The Zing-free Thread Where Mark C Can Ask Everything He Needs to Know About Baseball that Daver Didn't Already Teach Him

And one of your friendly neighborhood ILBB posters will answer (I hope).

I already asked the "guy called Williams who pitched for the Yankees" question on the other thread!

But okay. When a sacrifice fly is hit (and caught), what determines whether the runners can run or can't? Is it the number of outs?

Why don't the runners running to first base try harder? It looks like loads of them could actually make it if they put in a bit of effort.

(thank you Felicity :))

REDEMPTION!

When a sacrifice fly is hit (and caught), what determines whether the runners can run or can't? Is it the number of outs?

W/ less than 2 outs, runners can advance as soon as the out is made -- not sure if it's actually predicated on the umpire's out signal, or simply the fielder making contact w/ the ball. Since a fly ball caught w/ 2 outs would end the half-inning, no one can advance (unless the out's not made). That's why you hear announcers say "runners are off w/ the pitch" when there are 2 outs and a full count on the hitter -- if the out's made, inning's over, but if it's not made, then the runners are free to advance / score as far as the play allows.

Why don't the runners running to first base try harder? It looks like loads of them could actually make it if they put in a bit of effort.

Some players are inveterate loafing slobs that don't give a rat's ass. Some players assume the play's a done deal, and are simply conserving their energy for more important plays (in the field, and on the basepaths). Some just aren't that fast. Some are one or all of these things -- they're usually called "Manny Ramirez." And then there are jagoffs / golden gods like David Eckstein, who hustle to first on a walk.

When a sacrifice fly is hit (and caught), what determines whether the runners can run or can't?

This is also highly dependent on which base the runner's on. Throwing to second base is the easiest throw to the infield from any spot in the outfield, which is why you rarely see a runner advance from first to second on a sac. fly. Likewise, throwing to 3B is harder for the RF and easier for the LF , which is why even slower runners will advance from 2B to 3B on a sac fly hit toward RF.

re: "the guy called williams"

not todd, was it?

I've asked my friend, JQ - I'll let you know what he says.

Thanks Matt and David! One little thing - when the hitter hits, the runners on base will automatically start running, right? But you're saying it only counts if they start running AFTER the ball is caught?

Yes.

If a ball is hit in the air, the runners have to go back and touch the base ("Tag up") and can only start running to the next base after the fielder has caught the ball. If the runner has not tagged up to his base on a fly ball, the fielder can the runner out by throwing the ball back to the base where the runner was before the runner gets there.

That's why, if you're lucky enough to see an OF make a spectacular diving / leaping catch when a runner's on base and it seems like the ball's not going to be caught, you'll see on-base dudes after the catch run like hell back to the base they started at (making sure to retag every base they've passed on their way back) while the defense tries to get the ball back into the infield as quickly as possible.

It's also why, after some sac-flys, you'll see pitchers step off the mound and throw to 3rd before pitching to the next batter -- that move is an appeal to the 3B umpire to determine whether the base runner left the bag before or after the catch was made. If the runner left before the catch, then he's out.

I have a question!

If a defensive player somehow manages to trap a hit fly ball / liner between his body and his glove / hand without the ball touching any part of the playing field, is that an out, or does the ball have to be transfered safely to a glove / hand before the out is registered?

A CATCH is the act of a fielder in getting secure possession in his hand or glove of
a ball in flight and firmly holding it; providing he does not use his cap, protector, pocket or
any other part of his uniform in getting possession. It is not a catch, however, if
simultaneously or immediately following his contact with the ball, he collides with a player,
or with a wall, or if he falls down, and as a result of such collision or falling, drops the ball.
It is not a catch if a fielder touches a fly ball which then hits a member of the offensive team
or an umpire and then is caught by another defensive player. If the fielder has made the
catch and drops the ball while in the act of making a throw following the catch, the ball shall
be adjudged to have been caught. In establishing the validity of the catch, the fielder shall
hold the ball long enough to prove that he has complete control of the ball and that his
release of the ball is voluntary and intentional.

Why don't the runners running to first base try harder? It looks like loads of them could actually make it if they put in a bit of effort.

most will hustle if it's close but these guys have been doing this for decades, they know an out when they see one. it's fucking statistically irrelevant the one time busting-ass down the line will actually help. most dudes are just as likely to blow out a hammy as reach on an error or beat a throw.

they prefer not to

chicago kevin OTM

Re: hustling to first base -- see also every jerkwit that likes to prove their grit by sliding into 1B, thinking that sliding will actually get them to the bag faster (instead of thinking about things like friction & stuff). The special ones slide HEAD-FIRST into the bag.

Really, unless you're Ichiro-fast, or there's a run / game at stake (cf. Tom Berenger in Major League), hustling to first is really just for show. (NB: I might be wrong.)

I have a question: how there always been base coaches? What is the point of the one on first? Are some batters really that dumb?

Also, do the fielders on the bases wear much protection in case they get a set of cleats upside the ankle from the runner when he slides?

What first base coaches do:

- hold onto equipment (elbow pads, shin guards, batting gloves)
- time / note pitcher's move to 1st
- help determine if player should slide back into the bag on fly ball outs to LF/CF if the runner wandered off too far
- share kick-ass chili recipe
- provide on-field symmetry
- keep 1B and ump company during pitching duels
- save lives

"There's 2 outs, so run on everything. You know who's got a really bald head? That Don Zimmer. Huh."

chicago kevin OTM

mark you calendars.

to whoever initially asked the hustle-to-1B question, a lot of times the reason it looks like the runner couldve beat the throw with a little more effort is often because the fielders more or less time it that way, just to be pricks.

lol

Yeah especially they do that with pitchers to tire them out.

FYI Mark C: Such hijinx are reason #77 why I said, on the other thread, that baseball is a game played by 9 players. (Only in the National League, the One True League, do pitchers hit for themselves, as opposed to the "American" League where pitchers can rest while bastard Uruk-Hai children of Mordor hit for them. That is why Dave R would have been unable to answer that question.)

bastard Uruk-Hai children of Mordor

You make Jason Tyner cry!

The designated hitter rule does seem insane, but hey. I'd quite like a designated contract negotiator to do the hard stuff for me in my job while I get all the credit. Any offers?

How often do pitchers throw the ball at the batter on purpose? Is that when they get in big fights (where no-one actually hits each other, they all basically frot as far as I can tell)?

It's not all frottage, sometimes blows are landed.

How often? Depends on who you ask.

Is that when they get in big fights (where no-one actually hits each other, they all basically frot as far as I can tell)

messers ryan and ventura beg to differ.

http://blogs.chron.com/sportsupdate/archives/ryan_ventura.jpg

Depends on who you ask

Ask Tony LaRussa.

Or his sponsor.

http://a7.vox.com/6a00cdf3a098c8cb8f00cd9707cacf4cd5-500pi

reverse angle!
http://assets.espn.go.com/i/page2/photos/040727arod.jpg

Not to turn this into a brawl picture thread, but Kyle Farnsworth lands punches:

http://www.mlb.com/images/2003/06/19/gTWhWoVI.jpg

some frottage going on here:

http://www.seaternal.com/baseball/Images/baseball%20fight.jpg

one of the few times michael barrett made solid contact that year:

http://blogs.timesunion.com/baseball/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/brawl9.jpg

getting punched is never good but it's not always the worst thing that can happen:
http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2008/baseball/mlb/specials/spring_training/2008/03/12/exhibition.roundup.ap/DuncanKickAP2.jpg

stick and move! stick and move!

http://images.townnews.com/nctimes.com/content/articles/2007/06/17/sports/professional/padres/21_11_056_16_07.jpg

ok, i'm done.

No! More!

Hang on, I mean "no, you're not done! Post more fight pics!!"

http://assets.espn.go.com/i/magazine/new/berry_justice.jpg

ok.

fight? orgy? interpretive dance?

http://sawkick.com/wp-content/media/2007/05/baseball-fight.jpg

Wau

action starts around the 50 second mark.

hard to believe grown men in backwards baseball caps and cargo shorts would act like this. also, when the guys in uniforms show up? time to stop.

the youtube thread has some good fights on it.

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Yeah ok talk all that bring that to my city this that. Bring that to MY city L.A and you'd be lucky to make it out alive. 56,000 fans will fucking kill you.

Yeah but Weaver/sweeney classic isn't there anymore. Also no Omar Vizquel/Arthur in the sky with Diamonds fashion brawl.

Xgaygax!p

these guys have been doing this for decades, they know an out when they see one.

unless you're a Pete Rose-caliber dick.

i want to see pedro tossing an old man!

I want a kick-ass Chili Davis recipe!

i want to see pedro tossing an old man!

-- j.q higgins, Wednesday, April 9, 2008 3:44 PM (Wednesday, April 9, 2008 3:44 PM) Bookmark Link

here you go!

http://www.gothamist.com/images/2003_10_zimmer.jpg

http://bp1.blogger.com/_Qz9-wV-eLCI/RxAZhWumavI/AAAAAAAAAJ0/qv1SMo50Q_4/s1600/Martinez%2Bvs%2BZimmer_272x204.jpg

http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2004/11/17/1100706901_5904.jpg

it STILL cracks me up!

the last one is too much

Marichal is also remembered for a notorious incident that occurred on August 22, 1965, in a game played against the Giants' arch-rival, the Los Angeles Dodgers. Batting against Sandy Koufax in the last of the third inning, Marichal felt that Dodger catcher Johnny Roseboro's return throws had flown too close to his head. Words were exchanged, and Roseboro, throwing off his catcher's helmet and mask, rose to continue the argument. Marichal responded by hitting Roseboro's unprotected head with his bat. The benches cleared into a 14-minute brawl, while Giant captain Willie Mays escorted the bleeding Roseboro (who would require 14 stitches) back to the clubhouse.

Christ, that's some NHL shit.

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f325/caek/baseball-brawl.png

oh, man...that pedro series is byoot.

OH FUCK I LOVE THAT PICTURE

holy moley those southside girls...

Who'd be the quickest baseball player over 100 metres?

that picture was my desktop for a year. good times.

the first base coach also guards against the hidden ball trick

Who'd be the quickest baseball player over 100 metres?

Tough question. Jose Reyes of the Mets steals the most bases, but that's in 90 foot increments, not 100 metres. Sometimes they do seem to lag in stamina when rounding third. I don't know, does anyone keep speed stats on inside the park home runs?

I guess I'd go with Carlos Gomez maybe.

most will hustle if it's close but these guys have been doing this for decades, they know an out when they see one. it's fucking statistically irrelevant the one time busting-ass down the line will actually help. most dudes are just as likely to blow out a hammy as reach on an error or beat a throw.

-- chicago kevin

chicago kevin OTM

-- Steve Shasta

A Bonds apologist would say this.

Why would a player get ejected from the game if his shoe falls off while running?

I think Reyes is close to fastest first to third.

Why would a player get ejected from the game if his shoe falls off while running?

For showboating, obviously!

"Who'd be the quickest baseball player over 100 metres?"

Definitely agree on Carlos Gomez, and I'd also argue Ichiro.

Ichiro is fastest from batter's box to 1st.

Ichiro recently said that the only player who is as fast as him is Kaz Matsui.

Have any baseball players played cricket in any meaningful way (in the last 100 years)? Or vice versa?

http://www.littlebrown.co.uk/assets/images/EAN/Large/9780349116662.jpg

(actually a pretty fun book)

I am not Mark C, but I am seeking confirmation of the apparent rule that soft hats are required for all defensive personnel even on cloudy days and that the reason is tradition/because or the great problem of team identification.

i don't think it's always true though olerud http://azdiamondhacks.mlblogs.com/diamondhacks/images/olerud.jpg had extenuating circumstances with the tumor and all

yeah, i'm working on the assumption that manny has the hat on cuz he has to

Why don't batters just step into pitches to take the walk?

(Also: what was the series of funny youtube videos with some guy teaching his players to be stupid and tough, one of which features him recommending batters do precisely this?)

Also, why are the arguments between coaches and umpires where they stand three inches apart with their hands on their hips so ridiculous and stylized? What are they actually saying?

Some of them do, but there is risk of injury, job loss, career-ending etc. considering the speed and movement on major-league pitches.

Hardball Made Easy with Ron Stilanovich, career minor-leaguer.

Tradition? There are some classic Earl Weaver game tossings on Youtube. I think Weaver is considered the all-time master of this art form.

weaver is a golden god, period

caek, you technically have to move out of the way of a pitch to be awarded the base. stepping into it is like blatantly illegal but youll still see batters do something technically illegal whenever they turn their backs to the pitcher after a pitch is thrown - theyre actually expanding the chance the pitch hits them but decreasing the chance it hurts them, & they know it (i think this is totally legit, as do pretty much all umpires ever).

its VERY rare for a pitch that hits a batter to be called a ball, but it does happen

Some of them do, but there is risk of injury, job loss, career-ending etc. considering the speed and movement on major-league pitches.

I would gladly take one, as long as I could wear my cricket armour.

That Earl Weaver video is lol. What a guy!

Thanks deez for the explanation.

I have a follow-up: in the Yankees - Sox game yesterday seven players were hit by pitches but the umpires ruled they were all accidental and no one was tossed. How do they know this? The pitcher does that stylized squaring up thing where they walk down off the mound toward the plate and never apologizes, as far as I can tell. Do they ever apologize?

the umpires do NOT know more than anyone else, & this is often controversial - you basically judge based on a)the situation b) where the pitch was located c) how the pitcher has previously been throwing

d)they never apologize - ever!

i think on the whole the umps often have a premature trigger finger as far as that kind of stuff goes

btw PLEASE check out 'manager's corner' on youtube if you havent - must hear as far as earl is concerned

I have a follow-up: in the Yankees - Sox game yesterday seven players were hit by pitches but the umpires ruled they were all accidental and no one was tossed. How do they know this?

They don't, but no one questions it really. It's not like the batters are TRYING to get hit, I mean at a base level it just hurts to get hit, and with 162 games in a season those little nicks and dings add up.

ya it's a purely judgement call. i don't think i've ever seen it called on a ball that was clearly headed towards the batter, no matter how loopy or slow. there are players though who will twist their bodies (righties to the right) so that they can extend their elbows and get nicked by a ball that wouldn't normally hit them. that's really the only time i've ever seen it called.

btw PLEASE check out 'manager's corner' on youtube if you havent - must hear as far as earl is concerned

holy shit

lol

Doesn't one of the rulez say that if any part of the batter leans over the plate to get hit by a pitch, he's out or something?

he's not out, it's just a ball (or a strike) and no HBP.

i think caek was asking how 7 batters could be hit & no one tossed & neither bench warned - its because pitchers arent always trying to hit batters; flukes happen & that was one of them, the umps called it right. rivera has impeccable command & would never intentionally hit 2 batters in the 9th of a close game, obviously. masterson is a young kid with ridiculous movement on his pitches, mussina doesnt hit batters intentionally ever. a lot of it is context & as others have said personal judgment.

that said batters DO try to get hit, all the time - leadoff men like biggio & vina are classic examples of this.

i think caek was asking how 7 batters could be hit & no one tossed & neither bench warned

yes, thanks for the explanations.

why does the catcher often wear a chest protector (is that what it's called) with a flappy shoulder pad thing on only one side?

like this:

http://www.robbinssports.com/sporting-goods-store/images/Easton-natural-youth-catcher-set.jpg

The wing (which is almost always detachable) is there to protect the catcher's throwing arm.

can anyone explain what arbitration is and how it works

Well I'm not sure exactly but I think basically it boils down to Arbitration 101

by Jack McDowell, Yahoo! Sports
January 20, 2004




It's time for another bout of the arbitration blues, but what does this system really mean? In simple terms, arbitration establishes a system in which salaries from top to bottom are reviewed and adjusted to mirror those of equal players.

We constantly hear that arbitration and free agency allow the rich to get richer and the poor to remain non-competitive in baseball.

Free agency and arbitration get blamed for things that really don't exist. The baseball economic system allows teams to address their needs on a yearly basis and evaluate players for a long time before having to commit to them.

In the end, arbitration creates a system of checks and balances and breeds parity.

ADVERTISEMENT

Baseball salaries more clearly reflect a player's standing among other players because after three years baseball does a direct statistical comparison with one's peers in front of a non-partial arbitrator. The system itself forces owners to come to the table with realistic one-year offers that reflect a player's fair market value.

Owners may complain about the arbitration system, but there isn't a better system in place for owners in professional sports today. After drafting a player from either high school or college, a baseball team gets to decide if or when a player is ready for the majors. The team holds a player's rights for a whopping six years in the minor leagues. The system assures that when a player reaches the majors, the organization has had ample time to evaluate the player's capabilities and potential.

Now we all have seen the cases of minor league stars falling on their faces in the big leagues. Well, ownership is covered there as well. A player is not eligible for arbitration for three years, and that turns into four years if the team strategically calls a player up in June rather than having him break spring training with the club.

A club can pay that player anything it wants (above the minimum salary) for those three or four years. Then, if the club decides it doesn't want to pay the jump in salary that arbitration might demand, it can non-tender a contract to that player and look elsewhere. The worst-case scenario for a club is to take a player to arbitration and be on the hook for only one year at market value.

If you haven't figured out whether or not you will move forward with that player by then, then you don't deserve to own a team.

Before you start wondering why the owners hold all the cards, consider the big picture for players and the sport of baseball.

Since 1980, 21 franchises have played in the World Series (and 16 have won). Only two teams have gone more than three times. During that same time in the NBA, 15 teams have made the finals and only seven have won. Five teams have gone at least four times. The Lakers went nine out of 12 years (and that was before they won three straight from 2000-02). Chicago won six in an eight-year span. I think you get the picture.

The numbers speak for themselves.

I mean, feel free to argue, that's just my take on it.

Hi guys,

Why are their 14 teams in the AL and 16 in the NL? Aren't the AL West and the NL Central unfair leagues since they have 4 and 6 teams in them respectively? If Texas can be in the NL West, why can't, say, Houston (currently in the NL Central) be in the AL West?

Odd number of teams in leagues = one team always not playing.

ok now someone explain sandwich pix

D'Angelo Steak Bomb is EVIL

Sandwich picks are picks added between the first and second rounds based on free agent movement. Quick version is that when a team loses a Type A free agent they get the team that signs that player's first round pick (unless it's a top-15 pick, i.e. the signing team sucked the year before) and a sandwich pick, or two sandwich picks (in the exception mentioned above). One thing I don't know is how the order of sandwich picks is determined.

If Texas can be in the NL West, why can't, say, Houston (currently in the NL Central) be in the AL West?

non-baseball answer: DFW is at least marginally more Western than Houston

http://www.hipark.austin.isd.tenet.edu/grade4/guimbarda/townes_files/slide0001_image004.gif
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?sec=travel&res=980CEEDA1538F937A3575AC0A965948260

tho by that approach, arguably Kansas City should be in the West as well

they should move KC to the AL West and send Houston to the AL Central

Aren't the AL West and the NL Central unfair leagues since they have 4 and 6 teams in them respectively?

Yes, this is absolutely true.

so basically you get free picks for NOT resigning a guy? that's retarded as hell!

so basically you get free picks for NOT resigning a guy?

Only if the player declines arbitration.

And the type of pick you get back -- that's determined by some arbitrary retardo ranking system based on a player's performance the two years prior, right? I remember hearing that someone's DL stint (a no-brainer Type A FA) cost the team because his 2-year stats averages were sub-par, and they only got Type B compensation in return?

and they base the type a-b on a system Elias came up with that weights rbis and runs a lot more highly than we would

Ah, Elias.

Also, to be fair, NFL teams receive compensatory picks for lost free agents too. They tend to be later in the draft, but I'd wager that your average NFL 3th-rounder (or even 6th-rounder) is more likely to help a team than an MLB first-round sandwich guy.

If Texas can be in the NL West, why can't, say, Houston (currently in the NL Central) be in the AL West?

At least it's better than the days when Atlanta was in the AL West (1969-93). (Ha, at one point when I was in junior high, the geographical distribution was so fucked up in the NFL that I wrote a letter to Paul Tagliabue about it.)

falcons used to be in the nfc west too, playing the niners and rams every year!

Why are some pitchers starters and some pitchers relievers and do they ever switch bach and forth between the roles?

Usually it has to do with talent. The goal of player development is to produce starting pitchers, and guys who don't quite have what it takes to start (in terms of command, pitch selection, etc.) are eventually profiled as relievers.

Also high-velocity max-effort types are often profiled as closers, though many observers would prefer that they learn to pace themselves and try to start.

You can definitely switch--some pitchers switch back and forth multiple times. John Smoltz was an excellent starter and an excellent closer, then became a starter again. Justin Deuscherer (sp?) was a setup reliever until this year--apparently he had wanted to start and looks to be quite good at it. The only caveat is that a reliever switching to starter midyear is going to have to be stretched out--have his pitch counts increased gradually over a few weeks.

The better ones are starters.

Yes, they do, all the time. When a starter becomes a reliever it is generally considered a demotion or rehabilitation.

A few of the many examples of pitchers that switched back and forth are Kerry Wood (switched from starter to reliever), Ryan Dempster (switched from starter to reliever to starter again) and John Smoltz (switched from starter to reliever to starter).

Also, a starter may be used as a reliever in certain Very Big Game Situations. Randy Johnson was used as a relief pitcher in the seventh game of the 2001 World Series.

xpost yay Smoltz

Very interesting. How much rest do starters need between games, and do relievers need rest too?

The "bullpen" refers only to the relievers? or to the whole pitching staff?

What is considered an average to good period/amount of innings for the starter to last?

Do other teams play musical pitchers as much as the Mets do?

At least 4 days' rest, preferably more. Starting a pitcher on 3 days rest is sometimes done but it is considered a drastic move.

Relievers need rest. They are often made to warm up without being used in the game. Sometimes they need rest from the warming up.

The bullpen is only the relievers.

5 is average, 6 or more are good.

Yes.

How much rest do starters need between games, and do relievers need rest too?

"depends." some dudes are just born with a rubber arm (David Wells)and could pitch every 4th day if the team didn't have a 5-man rotation. Some dudes have easy deliveries/low velocity pitches (Wakefield and any other known knuckleballer). Some guys are high pitch count, high strikeout, max effort guys who need the extra day (uhhh... Schilling, historically...). The 5-man rotation is only about 20 years old or so.

"The "bullpen" refers only to the relievers? or to the whole pitching staff?"

The bullpen is a place. The pitchers in it are in the bullpen.

"Do other teams play musical pitchers as much as the Mets do?"

cf. LaRussa, Tony.

"What is considered an average to good period/amount of innings for the starter to last?"

"ree encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search

In baseball statistics, a quality start is awarded to a starting pitcher who completes at least six innings and permits no more than three earned runs.

The quality start was developed by sportswriter John Lowe in 1985 while writing for the Philadelphia Inquirer.[1] The statistic is preferred by sabermetricians [this is bullshit --JtM] to that of winning percentage (the number of wins garnered by a pitcher as a fraction of his total decisions) insofar as it acts independently of some factors beyond a pitcher's control such as fielding errors, blown saves, and poor run support. ESPN.com terms a loss suffered by a pitcher in a quality start as a tough loss and a win earned by a pitcher in a non-quality start a cheap win.[2]"

Are all relievers supposed to be closers? Or are some relievers just supposed to go in for a bit?

How rare is it to pitch a complete game? (yay Pelfrey)

Is there a handy guide I should read? I'm looking at the MLB site now.

all relievers wish they were closers.
or failing that a starter.
some are "set-up" guys who pitch the inning before the closer. then you have lefty specialists and usually a guy who can throw maybe 3 or 4 innings if a starter were to leave the game early.

unless your name is Roy Halladay it's getting rarer and rarer.

dunno, sorry

Nb: A starting pitcher can only win a game if he pitches at least five innings, though a reliever can be credited with a victory on one pitch (or no pitches in some cases).

The "bullpen" refers only to the relievers? or to the whole pitching staff?

In some extreme cases, a pitcher who normally starts games -- and who has been scheduled to have a "bullpen session" (basically practice for starters) on that day -- will be called upon in the middle of the game, or more accurately, near the end of an inordinately long extra-innings game wherein the rest of the relievers (or Jose Canseco) have already been exhausted or are otherwise unavailable. Another situation where a starter might enter the middle game is after a prolonged stoppage in play (e.g. a rain delay) -- the manager won't want to tax that game's starter by having him warm up, pitch, then cool down during the delay, and then warm up to pitch again. (Only the MIGHTY TIM LINCECUM has pitched on both sides of a rain delay in recent memory.) As a result, a usually-a-starter will warm up in a bullpen and pitch the bulk of the remaining game.

What is considered an average to good period/amount of innings for the starter to last?

Seven years and $126 million.

xpost Thermo bring on the technical term!!! Id est, the lefty specialist is called the LOOGY (Lefty One Out GuY).

Ha, I never thought about it but I suppose Jimmy's right. Technically, the bullpen is the pen itself and "bullpen" is metonymy for the relief pitchers who sit and warm up in there.

For a handy guide, you could browse Bill James' Historical Baseball Abstract. That's a fun book.

hi i have a question about saves:

say a reliever comes in to start the 9th inning with an 8 to 4 lead. he allows two home runs, a few more baserunners, but eventually gets the last three outs. is he credited with the save even though he put himself in that situation?

did anyone else lol @ VPs "are all relievers closers?" question (not because it was dumb but because its actually a really reasonable for a newbie mets fan to ask)

say a reliever comes in to start the 9th inning with an 8 to 4 lead. he allows two home runs, a few more baserunners, but eventually gets the last three outs. is he credited with the save even though he put himself in that situation?

From THE RULES OF SCORING:

10.19 SAVES FOR RELIEF PITCHERS

A save is a statistic credited to a relief pitcher, as set forth in this Rule 10.19.

The official scorer shall credit a pitcher with a save when such pitcher meets all four of the following conditions:

(a) He is the finishing pitcher in a game won by his team;
(b) He is not the winning pitcher;
(c) He is credited with at least 1/3rd of an inning pitched; and
(d) He satisfies one of the following conditions:

(1) He enters the game with a lead of no more than three runs and pitches for at least one inning;
(2) He enters the game, regardless of the count, with the potential tying run either on base, or at bat or on deck (that is, the potential tying run is either already on base or is one of the first two batters he faces); or
(3) He pitches for at least three innings.

so, no

thanks!

(Only the MIGHTY TIM LINCECUM has pitched on both sides of a rain delay in recent memory.)

there was that kid that girardi murdered in Florida by having him go back out after 3 hours or whatever.

(1) He enters the game with a lead of no more than three runs and pitches for at least one inning;

actually, this is as many as four runs with (a) runner(s) on 2nd and/or 3rd.

hi dere Steve:

(2) He enters the game, regardless of the count, with the potential tying run either on base, or at bat or on deck (that is, the potential tying run is either already on base or is one of the first two batters he faces)

Back to easy questions! How many active players are on a team? Is there a set make-up of number of pitchers versus field players? When you are disabled (I forget the term) that lasts for 15 days? Is there a rule about how often you can be on the disabled list? Teams can call up players from the minors at will?

*25
*no, but the split used to be around 9 pitchers to 14 non- in the '70s, and now can be as nutso as 13 vs 12. (due to pitcher 'specialization')
* there are different disabled lists, 15, 60, and ...?
*not exactly, but it's more that certain players can't be sent down under certain circumstances.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/s/transanctionsprimer.html

^^^^^ TRANSACTIONS PRIMER

No Dave. I watched Gagne get a save with a four run lead and a man on second. That was not the tying run at the plate by any long shot.

how many batterz did he face?

I'll be back with that answer in a couple hours. Stay tuned!

:\

* there are different disabled lists, 15, 60, and ...?

There's also the bereavement list, but that's getting into the nitty gritty.

Thanks baseball studs! So when Castillo refused to be activated, he was no longer on the disabled list, but simply elected not play? When you are on the disabled list, do you have to serve all 15 days? And what is Day-to-Day, besides what it sounds like? How do you get on that?

So I have learned from the ESPN site that there are 25 active players, but 40 total on the team roster. Only the 60-day disabled don't count on the 40-total team. Can you pull up kids from any minor, or does it have to be the top tier minor?

When you are on the disabled list, do you have to serve all 15 days?

Yes.

And what is Day-to-Day, besides what it sounds like?

Nothing more.

How do you get on that?

Jock itch.

Can you pull up kids from any minor, or does it have to be the top tier minor?

Any level of minor. There are contract purchasing rules and the 40 man max to deal with, but so long as a kid can play at the ML level he can. Who was it who played 0 days of minor league baseball? George Brett?

When you are on the disabled list, do you have to serve all 15 days?

Yes.

Not disagreeing but say a player has been on the bench for 3 days (with a "day to day" injury) with no pinch-hit or pinch-run or defensive substitution appearances, the GM can place that player on the DL retroactive to the last appearance.

I can't find that game. Fuck.

what is the theoretical penalty for a mound conference taking too long? a ball?

probably an ejection, actually

Theoretically, forfeit:

4.15
A game may be forfeited to the opposing team when a team --
(a) Fails to appear upon the field, or being upon the field, refuses to start play within five minutes after the umpire has called “Play” at the appointed hour for beginning the game, unless such delayed appearance is, in the umpire’s judgment, unavoidable;
(b) Employs tactics palpably designed to delay or shorten the game;

mike hargrove to thread

The official scorer can credit a pitcher with a save if circumstances warrant, overriding the rules.

Really? Does that ever happen?

I don't think I've ever seen it happen personally, but it could happen.

There is some leeway for the official scorer in the case of a three-inning save. If the reliever is judged to have pitched ineffectively the scorer can decide not to award the save.

Wes Littleton got a save in a 30-3 game:
http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/2007/B08221BAL2007.htm

Here's an example of getting a save when entering with a 4-run lead:
http://retrosheet.org/boxesetc/1970/B04250SFN1970.htm

Who was it who played 0 days of minor league baseball? George Brett?

here's a list.

Thanks, you dudes are killing it with the research tonight. Minor LOL at X Nady on that list.

pete incavigilia was surprising. maybe he could've used a little seasoning. or maybe he never would have made the majors.

lol Jim Abbott...

actually, that list is "players who went directly to the major leagues", nady made his pro debut in the majors then subsequently spent extensive time in the minors.

abbot wasn't bad! he could outpitch most with one hand tied behi- oh wait.

Yeah, still just kind of funny that X was a hot enough commodity to sign to a major league contract once upon a time.

Kind of pointless to have all the Japanese players on there....

I saw Abbott pitch the first big-league game I went to -- shutout against the Red Sox at Fenway.

el tiante was on the hill for the bosox in my first mlb game.

not a rules question but can someone find what is the most LOB by one player in a game?

Yesterday the Cubs left 35 runners on base in a twelve inning game. What is the record for most runners left on base in a nine inning game? Also, record for any game?

By pdjurisic Asked Apr 8 2008 8:54AM

First Answer
by Lawman19611 on Apr 26, 2008 at 9:28 pm Permalink

The most in a nine inning game is 20 left on base . It was set by the New York Yankees vs Boston (09-21-1956 ). Hard to believe , but most left on base in a season was set by the 1976 Cincinnati Reds (1,328), who won the World Series that year !

You gotta get 'em on base to leave 'em there?

^ that should be embroidered on the J's jerseys.

I think a player leaving men on base is too stupid a stat to have a very long history.

(by which I mean, it doesn't take into account what bases, how many outs, the score, the circumstances, the strategy, etc. All runners need to be knocked in RIGHT NOW BY YOU, ALEX RODRIGUEZ)

If Alex spent more time in the batting cage, and less time frosting his tips...

or glossing his lips?

he's hitting .238 in August.

Paradoxically, more people will come to A-Rod's defense than they would to any other player who had that horrible game.