DC Reboot/Relaunch - Good Idea or Earth Poo?

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It's been brought up a bit in the Grant Morrison thread, but I think it's going to spark some interesting conversation if given a home.

EZ Snappin, Wednesday, 8 June 2011 15:54 (thirteen years ago) link

Personally, I'm not into it, because the rich, messy history of DC has always been one of my favorite parts. I like how people like Morrison were trying to make it all fit together, with the black case book and the like. I like how writers used the mistake of Killing Joke to make Barbara Gordon a more interesting character. I like the long, multi-generational legacies from the JSA days on down.

I saw someone (Gail Simone?) say it is like the Silver Age launch of a new Flash and new Green Lantern, but everything so far is indicating the same character with a new start, not an update on the concepts with new characters.

EZ Snappin, Wednesday, 8 June 2011 15:57 (thirteen years ago) link

I didn't know anything about it until it was mentioned in the GM thread. Took a look at some of the news sites and it sounds kind of horrible. But I'm glad they're putting Barbara Gordon back on her feet. xpost

One site called it the Ultimiteization of the DCU -- sounds about right.

WmC, Wednesday, 8 June 2011 16:00 (thirteen years ago) link

I'm not clear on the specifics, and my one attempt to wade through comics sites to find out more didn't work out. Is this like Crisis (kind of)/Ultimate Marvel, where the slate is wiped clean, or like Zero Hour where a few retcons were made but most of what you'd read before was still canon?

I like rich messy histories, but for every Barbara Gordon in a wheelchair there's half a dozen Star Trek novels taking on the task of "explaining" why Klingons looked different in the original series.

Bill, Wednesday, 8 June 2011 17:42 (thirteen years ago) link

Part of me would love to see a clean slate, I just don't have any particular faith in the powers that be at either of the Big Two to do a good job of it. One of the things that comics demonstrate a lot is that there's a difference between an interesting origin story, and an origin that sets up interesting stories.

The good thing about the Elseworlds, and What If, and the pre-Crisis multiverse, is that they're like Turner's frontier for rogue ideas - they're a safety valve for stories where the writer is going "yes but WHAT IF SUPERMAN WAS A MUSKETEER OR RUSSIAN OR SOMETHING?" and "oh man WHAT IF THE FANTASTIC FOUR WERE NINJAS AND DR DOOM WAS A PIRATE AND THE AWESOME ANDROID MADE THAT FUCKING INTERNET FACE!" And they can tell their little story, and it's fine, because there never has to be any follow-through. No one ever has to tell a story that's grounded on that one. It's narrative junk food.

When you're retelling a familiar character's origin, the things that are going to engage you, that are going to make that retelling interesting, aren't necessarily going to be in the service of writers working on that character six months from now, five years, twenty years from now. It'd be one thing if you were going to hire somebody to both reboot the character and stick with the book for the next five years, but that won't happen.

Bill, Wednesday, 8 June 2011 18:09 (thirteen years ago) link

hadn't heard anything about this until a few days ago and I dunno it just seems stupid, surprised Morrison is at all interested in it given how he felt about Crisis.

In general I hate continuity and attempts to maintain it. at this point the Big Two are only enamored of it because they realize it gives them a huge financial reason/marketing angle to re-do everything every 10 years. oh look Superman's dead? yawn. but wait there was an INFINITE crisis? yawn. who cares.

S'cool bro, I only cried a little (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 8 June 2011 22:36 (thirteen years ago) link

would be funny (also commercial suicide) if one of the Big Two just decided to kill off ALL their characters and totally start over with completely different characters/series tho lol

S'cool bro, I only cried a little (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 8 June 2011 22:37 (thirteen years ago) link

tbh I loved Marvel's 2099 line, esp. X-Men 2099, because they just wiped the slate clean for a lot of the titles and said "how could you do the concept given THIS setting"

low-rent black gangster nicknamed Bootsy (DJP), Wednesday, 8 June 2011 22:40 (thirteen years ago) link

Good idea, will be terrible execution.

all cats are gay (sic), Thursday, 9 June 2011 00:11 (thirteen years ago) link

Not too happy about Stephanie Brown's tenure as Batgirl ending so soon.

And Finch's "Dark Knight" book going back to No.1 after just two issues is a little silly.

Duane Barry, Thursday, 9 June 2011 00:11 (thirteen years ago) link

RT

@Pezdro
We live in a world where DC will give Scott Lobdell 3 books but ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

My Boyfriend Could Be A Spanish Man (R Baez), Thursday, 9 June 2011 00:14 (thirteen years ago) link

Considering how poor their current line of comics is, I just don't think DC has the talent to pull it off and none of the companies have the editorial tightness to hold things right. When they did the same thing back in the 80s, they had a huge pool of new fresh talent both from across the pond and from the American indie comic companies to tap to make it work along with pinching some key people from Marvel at the right time.

They are starting 52 new titles - seems like it could be setup for a DC implosion.

earlnash, Thursday, 9 June 2011 01:39 (thirteen years ago) link

They're publishing 52 #1s, there's no indication that they're starting 52 ongoing titles.

all cats are gay (sic), Thursday, 9 June 2011 02:29 (thirteen years ago) link

i do believe somewhere they said none of them were miniseries

given that this seems to be a dan didio brainwave, looks bad

When they did the same thing back in the 80s, they had a huge pool of new fresh talent both from across the pond and from the American indie comic companies to tap to make it work along with pinching some key people from Marvel at the right time.

So very true--hadn't thought of this. If we were going to get the new Grant Morrisons and Peter Milligans out of this, wa-hey, but instead we're getting multiple JT Krull (sp??) comics

I guess one problem is that since the 80s, superhero comics have become more marginal and insular. Back then, there were plenty of writers/artists who'd grown up with Silver Age superhero comics, and who were keen to leave their mark on the genre, especially since books like Swamp Thing, Watchmen or DKR had widened the spectrum of what you could do with superhero comics, and at the same time widened their audience too. But nowadays, there's a smaller number of young writers/artists who've grown up with superheroes, the main audience for superhero comics seems to be adults who've read them for 20+ years, and the main driving force behind seems to be nostalgia rather than innovation/expansion. So it's not surprising if young, talented artists and writers rather put their energies into other types of comics than superheroes.

Tuomas, Thursday, 9 June 2011 13:49 (thirteen years ago) link

There is a minor talent infusion going on, but it's nowhere near the scale that DC will need to keep something like this rolling. Particularly when the truth of it is that this is a lottta lotta franchise maintenance and I'm not sure there's five stories that demand to be told in the whole lot of these relaunches. The return to 90s aesthetic as evidenced by the particularly terrifying TEEN TITANS and HAWK AND DOVE relaunch convinced me that this was a great boardroom pitch that wasn't thought through.

But a Simon Bisley DEATHSTROKE book? I'd probably buy that. (Too bad he's jut doing a cover. For the first issue. Maybe some others.)

Matt M., Thursday, 9 June 2011 14:23 (thirteen years ago) link

Love that Biz keeps randomly* doing chunks of Hellblazer issues every couple of months. Especially because the regular artists are so horrible, it feels like justification for my inertia in not dropping the series out of half-interest in where Milligan's going, and not rly having any other monthly books on my order.

*ok, sometimes when there's a 70s scene

all cats are gay (sic), Thursday, 9 June 2011 14:58 (thirteen years ago) link

Milligan doing Shade again is one of the few things I'm looking forward to.

EZ Snappin, Thursday, 9 June 2011 15:03 (thirteen years ago) link

I bought #1, it is ...well, I'm not buying #2

all cats are gay (sic), Thursday, 9 June 2011 15:07 (thirteen years ago) link

Not the Flashpoint thing, which looked horrible in the store, but it's a Geoff Johns spin-off so I expect nothing - he's getting Shade as a relaunch too.

EZ Snappin, Thursday, 9 June 2011 15:16 (thirteen years ago) link

Yeah but the Flashpoint thing is setting the tone for that - it's continuity-mired blah with the Ditko Shade, rather than the Milligan one per se, as leader of a Forgotten Heroes group or some such, I read it last night and can't even remember. Fair enough that the artist got bored and wandered off halfway through too.

all cats are gay (sic), Thursday, 9 June 2011 15:22 (thirteen years ago) link

Really? Ugh. That sucks. As I said, I just flipped through it.

I kinda hate Ditko Shade.

EZ Snappin, Thursday, 9 June 2011 15:23 (thirteen years ago) link

Milligan Shade was in his Hellblazer run though! But vanished mid-storyline it seemed, perhaps due to this impending Didio nonsense as per Swamp Thing.

all cats are gay (sic), Thursday, 9 June 2011 15:25 (thirteen years ago) link

I fell off the Hellblazer bandwagon almost twenty years ago. Worth reading this latest Milligan run?

EZ Snappin, Thursday, 9 June 2011 15:28 (thirteen years ago) link

I feel like this is just an excuse to publish more fucking origin stories, because they're the only good stories DC has any more.

Has mainstream DC published a good story not written by Grant Morrison in the past three years -- apart from maybe Batwoman and that Jimmy Olsen thingummy?

Chuck_Tatum, Thursday, 9 June 2011 19:27 (thirteen years ago) link

I mean, there was a period around 2008 when even Geoff Johns was writing fun comics, but that seems to be over now.

Chuck_Tatum, Thursday, 9 June 2011 19:28 (thirteen years ago) link

Because I'm a feeble masochist I've just downloaded 12 Flashpoint spin-offs to read and report back on.

Chuck_Tatum, Thursday, 9 June 2011 19:33 (thirteen years ago) link

Please do! I'm avoiding Flashpoint like the Geoff Johns plague it is.

As far as decent DC stories, I liked Paul Cornell's Lex storyline in Action Comics, and some of Gail Simone's Secret Six. But the core titles - Superman, JLA, Titans, Green Lantern, Flash, non-GM Batman - all crap as far as I can tell. I tried that Snyder Detective for a bit but it was really lame. Can't believe he's the great new hope for the DCU.

EZ Snappin, Thursday, 9 June 2011 19:44 (thirteen years ago) link

Yeah, I was going to mention both the Lex storyline and Secret Six. On the other hand, I feel like this phenomenon - that the titles on the fringe of the mainstream setting, the spandrels, are more interesting than the main event - has always been true of DC, or at least since I was a kid thirty years ago. So I don't see it as a description of their current condition so much as just part of what it means to be DC Comics.

Bill, Thursday, 9 June 2011 19:56 (thirteen years ago) link

Having wandered off from comics nearly completely for a decade, then coming back due to writers like Morrison and company, I'm kind of amazed by part of the current writing landscape.

Scott Lobdell and Fabian Nicieza were among the writers who made me * leave * comics when I bought mostly Marvel books in the 90s. Now they've set up shop at DC?

mh, Thursday, 9 June 2011 20:10 (thirteen years ago) link

The Superman titles were actually pretty good a couple years back when they reverted to the old-school 'Triangle' numbering system. But that came to a screeching halt, thanks to our mang Straczynski.

This is a fine idea for DC. Which I say only because Batman Inc., the Green Lantern titles (though possibly for not much longer) and Cornell's Action are the only mainstream titles of theirs I'm picking up at this point. I got slowly chased away from everything else they were doing by ever-increasing unreadability, a lack of fun, shitty art, confounding continuity knots, and a general "why do you feel so uncompelled to make me give a shit?" factor across the board. When I saw that this Flashpoint mess involved a dozen Elseworlds-ish minis written mostly by people I've never heard of, I felt like I made the right choice. It's a sinking ship, and they need someone to plug the leak quickly. Resetting the clock ain't gonna do the trick.

Oh, and DC? If this plan of yours causes Xombi to get prematurely cancelled a second time, we're gonna have words.

(And not to stray too far off topic, but...why would you start publishing a Xombi ongoing without a trade or something that gave readers a point of reference for an obscure character that hasn't been around for 15 years? Ugh, DC. Ugh.)

SNEEZED GOING DOWN STEPS, PAIN WHEN PUTTING SOCKS ON (Deric W. Haircare), Thursday, 9 June 2011 20:11 (thirteen years ago) link

I know ppl hate Nicieza but I loved his Psi-Force back in the day and I also loved his X-Force

plus, he is partially responsible for Deadpool, who has turned into a fantastic character

low-rent black gangster nicknamed Bootsy (DJP), Thursday, 9 June 2011 20:12 (thirteen years ago) link

You realize you just went from This is a fine idea for DC to Resetting the clock ain't gonna do the trick. in the same paragraph, right?

mh, Thursday, 9 June 2011 20:13 (thirteen years ago) link

I'm not saying Lobdell and Nicieza are bad across the board, just that their decent ideas are kind of buried under a lot of soap opera drama that's way sub-Peter David level and some embarrassingly-paced action.

mh, Thursday, 9 June 2011 20:15 (thirteen years ago) link

This is a fine idea for DC because I largely don't give two shits about DC, is the implication there, you see.

SNEEZED GOING DOWN STEPS, PAIN WHEN PUTTING SOCKS ON (Deric W. Haircare), Thursday, 9 June 2011 20:18 (thirteen years ago) link

Ah, I see. I thought maybe you were hoping it'd make a few more series palatable!

mh, Thursday, 9 June 2011 20:19 (thirteen years ago) link

Nicieza's Thunderbolts (at least the stretch of it I read) was some of the most unreadable garbage I have ever encountered in mainstream comics. Which is really saying something.

SNEEZED GOING DOWN STEPS, PAIN WHEN PUTTING SOCKS ON (Deric W. Haircare), Thursday, 9 June 2011 20:20 (thirteen years ago) link

My perspective is that all I'm really paying attention to is stuff by a few token writers (Morrison, sometimes Milligan on Hellblazer and such) and that their larger plans seem to be screwing up the Batman Inc. plot outline and messing with throwing a few Vertigo characters into mainstream continuity.

mh, Thursday, 9 June 2011 20:21 (thirteen years ago) link

xxpost

Well, I'd be all right with that (my pocketbook, slightly less so). I just don't hold out much hope for that being the case. DC's tendency of late has been to pull stunts like this renumbering nonsense rather than trying to double down on the quality. Whereas the mean level of quality at Marvel has never been higher (especially when you factor in the ungodly number of books they're putting out in a month).

SNEEZED GOING DOWN STEPS, PAIN WHEN PUTTING SOCKS ON (Deric W. Haircare), Thursday, 9 June 2011 20:23 (thirteen years ago) link

not sure I ever read Nicieza's Thunderbolts tbh

having a difficult time believing it was worse than Jeph Loeb tho

low-rent black gangster nicknamed Bootsy (DJP), Thursday, 9 June 2011 20:23 (thirteen years ago) link

Other good, maybe great, DC titles are Jonah Hex and Zatanna.

4, 5, 6, The monkey's got a hockey stick (aldo), Thursday, 9 June 2011 20:24 (thirteen years ago) link

Oh god, Jeph Loeb, why did I think "Hey, people seem to like this Batman thing he did, I guess I'll read it!"

Then again, at least it wasn't his work on Ultimates

mh, Thursday, 9 June 2011 20:27 (thirteen years ago) link

"the mean level of quality at Marvel" isn't higher than between 1965-1977, imho, though a friend of mine said to me that quesada was the best marvel editor-in-chief since roy thomas, and i agreed w him on that

Ward Fowler, Thursday, 9 June 2011 20:30 (thirteen years ago) link

they should just let Neal Adams helm this whole thing imho

Loeb maintains a consistently low level of quality. Eye-rollingly awful at all times. But I will still give him the smallest amount of credit for being able to tell something resembling a coherent story, however bland and stupid that story may be. I (tried to) read three or four of Nicieza's Thunderbolts trades, and I have no idea what the hell was going on most of the time. It had something in common with the "throw shit at the wall and see what sticks" style of storytelling employed by little kids, changing the narrative up almost panel-by-panel at times, except that it was boring and bad and not even a little bit fun.

SNEEZED GOING DOWN STEPS, PAIN WHEN PUTTING SOCKS ON (Deric W. Haircare), Thursday, 9 June 2011 20:32 (thirteen years ago) link

Ha ha. I knew someone would call me on that, Ward, which is why I threw in the qualifier about the number of titles they're currently putting out. No question about the quality of the period you mention, but it's gotta be tough maintaining high standards when you're publishing 50 books in a month.

SNEEZED GOING DOWN STEPS, PAIN WHEN PUTTING SOCKS ON (Deric W. Haircare), Thursday, 9 June 2011 20:35 (thirteen years ago) link

Yeah, Loeb's work reminds me of what would happen if you did a rough plot outline and then wrote as little dialogue and exposition as possible.

Nicieza kind of... comes up with an idea or two and then the characters do random things for an issue or two and then either the situation resolves or something is revealed.

mh, Thursday, 9 June 2011 20:36 (thirteen years ago) link

I gotta admit... I loved what I read of Nicieza's Thunderbolts run, couldn't believe he wrote it. Some of his Cable and Deadpool stuff was great too.

Nhex, Friday, 10 June 2011 00:04 (thirteen years ago) link

I fell off the Hellblazer bandwagon almost twenty years ago. Worth reading this latest Milligan run?
― EZ Snappin, Friday, 10 June 2011 01:28 (9 hours ago)

If you can get it from a library, sure. If it was drawn well, I’d say ABSOLUTELY!, but the clunkiness of the art I would expect make it a pain and exhausting to try and read all two years worth or whatever. I started out just buying an issue now and then, eventually put it on my order bcz I like knowing there’ll be something for me every time I go to the comic shop and there are approx 0 non-Big 3 or licensed floppies available through Diamond these days, and then whenever I think “jeez this isn’t really giving me five bucks entertainment each month” he’ll go “but look, a multipart story with Shade in it,” or “hey, have a full issue of punk-era grottiness painted by Bisley” and I’m like “aw go on then.”

Has mainstream DC published a good story not written by Grant Morrison in the past three years -- apart from maybe Batwoman and that Jimmy Olsen thingummy?
― Chuck_Tatum, Friday, 10 June 2011 05:27 (5 hours ago)

Ha ha not really, and I’ve bought a bunch out of the reason above. Bought the Giffen Doom Patrol for the Giffen/DeMatteis/Maguire Metal Men backup, but the main book was pants. Bought the Giffen/DeMatteis Booster Gold and the first two issues were really good, but went nowhere p fast and they got dumped to make room for crossovers and reboots. Cornell’s Action was great fun for a few issues, but then every issue became a crossover with something I hadn’t read and couldn’t follow, and then they dropped the Jimmy Olsen backup and asked me to buy the first 2/3 of it again to read the end, so I dropped both. Half-enjoyed Cornell’s Knight & Squire, but seems to have been axed four issues into a six-issue miniseries.

(Wednesday Comics was in the last three years, just, maybe? Was it not a response to Kramer’s #7? There was a predictable mix of great, bearable and rubbish stuff in that, but it was huge fun as a publishing project regardless.)

(But my usual policy is just to buy whatever Morrison does for Marvel/DC and ignore anything else that’s not an auteur creator I like playing around with corp toys, so my answer is always going to be “ha ha not really”)

all cats are gay (sic), Friday, 10 June 2011 00:55 (thirteen years ago) link

I don't have any baggage tied to the X-men that went down after I quit comics the first time, but I think Fabian Nicieza's Cable & Deadpool is one of the more fun self-contained Marvel/DC super hero series I have read since returning. You don't need to know bupkus going in and even when it kind of references the Marvel U, it does so in a fun way. Why? Probably because it just did what it did and you didn't need to read the f-ing X-men or whatever to enjoy the comics, which is why so many of the big character comics just suck.

Outside the bonkers Morrison Batman run, the only consistently good DC comic I read was The Secret Six. The few issues I read of the Lex Luthor Action were pretty good, but I missed a couple issues and never went back. Some of the other Batman stuff was OK, but it is pretty spotty. That Batwoman story was really good, but heck that finished up a while back now.

I'm reading more Marvel by comparison now and some are OK some are infuriating and some just seem the same, but mostly as I get 'em cheaper via mail subscription. I guess they don't suck as much at 2 bucks or less an issue.

I do think they are running into walls what can be done with many of these characters. Half of the big story lines, even the good ones, from DC or Marvel are about some big character dying or being replaced or a new version. What is wild is that even some of the good recent super hero comics will have parts that are just borderline idiotic or something I really really hate, which kind of sours me on them a bit.

earlnash, Friday, 10 June 2011 03:25 (thirteen years ago) link

I'm reading more Marvel by comparison now and some are OK some are infuriating and some just seem the same, but mostly as I get 'em cheaper via mail subscription. I guess they don't suck as much at 2 bucks or less an issue.

I always wondered if that bit of fine print was really valid - it always seemed too good to be true. NEWS YOU CAN USE.

My Boyfriend Could Be A Spanish Man (R Baez), Friday, 10 June 2011 03:52 (thirteen years ago) link

Half-enjoyed Cornell’s Knight & Squire, but seems to have been axed four issues into a six-issue miniseries.

No, all of these came out. If anything it got better as it went on, and I forgot it from my list. I really enjoyed it, and the last couple of issues are as good as DC's put out recently, probably.

4, 5, 6, The monkey's got a hockey stick (aldo), Friday, 10 June 2011 06:07 (thirteen years ago) link

gah, shop must have dropped order too low to stock on shelves. Boooo!

all cats are gay (sic), Friday, 10 June 2011 06:15 (thirteen years ago) link

This has been an ongoing problem since Diamond stopped doing Sale Or Return, and maybe something that's affected the Big Two's conservatism about titles.

It's kind of become a vicious circle - shops won't take a chance on new books, if they do by the time they turn up on the shelves your customers are three months late for ordering the next issue, publishers see sales falling and shrink print runs or cancel titles, less books for shops to take a chance on, etc. Deadpool MAX is a good case in point - after the talk here is decided to get on board. Issue 1 had just hit the shelves, but issue 5 was the first one I didn't get on backorder. That can't be right/healthy.

It's also maybe the biggest factor in quality - compare it to internship. Why get a big name on your books when you can hire a breakthrough artist for 1/10 of the price in the hope he'll make his name and get to go off and do a creator-owned title somewhere else? A certain percentage of character fanboys will buy the book regardless and the rest of the public more or less can't.

4, 5, 6, The monkey's got a hockey stick (aldo), Friday, 10 June 2011 06:33 (thirteen years ago) link

This has been an ongoing problem since Diamond stopped doing Sale Or Return

er, before they started? the entire economic founding of the DM by Seuling is that sales were non-returnable

all cats are gay (sic), Friday, 10 June 2011 06:47 (thirteen years ago) link

I think the biggest problem in stores' cautiousness these days is the catastrophic shrinkings of the market that the Big Two's policies have stupidly led to. you can't blame them too much for being so careful when their entire clientele have been evaporating steadily for 17 years or so ;_;

all cats are gay (sic), Friday, 10 June 2011 06:52 (thirteen years ago) link

guys, Liefeld is drawing Hawk & Dove!

teeny, Friday, 10 June 2011 19:36 (thirteen years ago) link

:: has Fred Sanford style heart attack ::

Monsieur Naturel (WmC), Friday, 10 June 2011 19:48 (thirteen years ago) link

wtf DC

mh, Friday, 10 June 2011 19:59 (thirteen years ago) link

haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

why does he keep getting hired, no one actually likes his work

low-rent black gangster nicknamed Bootsy (DJP), Friday, 10 June 2011 20:05 (thirteen years ago) link

I think some people do, and they are not the kind of people we would know.

mh, Friday, 10 June 2011 20:56 (thirteen years ago) link

ok seriously though, this article w cornell about his Demon Knights title has me excited. I really enjoyed his run on Action Comics.
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=32699

sad that there is no secret six title though! And what will Birds of Prey be like w/o Oracle?

teeny, Friday, 10 June 2011 22:10 (thirteen years ago) link

guys, Liefeld is drawing Hawk & Dove!

the only point to this hiring would be if Karl Kesel were redrawing everything uncredited

all cats are gay (sic), Friday, 10 June 2011 23:46 (thirteen years ago) link

ok seriously though, this article w cornell about his Demon Knights title has me excited. I really enjoyed his run on Action Comics.

that sample art is fucking awful tho

all cats are gay (sic), Friday, 10 June 2011 23:50 (thirteen years ago) link

So, is DC doing anything to actually reach new audiences with this stuff? Sure, maybe the renumbering will make people less afraid to pick up the whateverhundredth issue of a book, but how are they gonna get these in front of more eyeballs?

Matt M., Saturday, 11 June 2011 01:01 (thirteen years ago) link

Scott Lobdell will tell his friends, who will tell their friends, who will tell their pets.

My Boyfriend Could Be A Spanish Man (R Baez), Saturday, 11 June 2011 01:10 (thirteen years ago) link

This...eccch. Okay, so I'll obvs be picking up the Morrison Superman (basically just trading off for Batman Inc, which is apparently ending?). I might keep getting the GL stuff since the creative teams are staying the same (unless they fuck with the continuity too hardcore, in which case I'm prolly out, as that will have eliminated my investment in/inertia induced by five years of post-reboot GL fun & games). And I'll definitely be picking up Milligan's Justice League Dark for its seven-issue race to cancellation. I'm mildly intrigued by the Vertigo Lite stuff, but that's due more to my lapsed Vertigo continuity fandom than any legit interest. So...while I accept that I might not be the target audience for DC's hard refresh, I still remain unconvinced that this is going to do much for them.

And to add to the chorus: Liefeld, DC? Really?

SNEEZED GOING DOWN STEPS, PAIN WHEN PUTTING SOCKS ON (Deric W. Haircare), Saturday, 11 June 2011 07:35 (thirteen years ago) link

Aside from the very few titles that aren't getting big creative team shakeups, DC is putting all of their chips on new readers and people who will pick up anything featuring a particular character regardless of who's working on the book. And while I may be underestimating the size and/or buying power of the latter group, this seems like a hell of a gamble, and one that runs the risk of producing quite an impressive explosion in DC's collective faces. If they'd pulled a real coup and drawn some impressive and surprising fan-favorite talent into this project, that might've given the endeavor a fighting chance, but, as far as most of this stuff is concerned, I don't see the incentive for non-completists who doesn't absolutely have to piss all of their money away on picking up every #1 issue ever.

Plus: Liefeld.

SNEEZED GOING DOWN STEPS, PAIN WHEN PUTTING SOCKS ON (Deric W. Haircare), Saturday, 11 June 2011 07:46 (thirteen years ago) link

Jeff Lemire on Frankenstein & co has possibilities. I like his creator-owned stuff, but haven't read his Superboy because that character doesn't do anything for me. Should probably check out his Flashpoint Frankenstein as a tester.

EZ Snappin, Saturday, 11 June 2011 09:21 (thirteen years ago) link

basically just trading off for Batman Inc, which is apparently ending?

It'll be coming back next year, as a 12-issue limited series, I believe. And with Chris Burnham!

My Boyfriend Could Be A Spanish Man (R Baez), Saturday, 11 June 2011 15:41 (thirteen years ago) link

In and out of comics and I'm not familiar with a bunch of the people doing the new titles, but:

I think Morrison is just doing the first issue of Action, isn't he? Thought I read that somewhere. You'd have to think that having your editor call you up and say 'reboot time! That multi-year arc you were working on, we're tossing it'; to which you reply 'ah ha but I am your best-selling author my friend', would be fun.
The emphasis on black characters is laudable: Mr Terrific, Static Shock, Batwing. That's pretty cool that they're doing that.
Getting Micronauts flashbacks looking at Legion Lost. Yes, I am old. And I wish I still had my diecast Baron Karza doll.
Understand now why they delayed Batwoman #1 for so long ....
It's funny seeing them try things they know don't work like anthology titles.
Is it me or does all this stuff look very ... '90s angsty overworked Image? I miss the artwork on covers the past few years, a lot of them were real class.
If you're going to do a reboot, go crazy with the teams, like the newspaper anthology Wednesday Comics. That was great even if you couldn't do anything that complex story-wise given the page count. Everybody was completely different than everybody else and it was a blast.

The reboot and going digital is smart, I think, they've largely conceded the movie revenue stream to Marvel for the next few years.

Brakhage, Saturday, 11 June 2011 17:25 (thirteen years ago) link

I mean, demographically the comics industry has no new readers as far as I can tell - the bulk of it is white guys in their thirties and forties, like me. Everyone younger has been peeled off by video games and movies. So the reboot and going digital is your only strategy if you want to survive and not be reduced to producing four different lenticular covers for 'collectors'.

Brakhage, Saturday, 11 June 2011 17:34 (thirteen years ago) link

DC's digital comics will cost as much as their print comics, unless you wait two weeks then they'll only cost two dollars.

That screams "We have a digital strategy that we don't want to succeed."

Matt M., Saturday, 11 June 2011 23:49 (thirteen years ago) link

Wait...what? Is DC second guessing any of the ideas they have and decide to implement in the midst of drunken benders? Why on earth would anyone pay as much for a digital download as they would for a physical copy of something? And how on earth can DC possibly justify that? Unless their whole 'Drawing the line at $2.99!" moral stance finally became very quickly untenable and bit them on the ass.

SNEEZED GOING DOWN STEPS, PAIN WHEN PUTTING SOCKS ON (Deric W. Haircare), Sunday, 12 June 2011 03:03 (thirteen years ago) link

And better yet, there are comics folks who wonder why I say that plan is lunacy.

LOOOOOOOONACCCYYYYYYYYYYY!

Matt M., Monday, 13 June 2011 04:35 (thirteen years ago) link

DC's dollar share has shrunk after that 2.99 thing, by the by. They're still getting pummeled in unit shares, but I don't know if that's a discrepancy in numbers of titles too or not.

Matt M., Monday, 13 June 2011 04:37 (thirteen years ago) link

bottom line - still feels constantly like those floppies cost too much for the amount of comic you're getting. Digital comics should be $0.99 and even less if you buy them in bulk. But I admit I'm the kinda crank who still loves the memory of floppies but hasn't bought 'em since last century

if the comics were extremely cheap, maybe some surprise hits could break out of the 52 #1s but eh who is really going to buy all of them?

Nhex, Monday, 13 June 2011 04:47 (thirteen years ago) link

That's exactly what retailers are asking. And the perceived value of a single issue has gone right through the cellar as the price has gone up and writing extended storylines has taken over. I'd add that the reliance on hundred-part crossovers does the same thing.

Comics haven't been priced as disposable junk for some time.

Matt M., Monday, 13 June 2011 05:20 (thirteen years ago) link

I am kind of a dick and treat them that way, though.

I think I have coffee stains on a handful of floppies

mh, Monday, 13 June 2011 16:29 (thirteen years ago) link

I can count very few comics here (or maybe even none) that won't have a creator change or cancellation within 12 issues.

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/06/07/an-updateable-list-of-the-52-dc-titles-for-september/

Chuck_Tatum, Monday, 13 June 2011 20:18 (thirteen years ago) link

Looking forward to Cancelled Comics Cavalcade #3.

Huey "Keytar" Smith (WmC), Monday, 13 June 2011 20:24 (thirteen years ago) link

Jock's not on art for any Batman stuff now? Damn.

mh, Monday, 13 June 2011 20:33 (thirteen years ago) link

oh fuck, Cornell is writing Stormwatch?????

MARTIAN MANHUNTER??????

... this kind of has disaster written all over it

low-rent black gangster nicknamed Bootsy (DJP), Monday, 13 June 2011 20:46 (thirteen years ago) link

I mean, there is a 5% chance this will be fucking amazing, but if Cornell runs off on his pet themes without really connecting with the Wildstorm characters as they have been previously written, this is going to be terrible.

low-rent black gangster nicknamed Bootsy (DJP), Monday, 13 June 2011 20:48 (thirteen years ago) link

I know I'm not a typical comics fan in that I just like a few writers/artists and pick up their work to the exclusion of most other stuff, but I really have no idea who they're targeting with this

mh, Monday, 13 June 2011 20:51 (thirteen years ago) link

So I think I figured out what bothers me the most about this. Say what you will about Marvel (and even as a fan, I could say plenty), but it's clear that they have some semblance of a plan for at least the near future (and in some cases, a long way down the pike), in terms of both marketing initiatives and story. Whereas DC seems to be making shit up pretty much on the fly, and ineptly. Basically the only reason I read mainstream comics is that I enjoy long-form serialized fiction. The better mainstream comics allow readers to dip into a long story at a steady clip for a longer stretch of time than serialized television programs usually get, and that can be really satisfying when it's done well (or even satisfyingly frustrating, as it's kinda fun to bitch when things are mishandled). But the gist is that there's a level of investment that makes me care and continue to check stuff out even during relatively underwhelming creative spells. DC, who have done a lot of bet hedging in their recent past, doesn't seem to get that. Which is bizarre, given their obsession with Legacy and Tradition and the fact that their books are often more mired in hyper-obscure continuity minutia than Marvel's. But they seem generally unconcerned with creating a through-line, a sense of something bigger storywise that anyone should have any reason to care about in more than the short term. Even on a purely cynical perspective wherein things like narrative integrity come a distant second to making a buck, it doesn't make any sense as a long-term business strategy. This stunt isn't going to be bringing in new readers (i.e. readers who aren't already caught in the mainstream comics web) to any appreciable degree (and to the extent that this move is in any way related to the upcoming Green Lantern movie, hasn't it been pretty much proven that comics movies have next to no effect on comic sales?). So this seems like little more than a quick & easy way to attract readers who are drawn to gimmicks at the expense of established readers who are currently at all invested. And I'm sure their sales for the first few months of this initiative will skyrocket above current sales figures, but I'll be utterly shocked if they don't plummet far below current sales figures soon thereafter. I just can't make heads or tails of the decision making process here at all. At any rate, I'm glad that I'd already mostly backed away from their books prior to all of this.

SNEEZED GOING DOWN STEPS, PAIN WHEN PUTTING SOCKS ON (Deric W. Haircare), Monday, 13 June 2011 21:06 (thirteen years ago) link

I normally would be all over a Stormwatch book but, having read Cornell's Doctor Who books and knowing what he likes to focus on in his storytelling, if I leaf through Stormwatch #1 and it's all about Midnighter and Apollo rediscovering their love for each other and arguing about whether rejoining Stormwatch would pull them apart, I will slap everyone involved.

low-rent black gangster nicknamed Bootsy (DJP), Monday, 13 June 2011 21:09 (thirteen years ago) link

FYI, it looks like Vertigo made it through without much change. Just that "Vertigo superheroes" AKA the trenchcoat brigade, seem to have been assimilated by the DCU again.

Nothing seems like it's very well-planned out, though. And I don't see much reaching past the already-established readership for comics. Guys, you have them already, go a little further.

Matt M., Monday, 13 June 2011 21:54 (thirteen years ago) link

Some of these are definitely interesting as short term projects, but as a whole it doesn't seem worth blowing everything up to start over.

Huey "Keytar" Smith (WmC), Monday, 13 June 2011 23:09 (thirteen years ago) link

I normally would be all over a Stormwatch book but, having read Cornell's Doctor Who books and knowing what he likes to focus on in his storytelling, if I leaf through Stormwatch #1 and it's all about Midnighter and Apollo rediscovering their love for each other and arguing about whether rejoining Stormwatch would pull them apart, I will slap everyone involved.

Has this been a theme in any of his comics to date?

all cats are gay (sic), Tuesday, 14 June 2011 00:08 (thirteen years ago) link

Sappy relationship stuff has been a theme in every piece of Doctor Who fiction I've ever read by him.

low-rent black gangster nicknamed Bootsy (DJP), Tuesday, 14 June 2011 03:56 (thirteen years ago) link

he did that Human Nature/Family of Blood two-parter right?

Nhex, Tuesday, 14 June 2011 03:59 (thirteen years ago) link

Sappy relationship stuff has been a theme in every piece of Doctor Who fiction I've ever read by him.

OK sure, but why not base expectations for his next superhero comics work on the several dozen superhero comics he has written in the last three years, rather than on some non-superhero TV tie-in novels he wrote two decades ago?

all cats are gay (sic), Tuesday, 14 June 2011 04:08 (thirteen years ago) link

xpost: yeah, that was an adaptation of his Who novel Human Nature, which was approx 800x better than the telly version

(I have not read any of his other Who books)

all cats are gay (sic), Tuesday, 14 June 2011 04:10 (thirteen years ago) link

Can someone who's been reading current DC comics tell me what's the in-universe explanation for this reboot? And why didn't they do it after Final Crisis, which would've provided a perfect explanation for a reboot? The world is destroyed by Darkseid, and Superman wishes it back the way it was with the Miracle Machine, but maybe for some reason (Superman's unconscious wishes? his memory isn't perfect?) the new world created by the Machine isn't quite the same. That would've given the writers a way to reboot any series in any way they wanted, plus a backdoor to change things back if the reboot wasn't successful.

Also, is this supposed to be "soft" reboot (the characters don't change, just the situations they're in), or a Crisis style full reboot (characters and their histories change)?

Tuomas, Tuesday, 14 June 2011 07:15 (thirteen years ago) link

Can someone who's been reading current DC comics tell me what's the in-universe explanation for this reboot?

There isn't one yet, as it hasn't happened. And if the point is to attract new digital readers, they shouldn't bother with one.

nd why didn't they do it after Final Crisis, which would've provided a perfect explanation for a reboot?

That was DiDio's plan, Levitz nixed it.

Also, is this supposed to be "soft" reboot

A mishmash, it seems.

all cats are gay (sic), Tuesday, 14 June 2011 07:41 (thirteen years ago) link

OK sure, but why not base expectations for his next superhero comics work on the several dozen superhero comics he has written in the last three years, rather than on some non-superhero TV tie-in novels he wrote two decades ago?

Because I've never read any of his comics?

"Father's Day" from the Eccles season was also him IIRC

low-rent black gangster nicknamed Bootsy (DJP), Tuesday, 14 June 2011 11:34 (thirteen years ago) link

yes but it would probably be chiller for your nerd pressure to go "hey anyone, what are his comics like?" rather than "RRRARRRGH I AM GOING TO GET PREMATURELY FURIOUS ABOUT A COMIC I WILL PROBABLY NEVER REMEMBER TO ACTUALLY READ IN CASE IT IS SIMILAR TO SOME NON-COMICS I READ IN THE 90S RAAAAAAARGH" was what I was trying to gently nudge you towards

yeah, Father's Day was him, and horrible in exactly the way you describe. and a couple of others.

all cats are gay (sic), Tuesday, 14 June 2011 13:45 (thirteen years ago) link

dude you can't reason with nerdrage, come on

low-rent black gangster nicknamed Bootsy (DJP), Tuesday, 14 June 2011 13:53 (thirteen years ago) link

Interesting that Paul Levitz punted on this plan after FINAL CRISIS. That makes a lot of sense in retrospect.

Matt M., Tuesday, 14 June 2011 18:17 (thirteen years ago) link

I would guess that Levitz probably isn't the biggest fan of DC's reboot fetish, assuming he has any investment in his past LOSH work.

SNEEZED GOING DOWN STEPS, PAIN WHEN PUTTING SOCKS ON (Deric W. Haircare), Tuesday, 14 June 2011 18:27 (thirteen years ago) link

I'd suspect that the content is part of it, but Mr. Levitz was a big proponent of the DM and this plan in today's DM might best be described as "reckless."

Matt M., Tuesday, 14 June 2011 20:50 (thirteen years ago) link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slvkYn5xC84

EZ Snappin, Wednesday, 15 June 2011 16:11 (thirteen years ago) link

The one definite "Yeah!" to pull out of this mess is that Morrison is, at long last, getting a shot at writing the in-continuity Superman book that he's been wanting to do for years.

SNEEZED GOING DOWN STEPS, PAIN WHEN PUTTING SOCKS ON (Deric W. Haircare), Wednesday, 15 June 2011 16:17 (thirteen years ago) link

Except that it's going to be a new continuity, rly

underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have pwned (sic), Thursday, 16 June 2011 00:10 (thirteen years ago) link

are they going to get Alan Moore in again to write the last old-continuity Superman story?

The New Dirty Vicar, Thursday, 16 June 2011 09:57 (thirteen years ago) link

^^^lol

lots of janitors have something to say (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 16 June 2011 21:38 (thirteen years ago) link

how many times has Action Comics been restarted. four...?

lots of janitors have something to say (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 16 June 2011 21:39 (thirteen years ago) link

Er, zero? That's why it's such a big nerd deal to be throwing away 900-something sequential issues worth of numbering.

underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have pwned (sic), Friday, 17 June 2011 00:07 (thirteen years ago) link

it's been stop and started a lot.

Don't start the chain you know? (forksclovetofu), Friday, 17 June 2011 02:26 (thirteen years ago) link

not rly? paused for the bimonthly Man Of Steel in 1986, and then all four Superman titles paused for one solicitation cycle after Death Of Superman - these are obviously storytelling complements (a necessity in the latter case), not cancellations and reboots.

underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have pwned (sic), Friday, 17 June 2011 03:02 (thirteen years ago) link

I bet you a shiny silver dollar (or half a euro, whatever) that there will be an ACTION COMICS ONE THOUSAND.

And I bet you that same dollar that I'd rather read DC COMICS ONE MILLION instead.

Matt M., Friday, 17 June 2011 03:22 (thirteen years ago) link

sic, yeah I'm agreeing with you, hence "stop and start"

Don't start the chain you know? (forksclovetofu), Friday, 17 June 2011 04:05 (thirteen years ago) link

twice in over 7 decades, 26 and 19 years ago, still not "a lot"

HUGS THOUGH

http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ll644u7Gmn1qcp3boo1_500.png

underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have pwned (sic), Friday, 17 June 2011 05:54 (thirteen years ago) link

"UGH. GTFO."

SNEEZED GOING DOWN STEPS, PAIN WHEN PUTTING SOCKS ON (Deric W. Haircare), Friday, 17 June 2011 06:14 (thirteen years ago) link

Apparently it's all being retconned so that Superman, who was the first superhero, first appeared only 5 years ago. As someone elsewhere points out, how this gives Batman time to have gone through Dick Grayson, Jason Todd, Tim Drake AND Damian as Robins, and to have fathered Damian, all in less than 5 years, is a bit of a mystery

Not to mention the number of women he's gone through. He's gone from a reclusive bachelor to a busy socialite!

mh, Saturday, 18 June 2011 00:00 (thirteen years ago) link

Someone needs to start a #firstrebootproblems hashtag.

Matt M., Saturday, 18 June 2011 05:28 (thirteen years ago) link

Are they keeping all the Robins? If I were rebooting the universe, keeping a long line of Robins would not be on my to-do list.

Bill, Saturday, 18 June 2011 14:33 (thirteen years ago) link

Keeping Damian as Robin, Dick as Nightwang and Jason as Red Hood, as far as I can tell.

Mr. Patrick Batman (WmC), Saturday, 18 June 2011 14:40 (thirteen years ago) link

Oh, and Tim Drake as Red Robin (in Teen Titans).

Mr. Patrick Batman (WmC), Saturday, 18 June 2011 14:54 (thirteen years ago) link

Rundown of the whole blessed mess here: http://www.comicsalliance.com/2011/06/13/dc-comics-september-2011/

Mr. Patrick Batman (WmC), Saturday, 18 June 2011 14:55 (thirteen years ago) link

Seems to be quite Zero Hour-y. "We're changing everything! Except some things! Most things will be the same. Except the things we don't like. And even some of those will stay the same."
As Matt's pointed out elsewhere, this seems to have A LOT to do with the Superman legal case.
If I was still buying a dozen or so DC titles every month, I might consider this more of a jumping off point than a jumping on point. You hang on to so many comics thinking they're going to pull out of their slump any month now, but this is a chance to say, "Well, that's not the Green Arrow I was a fan of anyhow."

As for the price point, it's ridiculous to charge the same amount for print as digital. One issue of a comic costs as much as three pop singles? Come on. On the surface, a closer comparison would be to the price of a single episode of a TV show (I think those are usually $3.99 on iTunes?), but really, the way comic stories are told now, one six-issue arc is closer to a full hour-long episode of a TV show. On a good day.

I would have liked to see some bolder digital initiatives. Presumably the cost of producing a digital comic is less than that of producing a print comic (I don't know, maybe the infrastructure of print is so streamlined and entrenched that the costs are negligible compared to whatever IT and licensing costs are associated with making a comic available digitally, I doubt it, but I don't know), so why don't they launch a few digital-only titles of traditionally low-selling characters? Firestorm, Zatanna, Green Arrow. Put something out digitally for the few saps who need their fishnet or goatee fix every month, and then anthologize it into those DC Presents collections quarterly if you think there's enough interest. Then you focus on making your print comics fucking amazing. Put great talent on no more than a dozen regular print comics. Make each print issue a big fucking deal (like with the All Star line or even the early run of Loeb's Superman/Batman), a testament to the medium of comics that no electronic format can touch. Monthly, bi-monthly, quarterly, as long as they're high-quality, fully-realized comics with no replacement artists or editorial edicts fucking up plot points midway through the story, they will sell in around the 100,000 mark. You could even charge double for them. I would have gladly paid $6/issue for All Star Superman. Give me premium content and I'll pay a premium price.
Then leave the shared universe fan service hijinks to the digital realm, re-establish serial comic storytelling as the premiere form junk culture: cheap, prurient & easily available. Put your fast but unaccomplished artists on these books so that they hit regularly, so that people get the chance to get caught up in & hooked on the storylines and crank them out at $.99 an issue. All your continuity housekeeping, your IP maintenance, your decapitations, go for it.

Or not, whatever.

make the Pagan Dad a Pagan Father. (Dr. Superman), Saturday, 18 June 2011 17:24 (thirteen years ago) link

Most baffling of all: "Let's reboot Justice League International! With Dan Jurgens!"

Chuck_Tatum, Saturday, 18 June 2011 18:08 (thirteen years ago) link

Also LOL Ted Kord being retconned out of existence.

Chuck_Tatum, Saturday, 18 June 2011 18:12 (thirteen years ago) link

Boy, there's just way too much Geoff Johns on that list. I'm struggling to find a title that sounds like I'd dig it. Well, I'll probably check out Batgirl and Batwing. Red Lantern Corps and JL Dark, because of Milligan. Swamp Thing, because I'll feel obligated.

Okay, the return of Resurrection Man, with his creators on the book, that's genuinely cool. If only they'd brought back Tom Peyer's Hourman too.

Bill, Saturday, 18 June 2011 18:15 (thirteen years ago) link

I'm waiting for the HAYWIRE reboot with Kyle Baker on the art. Maybe the rewriting, too.

And why the hell isn't there a SLASH MARAUD ongoing? Supersexy and warped 80s sci-fi? This is a no-brainer, people.

Matt M., Saturday, 18 June 2011 19:15 (thirteen years ago) link

I'm going to get the Jurgens JLI! I like Booster Gold, and I'm excited to see an ongoing featuring Vixen. The JL: Generation Lost series that just wrapped up was pretty enjoyable. Right now I can see getting between 7-10 of these titles, but I'm not sure how many DC titles I'm currently getting. Almost certainly more though. :( I do hope this moves us closer to figuring out digital distribution.

teeny, Sunday, 19 June 2011 12:01 (thirteen years ago) link

This is more likely to kill digital distribution. Unless their genius plan is to leave the market open for Marvel to undercut them with sensible 99c comics and reinvigorate the marketplace while letting DC look like good guys to b&m retailers.

underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have pwned (sic), Sunday, 19 June 2011 13:11 (thirteen years ago) link

If Paul Levitz was still in charge of DC, I might think that their plan. But he isn't and their digital plan just doesn't seem well-thought-through given market realities.

Matt M., Sunday, 19 June 2011 23:31 (thirteen years ago) link

Levitz wouldn't have let them do a line-wide reboot without actually planning how everything was going to reboot, or give the entire freelance allocation two months to get three issues in the bank.

underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have pwned (sic), Sunday, 19 June 2011 23:58 (thirteen years ago) link

jeez, this doesn't even look worth torrenting

Don't start the chain you know? (forksclovetofu), Monday, 20 June 2011 04:46 (thirteen years ago) link

Apparently Batman is not rebooting, just carrying on where it left off.

Chuck_Tatum, Monday, 20 June 2011 11:21 (thirteen years ago) link

if Superman's only been around for five years, that means Batman's been losing Robins at a rate of one a year, and Damian's about three.

underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have pwned (sic), Monday, 20 June 2011 12:41 (thirteen years ago) link

Keeping Damian as Robin, Dick as Nightwang and Jason as Red Hood, as far as I can tell.

wait, Jason Todd is alive??? Wow, I am behind the curve.

The New Dirty Vicar, Monday, 20 June 2011 12:58 (thirteen years ago) link

Yeah he's been annoying the Batman family to varying degrees for a while. I think it was one of those fake-out "is this guy Jason or isn't he?!? oh he isn't but I'm a different writer and I think he's back anyway" things. Morrison made him an entertaining Batman rival during his B&R run

mh, Monday, 20 June 2011 13:43 (thirteen years ago) link

I knew he was alive and stuff, but I so don't 'get' who he is that I can't even think of him in B&R

underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have pwned (sic), Monday, 20 June 2011 14:00 (thirteen years ago) link

the red hood

mh, Monday, 20 June 2011 14:25 (thirteen years ago) link

yeah but... oh was he Professor Pyg's boss?

there's the suiciding Penguin in the Tan arc, the Pearly King (<3) in the Stewart one, the amazing painted Joker in the Irving issues and then it's all ROBW tie-in... wait apparently I can't remember anything from the Andy Clarke issues except for the Joker's skull changing shape when Oberon Sexton took off his mask

underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have pwned (sic), Monday, 20 June 2011 14:29 (thirteen years ago) link

No, he was the vigilante who was cool with killing and was trying to be a rival to Dick's Batman. He recruited Scarlett, the girl who had one of Pyg's masks on, as a sidekick. The Penguin was fleeing from them!

mh, Monday, 20 June 2011 14:42 (thirteen years ago) link

On a Batman topic: I really hope that future writers leave the Simon Hurt/Thomas Wayne character dead and buried. The plot arc and ending are too hilarious to me -- Bruce was amazingly frustrated that Hurt kept popping up because he never saw a body, and the guy ended up majorly fucking with his life, but at the end of the ROBW arc, the Joker ends up burying him as the punchline to long joke and Bruce and Dick are all like "well, the Joker said that he's gone for good, and we oddly enough feel we can trust him on that one."

mh, Monday, 20 June 2011 14:47 (thirteen years ago) link

ah yeah right - well, if it was in Tan, no wonder, I probably couldn't tell what was going on in the first place.

if Superman's only been around for five years, that means Batman's been losing Robins at a rate of one a year, and Damian's about three.

ooh! ooh! I've got a great idea how they can get around this in six months when the characters cross paths: Pocket Universe!

underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have pwned (sic), Monday, 20 June 2011 15:06 (thirteen years ago) link

I have an idea - when the two inevitably cross in a new World's Finest, we find out that all the various Robin's have been hallucinations that occurred in the iso-tank thing and none of them exist.

EZ Snappin, Monday, 20 June 2011 15:40 (thirteen years ago) link

When you start adding this together, it sounds even more convoluted. They just should start from scratch.

earlnash, Tuesday, 21 June 2011 02:55 (thirteen years ago) link

My understanding is that the Morrison Action series will take place at a different time than the other series, and then all the other series will eventually fall so far behind schedule that Action will catch up with the rest of the DCU organically. Didio has a flowchart.

make the Pagan Dad a Pagan Father. (Dr. Superman), Tuesday, 21 June 2011 21:49 (thirteen years ago) link

irl lol

underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have pwned (sic), Wednesday, 22 June 2011 00:48 (thirteen years ago) link

you know, I think comics fans should rise up against all this bringing back characters from the dead shite. Next time it happens, there must be a boycott of the title affected.

The New Dirty Vicar, Friday, 24 June 2011 15:26 (thirteen years ago) link

My LCS have offered me sale or return, so I am biting the bullet and taking around 20 titles. I suspect this is a big mistake.

4, 5, 6, The monkey's got a hockey stick (aldo), Monday, 27 June 2011 14:04 (thirteen years ago) link

you know the creative teams, you have only yourself to blame

undeɹrated ærosm?th b∞tlegs I have pwned (sic), Monday, 27 June 2011 14:19 (thirteen years ago) link

I can't wait for the reports. Thanks for being the guinea pig Aldo!

EZ Snappin, Monday, 27 June 2011 14:20 (thirteen years ago) link

READING COMICS SO YOU DON'T HAVE TO.

That list of shame:

Action (it's G-Moz, how bad can it be?)
Detective (Tony Daniel is at least a competent writer)
Batgirl (Gail S can write female bat stories on previous evidence)
Batwoman (c'mon, it looks lovely)
Aquaman (because the last attempt was actually pretty good)
Flash (dunno, if this falls out of Flashpoint then maybe it's worth it)
Firestorm (he's my guilty favourite, mainly because of the John Ostrander run)
Hawkman (ehh, dunno)
DCU Presents (like Boston Brand, but don't expect this to stay on th epull list)
Stormwatch (to prove Dan wrong)
Suicide Squad (again, lol 80s nostalgia)
All-Star Western (because Jonah Hex is still probably the best DCU book being published at the moment)
Hawk & Dove (channelling Karl Kesel, hopefully)
LoSH (just because)
Legion Lost (see above)
All the 'Dark' line (because a couple of them have to be readable)

Should I add Azarrello's Wonder Woman y/n?

4, 5, 6, The monkey's got a hockey stick (aldo), Monday, 27 June 2011 14:33 (thirteen years ago) link

Is that Batwoman the one that was supposed to launch a long time ago, but ended up going back for rewrites or who knows what?

I kind of assumed it was due to the fact that Rucka/J.H. Williams were an amazing team but Williams wasn't scripting up to the same standard on his lonesome, but I haven't read anything he's written, so who knows?

mh, Monday, 27 June 2011 14:38 (thirteen years ago) link

I want to be wrong about Stormwatch! I am irrationally attached to that series.

chupacabra - a delicious burrito (DJP), Monday, 27 June 2011 14:40 (thirteen years ago) link

Yeah, that's the one. The stuff that was appearing (in Detective?) gives me confidence, I think. Batwoman xp

4, 5, 6, The monkey's got a hockey stick (aldo), Monday, 27 June 2011 14:40 (thirteen years ago) link

it never went back for rewrites - DC announced it months and months before it was meant to be ready, then had to go "er it's not ready," then re-planned it, then yanked it again a couple of months ago when they decided to do this reboot

they were taking ages on it bcz it is v art-intensive and JHW3 wanted to have more than six months in the tank before launching so as to not slip behind. the two art teams are working on rotating story arcs simultaneously to increase this time management approach.

I kind of assumed it was due to the fact that Rucka/J.H. Williams were an amazing team but Williams wasn't scripting up to the same standard on his lonesome, but I haven't read anything he's written, so who knows?

he's not writing it on his lonesome, he's co-writing it as he did with Chase and Snow (and had a significant hand in Batdetectivewoman and Promethea, by all accounts). And Chase was the tits, so.

undeɹrated ærosm?th b∞tlegs I have pwned (sic), Monday, 27 June 2011 14:54 (thirteen years ago) link

Is Sweet Tooth (by the guy who'll be writing "The Dark"'s Animal Man) any good? It shows up in my Amazon recommendations a lot. I feel very iffy about anyone but Morrison writing Animal Man, largely because of ... all those fucking issues I read where it was written by anyone but Morrison.

Bill, Monday, 27 June 2011 14:58 (thirteen years ago) link

Sweet Tooth is pretty good - I'm going into it hoping it'll work like the two Bizarro Comics hardbacks.

4, 5, 6, The monkey's got a hockey stick (aldo), Monday, 27 June 2011 15:00 (thirteen years ago) link

Thanks for the clarification! I kind of stumbled into the previous Batwoman stuff and Williams's art is amazing stuff.

mh, Monday, 27 June 2011 15:08 (thirteen years ago) link

I like Sweet Tooth, but his Essex County trilogy is he place to start with Lemire.

EZ Snappin, Monday, 27 June 2011 15:55 (thirteen years ago) link

what's the high concept of this relaunch? a guy i know who OCDishly downloads/reads everything DC put out tried to explain it to me the other day but i think my brain just refused to take in the data

thomp, Monday, 27 June 2011 16:03 (thirteen years ago) link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flashpoint_%28comics%29

Basically, the Reverse-Flash removes the DCU and Barry Allen and Booster Gold re-make it.

4, 5, 6, The monkey's got a hockey stick (aldo), Monday, 27 June 2011 16:11 (thirteen years ago) link

so no plans whatsoever to do a full roster digital subscription at a reasonable price, huh?

Don't start the chain you know? (forksclovetofu), Monday, 27 June 2011 16:12 (thirteen years ago) link

They should do $52 for all the first issues, $104 for all the seconds and all weeks thereafter.

EZ Snappin, Monday, 27 June 2011 16:29 (thirteen years ago) link

a story centering on the reverse-flash and booster gold. right

thomp, Monday, 27 June 2011 16:36 (thirteen years ago) link

It's Geoff Johns, where Flash & Green Lantern and ultra-violence are the triumvirate that the DC Universe revolves around.

EZ Snappin, Monday, 27 June 2011 16:37 (thirteen years ago) link

I might, foolishly, sign up for an all you can read subscription and just pick and choose titles, but really, who am I kidding? I don't think I'll really follow more than a handful of these titles.

Matt M., Monday, 27 June 2011 17:04 (thirteen years ago) link

scripting up to the same standard
it is to laugh, this is DC we're talking about

make the Pagan Dad a Pagan Father. (Dr. Superman), Monday, 27 June 2011 17:32 (thirteen years ago) link

Setting Grant Morrison's "Action" series in the past seems like an excellent ruse for future-proofing him from making massive continuity/status quo changes.

Chuck_Tatum, Friday, 8 July 2011 08:07 (thirteen years ago) link

OK, having been offered a deal I couldn't turn down (although I probably should have done) I am taking everything for 3 months. I am sure this is a mistake, but I will do it just for you because I love you all.

4, 5, 6, The monkey's got a hockey stick (aldo), Saturday, 16 July 2011 14:05 (thirteen years ago) link

Thanks for doing what I wouldn't! Way to take one for the team aldo.

EZ Snappin, Saturday, 16 July 2011 14:57 (thirteen years ago) link

Nice work Aldo! Be careful out there.

Chuck_Tatum, Sunday, 17 July 2011 10:07 (thirteen years ago) link

"maybe you should find someone to celebrate with as well" OH FUCK OFF
http://dcu.blog.dccomics.com/files/2011/07/SM_1_prev2.jpg

like working at a jewelry store and not knowing about bracelets (Dr. Superman), Thursday, 21 July 2011 22:01 (thirteen years ago) link

what should that pic be? can't see it

not bulimic, just a cat (James Morrison), Thursday, 21 July 2011 22:55 (thirteen years ago) link

thank your eyes for censoring it from you

that might be a new low of competence in superhero comic book colouring, there are about 19 different light sources in each panel

Booger T. Jones (sic), Thursday, 21 July 2011 23:53 (thirteen years ago) link

I'm pretty okay with the new JLI being a straight up Fantastic Four rip:
http://dcu.blog.dccomics.com/files/2011/07/JUSTICELEAGUEINTERNATIONAL_1_19_450_GHKSJHAFkjsad7f.jpg

I think the superhearing balloons are light sources for other panels on the Supes page.

i think DC has taken a poison pill

generous doler out of lollies (forksclovetofu), Friday, 22 July 2011 17:43 (thirteen years ago) link

At the SDCC Superman Panel right now JMS says "After a fight with Parasite, Superman temporarily loses his powers, and then at the end of that finds out that he missed his chance to have sex."

o_0

gro_0ss

Booger T. Jones (sic), Saturday, 23 July 2011 00:36 (thirteen years ago) link

The only JMS thing I've ever read was the brutal Superman Year One, but it seems to me (from the above quote) that he fundamentally misunderstands the primary metaphor of superpeople (boners).

like working at a jewelry store and not knowing about bracelets (Dr. Superman), Saturday, 23 July 2011 23:52 (thirteen years ago) link

Somebody needs to lend that guy a Frank Miller comic:
http://www.wonderwomanmuseum.com/ImagesComic/DKSA116.jpg
Frank Miller understands boners.

like working at a jewelry store and not knowing about bracelets (Dr. Superman), Saturday, 23 July 2011 23:55 (thirteen years ago) link

The SDCC protest against the DC relaunch mostly populated by people dressed up as characters from a TV show they stopped making over a decade ago.
http://www.comicsalliance.com/2011/07/23/fan-protest-dc-comics-comic-con/

Laughing at the idea of Frank Miller drawing that with a raging erection

mh, Sunday, 24 July 2011 01:10 (thirteen years ago) link

Okay, B+ for this though (although, NB, it might be an old joke I've never heard):

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.comicsalliance.com/media/2011/07/img0283.jpg

Chuck_Tatum, Sunday, 24 July 2011 10:43 (thirteen years ago) link

I just read a news story about the reboot, and apparently this will be Superman's new costume:

http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/actioncomics1-620x935.jpg

Seriously?! Okay, I guess the combination of jeans and Supes t-shirt might possibly work, but what's up with the teeny tiny cape? Though if they really want Superman to wear jeans and a t-shirt, a cape of any length will look ridiculous with that.

Tuomas, Tuesday, 26 July 2011 11:15 (thirteen years ago) link

Also, apparently the reboot will erase the Clark/Lois marriage, and now Clark has a crush on her while she's oblivious to it and keeps dating other men... Some fans are really angry at this, but I've no strong opinion either way, although it seems to me like Lois was more interesting when she was written as an independent and not just Mrs. Superman.

Tuomas, Tuesday, 26 July 2011 11:20 (thirteen years ago) link

"as an independent character"

Tuomas, Tuesday, 26 July 2011 11:20 (thirteen years ago) link

That's the "young Superman" that Morrison's writing - the rest of the reboot DCU is set five years later. The cape is apparently the entirety of the blanket he was put in the rocket with, and has been specifically compared to Linus' security blanket.

naked hdsl (sic), Tuesday, 26 July 2011 11:44 (thirteen years ago) link

Also, he can leap tall buildings in single bound but he can't fly.

Number None, Tuesday, 26 July 2011 13:05 (thirteen years ago) link

Superman wears sensible shoes!

No Broehner (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 26 July 2011 18:10 (thirteen years ago) link

And he has reinforced knee pads. Stylish.

EZ Snappin, Wednesday, 27 July 2011 01:26 (thirteen years ago) link

so is it true barbara gordon can walk now? score one for ableism

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_i_qxQztHRI (Princess TamTam), Thursday, 28 July 2011 22:46 (thirteen years ago) link

Well, to be fair, I think all of the images we've seen of the new Barbara Gordon show her swinging on a Bat-Rope, so, y'know, maybe, um...

Just realized that the two lines that aren't being wholly rebooted are Batman and Green Lantern, which are also the only two lines that have been selling half-decent numbers. Seems like a pretty chickenshit way to do it.

yeesh, is this really the new superman costume?

http://i.imgur.com/sToWd.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_i_qxQztHRI (Princess TamTam), Wednesday, 3 August 2011 21:03 (thirteen years ago) link

That appears to be a blue and red batman costume!

mh, Wednesday, 3 August 2011 21:28 (thirteen years ago) link

cancel dc

Ward Fowler, Wednesday, 3 August 2011 21:35 (thirteen years ago) link

Piping is to the 2010s as pockets were to the 1990s.

Matt M., Wednesday, 3 August 2011 21:56 (thirteen years ago) link

If you can't draw feet, stay the fuck away from Superman #1.

like working at a jewelry store and not knowing about bracelets (Dr. Superman), Wednesday, 3 August 2011 22:07 (thirteen years ago) link

Piping is to the 2010s as pockets were to the 1990s.

― Matt M., Wednesday, August 3, 2011 5:56 PM (17 minutes ago) Bookmark

haha otm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_i_qxQztHRI (Princess TamTam), Wednesday, 3 August 2011 22:13 (thirteen years ago) link

i blame the xmen movies for that shit

I'm a nerd and nerdy things happened (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 3 August 2011 22:17 (thirteen years ago) link

like now every fucking costume has to look like it could translate to real life
it's not real life motherfuckers
IT IS FUNNY BOOKS

I'm a nerd and nerdy things happened (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 3 August 2011 22:18 (thirteen years ago) link

"drawing the line at $2.99"
"keeping it stiffy at $3.50"
"our colorist can't stay alive unless we charge you $5.00"
"you fuckers won't stop torrenting so it's $10.00"

I'm a nerd and nerdy things happened (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 3 August 2011 22:20 (thirteen years ago) link

"We charge an extra dollar cuz everybody got a collar!"

like working at a jewelry store and not knowing about bracelets (Dr. Superman), Wednesday, 3 August 2011 22:28 (thirteen years ago) link

"if Wonder Woman's in pants, won't you please give her a chance?"

like working at a jewelry store and not knowing about bracelets (Dr. Superman), Wednesday, 3 August 2011 22:34 (thirteen years ago) link

Apparently his new costume is "Kryptonian battle armour"

generous loller at dollies (sic), Wednesday, 3 August 2011 22:36 (thirteen years ago) link

(and totally coincidentally "not designed by Siegel & Shuster")

generous loller at dollies (sic), Wednesday, 3 August 2011 22:37 (thirteen years ago) link

I also really like how DC is all "you won't laugh at Aquaman now! He'll rip YOUR hand off!" which clearly puts him into Zapp Brannigan territory. Or B&B Aquaman by accident.

like working at a jewelry store and not knowing about bracelets (Dr. Superman), Wednesday, 3 August 2011 22:37 (thirteen years ago) link

"inspired by a briefing from our IP attorneys...the new DC Universe. You're gonna love the non-binding derivation! There's no stopping us now!"

like working at a jewelry store and not knowing about bracelets (Dr. Superman), Wednesday, 3 August 2011 22:41 (thirteen years ago) link

This thread is making me laugh and cry simultaneously and at once. Dr. Superman so OTM it hurts.

Matt M., Wednesday, 3 August 2011 22:45 (thirteen years ago) link

apparently ALL the new DC costumes are designed by Jim Lee, thus making them weirdly similar and not that good

not bulimic, just a cat (James Morrison), Thursday, 4 August 2011 00:50 (thirteen years ago) link

hahahaha

L.P. Hovercraft (WmC), Thursday, 4 August 2011 01:00 (thirteen years ago) link

Kal-El Debarge

EZ Snappin, Thursday, 4 August 2011 01:08 (thirteen years ago) link

Bravo

I'm a nerd and nerdy things happened (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 4 August 2011 01:13 (thirteen years ago) link

Wait, is that John Barrowman?

WHY DID I AGREE TO BUY THIS SHIT

50,000 raspberries with the face of Peter Ndlovu (aldo), Thursday, 4 August 2011 06:43 (thirteen years ago) link

Truth and justice or we will eat your eyeballs out with a spoon.

Matt M., Thursday, 4 August 2011 14:42 (thirteen years ago) link

fuck jim lee, like seriously

I'm a nerd and nerdy things happened (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 4 August 2011 16:16 (thirteen years ago) link

has Dan Didio ever been shown to recognise and identify a good comic, ever?

generous loller at dollies (sic), Friday, 5 August 2011 01:32 (thirteen years ago) link

Wasn't he the guy who insisted that Countdown was "52 done right"?

like working at a jewelry store and not knowing about bracelets (Dr. Superman), Saturday, 6 August 2011 15:23 (thirteen years ago) link

So, I'm actually reading the Flashpoint mini, and so far it's been pretty fun. Not mindblowing or anything, but some solid and exciting superhero action there. Though it seems like the mini will actually end too soon: only at the end of issue 4 (of 5) do we finally see the villain, and we still don't know how and why exactly did he do what he did. So all that needs to be explained and then resolved in just one issue. I guess it's pretty easy to see how we get from Flashpoint to the reboot (Flash travels back in time, tries to change the timeline back to the way it was, but doesn't quite manage to do it, so we have a new timeline where some things have changed and others remain the same), but it still feels like the actual story here is pretty slim. And as per usual we see dozens of characters who don't really affect the main plot in any way, and who are only there so we'd buy their respective spin-off minis.

Speaking of the minis, has anyone read them and are there any good ones among them? The new Element Woman seems like a cool character but apparently she doesn't appear in any of them. I did read the Batman mini, which was an okay riff on the "what if?" element introduced in the main Flashpoint series, though I have to say the supposedly shocking plot twist was pretty easy to guess, and it seemed to be there mostly for the sake of having a twist.

Tuomas, Saturday, 6 August 2011 16:38 (thirteen years ago) link

Neal Adams did the dead-not-dead kid gimmick better in Odyssey.

like working at a jewelry store and not knowing about bracelets (Dr. Superman), Saturday, 6 August 2011 22:15 (thirteen years ago) link

Schedule is out. Doesn't fill me with hope.

OTOH, LCS sales of DC titles up 400% for the reboot, and I'm not the only one taking all 52 as a trial. Maybe this could actually work?

50,000 raspberries with the face of Peter Ndlovu (aldo), Saturday, 13 August 2011 09:43 (thirteen years ago) link

... for four months.

I'm a nerd and nerdy things happened (forksclovetofu), Saturday, 13 August 2011 12:56 (thirteen years ago) link

Wait, is that John Barrowman?

WHY DID I AGREE TO BUY THIS SHIT

― 50,000 raspberries with the face of Peter Ndlovu (aldo), Thursday, August 4, 2011 2:43 AM (1 week ago) Bookmark


hey, hey - John Barrowman DOES have generic superhero face

Nhex, Saturday, 13 August 2011 23:21 (thirteen years ago) link

two weeks pass...

one of the DC editors just said this about Flashpoint: "in the end it is a story about Bruce Wayne and Barry Allen"
I have to assume he literally means "in the end", like on the last page of the last issue or something because, aw fuck, who cares anymore.

like working at a jewelry store and not knowing about bracelets (Dr. Superman), Monday, 29 August 2011 21:29 (thirteen years ago) link

Haha, that is a weird thing to say, considering Bruce's "role" in the story so far.

Tuomas, Monday, 29 August 2011 21:35 (thirteen years ago) link

I've seen more of Thomas Wayne than Bruce. Granted, I'm only reading the BATMAN spin-off series, but...

Matt M., Monday, 29 August 2011 23:10 (thirteen years ago) link

I guess it's not a big SPOILER (since it's revealed in the second issue) that Bruce Wayne is dead in the Flashpoint continuity; the mugger shot him instead of Thomas and Martha, and the grief drove Thomas to become Batman. That's why the editor's comment is weird, unless he wanted to make some deep point about Bruce's death being the driving force behind Thomas's actions.

Tuomas, Tuesday, 30 August 2011 06:45 (thirteen years ago) link

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/comics/news/a336719/justice-league-1-preorders-top-200000.html

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/comics/news/a337870/justice-league-1-sold-out-at-distribution-level.html

Justice League #1 has exceeded 200,000 preorders, DC Comics has revealed.

The publisher also told the Los Angeles Times that six more of its relaunched titles have exceeded 100,000 advanced sales.

Umm, yeah, that'll convince them it wasn't a good idea.

50,000 raspberries with the face of Peter Ndlovu (aldo), Tuesday, 30 August 2011 21:00 (thirteen years ago) link

Although since I'm part of it, it's my fault too. Justice League 1 ships this week.

50,000 raspberries with the face of Peter Ndlovu (aldo), Tuesday, 30 August 2011 21:01 (thirteen years ago) link

gonna lol if sales for #2 go back down to 50k

now I have to imagine your penis (DJP), Tuesday, 30 August 2011 21:08 (thirteen years ago) link

You mis-spelled "when".

50,000 raspberries with the face of Peter Ndlovu (aldo), Tuesday, 30 August 2011 21:16 (thirteen years ago) link

Justice League 1 ships this week

and is... NOT VERY GOOD surprise surprise. Functional enough in bringing together some JL members, I suppose, but fairly dull. Looks as though issue 2 is Batman and Superman having a fight, so the new 52 will no doubt spend most of its time recapitulating old 52 plots

not bulimic, just a cat (James Morrison), Tuesday, 30 August 2011 23:51 (thirteen years ago) link

The worst thing they could do is to relaunch it only to rush everything into mirroring previous cannon. Like the new Batgirl apparently deals with the fall out of Killing Joke. Way to look to the future by dry-humping a comic that came out nearly a quarter century ago. Can you imagine if comics in 1991 had been so obsessed with comics that came out in 1968? This whole enterprise seems so ill-considered and half-hearted.

like working at a jewelry store and not knowing about bracelets (Dr. Superman), Wednesday, 31 August 2011 00:20 (thirteen years ago) link

Umm, yeah, that'll convince them it wasn't a good idea.

aside from the later sales being almost certain to drop back to par, the digital #s for both the $3.99 and month-on $2.99 versions are the only way of actually measuring any success for this initiative. the 200k jump is self-evidently only to rusted-on speculators, ie the exact audience the entire reboot is designed to go beyond.

rude ragga beats from the F. U. Schnickens (sic), Wednesday, 31 August 2011 00:26 (thirteen years ago) link

DOC SUPERMAN:

I most of what your describing is intended as a show of good faith to the retailers - i.e. "The Killing Joke still counts! You can still sell it!"

Not that that makes it any more half-assed or muddled.

"Please let your friends know about it!!" (R Baez), Wednesday, 31 August 2011 00:28 (thirteen years ago) link

Likewise the Bat-Moz & Sinestro Corps biz. Which is an okay & kinda democratic way of establishing cannon: if it sells, it counts. I think if they copped & held to that, they'd have a healthier relationship with readers & retailers. "When will you stop making terrible, late comics that insult my intelligence & maturity?" "When you stop buying them!"

like working at a jewelry store and not knowing about bracelets (Dr. Superman), Wednesday, 31 August 2011 00:54 (thirteen years ago) link

call me when they go to a "subscribe to our entire line digitally for a reasonable price model"

Fuck the DM, let's look at some actual on-the-ground models:
3 million plus streaming tracks on spotify: $10 a month
12K+ films streaming on netflix: $8 a month
Downloading 52 comics : $150+ a month

At what point does someone get their head out of their ass at Time Warner or Marvel and offer a ten dollar no-ownership digital subscription to the complete and ongoing catalog because I will do that for life if they'd just fucking offer it. I would do that for Dark Horse or Drawn and Quarterly or Fanta or First Second. I would do it for ARCHIE.

Reddit Me Bro (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 31 August 2011 01:14 (thirteen years ago) link

Yeah, I'm no longer so worried about iTunes for comics as I am Netflix for comics. Make it so you can have a virtual library on your side. Bookshelves that can be organized however the hell you want. Just pay a monthly/yearly sub fee to be able to dig into the online archives.

Of course, as a guy who makes comics, I wonder how the hell I can cover my costs, much less hope to...gasp...make some money on my work that way.

Matt M., Wednesday, 31 August 2011 01:19 (thirteen years ago) link

Marvel's kind-of-mediocre-but-present web subscription thing was ok. I don't know if it's still running, but it was basically a way to read all the comics you wanted, albeit only older ones that they'd bothered to add to the catalog, in a Flash interface on their website. I think I paid $60 for a year? Something in that level of reasonable.

unwarranted display names of ilx (mh), Wednesday, 31 August 2011 01:29 (thirteen years ago) link

if it's not on an ipad i'm not biting. Use the fucking dominant tablet morans.

Reddit Me Bro (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 31 August 2011 01:37 (thirteen years ago) link

Yeah, I wish they'd port it to iPad, but I'm thinking their sales stuff with whatever app companies they're using would stop that? In any case, the web version predated the iPad.

unwarranted display names of ilx (mh), Wednesday, 31 August 2011 01:41 (thirteen years ago) link

they're GOING to come around to this; it's just annoying that it's taking so long.

Reddit Me Bro (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 31 August 2011 01:42 (thirteen years ago) link

Maybe once Apple works their way into more subscription stuff and moves all the way down the chain to comics

so, 2016

unwarranted display names of ilx (mh), Wednesday, 31 August 2011 01:49 (thirteen years ago) link

Amazon getting a tablet out there might light a fire under Apple's butts. Maybe.

But doing a quick perusal of tablet offerings, I was astonished to see that the iPad was still pretty solid in the size/cost ratio sweepstakes.

And what's this I hear about the first round of digital DC comics being late?

Matt M., Wednesday, 31 August 2011 05:22 (thirteen years ago) link

3 million plus streaming tracks on spotify: $10 a month
12K+ films streaming on netflix: $8 a month
Downloading 52 comics : $150+ a month

Is this at all a relevant comparison, though? I get that from a consumer perspective, what matters is simply whether XYZ is worth the cost. But I don't think comic books make enough money that the publishers are in a position to offer streaming for trivial revenues, the way the movie/TV/music people are. It's like expecting some low-circulation magazine to offer you the same 800 issues for $8 deal that Details keeps emailing you about.

Bill, Wednesday, 31 August 2011 12:18 (thirteen years ago) link

I think a business model wherein your ten dollar a month library engages a casual reader as a lifetime buyer is far more sustainable than tearing down your continuity every six years and starting from scratch, but what do i know. If I were a parent, I would buy my kids 120 bucks worth of digital comics in a heartbeat and know that I could read them too. Don't know if I would go anywhere near that amount in paper.

Reddit Me Bro (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 31 August 2011 13:14 (thirteen years ago) link

But that sounds like you're talking about digital comics as the primary source of comic book revenue, which definitely isn't comparable to Netflix or Spotify - those services are as cheap as they are because they're licensing things that have already made their money and paid their bills. Like selling your textbooks back at the end of a semester, or selling the reprint rights to a story you've already been paid for - things you do much more cheaply because it's money you aren't depending on. It doesn't really matter how much you charge for Netflix, not from the movie studios' point of view. It's bonus money, not payday.

Bill, Wednesday, 31 August 2011 14:26 (thirteen years ago) link

I mean, I agree that digital comics are overpriced, but I don't think it's realistic to expect them to be all that much cheaper.

I'm also not sure there really IS a good business model for getting people hooked on the same characters for decades on end - soap operas and series novels written by house authors used to have big pieces of the mainstream entertainment pie, and I don't see them getting that back any time soon.

Bill, Wednesday, 31 August 2011 14:30 (thirteen years ago) link

Maybe I'm talking out my ass here, but isn't the cost of paper and distribution like 70% of the cost of a comic? Can't you make a leaner business that produces the same amount of product digitally, pay the creative staff reasonably, lower consumer costs to a mainstream price point? Maybe not if you're fanta or a small press but DC and Marvel's comics are basically loss leaders for the IP anyway; why not increase the exposure, build for the future instead of trying to satisfy collectors/secondary market and engage the iphone/ipad generation directly so that when they reboot iron man/hulk/cap/whatever in 2020 there's an invested group of people that make up your day one audience?

Reddit Me Bro (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 31 August 2011 17:33 (thirteen years ago) link

also people already ARE hooked on the same characters for decades on end; in spite of myself, i'm still curious to see what the current xbook storylines are. The audience is there. Give them a reasonable option or they'll just torrent/steal the material.
This exact same shit on a much larger scale went on with the music industry right? that didn't work out real well. it started happening with books and movies and the entertainment industry, presumably after seeing that shitstorm, opted for kindles and streaming film. Nipped it in the bud. You've got to be willing to adapt to the available technology AND provide reasonable price points, not just one or the other.

Reddit Me Bro (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 31 August 2011 17:36 (thirteen years ago) link

I want to say that advertising, which probably doesn't have the same contract terms for digital, pays off most of the printing/distribution costs?

unwarranted display names of ilx (mh), Wednesday, 31 August 2011 17:41 (thirteen years ago) link

Some people are hooked on the continuing adventures of superheroes for decades on end, sure. Just like some people are hooked on soap operas and the Destroyer (or whatever the current equivalent is) - that's why I was making that comparison. You have your core audience that isn't going to go away. But it isn't growing. Its heyday is a generation in the rearview. There's no sign it's ever going to regain the popularity it once had.

I have no idea how the costs and profits are distributed for comic book sales - I'm sure distribution especially is a big part of it, yeah. I'm not saying a digital comic shouldn't be cheaper than a paper comic. I'm just saying it's misleading to look at the price - essentially the artificially low price - of something like Netflix.

The problem with looking at comic books as loss leaders is that there isn't some bucket of Iron Man money that everyone draws from just because a movie did well. It's not like selling a cheap burger because you make it back on the soda fountain. I'm not sure anyone at Disney ever sits down and looks at the books - again, I have no idea about the breakdown of how much comics cost and earn - and says "well, we're paying twice as much as we made on this comic, but since Robert Downey Jr agreed to do another movie, I'm sure it'll all balance out, the important thing is that the Iron Man property itself is profitable when you take into account the revenues distributed across half a dozen different business entities." I gotta think Disney expects Marvel to pay its own bills, and that Marvel in turn expects their books to earn out.

Bill, Wednesday, 31 August 2011 18:01 (thirteen years ago) link

Sub DC and Warner Brothers since I forgot this is a DC thread, but you know what I mean. Maybe the ability to earn money by optioning these properties is dependent on keeping comics in print, but I don't think that really works as a justification for not making money on the comics.

Bill, Wednesday, 31 August 2011 18:04 (thirteen years ago) link

Occasionally there'll be a business regime that is skeptical of the utility of actually printing comics when all they care about is licensing and related products.

The time when Toy Biz owned Marvel was kind of like that.

unwarranted display names of ilx (mh), Wednesday, 31 August 2011 18:18 (thirteen years ago) link

Does the average comics buyer / would the average comics subscriber read more than, say, six comics a month

thomp, Wednesday, 31 August 2011 18:22 (thirteen years ago) link

i feel like the market is split between people who follow 1-3 things and people who follow several hundred, with little in the middle

thomp, Wednesday, 31 August 2011 18:23 (thirteen years ago) link

If you want to draw people into buying single issues, Justice League #1 might be the exact opposite of how to do it.

like working at a jewelry store and not knowing about bracelets (Dr. Superman), Wednesday, 31 August 2011 18:46 (thirteen years ago) link

1. Didio said the whole point was to get away from "talking heads" comics. Uh huh.
2. This issue is basically Geoff "Green Lantern 4evah" Johns' response to that issue of All Star Batman
3. Without the dramatic irony of knowing much, much more than the characters by dint of having read a million comic books, would I get anything out of the dialogue?
4. I was expecting a lot more action, a lot more characters and fuck, a little bit of exposition.

like working at a jewelry store and not knowing about bracelets (Dr. Superman), Wednesday, 31 August 2011 18:56 (thirteen years ago) link

"why not increase the exposure, build for the future instead of trying to satisfy collectors/secondary market and engage the iphone/ipad generation directly so that when they reboot iron man/hulk/cap/whatever in 2020 there's an invested group of people that make up your day one audience?"

the digital market basically holds no advantage for the major publishers in any medium (if Morrison and Rucka want to jump ship and make Bortman and Bortwoman comics, they could deliver a similar quality product to as many people as they could at DC, with less overhead), so it's actually smart of them to drag their feet a little.

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 31 August 2011 18:59 (thirteen years ago) link

If you want to draw people into buying single issues, Justice League #1 might be the exact opposite of how to do it.

― like working at a jewelry store and not knowing about bracelets (Dr. Superman),

shittiest first issue of anything I've ever read, I think

Halal Spaceboy (WmC), Wednesday, 31 August 2011 19:10 (thirteen years ago) link

I flipped through JL #1 and was all "why the hell would anyone buy this unless they were already addicted to the characters"

like I almost got fished in by the ORIGIN OF CYBORG angle but aside from that, fuck that in the ear

beemer douchebag (DJP), Wednesday, 31 August 2011 19:14 (thirteen years ago) link

Nunez, good point

Reddit Me Bro (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 31 August 2011 19:40 (thirteen years ago) link

From CR contributor Bart Beaty, in this morning's e-mail.

"True comics story: My five year old has recently started enjoying going to the comics store since I buy him NBM's Smurfs translations. The store has a section where they put out all the free postcards and promo books, which he knows he's allowed to take. He's just learning to read on his own, so he is fascinated by these things and reads them over and over: 'Black Panther is a man without fear! What does that mean, dad?' I usually can't answer these questions.

"So last week he picked up DC's preview of the relaunch and said 'Who's the man with the Superman t-shirt?' I told him it was Superman. He said 'No, Superman has a cape.' The store owner assured him that this was indeed the new Superman and Sebastian just rolled his eyes and said 'Superman has a cape' and walked away.

"At least there's still Smurfs for this kid."

rude ragga beats from the F. U. Schnickens (sic), Thursday, 1 September 2011 00:41 (thirteen years ago) link

Mysterious woman obviously Diane Nelson. Or Diane Chambers. Either way, she was the most prominent female in either issues not assigned plot-serving-victim role.

like working at a jewelry store and not knowing about bracelets (Dr. Superman), Thursday, 1 September 2011 00:59 (thirteen years ago) link

Helpful, possibly erroneous sumary of final Flashpoint issue:

The Reverse-Flash reveals he is Barry's father, and refers to Barry as "quicklime" (a pun on his speed powers, and reference to lime as a method for destroying murder victims). He uses a device called the Cosmic Wheelbarrow to carry Barry and several bystanding superheroes back to 1962. A piece of Billy Batson's costume inadvertently induces the invention of disco music a decade too early. Terrified as the fabric of the cosmos begins to unravel, the Guardians of the Galaxy step in and 'reboot' the universe, leading to the "new DC Universe".

not bulimic, just a cat (James Morrison), Thursday, 1 September 2011 05:14 (thirteen years ago) link

from wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flashpoint_%28comics%29, i meant to say

not bulimic, just a cat (James Morrison), Thursday, 1 September 2011 05:14 (thirteen years ago) link

lol, awesome

rude ragga beats from the F. U. Schnickens (sic), Thursday, 1 September 2011 05:23 (thirteen years ago) link

Okay, I read the final issue of Flashpoint, and the final scene in it was indeed all about Bruce and Barry. And I gotta hand it to Johns: that scene was really good and touching, I've never seen him write such emotional stuff so well. Other than that, Flashpoint #5 was pretty awful... Just a few observations:

* The villain was defeated with the most boring, unimaginative way possible.
* The reason why the DC universe had changed the way it did was explained with a rushed flashback. Was there a longer version of the story in one of the offshoot minis I didn't read?
* Other than the reason stated above, there was NO EXPLANATION why the one change of the past made the DC universe such a crappy place. I thought it was implied Reverse Flash had purposefully altered history at several points so that everything turned out for the worse, but apparently not? Looks like that one change just managed to create a butterfly effect that made everything awful, without any further explanation. How did Barry Allen saving her mom cause Bruce Wayne to die as a kid instead of his parents, for example? I think the shooting of Bruce's parents was supposed to have earlier than the death of Barry's mom, since Bruce was younger when it happened and Barry doesn't seem to be older than Bruce. It just doesn't make sense!
* None of the supporting characters got any sort of closure in the series at all! For example, in this issue Superman functioned as a Deus Ex Machina and nothing more. It's hella irritating to have such big bunch of supporting characters in a crossover mini for no other reason than to try sell their respective minis to the reader. It'd be nice if the writer gave at least some consideration to those of us who only read the main series.
* The explanation how all this resulted to the DC Universe reboot was irritatingly vague, and it was very obvious that Johns included a backdoor to change it all back (the mysterious cosmic being talking to Barry). So let's see how long it takes before the reboot is rebooted again...

Tuomas, Monday, 5 September 2011 17:51 (thirteen years ago) link

It would've been a cool issue if it had actually shown scene by scene the series of event that led to Bruce being shot instead of Thomas instead of just asserting that one led to the other. Real failure of imagination imho.

Mordy, Monday, 5 September 2011 19:23 (thirteen years ago) link

Er, I didn't mean it should've shown everything, but since the story was like "OMG, it wasn't Thawne after all, it was Barry saving his mom that changed everything!", it should've at least tried to explain in some way how that lead to Bruce being shot and all the other awful things. Now it was just like, "It's time travel magic!". If Johns wanted to make the reader feel Barry's moral conflict about choosing to save his mother or letting her die, he should've at least illustrated it by explaining how it lead to these terrible consequences instead of pulling the consequences out of his ass. Basically Johns decided to change an easily justifiable villainous plot (Thawne manipulated the past at various points to create the Flashpoint world) into the hero's personal tragedy (Barry caused all this by saving his mom) without bothering to justify the latter scenario. And it didn't help that even the personal tragedy aspect was diminished by explaining it all in a quick and rushed flashback scene.

Tuomas, Tuesday, 6 September 2011 07:12 (thirteen years ago) link

Also, it was pretty damn convenient that Barry remembered everything else about his former life in the old DC continuity, except for the fact that he decided to save his mom. The series spent 4/5 of it's length setting up Reverse Flash as the villain, but in the end it was all for nothing. The main plot would've been the same even if Thawne had not appeared in the series all.

Tuomas, Tuesday, 6 September 2011 07:18 (thirteen years ago) link

So JL #1 was basically a Michael Bay comic, then.

Chuck_Tatum, Tuesday, 6 September 2011 12:57 (thirteen years ago) link

Dammit, this is probably gonna make me spend some money.

"Please let your friends know about it!!" (R Baez), Wednesday, 7 September 2011 01:03 (thirteen years ago) link

...but all of those look horrible. (except maybe the war one. and I didn't read the Action thing cos I know I'm interested already.)

challopian rubes (sic), Wednesday, 7 September 2011 01:10 (thirteen years ago) link

interested in Action, Batgirl (new Gail Simone!), Detective Comics, ok, curious to read new Liefeld bc train wrecks are fun to watch, Swamp Man (maybe), um maybe Green Arrow

Mordy, Wednesday, 7 September 2011 01:18 (thirteen years ago) link

The Snyder books look alright - a reliable source (i.e. the estimable Zack Soto) sez Swamp Thing is a contender.

OWLS 3D (R Baez), Wednesday, 7 September 2011 01:19 (thirteen years ago) link

Oh I thought Snyder was writing Animal Man as well - that's Lemire. That's another one I'm looking forward to.

OWLS 3D (R Baez), Wednesday, 7 September 2011 01:23 (thirteen years ago) link

Action #1 was allright

you will always be wrong (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 8 September 2011 18:48 (thirteen years ago) link

I picked them up 3 hours ago but can't face them at the moment (with maybe the Winnicky book called Batwing being the one I'm most fearful of) but I will do them in alphabetical order soon.

50,000 raspberries with the face of Peter Ndlovu (aldo), Thursday, 8 September 2011 19:40 (thirteen years ago) link

Animal Man was promising i thought. I'm on board for Action but the first issue didn't really stand out

Number None, Thursday, 8 September 2011 19:43 (thirteen years ago) link

supermoz is generally an easy sell for me. i'll wait for the trade tho

thank got forks showed up (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 8 September 2011 21:14 (thirteen years ago) link

God fucking damn, this is stupid
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/09/08/north-carolina-comic-shop-to-boycott-action-comics/

Number None, Thursday, 8 September 2011 22:32 (thirteen years ago) link

are they certain it's g_d d__n and not just GD like OOF or BLUP?

Philip Nunez, Thursday, 8 September 2011 22:43 (thirteen years ago) link

It's Grant Daddy

EZ Snappin, Thursday, 8 September 2011 22:45 (thirteen years ago) link

Yeah, i'm pretty sure it's onomatopoeic

Number None, Thursday, 8 September 2011 22:48 (thirteen years ago) link

http://i.imgur.com/YQZP9.gif

Philip Nunez, Thursday, 8 September 2011 22:51 (thirteen years ago) link

TT!

As I said elsewhere, if this is the last straw for this retailer, then he hasn't been paying attention to comics for the last forty years.

Matt M., Friday, 9 September 2011 00:13 (thirteen years ago) link

it's the last unfrozen Buddy Saunders

challopian rubes (sic), Friday, 9 September 2011 00:32 (thirteen years ago) link

I remember when comic shops used to go to bat for Omaha the Dancing Cat and had a backroom full of spank mags. Shrug.
Enjoyed Action, tho RM perhaps needs to decide how old Supes is and stick with it throughout the whole issue. I even liked the scene where Superman changed onto his Peter Parker persona.

like working at a jewelry store and not knowing about bracelets (Dr. Superman), Friday, 9 September 2011 03:12 (thirteen years ago) link

I remember when comic shops used to go to bat for Omaha the Dancing Cat

uh dude, re-read the last two words above your post

challopian rubes (sic), Friday, 9 September 2011 04:31 (thirteen years ago) link

"Also, it was pretty damn convenient that Barry remembered everything else about his former life in the old DC continuity, except for the fact that he decided to save his mom."

They didn't play it that way but I figured when Barry Allen came back a couple of years ago, it should have been the old Earth 1 version that knew how things were before the Crisis on Infinite Earths and he should have been able to see the changes that happened in the wake of that series.

earlnash, Friday, 9 September 2011 05:07 (thirteen years ago) link

btw, moz is notorious for creating bullshit onomatopoeia; gd is right up there with tchkkkkk and mwuuuuuu

thank got forks showed up (forksclovetofu), Friday, 9 September 2011 05:09 (thirteen years ago) link

What about the all-time classic "hh"?

Btw, since I'm not familiar with the American conservative mindset, I'm not sure what the North Carolina person is even protesting against... The fact that Superman said "God", or that Morrison abbreviated it to "Gd"?

I wonder how he felt about All-Star Superman, where Superman is revealed to be the actual "god" that created our universe?

Tuomas, Friday, 9 September 2011 06:31 (thirteen years ago) link

Sorry, Sic, I didn't get the reference.

like working at a jewelry store and not knowing about bracelets (Dr. Superman), Friday, 9 September 2011 08:04 (thirteen years ago) link

I don't get it either... Who's Buddy Saunders? This guy?

Tuomas, Friday, 9 September 2011 08:14 (thirteen years ago) link

He's written some pretty thoroughly debunked/torn down bits for icv2 about how comics aren't good for kids yadda yadda. Interestingly, Beguiling just announced they're opening North America's first kids-only comic shop. Hopefully of those cute Tiny Titans comics starring cuddly versions of Dr. RapeLight & Deathstab the Eviscerator.

like working at a jewelry store and not knowing about bracelets (Dr. Superman), Friday, 9 September 2011 08:41 (thirteen years ago) link

Seriously, wtf is wring with comics that Tiny Titans exists and wins industry awards?

like working at a jewelry store and not knowing about bracelets (Dr. Superman), Friday, 9 September 2011 08:44 (thirteen years ago) link

Saunders campaigned superhard in the '80s for comic shops to band together and take a moral stand about carrying corrupting influences like Omaha and Miracleman and Love & Rockets

challopian rubes (sic), Friday, 9 September 2011 12:22 (thirteen years ago) link

and remember, at the time DIAMOND didn't even carry Omaha, bcz Geppi was personally opposed to it!

challopian rubes (sic), Friday, 9 September 2011 12:23 (thirteen years ago) link

so

challopian rubes (sic), Friday, 9 September 2011 12:23 (thirteen years ago) link

Gd is short for goddamn, which many conservative xtian types equate with taking the lord's name in vain... Can't break the commandments.
Lotsa people i grew up with thought "goddamn" was as offensive as "cunt"

thank got forks showed up (forksclovetofu), Friday, 9 September 2011 12:38 (thirteen years ago) link

A lot still do. Can't wait to see how DC and GM respond to this. (I'm still in my first cup of coffee, haven't looked at the comics news sites yet today.)

Halal Spaceboy (WmC), Friday, 9 September 2011 14:02 (thirteen years ago) link

so can we talk spoilers re new action comics yet? SPOILERmaybe: so Superman is no longer invincible, just really really strong? and is the suggestion that he's getting stronger (i think they mentioned that when he first came to the city he wasn't quite as strong as he is now)? presumably bc the longer he's under our sun the more powerful he gets, tho this would suggest that his powers only recently developed so i wonder if he has the same baby crashed to earth backstory or if he's a more recent transplant.

Mordy, Friday, 9 September 2011 14:09 (thirteen years ago) link

I can only wonder what said retailer would have thought regarding these pages that are in a MARVEL ESSENTIALS book that's probably on his shelves: http://highway-62.com/wp/?p=1593

Matt M., Friday, 9 September 2011 14:20 (thirteen years ago) link

there is NO WAY superman has the time to say "gd" and the forethought to censor himself
i would bet good money morrison is TOTALLY unaware that this trope even exists.

thank got forks showed up (forksclovetofu), Friday, 9 September 2011 14:56 (thirteen years ago) link

He's Superman, of course he has the time and inclination to self-censor. WELCOME TO COMICS.

like working at a jewelry store and not knowing about bracelets (Dr. Superman), Friday, 9 September 2011 22:29 (thirteen years ago) link

did superman make a habit of texting jimmy before the reboot? that just seems so much worse.
superman don't text!

Philip Nunez, Friday, 9 September 2011 22:43 (thirteen years ago) link

Jury's out on ACTION. Kinda like it. Kinda don't. Tough to put my finger on. Much of the frisson seems to come from the space between what we expect the character to be and who they are on the page. Not sure if that's enough, but will give it a while. Luthor read a lot like how Alan Moore played him in SWAMP THING, at least that's how it came across to me. Not sure if that'll change with time or not.

Matt M., Saturday, 10 September 2011 04:26 (thirteen years ago) link

Looks like the Comic Conspiracy guy has caved, though he's not really explicit about it and is still wrapping it all up in "I JUST WANT YOU ALL TO KNOW I'M A CHRISTIAN!!!"

Halal Spaceboy (WmC), Saturday, 10 September 2011 14:00 (thirteen years ago) link

The main thing I'm taking away from the DC reboot is that it's really boring reading a bunch of first issues. (Action in particular left me cold, but I seem to be the only person who didn't like All-Star Superman, so maybe I just don't like Grant Morrison Superman stories.) Not disappointed by Animal Man yet, though.

Bill, Saturday, 10 September 2011 18:33 (thirteen years ago) link

I seem to be the only person who didn't like All-Star Superman,

You could be! I've never seen another dissenting view.

Halal Spaceboy (WmC), Saturday, 10 September 2011 18:36 (thirteen years ago) link

Me either! I didn't think it was BAD per se - it's Morrison - I just didn't like it enough to keep reading it.

Bill, Saturday, 10 September 2011 18:38 (thirteen years ago) link

That Green Arrow cover is like those cupcakes that look like hot dogs. I know that it isn't an Image comic, but my eyes think I'm lying to them.

Bill, Saturday, 10 September 2011 21:11 (thirteen years ago) link

When does the George Lopez version of Superman start?

like working at a jewelry store and not knowing about bracelets (Dr. Superman), Sunday, 11 September 2011 02:09 (thirteen years ago) link

right after Modern Family... NEXT!

thank got forks showed up (forksclovetofu), Sunday, 11 September 2011 13:34 (thirteen years ago) link

Should have posted this here instead of aldo's thread --

Is it too spoilery to talk about the Flashpoint Mystery Woman?

Antonio Carlos Broheem (WmC), Sunday, 11 September 2011 13:37 (thirteen years ago) link

I already mentioned her upthread. I've no idea what she, or the sequence she appeared in were supposed to signify. Like I said above, my hunch is that she was only added to the story as a backdoor, so there's an easy way to reverse the reboot if DC wants to do so.

Tuomas, Sunday, 11 September 2011 15:57 (thirteen years ago) link

She's made a tiny appearance in all, or almost all, of the #1's so far.

Antonio Carlos Broheem (WmC), Sunday, 11 September 2011 16:07 (thirteen years ago) link

Yay, a giant crossover!

Number None, Sunday, 11 September 2011 16:08 (thirteen years ago) link

So far I've read Action Comics, Batgirl, Detective Comics, Justice League, and Green Arrow (I also looked thru Hawk + Dove to gawk at ridiculous Liefeld artistry). I've got Static Shock, OMAC, and Swamp Thing still to read but I'm getting bored of all this nonsense. Is anyone enjoying any of this?

Mordy, Sunday, 11 September 2011 16:15 (thirteen years ago) link

http://i53.tinypic.com/2yyyqmc.png

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzORu1dqEE0

Mordy, Sunday, 11 September 2011 16:20 (thirteen years ago) link

Bits of it are good. Not nearly enough though.

50,000 raspberries with the face of Peter Ndlovu (aldo), Sunday, 11 September 2011 16:37 (thirteen years ago) link

have spent the last hour searching internet for the panel from an 80s issue of Checkmate where they sing "Life During Wartime". It's out there. I've seen it recently.

like working at a jewelry store and not knowing about bracelets (Dr. Superman), Sunday, 11 September 2011 18:28 (thirteen years ago) link

that's awesome

Mordy, Sunday, 11 September 2011 18:29 (thirteen years ago) link

I got:

action comics
animal man
batgirl
batwing
justice league international
men of war
stormwatch
swamp thing

Swamp thing and Animal Man exceeded expectations. Men of War I got on a whim and ended up liking a lot too. JLI and Batgirl were adequate, I'll stick with them. Action Comics was fine but I think I'll trade-wait. Stormwatch was incomprehensible, I got it because I like Paul Cornell but I never read Stormwatch before. I have pretty low standards but I tend to not enjoy galactic-scale books as much as street-level stories. Batwing I kinda liked, I could see it getting better or getting worse just as easily (this is a terrible review, eh) but I don't know if I personally can handle that level of realism.

teeny, Sunday, 11 September 2011 23:23 (thirteen years ago) link

FRANKENSTEIN is perfectly fine as a straight-up rip of HELLBOY/BPRD, but why wouldn't you just read HELLBOY/BPRD?

Work Hard, Flunky! (R Baez), Thursday, 15 September 2011 03:44 (thirteen years ago) link

Resurrection Man's off to a good start, but I loved the original so I'm easy to please here.

Bill, Thursday, 15 September 2011 14:42 (thirteen years ago) link

Stormwatch was straight-up garbage with one good idea torpedoed by a bunch of incoherent, incompatible ones. The tone of most of the returning characters was completely off, especially Jenny Quantum and Jack Hawksmoor, and the new characters are all hot garbage compared to Swift and The Doctor, not to mention all of the non-Authority Stormwatch characters (Fahrenheit, Flint, Battalion, Hellstrike, Winter, Fuji, Synergy). The whole thing is a fucking mess that I have absolutely zero interest in reading; this is the first time I've felt this way about Stormwatch/Authority characters since I first started reading with Ellis's original Stormwatch run (and they've gone through some ROUGH patches in the intervening years).

I leafed through Suicide Squad and, even though I had no idea who half the characters were, it seemed intriguing. I might go back and get it.

Static Shock was stale and boring, basically playing up all of the Spider-Man parallels at the expense of the stuff that actually makes Virgil an interesting, distinct character, plus most of those gaps were filled with AWFUL nonsense wholly out of character for Hardware. I'd planned on picking this up because of my love for the old Milestone line but it seems really unlikely.

Justice League came across better actually reading it than it did leafing through but I don't know if I have the patience to wait around for Cyborg to show up as Cyborg.

Grifter was genuinely entertaining! I never really cared too much about the WildC.A.T.S. characters in comparison to Stormwatch/Authority and Gen13 but this does a good job of showing why Grifter became so popular, plus the mystery of what happened to him and the randomness of the attacks against him are genuinely engaging. This is the only title I'm currently planning on continuing to follow.

I was going to investigate Justice League Dark but, after the wholesale failure of Stormwatch #1 I'm not going near anything Cornell writes unless by accident.

sick yr finger up his butt (DJP), Thursday, 15 September 2011 15:52 (thirteen years ago) link

I thought Justice League Dark is going to be written by Peter Milligan?

mh, Thursday, 15 September 2011 16:00 (thirteen years ago) link

Just about to post that as well.

Work Hard, Flunky! (R Baez), Thursday, 15 September 2011 16:01 (thirteen years ago) link

Oh is it? lol nevermind then

What's the other thing Cornell is going to write? I want to publicly announce I'm going to avoid it and then huffily cross my arms.

sick yr finger up his butt (DJP), Thursday, 15 September 2011 16:02 (thirteen years ago) link

He's writing that DEMON KNIGHTS (?) thingy - it came out yesterday, I think. I'm avoiding it because nothing with the words "demon" or "knight" near each other can ever be good. It's a fact.

Work Hard, Flunky! (R Baez), Thursday, 15 September 2011 16:13 (thirteen years ago) link

Tales From The Crypt - Demon Knight was good, though! Granted it wasn't a comic book.

sick yr finger up his butt (DJP), Thursday, 15 September 2011 16:15 (thirteen years ago) link

Somebody page when DC launches a Bordello of Blood series.

like working at a jewelry store and not knowing about bracelets (Dr. Superman), Thursday, 15 September 2011 17:50 (thirteen years ago) link

Funky is completely OTM about FRANKENSTEIN, unfortunately. It's not working anything new in that vein when it could be. Too fast a read as well.

Matt M., Friday, 16 September 2011 14:34 (thirteen years ago) link

FRANKENSTEIN would have been awesome if Frank had shot Fishwoman in the face when she introduced herself:

"Is one such as I not proof enough against perverting Nature, rendering it a mere plaything of men?!"

Work Hard, Flunky! (R Baez), Friday, 16 September 2011 15:47 (thirteen years ago) link

By the way, merging Wildstorm into the DC universe is the stupidest idea ever.

mh, Friday, 16 September 2011 15:51 (thirteen years ago) link

honestly, I think the main reason Grifter worked for me was because there was practically zero indication that it was occurring in the main DC universe

sick yr finger up his butt (DJP), Friday, 16 September 2011 15:52 (thirteen years ago) link

I kind of liked that character previously and the comic made absolutely no sense, having read past stuff.

mh, Friday, 16 September 2011 16:03 (thirteen years ago) link

+1 to Funky's comment.

Matt M., Friday, 16 September 2011 16:13 (thirteen years ago) link

ha, all I really know about Grifter is that he's a sharpshooter from Team 7, so I didn't have much of a foundation to contradict

sick yr finger up his butt (DJP), Friday, 16 September 2011 16:15 (thirteen years ago) link

I guess the worst thing about FRANKENSTEIN was that it felt completely by the numbers and boring. A book like that shouldn't be boring. It should be insane.

Matt M., Friday, 16 September 2011 16:16 (thirteen years ago) link

I liked the Wildcats 3.0 stuff Joe Casey did and the Brubaker Sleeper issues that he was in. x-post

mh, Friday, 16 September 2011 16:17 (thirteen years ago) link

It looks a little like they are merging some of his origin story with Voodoo's; I am assuming that the ppl hunting him are possessed by Daemonites.

sick yr finger up his butt (DJP), Friday, 16 September 2011 16:22 (thirteen years ago) link

though it would have been funnier if they'd stolen the "exotic dancer" portion rather than the "can sense Daemonites" portion

sick yr finger up his butt (DJP), Friday, 16 September 2011 16:25 (thirteen years ago) link

I guess the worst thing about FRANKENSTEIN was that it felt completely by the numbers and boring. A book like that shouldn't be boring. It should be insane.

I enjoyed the art, but yer dead-on. "Here's your team of monster pals" seems far too obvious and cutesy.

If you stuck with the same premise but changed things up a bit, it could be slightly more interesting: you could begin in media res - Frankenstein fighting fighting fighting a million monsters or so in a small town, all madness and adrenaline, with all the expo being done by the occasional intercut to Father Time and SHADE, and then end ("We're sending in reinforcements, Frank!") with the intro of The Monster Squad; we'll climax w/ a final two pages of Frank shooting Abe Fishlady, just to show that WE DO THINGS DIFFERENT HERE IN THE NU-DCU or something, whatever, it's still neat.

It'd be a better read, I think.

Work Hard, Flunky! (R Baez), Friday, 16 September 2011 16:42 (thirteen years ago) link

And that's why I don't write comics.

Work Hard, Flunky! (R Baez), Friday, 16 September 2011 16:50 (thirteen years ago) link

I probably lean too far towards linear storytelling, but even I recognize that there's times to break that and GET IN THE ACTION RIGHT NOW. First issues are a good place to break that rule (though I almost never do it myself.)

Matt M., Friday, 16 September 2011 17:16 (thirteen years ago) link


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