Batman: The Animated Series

I've been thinking about getting the dvds now that they're out, but I'm afraid that it won't seem as good as when I was a kid.

Harley Quinn was definitely a TAS creation -- I remember it being a big deal when they decided to introduce her into the comics (during NML, wasn't it? In the Dini-written one-shot? Or had she appeared before that?)

Batman Beyond had a couple things going for it (mostly the theme song), but they weren't enough, unfortunately.

And yeah, it probably is the darkest American kids cartoon anyway -- can't vouch for anything else.

The Batman Cartoon I Would Like To See: Batman's Planet, on which Batman, Robin, a couple of smart-alecky/trouble-magnet teenagers they've just rescued in the first scene of the pilot, and someone else (Batgirl? Poison Ivy? the Joker?) get accidentally stuck on another planet and have wacky misadventures while trying to find their way home.

(Surely someone else remembers Gilligan's Planet.)

The original cast members voiced their own characters.

(There should be a DVD collection, one or two episodes of each.)

1) Crotchety Old Bruce Wayne. Just fantastic. Old and wizened, but still every bit as dangerous as he once was (if not more, sometimes). Choice bits: the recent JLU time-travel episode, where old Wayne pushes Batman aside, because the interrogation wasn't going fast enough, and a great episode of BB where Terry is looking at various bits of junk in the Batcave. He comes across the DKR exo-suit; Wayne just smiles and says: "Heh. Gave me a heart attack."

2) There's a huge sense of loss hanging over the series. Why did Wayne give up? Why isn't Barbara Gordon talking to him any more, and actively discouraging Terry to continue being Batman? And the Robin costume in the cave…(all answered in Batman Beyond: Return Of The Joker, a rather brutal children's film)

As long as Terry was kept to the sidelines, it was a decent show.

Anyway, I really must get some of these boxsets, because I can't remember much of individual episodes anymore. There's a great one where the Scarecrow traps Batman in a dreamworld, and supposedly an episode where Dini takes the piss out of Joel Schumacher, which sounds awesome.

My favourite part of the series is Mask of The Phantasm, which I think is The Perfect Batman Film. The Joker! The World's Fair! Bruce getting a love interest that makes sense! Lightning across the Waynes' Grave! Much better than rubber nipples!

xpost

I've only seen one episodes of the new Teen Titans, because I can't get past the anime-ishness of it

There was another excellent meta-episode where they were chasing a geeky villain through various television shows; the villain's magic put-me-in-tv techonology caused brain-melting radiation to come out of the television, prompting a hilarious scene where Robin is shouting at the "camera", "TURN THIS OFF! TELEVISION WILL ROT YOUR MIND! I'M SERIOUS!!!" They ended up victorious because Beast Boy was a bigger TV/movie nerd than the villain they were chasing and ended with a completely sarcastic non-moral.

And yeah, I definitely can't fault them for the anime thing, if I were the target audience I'd probably love it. It's not the kind of anime I grew up with, so it's just distracting.

Somebody at Marvel should get in touch with the guy who created Samurai Jack and does Clone Wars - Tartakovsky (something like that). Give him free rein. A Fantastic Four cartoon, done right, that would be worth watching. Oh no, wait, I saw that - it was called the Incredibles.

I would love it if somebody would let Bruce Timm make his version of Conan. The sketches alone are beautiful...

two seconds to THE FINGER!:
http://www.jlanimated.com/editorials/jlu/arrow2.jpg

Green Arrow is ALWAYS saving grocery stores. And convenience stores. It's like Spidey with bank robberies.

What's his voice like? Cause the beard implies that he sounds like Dr Quest.

I don't know what Dr. Quest sounds like.

You'd recognize it if you heard it, most likely. The actor did a lot of other voice work. (I'm looking him up now.) (Holy crap Johnny Quest was played by Tim Matheson.)

Hm, he -- Don Messick -- is one of those voice actors who sounds different in a lot of roles (he played both Boo Boo and the Ranger on Yogi Bear, for instance ... and Scooby Doo, Atom Ant, half the Smurfs, and Muttley!) -- but the Ranger voice is pretty close to Dr Quest. So's Papa Smurf, come to think of it. Except Green Arrow would not sound like Papa Smurf.

*smurffinger*

Anyway, cast list for guest voices on JL/JLU:
http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0275137/guests

"Legends: Part 1" Episode: #1.16 - 21 April 2002:

Corey Burton= Dr. Blizzard (voice)

Jennifer Hale= Black Siren (voice)

Neil Patrick Harris= Ray Thompson (voice)

Jeffrey Jones= Sir Swami (voice)

William Katt= Green Guardsman (voice)

Udo Kier= The Music Master (voice)

Ted McGinley= Tom Turbine (voice)

Michael McKean= The Sportsman (voice)

David Naughton= The Streak (voice)

Stephen Root= Cat Man (voice)

Tom Sizemore= Metamorpho (voice)
Patrick Duffy= Steve Trevor (voice)
Michael Ironside= Darkseid (voice)
Ron Perlman= Orion (voice)/Clayface II
Rob Zombie= Ichthulhu (voice)
Efrem Zimbalist Jr.= Alfred Pennyworth (voice)
Brad Garrett= Lobo (voice)
Kin Shriner= Green Arrow (voice)
Edward Asner= Hephaestus (voice)/Granny Goodness
Jason Hervey= Dove I/Don Hall (voice)*
Fred Savage= Hawk I/Hank Hall (voice)*
Wonder Years Powers...ACTIVATE!
Jeremy Piven= The Elongated Man (voice)
Tim Matheson= Max Lord (voice)
Dennis Farina= Wildcat I/Ted Grant (voice)

Sorry about that.

Oh shit that's Inara from Firefly (and according to Tep, possibly Joss's Wonder Woman)! Yeah, she's great.

My eyes went very big and round when I read this.

(Full potentially credibility-shredding disclosure: I've also started watching Kids Next Door because Lauren Tom and Cree Summer do voices on it and it's often ridiculously funny. There was a recent episode involving a training bra that was absolutely hysterical.)

Teen Titans is on tonight at 10 EST, if anyone -- like me -- was wondering, so they could check it out. Not sure when JLU is on, but Demonoid (thank you Andrew!) has seasons 1 and 2, and a few a la carte episodes.

Pretty much; it's also an extended riff on her "even when surrounded by friends, I am alone" schtick.

I got the first box set and it really is great, as good an introduction to what makes Batman great as you could ever have. The way they treat the Joker I think is particuarly laudable - he's clearly shown as comical, not just psychotic (i.e. you can laugh along with most of his antics), but at the same time he's still pretty fucking scary. A great balance between modern grim&gritty Batman and the character's older incarnation.

Some of the episodes - the Clayface two parter, the Mr.Freeze one - are so unberably tragic. The show's obsessive "sometimes things happen that turn you into a MONSTER and believe me, you sure as hell won't be able to escape that" message is really something for a kid's tv show!

I used to ("used to") have the biggest crush on the animated Poison Ivy when I was a kid - Harley Quinn looks very cute when she's in civilian clothes, as well. Didn't they semi-officially lez up in the cartoon's comics? Perv perv.

One guy on the extras defines the show's visual style as "dark deco" - hits the nail on the head, I think. It's all gorgeous, tho just *occasionally* you notice a slight anime influence, it annoys me every time.

Yeah, this is really key, and I'm glad that "Batman Begins" maintained this chronological ambiguity.

I hate Harley Quinn though and I am not looking forward to her appearance.

Oh, she's not *overwhelming* in it, so don't worry. It's a really great episode! The Joker is *really* scary in the first few scenes, and pretty funny after that. Also:

******************* SPOILER *****************************************

At the end Batman laughs. Or, well, he seems to *try* to laugh - it comes out all abortion-like. It's crazy, and great.

**************************** SPOILER *******************************

The Clayface two-parter is really a highlight of sorts, as is the Christmas Joker episode (which shows that BTAS isn't afraid to go all-out silly when it wants to.) I've a soft spot for "It's Never Too Late", tho - total homage to "Angels With Dirty Faces"!!

Weeeell, it starts with the Joker cheerfully decorating a christmas tree in Arkham while singing that ol' "jingle bells/Batman smells" thing; then next thing you know he's flying off into the air and you realise that the tree is a ROCKET! No explanation is given as to how, why, what, gah?

The whole episode pretty much maintains that vibe of absurdity/awesomeness.

I maintain Batman Beyond was a decent series despite the lame concept, if only for the hilarious Fantastic Four parody. The payoff to the ongoing backstory in "Return Of The Joker" was awesome.

"The Batman" is pure pish, though. I never asked for a version of Batman remodelled to resemble Jackie Chan Adventures, and I probably never will.

And not to come off all pervy, but um, I like Raven's look. Um. Legs.

The Joker waves good-bye to Charles Manson(!) as he flies out of Arkham.

Reasons I will anticipate:

1. Dracula!
1a. ...voiced by Peter Stormare!
2. Joker!

Reasons to dread:

1. "The Batman."
2. No Mark Hamill.

http://img105.exs.cx/img105/8022/serious.jpg

SHOULD I GET THIS??

Seriously, as far as meat & potatoes, just plain good Batman stories go, this show is unbeatable. Go for it.

Overall, the anime influence is more visible on this set than it was on the first one, though still not overt by any means (it's mostly in the facial expressions, especially when portraying surprise, and sudden movements.) Storywise, we get to see a lot more of Wayne's past, as well as a more established rogue's gallery - the villains start to hang out with each other, sometimes with almost "JLI" levels of bickering (tho never quite as flat-out hilarious, of course.) Small extras, trailers and commentaries round out a nice set, but get the first one first!

"Eternal Youth" - Ok, so I didn't watch this one, because I used to have a little crush on the animated version of Poison Ivy and thus don't like to watch her get defeated by mean ol' Batman :(, unless it's funny. Which this ep, according to my childhood memory, isn't.

"Perchance To Dream" - Mentioned a few times on this thread, and with good reason. A perfect example of how the animated series was really good at getting the most out of very common plot devices - here it's "For The Man Who Has Everything", pretty much. Very weird and unsettling - and dig that "Maltese Falcon" reference at the end!

"The Cape And The Cowl Conspiracy" - Espionage hijinks. Not bad, but nothing notable either.

"Robin's Reckogning, Pt.1 & 2" - Robin's origin story *and* him tracing down the man who killed his parents. I don't care much about Robin, so meh, though Batman is as much of a dick as ever.

"The Laughing Fish" - Joker episode, with a pretty sweet initial concept: Joker drops chemical into rivers that makes all fish get disfigured and Joker-looking, then tries to get copyright. Wonderful fish commercial with Harley Quinn, too. A great light-hearted episode.

"Night Of The Ninja" - Watching this isn't really half as fun as jumping around your living room yelling "BATMAN: NIGHT OF THE NINJA!!!", I'm afraid.

"Cat Scratch Fever" - Catwoman stops some evil animal-testing bastards. A winter episode.

"The Strange Secret Of Bruce Wayne" - Evil psychologist/scientist blackmails people by finding out their greatest fears through some gizmo or other. He tries to auction off Batman's secret identity, to no great effect.

"Heart Of Steel, Pt.1 & 2" - Very creepy double parter about an evil computer trying to replace people with robots. Features a very hawt evil blonde robot chick, and sundry "Invasion Of The Body Snatchers" type identity theft. Also, Barbara Gordon, not yet Batgirl but if you know about her from the comics and see how much initiative she has it doesn't take a genius to figure out she'll get there soon enough.

"If You're So Smart, Why Aren't You Rich?" - Enter the Riddler! All of the Riddler episodes seem to rely heavily on crazy, surrealist imagery - here Batman gets stuck inside a computer game. The animated series of course is very good at this sort of visual stuff, so it's an enjoyable episode, but it might also be one of the very very few that feels *dated* - the show opted for a timeless art deco style, and even using computers doesn't disturb that *too much* (comps have existed since WWII after all), but video games just don't fit in, and so the early 90sness creeps in. Also, I'm happy to report the Riddler's clues are as mind boggling as they ever were on "Super Friends".

"Joker's Wild" - Tycoon names new casino/hotel after the Joker to have him wreack havoc and then cash in insurance money. Bit of a snooze at times, but the Joker's always good value for money.

"Tyger, Tyger" - Stunning Dr.Moreau influenced storyline. A very camp evil scientist makes creepy genetic experiments on his island, resulting in a not-too-bright minion monkey man and a more dangerous tiger man. Catwoman and Batman get involved. High on the pathos (one exchange towards the end consists of Catwoman yelling at the tiger-man "you don't belong here!" and him answering "I don't belong anywhere", before walking into a flaming forest), and utterly atypical of Batman, but definitley worth watching. And yeah, Batman recites the Blake lines (in a final VOICEOVER, no less!)

"Moon Of The Wolf" - Sports star uses new drug that turns him into a champion BUT ALSO A WEREWOLF. Very much pales in comparsion to the previous, similiarish episode.

"Day Of The Samurai" - Sequel to "Night Of The Ninja", but much more enjoyable because hey, Batman goes to Japan! And gets told by his old sensei that truly he has learned the ways of the samurai. Also, wisecracking Alfred in a bowler hat (I wuv bowler hats.)

"Terror In The Sky" - Man-Bat. In the first scene all he does is scare some ppl at the docks and eat fruits out of some boxes, which I thought was kinda harmless. Later on tho there's the biggest OH SHIT scene in this whole package, when Man-Bat transforms ON A PLANE!

"Almost Got 'Im" - The most blatant "villains buddying up" episode of the set: they have a card game and tell stories of how they almost defeated Bats. It falls down mostly because their stories aren't all that gripping. Catwoman featured at the end - her romance with Batman throughout the series is really high camp, I have to say.

"Birds Of A Feather" - The Penguin gets adopted by shallow Gotham socialites who want to parade him around as a novelty for parties. A very interesting take on the Penguin - the episode makes it *very* clear that he's not actually the well-read gentleman that he likes to portray himself as, but rather just a lonely, desperate guy who's built this fantasy for himself. Shades of "Phantom Of The Opera" towards the end when he finds out about the way he's been used. Also, is that Hopey from "Love & Rockets" on the bus scene?

"What Is Reality?" - Another Riddler psychological potboiler. Great eye candy if nothing else.

"I Am The Night" - Moaney Batman Whinypants - I guess the Angst Episode had to happen sooner or later. Still, you have a villain called THE JAZZMAN, and some prison scenes worthy of prime-era Cagney/Edward G Robinson Warner Bros.

"Off Balance" - Talia shows up! Rowr! Also, a semi-nazi villain by the name of Count Vertigo - and sure enough, the episode is a huge tribute to the Hitchcock movie of the same name. Great choice in leaving Ras to the final frames - an effective way of establishing his string-pulling credentials.

"The Man Who Killed Batman" - Total n00b criminal accidentally bumps off Batman (no, not really) and gets more trouble than it's worth, especially from an irate Joker. "Batman: The Animated Series" pulls off these "average joe perspective" episodes from time to time, and they always remind me of "The Spirit", who does this type of thing similiarly well.

"Mudslide" - BATMAN IS A DICK! So Clayface is disintegrating, and Batman offers to help, but Clayface is all "stfu". Fair enough. Only later on Clayface and this doctor that's helping him try to turn him back to his normal, human self with technology stolen from Wayne Tech, and Batman stops the process just as it's starting to work. What, so to him it's all about the principle? Couldn't he have at least waited for the guy to turn human and thus NO LONGER BE A THREAT TO HIM before he arrested the two for stealing technology that he'd offered to Clyaface as help, anyway?

"Paging The Crime Doctor" - Regrettably not the Crime Doctor from "Villains United", but Rupert Thorne's conflicted brother. Very awww scene at the end, tho, when Bruce Wayne asks him to talk about his father.

"Zatanna" - At first when I saw this I was kind of weirded out that she'd be the first DCU hero to guest star in the series, and then I remembered, oh right, Dini fetish. Which instantly made it very hard to take this episode seriously, magic debunking villain and all.

"The Mechanic" - The Penguin gets a hold of the Batmobile's mechanic. Biggest geek fodder happens during a flashback, where we get to see Batman's original Batmobile hurrah!

"Harley & Ivy" - YAY!

Crush aside, I think it's pretty obvious that there's a lot of conflict over how to handle Poison Ivy. I mean, the main premise is that she's this psychotic austere figure who hates humans and wants the whole world to be overgrown with plants, but ppl insist on making her a femme fatale as well. In "Almost Got 'Im" she's all palls with the other villains (even insinuates that she's dated Two-Face), and now here she's totally Harley's sweetheart, giving her feminist pep talks and wisecraking all the way. I like her that way a lot, actually, but it doesn't pan out. Which doesn't make this episode any less fun - Harley's deperate co-dependance, the Joker's careless egotism, Batman stuck as a sort of straight-man, the pet names, the car chases! Top marks.

And I also loved "I Am The Night," but that's the 12-year-old me talking again, and because Gordon almost buys it! (IIRC.)

TAS TIDBITS!

Richard Moll aka BULL FROM NIGHTCOURT voiced Clayface!
Mignola apparently designed the TAS Mr. Freeze!

Actually Richard Moll voiced Two-Face, not Clayface.

Clayface was voiced by Ron Perlman.

I desperately need to buy back my childhood by owning these box sets. This show was responsible for about a third of my high school psychology class believing that it's impossible to read in your dreams.
― chi a, Monday, July 18, 2005 2:54 AM (5 years ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

OMG I THOUGHT THAT TOO BECAUSE OF THAT EPISODE
― latebloomer: lazy r people (latebloomer), Monday, July 18, 2005 2:59 AM (5 years ago) Bookmark

lol me too

you know what was an underrated/awesome thing about this show? the title cards for each ep

http://i.imgur.com/5LGer.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/AiY4C.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/xVWH1.jpg

OTM!

some episodes here if you are fortunate enough to have a US internet connection http://dcbeyond.kidswb.com/video

http://imgur.com/a/Evp8d

Woooow.

wonderful

There are no words to describe how much I love these.

Would like a screensaver, that just looped all these.

batman fights clayface in cramped television studio control room while video monitors show kaleidoscopic shifting of disfigured actor matt hagen's pre-clayface roles; clayface goes insane with disassociative grief, madly shapeshifts through assorted old roles/hideous forms before settling on the form of bruce wayne; cops burst through door, guns drawn, to find batman in fistfight with clayface-wayne; "mother of mercy," one says, "it looks just like bruce wayne."

best episode

whoa I just found out that the new Batman animated flick they did to tie into the Arkham series is a full-on Suicide Squad story.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8VV2i-vqsE

Andrea Romano is voice-directing, Kevin Conroy is Bats, Troy Baker as Joker, etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlM-YxFxFjc

this terrified me as a child, nightmarish

When is the blu-ray set coming out? Would buy.

http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20081213113152/dcanimated/images/5/59/I_Am_the_Night-Title_Card.png

Just watching through the Timm Superman series now, and really enjoying it (maybe I took so long because basically I'm not a big Supes fan), but I was AMAZED by the episode "The Late Mr Kent", in which the bad guy realises "HE'S SUPERMAN"! just before the switch is pulled. Whoa. There aren't actually that many Superman stories (in any format) that revolve around Clark Kent the reporter, are there (or am I completely wrong)?

Also, the ending of the first Darkseid two-parter, goddamn

I love the Superman series, way underrated

It would seem so! It gets mentioned a lot less than Batman or JL, at least in the places I've looked. But it's easily on par.

The only Marvel cartoon show I've liked on the same level is The Spectacular Spider-Man series from a few years back. Like the Timm DC shows, it was clearly made by people with a lot of affection for the character and his world, but had a style and continuity that made it very much its own thing (too bad it only lasted two seasons).

the way all the Timm series' fit together is just really well done. The Batman and Superman series maintain their own style and consistency of tone, and then the JL (and JL Unlimited) series bring them together and expand them in a really satisfying way. All the Kirby stuff in the Superman series is also really nice to see (I confess I got a little teared up at this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9n-dHW3ZTTs)

I'm trying to sell my girlfriend on making this one of our next TV binges. She's never seen any of the DC animated stuff, so it's hard to know what she'll think. She does like televisual/cinematic superhero stuff, though, and this is about as well-done as it gets.

At any rate, I finally have all of these series in my possession now (with the exception of Static Shock, which WB can't muster interest in completing) so I really want to watch the whole kaboodle soon.

*throws shade on The Zeta Project*

They haven't put out any DVDs of The Zeta Project at all, have they?

And I guess I also lied because I don't have Batman Beyond yet.

The S:TAS/BB/SS/Zeta Project stuff is a slightly lower quality filling between B:TAS and JL, even JL didn't get great until season 2

tbh I never even saw Static Shock or Zeta Project, was amazed ZP existed when I looked it up years later

never heard of it until now myself

me either.

I think S:TAS is on par with Batman and the JL series

I have no interest in the other series' tbh

I still think S:TAS is about as perfect a Superman adaptation as we're ever likely to see in another medium.

I started watching Young Justice w my daughter and the difference in Superman characterizations is p jarring/unpleasant

Don't like that series nearly as much, so much angsty brooding, everybody is pissed off all the time

batman fights clayface in cramped television studio control room while video monitors show kaleidoscopic shifting of disfigured actor matt hagen's pre-clayface roles; clayface goes insane with disassociative grief, madly shapeshifts through assorted old roles/hideous forms before settling on the form of bruce wayne; cops burst through door, guns drawn, to find batman in fistfight with clayface-wayne; "mother of mercy," one says, "it looks just like bruce wayne."

― difficult listening hour, Thursday, August 14, 2014 3:17 AM (3 months ago)

yes holy shit this episode did something to me as a child -- see also "heart of steel"

"heart of steel" freaked me the fuck out as a kid, so awes

The name 'Rossum' refers to R.U.R. (Rossum's Universal Robots), a Czech play by Karel Čapek, where the term 'robot' was first coined. Randa is seen driving a car early in the first episode with the license number 'RUR'.

shit. this was a children's show??

i know it's annoying to wax effusive about cartoons and no tvtropes.com but the level of artistic intent in this show is really mindblowing.

the riddler? what is that, nygma-- some kind of joke on your name?

http://media.giphy.com/media/wsvYfaCGUoejK/giphy.gif

The Batman Adventures and other tie-in comics to these series were often brilliant too. I think someone mentioned the Ty Templeton/Rich Burchett issues here before and they're great (and I believe that creative team did the majority of them), but the initial run by Kelley Puckett and the late Mike Parobeck should not be overlooked. Parobeck had a real talent for fluid, kinetic art which let the stories speak for themselves without the need for much exposition (alas, it was to be his last extended run on a comic). Plus, the initial run had an absurd trio of villains based on veteran DC writers!

Needless to say, it was often a lot more entertaining than the "proper" Batman comics of the time, which were then grumbling their way through the endless Knight-saga.

Got my dad a bunch of the feature films for xmas cause they were going cheap at fopp & I remembered he likes the Nolan trilogy a lot & also that he had a brief anime phase when I was a kid, thought it would be nice to have some good clean fun to watch together as our tastes don't usually intersect (we both liked John Wick tho)

As people have said, they really hold up, excellent for what they are (nostalgia plays a big part too I'm sure) - basically I think Joel Schumacher is right that these films should all be cartoons. Like I was saying the other day about being made to sit thru suicide squad, method dorks being all "I had to go to a real dark place to play the role of Clowny McBadguy... (stares into middle distance) a real dark place" can't be mocked enough, even those who are no longer with us rip fuck you 2016, cause the correct answer is clearly "I'm not shaving off my moustache for this shit" or "show up, get in the booth, do the lines", both of which result in infinitely better performances

Unfortunately I think they must have heard the people saying "wow some of this stuff is pretty mature for a kids film" because they seem to be trying way too hard in the more recent ones to make it dark or (even worse) "racy". The best, ie funniest, example of this is in the film of the killing joke, where they pull a fire walk with me in that the first half hour is given to a "prologue" that has little relation to the rest of the film. Further fwwm connections: the rather ingenious casting of Ray Wise as inspector Gordon (yes he gets to sob "my daughter, my daughter") and - not making this up - a creepy quasi-incestuous bit of slashfic in which batman bones batgirl. This actually happens:

http://image.newsdog.today/origin_8f57bb1f14517ab5b5c878e9556d6910

it is gross and hilarious

lol bruce's unchanging face, ok i have to see this now

That's from the prologue part, to be clear, and the whole thing is amazingly misjudged - batgirl has a sitcom GBF who gives her relaysh advice

the rest of the film is the Alan Moore silly grossness you'll be familiar with, but well done - hamill is excellent

not making this up - a creepy quasi-incestuous bit of slashfic in which batman bones batgirl.

So I guess no-one told Batman why not then?

Not saying this is a good idea, but why would it be "incestuous"? Is Batman related to Barbara in this continuity? Or is she underage, and what you meant to say was "pedophilic"?

1. a combining form meaning “resembling,” “having some, but not all of the features of,” used in the formation of compound words

I always thought the batman & robin (+robin substitutes) relationship was meant to be read as a parent-child relationship, which is a small part of why people went so crazy about perceived allusions to pederasty back in the day (the greater part being good old-fashioned gay panic obv)? But I happily admit i don't know what I'm talking about here, it just fitted my tortuous twin peaks comparison

But Barbara was never a Robin substitute, at least not in the comics. Maybe it's different in the animated continuity tho, I'm not familiar with that?

She was for a long time a love interest for (the grown up) Robin / Nightwing though, so Batman hooking up with her in comics would be awkward for other reasons.

I think wins is right tbh, the whole idea of the "Batman family"

http://static2.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_small/0/4/14420-2727-16126-1-batman-family.jpg

creepy quasi-incestuous bit of slashfic in which Batwoman bones Bathound while Batman and Robin watch:

https://feexby.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/bathound.jpg

deviant arf

Tuomas, I really don't know - felt like a Robin substitute to me when I watched. it's a mentor/pupil relationship at the least

for some reason I forgot that there's a Jonah Hex episode of B:TAS (using a Ra's al Ghul framing device) and it's scripted by Joe Lansdale! the jokes are funny but kid safe, really good stuff

Just saw that one for the first time recently. I've been slowly working my way semi-chrolologically through the entire Timmverse.

FYI, WB is FINALLY getting around to putting out the remainder of Static Shock and Zeta Project on DVD, thusly sating my OCD completist impulses.

Oh, and DC seems to be making good on collecting all of the Timmverse companion comics. They just finished Batman Adventures and they're well into Superman Adventures now.

I don't know what the occasion is or why it's suddenly 1995 again but I'll take it.

I think they're having some success with animation, but the new projects aren't necessarily good. So releasing the old shows that were actually good makes sense.

my kids are going through the Batman Adnetures/Superman Adventures tpbs, they're v good

the post-JLU new stuff (mid 2000's-on) released DTV is generally pretty mediocre. The Killing Joke was in particular was pretty bad, as you probably heard

xpost Yes, quality control of that entire franchise was surprisingly high. Exceptionally rare that a TV tie-in comic is good for much more than wrapping paper.

I haven't seen a single damn thing post-JLU, and nothing I've heard has suggested that I'm missing anything.

yeah they aren't good. Is Timm even involved w any of those?

i remember he produced some of the earlier ones which but even those were generally below the standard set by JLU

speaking of... I just watched Batman vs. Harley Quinn, which while fairly serviceable, is again just kind of barely above mediocre with some PG-13 gags that wouldn't have made it into the original BTAS run. Timm did produce this, so I guess he's still involved which is better than not, I suppose.

as a bonus feature, they included the BTAS episodes of "Harley and Ivy" and "Harley's Holiday" which were both so much better it was kind of sad that in 2017 the bar has fallen so low

woops, it's "and" Harley, not "vs" Harley. being brainwashed by DC storylines

Watched Mask of the Phantasm for the first time a few days ago. Fun! It's my favourite type of Batman story: a gangster story wrapped around a romance wrapped around a whodunnit. Could have done without the Joker though - needed more ANGST, less ACTION

I am... resistant to Harley Quinn in most formats. I gather she's basically DC's Deadpool now, but character seems hella sexist

she's based on a '40s gangster moll stereotype, so... yeah, kinda true. but many stories since her origin have given her different angles and motivations besides just being lovestruck and "dumb", eventually turning her into a full blown sympathetic anti-hero. (partially why she ended up pairing well with Poison Ivy, who was sort of a femme fatale stereotype rehabilitated over many decades) the inherent jokey sexism she came from gets balanced out a bit, and she's straight-up a really fun character in the right hands.

Mask is still great. i need to pick up that new Blu-ray release at some point

Mask of the Phantasm is the best Batman movie.

Yes.

And, additionally, I don't understand why DC keeps putting out new animated product (I mean, for the $$$ obviously, but still) when they already made the best superhero cartoons ever. You did it guys. You're done! Let it go!

dc in ‘making bad decisions’ shocker

I watched Wonder Woman yesterday, it felt like the first DC movie since Batman Returns to capture a certain DC-ness as well as the Dini stuff does. (DC-ness being a weird mix of soapy melodrama and dorky retro superhero stuff, which is different to Marvel.)

I think you just sold me on watching Wonder Woman.

it’s entertaining! mostly!

it’s easy to nitpick it away but it’s heart is def in the right place and the performances are charming

It's fun! Definitely goes off the rails In the last half hour, but without retroactively ruining the whole movie. Looking forward to the next one.

I love that the praise for the most highly-acclaimed DC movie is still saddled with qualifications (which, TBF, is also true of every decent non-MCU Marvel flick). But I'll check it out.

i mean it’s no mask of the phantasm, that’s fer sure

Well, I'd feel bad giving it a 100% thumbs up as it's not a 100% great movie. But like Biz says, the flaws aren't dealbreakers - whereas e.g. I still wish I could get back the hours of my life I wasted watching Dark Knight Rises. I had a similar feeling about Homecoming - charming but too long.

Oh man, Homecoming was fantastic! Completely exceeded expectations.

But this is not the place!

To give DC props, they are still treating the DCAU with the respect it deserves. BTAS is coming out on Blu-ray early next year, and they're surprisingly still releasing trades of the companion comics (my faith in their follow-through on that front being super low, having gotten burned most recently on the Sandman Mystery Theatre reprints which they cancelled after a whopping two collections).

Is the Superman show any good? It's the only one I've never seen.

Oh yeah. That, All-Star, and the first several years of Byrne & co.'s reboot are pretty much all the Superman I'll ever need.

STAS started off kinda slow but got real good by the end in my memories, same thing with Batman Beyond

I especially dig how Kirby's Fourth World stuff slowly encroaches upon the light-hearted Superman adventures taking place in the foreground.

Wonder Woman was so dull and slow and colourgraded and not-about-a-woman that I walked out halfway through and saw The House instead

same with the justice league cartoon - started slowly then knocked it out of the park when it became unlimited

that's true. though i'd say even by season 2 of JL they were killing it, like with that 2-part Joker ep

the Justice Gods one was also S2 i think

If we want to make this a recommendation thread for the best DCAU episodes, I wouldn't complain.

I decided to watch the recent Wonder Woman movie at motel room rental prices and fell asleep halfway into it. Such are vacation mistakes.

BTAS is still excellent every time I feel the need to rewatch. The balance of the animation style, noir tropes honored and subtly commented on, the little quips that paint Batman as self-aware, sometimes tragically, make it age well.

HFS @ Hopey Glass cameo in Batman, someone was having a lil fun at the animation studio that day

wait waht

I forget which episode it is but bruce wayne puts someone on a bus at the end of the episode and one of the other riders on the bus is v clearly Jaime’s Hopey.

I think it’s “I Am the Night”

I noticed it a few nights ago while watching w my daughter but only just now remembered i meant to post about it cuz it was p unexpected

huh, awesome!

I'd about say Batman: The Animated Series might be the best version of Batman done. It ties together so many of the things from the comics in the right tone.

kevin conroy is def the best batman ever

ok it wasn't that episode and it wasn't some random character it was the Penguin and Hopey's cameo is at about 4:05 here: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x50of14

ha! no chance that’s not supposed to be hopey

It's definitely Hopey, check the coat:

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q166/iagainstcomics/hopey%20style/hopey5.jpg

Now I'm visualising a Love & Rockets animated series that would probably never happen in a million years.

*wistful sigh*

jaime’s style would work so well in animation too

Hopey had a cameo in the tie-in Batman Adventures comics as well!

That is *definitely* her. Nice spot!

iirc Cameron Stewart's 00s run on Catwoman is basically him doing Jaime for two years

https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/how-paul-dini-and-mike-mignola-changed-mr-freeze-forever-plus-other-revelations-from-the

I did not know that Mignola was in any way involved in BTAS!

The blu-ray set is a thing of glory.

https://imgur.com/gallery/D02OcwO is glorious and now I just remembered Herman von Klempt in HB and so this makes perfect sense.

I've never seen the whole series, but I pretty much think the cartoon might be the best take on Batman ever. It is a perfect balance in many ways.

The TV show is the best Batman, and Mask of the Phantasm is still the best Batman movie.

I've long said (perhaps even itt) that if DC-related material can't meet or exceed the quality of the DCAU, the people involved probably just shouldn't bother.

Still, they persisted

Has anyone seen the 2017 animated feature “Batman vs. Two-Face” (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6142314/)? My son has watched it a few times.

It’s pretty bad, but also weird/sad — the voices are performed by Adam West (shortly before his death), Burt Ward, Julie Newmar, William Shatner (as Harvey Dent), etc. So while it’s “cool” that they used the OG actors (plus, uh, Shatner), and got work for those folks, their voices do not exactly match the (young) characters... particularly in the case of West, who sounds unwell and geriatric. So it’s bizarre and somewhat grimly humorous to hear these voices coming from the animated 1966 Batman crew.

(One other odd thing is that Warner apparently doesn’t control the rights to the ’66 Batman theme music, and couldn’t bother clearing it? — so they have use a dumb knockoff of it, like any other fakey production.)

Warner had nothing to do with the show, so it's absolutely fine that they don't control the rights to the theme music

Sure, but it’s odd they would create a new movie set in the 1966 world, and go so far as to cast the OG actors for “authenticity,” yet give it an “off-brand” feel by imitating the theme rather than paying to use it.

How much was the fee, and what proportion of the overall budget was that?

Let me check my records... oh wait, I didn’t work on the production. Why you dragging me on this, LOL?

The theme is one of the most beloved and iconic aspects of the old series... whatever it cost to clear, perhaps it would have been more worth the expense than whatever it cost to hire Bill Shatner (who has nothing to do with the property)? Is his involvement drawing anyone to this thing? Meanwhile, when the knockoff music plays, it just sounds dumb and leaves you thinking, “huh, they cheaped out.”

I’m just saying it’s the opposite of “odd”!

I mean, we’re talking about a direct-to-video feature whose idea of a clever in-joke is a Catholic hospital called “Our Lady of Perpetual Irony,” so maybe I’m expecting too much. But the casting implies the movie will be “going the extra mile,” when it really stalls out at least 14 miles short of Gotham City.

I loved and still love B:TAS and the other DCAU series (well, most of the time), but I've never been particularly impressed by any of the animated specials that have come out since then. It's pretty disappointing seeing that on some occasions some of the same people were involved. The execution always seems half-assed.

man these blu-ray remasters are gorgeous huh

Worth buying if I have all the DVD boxes?

if you’re a btas stan and you’ve got the cash, definitely - the episodes look extraordinarily crisp and clear

check this handy comparison video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LZJ-HJsWHk

i'm a sucker for these remasters when they're done well. they even managed to make TNG look beautiful!

yooooo Bruce Timm made an animated Sgt Rock short film!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtwZvaLbwnI

And Phantom Stranger too!
https://www.comicsbeat.com/dc-showcase-phantom-stranger-first-look/

Has anyone else been watching The Caped Crusader? I'm loving it so far. A sort of elseworlds 40s golden age spiritual successor to B:TAS. I love how they pick and mix elements throughout the character's history - Harvey Bullock is his fully corrupt pre-Crisis self, for example. And given that the original Animated series bible included plans for the Gentleman Ghost (which never came to fruition) I'm glad Timm finally got to give him his own episode.

I have to admit I don't like this Batman as much as the B:TAS one, even if his coldness is definitely intentional. It makes sense that Rucka and Brubaker are involved, as he actually does feel like the late 90s/00s jerkass Batman.

The pilot was fun. Yes, it's nowhere near as good/perfect as B:TAS: the animation is shonkier; Gotham is a bit anonymous-looking; and I'm not really not sure about the weirdly antagonistic relationship between Bruce and Alfred (Bruce calls him "Pennyworth"!!). But - it's very enjoyable - darker without being grimdark - and still a kids' show at heart. Minnie Driver is really well cast (and pleasingly EVIL) as Penguin. The fight scenes are excellent -- you really feel it when someone gets clonked on the head -- it's weirdly fun. All the character remixes are interesting and grounded. I look forward to it getting better in the second season.

i'm not watching it but i've heard that _those_ guys are complaining about the penguin's look

as always, i find those folks absolutely hilarious. "what if the penguin was marlene dietrich but dummy thicc" makes me feel seen as a lesbian.

You're right about the animation and backgrounds - I hadn't really noticed, maybe because a lot of streaming TV animation often has a flat, stiff look, and I don't go in with high expectations (so if the animation and visuals are good, then that's a bonus).

They seem to be avoiding the tragic villain route they used with some of the B:TAS villains, which is fine by me - that feels a bit overused by now

"Those" guys are complaining about lots of things, as they always do; I'm glad I never got into the Youtuber thing, though I do seem to need constant reminders to avoid reply sections on Twitter posts...

Finished the season, and it's mostly OK. I kept expecting the animation to be done on the cheap but it's surprisingly solid, but the writing is missing some juice. A few episodes have nice, zingy dialogue (the Catwoman one), though. What's patroclus weird is that it has one foot in BTAS references (the voices of Bruce and Alfred being very clearly modeled on their BTAS counterparts) while consciously diverging from old school canon.

It seems like a show for teenagers... from the 90s. All the references to US culture from the 1920s to 1950s - that stuff was still "live" in the culture when I was growing up in the eighties and nineties - b&w movies and old reruns were on the TV all the time. I'm curious what kids watching it today would make of it. There were very few good cartoons for teenagers when I was growing up - now it seems like 90% of new art is for 13-year-olds.

Overall I really like Caped Crusader so far. Feels like the mix of set design inspiration from the 90s with remixed characters is a good formula. Harleen Q's episode was a high point for me and Onomatopoeia was fun and I loved lady Penguin. While I didn't dislike the episodes, I'm not really a fan of supernatural stuff in Batman so could've done without the classist ghost and vampire girl ones.

Batman turns out to be one of the least interesting characters, though I find that's often the case whatever medium we're in.

Interesting that this and X-Men 97 came out so near each other.

have i linked the italian b:tas theme song here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThxsDFTG06E

the story is that when cartoons came to italy they decided that rather than use the international theme songs they'd write their own theme songs with lyrics and made them all eurodance bangers

sometimes that works - "what is my destiny dragon ball" is in the same league as the japanese theme (that's the original dragonball, not cha-la head-cha-la) - but with x-men not so much, and with batman... i mean it just doesn't have the same feel as the elfman music.

ok correction
"what's my destiny dragon ball" is indeed the theme to dragon ball z, which i think was called "what's my destiny dragon ball" in italy? anyway seriously this fucking thing holds it's own against cha-la head-cha-la which i mean

that's _impressive_

i mean cha-la head-cha-la is, uh, _eurodance adjacent_ so it's not surprising that italy can bring it with its own version but still.