Book Group: They're reading Helen DeWitt's "The Last Samurai" (nothing to do with the Tom Cruise movie!) over at Conversational Reading - Maybe we should do the same here?

This sounds fascinating. I just bought a copy from amazon - It's out of print but there are plenty of used copies to be had.

from the LRB:

"To read The Last Samurai for the first time is to experience an odd mix of emotions. With its kanji and its carbon dating, it seems so new and at the same time so ancient. It’s like plunging forward, forward, back, back, back, to swim once more in the warm sea of Ulysses and the Cantos – imagine what Joyce or Pound would do with the internet! Imagine what the internet might have done to them! "

A S Byatt in The New Yorker:

The Last Samurai” is in fact a triumph—a genuinely new story, a genuinely new form, which has more to offer on every reading but is gripping from the beginning of the first.
...
“The Last Samurai” is funny and tragic and intriguing and over the top and perfectly controlled. But it is also— in an ordinary and undeniable way—very moving... It is exciting for the future of the novel that a writer can do all the basic things readers need—from “Peter Pan” to the Odyssey, from “Bleak House” to “The Crying of Lot 49”—and do something new with the form of the tale itself.

and here's what our very own Alex In Montreal said about the book on ILE

Helen DeWitt - The Last Samurai
Words can't do this justice. A single mother and her 5 year old genius son living in London, travelling on the circle line while he reads the Illiad in Greek and the Kalilah wa Dimnah in Arabic, with well-meaning bystanders offering her advice. She slept with his father because there was no polite way to end the conversation, informing the reader of this fact while Ludo interrupts her with the naming of increasingly multi-legged octopus (NONAPUS, DEKAPUS, etc. etc.). To provide him with strong male role models, they watch Kurosawa's Seven Samurai over and over. The first part is Sybilla, depressive and rational to a fault and darkly hilarious. The second is Ludo (Steven? David?) on a quest for his (or possibly just a) father, exposing us to increasingly strange and fascinating potential candidates, and endless iterations of the same conversation. Multilingual, hilarious, pedantic, perfect. I have done an awful job of saying what the book is ABOUT, but it's been too long since I've read it to try and have a go at it.

here's the post at conversational reading with a schedule:

http://conversationalreading.com/fall-read-the-last-samurai-by-helen-dewitt

but i'm sure we can do better than that once everyone has a copy.

Okay, good idea. I remember Alex's review and am at least intrigued and have been since he posted it. However, even though the reviews actually do make pretty clear what it's about, I don't feel like I have any idea what really to expect. Is this thing easy to read, or too difficult to be worth it? Would I, a philistine without any interest in the ancients or in Japanese art house, be able to enjoy it without being forced to do long hard thinking about things which I'm inclined not to let cross my mind?

However, even though the reviews actually do make pretty clear what it's about, I don't feel like I have any idea what really to expect.

i feel the same way and that's partly why i'm so intrigued.

AiM seems to be one of the very few people around here who had read or even heard of it, so we can all start from the same position of complete ignorance!

It's an easy and gratifying read. Perhaps this is what I forgot to mention in my blurb!

Despite all the INFORMATION it never feels condescending, show-offy or difficult

One of DeWitt's big things is that ANYONE can learn this sort of thing given the right time and tools etc. and goes about providing them through the book. Her second novel tried to do this with Arabic to some extent.

It's moving and intelligent and honest-to-god FUN and at least once a page totally hilarious. Also, since the main character (or one of) is an American ex-pat in the UK (and so was the author) it plumbs the divide in a very ILXy sort of way.

And it's not out of print everywhere! Apparently in Canada at least you can order them new, and I find used copies whereever I go.

Again, I fail at explaining the joy of this book. The prose really should do that for itself, honestly.

Ismael, only by reading it will you find out! I've wondered about that very question because I picked it up and felt as if it had been written for me - I'd studied Greek and Japanese and vaguely looked at Arabic, I was faqmiliar withthe places she wrote about, the libraries, the music, the preoccupations (there's even a bit about chicken shops!). But somehow that was also a problem -- she used terminology I'd been taught to dislike, the pronunciation she favours for greek wasn't the one I was taught; and also I thought I was missing out, also, by already knowing things that were being discovered. In Your Name Here, her second book, there were more things I didn't know and so there was more of the joy of wrestling with a problem, and that satisfaction in working something out is I think something she wants to get across. I think it might encourage you into some thinking but not force it.

(there were some xposts there)

i actually typed out this passage ages ago, so here is the chicken bit:

"An American in Britain has sources of solace available nowhere else on earth. One of the marvellous things about the country is the
multitudes of fried chicken franchises selling fried chicken from states not known for fried chicken on the other side of the Atlantic.
If you're feeling a little depressed you can turn to Tennessee Fried Chicken, if you're in black despair an Iowa Fried Chicken will put
things in perspective, if life seems worthless and death out of reach you can see if somewhere on the island an Alaska Fried Chicken is
frying chicken according to a recipe passed down by the Inuit from time immemorial. "

<3

Don't even get me STARTED about the bit concerning the library of Alexandria.

SPOILERS

"There are people who, needing a place to put umbrellas, go to Ikea and purchase an umbrella stand for easy home assembly – and there are people who drive 100 miles to an auction in the heart of Shropshire and spot the potential in an apparently pointless 17th century farming implement."

I'm both of those people.

except i can't drive and don't use umbrellas.

i will read this

what do i do

Um. Let's figure out how many people want to and where they can find copies? We could use the same schedule as those other people (just so we can leapfrog/criticize their discussion as well?) or we could figure out something more amenable to us. I will say that amazon sells used copies of the book for like...$3 so this is totally doable.

i recently got a new copy from the book depository, if you don't want to go the used-from-amazon route. (hdw used to suggest that people who got a used copy on amazon sent her $1.50 through paypal if they wanted, since she didn't get royalties on used books.)

(yeah, still suggests that they do. but i think that's pretty reasonable. her blog alone is an endless source of intriguing thinky stuff)

(sidenote: she recommended Bernardo Moraes' Minimundo a while back and even though it's only available in Portuguese, it's really quite wonderful in a Borges/Lynch/WTF sort of way. if you have french or spanish you should be able to hack it.)

http://bernardomoraes.wordpress.com/downloads/

(when it's not a source of it-sounds-like-it's-been-genuinely-horrible-but-please-stop-talking-about-your-former-agent)

Although I have not read the book, and have no plans to, I would be happy to discuss it to the best of my ability. (... nods enthusiastically... and grins idiotically)

well, YES this is true. BUT when it's a source of transitive properties of arabic verbs or portuguese short stories and so on it's worth it.

Let's stop derailing the thread, though.

~copy ordered~

from local used bookstore (tho they only had it available online?)

Looks interesting. I've just ordered a copy from Amazon. Conv Reading schedule doesn't start for ages - maybe follow their chunks over Aug/Sept?

(I'm not very book groupy, btw. I may go silent if I decide I don't like it, or don't have much useful to say. But I'm intrigued)

Yeah, I've never done a book group-y reading thing before BUT conversation about this is so rare except when I force friends of mine to read it, and then the expectations are v. built in re: me insisting how good it is, that we don't usually end up talking about the book itself and its ideas - just if they liked it and why.

So even if not scheduled, I'm pretty excited at the idea of a bunch of smart ppl I know on the internets getting their teeth into this.

excellent. glad some people have ordered it already. AiM and c-sharp can feel free to discuss the book as long as they don't give too much away or tell us what, exactly, to expect - it seems like one of the joys of this book is that it takes unexpected turns.

once a few people are on board we can set a schedule and that may end up being the conversational reading one although people on here read FAST for the most part.

and i'll probably start a dedicated thread for the actual discussion. thanks all.

I'll be up for it. A couple of thoughts:

* schedule is essential, maybe set it a bit in advance to allow to clear the decks of other reading, and to allow me to get round to ordering the thing

* I like the conversational reading schedule, slower is generally better - the listening club ideas were kind of similar and I could join in for a bit, but I just got swamped and had to bow out when it came to four albums a week. There'd be no fun clocking in after a few days to find keener types already discussing the ending. Fast readers will just have to enjoy savouring it instead.

Slowish schedule makes sense to me - but maybe ppl who like it can burn through it & vow not to drop spoilers or make 'ah, but that's important later on' comments.

I feel like I'm up for this. Agreed on a Conversational Reading type schedule is good and its just now a question of seeing when we could start.

I'm tentatively interested, although am dreadful at keeping this sort of thing up, I'm afraid. Initial burst of enthusiasm followed by promises of more developed thoughts actually followed by buggery fuck.

i'm in.

annoyingly i can only find (at a reasonable price) the vintage edition with the crappy cover.

i like that cover although the us one is probably a better edition.

I'm all in

my copy arrived today. I've a pile of stuff to read so i can wait until we're all in and on board. i'm thinking we should stick to the conversational reading schedule, yes?

so there's me, dyao, gbx, ledge,

possibly xyzzzz__, ismael, GamalielRatsey, woof, Alex and c-sharp for a re-read?

and aimless who won't read it but will contribute thought provoking non sequiturs ;-)

anyone else? the more the merrier.

Hmm, I just got this out from the library, though I really should be reading Bros K, but sure, I'm theoretically in.

Mine turned up a couple of days ago, started reading and enjoying last night - I'll put it aside for a bit, and I reckon I'm in.

My copy should have arrived - I'll check tomorrow morning. Yes, I'm in.

yeah, i'm in, and don't mind a) waiting until everyone's ready to start (whether we go with conversational reading or not) and also b) refraining from spoilering.

I've ordered a copy and guess I'll get it in a few weeks. So, I'm in. I can't promise that I'll have a damn thing to say, though I might have poor enough judgment to say it anyway.

when do i need to get hold of a copy for? my 'current reading/to read' 'pile' would actually now reach the ceiling if i were to turn it back into a single pile, i have realised

as long as I am able to get it i am def in.

thomp, we may wait till early September to start or slighty , but not much, sooner. have a look at the link in the first post, we may use that schedule.

I'm in for early Sept.

cool, let's go for that. any objections.

wth i ordered my copy on monday and it still hasnt shipped

doubly infuriating since the used bookstore i ordered it from is literally two blocks from my house

can you not pop round and be like 'hi, any chance i could pick the book up that you haven't shipped yet?'

don't think so---they said it was available online only, which probably means it's shipping from some warehouse in the burbs or w/e

still it is just weird/hilarious to me to mail order something from someplace so close

Just ordered a copy. I will be on dis ting.

great.

a copy of this is waiting for me at the library, so as soon as i finish up avoiding whatever it is i'm currently meant to be reading i'm gonna take a look. i don't know if i'll be in sync with everyone but i'm definitely watching.

Ok, got my copy. Spent the weekend at a wedding full of colossally pompous cvnts who liked talking about their cars and in general commenting on the world around them in the manner of people who feel they are absolutely right and life is a fvcking competition to prove you are the rightest person of all. (Bray if you agree). That sour-minded buffoon J Clarkson's evil spawn.

Talking about books is good. Bring it on.

My copy arrived this morning. First impression is that it's incredibly fragmented - every page I've opened is on a different topic and in a different style. I'll put it aside for now, but am ready to go.

I stalled 100 pages into this a few months back, after the missus raved about it, so this might give me some impetus to crack on with it...

ordered; has not arrived yet; will not start, probably, until others do

the UK ans UK editions have a different number of pages so we'll have to determine how the pages relate for the reading schedule. i commented on the conversational reading thread so hopefully Scott, who runs the blog, will get back to me with the info i need to find the UK page numbers.

good to have so many people on board for this.

jed_, does your webmail work? sent you the necc info.

some lovely ilxor just emailed me the chapter breaks etc for the US edition

user was cis-dur (i'm not sure who that is!) so thanks, mysterious stranger.

i'll look these out later and post the info, thanks.

xpost!

thanks c-sharp, i got it.

my copy arrived. i then found a copy, in a box, at work.

got my copy

ditto. it's heftier than i was expecting!

does anyone need a copy?

i do.

ok this is cheating but I'm 20 pages in and v v pleased already

have we decided on a schedule yet? i'm finding it physically difficult to restrain myself from reading this

perhaps we could do the conversational reading schedule, but a month earlier.

ok this is cheating but I'm 20 pages in and v v pleased already

― pies. (gbx), Tuesday, August 3, 2010 6:28 PM (3 days ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

:)

Seeing things like this makes me happy. But yeah, let's firm up a schedule, neh?

argh I'll have access to this book in about a week, when I start my job again and have access to the library.

so i'm like 3/4 of the way thru, guys sorry :(

i'll read it again, tho! i like it ~that much~

YAY YAY YAY. Honestly, gbx, it'll be good to have someone else reading it a second or third time. A lot of the structure of the book and the broader parallels reveal themselves on a repeat reading. It's a book that rewards close and frequent returns.

Got it today. Read a few random pages and enjoyed it a lot; it looks very funny. Well, a month left, eh. The Conversational Reading pace seems dreadfully slow, but I guess it might allow people to get deeper into the sections. I'm no deep reader, but I look forward to following what everyone else gets out of the book.

i liked the first five pages a bunch

need to get this.........

Yeah, I read the first chapter, enjoyed it. Not having been part of a book group before, apart from the obvious (no spoilers, or hinting at things coming up) is there any etiquette that shd be observed, or any special structure to the process? At the moment just assuming it's a slowish chapter-by-chapter read through, with general synchronised discussion as we go along.

We need to get our timetable finalised here.

got my copy today!

ok, shall we start september 5th or wait til september 19th to fit in with the conversatonal reading schedule?

i can see the benefit in both, i suppose we have everyone on board who is going to join in, we just have to make sure everyone who is in has the physical object.

i'll definitely have it by the 5th

cool.

I say the 5th. I want to finish Among The Believers first, but no need to wait longer than that.

ok, starting on the 5th with a 4 week schedule rather than a 6 week one.

any objections to that?

Ah well I'm afraid I'm not going to find this but I'll be reading the comments w/interest. Probably revive the thread in a year or so.

can't you get it on amazzzz___on?

I've never bought a thing on amazon (lammm___e, I know). Might get round to finally doing it.

5th is fine by me.

xyzzzzz, email me yr address - tom dot west at gmail dot com

thomp - check yr email.

can i just clear something up, since i've never really done anything like this, but if i set week one as 5th-12th of august, for example, does that mean we read the book during that week and post while we read - or read the book that week and post at the end of that week - or that we have all read the first section by the 5th and discuss it afterwards?

I'll be off-internet for much of September, but should be able to check in once or twice a week. I'll try to drop in my thoughts on scheduled sections, but may not be able to get into discussion.

I've never book grouped either. It's up to you I guess, jed_, though I'd favour the first option (reading the first bit during the first week of discussion) because:

- gives me a little more time to clear the decks
- allows posting in real time as interesting thoughts occur
- means the discussion isn't necessarily just backwards-looking
- spoilers are easily avoided by avoiding the thread
- whereas spoilers might actually be useful, if that's your reading style

(why must my iPhone autocorrect 'reading' to 'Reading'? It's very annoying)

why must my iPhone autocorrect 'reading' to 'Reading'? It's very annoying

Drives me nuts.

Plus it's kind of creepy when you do mean Reading. It shouldn't know.

xyz&c., spare copy in the mail to you today

Thanks thomp!

like… is today the day?

Yes. Will be cracking on and hopefully get a comment or two in as the week goes on.

what kind of schedule are we looking at? the one in the first post is ~ 100 pages a week. could be tough - might end up reading it in one and then just going back over.

from jed above:

ok, starting on the 5th with a 4 week schedule rather than a 6 week one.

so you can take a knife to your copy and divide it by four parts of equal size?

will do :) my copy is 480 pages so ~ 120 each week.

I can't decide whether this should have a new thread or not

if we're doing it in four parts i'd approx suggest (us edition)

1-98
99-189 (chapter titled 'i. we never get off at sloane square for nebraska friend chicken')
191-358 (donald richie quote, chapter starts '20 march 1993')
358-end (chapter starts 'i decided not to apply')

this is top-light end-heavy but the thing is there's a natural break at p190 which one might as well go with.

(tbh it's easier to break into thirds than quarters)

sorry! i'll start a new thread later today & link up the schedule with c-sharps info. thanks.

think I've got a weird edition - it's the hardcover, clocks in at 530 pages.

us paperback is 530 pages as well?

ps that's 'nebraska fried chicken', not 'friend chicken', i cannot type

oh okay - just saw the 480 pager upthread and assumed that's what everybody had. well, guess I'll get started reading!

are we agreed on a 4 week schedule starting NOW?

Yep, fine by me.

Yep, go for't

Is this book about Samurai?

I saw some trailer for the film once and I thought it was. But whenever I see a quotation from it here it seems to be about modern Britain or something!

Book Group: They're reading Helen DeWitt's "The Last Samurai" (nothing to do with the Tom Cruise movie!) over at Conversational Reading - Maybe we should do the same here?

pinefox, the samurai are <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/books/00/10/15/reviews/001015.15goldbet.html";>the movie samurai serving as substitute father-figures</a> for the main character. the book is full of LANGUAGES and TRANSLATION, maybe you will think it is neat.

couldn't open that last link; clearly misread the thread title; think I have been somewhat misled by conversation at rare ILX FAP the other week where I thought all the ILB people were saying this novel WAS the same as that Cruise film.

whoops, here you go:

nyt review of 'the last samurai'

come on board, pinefox. it would be good to have your input.