell.

Playing half the year in Fenway instead of Safeco probably had as much (if not more) to do with Beltre's year -- right?

― Andy K, Friday, November 5, 2010 9:57 AM (15 minutes ago) Bookmark

actually it was a .953 road ops that really made his year. he was .880 in fenway.

anecdotal evidence but i didn't really notice beltre abusing the wall this year as much as other guys did on coming to fenway (mike lowell for example)

he hits a lot of balls to the right-center gap iirc, which should be the same everywhere

yeah i'd agree with that. dude hits the ball hard but is extremely dependent on contact in his offensive game; if he hits .280 instead of .330 it changes his value quite a bit.

sox should sign fatty fielder.

not a FA and the sox don't have the prospects to do it right now really

they do but i don't think they would make that trade

best fielder package the sox could offer is kelly + rizzo + filler and i think there are other teams who can top that, plus theo doesn't seem like the type to trade away his only remaining impact prospects

trade milwaukee elsbury and prospects, get fatty and sign crawford! DONE AND DONE. I forgot Fielder wasn't a FA. Still hold out hope for Adrian Gonzalez.

you'd be selling pretty low on ellsbury if you trade him now tbh

dont get me wrong i love jacoby.

yeah i'm just saying he's not likely to be the centerpiece of a deal for fielder or gonzalez, since he just had a lost season and is about to enter his arb years when MIL and SD both need cheaper pre-arb players

red sox really need to play him in CF for another full season if they want to find out whether he's the player the fans think he is or the player the cynical saberdudes think he is

what im really hoping for is a taker for matzusaka...not sure what his value will be...terribly low im afraid.

dice-k is untradeable

even if beltre sank to his seattle numbers (not likely imo, he was a lot better on the road w/seattle) he would be a great choice for 3B. his road numbers w/seattle the last several years there were something like .290/.520/.850?

considering how tough it is to find a good 3B i would snatch him back up.

my feelings on the sox are

1. if the yankees sign cliff lee you can probably close up the AL race
2. feel like if the sox can re-sign/replace beltre and/or v mart, the rays might regress just enough w/o crawford (& if their SP will continues to slip) to get them into the playoffs -- having a healthy OF will certainly help in that regard -- then maybe lester/buchholz/beckett will be just good enough to get them into the WS.

it seems stupid to me to try and trade for prince or a gone for one year when the sox can just throw money at them next year. (unless of course it becomes imminent that either might be traded, which they might)

yeah plus beltre is prob the best defensive third basemen in the AL

sucks about dice-k.

although i can see the sox pulling a carl everett, dumping him for a nobody and eating money.

2010 WS MVP Edgar Renteria is a free agent pending any retirement announcements.

What happened to Daisuke, did he have surgery?

he turned into a FAT TOAD.

i blame his habit in japan of basically throwing a million pitches every day to "keep in shape"

he had fielder ass by mid season.

i mean has there really ever been an asian pitcher who has truly worked out over here long term? nomo for a bit.

*flashes forward to yankees paying $75 million to bid on yu darvish*

chan ho park: 124-98 over 17 major league seasons

timmy lincecum is pretty deece but maybe because he's only 1/4 asian that prevents his orientalness from being too detrimental.

The Tigers have agreed to terms with shortstop Jhonny Peralta on a two-year contract, according to a source with knowledge of the agreement. The deal is expected to be announced in the next couple days, and sew ups Detroit's shortstop opening for the foreseeable future.

Enrique Rojas of ESPN Deportes first reported the two sides were finishing up the final details this weekend. The contract is worth $11.25 million, and includes a third-year club option at $6 million.

The Tigers could have picked up the Indians' 7.25 club option for '11. Not sure what makes this deal significantly preferable.

i dunno. i say this all the time - but why pay the guy that much.

So you're not stuck with Ramon Santiago and Danny Worth or...Orlando Cabrera, I guess... Ehhhh...

BTW:

http://espn.go.com/MLB/freeagents

that is one grim list

in light of that how about:

c - saltalamacchia
1b - victor
3b - youk

haha gabe kapler is available

could have sworn he was already a bench coach somewhere

MIGUEL CAIRO

Kapler was a minor-league manager before his buff carcass was restored to active duty

i want to watch a movie about gabe kapler's life in japan

Depodesta to the Mets, apparently.

DINEROBALL

jeez, they are signing so many supporting palyers from the book I'm expecting the return of Chad Bradford!

Jon Heyman's list of which free agents to avoid and which ones are bargains...from the bargain list, flashing-neon ILB bait!

8. David Eckstein. A two-time World Series champ, this all-time scrapper is a big plus for any clubhouse.

Matt (Wisconsin)
My girlfriend watched the ALCS and the World Series with me and liked your hair....any tips?

C.J. Wilson (1:12 PM)
Wash it every 2 or 3 days. But not every day.

AL Gold Gloves

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5784846

barf Jeter

rlly dude you shd at least post the Fielding Bible voting along w/ that.

I'd say awards sre not Hot Stove

What else would you like to complain about.

the weather, Smoot-Hawley, contact dermatitis

BR weighs in on the Gold Glove announcement:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/

Off to watch Safe.

shouldn't there be an awards thread?

bb ref LOLLLLLLLLLLL

Pasta-diving Jeter

pasta 5 time gold glove winner, amirite?

Gammopaws

pgammo
The Yankees need Jeter's brand. Jeter needs the Yankee brand. This is business, not saberotisserie, without accountability

it presumably makes sense from a marketing standpoint, tho ($20 mil/year compared to $10 mil anyplace else, per whoever the $ analyst quoted in the NYT today)

don't get why everyone is freaking out about the size of his contract when it's the YANKEES paying it. the real issue is his role and playing time and how that will affect the team if he doesn't bounce back

^^^ OTM. Money isn't the issue here, it's the fact that he's likely to be sub-Bernie Williams pretty soon that's the real problem.

Not that I care. Watching the Yankees suffer and Jeter suck will be fun as hell.

I agree that Jeter will be a defensive liability next year, but I am not convinced that he will be a bad hitter again. He was pretty dang good in 2009.

Agree with that totally. He could well be awful again next year, but he is only one year removed from one of his best-ever seasons. (Of course, he'll now be two years older.)

What # of years is being bandied about now? Four? Five?

3-4 at 15-20m per from what i've read

The Dodgers are kicking the tires on Brandon Webb. He and Jason Schmidt will make an excellent 1-2.

mike hampton is out there too

wait is someone making the outrageous claim that WAR numbers don't map perfectly to television ratings which don't perfectly align with sponsor and ad dollars?

hahahahaha

The Texas Rangers announced today that the club has outrighted outfielder Jeff Francoeur off the 40-man roster after he cleared waivers. Francoeur declined the outright and is now a free agent.

how many dumb GMs are left?

Guy shd be a NRI at best next spring

The Dodgers are kicking the tires on Brandon Webb. He and Jason Schmidt will make an excellent 1-2.

― macaroni rascal (polyphonic), Wednesday, November 10, 2010 2:43 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark

wow like 5 years ago.

brian cashman will be my hero if he signs carl pavano

GET HER WARMED UP

http://blog.remakehealth.com/Portals/11143/images//MRI%20Scan%20tube.jpg

The A’s acquired David DeJesus from the Royals for right-hander Vin Mazzaro and left-hander Justin Marks, the teams announced today.

the A's add to their stash of decent but powerless OFs

royals clearing a corner OF spot for frenchy

susanslusser Susan Slusser
With DeJesus, Crisp, Sweeney, Jackson, Davis, etc, Crisp says, "That should get some ladies to the stadium." #Athletics

jayson stark hearing some whispers of good news for morbs!

• Not Werth it: Here's one Phillies source on the odds of his team finding a way to keep Jayson Werth: "No chance. None. Zero." In the end, it might not even be the annual dollars that will force the Phillies to move on. It's their unwillingness to go beyond three or four years for a player who will turn 32 next May.

So where might the Phillies turn? Reports of their interest in guys like Magglio Ordonez, Pat Burrell and Andruw Jones appear highly exaggerated. General manager Ruben Amaro Jr. continues to talk up Ben Francisco, at least in a potential platoon with Domonic Brown -- or with Ross Gload if they decide Brown isn't ready. But the Phillies would still shop for another right-handed-hitting outfield bat. One name we've heard a lot: Jeff Francoeur, who has told friends he'd love to play for Charlie Manuel.

:-O
As someone else with NL East interests to think of, that would be happy news.

Ehhh, pardon my grammar mangulation.

The Rockies would be a good fit for Francoeur, apparently.

going to eat in half hour why dye (still) no have a job?

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/Free-agent-outfielder-Jermaine-Dye-wants-to-play-in-2011

http://www.kansascity.com/2010/11/10/2417935/royals-notebook-bannister-anderson.html

If the Royals are interested in outfielder Jeff Francoeur, long viewed as a potential acquisition target, now is their chance.

Francoeur, 26, became a free agent Wednesday by refusing an outright assignment to the minor leagues by Texas after clearing waivers.

“Obviously, there’s a lot of history there,” said general manager Dayton Moore, who was an assistant GM in Atlanta when Francoeur played for the Braves. “Because of that, there’s a lot of speculation.

“Jeff is a winning-type baseball player who brings a lot of energy. But it’s like anything else. There has to be a fit. It’s been a few years since we’ve been together, but I have a lot of respect for him and how he plays the game.”

Yes, just that. That is the only possible cause for speculation.

A's Claim Edwin Encarnacion

Looks like Kuroda is leaning towards coming back to MLB and most likely with LAD for 1 yr.

http://twitter.com/dylanohernandez/status/3201706703724545

I'll hate on Ned with the best of them but if he signs Lilly and Kuroda thats basically 2 of the top 5 FAs on the market. Now we just need a fifth starter, a catcher, a third baseman who can hit RHP, a first baseman who OPSs more than .700 and a left fielder.

and the red sox go back to the "hyped marlins prospects that never amounted to anything" scrap heap

#Marlins acquire LHP Dustin Richardson from the Boston Red Sox for LHP Andrew Miller.

whoa um can you explain this? dustin richardson is terrible

So is Andrew Miller.

is there still upside with miller?

absolutely not

Honest question: Has any starting pitcher turned a corner or "figured it out" after 300 mostly terrible MLB innings (10.3 H/9, 5.3 BB/9)?

He still hasn't been able to throw with a consistent motion, has he?

he couldn't throw a strike in double A and his WHIP was over 2 when they called him up in sept this year

yeah his mechanics are a mess, and pretty much no one in the marlins system could fix them -- also his stuff never seemed that good to me? i mean i never saw him in college or anything but even in 09 when he was throwing good games from time to time he didn't look any better than, like, sean west

Gammons thinks they're going to make him a reliever.

He hasn't grown into his body, or something.

Stanton, heartbroken:

MikeStanton27 Mike Stanton
Does anyone else wish they made big jugs of Caprisun ....Or is that just me?
40 seconds ago

Gammons thinks they're going to make him a reliever.

― macaroni rascal (polyphonic), Friday, November 12, 2010 5:55 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark

yeah... the marlins tried this too -- the guy can't throw strikes

does he still have options? maybe they just want him as AAA depth

pgammo Peter Gammons
I still believe Andrew Miller can be a dominant reliever. Always been my call that he'd get it @ 27.

Ohhhhh. OK.

well then

on the plus side he was rocking a killer stache last year

Informed Sox Fans are jizzing about this but these are the same people who thought that wily mo pena would magically learn what not to swing at upon joining the sox

or jeremy hermida

or him :(

i hope this becomes an annual hot stove occurrence -- i look forward to having this exact discussion re cameron maybin next year

A typical Andrew Miller inning:

- seven-pitch K
- single on 0-2 count
- eight-pitch walk
- four-pitch walk
- fielder's choice; run scores
- run-scoring wild pitch
- first-pitch double
- screaming line drive caught by infielder

30 pitches, 16 strikes

*wipes away a tear*

Honest question: Has any starting pitcher turned a corner or "figured it out" after 300 mostly terrible MLB innings (10.3 H/9, 5.3 BB/9)?

Halladay turned his career around after about 200 very shaky innings (I think his 10.64 ERA in 2000 may still be the record for the highest single season ERA for a pitcher with more than 50 IP), but he had to go back to A-ball and completely relearn his mechanics and approach in order to do it.

lol for posterity i found the conversation j0rdan and i had about hermida:

yeah he's a big walk guy so he fits w the sox philosophy. his power numbers were pretty disappointing & he's a pretty lousy fielder. also has some mental issues, but maybe moving to the sox will clear his head a bit.

― soiceybot (J0rdan S.), Thursday, November 5, 2009 11:29 PM (1 year ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

jeremy hermida's babip, 2006-2009: .309 .353 .310 .309

HMMMMMMM

― call all destroyer, Thursday, November 5, 2009 11:39 PM (1 year ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

when the guy gets hot he is GOOD, really the problem is that he's a high k/high walk guy, so those babip numbers don't add up to much

― soiceybot (J0rdan S.), Thursday, November 5, 2009 11:49 PM (1 year ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

so he's a high k/high walk guy with no power?

― call all destroyer, Thursday, November 5, 2009 11:50 PM (1 year ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

lol, yes

― soiceybot (J0rdan S.), Thursday, November 5, 2009 11:52 PM (1 year ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

it's a november tradition!

lol :-D

Looks like Maybin is gone now too. Nice haul for Miggy, Marlins. A fringy lefty reliever and ??? for Maybin. At least you will always have that sweet sweet cash.

wow that's kinda surprising, i think maybin's got a much better chance than andrew miller to figure shit out

the marlins bullpen was really absurdly terrible last year, esp in middle relief -- in the long run they might regret this (altho who knows what prospects will come our way when uggla gets flipped) but for the upcoming season two really solid bullpen guys will be much more valuable

altho i'm not so sure about bonifacio as an every day CF

is he really going to be their CF? thought he was a no-bat 2B/3B

well he'll be a no bat CF now

he played CF plenty often after they got rid of ross last year

apparently scott cousins will have a chance to win the cf job http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/cousisc01.shtml

Apparently, as of five minutes ago, Maybin had not been notified.

Rumors about DET's interest in Uggla. FLA wants relief pitching. DET has drafted a lot of relievers lately.

Ryan Webb is really good, cheap, and young. If Maybin figures things out then it will look pretty dumb to have traded a centerfielder for a reliever, but at least he's a good reliever.

Miggy and the premature corpse of Dontrelle for 4 relievers is some Ed Wade level bullshit

Even a good GM makes mistakes.

to be fair, baseball america had maybin and miller both in their top 10 prospects in baseball in 2007. it'd be like if someone traded for desmond jennings and jeremy hellickson from the rays right now, they were big name impact prospects

though not quite as close to the majors as those rays guys i guess

Maybin is out of options, so the Padres can't send him to the minors without passing him through waivers.

i was at cameron maybin's mlb debut. believe it or not, he went 0-for-4 and struck out twice

"Honest question: Has any starting pitcher turned a corner or "figured it out" after 300 mostly terrible MLB innings (10.3 H/9, 5.3 BB/9)?"

Curt Schilling was not quite that bad and hadn't pitched that many innings until he figured it out, but he also had a season or so of regression after having a good one with the Phillies.

Jamie Moyer never got dominating, but he figured it out way down the line. Dave Stewart turned into an excellent starter pretty late, but he had some success as a reliever earlier on.

Jorge De La Rosa maybe? If you ignore his 64 rookie innings pitches in 2004/5 (and I am ingorning them because, uh, I forgot to incorprate them in my sums), then his next 339 IP were at an ERA of 5.64, K/9 of 7.35 and BB/9 of 4.48. Hardly stellar.

Clint Hurdle to manage Pirates.

Terry Collins and Bob Melvin to get callback interviews for Mets' job, but process may be delayed by death of Alderson's father.

Depodesta was going to hire Terry Collins to manage the Dodgers before he was ousted by Frank McCourt. It was kind of the straw that broke the camels back..

The we got Ned and Grady Little. =(

marlins are giving john buck 3 years 18 million

http://i43.tinypic.com/souvye.jpg

Dan Uggla to Atlanta for Omar Infante and Mike Dunn.

wait what

yeesh

ha, uggla didn't even make the all-star team last year -- what a steal

anytime you can trade a non-all star for an all-star, you just have to do it

oof i was hoping for Blue Jays.

or to San Francisco in exchange for Cody Ross.

Can I continue to take a shit all over the Marlins front office for trading for a bunch of relievers

Uggla costs quite a bit more than Infante, to be fair.

Westbrook re-signs with the cards

No complaints from me about Uggla for Infante/Dunn. If that stabilizes LF with Prado, that leaves CF to figure out. But they also have to figure out a Plan B or maybe Plan A 1/2 at 3B -- I don't think Chipper has a healthy season in him.

I hate the Marlins and their whole fucking crew

we're trading all of our good players away so the mets can finish in third this year and not go insolvent -- it's for the good of baseball

Good. Use your aggressive feelings, Morbius. Let the hate flow through you.

i do not understand the fish.

they hold grudges & only pay enough players to barely justify being a team

i get the former - but not the latter.
seriously - 18 mil for buck?! i've got nuthin against Buckaroo, but holy shit - they could do alot more with that money.

yeah i have no idea what that's about esp because john baker is good enough to play against RHP so they theoretically only really need someone to hit vs LHP

is buck an exceptional defender or something?

he was fine but nothing amazing from what i watched.

WmC, I was mocking J0rdy's gangsta hate of the NY Jetropolitan football team (who I really don't give a damn about one way or another)

oh, ok

it's still fun to imagine you as Emperor Palpatine though

great plan

One scout expressed skepticism about Chris Coghlan's ability to play center field. There are even mixed views inside the Marlins, but they will give him the chance. ``Some say he would be average, some say below average,'' manager Edwin Rodriguez, a proponent of the move, told us previously.

seriously - 18 mil for buck?! i've got nuthin against Buckaroo, but holy shit - they could do alot more with that money.

i'd buy 18 million-dollar-a-night hookers.

I like the way you think.

seriously - 18 mil for buck?! i've got nuthin against Buckaroo, but holy shit - they could do alot more with that money.

― got electrolytes (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, November 16, 2010 8:48 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

TBH most teams could do better than most of what they spend 18M on...

did the marlins switch out their entire baseball ops team without telling anyone? so far their offseason has consisted of trading half their core away for relievers

the funny thing is that i think getting buck & infante is in part an attempt to improve the defense somewhat (john baker & uggla are pretty awful defenders) but they're still gonna have at minimum like 3 guys playing out of position, and that's not even counting hanley

the bullpen was seriously horrendous last year but this seems like a biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit of an overreaction

The Buck deal means that Dayton Moore will release Brayan Pena and sign Gerald Laird for 3/12.

typical sox fan here getting fed up with Theo and his scrap heap two nickels instead of a dime moves. Well they are kicking the tires on Justin Upton.

i'm trying not to even think about this justin upton thing because it would be huge.

23 years old....

i'd trade anybody the sox have except for iglesias and prob bard

i wouldn't move iglesias and bard either.

http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/mlb/columns/story?columnist=edes_gordon&id=5814632

BATSHIT CRAZY.

i'd trade both those guys plus more for upton tbh

xp pure posturing tho it may well happen.

why the fuck is upton available anyway? dude has superstar upside and isn't making a ton of money

it's not clear that he is tho the one thing i heard is that towers wants to change their mix of hitters and have a few less high-k guys around.

wouldn't trade them. bard is your closer after paps is gone, if he isn't this coming season...if they move paps this offseason which is a possibility. much rather have upton than crawford or werth.

yeah bard is too important to next year's team if they have any intention of competing

don't think papelbon is going anywhere after last year's bullpen disaster. he's not elite anymore but he's still their 2nd best RP and will be making enough to price him out of every team except dumb large market teams

they could only move him if they acquired an excellent reliever elsewhere

fungiblenatureofrelievers.xls

fuck it all, the yankees are just going to sign every free agent available.

i think paps will still be the closer too unless he implodes early in the season, since it lets them use bard in more high leverage spots

yeah he'll definately start the season as closer.

BNightengale Bob Nightengale
#mlb Marlins owner Jeffrey Loria vows more moves, says team will be as competitive as anyone in division, particularly with bullpen.

Benoit to Tigers, 3/16.5.

Ain't my money...

is 'having more than one hitter' not a priority for the tigers anymore

apparently they're hot on dunn

btw literally every pro sports team in america has now been linked to justin upton

Blue Jays get Rajai Davis.. Wonder what their new manager feels about the running game.. otherwise his stats blow.

good defender but ultimately very poor offensively, he was DFA'd by SF which says a lot.

Maybe John Farrelly will pick him up on his fantasy team and give him the green light

i think they *might* have given up too much in including Magnuson, but what Davis has going for him is exactly what the J's need (aside from a 1B).
this trade could easily go either way.

The New York Yankees would be happy to get Derek Jeter to agree to a three-year contract for $21 million a year, according to a source who has ties to both the team and the player.

The Captain In Photos
With Derek Jeter a first-time free agent, we look back on The Captain's greatest moments in pinstripes. Photo gallery

More photos: Derek's women

But Jeter, the source said, wants at least a four-year deal, preferably five or six. According to the source, there is at least one voice inside the Yankees' hierarchy urging the front office to play hard ball with Jeter.

"Tell him the deal is three years at $15 million a year, take it or leave it," the person taking the hard-line approach said. "Wait him out and he'll wind up taking it. Where's he gonna go, Cincinnati?"

But according to the source, the Yankees are fearful of fan backlash and a public relations nightmare if they let Jeter go.

Five years is hilarious.

More photos: Derek's women

the person taking the hard-line approach said

good source

Next espn.com feature: Derek's women of Cincinnati

benoit to detroit. lot of years for a dude with health issues.

lots of money for a benoit.

that too.

Buck to Marlins.

for some reason im really starting to dislike theo epstein.

@pgammo Plops 1 minute ago via txt

wut

*plops*

he had a wok bowel movement read the earlier one

so old...

Hot Stool, Cool Music

HunterPence9
He can drop bombs at MMP RT @alysonfooter Astros make a trade: They have acquired 2b/ss Clint Barmes from the Rockies for RHP Felipe Paulino

Way to go stros..barmes is the gift that keeps on giving aint' he.

he can carry deer down the steps

the yanquis have traded juan miranda to arizona for a minor league belly-itcher

bfd

Oh. It's like that, huh?

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/11/19/as-royals-tigers-and-indians-on-justin-uptons-no-trade-list/

Amazed he would rather be traded to the PIRATES than the Tigers?!?!

lol he probably forgot to put them on

big fish in a steel pond.

"wait, the Pirates are MAJOR LEAGUE???"

pittsburg is a pretty cool city tbh

I'm pretty sure these were pick based on the organizations rather than the cities themselves although Detroit does give one pause.

i hope everyone will be watching the arizona fall league championship game in 20 mins

MLBN?

yup

Harper will be playing.

i already hate him and his fucking eyeblack

Lombardozzi? Heh.

some pretty crappy defense here. but a lot of guys play out of their usual positions in the afl.

probably no one cares but micah hoffpauir has left the cubs to go play in japan.

chad tracy going to japan too

i think that would be fun for a season or two

yanks released abaladejo yesterday after he set an international league record for saves (and was otherwise v. good). he is presumed to go to japan, but i guess i don't know why some other team doesn't pick him up for cheap -- fungibility of relievers and all that

How strong is the AFL this year? Cuz Harper's stats as a 18 yo are pretty incredible.

a lot of those guys are out of double-a/high-a, with a few exceptions. but it's easily the best pitching (however raw) that he's faced and, uh, yeah he turned 18 last month.

wooo Zep!

i found it a little disturbing when Harper started doing the Dandy Jim Crow dance, but i guess it passes for entertainment.

Mets name Terry Collins

d train! http://twitter.com/#!/jcrasnick/status/6822887692443648

o i c morbs did bump a thread, sorry

http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/mlb/news/story?id=5842176

v-mart to los tigres

WHAT THE FUCK THEO. Let the Salty era begin.

reading the globe and they state that mark prior is coming back...or attempting too...how much you wanna bet theo and he boner for reclamation projects for little money make a run.

that's the inefficient market right now, right? low cost reclamation projects and expiring contracts?

but mark prior...i dont think he has an arm. he pitches with his feet.

giants re-sign aubrey huff to two-year deal

definitely disklike letting victor go on the balance of things--he was a reasonably sure bet for two more years of catching and two of 1b/dhing at his current offensive level.

heyman was just on the sports hub saying that martinez felt insulted with the 2 year 20 million offer from the sox in sept. WELL NO SHIT. They seem to have this smug attitude with their players and contracts, makes me want to smash the shit out of theos face. I can see him sitting there with his bulgy eyeballs. Im a little pissed...obviously.

lol i didn't realize they made that offer.

guess they never intended to resign him.

its like they make it out to be a privilege to play for Boston...here's our lowball offer and if you dont like it, screw off. when they have true talent they fucking blow it, and theo falls in love with these marginal shit bums....year after year. fuckin lugo and jd drew are paying huge dividends huh wonder boy?

lol "shit bums"

I thought Drew's been good for Boston?

The stat guys like him; the regular fans hate him.

Remember when he hit a grand slam in the playoffs.

Btw all the fans sick of Theo are spoiled babies :/

drew's been good but is an exasperating player to watch regularly

Drew's facial expression never says "LOOK LOOK I AM TRYING SO HARD to take a shit UNGH" -- like Mark Teixeira. So he sucks.

Btw all the fans sick of Theo are spoiled babies :/

Agreed!

you are right. ^^^ i am spoiled.

xp it's more like how can a guy with such a pretty swing ground out to second five times in a row

Remember when we made the playoffs?

Are Red Sox still linked to Crawford?

no idea

Shank was saying its going to be over payment for Werth and they'll live with it.

it better not be fucking werth

Lots of chatter about Martinez to Detroit, 4/50.

They seem to have this smug attitude with their players and contracts, makes me want to smash the shit out of theos face.

newenglandpatriotsdeamofthedecade.mov

yeah them too.

This is off-topic, but do you think these guys look alike?

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4132/5201797445_9565f10222.jpg

looks like he's giving that guy a hand release.

so glad the Giants re-signed Huff, welcome back. knew it was going to happen but some other team could have blow him away with an offer.

polyphonic that is Dave Flemming and Jon Miller. they are saying that Dave Flemming will be leaving for a bigger role on another team in the near future. the Giants will now have Jon Miller full time, so the Kruk and Kuip TV booth might be a bit more crowed next year.

crowed crowded

on the plus side if beltre walks too the sox will get a shitload of first round draft picks in a loaded draft year

yeah that's def a valid plus side, but in the short term, the sense i'm getting is that the fanbase is getting increasingly pissed off. they hate seeing that the team was outbid by less than $10 mil over four years--really puts all those $100 fenway tickets in perspective.

yeah i think after missing the playoffs they'll try to make at least one traditional Big Move this offseason to appease everyone, i just don't know what it could be at this point besides signing one of beltre/werth/crawford. all of their trade chips lost a lot of value last year except for buchholz who had such a big performance spike that trading him would look really bad PR-wise

and i don't really want to end up with werth, who's basically a right-handed jd drew

agreed--werth will be much worse than drew imo

Werth's career SB% is 87.5! Wow.

urgh. The hub was saying to sox should at least make a mention that they are interested in Jeter...with no intention of ever signing him. Just to make NY go apeshit.

hub otm

iso glad the Giants re-signed Huff, welcome back. knew it was going to happen but some other team could have blow him away with an offer.

I think you're wearing orange-tinted goggles, Bee. I'll make a gentleman's wager with you that Huff doesn't reach 2.5 WAR either of the next two seasons. He's not a bad signing but what level of Jeter-esque offer do you think might have been forthcoming (and from whom) to blow away your 22/2 agreement?

I think you're wearing orange-tinted goggles, Bee.

his level of homerism has even made Morbs' Mets fandom look rational

OTOH, his team won the world series. I think he gets a pass.

I'm curious about how Morbs will react to the Mets actually having a decent team at some point over the next few years!

wow that is a fucking fortune for aubrey huff

I'm on my phone so I can't paste something from the Simmons chat, but he talked in it about the red sox off season, how the lackey signing was a huge mistake that came from feeling pressure to do something every off season & how he hopes they don't do it this year. I'm kind of inclined to agree with him, considering that they were pretty close to the playoffs last year even with all the nava/hall/kalish etc at bats. The should he able to win the wild card over a crawford-less rays if they can stay healthy. And the potential 2012 FA class is loaded.

i assume this is the bit you're talking about:

I'd much rather see them re-sign Beltre (as long as it's fairly reasonable) and avoid a big-money panic signing (like the Lackey one last winter) that's done partly so they can say, "Look, we changed our team!" That's the Lou Gorman mentality that Theo Epstein always swore to avoid - you don't make moves to make fans/writers/talk show hosts happy in December, you make them because they're smart. And overpaying for Crawford/Werth (and losing draft picks) so we can then turn around and deal Jacoby Ellsbury for 35 cents on the dollar... how is that smart? The team got destroyed by injuries last season and still hung around into September. Why do they have to panic?

i mean i don't know if that's why they signed lackey, but if it is then they're a way dumber org than i ever thought.

i also don't know if they should be feeling "panic" but it would be a huge mistake to assume that an overall injury bounceback will be enough to keep them competitive--they got hugely lucky in a couple areas last year and those are going to regress.

hey guys, the bosox are interested in bringing varitek back, so there's always that silver lining to work with.

The thing with Werth and Drew is that theyre great players, but if theyre the highest paid players on your team youre kinda fucked.

what does that even mean?

like, if barry zito and aaron rowand are the 2 highest paid players on your team, are you even more fucked?

They're great pieces but if say the orioles go out and spend 100 mil on werth they're fucked. It's like when deposesta paid a grip of money for jd drew. Good player, but if he's your highest paid guy everyone hates his guts.

Didn't Dodger fans hate Drew's guts because 1) he kept getting hurt and 2) once he had a really good year he left?

It was standard drew hate but he was brought in as an impact bat, power threat, run producer etc and he wasn't that type of guy but was given that type of guy money. I think his best year he had 25 hr/100 rbi but it wasn't enough for people.

Mark C, Mets had 'a decent team' both Septembers they blew the division

drew's a good player but looks and acts like a mercenary. which, of course, he and everyone else is, but fans don't like their illusions broken. when you make that kind of money it probably isn't too much to ask that you look like you care. (lookin at u, hanle y)

so Jeter and the Yanks are 80 million apart!

It is the most 0_o thing I've ever seen! Even Ryan Howard was a good deal compared to this. I'm sure the team can turn on the emotion just as much as Jeter, and I can only see one winner (unless you call earning $45m a "winner").

Huh - it's weird to be efectively rooting for the Yankees for a change.

Stay strong, brother Cashman!

i do consider making $45m a winner, yes.

I wouldn't mind being a $45m "loser"

No wonder Cashman has been attacking Jeter in the press!

Jon Garland signed with the Dodgers for 1Y/5M, which is more or less what he made last year. Neyer praised his deal with SD last year, saying that 5M for a guy who never gets hurt and gives you 200 IP every year is a bargain. I guess most teams haven't figured that out, because Garland will make the same money in '11!

i'm guessing he will settle for 4 years 18 per. not a very Jeterian sum.

i do consider making $45m a winner, yes.

I wouldn't mind being a $45m "loser"

That was my point, yes.

Garland was a good grab by the Dodgers. their rotation is looking pretty sweet.

maybe garland can bat clean up while he's at it

poor jeter

i mean, not really "poor" jeter

Vasquez to Marlins for 1/(around?)7?

"Martinez is definitely a player who gives your offense a legitimate, consistent, middle-of-the-order hitter,’’ said a National League GM. "A legitimate .300 hitter with 20-plus homer power, three times over 100 RBIs, and he really rakes lefthanded pitching. "That was the strange thing about the Red Sox for me — that in a division where there are so many good lefthanded pitchers, Martinez hit them at a .400 clip (in 2010). Big, big loss for the Red Sox.’’

A few bitter/jilted Red Sox fans (scoffing at Detroit as a desirable team/city, etc) in the MLBTR comment sections.

theo epstein and his web of lies.

all those baserunners martinez failed to throw out were just holograms

colletti chasin giant free agent waterfalls again

Ken Rosenthal of FOXSports.com reports that Juan Uribe's new three-year deal with the Dodgers will be worth $21 million.

That's quite a bit of money to be paying an over-30 infielder with a 731 career OPS, but he will immediately improve the Dodgers' middle infield and should bring a spark to the lineup. Uribe batted 248/.310/.440 this year with 24 home runs and 85 RBI while playing second base, shortstop and third. He will start most games at second in Los Angeles.

wowwwwwwwww!

dude is going to revert to a pile of shit as soon as next year. its our lot in life to suffer.

well that rules out asst'd jeter-to-LAD pipe dreams floating around out there...

I had a dream/nightmare about that the other night.

Not resigning Uribe is one of the best moves Sabean has made.

@OzzieGuillen Hard work put u in nice situation my fat boy

uribe was not in the dream i had about the giants :(

yorvit torrealba to the rangers, I am semi-heartbroken.

Uribe a Dodger, who would have thought? three years is way too many for him.

you think?

these season tickets dont sell themselves people

this alleged 10 year deal for Tulowitzki sounds crazy...

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AsmTVTy0t_GCHPE8K_8xzocRvLYF?slug=jp-tulowitzkiextension112910

really dislike the 'small market team shouldn't have signed [elite player] to a huge contract because they can't afford it' stance. it might apply to the ryan howards and jayson werths of the world but not the tulos and mauers imo

not really sure if this is that bad of a deal

im sort of warming to the idea of Jete's in a sox uniform.

i must be fucking bat shit crazy.

yes

as a J's fan, i would love to see that happen.

if he could play third....which he wouldn't.

The Tulo deal doesnt look that bad because hes an elite talent, but he's been hurt almost every year.

Tuloshitzki

The New York Daily News, citing a source, had reported earlier Monday that Ryan had reached out to Pettitte in an effort to recruit him to join the Rangers.

True or not, the Yankees brass reacted angrily to the prospect of Pettitte talking to the Rangers, with a source telling ESPNNewYork.com that it is a "total [expletive] joke."

Pettitte, 38, hasn't definitively said he is returning to play next season. He previously has spoken about retiring, but never followed through. There is a strong belief that he will play again next year.

"Pettitte's gonna pitch here or he's gonna pitch nowhere," said the New York source, who speculated that someone in the Rangers' organization might have put out the report "to push us back on Cliff Lee."

i guess free agency doesn't apply to yankee players lol

largeyankeefanfuckyou.gif

""Pettitte's gonna pitch here or he's gonna pitch nowhere," said the New York source, who speculated that someone in the Rangers' organization might have put out the report "to push us back on Cliff Lee.""

I don't know how that info would push the yankees off cliff lee tbh

I mean tht doesn't make a lick of sense.

yeah like they cant afford both. puleeez

"push us back" for going after Cliff Lee is how I read it.

The Tulo deal doesnt look that bad because hes an elite talent, but he's been hurt almost every year.

Tell me from your own memory just what these injuries have been. Assuming you can't, go look them up and then see if you feel the same way.

push the yankees off cliff

I would like to subscribe to your newsletter thx

Tell me from your own memory just what these injuries have been. Assuming you can't, go look them up and then see if you feel the same way.

Ok so not every year theres an injury, just 2 out of 4. Either way I wouldnt give anyone a 10 year contract period.

Most long term contracts look bad in the last couple of years of the deal (if not before then). I don't see how anyone can say for sure that Mauer's contract won't be handcuffing the Twins in a few years time.

Tulowristski

Theriot: "I'm finally on the right side of the Cubs-Cardinals rivalry."

tejada to the giants to play SS lol

sabean must've been like a kid on christmas when he realized there was a 37 year old shortshop w/ an obp under .320 up for signing

http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/121/l_ca50ea115a594a99915e2d377791b450.jpg

^^^no idea

This genius Brian Sabean move (remember 2010) puts the Giants over the top for 2011, guys.

Tejada, WTF?

well at least it is only for one year. i hope they have room for Brandon Crawford on this team, i want the future at short stop in 2011.

He was pretty good for the Padres. Bad range but sure-handed, and pretty decent with the bat. Only one season removed from a .795 OPS season.

i guess after huff & burrell found fountains of youth, really anything is possible

if you sign enough declining veterans eventually some will have bounce-back years, they just happened to hit on 2 in one season this year

i suspect the list of failures during sabean's tenure is a lot longer

Is Miggy much worse than Juan Uribe?

No, he's better because they only have to have him around for one year!

Ahahahah, this is the Sabean that I know and, well, know.

good move beaner.

Pat Burrell is coming back to the Giants for one more year.

how come i'm not excited?

somehow sanity has found its way into your brain

sox meeting with craw-daddys agent.

Supposedly Sabean matched the Dodgers offer for Uribe (or was 1 mil less) and he opted to go to LA instead. Really upset about that. Would have loved Sabean to go all in one more time.

hilarious.

teacher has become the student

Pirates release Indian TV contestant Dinesh Patel

looks like the giants signed pat the bat for 1mil. good deal.

"There is no way around it, older players are being looked at differently," Johnny Damon said. "But what a lot of people forget is that guys like me and Jeter, we came out at the same time and we are special players. If things need to get done on a baseball field, we get it done."

i just love this

real special damon, real.

johnny damon i need you to throw the ball from left field to third base on the fly. can u get it done y/n

hey jd, could you mow the outfield into a nice contrasting diamond pattern? get back to me soon. thanks buddy!

johnny damon i need you to throw the ball from shallow left field to the shortstop on the fly. can u get it done y/n

johnny damon i need you to improve your 2010 RISP slash stats (.209/.314/.297). can u get it done y/n

haha

sox sign varitek to one year deal. OUR CATCHER PROBLEMS ARE SOLVED!

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2010/12/red_sox_sign_va.html?p1=News_links

cmon, he's likely a decent backup catcher/Salty mentor for a year

The White Sox and free agent Adam Dunn have agreed to a deal that will pay the slugger $56 million over four seasons, pending a physical.

That's probably a pretty good deal assuming that Dunn agrees to DH a lot. It's not so good if they are going to shove him back in LF or whatever.

that's a fortune for a dh so i assume he will play the field

He's more valuable if he doesn't.

Konerko is probably gone if they get Dunn. Dunn seems like he wants to play the field and not just DH.

I know Konerko is getting older but considering the season he just had it seems weird to get rid of him.

Dunn's on his couch, hands inside the waistband of his sweatpants, watching the Hot Stove analysts rip his defense, saying "Ahh, geez guys -- I'm really not that bad. Come on."

Wouldn't be the least bit surprising if they kept Konerko.

i think considering how shitty their DHs were last year, they're aiming for dunn to play most of the time as a DH, maybe switching out w/konerko (if they keep him.) which i think they will try to do.

mariano back for 2/30 i guess

lol there is a rumor that the red sox offered him more years and money

sox actively shopping paps.

which GM has 11M+ to spend on a Closer and is dumb enough to do so?

hmm.

Dodgers non-tender Russ Martin. Godspeed little buddy. If you had told me 3 yrs ago that out of the Dodgers young core that Russ would be the first to go Id say you lost your goddamn mind. But his sub .700 OPS over the last couple years has been disheartening.

betcha the sox sign him. theo loves his reclamations on the cheap.

is there a work/effort/intangibles problem with russ martin?

think he broke his hip

Is he still down w/ yoga?

Butt butt Russ Martin. Godspeed little buddy. If you had told me 3 yrs ago that out of the Butt young core that Russ would be the first to go Id say you lost your buttdamn mind. But his sub .700 OPS over the last couple years has butt disheartening.

i kind of want the red sox to snatch him up, he's got at least as much chance to bounce back as salty does i'd think

id take a chance on him too, salty can rot in the minors.

I'm gonna blame any dodger failings on torre

dodgers used the most sac bunts of any team last year, and also gave the most IBBs

I'm gonna blame any dodger failings on torre

― JIMMY MOD THE SACK MASTER (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Friday, December 3, 2010 12:24 PM (25 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

jesus the braves just traded for linebrink

http://www.boardshortsreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/peteGameChanger11.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/1adUS.jpg

cashman

see the stream of shit coming from his ass.

The red sox should just pick up every catcher at this point. What a shit pile that position is for them. Theo should be fired if Kevin cash plays even one out next year.

http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2010/12/04/amd_cashman_yankees.jpg

hero

Russ was overworked but if you compare him to a similar situation in Jason Kendall, at least Kendall lasted longer than 3 years.

Martin can still draw a walk but the dude was fucking obsessed with pulling the ball and would constantly tap out weakly to ss and 3b.

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/176/dunnp.jpg

Supposedly Dunn and AJ took some backloaded money so the Sox would have cash to resign Konerko. How sweet.

Dodgers pay Rod Barajas 3x much money he made last year. Awesome. Low OBP, high SLG players are the new market inefficiency.

ORLY, cuz Jack Cust is a free agent...

cust has a high obp

Low OBP, high SLG players are the new market inefficiency.

there's a glut of these. this year and last.

ya Cust's obp blows my mind.
i sort of wouldn't mind if the J's took a flier.

SATURDAY, 12:01am: The Red Sox are very close to acquiring Adrian Gonzalez from the Padres, tweets Dan Hayes of the North County Times. Hayes says the trade would just involve Gonzalez and not Heath Bell, whose name has come up in other rumors. Hayes adds that the deal will only involve minor leaguers - not players such as Jacoby Ellsbury, Daniel Bard, or Jed Lowrie. Casey Kelly would definitely be involved.

holy shit if the sox manage to turn their ruined farm system into Gonzalez...

"with the potential signing of AGonz the Sox will have to figure out what do with Mike Lowell..."

i find myself wondering who has Gonzalez in the keeper league.

seems weird to me that uribe went to LA

http://i.imgur.com/u3g8Z.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/8fT52.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/l5fuA.png

I already made the trade for A-Gonz in 9 Innings 2011 - best deal I've made so far

Those are some sweet illustrations btw

well hopefully the acquisition of gonzalez quiets the hordes for 5 minutes. weirdly, i now think that they might as well go get jayson werth too?

http://www.myyesnetwork.com/16197/blog/2010/12/04/curry:_jeter,_yanks_to_agree_on_deal

long national nightmare, etc.

A-Gonz deal is fucking awesome

I'm glad he finally got called up to the big leagues.

lol

cards sign berkman for 1yr/$8m o_O

to play the outfield!!

And hit ninth.

A-Gonz deal is fucking awesome

I'm glad he finally got called up to the big leagues.

classic, thanks for the laughs polyphonic

i can and can't believe the Padres did this. when hardly anyone shows up for games, these are the kind of moves they were forced to do.

Padres, Diamondback and Dodgers are fighting for fifth next year.

not convinced the padres are going to crash into the basement from ditching one good player, no matter how good he was

so really the only person who thinks highly of these prospects is jed hoyer, because he helped scout them?

thinks THAT highly i should say

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/rankings/organization-top-10-prospects/2011/2610882.html

ranked 1st, 3rd, and 6th in the organization by BA

keith law likes kelly and rizzo too

they're generally highly-regarded prospects by scouts, people are just freaking out because their minor league stats aren't impressive

the question is more whether hoyer actually made the effort to shop him to teams who have better prospects than kelly and rizzo, since they're not top-20-in-all-of-baseball type guys like some of the dudes who were moved in the Cabrera and Teixiera trades in recent years

let me just back track here and say theo you are the greatest Gm of all time and i would make sweet jew love to you any time.

hoping Hoyer knows something about A-Gone's shoulder..

I'm pretty sure Hoyer got just about the best he could for Gonzalez. It's not really comparable to the Teixiera deal since that was a "win now" middle of the season deal. I think the return is better than the Santana deal, which it is similar to (one year plus window to sign for a longer extension). Given that a large part of the value of Gonzalez is the ability to sign him for that extension really only a very few teams were going to be able to offer comparable packages and a lot of those teams either don't have great farm systems or don't need a first basemen.

It's a shit trade for the Pads - Fuentes is a mirage and they should've at least gotten Kalish. It should tell you something that this trade would've been "better" if you replaced any of the non-Kelly players with Ellsbury. Hoyer's either doing Theo a favor or is overly enamored with Sox prospects. I refuse to believe that there wasn't another team willing to make a better offer.

What other teams do you think has a deep enough farm system to trade better prosects, a hole @ first base and the money to sign Gonzalez to an extension?

I mean I guess the Angels kind of have all three, but it's not like they were going to trade Mike Trout so I don't see how their next three top prospects were going to be much better.

"deep enough farm" is a non-starter since the Sox didn't even have to dig deep for this one. Besides that, the extension shouldn't be a factor either because a lot of teams *should've* been looking into this at least for a one year rental. The Rays, Jays and Rangers all have the need and prospects coming out the ass, and this could've pushed one of them over the top for a playoff run next year. You really don't think anyone else would've given up a cant-miss prospect for *Adrian Gonzalez*? Instead of Casey Kelly (question mark), Fuentes (lottery ticket, dime a dozen) and Rizzo (also dime a dozen)? None of these guys will even play in 2011! You can't compare it to the Santana trade, because Gonzalez didn't have the team by the balls with a NTC. The Cabrera trade is what they should've been aiming for - two 5 star prospects who were (thought to be) much closer to the majors than any of these guys. If this was really the best possible deal and he couldn't get major league ready talent, then he shouldn't have traded Adrian Gonzalez for a bunch of fungible one/two-star talent and a toolsy 20-year old who stunk in AA-ball. Either way it's a gross misuse of available resources.

All of this adds up to the inescapable conclusion that no other teams were seriously involved in this... it looks like they just talked to the Sox the whole time, and that looks bad. and oh hey what do you fucking know:

SI_JonHeyman Jon Heyman :there is optimism the gonzalez trade will happen. but on the of chance it doesn’t, #padres will keep him and won’t field offers. #redsox

haha welp

SI_JonHeyman Jon Heyman
word last nite was that at a-gon sought 8 yr deal, #redsox preferred 6. but that was early in process and unconfirmed. #padres
2 minutes ago

SI_JonHeyman Jon Heyman
#redsox just could not reach deal w a-gon. #padres
13 minutes ago

SI_JonHeyman Jon Heyman
Source; gonzalez deal fell thru
14 minutes ago

we're all devastated

lol sox nations gonna freak

xp angels have morales at 1B

teams that have a 1B hole and could/would extend gonzalez:

Cubs - don't have any impact guys in their farm system
Dodgers - same as cubs, no prospect as good as Kelly
Braves - could have worked, they've got better pitchers than Kelly, and Freddie Freeman is a similar 1B prospect to Rizzo
Nationals - haha it'd be Bryce Harper or no deal i guess
Rangers - another good fit but they seem to want Cliff Lee as their one big contract
Mariners - Pineda is a better pitching prospect than Kelly, Dustin Ackley is probably Pedroia with worse defense. could have worked and i expect them to try for Prince after last year's disastrous offense

and then teams who might have traded for him and then let him walk after the season:
A's - Beane tried this with Matt Holliday last year and it didn't work, not sure if they have the prospects to match the Sox now
Rays - this would have been scary, i can only assume that they didn't try or weren't given a chance to

so yeah there's like 3 other teams who could trade for him, who knows if they tried though

SI_JonHeyman Jon Heyman
#padres person said late thursday they wouldnt field more offers for a-gon if deal with #redsox fell thru, as it has. we'll see.

man people here are gonna be furious now, this was reported like it was a done deal

It's always fun listening to you guys act like you know which prospects are the good ones.

Literally every prospect is exactly the same. There's no difference between anyone.

i just base what i say on people's rankings/write-ups ie baseballamerica, keith law, kevin goldstein, etc

"The Rays, Jays and Rangers"

Rays don't seem to do prospects for rentals, do they?

Jays or Rangers might have been able to work this, sure, but the problem is that neither of those teams appear have the resources to restock their system the way the Red Sox do. So they are going to necessarily value their best guys more than Boston does. The Red Sox just dealt three (maybe four w/ the PTBNL) of their top ten prospects and they won't miss them at all in all likelihood cuz they'll just buy a bunch more in what is a supposed to be a very rich draft.

Freeman is a much higher rated prospect than Rizzo btw.

Sox didn't deal anyone, as the deal fell through.

Yeah, that's a good point about the Sox. It's trivial for them to overslot on the first 10 rounds or whatever every year and keep their system packed.

xp Wonder if it was really the 8 year deal that did it.

Red Sox are the only org I can think of that could just toss off a player as incredible as Hanley Ramirez and not miss a beat.

lol what

mlbtraderumors
Werth Close To Deal With Nationals http://bit.ly/fv4nyT #mlb

Ken_Rosenthal
Sources: Werth to #Nationals confirmed. #MLB

lol are red sox getting shut out of all the good deals??

jesus christ

SI_JonHeyman Jon Heyman
Werth gets 7 year deal from #nats
2 minutes ago

holy christ

heyman's a boras mouthpiece so it's probably true

7/126 for werth

Bonkers.

guh. how much better is DC after this? I guess they might not be last in the division.. maybe.

Well since they are losing Dunn I'd say it's a bit of wash.

Buy low on 'werth' puns

I'd rather have Werth since he plays a very good right field (and a decent center in a pinch), but yeah Washington still needs more offense. They had a ton of money come off the books this year, so they probably still have room to make some moves.

I'd rather have Werth too (esp. longer-term) but I don't think the difference next year is enough to catapult up the standings.

the royales, btw, have an insane farm system, but of course there's no need for them to rent gonzalez.

anyway, if kelly doesn't work out as a pitcher they can move him back to shortstop.

Yeah aren't the Royals trying to move Greinke as we speak?

kelly's not going back to shortstop

j/k

SI_JonHeyman: #redsox, #orioles, #phillies also tried for werth, who's a nat now. Philly bid about "bay money." Close to $66 mil/4 yrs

oh Werth is gonna be one prog-rock-lookin' albatross in years 6 & 7

thank you Nats for now fuxxoring up all BoSox/Rangers moves on Carl Crawford. the bar has been set.

i dont know how believable these rumors are but the idea of a Hamilton / Crawford / Cruz OF with David Murphy as a backup or trade piece is

scary

holy shit what are you doing rizzo

this sounds like one of those moves where management forces the FO's hand in an attempt to get more fans to the park

i feel like after years of always being in the 'discussion' for marquee free agents they just decided to jump at the slightly less than marquee free agent that would actually agree to play for them long term

i hope zimmy is happy now

realized that this is pretty much exactly the contract that torii hunter got, just w/ two years added cuz werth is two years younger at the signing date

crazy that the werth deal is worth more than holliday's

http://i.imgur.com/IXECr.jpg

"it's"

c'mon buster

@AnthonyDiComo: Alderson on Werth's deal: "It makes some of our contracts look pretty good.".

@AnthonyDiComo: More Alderson on Werth: "I thought they were trying to reduce the deficit in Washington"

I hope the Nationals destroy the Mets this year and Werth makes Alderson floss with his dangleberries.

SI_JonHeyman Jon Heyman
Deal is done. A gon headed to #redsox. Press conf expected tomorrow

whut

the extension fell through but they're still going to trade for the 1-year rental and try again later, i guess

^yep

oh -- makes sense imo

they can always sign prince

what a weird day. sounds like they still plan to extend him, but not until after the season starts/his shoulder is healed.

if they announce an extension now, they'll have to pay luxury tax in 2011. if they announce it after opening day, they don't. sounds like they've agreed to something but are keeping it under wraps until next year

when are the gonzalez shirts going on sale?

shaun marcum to the brewers for brett lawrie (their #1 hitting prospect)

so now i wonder if theo is done...im sure there is a reliever to be had and maybe Crawford??? Or stick with Kalish?

i assume this means no crawford and no big moves--relievers and hopefully a right-handed bench guy

if they did sign crawford....wow.

shaun marcum to the brewers for brett lawrie (their #1 hitting prospect)

i would have expected a better return for Marcum.

i'm a kalish boostah - keep it in-house!!

good press conference...or as good as one of those things gets. dale arnold is cumming in his slacks.

mark reynolds to orioles for david hernandez and kam mickolio, pending physicals

i honestly don't know what either team is thinking w/ this one...

Strikeouts

that jayson werth deal

http://www.mikethemasterdater.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/joker-burning-money-in-tdk.jpg

really i expected werth to get something like jd drew did with the red sox several years back, at most.

he's a very similar player to drew other than being a righty

less injury prone and much faster.

The Pirates and Scott Olsen, together at last.

lmao @ baseball execs being so appalled at the worth deal.

they're appalled because they wanted to sign crawford for something about that size and now they have to pay him way more

Werth got Vernon Wells' money ... I wonder which deal was/will be worse?

I feel like this is similar to the off-season with Sarge Jr and Juan Pierre signing obscene contracts.. GMs tried to put that genie back in the bottle the last two years but the Werth deal kinda fucked that up. Of course gms/owners are pissed.

just wait til pujols goes on the market... he'll get a-rod+ money right?

8 yrs/240?

if he sells himself out to the highest bidder, yes -- but i bet he pulls a halladay and gives stl a discount

i mean, unless albert goes to sleep at night just waiting for the day that he can suit up for the mets or, like, the angels, the two biggest bidders are pretty set at first base

there's another position he can play in the AL though...

i can't imagine he won't stay in STL though

you really think pujols would go to the yankees just to DH?

that would conceivably swear me off baseball

I feel like this is similar to the off-season with Sarge Jr and Juan Pierre signing obscene contracts.. GMs tried to put that genie back in the bottle the last two years but the Werth deal kinda fucked that up. Of course gms/owners are pissed.

yeah werth is a way better player than these guys though

i think this is a pretty isolated incident in that clearly the nats just wanted to make a splash and unless for some reason a marquee free agent just absolutely fell in love w/ DC, they were gonna have to overpay to land a big name

when matthews signed w/ the angels they were obv moving into the artie moreno era of being big money spenders, but they had already signed vlad to a pretty big deal previously

& of course the dodgers always spend

i think that shit is awesome that the nats did that. makes zero business sense but i like it when team's get ready for their run. it's exciting to watch and it electrifies fans.

its not my money.

make a run at third in their division?

what happened in the last 2 days in a nutshell

the nationals fucked everyone who might have wanted to restore some sort of fiscal sanity to their decision-making process and the nationals fucked themselves for the better part of a decade, probably.

since we're talking jayson werth, can i just say how much this delights me:

http://www.sportressofblogitude.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/NeverEndingWerth1.jpg

hahahahahaha

let's go back to this:

he's a very similar player to drew other than being a righty

― ciderpress, Monday, December 6, 2010 10:48 AM (9 hours ago)

less injury prone and much faster.

― i love you but i have chosen snarkness (Steve Shasta), Monday, December 6, 2010 10:53 AM (9 hours ago)

Werth is probably the #1-#3 RF in baseball over the last few years. JD Drew is top 10?

wish this guy had signed outside the NL East

JD Drew is a piece of shit.

why are people bent out of shape about this? i think it's hilarious werth put the marketplace on tilt. jordan makes a good point that you have to overpay (ideally a little) just to get someone to consider DC.

do you guys prefer the pirates/marlins model of ekeing out modest profitability year to year?

i don't want to hate every single greedy-ass overpaid baseball player i see when i go to a game when i can barely scrape together enough work to keep myself afloat and half my friends are struggling too.

jordan makes a good point that you have to overpay (ideally a little) just to get someone to consider DC

Players also like to play for winning teams or teams that are well-run and might be on the cusp of winning. But that's too difficult for some GM's, so they pay 100M for non-superstar players instead.

I mean, running a franchise well takes actual skill and hard work. It's a lot easier for a GM to overpay a guy and convince himself (and the player) that spending money = we're a team on the rise.

i'm broke too but the owners are making money hand over fist so let beardy get his.

otm

true. true. are they tho? i have no idea what team profits are like, tbh.

only their hairdressers know for sure

Werth is a really good player, but if I'm throwing money around I'd rather have Carl Crawford.

i can't even imagine what kind of deal he's got to be expecting now.

feels like the fact that crawford is a good-not-great hitter has been lost a bit in all the hype around his baserunning and defense

i like jayson werth and i hope he posts a .900+ ops every year in wash, but he'll be 32 a couple months after the season opens and history suggests his best years are either behind him (or he's got only a couple more great seasons in the tank.)

nats are trying to sign cliff lee now too

this isn't basketball guys, you can't buy your way into a superteam

don't think anybody is saying that?

it's pretty obvious that rizzo had a mandate to spend some money and looking over their club their only other serious payroll commitment is to zimmerman. in a couple years they could def compete in the nl east with werth as a solid contributor.

and a-rod and pujols and we'll trade our secret third zimmmerman for carlos santana!

How much money the team is making is (nearly) irrelevant, it doesn't mean that its smart business to overpay for players (especially for mid-market teams). Why give someone 100M if you can sign him for 80M? There are like a zillion other, smarter things that could be done with that extra 20M.

this isn't basketball guys, you can't buy your way into a superteam

― ciderpress, Tuesday, December 7, 2010 1:24 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

http://a.espncdn.com/i/magazine/new/jeffrey_loria_trophy.jpg

SONNED

loving how the Nationals are trolling the winter meetings.

i think you were looking for a photo of wayne huizenga

How much money the team is making is (nearly) irrelevant, it doesn't mean that its smart business to overpay for players (especially for mid-market teams). Why give someone 100M if you can sign him for 80M? There are like a zillion other, smarter things that could be done with that extra 20M.

― NoTimeBeforeTime, Tuesday, December 7, 2010 12:23 PM (24 minutes ago)

Kind of feel this line of thought is in line with the Moneyball era, but today... not so sure if I'd OTM it. Washington has been towards the top 5-10 of MLB teams profit valuations iirc. Used to know the link to this data but having some googlability barriers atm.

Not wasting money has nothing to do with Moneyball. The guys who own baseball teams didn't become billionaires by wasting a few tens of millions from time to time because they felt they already had enough. Nobody would expect Werth to say "I don't need 128 million -- 100 million is plenty". Obviously he's going to try to get as much money as he can, and the team should be trying to sign him for whatever his market value is and not a penny more.

but how is "market value" set?

18 mil a year is perfectly reasonable for Werth, but 7 years of it isn't

Makes sense on paper/in an ideal world, but as pointed out above above, heh, this is DC not Boston/NYC. There are many, many, many variables in play for both sides of the negotiations. If Washington played financial hardball they would land no one.

yeah, good point by cad, they are paying him market value!

http://www.millerparkdrunk.com/baseball/milwaukee-brewers-baseball/brewers-get-marcum-from-toronto-for-brett-lawrie-lawrie-revealed-as-tool/

http://www.millerparkdrunk.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Brett-Lawrie-9.jpg

so i got curious and here's an interesting piece of info i missed: apparently j. stark tweeted after werth signed that the nats' offer was so high that boras didn't even bother calling back the other bidders. so the narrative is pretty clear to me--rizzo was under instruction to get the player and get him quickly, drive interest in season tickets and buzz around the team.

the thing about the fa market, particularly this year, is that you're pretty much either in or out. after werth and crawford, there are really no star-level position players available. the nats are only running $60 mil in payroll and desperately need to build interest in the team.

so i struggle with terms like "overpay" and "regret" being thrown around this early. if werth plays at this level for four years, declines but is still ok for two, and sucks for one, while the nats build a decent team that competes in the division and taps into a wealthy market, why would this deal be bad?

That is the polarizing POV that is either obvious or ludicrous.

the argument about werth's quality as a player is one thing, but i really fail to see how werth helps build excitement about the team. plus werth but minus dunn/strasburg they'll still be lucky to get out of last place next year & i fail to see how "jayson werth" brings casual fans to the park (and anyone that pays attention to baseball has surely read the negative reactions to this deal)

that Lawrie info is not good news.

xp well i don't think it's "jayson werth" as much as the amorphous "commitment" that can be demonstrated by going out and getting a name guy.

but even if it is "jayson werth," two things--one, why couldn't werth be a solid regional star, maybe like how miggy tejada was for the orioles, who the fans enjoy watching even if the team blows? and two, if i'm someone living in the nats' market, and i'm making a decision whether or not to buy some seats, "werth + zim" middle of order is, well, at least doubly attractive as "zim plus a bunch of scrubs."

one thing i haven't done is read about how this deal played in the d.c. area, but again, if i'm a casual fan down there, my motivations for going to the game basically revolve around seeing a somewhat, occasionally competitive team. why would i care if keith law thinks it's an overpay?

i'm not sure if after strasburg mania that adding the like fourth best player from the phillies is gonna really drive ticket sales that much higher

the one thing you can say about this deal is that the nats are not a terribly run organization -- they paid up for strasburg & harper, doled out hella bonuses for this past draft and all together don't seem to be taking the route of spending all their money on free agents

anyway, i don't think is a terrible deal in the long run because even if werth has declined by 2012/2013 he'd still be a valuable player on a team that could have like 3 of the best 15 or 20 players in the whole game

they may be banking on werth's remaining good years along with zim entering his prime to be just enough alongside (as well as overlapping with) strasburg's return and harper breaking in? i dunno.

think you're overestimating casual fans tbh--having a couple of "name" players is really good for them

xp well i think they plan on developing the rest of the team too

speaking of the nats, here is some HOT STOVE talk that i want to hear: did someone send nyjer morgan to therapy this off season? because i think nyjer morgan is in need of some therapy

i'm not sure if after strasburg mania that adding the like fourth best player from the phillies is gonna really drive ticket sales that much higher

― gimme schefter (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, December 7, 2010 3:33 PM (6 minutes ago)

what is your metric?

i look forward to the overall emergence of another nl east team to give dr morbs metfits

halladay, utley, arguably hamels or howard

esp with alderson running with the caca mouth. countdown til he clocks his father in law in the face...

are the phillies looking to give the job to dom brown or are they sign someone

i'm not sure if after strasburg mania that adding the like fourth best player from the phillies is gonna really drive ticket sales that much higher

― gimme schefter (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, December 7, 2010 6:33 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark

I'm not sure either, but this is an organization that made a commercial spotlighting the awesomeness of John Lannan.

(It ran throughout 2010.)

andy k summing it up

halladay, utley, arguably hamels or howard

― gimme schefter (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, December 7, 2010 3:42 PM (2 minutes ago)

are you looking at 2010 or....?

maybe instead of "best" i should've said, like the 8th most famous player from the phillies

The Nats also had a series of commercials featuring "fans" recalling the excitement of moments like that one time Emilio Bonifacio stole two consecutive bases.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOYD6TfGmGw

Yes I meant wayne huizenga. Also would argue that wrt this,

""jayson werth," two things--one, why couldn't werth be a solid regional star,"

JW already IS a solid regional star to most people who follow the nationals (out there in teh moonlight...) IMO. They seen him, what, 20 times a year?

also are there Nationals in Eastern Motors commercials?

well right but he would be playing for the nats so things would be different?