Reveal Your Uncool Conservative Beliefs Here

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-wexS7X3I1SA/U5C_kKnFDHI/AAAAAAAADtM/7MFdNTL4yEA/s1600/Peter+O

Executions serve an important role in society.

Bring back sumptuary laws.

There are too many lazy people.

Kill the weak.

War is an honorable pasttime

People who are against spanking children don't understand the evil inherent in human nature.

this got dark v quickly

The Western literary canon has substantial value.

Free verse poetry is less interesting than formal poetry.

Photography is a lesser art and should not be celebrated outside facebook pages.

No good literature has been produced since WW2.

fewer and fewer schools are teaching cursive these days, and that's a real shame

mainstream rap has had a net negative influence on the quality of American chartpop

comics may or may not be a serious art form, but graphic novels really don't belong on 'greatest novels of all time' lists

most people in this world are feebs/children/psychopaths who will revert to arson/scalping/pillaging the moment they're freed from the strictures of organized religion. evangelical atheism is one of the greatest threats to the stability of western civilization, and the world will not be safe until atheism has been scaled down to a Masonic/Rosicrucian-style secret society with a maximum global membership of ≈100,000 carefully vetted rationalist supermen

if i can make it to a church before capture i should be given sanctuary

british imperialism was better than most of the alternatives

individualism is in many respects v good

i've got nothing else i can think of, you people are monsters tbh

'cept unregistered maybe, can get behind the secret atheism bit

brown sugar runs rings around superfoods as a topping for oatmeal.

i have brooks brothers glasses

Compulsory parade attendance.

yoga is bullshit

military technology is pretty cool

I am this guy IRL

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41Gb%2B7TzrEL._SX327_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

it is obnoxious for boys under the age of 13 to have long hair, and an indication that their parents are overindulgent.

today, while at the supermarket, I saw a boy of no more than 10 with a mohawk and felt genuinely incensed.

i like to open a door for a lady

lol, there is definitely this thing that happens in Brooklyn where I see certain longhaired pre-teens and I can just *tell* that they have skateboard dads who encourage them to have it, like it's not even rebellious but actually DL striving by the parents.

I like women.

I don't append "cis" to the male box that I check off on every form.

Cannot abide visible bra straps, even when fashionable

Dogs are outside pets.

Tattoos.

an individual's actions does have something to do w/ their success

not all cultures are equally wonderful and some are bad enough that they should be discouraged

life could be hellish and for many ppl it is so if yours isn't some gratitude is probably in order

nb 1 + 3 might not be internally consistent

Femmephobia is way less useful as a critical concept than misogyny

Self-care is necessary but not thereby radically oppositional

Couching leftist projects in terms of resistance to neoliberalism rather than to capitalism risks a lot of reformist implications

(Not that femmephobia can't be useful in order to talk about, say, biases in specific queer spaces, but it can mystify the conditions that butch and gnc women actually face if applied too generally.)

watching grown adults discussing rae sremmurd like it was literature is to behold the end of art

that's not a "reveal" per se

I forgot imago had some sort of Sremm beef. Why so much hate?

Marxism is dumb and bad.

Capitalist liberal democracy is the end point of Western civilization, it will never be superseded by a higher/better form of social organization, will only end through collapse.

Men should not have facial hair and people in general should not have messy hair.

xps i don't recall saying that you can hear a soulja boy's influence on chaucer

lol "a soulja boy." the soulja boy's tale

currently at peak hair and beard, this will probably only end by collapse too tbh

sremm beef = just watch their latest video, 'set the roof' and listen to the lyrics, they're just the worst people in earth, i fucking despise literally everything they're doing, it isn't even abrasive in an interesting way

lol crut, one for old-skool ilx that

hir wese y manne ful cranke, tellynge

Femmephobia is way less useful as a critical concept than misogyny

Self-care is necessary but not thereby radically oppositional

Couching leftist projects in terms of resistance to neoliberalism rather than to capitalism risks a lot of reformist implications

― one way street, Thursday, August 4, 2016 10:52 PM (1 week ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink]

looooool

women's sports are, in general, less exciting versions of men's sports

http://allproudamericans.com/paimages/does-duck-and-cover-really-work.jpg

I'll watch women's tennis from time to time but yeah

There are too many things that I massively disagree with posted here for it to be worth a fight on any one of them. I'm just wondering why the 'loool' at ows? Because those aren't really conservative standpoints? They kind of are in comparison to a lot of current radical discourse (I agree with all of them, though not entirely with the latter, but again, I kind of feel this thread is meant to be a dumping ground not a discussion ground).

women's sports are, in general, less exciting versions of men's sports

― have you ever even read The Drudge Report? Have you gone on Stormfron (k3vin k.), Wednesday, August 17, 2016 10:52 AM (14 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

sexual dimorphism of humans def means that a lot of sports are more exciting to watch when men are playing them but otoh a lot of women's sports are less commercialized and therefore less likely to suffer from rampant PED use endemic to men's sports and therefore likely to be more of a clean competition

also crowds at woman's sports tend to be less shitty

(emil.y i was laughing at the extreme relativity necessary to consider those "conservative opinions." i assumed they were posted tongue in cheek so thought i was laughing along with one way street, not at them, and wasn't critiquing the positions themselves)

Can't speak for sciatica but I lol'ed at ows' post bc it requires some, like, wicked fractal definition of conservatism within the queer anticapotalist left. but I get how all those opinions could be uncool rn

liberalism as many of my friends practice it is like a shitty religion that i want no part of.

they think of other people as needing to be saved, by them.
they make penance with speech acts, not real action.
they live their lives in constant guilt.
they live in cities that are only differentiated from other cities by being huge destinations for wealth, then they disavow that wealth while continuing to partake in the lifestyle it provides.
they blame rich people for all the evils of the world while ignoring that they are the 1%.
they prescribe how other people should be living their own lives.
they say things that have no meaning other than to reveal to others that they are members in this very sensitive club of good people.
it's nothing but performative.

Lol got xp'd

I must admit I like Republican President Dwight D. "Ike" Eisenhower. But chances are, you also like Ike. Maybe everybody likes Ike.

xps to sciatica and flopson - yeah, both of those reasons are basically fair enough. I think I inhabit so many circles where these are topics for fierce debate that I took it w/ a completely straight face!

watching grown adults discussing rae sremmurd like it was literature is to behold the end of art

― imago,

links?

I must admit I like Republican President Dwight D. "Ike" Eisenhower. But chances are, you also like Ike. Maybe everybody likes Ike.

― Philip Nunez,

best Cold War president if you look past his championing of covert ops

just watch their latest video, 'set the roof' and listen to the lyrics, they're just the worst people in earth, i fucking despise literally everything they're doing

Lj on rap always sounds like thinly veiled racist uncle 'i like blk ppl...who pull up their pants' lol

There was some self-directed irony in my post (like, as a queer trans woman and a marxist, I realize I occupy a different milieu than some of you), but I do actually hold the positions in it, and they're generally unpopular in radical circles; but as e.mily said, this thread seems "like a dumping ground not a discussion ground," so I'll stay out of the rae sremmurd discourse.

*emil.y, I mean

if hating on vicious misogyny, shit beats and two little soi-disant alpha male fuckers is racist then

never listened to rae sremmurd but i see his/her/their name everywhere

just read the lyrics to set the off and stopped here:

Now let's fill up her head and let's see if she chokes

it's fashionable to call anything (thinly veiled) racism these days (oh my conservative opinion i guess)

Bill O'Reilly also quotes lyrics as if they made sense removed from arrangements.

if hating on vicious misogyny, shit beats and two little soi-disant alpha male fuckers is racist then

― imago,

you just wrote hating "on."

if you are comparing me to bill o reilly you should say so instead of hinting at it

I think I did!

[Pre-Hook: Swae Lee]
Flash her with cash, had to spazz on the waiter
She fucked up my order three times in a row, woah
I'm good on gas, I just filled up my tank
Now let's fill up her head and let's see if she chokes

so the double entendre is not done on purpose i guess is what you're saying

i don't actually think ur racist lj you just an fyi you sound like coded white supremacist

I think I did!

― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, August 17, 2016 7:46 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

and no, you didn't

yeah I quite like rap and rap culture so I appropriate its vernacular sometimes. doesn't mean I don't detest some of its practitioners though

and they're not as bad as anthony kiedis I guess

I see you flopson, I'm better about this shot these days but sremm are p much in the sweet spot of do not get

yeah idk they're like a fabulous marriage of Descendants and Kool Keith. They get away with their snottiness and for the moment they don't sound anomic or evil. But they can't keep it up forever and I can imagine hating them like The Weeknd and late Kanye.

doesn't mean I don't detest some of its practitioners though

― imago, Wednesday, August 17, 2016 7:50 PM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is the thing

people take a band you don't like and make a lot of unwarranted generalizations about you

theres tonnes of good hip hop and rap that reads different than rae sremmurd

nah it's all good -- we're just zingin' late afternoon

zingin on hump day

ugh

s'all good

let's get back on topic

courses aimed at bright/curious state-schooled kids, such as those I help to run a few times a year, are not elitist

I think my uncool conservative belief is on a parallel with LJ's statement there -- I think drawing a line dividing quality work from mass market pulp and calling one side "literature" has its place

the line moves all the time, though, and things jump back and forth

spelling your band name backwards is straightup stupid

They get away with their snottiness and for the moment they don't sound anomic or evil. But they can't keep it up forever

This was basically my take on Odd Future when they first came out, but weren't they actually kids at the time whereas Rae Sremmurd are like proper adults? I like RS musically, but honestly I haven't really paid much attention to their lyrics, so... eh. I kind of don't want to go down that route but just imagine I wrote an incredibly long and interesting post about the conflicts and intertwinement of ingroup lexical production, culture, Cannibal Corpse and exclusion/alienation of marginalised groups. Seriously, this hypothetical post was the most brilliant and incisive thing you've ever read about lyrics and it's changed your worldview forever.

(sorry for continuing to turn this thread into 'Rae Sremmurd: Classic or Dud')

Fair enough. Cannibal Corpse have shit beats too though

rock has a rich and deep history of making garbage music (another uncool conservative opinion!)

the internet can't accommodate both privacy and anonymity, and given a choice between the two i pick privacy

it will never be ok with me when people use "unique" to mean "uncommon"

Marxism is dumb and bad.

Capitalist liberal democracy is the end point of Western civilization, it will never be superseded by a higher/better form of social organization, will only end through collapse.

Men should not have facial hair and people in general should not have messy hair.

― ælərdaɪs (jim in vancouver), Wednesday, August 17, 2016 12:37 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

You know the Marxist view *is* that Capitalism will collapse, right?

permitting female facial hair is a nice lacuna in jim's conservatism there, rebounds to his credit

xp. I am very familiar with Marxism. This is probably the problem! Grew up in a house filled with books on Marxist theory. Literally was at a table with friends of my parents and an uncle who are all Trotskyists a week ago.

just need to repost this

nah it's all good -- we're just zingin' late afternoon

― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, August 17, 2016 7:00 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

wasn't the marxist view that capitalism collapses after we have 3D printers that really work, and don't just make smelly, knobby statues of webcomic characters?

nah that's gene roddenberry, easily confused

they blame rich people for all the evils of the world while ignoring that they are the 1%.

never realized that liberals are 1% of the population

I think you need like $420K household income to be in the top 1% in the US. Maybe sleeping bag has a lot of rich liberal friends, but I doubt it.

global 1% I MEANT

barb is overrated

that is my uncool conservative belief

Maybe sleeping bag has a lot of rich liberal friends, but I doubt it.
― socka flocka-jones (man alive), Wednesday, August 17, 2016 2:47 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

What does this even mean, I grew up in south fl and many of my friends moved to new York, San Fran, Boston, so... Yes? Arent u a lawyer in NYC? Guessing u do too?

I grew up in south fl

really?!

(maybe I asked you already)

Isn't like half of the United States in the global 1%? And also isn't that term kind of meaningless without accounting for cost of living?

I am a lawyer in NYC and my household does not earn anything close to $420K and neither do most of my friends afaik.

Broward bb

Xp 'isn't half the US...' yes that is my point!

So basically almost no one in the US has the right to have anything to say about poverty or class because they're not living off potatoes?

I think that was my uncool belief stated upthread.

They don't have the right to prescribe solutions for other ppl that they themselves don't/wouldn't abide by, is more how I see it

Like if yr willing to make excuses for not being more generous to other ppl bc 'cost of living' isn't that the same as saying I can't give u a raise bc 'cost of operating the thing that provides yr (and many other ppls) living'?

what are you talking about dude

Doesn't concern u, don't worry about it.

global 1% I MEANT

no the math still doesn't work out that way sorry

It seems kind of obvious that "the rich" in any kind of leftist critique means capitalists, not people earning $34,000 and therefore materially better off than the world's extreme poor. It also seems obvious that you can still criticize a system even if there is no way to avoid being part of it. IDK why I am bothering with this though.

Sorry for getting too real conservative for the joke conservative thread, carry on. Men's sports! rap =cRap ! Lol

IDK why I am bothering with this though

indeed

messageboards and mobile devices have turned people into antisocial narcissists

also, zombies

did you know that message boards aren't actually that popular anymore?

yeah, but the damage is done, see the last 9000 threads.

how do you manage to stay unaffected given all the time you've spent on here Morbs?

messageboards and mobile devices have turned people into antisocial narcissists

is this some kind of confession

first of all, i interpreted this thread as a safe space to air unpopular opinions without some smartass jumping down yr throat, so ease off sleepi or no one else will give up the goods

second of all, even a remotely sympathetic reading of sleepingbags og post would make it clear he's not talking about anyone living in america and making 34,000$, ya dick. gonna copy paste it again:

liberalism as many of my friends practice it is like a shitty religion that i want no part of.

they think of other people as needing to be saved, by them.
they make penance with speech acts, not real action.
they live their lives in constant guilt.
they live in cities that are only differentiated from other cities by being huge destinations for wealth, then they disavow that wealth while continuing to partake in the lifestyle it provides.
they blame rich people for all the evils of the world while ignoring that they are the 1%.
they prescribe how other people should be living their own lives.
they say things that have no meaning other than to reveal to others that they are members in this very sensitive club of good people.
it's nothing but performative.

― yolo mostly (sleepingbag), Wednesday, August 17, 2016 2:15 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

are people like that really so alien to you, man alive? i feel like i see you complain about this shit all the time

did you know that message boards aren't actually that popular anymore?

― ælərdaɪs (jim in vancouver), Wednesday, 17 August 2016 21:21 (11 minutes ago) Permalink

This really true? I thought things had just kind of migrated to reddit.

I don't think many people use ilx style message boards, or at least %-of-the-internet-doing-this is lower, the total amount out there is still probably pretty high. but fb groups and reddit boards aren't that much different, just worse for extended conversations.

xp. oh yeah I guess reddit is a messageboard :(

but like younger people i talk to just seem to use snapchat, whatsapp, tumblr, twitter, instagram, etc.

i hate myself; if you ppl were the slightest bit observant you'd have learned that by now.

but you're not.

i also love myself

messageboards and mobile devices have turned people into antisocial narcissists

is this some kind of confession

...because with zero mobile devices, i'm still half the cretin Shakey is.

I only hold cool conservative beliefs

i've met the people sleepingbag has described in los angeles quite often, except that i didn't know if they were part of the 1%, because i was not privy to such info

thing with arguments in general and ilxors is that if you quantify something -- even done offhandedly -- they will jump on you to try to prove it and will put it in a different context if they don't agree with you

it'd be cool if we didn't agree and would still be like 'oh ya we can agree to disagree but have you heard that new album by miley cyrus'

vegans who use cocaine are some of the worst hypocrites

I only hold cool conservative beliefs

― poor fiddy-less albion (darraghmac), Wednesday, 17 August 2016

I expect less routine aloofness out of you.

which uncool conservative beliefs does dmac not hold? is more the question

lol otm

vegans who use cocaine are some of the worst hypocrites

― sarahell

what animal products are used in cocaine?

your mom

A poll we can all agree on

Morbs/ btw i vote lefter than most of u everything else is yknow good for u /morbs

reveal how lefty you are here thread is elsewhere

Heh well of all the ilxors i didnt expect to be swayed by morbstags huh

i think violent media affects the viewer's relationship to violence

vegans who use cocaine are some of the worst hypocrites

― sarahell, Wednesday, August 17, 2016 5:25 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^^^^^

tho this doesn't strike me as really all that...conservative

mine would probably be something something using social/gov't resources for conserving wilderness is a good thing something something

weird coalition of trump and ghost of rob ford high-fiving moral upper hands by endorsing locally sourced farm-to-table cocaine

guys just literally dont ever do cocaine unless you are comfortable with the fact that ppl's heads got cut off in order for you to talk too loud at a party about your stupid ideas

yeah but they were humans and have original sin, animals have no sin

that's speciesist https://forums.nexusmods.com/public/style_emoticons/dark/armscrossed.gif

Meritocracy is a fake dream and means testing matters

I don't know how to reconcile those ideas though

meritocracy is a funny fake idea like utopia and both mean nowhere

abortion makes me sad

i mean I think it should be legal for sure but it makes me sad and I think we should invest more in preventing it

I've been a part of enough lefty activist communities to have met like extreme pro-abortion fanatics and tbh they weird me out

lol, known more than a few ~comfortable radicals~ who have ranted about oppression or w/ever while high on cocaine. but yeah, don't think getting irked by that hypocrisy is a conservative stand point.

Pot is addictive and wrecks your motivation.

Vegetarianism "for ethical reasons" is ill-informed

Schools should administer discipline when necessary (though never ever physical/abusive)

concerts should never go past 11 pm

otm

government subsidized insurance should not pay for homeopathic bullshit

society should reintroduce the "moron" and "imbecile" classifications and people classified as such should not be allowed to vote

dang sarahell you are really going ~in~

I will probably enjoy long term capital gains tax if I ever have the opportunity to enjoy it.

Insurance should always be high deductible with the primary goal of preventing a life ruining financial disaster resulting from a mistake.

Concerts should never go past 10pm

A deck of playing cards is better than most new boardgames

Benny was the protagonist in Rent

most opinions should not be arrived at, you aren't that smart and you aren't that tasteful

you shouldn't be able to graduate college without passing a class called Shutting the Fuck Up About Things Most of the Time

*seminar

These are good

i don't actually know any cocaine vegans. in indiana we just have smack conservatives.

concerts should actually start on time.

Qualx otm. In fact one place I'm pretty conservative is how education should be done. You don't get to participate in a seminar-style discussion where you spray your uninformed opinion all over everything without some base level of knowledge. Start by shutting the fuck up, doing the reading, and talk because you have genuine questions about what the text or the professor is saying. Also some level of memorization and understanding of dates is necessary to learning most humanities subjects. And advanced interpretive processes found in critical theory and such are just that, advanced, and you should learn to close read a text in a more formalistic way before you approach any of that stuff.

is epistemic humility really a conservative belief? i guess small-c conservative but i consider it a liberal value - to acknowledge that there is much we don't know or understand is to acknowledge that the status quo may be flawed.

I mean my posts were less about conservatism and more just directed at this thread lol

haha

not to make a statement in general but I have come to really resent that I went to a research university -- not a GOOD one, but one that prides itself very loudly on being 'a research university' -- and I managed an english degree without ever once being asked to actually do any research in an english class.

not against humanities degrees but against the dominance of studying philosophies that don't place value in research and context outside of the context of a dumb 20 year old's dumb brain

research university = the university does resesarch. It has nothing to do necessarily with what undergrads learn.

the Democratic Party would be in biiiiiig trouble if they didnt cater to extreme pro-abortion fanatics

people should pay to go to university, and less people should go to university

The most important skills you can develop are those that will be useful in a doomsday apocalyptic scenario.

how could you possibly know what those would be without knowing the exact nature of the scenario?

xp it might have had to do with the whole 'loud proclamations' thing but the university prided itself on research-centric classes, and you'd hear about it in non-humanities classes anyway (where it wouldn't necessarily be an assumption based on the course)

still, I'd say the same things about humanities in any university

xp mechanics, electric, construction, farming, etc obv we can't predict the future but all seem more valuable than accounting or law

aka skills that are valuable outside the context of society

but what about the accountants and lawyers who aren't lucky enough to see a doomsday in their lifetime? what a waste of effort.

nb that you don't actually need an apocalypse for those skills to be valuable

but they could end up being much less valuable than accounting or law skills if you really do trade off one for the other

i always cringed at chuck d's cameo in that sonic youth song.

a most unKOOL conservative belief.

GMOs are good

there is definitely nothing wrong with eating genetically modified food, billions of servings eaten to date, it's the anti-vax of food to be suspicious of gmos

the technology for making GMOs can be used for good and bad things

I'm generally fine with GMOs and don't think there's any reason to fear them, but I don't agree with the anti-vax analogy at all.

I mean vaccines are a long-used, proven thing with pretty much no purpose other than to benefit humanity and stop disease. GMOs I believe are generally safe, but it's still unclear that they'll be used in any widespread way to do anything other than make agribusiness more profitable.

being able to effectively lead a ragtag band of competent farmers, mechanics, masons and electrical engineers is way more useful than knowing how to do stuff

i always cringed at chuck d's cameo in that sonic youth song.

a most unKOOL conservative belief.

― Philip Nunez, Thursday, August 18, 2016

tell it like it is

lol

i think the liberal tendency to harangue someone publicly and relentlessly every time they step outside the bounds of PC speech often just martyrs them rather than shames them and plays into the hands of folks who share even more virulent un-PC beliefs. sometimes (not always) it's probably best to kill them with kindness and prove them wrong that way or something. i don't know if that's a conservative belief or more of a strategic disagreement though.

I'm not unilaterally against public shaming, but I'm hoping that we'll soon see the end of it's period of overuse.

xp mechanics, electric, construction, farming, etc obv we can't predict the future but all seem more valuable than accounting or law

― Mordy, Thursday, August 18, 2016 9:33 AM (2 hours ago)

the underlying concepts of accounting and law are very useful in this scenario though

I believe ideas have consequences

being able to effectively lead a ragtag band of competent farmers, mechanics, masons and electrical engineers is way more useful than knowing how to do stuff

― El Tomboto, Thursday, August 18, 2016 11:29 AM (29 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

first, pvmic. second, I think you meant 'electricians' there.

I don't really foresee a prolonged period of time in which there is no "society." I think some form of society tends to congeal relatively quickly. I figure I'll probably just die in the initial deluge but if I manage to survive I'll find a way to make myself useful.

most useful skill is to learn to play to conch shell. so they keep you around for the announcement of speeches, meal times, and public executions.

iirc the conch system's the first to go in the breakdown

poor piggy

"I've got the conch"

"Oh yeah, well I've got the saxophone"

*plays hot licks*

*plays baker street*

you have to be a nimble, boulder dodging conch player

but you still have to play the conch

It's a political shell game is what it is

it's all Bologna is what it is (abalone)

most meetings are a waste of time and resources

hey keep it down we're riffing in here

Reagan was a damn good public speaker.

i sometimes fantasize about what we could learn if we threw all scientific ethics out the window

I think you meant 'electricians' there.

"makers"

i sometimes fantasize about what we could learn if we threw all scientific ethics out the window

surely Prometheus offers a chilling enough warning to discourage this

i dislike most music

so does half of ILM

you could never listen to even half of all the music. so you'd have to listen to a representative sample of all music, and then predict that you dislike most music

always interpreted that as they just enjoy arguing but okay

xp

you could never listen to even half of all the music. so you'd have to listen to a representative sample of all music, and then predict that you dislike most music

― veggie sticks potato snacks (Sufjan Grafton), Thursday, August 18, 2016 8:41 PM (13 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

there is a thread for you: http://ilxor.com/ILX/ThreadSelectedControllerServlet?boardid=77&threadid=48

looks like it'd be a thread about me and for others, but ok

call it ilx's desire to include all types

ilx's desire to make Big Bang Theory jokes

some ilxors like to affect a lack of understanding of rhetoric for comic effect. some ilxors maybe don't actually understand rhetoric.

some songs I like. some songs maybe I don't like. it is only appropriate to be conservative about language and the exact numbers itt.

first two sentences sound pretty vague tbh

first two sentences' physical strength and stamina are extraordinary

he understands rhetoric ladies and gentlemen

"I've got the conch"

"Oh yeah, well I've got the saxophone"

*plays hot licks*

Roland Kirk has both,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqXYAcVPDD4

these guys can really play to conch

I was gonna post a Steve Swell vid. If Steve Swell survives the apocalypse, I don't think I'm gonna get the conch gig.

"no no stop stop!"
"not my conch tempo"
"again! 5,6,7,8"

all of my conservative beliefs are the cool ones

black is chic

stalinism is a best-case scenario for marxism in practice

keep reading this as "revel in your uncool conservative beliefs here"

that's how I treat the thread

sometimes (not always) it's probably best to kill them

otm

i love gluten

i love money

God yes to both

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DurOayiRDk4

i love having money and i hate not having enough

but if yr saying that u just find dollar bills to be aesthetically pleasing i cannot agree

no i'm saying what you're saying. also spending it on consumer products i want, for me.

it's not cool to be a craven apolitical consumer lifestyle gay but i think i am more of one at this point in my life. i get a lot of satisfaction out of buying things i want. and that's ok.

I want lots of money but my life choices have not pointed me in that direction whatsoever and i don't see that changing soon. im not so much interested in buying things, but am interested in vacationing, eating out (well), and attending events all of which require $$$

that gluten comment reminded me that i really like the smell of baker's yeast

sorry this probably belongs in a 'weird smells you secretly love' thread

xp yeah i chose my profession based on vaguely altruistic aspirations which i'm totally over and now i have a shit ton of debt and a low income range so my spending capacity will probably just become more limited in the mid-term, buying things has turned into my way of not dealing with it well. i also want to travel so bad.

Money is good when you can travel, buy drinks for friends, and think of nice places to eat lunch.

sorry this probably belongs in a 'weird smells you secretly love' thread

Is there such a thread? I would like that. Though probably I'd find out that all the 'weird' smells I love are totally normcore and boring.

haha probably applies to me as well

i searched for it but couldn't find anything really relevant

there's a sickly sweet smell of wood that the table at my summer camp made when i scraped/filed it w/ the broad side of my pencil. also that chlorine'y indoor swimming pool smell.

I vote "strange scent wafting out of the a/c vent"

I think it's a shame that not all schools are teaching cursive writing anymore.

I have a limited range of small-c conservative beliefs but the ones that tend to cause the most arguments are:

The interests of teachers and teaching unions don't always overlap with the interests of learners.

Defamation and privacy laws need to be fit for purpose and resistant to obvious abuse but should be robust enough to provide a genuine check on a 'free press'.

weirdly i think all of my conservative beliefs are really leftist beliefs in disguise?

like, nature is indifferent, nobody deserves or is owed anything, not freedom, not safety, not a future, not care nor consideration -- there are no rights, history has no moral arc. that these things exist in the present is the result of long struggle, easily reversed.

humans are totally depraved, by their nature

that's not really conservative though? hobbes is a foundational thinker in liberal thought?

it's a conservative belief cf. Lakoff

My most conservative belief is probably that deep down I'm pretty glad/relieved to live under the protection of the world's most powerful military.

I like Uber a lot.

I like Airbnb a lot and ppl are always equating the two. Is there a difference? *wanders out*

i love airbnb

i have an almost physical revulsion to public shaming -- even in cases where the person did something "bad," i feel there is something unseemly about reveling in how bad and awful they are and how they are a "perfect example" of some larger social formation that is ultimately outside their control

People who use Uber and AirBnB and all these services should dispense with any pretense that those they are paying are equals, when they are functionally "the help" and should be treated accordingly and dress the part.

i get mildly annoyed by the use of "latinx" instead of latino, it is just cumbersome and i am skeptical of the notion that grammatical gender is oppressive

sarahell's posts itt

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/2012/12/friday-damn.gif

Twenty One Pilots is a good band

i get mildly annoyed by the use of "latinx" instead of latino, it is just cumbersome and i am skeptical of the notion that grammatical gender is oppressive

― marcos, Friday, August 26, 2016 4:39 PM (two days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i'll go one further and say that i think the notion that grammatical gender is oppressive is deeply anglocentric, as many languages -- including spanish -- can't do away with gendering things as easily as english can

except "latino" and "latina" are words used in an english language context in the first place. it is a political designation in the US to describe people whose national/ethnic heritage traces to latin american countries. the term itself is already anglocentric. making it gender neutral in writing is p cool, though kind of a bear to vocalize. la-TIN-ex? la-TINKS? la-TIN-equis?

(also language is def oppressive tho obv using the right pronouns alone is not justice, etc.)

throws conservative 2 cents in: polyamory is a fool's errand

I wouldn't call it a belief but when an acquaintance or internet stranger goes on about their life being out of control, my reaction is sometimes "why not just have your life not be a nightmare train wreck" as if they chose it

This is the most uncool thing I'm aware of about myself.

Being roughly aligned with J Street as far as I/P issues makes me a conservative by some standards and a self-hating Jew by others so I don't count that.

I really don't enjoy people who use FB as the place to air all thir woes

*their

you shouldn't be able to graduate college without passing a class called Shutting the Fuck Up About Things Most of the Time

bureaucracy is good

throws conservative 2 cents in: polyamory is a fool's errand

― 6 god none the richer (m bison)

for straights

Noted!

I don't think septum piercings look particularly good.

Tattoos are fucking repulsive.

i think sometimes you probably have to execute your political enemies

i prefer latin@s. haha.

nothing anglocentric about the use tho, you see latinxs and latin@s in Spanish - well ive seen both used in spain and chile.

i agree that the fact that the plural term in spanish for something including both genders is just the form used for dudes is not the biggest issue.

the term "gender" was historically purely grammatical of course, up until modern times at least

isn't rendering something in a way that's unsayable privileging the written over the lived? or does it call attn to that fact? is it logocentric (only 90s kids will understand)

I assumed that ppl who use it just say "la-TIN-ex" like m bison suggested above? has anyone here heard someone say "latinx" irl?

or, to be accurate, I assumed ppl pronounced it "la-TEEN-ex"

Pretty much only at Black Lives Matter rallies and similar protests.
Xp

(It is la-TEEN-ex as far as I know)

la-TEEN-ex is phonetically atrocious imo, sounds like portmanteau of latrine and kleenex. i had previously imagined it pronounced la-TINX, which doesn't quite roll off the tongue, either. i'll call anyone whatever they want tho because being uptight about it is NOT one of my Uncool Conservative Beliefs B-)

there needs to be a word for the cycle of denial, anxiety, frustration and acceptance we go through when made aware of new inclusive/pc terminology lol

The 4 stages of woke

i don't tihnk i'm getting more conservative but i think like internet social justice clickbait shit and all the pop culture armchair sociology and shit around it is getting tiresome, like analyzing every beyonce VMA appearance or young thug album cover as some hugely meaningful thing in our discourse around social justice is annoying. idk im a poc and have spent a lot of time the past few years immersed in social justice / diversity / inclusion work in my career including chairing the diversity & inclusion committee at my last job so part of it could just be diversity fatigue which i've talked about w/ other people doing this kind of work byut i also just have less patience for the dumber shit said by people who i otherwise agree with

latinx okay i get it but i still think it is kind of dumb

latinx sounds like an energy drink for latin@s

bureaucracy is good

This is an uncool liberal belief, not a conservative one

http://i.imgur.com/8o9Z2lZ.jpg

like one way street upthread what I think of as "uncool conservative beliefs" may in fact be "mainstream liberal beliefs" that I suspect would catch flak from my more occasionally radical interlocutors

Many xposts

To be clear fwiw my la-TIN-ex pronunciation is the long I sound in Spanish

Latin@s is almost there but exclusionary of non-binary genders

i'm kind of wondering if sarahel has ever used airbnb or uber

you don't "pay" uber drivers and aren't most airbnb "landlords" middle class ppl?

aren't most airbnb "landlords" middle class ppl?

https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2016/mar/18/airbnb-from-homesharing-cool-to-commercial-giant

most airbnb landlords are landlords

and uber, at least in cities, is mainly a way to fuck over unionized cabdrivers who actually did the work to get a hack license and appropriate insurance for their business

these are not my uncool conservative opinions though, sorry

i have a few friends that make decent side cashola doing the AirBnb thing

as opposed to like, renting a room to a tenant, which would make them a fraction of the money. only catch is the occasional death threat (which one of my friends got from a AirBnb guest who they had to remove)

and uber, at least in cities, is mainly a way to fuck over unionized cabdrivers who actually did the work to get a hack license and appropriate insurance for their business

― Anacostia Aerodrome (El Tomboto), Monday, August 29, 2016 9:51 PM (twelve minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

in my city hack licenses are monopolized and leased by a handful of genuinely shitty people; i have mixed feelings at best on uber but the current system can burn.

leftists who preach equality and compassion are often people who are doing it for reasons of fashion/social climbing/superiority and can be the most miserable dicks out there. if they have an Alain Badiou book in conspicuous sight, you're in for a bad time. unless you're one of the same douchebags and can crow about it together.

uncool conservative belief twofer, people who read literature and philosophy but don't seem to actually understand/absorb it considering their levels of empathy and understanding about the world are still at sub-toddler levels.

capitalism has been one of history's greatest drivers of quality of life

ppl would be happier if they attended religious services more often

the #1 problem in the west today is the disintegration of communities / the family

ppl would be happier if they attended religious services more often

for many, true, definitely not true in my case. I think having any kind of therapeutic, repeated communal activity can be helpful, which is why I won't shit on anybody who gets something out of it, though. it works for my folks.

leftists who preach equality and compassion are often people who are doing it for reasons of fashion/social climbing/superiority and can be the most miserable dicks out there.

in the online world, I wonder how much of that is driven by the current climate where everybody feels pressured to have an opinion on something and make it known, lest their silence be interpreted as 'not giving a shit'.

capitalism has been one of history's greatest drivers of quality of life

ppl would be happier if they attended religious services more often

the #1 problem in the west today is the disintegration of communities / the family

― Mordy, Monday, August 29, 2016 10:01 PM (eighteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i agree with the last two which is why i cannot fully endorse #1

well, i wont put it #1, but it's on the list

*sigh* which is to say disintegration of communities and family is not #1, you feel me

I find it kind of ridiculous that the govt chips in for NPR. Why don't they chip in for New Yorker subscriptions while they're at it

https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2016/mar/18/airbnb-from-homesharing-cool-to-commercial-giant

most airbnb landlords are landlords

― Anacostia Aerodrome (El Tomboto), Tuesday, 30 August 2016 01:50 (twelve hours ago) Permalink

maybe its different in uk/europe but commercial listings are still a minority of listings, but a higher share of revenue (because they can rent the rooms out more days/year) http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/airbnb-probably-isnt-driving-rents-up-much-at-least-not-yet/

most people should not have children

My personal flavour of Uncool Conservatism is a mix of 1. a Hobbesian fear of well-meaning but wrong radicals succeeding and actually taking over (sorry ows and emil.y!) and then we all idk starve or get our heads chopped off or whatever, and 2. contrarian neoliberal scold. The former is relatively sincere, the latter is more of a troll and a product of ennui at having grown-up in an intellectual environment of incurious and smug petit-bourgeois progressivism; the same force pushed me to the far left in college. I don't really have enough confidence in most of my political beliefs to really act on them in any meaningful way beyond posting regretful challops on an anonymous plaintext message board, voting (so far always a razor's edge of indifference between two center-left parties), and occasionally throwing some change at campaigns & orgs like Sanders or BLM that tug my heartstrings. I generally come out on the woke side of the White-Guy Cycle of Social Justice Acceptance but still have private misgivings about how some of the institutions play out irl (esp in music scenes, one of which I've had first hand experience of being ripped to shreds over ensuing acrimony)

ppl would be happier if they attended religious services more often

This one really bums me out actually. The offices of a "hip" college kid-skewing church are across the street from my house and they always seem to have all sort of events going on, like cookouts and people doing stuff and a band playing every once in a while.

I think a lot about how nice it would be to have some sort of community like that to interact with regularly, but the single thing that every one of these people by definition have in common and the essential reason they're all hanging out together is something that I think is absolute nonsense. There doesn't seem to be anything quite like shared spiritual belief that causes people to get together in this manner.

hey, you never know, maybe they're just there for the bbq

Seriously. I was looking for a way out of the church my whole childhood and when I turned 16 I found a job that required me to be there on Sunday mornings. I miss the ice cream socials and volunteer opportunities, but fuck listening to interminable sermons once a week and cracking open the hymnal every 10 minutes.

i am super happy not going to religious services at all, like my weekends got 100x better when i got to college and realized that i don't have to go to church every sunday anymore

but yea i agree about the need for community/family

my wife and i tried out various churches for a while, we were both raised catholic and not interested in that anymore so we visited a few different progressive churches eg UCC, UU and it was fine i guess but it still felt like church, the bigger factor was that i just realized i wasn't a christian anymore so it became kind of pointless to go

Not a conservative belief: I've found that if you can bracket yr faith (or lack thereof) it stops being important. Like who cares whether I believe? I'm just some shmuck.

i find doing things i want to do to be generally superior to doing things i have to do.

a lot of people, honestly, particularly at the mainline/liberal denominations, _are_ just there for the barbecue. it's so funny to me that so many people are proud about being "spiritual but not religious" when being religious but not spiritual is way better for you as a human being. being "spiritual" will super fuck you up.

Like who cares whether I believe? I'm just some shmuck.

irl lol, something v Jewish about this

capitalism has been one of history's greatest drivers of quality of life

ppl would be happier if they attended religious services more often

the #1 problem in the west today is the disintegration of communities / the family

Finding it hard to disagree with these tbh.

the main problem with religious involvement is the people imo. the church on my street that has a band that sounds like coldplay playing during services, and does a soup kitchen for the homeless, and runs a nursery, and free tax clinics etc. seems nice and welcoming and not stuffy. even if we ignore the fact that they're total bigots, the people are just awful. they come from the suburbs into the city to go to church - i guess because it's some specific weirdo prod denomination. after service finishes they flood to the local ice cream places in their suvs. they are bland. they are wholesome. they are blah.

The point of a revolutionary vanguard is not to create revolution, but to scare the bourgeoisie into creating a welfare state.

Frederik, you will like this section of this wikipedia article

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_Nations_Fail#Drivers_of_Democracy

You might like the book too but I dunno haven't read it

the people are just awful

well, that's people for you, isn't it?

Like who cares whether I believe? I'm just some shmuck.

irl lol, something v Jewish about this

― Οὖτις, Tuesday, August 30, 2016 10:25 AM (fifty-three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yep

there's a local youth-oriented church thing in my city that's similar, I think maybe they're not all that religiousy then I see a group of them studying the bible at a coffeeshop

super weird when there are two bible study groups of young (college-age to mid-20s) adults and they're segregated by gender. like, you're from the same church and all sitting there with bibles open, wtf is going on here

my belief is that youth-oriented churches are a corruption of the idea of church community because the point of the community is it includes the old and young alike and age is a really creepy way to divide yr religious community

there are many, many cool new wave churches around where I live that seem to be targeting a younger demo. I, for one, am deeply suspicious of all of them.

Yanks still fixating on religion wtf guys the world is yours

yanks took that seriously and literally now own the world dude

I guess the haters call this neo-liberalism rather than conservatism, but: I think identity-based politics are more important than class-based at this moment in time.

Also, and I know this is controversial, for all that I dislike Clinton's foreign policy and find her too hawkish, I still trust her more than Stein on this subject. And, honestly, Sanders.

Xp if u own the world hows come u pay us all the tax

I think you'll find we don't pay you the tax, hence the legal wrangling

We don't want it anyway

my belief is that youth-oriented churches are a corruption of the idea of church community because the point of the community is it includes the old and young alike and age is a really creepy way to divide yr religious community

― mh 😏, Tuesday, August 30, 2016 2:25 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I thought youth-oriented churches were the ones with a mix if young and old alike, and it's other churches that are exclusively geriatrics at this point

it's a double irish arrangement foolio

feel bad for dear old ireland tho

eu should be ashamed of itself

xp

Nah, Margrethe Vestager ftw!

cheers peggy for turning a blind eye to tax loopholes in a country that needed a bailout

gotta love the socialists for keeping those in need down, but feeding them just enough swill to think they're improving

I can't decide where I stand on it tbh. Doesn't feel like tax swindling is a just or sustainable basis for economic success but......maybe it is?

children who regularly misbehave in school should be sent to work camps

church youth groups exist as a dating pool imo.

(something that becomes readily
apparent if you've ever been in/around one: they are erotically charged to a fairly intense degree)

yeah, that was the creepy vibe I got watching the two tables of coffee shop bible studiers interacting

reminds me of my college roommate who was raised very churchy who said that if you sat next to the same person at a college christian group three weeks in a row you're now engaged

lol my church youth group was quite small, all male, and any erotic energy was sublimated

dicks 4 Jesus

my belief is that youth-oriented churches are a corruption of the idea of church community because the point of the community is it includes the old and young alike and age is a really creepy way to divide yr religious community

― mh 😏

or maybe it's that many churches are so oriented around family life (there seem to be a lot of people who are not highly concerned with religion personally but are concerned that their children learn religious values) that people without children feel left out, particularly since they're a definite minority in most churches.

struggling to think of any actual conservative beliefs that i have (other than the good ones mentioned here about community/family/religion) that are distinguishable as truly conservative as opposed to just a general philosophical pessimism (hence the value i see in some traditional forms of religion). Is belief in "progress" still a Left Wing belief? Historical necessity? Enlightenment? Who believes in these things anymore?

Enlightenment in light of post colonialism almost can seem right wing! Tho there are left wing (antideutsch) who still use this kind of language from the left - though they seem troubling right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxRD0UvbpII

In fine with some animals going extinct.
Labor unions in their present state are causing more harm than good.
I think some people are just lazy.

i *think* belief in progress is right wing now

Right wing progress is shipping illegals to a deep part of the Gulf of Mexico.

the value of privacy far outweighs the usefulness/utility of social media (which also i detest/reject almost universally)

while i use the internet and air conditioning and whatever, when it comes to future technological advancements, i am only capable of anticipating them with dread

I welcome dread as the overwhelming emotion of anticipating the future. It's the rational response to unmapped terrain.

Here be basilisks

tbh I own books and save articles titled "dread exhibition" and "dread networks" and love music that embraces that feeling while treeship seems to be relatively cheerful, head-in-sand, sharing articles everyone can halfheartedly disdain while slowly shaking collective heads and ho-humming and bonding over how things ideally could be

Thoreau was the foremost writer of dystopias tbh

the value of privacy far outweighs the usefulness/utility of social media (which also i detest/reject almost universally)

― geometry-stabilized craft (art), Tuesday, August 30, 2016 11:21 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

almost posted about this in another thread the other day but didn't for fear of being clowned. Mostly because obviously, nobody forces us to be a part of social media, but it's almost forced in some ways. You don't get invited to some events because a friend does all his inviting on FB and he forgot you aren't on it anymore and didn't call/text you. You're a part of a hobby/project that uses FB groups to document meeting times/important news and it inconveniences everybody else if you're not on FB. You find out about things less swiftly.

the whole lack of privacy thing became a lot more concerning to me when they no longer allowed you to prevent other people from searching you by name (encouraged stalker behavior, which has forced at least two friends of mine to change their real names to fake names on FB). social media was so much more simple when it was just MySpace and a fledgling Facebook. People posted silly crap and just kept up with their friends, much more innocuous.

4 or 5 years ago, I got a sizable raise due to joining a new department due to the dissolution of my old one. This was a huge deal because my debt-to-income ratio had been terrible to where I was losing money each month despite being gainfully employed, so in a foolish moment, I posted about it (without specifics, but mentioning a raise, which of course is a no-no cos it's private). I don't recall having any co-workers as FB friends at that time (though it's foggy), but I did list where I worked (which I now refuse to do). Somehow, a former colleague of mine somehow got wind of what I posted and made a stink about it that got back to my manager. Fortunately I didn't get in any trouble, but I sure didn't make that mistake again.

Checking in to show friends where you are is innocent enough, but can easily encourage stalker behavior (esp if you are friends with tons of people you barely know on FB). and now the latest problem is friends who don't know each other laying into each other in the midst of political discussions - there was once an argument that erupted on FB amongst an acquaintance of mine and a stranger which escalated to an outright death threat (which fortunately was not acted upon). I got accused of hurting someone's feelings last year for a thing I posted (to be fair, it was deserved - it was a dickish thing and I handled it quite poorly). My social anxiety and OCD is bad enough at the moment (I need to find a new therapist after losing my last one) to where I often react severely to being criticized or insulted (even jokingly) in an online setting, so I mostly pick and choose what I post lately.

But, with that being said, for a dude with crippling social anxiety, it also opened a lot of doors for me. one of my longest lasting relationships originated with a FB conversation. the ease of inviting people to things led me to organize events that I would previously be too chickenshit to do due to the rigor of mailing invitations/etc and keeping tabs of details. I gained several acting roles and musical gigs by simply paying attention, as well as being able to easily circulate portfolio. and because of my self-esteem issues, sometimes it has helped me kick off a discussion when I am upset with someone to tell them about it calmly so that we can then progress to discussing it in person. probably sounds a bit pathetic, but I've gotten a lot better since being medicated (still a bit 'damaged goods' but hey).

so I have to think I'd be worse off without it.

but I do worry about online privacy, particularly the longevity of the internet and how embarrassing content can have an unlimited hself life. There are posts from me using my gov't name on Usenet (a Metallica group) from when I was in high school still c 20 years ago chasing me all over the net. From when I was a Fundamentalist Christian. It's usually worth a chuckle. I'm usually careful to adopt pseudonyms and be very careful about the things I post that could be traced back to me.

LiveJournal still existing kinda amazes me

did not mean to impugn treeship's wistfulness, it is fine

I welcome dread as the overwhelming emotion of anticipating the future. It's the rational response to unmapped terrain.

this seems so absurd after having grown up on a stale diet of nuclear fallout fantasies and crazy cold war espionage films

creates cool mutations IMO

lol that is a particular specified dread, I just mean the underlying feeling that things could go wrong, but every day we act to live, not only in reaction to the feeling

it's like feeling that the road will be bumpy and we share this recognition and make art about it, but we keep on rolling. Cold War bunker ppl are straight up fetishists. I think the more dystopias you write the fewer you live

feel the dread, live the life

walden retreat and bunker ppl are the same in a way, retreating from the world instead of taking a breather and just doing your thing

People who don't read books are idiots

I eagerly anticipate technological advances in the future. Is that conservative or not?

Re: privacy, I'll gladly sacrifice it for convenience. I don't know if that is conservative or not either.

there needs to be a word for the cycle of denial, anxiety, frustration and acceptance we go through when made aware of new inclusive/pc terminology lol

I'm pretty cool about accepting these and suspicious of people who habitually refuse given the minimal effort it takes but I do sometimes get the (possibly reactionary) sense that too much energy is being spent on inventing and policing terminology that isn't particularly different to the old terms. I'm thinking of the time I said on here that I didn't really use the phrase "person of colour" as I find it a bit silly and awkward (which I only brought up cause ppl were acting horrified that some dummy had used the term "person of ethnicity" which is an identical construction) and I was straight up scolded by a white woman about how actually it's the preferred term among activists, actually

Or again recently when someone told off a (poc) poster for using the terms "coloured" and "ethnic", presumably as opposed to the permitted acronyms poc and bme & it's like what the fuck do you think the c and e stand for genius?

I get that there's often other value than inclusivity here - provocation, cultural shibboleths, narc of sd - just not sure it's always worth it

i think in general there's a pretty poor understanding of digital privacy and its implications among the general public, particularly the idea that it's an absolute, either something is "private" or not. i'm super amazed that people will disclose information to advertisers they don't trust the government with.

lol my church youth group was quite small, all male, and any erotic energy was sublimated

― ogmor, Tuesday, August 30, 2016 4:35 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

they just weren't that into you

tbh I own books and save articles titled "dread exhibition" and "dread networks" and love music that embraces that feeling while treeship seems to be relatively cheerful, head-in-sand, sharing articles everyone can halfheartedly disdain while slowly shaking collective heads and ho-humming and bonding over how things ideally could be

― mh 😏, Wednesday, August 31, 2016 12:57 AM (eighteen hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I conservatively wish that i actually embodied this caricature.

sometimes I wish I could still be religious. i was brought up in a Catholic school run by a Franciscan order and they were pretty cool, they were hardcore about compassion and social justice and lived it. i became an atheist at 13 cuz the whole subjective/community faith ≠ objective reality thing that i've never been able to resolve.

I think my personal quality of life would probably be better if I were religious and part of a progressive religious community, but I can't get past the belief thing.

Have u considered Judaism

cannot recommend the application process at this time

Are they not cross-training mohels on anesthesiology yet

Oh here's an uncool conservative belief, I'm glad my genitals were modified as part of a ritual symbolizing my family's religious beliefs.

well when you put it like that...

I suspect that pornography actually is psychically harmful, and I dislike the extremes to which sexuality has been commodified in our society (although the second part is more from a Marxist than conservative POV).

But then liberalism likes to pretend that everything not liberal is conservative.

The problem is that most of the anti-porn discourse out there is terrible and comes from the wrong place and puts you in league with gross people.

Marxism would prob have pornos imo

Pornography in the Soviet Union[edit]
Pornography in the Soviet Union was largely suppressed until the final years of the USSR. According to The Pornography and Erotica Debate: USSR, sex in general was viewed as "a wasteful consumer of energies better devoted to the building of Communism." Genrikh Yagoda, the third head of the NKVD, was accused during his trial (besides espionage and high treason) of storing a great number of pornographic films and pictures. Such accusations were also faced by Nikolai Yezhov, who followed Yagoda. More recently, possession could get up to 3 years in prison, or a 3000 ruble fine. The 1988 Soviet film Malenkaya Vera was the first to feature a sex scene. The resolution on Glasnost stated, "Glasnost must not be used...[to] disseminate pornography" but by September 1989, calendars of topless women for the year 1990 were being sold in Moscow.[1]

i agree w/gbx's post upthread

guys just literally dont ever do cocaine unless you are comfortable with the fact that ppl's heads got cut off in order for you to talk too loud at a party about your stupid ideas

― jason waterfalls (gbx)

yeah completely agree with that, don't see it as conservative though, more like bad/contradictory thinking from people who think they're left-leaning.

yeah i guess it's an instance where conservative schoolmarming and more leftish social concerns overlap on a venn diagram of anti-drug beliefs.

Otoh I bet the overlap between people politically serious enough to boycott companies with bad ethical
practices and cocaine users is small.

I str8 up h8 the dutch

While I understand the political calculations informing the use of "undocumented" and support nationalizing most of these immigrants, I still get irritated when "illegal" isn't used. They broke the law, albeit a misdemeanor by not having papers.

is the objection not that the person may have committed an illegal act but the term "illegal" is used, in perpetuum to describe their personhood?

there's no way to know

i was in the unfortunate case of dealing with us immigration and someone who could no longer reside in the country legally -- she gained entrance legally and the only reason her residential status switched to 'illegal' was because us immigration is the biggest piece of fucking shit i've ever encountered

'undocumented' is just giving people the benefit of the doubt that they may be here illegally for reasons out of their control. that's not to say a lot of people didn't immigrate to the us illegally, but it's just tricky using a blanket statement to describe what varies almost case by case

actually, undocumented doesn't sound like someone is judging the reason you are still in the country or how you gained entrance, which is fine by me

Part of the objection to "illegal immigrant" is that it modifies the person rather than the act. It sounds like it's supposed to imply "bad person." Of course, you could make the same argument about "criminal" as a noun.

eloquently said!

thanks, y'all

I str8 up h8 the dutch

― poor fiddy-less albion (darraghmac), Friday, September 2, 2016 9:42 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Thats not what you whispered in my ear last night iirc

This is not why I have you the WiFi code

What kind of belief is "bring back conscription" if it includes public service jobs in addition to military duty? Is that conservative and uncool?

i think it sounds collectivist and great. would have been way better than how i spent the years between 18 and 22, that is, learning to become a narcissist at liberal arts college

Man, fuck conscription. I spent four months underpaid at a tv station, had to wait a whole year before I could go to college. But that's not the worst of it, the worst was the final year of high school, where everyone was making plans for what they wanted to afterwards, and I couldn't plan anything because I 1) am a man and 2) started highschool quite young, only turned 18 in third year, so went to the draft in the spring, during exams, while most of the men in my class went in second grade.

Fuck conscription. It's bullshit and it fucks up young people's life in so many ways.

Oh, no, you know what's the fucking worst about conscription? In Denmark, education is free, and most people take a long time finishing it. It's not that unusual to finish college in your thirties. So the government floated the idea to give people a bonus if they got done with college six years after finishing highschool. And I wouldn't have qualified BECAUSE I WAS FUCKING DRAFTED!!!

I mean, they didn't do it, and who cares. But fuck conscription, seriously. Fucking fuck conscription.

I don't know any vegans who use cocaine but then again I don't live in California

A tv station

people that railed against that Wells Fargo ad ("Yesterday - Actor, today - botanist") were overreacting cos acting is a crappy way to make a living and half the 'actor' friends of mine who were upset about it have corporate careers.

and Rent is about selfish Bohemians who think everybody owes them something.

re: conscription, hard to imagine a bigger voluntary waste of welfare and liberty than arbitrarily imposing that young adults not do whatever the f they want

If I had been conscripted instead of enlisting I would have come out with half of my college education already completed, assuming I chose to matriculate in a degree program similar to what I had trained for. This doesn't work for all military jobs, of course, or for all majors. As it was I went in with 2+ years of credits completed and finished the rest while I was in; got my B.A. the month before my enlistment ended.

I really appreciate Fred's perspective. I think maybe my truly uncool conservative belief here is that young people and their parents need to have a more open mind about military service, like, people who are not from families with a service history should all strongly consider signing on to be a perfectly good and worthwhile thing to do and not some dumb risky shit that's only for poor kids and ne'er do wells. I would really like it if military time was commonplace enough that people would stop being all ostentatiously fucking grateful about it. Sorry not sorry, that shit gets on my last nerve.

there's a left-wing argument for conscription - gives middle + upper class families more of a stake in questions of war

I would really like it if military time was commonplace enough that people would stop being all ostentatiously fucking grateful about it.

there were Vets outside the Def Leppard show I just went to asking for courtesy tickets to the show for vets and kept saying "you're welcome" with a sneer to people who walked by them, it was a bit offputting

i don't feel too bad tbh i don't remember asking anybody to fuck up the middle east for me

i'm glad i didn't get conscripted i guess but no conscription is a keystone of endless ambient war, shrug

Denmark only has peacetime conscription. No conscripts went to Iraq, only professional soldiers. It's meant to be defensive, but of course, last time we were invaded, we were defeated in six hours anyway.

people spend way too much energy on getting laid

variation on that: hook-up culture is bad.

copyright rules should be more standardized and enforceable.

This is not so much conservative as straight up racist, but sometimes I think that people with passports from certain countries should not be allowed to open American bank accounts. Particularly Nigerians and to a lesser extent Iranian and Armenian nationals. Individuals from these groups generate a disturbingly high proportion of alerts for unusual transaction activity and are almost never cleared of wrongdoing in the subsequent investigations (e.g. every time their activity gets referred, they are in fact ultimately determined to be doing something fraudulent/illegal).

Their schemes are ALWAYS incredibly complicated, involving numerous relatives, associates, and domestic/foreign shell companies, so the investigations invariably take days to complete. At the end of your 20 hour investigation you will typically find the source of funds is... in order of frequency of occurrence... 1. scammed American elderly people(lottery/romance/whatever); 2. victims of tax fraud ("You owe the IRS $10,000 and must pay us now!"); 3. suspected drug money; 4. money being laundered out of Nigeria (oil/government corruption) and moved everywhere on earth imaginable before being parked in real estate or in an offshore account.

In conclusion, my uncool conservative belief/fantasy/death wish is that Nigerian nationals should not be banked in America. Thank you and good night.

thank you and enjoy your FPs

does that have to do anything with that iranian millionaire living in ohio who was on welfare?

oh did these ripoff artists park their money with Wells Fargo?

i don't think so

i'm referring to this one: http://www.wkyc.com/news/investigations/raid-targets-geauga-county-millionaire-on-food-stamps/315215814

I think Mumia is probably guilty and while there were some questionable details at original trial, probably doesn't deserve another retrial (note - not a belief I apply to other similar cases, just that one).

treating dysphoric children with puberty blockers and HRT is unethical.

not being attracted to old or obese or disabled or otherwise conventionally unattractive people is "fine" and "unproblematic" and "not symptomatic of internalized gerontophobia/fatphobia/ableism".

there's something quaint and poetic about cleaning and oiling a handgun, engraving your glock with delicate filigrees and bald eagles, building a gun cabinet out of barnwood to keep in the corner of your man cave. is it worth losing a part of our cultural heritage in the name of gun control? yes. but something of marginal value will still have been lost.

Yeah you're wrong about the first one.

maybe. I'm just not convinced that young children (and to a lesser extent adolescents) are capable of informed consent for medical interventions of that magnitude.

this is not about what's right or wrong, this is about what's cool

lol sry I got mad

pathetic esquire magazine fanfic at the end is the height of uncool at least

The bit about having some interest in/reverence for guns-as-objects has become somewhat more understandable to me when I contemplate my own relationship with guitars. I'm frankly a sucker for gear fetishism.

One can kinda understand how deeply a gun nut might just really get _into_ the history, peculiarities, aesthetic properties, and cultural resonance of a particular piece of equipment. How he might contemplate its power and its resonance, enjoy handling and caring for it, and strive to use it more accurately and maintain it well. (Quite irrespective of its capacity to, y'know, kill people.)

Just as there are those dudes who can glance at a Stratocaster headstock and tell you the year and place of manufacture, based merely on the serial number. People who aren't necessarily even serious musicians, they just love to collect and fondle and admire guitars. "Ah, I can tell that that's a '53; they didn't start using the bent-steel saddles until '54, plus that year's formulation of Fiesta Red is known to fade to pink rather than deepen."

(Or whatever, I'm sure I'm garbling that, but you know the type of knowledge I mean.)

I don't really want to wade into a debate about this, but puberty blockers' effects are reversible, and essentially just buy time for adolescents to make their decisions; and going through the wrong puberty as a trans kid can often be extremely painful.

My own uncool (or just hypocritical) belief: I do think as a general rule it's better not to ascribe a gender to strangers before they've articulated it themselves, especially because there isn't a consistent code of presentation among nonbinary people; but in my own case, I would pretty much always rather have other people correctly infer my gender than ask me how I identify.

people should be allowed to own guns, just not ammunition. Like one day we'll have old cars, too, but you'll only be able to buy gasoline for them with a bunch of annoying paperwork and a trip to the heavily regulated special purpose fuels dispensary. this is not an uncool conservative belief, sorry.

i remember that chris rock routine (we don't need gun control, we need bullet control)

isn't that a chris rock joke lol xp

guns should be repurposed to shoot cereal IMO

I hope it doesn't make me a bad ally, but I find takes like this SO FUCKING EXHAUSTING TO READ

http://www.theroot.com/articles/culture/2016/10/white-feminists-gotta-go-amy-schumer-and-white-womens-foolishness/

I don't even disagree with her, but it's a combination of the writing style and the immense political weight being put on a fucking music video.

some impressive wokeness one-upmanship in the comments:

I agree with this in large part, but I think that the author's argument is undermined by the lack of nuance relative to racial identification of Schumer and Silverman as white. While I would agree that the colonization of black women's fantasies are activites closely associated with the performance of whiteness, I would enjoy reading a piece that theorizes Schumer's behavior as a reinscription of whitness by a Jewish woman who has taken on the label of white as a means for passing in a largely European Christian nation. Jews pass for white all the time and, by and large, most people consider them white. Most Jews hold and exercise white privilege much of the time, but, again, I think it is important to trace out that what Silverman and Schumer are doing is adopting white racist behavior in ways that have specific dimensions not attended to in this post. I find it deeply disturbing that Schumer has chosen to use her ability to pass as white to this end when she should be thinking about ways to undermine whiteness. I believe that the assimilation of Jews into white America is one of the worst things that has happened to our culture and has led to mindlessly racist humor such as we see here with Schumer.

(worried that rolling my eyes at that is uncool/conservative, idk)

the assimilation of Jews into white America is one of the worst things that has happened to our culture and has led to mindlessly racist humor such as we see here with Schumer

can you imagine thinking like this?

i would honestly prefer that sort of nuanced, ambivalent thinking to the sort of stuff that dominates in the current twitter hot-take wokeconomy, where people form conclusions first and then figure out why as they fill up their word count

WHITE PEOPLE SUCK -- MY TAKE

I get into a lot of conversations about this, and what a coworker explained to me is that language that used to be reserved for academic thinking — "black bodies," "misogynoir," "heteronormative," — has filtered into the writing of the daily thinkpiece grind and the occasional Katy Perry tweet

I think to get the daily dose of 10 grafs, a statement that any liberal with a working brain can agree with (ie, "Amy Schumer shouldn't be so careless in satirizing black protest") turns into a term paper ("This narrow and basic conception of feminism patronizingly tells black women and other women of color to “lean in” while categorically ignoring the structural impact of racism, sexism, xenophobia, cis-sexism, homophobia, hyperincarceration and classism in our lives.")

i agree w/ much of the recent posts itt

*many

i get the desire to explain issues in this manner and it doesn't put me off, but it makes me cringe bc i know it's going to make people who need to be reached just shut down and stop listening.

I kind of checked out of reading this stuff a couple years ago. my sympathies go out to those in working media who still have to read it on a daily basis

agree w/that take whiney.

whiney otm

Also:

This narrow and basic conception of feminism patronizingly tells black women and other women of color to “lean in” while categorically ignoring the structural impact of racism, sexism, xenophobia, cis-sexism, homophobia, hyperincarceration and classism in our lives.

It is why Donald Trump would heartily win the presidential election if only white women voted, but “women” are being named as the constituency that “will defeat Donald Trump on election day.”

No, narrow conceptions of feminism are not why Trump is winning among white women. Nope.

er, actually may be misreading that sentence nm

Still, I doubt Trump is winning the popular vote among white women and the results there probably have a lot more to do with the electoral college and the awkward conceit of the exercise.

does it really need to be said that "a belief that is not in the 95th percentile of performative wokeitude" is not the same thing as "a conservative belief"?

racism, sexism, xenophobia, cis-sexism, homophobia, hyperincarceration and classism

is there a way to write intersectionally without having to list every intersection every time?

lol eephus

the infinite "wokeness" outbidding in leftist discourse is sort of a primary feature of the left since the enlightenment, but the absence of any specific situational or pragmatic context in online world makes it seem especially silly and irrelevant. The whole "why should we care about this" part is implicitly answered by "because people will click on it." Which is to say it's a fancy form of bitchy gossip devoid of actual political relevance.

And to walk back my uncool conservatism I think there's a parallel development on the right with regard to how extreme and "pure" your anti-liberalism is which reaches its logical conclusion in paranoia and the half-baked talk of revolution.

yeah i think you have the two "pure" extremes reacting against one another and tugging the moderates away from each other, like the pure hatred of liberalism leads to the unforgiving shaming of anything not purely woke and liberal and vice versa.

I've tried to argue elsewhere that what we've been seeing is a steady denigration of "the political" understood as the accommodation of competing value systems and replaced it with a kind of moral absolutism on all sides.

if occasional quiet eye-rolling at wokeaholics is an uncool conservative belief, i guess i have it. other than that i'm mostly ignoring my latent uncool conservative beliefs atm.

Imo there's been a lot of compromise on both sides in closing the gap between normal liberals and those making calls for 'extreme woke purity', in the past few years. or I've just started ignoring the latter more lol

xp that's a tough one. marxists notwithstanding, i think the whole "working hard is the mark of an exemplary human" is some conservative bullshit. tune in and drop out, imo

woking hard

way out of my depth, sorry for that post

https://www.foodal.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/How-to-Use-A-Wok-For-Stir-Frying-Steaming.jpg

that ain't wokin, that's the way you do it

just add hoisin sauce

last post feels so long ago

don't blame me i voted for hoisin sauce

i cling desperately to my wok, don't take my wok away from me

don't wok away, in silence

I don't want anymore green places to be built over. I hope it isn't necessary to accommodate everyone with homes.

Metallic vehicles generally look like shit.

Community is important but a lot of socialists and communists who talk about it creep me out (creepy communism). That horrible "brothers and sisters" unearned friendliness that reeks of falseness. "Come and link arms and we shall sing and dance on tables like hobbits". People who act like they want to live inside bland communist propaganda art.
I don't much like the idea of knowing much about most of my neighbours and I think a lot of people need more distance sometimes.
Alone time seems to have become underrated.

Acronyms should be used very sparingly.

Pop star/celebrity images and memes on social media are vulgar.

I hope it isn't necessary to accommodate everyone with homes.

― Robert Adam Gilmour, Wednesday, 23 November 2016 00:50

I mean I hope it isn't necessary for their homes to be built over green areas.

It's not; are you lobbying your local municipality for drastic upzoning of single family housing in the next fifty years?

Haven't read all the above, but...

* tattoos almost invariably ugly and stupid-looking
* professional childcare is bad for children under kindergarten age

I'm not crazy about tats either

So no Melville body art lined up for you, then?

It is possible to overcorrect against repression and create new problems, including more repression.
Lefties are really bad at using shame, which doesn't stop them from using it all the time.

Getting from age 0 to 5 without professional childcare generally requires gobs of privilege btw

this is true:

Lefties are really bad at using shame, which doesn't stop them from using it all the time.

Yeah the shame-ee needs to agree with the shamer about what is and what is not shameful. If "omg Nazis love Trump, how can any person still support him?" were a tactic that worked, it would have worked Nov. 8. If it didn't work Nov. 8, it's not going to suddenly start working on Nov. 23.

Getting from age 0 to 5 without professional childcare generally requires gobs of privilege btw

professional childcare is quite sparse in a lot of the world

So are incomes above the global poverty line.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/ba/e5/c6/bae5c6fb7ca7c30db5aaf86a68920523.jpg

i don't find any comfort in having uncool conservative beliefs anymore :(

same, uncool conservative beliefs are now officially out of style for me

the daycare thing is kind of complicated, right? James could be correct that "professional childcare is bad for children under kindergarten age", but free or cheap daycare could still be beneficial overall if it allows parents who would otherwise not be able to afford it to go back to work, etc. there was recently a debate about it here (Quebec), where we have 5$/day daycare through a combo of public and subsidized private daycares, but also a publicized study showing that it had averse effects on some measures of kids' "non-cognitive skills". bit counter-intuitive for me but I asked my mom (who runs a daycare) about it and she suggested some possible channels

I'm not convinced it's clearly better to be home all day with a parent through age 5, depends a lot on what they have available to them. It's not really realistic for a stay-home parent to plan enriching activities all day every day, and the social aspect seems good too. I think a lot depends on the quality of the care as well.

Like being in preschool for 6 hours might be an improvement on 2 hrs of television and 4 hours of indoor play alone.

ya, I suspect it's about quality. some of the daycares are just in someone's house with like 1 or 2 other kids

new UCB: the modern/american need to make everything plain & explicit is a plague that fosters poor reading comprehension, cripples discourse, and indicates a deeper malaise in how people conceive of themselves & the world

yea the childcare thing is very complicated. part of our decision to move to a cheaper city was based (among many factors) on the opportunity for my wife to stay at home w/ the boys and we are super grateful for that. for us it has been awesome. but she's worked incredibly hard to build a varied and active schedule for them that includes all different kinds of activities, including preschool at two different places for our older son, music classes, stuff at the library, also some various types of therapy for our older son who has special needs.

i used to have uncool conservative beliefs, but apparently they're now uncool radical leftist beliefs.

being in preschool for 6 hours might be an improvement on 2 hrs of television and 4 hours of indoor play alone

My 2 year old is in a small daycare with 4-5 other kids run by a woman out of her house and absolutely loves it. He gets bored with just my wife and I over long weekends or school breaks and starts asking for the other kids and the woman by name, tries to put his shoes and jacket on to leave, etc. I don't think the two of us could really provide the level of social interaction that he obviously loves and thrives on.

When I was a kid my mom didn't work, my aunt across the street didn't work, nor did a majority of the other women in our neighborhood who had kids and they could all get together and let the kids play at a park or someone's house. Now out of all the people I know with kids there are only 2 full-time stay-at-home parents.

Reveal Your Uncool Conservative Beliefs Here [Started by sarahell in August 2016, last updated three minutes ago by joygoat on I Love AFL] 21 new answers
rae sremmurd - sremmlife (6 jan 2015) [Started by lex pretend in December 2014, last updated four minutes ago by billstevejim on I Love Music] 7 new answers

still writes itself

My mom was a stay-at-home mom but she still put me in daycare and I've never thought about that before now and now I feel kinda weird about it...

if parents have the financial resources, they should avoid their children as much as possible in order to build the childrens' independence and self-reliance

I love my 3 year old daughter and all, but daycare is a fucking godsend. If I had to watch her 24/7, I'd probably lose it. I also like that she goes to a center with lots of other kids. She learns all kinds of crazy shit from them that she then brings home.

Really surprised to hear how many of you enjoy religious ceremonies, must have had more banging hymns than I did. I assumed that even most true believers can't wait until they're over.

my sect has some pretty sick niggunim it's true

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yY-byj30cXE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sml7M66pOk0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cF8RZd3yu-k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwOedcw58gk

^ this is along the lines of what I grew up with at church; holy ghost feels a lot more real when accompanied by these voices

that's racist Mordy

If someone is going to do a war, there's no real reason not to do it with drones.

European right wingers are probably right that they're facing a demographic social catastrophe. Otoh fuck Europe. This one maybe a wash.

xp perpetual war

That seems like a weird one for you to say since it's so consonant with neonazi/white supremacist ideology. I'm sure you mean it in a different way. I'm a little sensitive for all the Eurocentric save-the-west fascists popping up on every other twitter thread I open.

They could be correct on the facts (above replacement immigration population plus below replacement native European population = predictable results) and still who gives a fuck let someone else be in charge over there.

I'm glad wet foot/dry foot is gone.

I am agnostic on drones -- it seems like a tradeoff btw less full-scale war vs more low-grade perpetual war.

thread for awkward radical opinions where we talk thru it being appropriate to have some skin in the game if you are imposing death abroad

if you're doing war and you're concerned w/ sportsmanship you're doing war wrong

the only appropriate tools for war are the children of the rich

wait i fucked this thread up

i know this is a safe space here but lol @ "native" European population

US governments have never had a very firm grasp on the Monroe doctrine, dunno if this is conservative or not, basically fuck a nu-colonialist of any stripe

They could be correct on the facts

Except they aren't.

charter schools are probably fine and maybe even good for students overall

They can be fine considered on their own, sure. So long as they can be implemented in a way that doesn't hamstring traditional public schools.

Unfortunately, per-pupil costs don't capture the economies of scale involved. The traditional "default" public schools are still obligated to keep lots of doors open and lots of roofs non-leaky and lots of buses running no matter what schools people choose. Private and charter schools don't have the same obligations - they can open when they like, accept the students they want, and close when they stop making economic sense. Those options aren't open to most public school jurisdictions, so it's not a fair competition.

Vouchers still suck BTW

charter schools are a shell game being put forward by people with vested monetary or religious interests and their (sometimes well-meaning) political pawns

I think Mordy's not denying that. My nieces attend an excellent charter school but I recognize the system is a shuck designed to dismantle public education.

there are a ton of terrible charter schools, too; esp. the for-profit ones.

imo if you send kids to a charter school and there are public schools available you are a scab

are public schools unavailable in some areas?

xxxp plus those specifically geared to produce compliant workers for a hungry industry, e.g., the J.W. Marriott High School for Future Hotel Maids.

Or the Steve Jobs Academy for Immigrant Children with Tiny Hands Who Don't Mind Inhaling Toxic Dust.

Go SJAfICwTHWDMITD, the Fightin' Dusties!

I will give a pass to montessori-style institutions for alternative class structuring but our local public school district has one of those, too

78% of New Orleans students are in charter schools, and all but five of the schools in that district are charter schools

It's one of those things where reform is painted as an impossibility (because reform involves work and administrative costs and is therefore Too Hard) and the solution is proposed to circumvent all existing structures and start schools over from scratch using charters. Areas with economic blight or natural disasters are targets for full shifts.

the other driver has been the bottom-up dismantling of social institutions by republican governors coinciding with national/regional efforts like No Child Left Behind -- demands being put on institutions to change their ways or conform to metrics (shifting metrics, since NCLB had a lot of flaws) without enough time, training, or funding to make those changes. prime opportunity for a charter school that was built from the ground up to conform to current regulations to step in

also conservatives are right that liberals who send their kids to private schools and then oppose charter schools on the grounds that they're bad for the public schools are hypocrites.

if I had kids and lived in an area with a mixture of schools, I'd probably be the parent who makes token arguments to my spouse about how we should be sending our kids to public school but gives up when my partner argues for a local private one

the only private schools available when I was a kid were parochial ones and the magnet high school I went to easily smoked them on course selection and quality of education

i'm sending my kids to private schools. nb that they are orthodox jewish schools so maybe i could cite that as a pass for why i'm not a hypocrite - and the public school districts in my neighborhood are routinely considered among the best in the country - but still, if you aren't sending your kids to the local public schools it takes some chutzpah to complain about vouchers.

the catholic high school kind of notoriously had some non-catholic athletes who were given scholarships to attend catholic high school. hmm.

also conservatives are right that liberals who send their kids to private schools and then oppose charter schools on the grounds that they're bad for the public schools are hypocrites.

Sorry, wrong.

Private schools are privately funded, paid for via tuition, alumni gifts, and so forth.

Charter schools are publicly funded, paid for via various grifts that all basically amount to the government contracting for a service.

I would never send my kid to a charter school, but I'm okay with private schools, the same way I believe rich people can pay for premium home security and premium firefighting services if they want. But charter schools are bullshit.

i think you misunderstand the critique. it's that if you buy your way out of the schools when it comes to your kids but don't allow ppl with less money than you get their kids out of the [presumably] inferior publicly run schooling, maybe it's not hypocrisy exactly but it's something gross. it's even worse maybe bc you're saying that only ppl w/ money deserve privately run education.

Charter schools could be fine and maybe good if they were regulated to within an inch of their lives, but the actual reality is that even the good ones are there to skim off taxpayer funds to enrich their operators, and this becomes nakedly apparent from time to time, usually with no consideration for, you know, the well-being of the children enrolled in them (hey look cheap real estate opened up across town! dear moms and dads, prepare to drive!)

I'm only aghast at private schools when it's clear the area has a really harsh private/public divide that mirrors a really stark income disparity and the public schools are underfunded

my friend who lived in Baton Rouge for a few years noted this was the case in part of Louisiana -- voters who went to bad public schools would get all ramped up for candidates who vowed to cut spending and lower taxes, public schools would get even less funding, and the politicians and moneyed class all sent their kids to private school anyway

the charter school mess is similar -- in some areas, the school board's influence is limited to the public schools and charter schools report to a city administrator. theoretically you could boot the charter company or have financial links to performance and oversight, but it doesn't really flush out that way. you just end up with a line item for education.

Mordy, that critique is mistaking the personal for the political, which is a logical fallacy beloved by conservatives, and I am surprised you fell for it

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_personal_is_political

only ppl w/ money deserve privately run education

if you really hate the people who go to private school, you can say this with a sneer

because yeah buddy, you and the school where the nuns hit your kids with yardsticks, sure whatever

Have you noticed the thread title, TOMBOT

yeah the phrase "the personal is political" and the concept Tom is going for here are definitely different, but conflating the two is actually exactly what he is going for

also, lol Alfred

as a little kid I lived down the street from a family who sent their sons to private high school. they were the parents who had their kids host parties at their home, because at least then, *their* kids wouldn't be the teens driving home drunk

I swear I could use words better to win arguments had I gone to a fake private school paid for with public funds

How many of you attended public schools?

I went to public school for first grade and my parents disliked it so much that they pulled me out and sent me to private for the rest of my education.

well of course! they weren't supposed to attend it with you, no wonder they disliked it

I went to public school K-12, in probably two of the best public school systems in the country. The idea of "bad public schools" is utterly foreign to me

i don't have any friends who went to private school

#classwar

I'm starting to think that people with really good public school experiences are way too few

mine wasn't uniformly good -- we had a couple useless teachers in my elementary that a new principal cleared out, and my middle school had some serious discipline problems until we got a new principal. some sort of common thread, there.

where i grew up my elementary school was i think excellent. the middle school was ok, pretty fun times iirc. high school sucked. i think a lot of it had to do with the football team having like 17 coaches, all of them teachers or staff, all of them being more devoted to the football team than teaching. football is probably, out of all the official activities of high school, the worst thing about high school.

football is a disease and a fascist vanguard and children shouldn't be exposed to it

My only experience with public school was university.

Afaict you're paying for it one way or the other either thru private school or thru your expensive mortgage and high school taxes I don't see a huge difference class between private and public school students when we are talking about well funded public schools of the wealthy.

after high school I realized I hadn't met any gay individuals in 4 years there, and a ton of my ex-classmates came out in the years after. realized when thinking back how toxic the environment was to the gay community back then, it was no accident.

I am guessing it's probably not as bad anymore since the country's acceptance has improved, but I feel like kids that went to other schools than mine had an easier time coming out in high school.

local-tax-base-driven school funding is also unconscionable, in WA it's actually unconstitutional and the state legislature is in contempt of court for taking a million years to deal with it xp

xxp yeah, see, that's actually more of a flaw of public schools in practice -- the ones in more affluent areas will have kids that have had the benefits of living in affluent families and parents in that part of the district might spend more time at the school or donate in fundraisers, etc

in theory, funds are allocated by number of students and the needs of students in that area. in a larger city, that's more flat. affluent suburbs, not so much

silby otm, depending on the state/area how school funds are allocated varies and the different factors taken into account are political

there are a number of rural/sparse areas where schools are becoming consolidated and, while larger high schools are somewhat of a norm, the distance and amount of time kids are in transit to go to school becomes yet another factor. so you have student needs, economic disparity, distance to school, facility age and condition, and so many other things vying for priority in funding

I tend to agree that funding schools by locality leads inevitably to educational disparities that mirror economic ones. The antidotes to that involve decoupling education from the local/state level and basically federalizing it.

Which is a topic for "Reveal Your Probably Unachievable Liberal Dreams Here," not "Reveal Your Uncool Conservative Beliefs Here."

my belief is that no matter how much school funding you give northern florida, it's not going to do any good

I tend to agree that funding schools by locality leads inevitably to educational disparities that mirror economic ones. The antidotes to that involve decoupling education from the local/state level and basically federalizing it.

Thanks to one of the most devastating SCOTUS decisions of my lifetime yet no one discusses it: https://www.oyez.org/cases/1972/71-1332

were you... a baby in 1973? still blame you for not protesting this

I was a zygote, an elegant one.

I was public schooled from pre- through college. Is this really a rare thing?

I was too, all that proves is that a dude who goes to class enough to get Cs can get a college degree

(tbf I went to more like 75% of my classes my last year as opposed to like, 40% the other years)

I went through public schools from preschool through grade 12 and then attended a land grant public university

And I post to ilx

my mom put me in a catholic school in second grade, i'm not entirely sure why other than she was catholic, but i think it was because i got bullied a lot. spoiler alert - it didn't help. high school i went back to public school.

anyway where i grew up got gentrified like five minutes after i was born so i had the option of world-class public schools, which most people don't.

Public/private/charter teacher here. Informed opinion says choice is good, etc., but most charters are profiteering wastelands. And among the charters that are good, many are good /because/ they skim high/low income, ethnic majority/minority students from/to neighborhood publics. IOW some charters good. But many good charters are good because they are re/segregating along the prejudices of the charter's beneficiary population.

Notwithstanding that, teacher workload in well-resourced public schools is pretty awful, and kept in check only by labor contracts. Charters don't even benefit from those contracts. Non-union teachers are often far less experienced, on the whole less well trained, and burn our more quickly than career educators. Until charters will work w/ unions they're gonna stay (mostly) lower tier.

and throwing all the special needs kids and behavior issues back into the local PS system

I'm 100% public school btw, went to a state university too until I dropped out

my high school also produced a rhodes scholar

I live a couple blocks from this high school, went to the city's magnet high school with a couple of the people listed as 99/00 notable alumni
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_Roosevelt_High_School_(Des_Moines)#Notable_alumni

i went to public school k-12 and a public university

same

me 2

My parents were both teachers. Both were reflexively liberal, both believed fervently in public education, and all of us went to public schools PreK-grad.

And yet! My mother taught in Catholic schools most of her career, at least partly because she preferred the behavior of Catholic schoolkids.

My father, in contrast, taught at a military school (oddly, a public magnet), where many of his students ended up because no other place would take them.

I think my daughter's school would be considered a magnet school. I guess? It's public and free but it's apparently very desirable so admission is by lottery. Our district calls it a "county-wide school" (as opposed to the "neighborhood school" where my son goes). She's been there five years and I still don't understand what's different about it.

It's all a vast tapestry.

I tend to agree that funding schools by locality leads inevitably to educational disparities that mirror economic ones. The antidotes to that involve decoupling education from the local/state level and basically federalizing it.

Thanks to one of the most devastating SCOTUS decisions of my lifetime yet no one discusses it: https://www.oyez.org/cases/1972/71-1332

― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, February 6, 2017 4:03 PM (five hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i teach in the school district of the plaintiff from this case. this was the first case iirc in which all of nixon's FOUR appointees were on the bench. fuck richard nixon.

and fuck charter schools, fucking parasites.

cass sunstein argues that saisd v. rodriguez was the end of the court's gradual evolution to understand that the constitution guaranteed social and economic rights.

im a gov/econ teacher and last semester i taught the saisd v. rodriguez case alongside its subsequent state court case edgewood v. kirby (plaintiff won, creates the "robin hood" system which texas has jacked with over time)

public school k-12 then "prestigious east coast private university" -- was definitely at a disadvantage there, and the economic disparity of education in America was really clear to me. Had various classes where fellow students discussed false consciousness and Marxism and the evils of WalMart. I was the only one in the class that had a family that shopped at WalMart, that grew up where everyone shopped at WalMart. Loved their WalMart did the citizens of my stupid town.

Most college students shouldn't go to college. Especially humanities students.

he may have stopped posting, but his spirit still lives on

lol not my own original belief

we both know this

I teach writing and journalism. Mordy is partly right.

Possibly true in the US, less so in countries with a better cost / quality ratio.

Not if ILX is any indication.

I am a strong proponent of the fact most people can learn through conversation, classes, etc. and become more informed and more analytical

then again, I remember the guy who was in one of my college literature courses who was dumb as a brick

It's not that student writing is terrible; it's that 98 percent of it is an unending storm of mediocrity and received ideas.

I think the problem isn't really 'too many people going to college to goof off and read cool books' the problem is our country hasn't set up its funding and cost control very well. it doesn't really have to be that expensive to let people goof off and read cool books.

What else are 18-22 year olds supposed to do with their lives? It isn't like we have the military need for conscription.

play video games? more productive imo than another mildly intelligent bloke misunderstanding foucault passages.

neither of these are very productive

no, but video games are cheaper and don't put you into 20 years of debt.

if we remove debt from the equation ... also, who will pay the living and upkeep expenses for the video game players?

mildly intelligent bloke misunderstanding foucault passages.

i resemble that remark.

actually here's a conservative opinion: we should have comprehensive "great books" style education in high school. (but my liberal side would insist on quite a bit of diversity in that designation). less "critical thinking" skills (that's for college) more "you have to read this to graduate."

college is wasted on 18-22 year olds

college admission at 23 rather than 18 would seem preferable, wouldn't it

you all still haven't offered a credible alternative to what to do with the 18-22 year olds

send the ones who most resemble Jake Gyllenhaal to me.

conscription to build and improve infrastructure

some kind of public service thing would be cool

hunger games style reality show

IDK, some people are emotionally ready at 18. I wasn't and nor were most of my peers

oh, what to do with the adulthood-delusion set? they can study, read, work, socially develop at home - there should be an infrastructure for them that precedes college, including funded study materials for the poorest ones

and social clubs in their locales

an extra five years to work out what/if you'll study at college would be a godsend to most

They should all be forming bands that are a mix between The Stone Roses and Primal Scream with the swagger of Oasis. That's what happened under Thatcher.

paid-for nonsense college is a good step towards universal basic income

I guess this is probably the wrong thread for that opinion

it's less wrong than imago's opinion

why not skip the middle man and just give the money directly to the future judith butler scholars of america

I would imagine that the % of american college students who have heard of or read judith butler is probably like 5%. ilx is not a very representative place.

we should really be working to get that number down to .01%

I would imagine that the % of american college students who have heard of or read judith butler is probably like 5%. ilx is not a very representative place.

― iatee, Tuesday, February 14, 2017 1:51 PM (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

id guess even lower tbh

haha yeah I went to berkeley and I'm not even sure it would be 20% there

you guys might be right that it's a low number but somehow that low number has an oversized presence on campuses and in the social justice and activism worlds - or at the very least they know the name and they know eg that butler said that gender and sex aren't the same thing even if they've never read a page of her work.

berkeley is such an overrated educational institution

did u know at berkeley idiot undergrad students can get credits for taking courses taught by other idiot undergrad students?

idk i don't really feel like those groups/people have an oversized presence on campuses

xps

I got 1 credit for a scrabble class

tbf I am very good at scrabble now

xp then somehow my entire educational career i happened to run over and over into the tiny minority of students who knew judith butler's name. maybe i should've hung out w/ the business school kids more.

i think, outside of prestigious ivys and their ilk, you can pretty much graduate most colleges without reading any book other than a textbook.

It's very Mordy to think that the ideas of judith butler have any meaningful influence on anything but a vanishingly small slice of college students

I read "judith butler" a handful of times just now before finally figuring out she's not the nytimes writer who is a hypocrite because she was for the iraq invasion -- that was judith miller, I think

I mean let me put it this way, I went to an ivy league college at the height of high theory and even I don't REALLY know who she is, i know she wrote a book about cyborgs but I could not tell you one thing about what that book says.

Tbf I lived in NYC and knew a lot of NYU English Lit kids and New School students. I knew more than one person doing a thesis on Foucault. Clearly it was who I was attracting and I got a poor impression from my limited anecdotal experiences.

i guess i know gender and sex are different things but i don't think i know what either one of them is according to judith butler

i went to an extremely politically active university in DC as an undergrad, no one really read butler except for a few people in philosophy classes. i've worked at five other colleges and universities since then, the only one of these where people likely to read judith butler had a large presence was at hampshire college and even there i doubt 50% knew who judith butler is. i could be wrong though

i think, outside of prestigious ivys and their ilk, you can pretty much graduate most colleges without reading any book other than a textbook.

― ryan, Tuesday, February 14, 2017 2:01 PM (four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yea i agree

xp right, i think the absolutely critical point here is that NYU students are in no way shape or form "most college students"

i guess i know gender and sex are different things but i don't think i know what either one of them is according to judith butler

i swear tho that this seemed to me like ubiquitous knowledge when i was in college

a friend of mine is a prof at the local ivy league institution and is convinced CONVINCED that judith butler has infected the minds of all of his students but, like, unless she has grown in stature in the last fifteen years, i'm not buying it. i was an english major at the same institution and read maybe two things by butler in a theory course.

clearly i'm a weirdo tho. if i was drawing conclusions based on my high school experience i'd assume everyone was more or less familiar w/ the works of moshe chaim luzzatto

at least i am awake enough to realize /that/ was not representative

http://www.themarysue.com/judith-butler-explained-with-cats/

do you feel like most yeshiva students don't belong there mordy?

tbh the most widely known and talked-about intellectual at my undergrad institution was samuel huntington

fukuyama too probably. nobody talked about butler and i hung around the most far-left intersectional activists and professors on campus

derrida more popular than butler too among the lefty philosophers i knew

people in the architecture department knew who gilles deleuze was but half the philosophy department had no idea

nobody talked about butler and i hung around the most far-left intersectional activists and professors on campus

― marcos, Tuesday, February 14, 2017 2:11 PM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

that's not accurate actually. i knew one professor who taught feminist philosophy and critical race theory and she mentioned but didnt even assign butler's readings

judith butler is p big with anti-oppressive lesbian social worker types that i know, although many of them did not go to university.

i never heard her discussed in university - i studied mainly 18th century history so the performativity of gender perhaps wasn't germane (gladstone so cis)

do you feel like most yeshiva students don't belong there mordy?

my high school class had 14 students and went down to 9 students as some of the students couldn't hack it. of those 9? i think probably at least 8 of them should've been there. you need at least some bodies to produce the one or two major rabbis you want from every graduating class. obv i was a casualty but i like to think i did my small part to keep brisker talmudic traditions alive for another generation.

18-22 year olds should work and enjoy their lives