Batman R.I.P. thread (inc crossovers)

I'm trying to go back through the Morrison run and read it 'as a novel' (morrisons words).

the only thing I picked up recently was the first words of the Joker on page two of his first issue was "I killed Batman".

any other things Ive missed?

I also missed out on the Raa's issues as they looked like they stunk, but now I think I might have missed some important stuff in the cracks between the shit.

Two germane questions:

1) What's the opposite of a black glove?

2) What's Bruce's favorite kind of art?

YOU DID NOT MISS ANYTHING IN THE RA'S CROSSOVER. NOTHING.

Well, except when Batman fell in the Fountain of Youth or whatever that was. That's pretty much the only thing I can think of that Morrison might run with. Other than that, I think the status quo was generally untouched.

What's the opposite of a black glove?

a white spat?

HOLY SHIT UNCLE SCROOGE DID IT

^^ Brilliant.

Barbelith's long (long, looong) running Morrison/Batman thread is a fine resource for finding bits and pieces that you might've missed- though trust me, you're not missing a thing without the Ra's crossover issues. When the best thing in the entire event is a couple pages of Paul Dini writing a throwaway 60's-style villain called The Globe, something is terribly wrong with the entire idea.

While I was resistant to it at first, the theory Douglas is referring to is starting to seem more and more likely after reading #677.

Though they do go way overboard reading huge significance into everything; then again, the BB is named after an Invisibles reference so I guess it's to be expected.

An Invisibles message board?!? Hey, you guys, ever hear of the 21st Century? Ha ha ha!

I have just spent the better part of a sunny afternoon off reading Barbelith's Bat-Moz theories. THANKS FOR NOTHING INTERNET!

Batman = Morrissey?

can anyone summarise barbelieths theories?

its not even sunny outside and I dont have time.

I'm seeing the world "Tulpa" with baffling frequency.

Yeah, they are bugshit for tulpas. As far as I understand the idea it's supposed to be an independent being brought to life by a practitioner's thoughts. Borges' "The Circular Ruins" is a good example.Wikipedia says Alan Grant used the concept in Batman in 1989, while Morrison started in on it in Fantastic Four: 1234.

...but don't think of Wikipedia's summary of "The Circular Ruins," for it is total horseshit:

In Las Ruinas Circulares by Jorge Luis Borges, the hole (sic) tale is about the creation of a tulpa that become evil and dangerous.

Um, no.

The prevailing theory at Barbelith and a few other places is that the Black Glove either is or is somehow employing Alfred. There are repeated references in Morrison's run to schizophrenia, a very pointed comment early on about Bruce Wayne's collection of Outsider art, and a not-particularly-subtle undercurrent of class conflict (try rereading the run and counting all the mentions of the Third World, poverty, and the sins of the ultra-rich). And the ending of the latest issue (#677) is extremely suggestive- I won't spoil it for people who haven't picked it up yet, but think about the possible implications of Le Bossu's last line.

Considering that Grant Morrison has been throwing nuggets left and right from old Batman stories, I think it is all going to end up that Bruce's crazy and institutionalized older brother Thomas Wayne Jr. or uncle Phillip Wayne is behind all of this stuff. Those are some other late 60s/early 70s Batman story threads that Morrison might be mining.

If you are curious about the Ra's Al Ghul resurrection storyline, check out the Batman Annual preview issue by Peter Milligan and the follow up issue in Detective by Paul Dini, neither of which were actually a part of the 'crossover' but are the best reads in that overall story arc.

How soon we forget Aunt Harriet!
(ps, I finished Showcase Batman Vol. 2 a while ago, and it is mostly dogshit)

(I think most of the "best" Batman stuff is pre-New Look, with the pink aliens and rainbow Batmen, and I'll just have to wait another 15 volumes for the Batman Chronicles to get there)

In re-reading the early O'Neil Ra's Al Ghul issues in the trade paperback a couple of days ago, I wonder if Morrison might be leading up to a point where Batman or Bruce Wayne vanishes. In the early Ra's Al Ghul story, Batman fakes the death of Bruce Wayne, so that he can go after him so that he can go after The Demon without fear that he will strike at his public persona.

Considering how much that Morrison seems to be channeling odd ideas from that period of Batman stories, it is something that I wondered about.

It is about two weeks until the concluding issue of the story comes out.

So I pose, who is the Black Glove? I've read and pondered bunches of different scenarios.

1. Thomas Wayne - He's not dead.
2. Thomas Wayne Jr. - Old crazy Bro is a bit jealous and comes out of nowhere.
3. Something to do with Darkseid - kind of a left field thing
4. The Devil - imagery seems to point that way, but not exactly your usual Bat villain, but Morrison kept saying he has been there 'since the beginning'.
5. Tulpa accidently created by Bruce Wayne through his meditations - kind of a Morrison type of idea.
6. Bruce Wayne aka Batman himself has gone crackers and has done this to himself.
7. Ra's Al Ghul - He's got the reason and the knowledge, which you could say about
8. Alfred aka The Outsider
9. The Joker himself - more my theory that he is trying to get rid of Bruce Wayne so it is just him and Batman.
10. Lex Luthor - The dude has some reason to be pissed at Bruce Wayne and has been hinted he has caught on to his ID. It would be kind of like Mysterio thing in that Daredevil book by Kevin Smith angle, so considering this is Grant Morrison, it really isn't a possibility. I'd like to see another big Luthor vs. Batman showdown, as they are really more the same guys than anything in some ways.
11. Jezebel Jet - Lots of imagery shows that she is definitely in on the game, but actually be the Black Glove, I don't think so. Why she would want to go after Wayne is probably the more interesting question to be answered, although a possible hatred of the rich could be involved.

I really don't know what is going to happen to be honest, they are either way out there or way too obvious.

they are either way out there or way too obvious. thats my view exactly.

its either going to be a new bad guy character called the black glove.

or Alfred who was hypnotised by Bruce Wayne to do this as some sort of test. ( i.e. some morrison shit that doesnt remotely stick except in morrisonland)

Not that I'm reading it, but the latest Batman & the Outsiders shows a post-(T)RIP BATMAN Alfred at Wayne Manor.

(law & order music)

as soon as batman dies I'm going to piss all over his grave

Well that didn't last long.

I would like an Absolute Batman:Morrison collection of all of Morrison's Batman work in this series.
I don't want to have to buy all the trades, and would enjoy the hardback binding & size of page.

if they thought that Batman:Hush would be a good thing to Absolute, surely someone's gotta be seeing dollar $igns about this, right?

although the batman: the black casebook will make reading his run more enjoyable to see what he's done with all the original versions.

You know, I read all this and really didn't like it at all. Just canceled my Batscription.

GOTHAM GAZETTE BATMAN DEAD #1 - I went ahead and picked it up. It was pretty much a set the table issue with the supporting cast, but pretty decent as at least SO FAR the story beats from the other titles are seeming to be threaded together in interesting ways (maybe there is an editor on the other side of the phone). The issue also had Harvey Bullock for about 8 pages, which is always pretty good.

While I was definitely skeptical, I think partially as the long lead times was kind of a buzz kill for my anticipation of during the last couple of RIP issues, some of the stuff they are setting up is looking a bit better than I thought and the follow up plans could be interesting.

I read this in trade format, and I gotta say, I absolutely loved Morrison's whole run. Even with the non-concrete ending and reveal of who the Black Glove was and what happened to Bruce (I'm guessing this partially due to whatever really happened in Final Crisis, which I have not read), I didn't even really care about those details as I reading it - the imagery, psychological examinations, summation of all Batman lore, this was just blowing my mind with every page. Also finished All-Star Superman this week - man, I just love Morrison right now.

I wonder how it would read in trades v. issues. I went off it a bit before the end reading it in issues, especially when it turned out to be part of that Final Crisis shite.

I think most modern comics with long loping arcs like Batman RIP read better as a trade than issues, unless the individual issues are setup well to be a 'single issue'. I could not imagine reading something like 100 Bullets as single issues, but then you have something like Watchmen, which is a complete series, but so many of the single issues are crafted and hold up quite well on their own.

I just gave my brother a giant stack of comics starting with the six issues previous to the official start of Batman:RIP and going all the way to Final Crisis #7. I, of course, took the liberty of rereading all the BatMoz stuff before the handoff and was very happy with it. VERY HAPPY. My brother, who only reads comics when I suggest and lend them to him (recent reads: 52, Captain America, Scott Pilgrim), reports no great difficulty following B:RIP and is enjoying it immensely. "Much better than the one with the bandaged-up guy."

I would like an Absolute Batman:Morrison collection of all of Morrison's Batman work in this series.
I don't want to have to buy all the trades, and would enjoy the hardback binding & size of page.

It was quite obvious, but its nice to see something done right for a change.

http://wizarduniverse.invisionzone.com/index.php?showtopic=32679

but it annoys me that, it will be the third time I've bought these issues.

AAARRGGHH it was an April fools.

I'm gutted.

wow, what a cock.

boo! though i'd much rather see a softcover compilation of all his stuff, damn those absolutes are costly

Not sure what happened to this week's shipping list thread but! Morrison's Batman was really good this week!

Nothing happened to the ship thread. Same as last week. ILComix is dying. You know, like comics.

The Death of ILC -- big event of summer 2009. One 7 issue mini, 3 associated 3-issue minis, and tie-ins with 4 or 5 other borads.

And then I Love Cricket takes the mantle and becomes the New ILC

Cooking and Cricket battle to the death for it!

MOTHER MADE OF NAILS

Shipping threads don't start on their own--somebody's gotta step up and do it. I do it sometimes, but sometimes I'm busy or distracted.

I wasn't pointing fingers. I'm not sure if I care if there's a shipping thread on any given week except that it seems like the natural place to comment on the weekly comics. If we stopped them, tho, we could easily comment on comics in appropriate-enough threads.

Summer schedule begins: SHIPPING THIS MONTH: JULY 2009

What did you guys think of "Whatever Happened to the Caped Crusader"? It was a pretty sweet, wistful take -- interesting that it came from the same man who wrote "Arkham Asylum" two decades ago. Definitely dug it, especially the Golden Age Catwoman story. It all hit a soft spot. On the other hand, though, I can't help but feel it's somewhat overshadowed by the immense "What the Butler Saw" post-RIP story by Morrison, even though their aims are different. (And didn't that story come out right before this one?)

interesting that it came from the same man who wrote "Arkham Asylum" two decades ago.

Gaiman didn't write Arkham Asylum, Morrison did.

argh! you're right. my bad.

man i gotta post less late at night...

I did not like Whatever Happened at all. So much so that I didn't even bother getting the second part.

On the other hand, though, I can't help but feel it's somewhat overshadowed by the immense "What the Butler Saw" post-RIP story by Morrison, even though their aims are different. (And didn't that story come out right before this one?)

That's what I thought when I was reading it--"Didn't Grant Morrison just do this?"

"Maybe he's alive here and now and we don't know because...Well, because whatever happened changed him."

My first hunch after that line is that this Oberon Sexton fellow is actually Bruce in disguise... But why would he disguise himself like that? In one of the previous issues it was said that Sexton wears a mask because some criminals did something awful to his face, but it seems pretty obvious that't not the real reason. There's gotta be someone familiar behind the mask, even if it's not Bruce.

Batman & Robin #10 was very good, I think. I'm not familiar with this new artist, but his somber line and the way he draws all that grandiose architecture makes the Gothic ghost story part of the issue work nicely. Speaking of that, have any of these members of the Wayne family tree been mentioned before in Batman comics, or did Morrison pull them all out of his ass for this story? I wonder if the revelation is gonna be that they're all Bruce Wayne making his way through the Life Trap.

The Penitente gang also seemed pretty cool, at least based on the small glimpse we got. Definitely more interesting than the Flamingo, who was a bit of a bore.

Anyway, I think Morrison has done a teriffic job making Dick a new and different Batman, so I'm still hoping that when Bruce returns, Dick and Damian will continue as Batman and Robin, and Bruce will become some kind of a mentor figure to them. Morrison already hinted at something like that all the way back in JLA #8-9, in that imaginary future story where Tim Drake is Batman and the son of Bruce and Selina Kyle is Robin and Bruce himself is in the background, semi-retired. Hopefully that story will prove to be prophetic.

Speaking of that, have any of these members of the Wayne family tree been mentioned before in Batman comics, or did Morrison pull them all out of his ass for this story?

The demon-worshipping Wayne was in a story by Peter Milligan in 'Detective' years ago (one of his fellow worshippers was Benjamin Franklin or George Washington--I can't remember which).

Yeah, according to some comments I read on the net most of the member of the Wayne family tree have been featured in previous Batman comics, some of them as far back as the late 40s. So I guess that ruins the "they're all Bruce" theory, unless Morrison is gonna do some serious retconning.

Suspects:
Oberon Sexton - obvs, economy of storytelling etc (but can an economy of storytelling exist within a narrative that Morrison allows is 70 years and counting?!?!)
Thomas Wayne - stealing some of those good old "son becomes the father" apples from the Superman tree
Dr. Simon Hurt - DO YOU SEE?
Alfred! - It's why he knows so much!
Joe Chill! - "I must kill my own parents or the Batman can never come to be!" SILVER AGE PATHOS TO THE TONY DANIELS EXTREME!

the last issue of B&R made me want to more superhero comics. And then I did, and then I didn't want to anymore.

They should make that Hush dude actually be B.Wayne.

Actually the Milligan story didn't feature Thomas Wayne at all, though Morrison seems to be suggesting that Wayne was part of the same Barbatos cult which featured in that story. And the fellow-worshipper was Thomas Jefferson.

Was that the one where Batman performed a tracheotomy on an infant?

The thing I keep thinking is that Morrison is going to eventually have to also tie Ra's back into this time jump. It could possibly be a cool retcon to explain why Ra's shows up knowing so much about 'The Detective' in the classic O'Neil/Adams storyline, other than Ra's is the Demon's Head and he rolls like that and just gets to know things.

I thought Batman & Robin #10 was great. It kind of captured the feel of those older Batman stories from the early 70s with ghosts etc. I'm good with Morrison bringing back some dayglo to the Batman. I would also be good with bringing back a bit more mystical stories to Batman. I think they have kind of overplayed the whole Arkham gang trying to take over the Gotham underworld angle a bit and some variation is a good thing.

I also give Morrison props for dropping about a dozen or more knew rogues into the mix that someone else at some point could follow up on and expand. Whether they will or not remains to be seen, as way too much of his cool stuff is left on the shelf by DC for one reason or another (like pretty much anything from Seven Soliders).

I'm not familiar with this new artist, but his somber line and the way he draws all that grandiose architecture makes the Gothic ghost story part of the issue work nicely.

He is very good, though he's got that irksome tic (also shared by Dave Gibbons) of drawing kids' faces as those of tiny adults. Small quibble, though.

Was that the one where Batman performed a tracheotomy on an infant?

Yeah! Also, the only Batman story to reference Thomas Pynchon. That story, one of my faves, is kind of a genre-bound dry run for ENIGMA with Batman as Michael Smith and Gotham City as The Enigma. I'm wondering whether that throw-away bit of awesomeness/silliness of "Gotham City as a machine to create Batman" from RIP is connected.

I've been reading B&R and finally went back and read RIP. Now I'm really looking forward to seeing Bruce make his way back. There's a lot of slack for Morrison to play with in the question of how nuts Bruce has always been, how deep the backup personality rabbit hole goes, and whether things we've seen in the past had to do with a time-shifting Batman.

In the most recent B&R it's mentioned that possible clues from Bruce have been found. Are they addressing those in the Red Robin series, or has B&R has some hidden material that they could be referencing?

Oberon Sexton is way too slender to be Bruce Wayne, surely? Also agreed on loving the Dick/Damian Batman/Robin dynamic, hope they keep that around for as long as Morrison's writing the series.

I give up guys, I'm Oberon Sexton. I bribed Grant to write me in.

Hm, if you're the sort of person who's nerdy enough to read Newsarama advance solicits -- i.e. moi -- don't read the solicit for issue #13, as there appears to be an Oberon Sexton spoiler in there.

I see what angle you're taking there, but I don't think that's obvious.

Likely spoilers ahoy! http://bit.ly/dA0Ih6

Andy Clarke = Dave Gibbons + Kevin Maguire

All right, I'm not really well-versed in in Batman characters. Who's the guy in the reveal of this issue?

It's Deathstroke. I'm not super familiar with him either, but I guess the reason Talia hired him is that he is a long-time enemy of the Teen Titans and especially Dick Grayson (who used to lead the Titans). I thought the last page reveal was kinda odd, in Batman and Robin Morrison has mostly used new villains or ones who are well established in Batman continuity, so it's been pretty easy to follow the story even if you're not that familiar with the DC universe. But in order for the reveal here to work you have to know about the Teen Titans and Dick's history with them, and I'm sure there are many B&R readers who were left scratching their heads after finishing this issue, especially since Deathstroke wasn't even named on the last page.

Am I the only one who thought Deathstroke looked kinda too young on the last page? At first I thought it was his son or something, but then I remembered it's actually his daughter who's continued the Deathstroke legacy, and his son is some other villain (or hero, can't remember).

Yeah, Clarke drew him at least thirty years too young, I thought. I haven't read a comic with him in since 1986 or so, and he was about fifty then.

The DC website has just published some notes by Morrison on various visual and character designs in Batman & Robin, and it appears Professor Pyg was inspired by none other than... Momus! According to Morrison:

Pyg’s name is derived from the song “Pygmalism,” as written by Nick Currie (recorded by Kahimi Karie on her Tilt CD and also by Currie’s alter ego Momus on the CD Folktronic). The name refers, of course, to the Greek myth in which the sculptor Pygmalion falls in love with a statue of a woman he has carved, which is then brought to life by the goddess Aphrodite. Pygmalion is the name of the play by George Bernard Shaw which inspired the musical My Fair Lady and which tells the tale of Professor Henry Higgins, who makes a bet that he can transform Eliza Doolittle, a uneducated Cockney flower seller, into a convincingly well-spoken society lady as proof of Nurture’s superiority to Nature. Like Pygmalion, Higgins is creating his own ideal woman, and like Pygmalion he falls in love with her. The Currie song is from the point of view of the Professor’s latest “creation”-”sometimes in the night I sing the songs Professor Pig has taught me”-and brilliantly reconfigures Pygmalion as a story of mind control and rebellion.

Yeah, Clarke drew him at least thirty years too young, I thought. I haven't read a comic with him in since 1986 or so, and he was about fifty then.

I've read some Teen Titans comics published in the early 00s, and he still appeared as a middle-aged man in them. Though superhero comics being what they are, maybe he's gone through some rejuvenation process between those stories and B&R #11?

Last I saw Deathstroke, he was having his throat slit by, um, Geo-Force. That Last Will & Testament of the DCU non-Final Crisis Final Crisis tie-in by Brad Meltzer.

Also, this mind-control/spinal implant biz looks back to Sam Hamm & Denys Cowan's 'Tec 598-600

Morrison made it pretty obvious earlier in the issue, Talia even says something like put in the 'death stroke' and even refers to him as Mr. Wilson. Deathstroke is a pretty big DC villain for over a couple of decades and has been in the cartoons and such, so I wouldn't think most readers would have any less idea who he was as much as some of the other stuff that has gone on in Morrison's Batman run. It's a heck of alot easier to explain than the stuff with the Lazarus Pits. The next issue is the big battle and in a trade it won't matter either way. Deathstroke is definitely Dick Grayson's arch-nemesis, so I do think it is cool that he is showing up in his Batman run.

I assume Morrison went looking for a 'classic Nightwing villain', weighed his options from the Nightwing solo book and decided that Dick Grayson hasn't done a single memorable thing since putting on pants.

I think it's a great pick, but I missed the obvious ref and didn't know Deathstroke's actual name. I have only a passing familiarity with Batman comics, really, so anything in the extended family is kind of a black box for me.

The Wolfman & Perez run on the New Teen Titans (and Tales of the Teen Titans) in the early 80s is pretty amazing, Tuomas. I can't recommend it enough. It was DC's answer to the rise of the X-Men, and I've always thought it better in every regard.

Sorry, Snappin, but I couldn't disagree more. Wolfman's Titans was an overrated snooze, and nowhere near Claremont's X-Men at its best, despite constant declarations of their equal quality back in the day.

agreeing w/ deric here - i like me some wolfman comics well enough (tomb of dracula, night force) - but those teen titans don't come close to matching claremont and byrne's x-men run (doesn't help that perez is such a bad artist and that dc stands for dull comics, but even so...)

On X-Men, John Byrne can suck a bag of dicks as far as I'm concerned (I do like a chunk of his FF run). The Claremont & Smith X-Men I nearly love, and I like some of the Romita run, but I'll take the Titans every time.

Also, isn't Marvel's current twenty books a week guy a spittake on Deathstroke?

I always read "spittake" as some sort of PG-13 version of bukkake.

I think you mean "pisstake", not "spit take"

http://janusmuseum.org/panabasis/spit2.jpg

kid me really enjoyed the Wolfman/Perez Teen Titans (in local b&w reprints, which at point I started colouring by going through all my issues and doing Robin's shirt in every panel of every issue, so I wouldn't have to change pencils until I started another item of clothing...), and found the massive text blocks of Claremontian prose in stiff Orzechowski lettering (did Costanza do NTT?), with constant footnotes by smug nicknames to comics I would never see, and a permanent middle of the story (and only 24pp of the middle of the story, as opposed to the 96pp of multiple stories that local DCs had) to be completely offputting. I've read some Claremont/Byrne reprints in the last ten years and it still doesn't work for me.

but I just bought a bunch of proper colour New Teen Titans from a bloke in England to see if the warm glow of nostalgia will carry those, or Perez' permanent frozen tableaus, Wolfman's ersatz family-making, and generally having pubes will get in the way.

oops

The X-Men is always going to win that argument, as it was able to go on and it had Wolverine which was 'the' popular character of the time and one of the few characters to get huge not created either in the golden or silver ages. The first DC Crisis series and losing Perez as a co-creator pretty much caused the Titans to hit the ditch and from what it seems never to get it together again, even with re-start after re-start. That being said, pretty much both sets of characters are pretty much lost in the shadow of what was done in the 80s and pretty much caught in a vicious cycle of going back over the same stuff (Phoenix, Days of Future Past, Judas Contract, etc.)

The current X-men mega storyline is pretty much a mash of a bunch of stuff -- Nimrod, Purifiers, God Loves Man Kills, Legacy Virus, etc...It is pretty much a greatest hits montage with probably the Phoenix going to be brought out for the encore.

Nimrod

??????????

Was he the Ahab dude from Days Of Future Present who was supposed to be future Cable or something? Or was that guy actually named Ahab? I can't remember. For some reason I've got Art Adams' rendition of him tattooed on my brain.

Nimrod was a mutant killer robot, an advanced version of the Sentinels or something - he was human sized and could disguise himself as a human. When I was a kid I thought he was pretty cool, especially when drawn by JR Jr. There was a memorable issue where fough both the X-Men and the Hellfire Club and almost beat them all.

I had no idea he's still around though, I don't think I've seen him in a comic book since the 80s.

The Wolfman & Perez run on the New Teen Titans (and Tales of the Teen Titans) in the early 80s is pretty amazing, Tuomas. I can't recommend it enough. It was DC's answer to the rise of the X-Men, and I've always thought it better in every regard.

― EZ Snappin, Tuesday, April 13, 2010

On X-Men, John Byrne can suck a bag of dicks as far as I'm concerned (I do like a chunk of his FF run). The Claremont & Smith X-Men I nearly love, and I like some of the Romita run, but I'll take the Titans every time.

― EZ Snappin, Tuesday, April 13, 2010 10:26 AM

just smdh tbh

Not too fresh GM intvu at Topless Robot http://www.toplessrobot.com/2010/04/tr_interview_grant_morrison.php?page=2 says:

Well, he's going to be very chronologically close to his parents' murder. Will he consider trying to save them?

Well, he still has amnesia so he doesn't remember. By the time we see him piecing all that together, it might be too late. But we get to see some of the Wayne scandal that appears in Batman RIP where they try to smear Thomas Wayne and his wife as drug addicts and perverts, and we actually get to see that period and the Black Glove of that time. So it ties into everything.

So, you know, I'm just putting this out there. Joe Chill = a time-tossed, amnesiac Batman. I mean, shit. That's how I would do it. So probably not.

Oh, so THAT's who Oberon Sexton is. I guess I'll have to go back and reread all the issue up to now and see how obvious it was.

Ditto. A bit unfair, though, given that his head looked normal-shaped under the mask.

BATMAN AND ROBIN #12 SPOILERS IN THIS POST!

That was bit of a surprise, yeah. Kinda like a mini version of the Xorn reveal in New X-Men. I guess in next issue Morrison has some explaining to do, because I at least don't get...

1) Why exactly was Joker doing this masquerade? Why did he keep the mask even when he was alone?
2) Given Joker's psychology, how was he even able to play a "straight" character like Sexton for so long?

Some other questions I had about this issue:

* When the Black Glove says that someone is coming "from the east", who does he mean? R'as Al Ghul? I assume Gotham is supposed to be on the East Coast, so he must be talking about some other "east".

* In the first few pages, why is Dick's Batman symbol peeling off his chest like a sticker? Isn't it a part of his costume? You can see it peeling off on several panels, and it's even shown on the "3D" screen in Talia's headquarters, so it can't be just an artist mistake, for some reason Morrison or the artist intended it to look like that. But I don't get what it's supposed to mean?

Europe is east of Gotham, although I don't know that Grant would script it that way.

I didn't notice the Batman symbol thing. Sounds like I need to reread, again..

Someone told Clarke that Slade isn't meant to be 20, it seems.

oh, and the edges of the Bat-logo came off Dick's shirt when Damian whacked him with a spade in #11. It looked stupid there, too.

The sun rises in the East, no?

Given Joker's psychology, how was he even able to play a "straight" character like Sexton for so long?

Shit, man, psychopaths will amaze you. Consider also that Batman as the moon and Joker as the tide.

Removable Bat-Symbol may be awkwardly-executed nod to Dick's temporary Batmannerism.

I thought the first issue of Return was a little weak, but it had moments. I'm a lot more interested in the Grayson-as-Batman hunting down clues left by Bruce angle than I am the Justice League time-jumping, though.

It was okay I guess, but nothing special. Using Vandal Savage as the villain was kind of an obvious choice, but it still raises the question these sort of retcon/time travel stories always do: wouldn't Savage remember this mysterious man dressed as a bat and humiliated him? Why hasn't he mentioned this in any of the previous stories where he met Batman? That's one conveniently timed solar eclipse, by the way.

As for the Justice League time-jumping, how did they even know Batman had been sent back in time? There's been no conclusive proof of that in Batman & Robin yet, but I guess it'll be explained later on. Also, the Omega Sanction seems to have a quite different effect on Bruce than it had on Shilo Norman in Seven Soldiers. Shilo seemed to live through a succession of different lives, from birth to death, whereas Batman is just randomly zaps from one time period to another, no rebirth or anything. I wonder if the difference will ever be explained, or is it just a case of the Omega Sanction doing whatever's convenient for the plot?

whatever's convenient for the plot

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y298/hukl/lettercolumn.jpg

I do kinda agree about enough already re: Vandal Savage and time travel stories. However:
A) Van was the Anthro bit of Final Crisis, a story which this one is intimately connected
B) Van also loomed in some of Morrison's DC One Million event (though can't recall at the moment if he was in the Morrison-writ parts)
C) Who is to say that Vandal Savage won't turn up again and again in RoBW?
4) That bad-ass splash of the Man of Bats hulking over laid-out VS made me wanna listen to http://www.myspace.com/bisoneastvan

or possibly even http://www.myspace.com/haggathaband

B) Van also loomed in some of Morrison's DC One Million event (though can't recall at the moment if he was in the Morrison-writ parts)

Yeah, he was in the Morrison written parts too, but I don't see any connection between One Million and Final Crisis/Return of Bruce Wayne. The only important thing One Million established about Vandal Savage was the way he would ultimately die.

C) Who is to say that Vandal Savage won't turn up again and again in RoBW?

I guess it's possible he'll show up again, maybe it'll be explained then why the present day Savage doesn't remember meeting Batman in the past.

Speaking of time travel stories, I think the final pages of RoBW had an even bigger problem. If Supes & co. have the means to travel back in time, and they realize they've just missed Bruce, why don't they just travel back a few days more and snatch him there? This is a common problem in time travel fiction: the writer wants to add some suspense to the story, so he treats the present and the past as if they were two streams that exist side by side, and you have to act quickly in the present or you'll "miss" your chance to change the past. Whereas the nature of time travel should actually mean you have all the time in the world to plan your action, and if you mistakenly travel back to the wrong point in time, just go back/forward until you reach the correct point. The fact that past/present/future aren't concurrent "streams", and that you have all the time to plan your action if you want to effect something in the distant past/future, was exactly the lesson learned in One Million, but apparently Morrison has forgotten it by now?

You live as long as Vandal Savage you are bound to forget a few details along the way. Dude is probably lucky to know where he left the keys to his lair let alone what went down between him and Batman back in the stone age.

I guess my no prize explanation would be that the time stream just got altered, so only now in current DC universe lore did Vandal get pawned by Batman back in the olden days. While it happened bunches of years ago to Savage, it only just happened now in DC comic time, which means if it is referenced in the next time Batman has a run in with Vandal, all is good.

The thing that I have never seen and seems like an obvious thing to have happen would be to have Vandal Savage and Ra's Al Ghul run into each other a long time back. I'd think there would be a total bitch fight between those two.

Also, pls note that the expository dialogue recalling two characters' previous meetings along with obligatorily glib Editor's Notes citing issue nos went out of style with Not Raping and Killing Sue Dibny.

One thing that's pretty odd about Bruce Wayne's prehistoric adventures is that rocket containing all the superhero memorabilia. In Final Crisis #7 we see the heroes launch it into space, and presumably all that chaos in time and space is what causes it to land 40000 years in the past. After I'd read FC#7, I thought the rocket might've been the reason why Bruce ended up in the prehistoric era. Like, maybe they put Bruce's charred body in the rocket and it was somehow revived during the trip to the past? But later on we found out the charred body was not in the rocket (nor was it the real Bruce Wayne), so it must've been Darkseid's Omega Beams that zapped him there. Which leads to my point: it's pretty damn convenient that the rocket ended up in roughly the same place and era as Bruce, considering that there seems to be no connection at all between Bruce's and the rocket's trip. In FC#7 the whole space-time was collapsing, so the rocket could've ended up anywhere in the universe, in any era.

Of course you can say that it's necessary for the story for the rocket to end up in the same place as Bruce, so why nitpick about such details? But is the rocket really necessary? All it does in RoBW #1 is help Bruce remember who he is, and provide him with his utility belt, which helps him defeat Vandal's tribe. But both of those plot developments could've easily been done without the rocket, so it feels pretty superfluous as a story element. I wonder if Morrison is gonna provide us with some explanation/justification for the rocket later on, or is it just one of those things about Final Crisis that makes little sense?

SPOILERS!

Okay, Return of Bruce Wayne #2 was awesome, wasn't it? I guess it helps that Frazer Irving is an incredible artist, but I think Morrison's plot hit a higher gear with this issue too. So now we know Darkseid intended all this to happen to Bruce... You can forget about my previous complaints about the Omega Sanction working differently on Bruce than on its other victims, since #2 shows this was intentional on Morrison's part. Morrison & Irving had already proven they can do "puritans and witches" type of story with Klarion, but I thought the sci-fi bits here were top-notch too. The visual design for the "archivist" was really cool, as well as his transformation at the end of the issue. Looks like Morrison is bringing back the pre-Crisis concept of infinite (not just 52) parallel timelines with this issue, doesn't it? And was that "hyperfauna" at the end of the time supposed to be the same thing as the dragon Bruce fought? I think it was. (And wasn't the incantation Annie used to "summon" it awfully Lovecraftian?)

It was really awesome. I wrote about it here http://popculturecurator.blogspot.com/2010/05/crossing-distance-between-metaphysical.html (self promotion lulz)

Btw, I hadn't thought about it before, but I wonder if it's significant that the name of the mini is "Return of Bruce Wayne", not "Return of Batman". I've liked Dick as Batman in Batman & Robin so much I've been wishing that even if Bruce comes back, he would let Dick go on as a Batman and assume a mentor role or something. But I was certain that even if Morrison wants to do that, DC would never allow him. Now I'm kinda wondering, is the title a hint that this might actually happen?

I kind of doubt that. If the title was "The Return of Batman" it'd be a confusing choice since there is a Batman right now.

Comics Alliance has a rehash of the issue but did their homework on Morrison referencing Space B. The Animal Man reference makes sense, and I can only hope that somehow Bat Mite was somehow part of this all along, although I kind of doubt he'll reappear.

I ended up on a tangent yesterday thinking about who or what Dr. Hurt actually is. Thinking out loud at this point: He made multiple claims as to he was, including Thomas Wayne. Another Thomas Wayne was a devil worshiper that Bruce might meet at some point. Bruce is somehow "cursed" right now by Darkseid and his return to the 21st century may be as Darkseid's weapon. So there's a Wayne that is cursed that is supposed to do bad things. We see another Wayne have a curse put on him by a witch. Bruce might run into the demonic Thomas Wayne in his time-hopping. Maybe the Wayne curse got transferred to an old timey Thomas Wayne who got fired at the 21st century?

So I've reread The Black Glove -> R.I.P. -> Return of Bruce Wayne

Newest observation: There's been a theme of role swapping where Batman underwent trials to try to understand the Joker. Meanwhile the Joker has been acting as a detective.

Whoa.

Yeah, nothing really deep there.

OK, newest Batman and Robin: Is it just me, or is Morrison getting better at setting up multiple story threads at once? They'll converge, but this is going well.

No, sorry, my Whoa wasn't meant for your observations, it was about how great the newest issue was. I mean, it's one thing for SPOILERS REDACTED and another for SPOILERS REDACTED and that's just the first few pages.

I'm not totally digging Frazer's new computer-illustrated style, although it suits the storytelling, I guess. Does Dick Grayson have a "face", or do illustrators just do him any old way that fits?

I totally loved the first few pages of nu-Frazer especially, gave me full-body flashbacks of Kyle Baker's Justice Inc

Yeah, the issue was still a blast. Some of GM's elaborate long-term plotting is getting ridiculous, though -- there are payoffs to incidental details from 2-3 years ago that I can't even remember. I really should re-read from the start.

Yeeeeeeeeesh, http://dcu.blog.dccomics.com/2010/07/13/david-finch-takes-on-batman-the-dark-knight-as-writerartist/
OTOH, "If you’ve wanted to see a milkman fighting a dinosaur in a suit, in a pub, then this is the comic for you."

Milkmans, dinosaurs, pubs, the three cornerstones of British culture.

BATMOZ: RIP?

DC in poor marketing decision shocker!

The thing is, I really like Patrick Gleason and think he'll be a great fit for Damian (if that's the way that shakes out), but have enough dull, in service of larger agenda Tomasi comics to last a lifetime.

I've only read a few of Tomasi's comics, but them seem full of plot and blood.

Although I guess plot is something.

He seems to do a lot of comics that tie-in to Geoff Johns EVENTs, is a former DC editor. Note the comma.

I'm not at all surprised. I was under the impression that we were in the home stretch of Morrison's Bat-mania anyway. Tomasi is fine (his GLC has been fun enough), but I don't have any interest in continuing with Batman stuff once Morrison is gone.

It will be curious to see how these writers try to follow up Morrison's run. It looks like DC is going pretty middle of the road on everything with Batman coming out if they are going to the current batch of writers, none of which really have done anything out there at all. I don't know much about this Scott Snyder who is going to be writing Detective other than he is doing some vampire book for Vertigo.

Grant Morrison leaving Batman got me thinking what comic character would I like to see him tackle. It probably won't happen as he doesn't work for Marvel, but I would love to see Morrison have a take on The Hulk.

what does Morrison have against Marvel anyway

he did X-Men...?

The Snyder vampire thing is somehow tied to Stephen King. I dunno, I like zombies in my comics and vampires on my premium cable. I don't mess around. And I like Wolfman on my radio.

Tomasi has an unenviable job, and I can't think of anything terrible he's done (and yeah, his GLC was pretty good, not quite Gotham Central in space, but very solid and consistent), but I haven't seem him do anything or say anthing that makes me anticipate his Batman. Surely, though, if I decide I must continue with a Batman comic, and if the Snyder thing gets a reallly awful artist (it probably will), I'll go with Tomasi/Gleason.
Wouldn't mind seeing a Gleason-drawn Guy Gardner/Damian team-up. BATTLE OF THE NETWORK SNEERS.

I was under the impression that we were in the home stretch of Morrison's Bat-mania anyway.

nope, he said he had ideas for another couple of years worth of books

Can't tell if serious, Shaky Mo. If you are serious, then you're in for a treat, as Morrison's entire X-MEN run should be in print still.

I'm not sure that he has anything in particular against Marvel per se, though they didn't break up amicably, and Marvel has gone out of its way to asphyxiate all the life that he breathed back into the franchise (though Xorn and Fantomex and a couple of his characters still live on, but that's window dressing.)

Maybe they will launch some other Bat series for Grant Morrison or maybe like after RIP, he is taking six months off and then will pick up his run in a different title.

It has been a crazy run and I think for people that are following it via trade, it has to be a bit maddening, as really the reading order should bring in issues mixed in. For example, to really make it work, you have to edit in the parts of Final Crisis that tie-in to his Batman run and then really you should have the "The Return of Bruce Wayne" issues as alternating chapters in-between some of the issues of Batman & Robin.

Like they do on those mega-miniseries with all of the crossovers, they won't print it up that way, but really as a reader, especially one that read it as it came out, that is the logical reading order sense of the story. That is really one of the things they don't get right when they put it into the trade for the most part.

Come to think of it, is there a comic that hasn't failed drastically after Morrison left?

Whedon's Astonishing X-Men was pretty good.

That was a new title that Whedon wrote from the beginning.

It was a sequel in spirit

I've read Morrison's X-Men run, thought roughly 2/3rds of it was great. But my question about what he has against Marvel was a serious one - not aware of any other stuff he's done for them

I think just Marvel Boy, Skrull Kill Krew (with Mark Millar), and a Fantastic Four mini-series, but they're all about the most forgettable things he's done.

I can imagine that the extent to which Marvel allowed hacks like Chuck Austen to dick up Morrison's New X-Men plotlines after the fact had a smidge to do with his reluctance to work with them again. Especially when contrasted with DC's apparent willingness to allow him pretty free reign in their sandbox. All of which is kinda weird, as I tend to think of DC as being the bigger bunch of traditionalists.

it's weird how much my loyalties have switched as I've gotten older - as a young'un DC seemed like the stodgier/more hidebound/much sillier of the two and I was all caught up in Marvel's teenage soap operas and bids for "realism" and grittiness (X-Men, Daredevil, etc.) But in my dotage I have zero interest in Marvel, and all the fun mainstream stuff seems to come out of DC.

seconded.

thirded, tho there's still Marvel stuff I read it's def less interesting to me than the DC stuff I read (of course, that has almost everything to do with Morrison being such a unique talent in popular comics)

I love Marvel Cosmic and Grek Pak - otherwise I prefer DC.

Holy frijoles, Batman! I just read Batman & Robin 13 and Batman 701 back to back...lawd that was cool.

bump to fix bookmarks.

Was it just me or did the Jeanty's shit art make large swaths of the new Bruce Wayne! nearly incomprehensible?

I need to reread some more, I had trouble following which character was which for a minute. Guy without facial hair is Thomas.

Also, two Waynes, one of whom was cursed back in ish 2 and in cahoots with Savage and is possibly (almost certainly) the future Dr. Hurt and the other a suicidal passer-by who gets involved. This was nearly incomprehensible the first time I read this - apparently Jeanty drew it over a lunch break.

For those who haven't been following other blogs: yes, MozBats will continue for another couple of years. After B&R 16 and the end of RoBW, we get a one-shot with Morrison and David Finch in October, then "Batman Inc." launches with Morrison and (for its first five issues) Yanick Paquette.

Tits ahoy

702. Wow.

Very impressed with Tony Daniels on this.

really enjoying the Batman - Morrison run on PSP comics.... just the frist 2 issues as yet.

nice to read them all again and using the zoom function to check out all the Zur-en-Arrgh background grafitti.

Don't know what this board makes of digital comics, but all my comics are in storage and I cant fill up a house with trades, its nice to revisit them again.

On the downside, Return of Bruce Wayne hasn't concluded, so we don't know for sure how he got back. However, on the bright side, Batman and Robin #16 is a pretty great return. It actually answers most questions and rolls everything up in a tidy-ish package!

yeah, amazing job of actually wrapping things up before starting a whole new leg with Inc. And so many great Damian moments!

(btw I think Return Of Bruce Wayne #6 is going to be the bodiless future techno-Batman, and Batman: The Return is going to be him actually coming back to present day)

Yeah, amazed how well it works, given the continuity cockups. Wonder if Peter Milligan likes the clever use of his set-up from years ago.

so, isn't that quitely doing the middle pages? like between stewart's opening and irving's close? i guess we're to assume it's chris burnham (???) doing sub-quitely, but the style is unmistakable...

great comic anyway, nice to have everything wrapped up nice and neat after, what?, 2+ years in waiting

However, on the bright side, Batman and Robin #16 is a pretty great return.

is that the one that came out last week? I read it and found myself thinking "what is this about again? Who are all these people?". Sometimes I think that Grant Morrison titles are not really that suited to episodic publication.

yeh, now i have to go back and reread a couple years worth of batman & final crisis and cet just so's i can comp the big picture. small picture's aok though...

but the style is unmistakable...

the style is mistakeable, it's definitely sub-Quitely

We'll find out next week for sure, but it really looks like Barbatos is some sort of echo of Bruce traveling through time with the Omega effect, right?

^^ AHEM

Well, somewhat.

The Cornell Batman & Robin fill-in is really, really good, although the art is awful and harmful to the narrative at points.

(doesn't help that perez is such a bad artist and that dc stands for dull comics, but even so...)

― Ward Fowler, Tuesday, April 13, 2010 10:36 AM (7 months ago) Bookmark

Way upthread, but how did this go unchallenged??

yeah what was i thinking, perez will be almost as good as jim lee when he learns how to draw the human figure, master more than one facial expression/type, remove every ugly extraneous detail that he piles up in his panels, stop 'designing' grotesque and unsightly characters/costumes, abandon his female bondage fetish, avoid relying on inkers to supply all the missing depth/contrast to his amateurish pencils, etc etc

:-/

http://i.imgur.com/NSygA.jpg

if you don't think this is among the best costuming that superhero comics have to offer then i just dunno man

Those panels make me giggle due to so many factors, but those costumes are a+, if a little dated.

Dave Cockrum was a better costume designer.

I just never got into the whole Perez thing. This isn't to say that I think he's a bad artist, but he (and John Byrne) are the link between Neal Adams and Jim Lee (both of whom can be capital G great artists but are often not.)

Cockrum was a better everything! I've never been a big Perez fan at all, and he certainly wouldn't be on a list of favorites, but I just couldn't help but bristle at "such a bad artist"... just seems unnecessarily hyperbolic to me

OTM about link between Adams and Lee though

It's funny, I was reading some of Cockrum's early issues of UNCANNY X-MEN a little while ago, and he sure got *funky* on some of his layouts and text/image integration. And he could do big action. And design. Really an underappreciated artist.

matt m otm abt cockrum's first x-men run - great character designs, exciting layouts that were never incoherent, lots of emotion/expression, and just a really vivid imagination. his earlier work on the legion is gd, too. (he also did an absolutely gorgeous inking job on gil kane on the first issue of marvel's john carter comic)

shame he was so slow, and so ill-served by his inkers on his second x-men run.

I always thought John Byrne and George Perez both had a ton of Gil Kane in their style too, especially Byrne.

http://www.harkavagrant.com/nonsense/sexybatmansm.png
http://www.harkavagrant.com/index.php?id=295

What's the proper TPB reading order post-RIP? Want to check out the books from the library of Morrison's run - last I left off was Vol. 1 of Batman & Robin (Dick and Damian). I'm a bit confused about when the other stuff comes in (Time and the Batman? Return of Bruce Wayne?).

I'll probably get the other Batbooks they have for same time period - I guess Tony Daniels was doing Dick Bats at this time?

Man...

OKAY:

Batman And Robin Vol. 1
Batman And Robin Vol. 2
TIME AND THE BATMAN (mainly as a prelude for ROBW - probably not necessary, really, but it might make things a bit more linear).
Uh... alternate issues Batman And Robin Vol. 3 + RETURN OF BRUCE WAYNE so that you read ROBW #6 before BATMAN AND ROBIN #16

FEEL FREE TO DISREGARD.

Thanks man, I appreciate it

Those last three trades are just a clusterfuck of story. Not necessarily in a bad way (though that Georges Jeanty-pencilled issue of ROBW will test anyone's patience). Anyway, I suppose the only real priority you'd have, narrative-wise, is ensuring you dovetail Bruce's return in both ROBW and Batman And Robin.

Jeanty's a reminder that artists can be pretty untalented in this biz and still get work if they never miss a deadline. Buffy came out like clockwork.

IF YOU WANT MY OPINION (AND EVERYONE DOES - MY PHONE NEVER STOPS RINGING):

I recall frequently forgetting what I'd read the moment I finished a page during the Tony-Daniel-as-writer run.

Jeanty's a reminder that artists can be pretty untalented in this biz and still get work if they never miss a deadline. Buffy came out like clockwork.

Reminds me of DiDio's recent comment (I think David Brothers tweeted it) about his main priority being ensuring a book is out on time; the unspoken extrapolation being, well, fuck quality or intent.

Kind of a weird complaint - I mean, most of the time it's the artist's fault that books don't come out on time, isn't it? There are a lot of reasons for this - particularly the much more detailed style expected from artists now - but I can't really fault a publisher for wanting to have books out on time. Of course, they could just start making a book bimonthly or pay for the issues in advance if they want to maintain a high standard of quality...

Right on about Jeanty though, his Buffy artwork was pretty weak

but I can't really fault a publisher for wanting to have books out on time.

You can fault DiDio for insisting that every single title they publish get three issues banked in two months, stay monthly, and never fall behind again. Well, "fault" if you care about the books being shit.

I may already have said this, but it was a bit annoying reading a story called "Batman RIP" in which Batman (or Bruce Wayne) actually dying takes place in a different comic entirely.

hey but two chapters of that comic appeared in Batman RIP instead! you can't say this isn't the DC era of fair exchange, effendi!

or of running titles that are just loss leaders for other titles.

the other rubbish thing about Batman RIP is that they did not leave Bruce Wayne dead for long enough. I liked the whole Dick Grayson and crazy Damian Wayne B&R run and was getting well into it... and then Bruce turned out not to be dead after all.

don't think Final Crisis was a loss leader for Batman tbh

and he was "dead" for 18 months, that's longer than Superman!

well I mean by loss leader that you have to buy a load of titles to get one whole story. not what people normally mean by loss leader I understand.

18 months still too short.

Just read the second Morrison trade. I doubt there'll be any kind of satisfying conclusion out of this story but holy shit I love the craziness, the occult stuff. And Zombie Batman was ridiculous!!!

Finished up those books. Holy shit. Phenomenal. I don't have the words.

Just Batman Inc. left after ROBW right?

Yep (as long as you got Batman 700, 701, 702 and Batman: The Return along the way, which all slot in amongst B&R and ROBW.). Though the last few issues have been cancelled, and an 80-page giant wrapping them up with some nu52-reboot-continuity-handwaving or whatnot has been solicited for December, as BATMAN INCORPORATED LEVIATHAN STRIKES MICK AND TITCH.

yeah, 700-702 are in the ROBW collection, and The Return is tacked on the end of the the R&B vol. 3 collection. ok, i'll probably wait until Batman Inc. is totally wrapped up, then maybe go nuts on the upcoming hardcover collection of the Morrison run...

did you manage to read B&R and ROBW in back-and-forth issue-to-issue order? if not, make a valiant effort with a couple of bookmarks next time, it really rewards it.

but yeah, if they include the upcoming giant ish in the Inc HC*, that will be a smooth read and perhaps the best consistent chunk of Mozbats overall


*hollow laugh - this is DC, so I assume they will fuck it up

Is there a proper reading order for all this stuff somewhere online? Or should I just trust the cover dates?

kinda sorta maybe

Batman & Robin #1-9?
Batman 701-702?
The Return Of Bruce Wayne/Batman & Robin 10-16 (interlaced)
Batman #700?
Batman: The Return

anyone else? 701 and 702 are "missing chapters" between the end of RIP and Final Crisis #6, so sort of fit before ROBW, which picks up from after FC #7 -- but whose 'in the past' stories then tie in with that month's 'in the present' B&R stories.

I think that reading 701 and 702 later in the game is good. There was some ambiguity about how mentally together Batman was after the events of Batman RIP leading into Final Crisis, and the reveal at the end of RoBW is that even in his confused state, he had a pretty amazing plan. 701-702 tie the pieces together pretty well.

yeah, it would've been better to read 701/702 at the end, i agree

i had to read B&R vol. 2 earlier, so i only interlaced the last three issues of B&R with the last three of ROBW, which was pretty great

got a little confusing keeping on top of both the Damian/Dick stuff and the ROBW stuff reading everything so far apart, but still it works

I still love the entire "Oh no, Bruce is fatigued and brainwashed and has been launched through time as a weapon and we have to stop/help him!" eventually gets derailed as it's revealed that Bruce had a plan and he actually hijacks their time sphere.

To be honest I found it pretty incomprehensible by the end of ROBW but loved it anyway.

A complete reading of course would include JLClassified 1-3 and Seven Soldiers, too...

Also, wait, WTF Batman Inc 8 is already out? [Runs to comic shop...]

By the way, does hints about Batman Inc's Big Terrible Thing We All Have to Prepare For ever appear in ROBW?

kind of? not that i know what's going on in Batman Inc. also they could've just been referring to the "big bad" of ROBW

I believe they're only referring to the big bad of ROBW.

and #8's been out for a month or so! I only got to the shop a few days ago, so -hem hem- previewed a copy when people on another board were bitching about how awful it is, and I'm so glad I did, because this was ABSOLUTELY the best way to read that particular story! Now that I've bought and read the paper version, I'm still not deleting the snidey copy, so I can revel in re-reading it all glowy and backlit and computery again.

just getting around to reading the trade of Batman and Robin. bummed Quitely didn't stick it out for the entire run, some of Tan's art is kinda dire

I was sad that the artist rotation happened during the end when everything really came together. I reread most of the 3rd trade the other day (Batman & Robin Must Die!) and there's a particularly jarring transition between artists. I can't remember what's on the preceding page, but there's one that begins with Commissioner Gordon in a dress and, while well-done, it's a complete break.

that's fated to be the lament about any long-form Morrison/Quietly collaboration. When they complete their projects together you get masterpieces like Flex Mentallo and All-Star Superman. it's a shame.

bummed Quitely didn't stick it out for the entire run,

stfu the Irving issues are >>> the Quitely issues

haven't gotten to those yet

I do enjoy his Joker.

Reviving this one, since it's the most Morrison-centric Batman thread.

New issue of Batman Inc. seems to start tying up Morrison's entire arc into a tidy package. Beware, here be ~spoilers~:

- Batman Inc. #5 (which is very much NOT very "New 52"-ish) follows up on the Batman #666 plot of Damian as Batman as a sort of failed Batman in the future, who has sold his soul to the devil
- It seems that the devil in question is either Thomas Wayne/Simon Hurt from earlier in Morrison's run, or Damian's done the same sort of magic/deal he did to gain immortality
- Thomas Wayne is back in the future!
- It's revealed that the future Bruce saw when he did his time jumping and was at the end of time was the same one as Damian's failed Batman run, and he's put together Batman Inc. to stop things now and also ensure that Damian never becomes Batman

So he basically started his run by introducing Damian, went through the Thomas Wayne stuff, and is ending the arc by showing that Damian (w/the evil Thomas Wayne in tow) is the beast that destroys Gotham (#666!), fulfilling the intentions of his mother's plot.

This one was a good one.

Not feeling Morrison much on everything else he's putting out, but his Batman work over the past year or so has gone from erratic/just sustaining my interest to tremendously assured.

Batman & Robin wasn't hitting for you?

His Batman & Robin run ended over a year ago, didn't it?

Batman & Robin wasn't hitting for you?

Various chunks of it were very good/pretty damn nifty, but only when Frazer Irving entered the scene did everything really click in a "Ohhh, so this is what you were trying for the entire time" kinda way.

everything old is new again
http://www.newsarama.com/24345-best-shots-review-batman-40.html

Man, I found that a really depressing comic to read.

It's like comics are finally taking notes from the Zak Snyder aesthetic. Depressing.

Coincidentally this week's Avengers also finished with a fight scene of two superheroes beating themselves to death, but it actually felt like dramatic stakes as opposed to humorless gratuity. Still, comics eh?