DRAY v KLAY

if basketball=nut kicking dray is HOF

http://www.thomstratton.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/IVoted.jpg

pretty damn hard to pick imo.

not that hard imo, golden state's roster serves to underrate klay and overrate draymond. put draymond on an average team and ppl would talk about him roughly like how they talk about steven adams.

need to try to remember some of my old logins

imo if you put klay on a bad team he puts up an empty 24-25 ppg. if anyone is a system player it is he. the warriors system works because of drays versatility not the other way around

Klay is one of the best shooters in the league and a serviceable perimeter defender. Dray is a better defender and a worse shooter (significantly) who can do more things on the court tho i think his 3 pt ability is perhaps more significant given his position and who he guards. i think if u put both of them on teams w league avg dudes, klay's team would put up more than wins, and generally speaking i think klay's skillset is more generally valuable so i vote Klay

dray is an all world defender but a far below average scorer and a good playmaker where people think hes great cause hes playing with great players to playmake with

i think he might have a thing for kicking people in the nuts . not sure if that's a pos or a neg tho

draymond has only kicked someone in the nuts once tbf

phil spector only shot someone once too, just gonna put that out there

it true we shd prob refer to drays repeat behavior as nut hunting

exactly

dray is better but that doesn't excuse his nut hunting

put draymond on an average team and ppl would talk about him roughly like how they talk about steven adams.

― call all destroyer, Friday, February 24, 2017 12:04 PM (fifty-nine minutes ago) Bookmark

this is crazy

draymond is no offensive superstar but he has a serviceable three point shot and is one of the best playmaking bigs in the game

klay is elite at one of the most important skills in the NBA but i agree that on a middling team he'd be mostly empty points, gimme dray's all around game and crazy intensity

if anyone is a system player it is he. the warriors system works because of drays versatility not the other way around

― k3vin k., Friday, February 24, 2017 12:08 PM (fifty-nine minutes ago) Bookmark

i agree with this

his playmaking is good but no one wld be talking abt it if he wasnt playing with guys who constantly create the halfcourt fast break, like he cant take advantage of ppl going under on the pnr cause hes not a good enough shooter etc, hed have 4-5 assists a game on a normal team, and lets be clear on his scoring hes shooting 43% and scoring 10 a game in a situation where he gets more open looks than anyone else in the entire nba, hes is bad at doing points

if anyone is a system player it is he. the warriors system works because of drays versatility not the other way around

― k3vin k., Friday, February 24, 2017 12:08 PM (fifty-nine minutes ago) Bookmark

i agree with this

― J0rdan S., Friday, February 24, 2017 1:08 PM (three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

the warriors shd be given credit for coming up with a great system for their players, the difference between the jackson years and now is lol, but there are a lot of players that cld work in drays spot the system wld just have to shift, which isnt that hard to do when you have the talent they do

there are more players like klay in the NBA than there are like draymond

only a very handful of guys who can shoot like klay, which is the single most valuable basketball skill

and besides basketball isnt decided on scarcity, its decided on being good at basketball

idk we can do the "on a bad team" thing all day, if draymond is on a bad team he's putting up like a 13/8/4 with lousy shooting percentages. he plays great in their system but his teammates are literally the best shooters in the league so i'm not sure how much he's elevating them further.

i think we can all agree that most of his value is on the other side of the ball regardless, hes great at lots of different defensive things

it's true he's one of the best defenders in the NBA

he is insanely good and versatile at D, maybe the most versatile defender since kg?

yeah can't think of too many guys since who were unmovable on the block and also a terror while on the move

his playmaking is good but no one wld be talking abt it if he wasnt playing with guys who constantly create the halfcourt fast break, like he cant take advantage of ppl going under on the pnr cause hes not a good enough shooter etc, hed have 4-5 assists a game on a normal team, and lets be clear on his scoring hes shooting 43% and scoring 10 a game in a situation where he gets more open looks than anyone else in the entire nba, hes is bad at doing points

― lag∞n, Friday, February 24, 2017 1:11 PM (four hours ago)

his usage is like 15% because he plays on the same team as the 2 best offensive players in the NBA, come on

if anyone is a system player it is he. the warriors system works because of drays versatility not the other way around

― k3vin k., Friday, February 24, 2017 12:08 PM (fifty-nine minutes ago) Bookmark

i agree with this

― J0rdan S., Friday, February 24, 2017 1:08 PM (three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

the warriors shd be given credit for coming up with a great system for their players, the difference between the jackson years and now is lol, but there are a lot of players that cld work in drays spot the system wld just have to shift, which isnt that hard to do when you have the talent they do

― lag∞n, Friday, February 24, 2017 1:13 PM (four hours ago)

omg you might have heard of this thing called the death lineup for which he is the centerpiece

lol he is not

without dray that lineup gives up approximately one million points per possession

well yeah playing 4 on 5 is never gonna work

oh you

lol

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

imo if you put klay on a bad team he puts up an empty 24-25 ppg. if anyone is a system player it is he. the warriors system works because of drays versatility not the other way around

I don't think "he would just average 25 ppg" is a strong argument that someone is a system player

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

lol

bad results!!

is results the name of your dog?

im with k3vin on this one

it is quite possible that many ilh voters mistakenly believed they were voting for beloved poster me, thus skewing the results

i know i did

i thought i was voting for pottery

I voted for Klay to revolt against the elites

ugh so mad at you

http://a1.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=%2Fphoto%2F2017%2F0316%2Fr191066_1296x864_3%2D2.jpg&w=360&h=240&scale=crop&cquality=40&location=center

something for everyone here

“You know what, Steph Curry has took a step back,” Rodman said. “And it’s cool. It’s actually cool because if you see his game now, I always said with that Golden State team, I always say one thing: that one player is the player right there that makes that team. Who is that player?…

“That is right there: Thompson,” Rodman said. “That kid right there is good. If he went to another team, he’d suck. What I’m saying is that Klay Thompson makes that team. Everybody’s always worried about Curry. I know Curry’s dad and all that bulls—. But Klay Thompson makes that team. It ain’t Green, that guy, no. It’s Klay Thompson.”

lol im 90% sure rodman meant to be talking about dray and just doubled down when he realized what hed done

also he wanted to compliment dray cause of the similarities of their games but then felt threatened by that and said hed suck on another team

why are so many of these x-players so dumb.

if were talking abt designing an alt basketball league with rules that contrast to nba play id go with: 1st to 100 no game clock, 4 on 4 short court, no foul shots players just get the points if theyre fouled in the act, no charges on plays where the defender isnt actively guarding the ball handler ie no sliding in on a driver, soccer style rolling inbounding, hockey style live line changes, no live ball timeouts, 20 second shot clock, euro style playing the ball off the rim in the cylinder, wider court so the 3pt line is uniform and theres more room to shoot in corners, more room under the basket ie move the baseline back relative to the basket, 40 game season, no fouling out, call the foul after the play on fastbreaks, ... and trampolines jk

lol wrong thred

maybe ill make a new thread

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/to-ron-adams-draymond-green-is-the-defensive-equivalent-of-steph-currys-magic/

pretty cool list

http://bkref.com/tiny/5o3Cg

omg the junkyard dog

oh wait no i was thinking of a diff junkyard dog

http://bkref.com/tiny/tNnSs

klay's career playoff numbers x_x

I'd take Draymond. Not close, he's way more unique, valuable. You could find a reasonable Klay facsimile, but not one for Draymond https://t.co/7XGvRXeqGe

— Haralabos Voulgaris (@haralabob) May 31, 2017

kevins twitter crush said so

dray > klay

— Kevin (@radiokeller) June 1, 2017

testing to see if deleted tweets get deleted on ilx

stet up to stuff

it's a pretty sick feature major props

yeah that showed foresight

still can't believe this is up for debate

haha tbf to others i honestly didn't realize the whole thing embedded if you have images on, i can see how that could start to be annoying. the images off version is pretty ideal tho

i like seeing the whole tweet

oh weird i didnt know that either (as i have images off)

images are good folks

theyre cool if u want to look at stuff

they're bad actually

hmm that doesnt seem right but maybe

no they are indeed the best thing

ahh a lively debate for all

they're actually fine i just mostly use ilx at work and prefer it to be text only

actualkyk,,

ilh is maybe the most twitterlink-heavy board so i appreciate this feature.

dubs w/o kd or dray wld be so flammable, they cld prob stand to lose steph a lil better but they wld def suffer from a playmaking perspective, klay wld be the easiest to lose

― lag∞n, Wednesday, July 5, 2017 3:47 PM (five hours ago)

fair point tbh

mods im being trolled

there is but one mod jesus bise

Lol lagoon outed himself all is right in the world

um hello have u guys ever heard of "context"

Goon I have assessed the act in question. It is not, as you say, a troll. It is an own. You've been owned.

Mod-confirmt pwnage

i admire strong leadership

impeach the mods

^a voice crying in the wilderness

the mods on this website are worse than domald trump

Your mom is worse than "domald trump"

wow if this were a fantasy league lagoon would be 100% owned

im not owned im not a corn cob im correct

some classic draymond tonight

Saving this one

Dennis Smith Jr. tries to dunk on Draymond, Draymond says: “You aint ever gonna dunk on me. You’re a boy. Never!” pic.twitter.com/mwEHiKfQ0R

— Rob Perez (@World_Wide_Wob) October 24, 2017

“Aye man who is this?” 😂😂😂 @warriorsworld pic.twitter.com/BbdDHAws9i

— Jason Guerrero (@guerreWHOA) October 24, 2017

talking shit after fouling someone is, audacious

yr never gonna dunk on me, yr a boy, im gonna foul u instead

smh

dray : klay :: cp3 : dwill

i'll show myself out

shooting has a lot better chance of aging well than running around on defense

i love dray so much

shooting has a lot better chance of aging well than running around on defense

― lag∞n, Tuesday, October 24, 2017 9:23 AM (six hours ago)

yeah klay will have a longer career, i was referring to when the debates were raging

draymond will age really well for a big tho. his body is very proportional & he has no injury history whatsoever. and his game is not really about his athleticism.

is his game not about athleticism or is it about squeezing out every bit of athleticism he currently possesses, something to think abt

regardless players tend not to stay dominant defenders for long, except for big men with exceptional physical gifts

and even then the clock is ticking

dray also is an extremely effortful player which is something thats hard to maintain, especially with success, even if u do go the extra step to hype yrself up by doing insanely corny shit like flexing after an uncontested dunk or talking smack to a guy u just fouled

sorry all i heard is i'm a hater who was wrong about dray

loving draymond is a moral failing

sorry all i heard is i'm a hater who was wrong about dray

― k3vin k., Tuesday, October 24, 2017 12:50 PM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i dont know why u guys are talking to me when u shd be talking to god

people say dray is also one of the smartest players they've ever seen, i think that will take him a long way

hes def kinda a basketball genius, tho not smart enough to not do a full crouch when shooting idk why its always this way with basketball geniuses, anyway i dont see his style of play having great longevity regardless, i mean hell still be around and people prob wont even notice hes dropped off cause what he does isnt as obvious as like being an elite scorer, but he will have dropped off still

hes already 27 kinda crazy, came into the league old

he has a david west/zach randolph type body. those guys are built to last. he doesn't have their scoring skill but he'll play for as long as he wants i think.

yeah but those guys didnt build their game around insane switching defense, although west was certainly a very good defender in his day he was never a guard 1-5 type (which is never actually true!) (unless yr kevin garnett)

anyway im not saying that hell be out of the league just that based on his style of play hell prob have a shorter peak than say a great shooter would

theres a good chance weve already seen his peak peak

which to be clear is all-nba level

ive said before he deserved the dpoy, but on the other hand klay is one of the best shooters to ever play and has the fastest release in the whole nba according to the science website 538.com, shooting is considered an important nba skill and to my understanding he does some other stuff decently too

i mean if ive said it once i said it a million times dray needs to be traded to the orlando magic to really settle this, which is also a thing that shd actual happen asap

it wld be good for him too as a person to not have as many great players on his team to gloat over

no

who says no

https://i.imgur.com/xaGJdFc.png

klay was really incredibly impressive in the finals. his defense was crazy. i still think draymond is better.

Draymond Green spoke passionately about this at shootaround this morning. pic.twitter.com/Xxb1zmjJV0

— Kerith Burke (@KerithBurke) October 27, 2017

Here's everything Draymond Green had to say about the Bob McNair comment: Instagram post and shootaround answers pic.twitter.com/iaHYeELUg5

— Anthony Slater (@anthonyVslater) October 27, 2017

odd but perhaps very canny that dray is focused on the "paying my taxes" line of argument, know your audience

yeah def

dray is awesome

"Wow! This sure does sound Donald Sterling-esque!" love this guy

"For starters, let's stop using the word owner and maybe use the word Chairman. To be owned by someone just sets a bad precedent to start. It sets the wrong tone. It gives one the wrong mindset." keep going dray, so close to the logical conclusion of the players coop league

yup

Have definitely felt weird about team "owners" as a phrase

100% makes sense in terms of "owns the business dba Sacramento kings and personally pays salaries" and much less in terms of players

Would be like saying yeah I took a contract programming for google, Larry and Sergei are my owners

Before even getting to the obv racial overtones drays on that

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DNM-lmmVQAAX_nO.jpg

insane picture

also funny cos they got in a fight not long after

lol dray is such a compulsive line crosser, which is fine, but then he complains abt being targeted cmon http://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/10/30/warriors-draymond-green-takes-issue-with-fine-for-fight-with-beal/

i see no lies

i am thinking about getting one of these silly bootleg dray flexing shirts...

http://www.teepublic.com/t-shirt/1464740-draymond-green-and-one?feed_sku=1464740D1V19G79A44C21S

http://www.teepublic.com/t-shirt/1458778-green-defense-two?feed_sku=1458778D1V19G79A44C22S

prefer the AND ONE version

literally heard fitz' voice when i looked at that one

haha

sending one to lagoon for christmas :)

would pitch in

:|

Oh my god how did I forget about this!!! When Draymond scored his first ever NBA field goal he immediately got a technical for taunting. pic.twitter.com/YR2YUFDH76

— GoGSWs (@GoGSWs) August 23, 2018

GOAT

^^^

these chinese klay illustrations are incredible:
https://mir-s3-cdn-cf.behance.net/project_modules/disp/beeb2566680675.5b1eaa7c04c4b.jpg
https://mir-s3-cdn-cf.behance.net/project_modules/disp/12986266680675.5b1eaa7c0404b.jpg
https://mir-s3-cdn-cf.behance.net/project_modules/disp/844f5966680675.5b1eaa7c04621.jpg
https://mir-s3-cdn-cf.behance.net/project_modules/disp/96e2fa66680675.5b1eaa7c05264.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/SCuDVr2.jpg

Klay Thompson is known as “The Electrician” in China, a nickname that – with the backing of his shoe company, Anta – has caught on in recent weeks in a country where the usually mild-mannered All-Star has embraced a different, bathing-in-a-tub-of-gold-sneakers persona. Thompson has begun to embrace the blue-collar moniker, which he earned because of his ability to energize an arena with his timely, titillating shotmaking

Klay Thompson. Not a fan of the ponytail. pic.twitter.com/HJ2w3ajfBy

— Jim Park (@Sheridanblog) November 14, 2018

lol

the tables have turned klay is better now

what IF klay was always better?

he was not but he might be now but he might not be later stay tuned to this space

Klay was always better.

he won the popular vote in a landslide the people have spoken

One of the great Dray stories pic.twitter.com/IQiRNZomZn

— warriorsworld (@warriorsworld) December 6, 2018

hahaha what a psycho i love him

lol then he denounced him

lmao

denounced renounced whatever

You good, Klay? 😂 pic.twitter.com/z3rLfYetGB

— NBA on TNT (@NBAonTNT) December 15, 2018

Omg I died

Draymond Green on his attitude on the court "I realized I had gotten to a point where I was doing more crying than playing. I’m sure it was disgusting to watch because I felt disgusting playing that way." pic.twitter.com/3cTYPT714e

— Chris Montano (@gswchris) May 19, 2019

https://www.instagram.com/p/BzYsSyhAuYe/

As for the thread question, I think GS answered: Klay.

He was jonesing out there tonight

Klay wants in this game so bad pic.twitter.com/LpWX75hrrR

— Warriors on NBCS (@NBCSWarriors) May 22, 2021

They needed him so bad

klay visiting his middle school is sending me oh my pic.twitter.com/ZgJpwNkf7a

— natasha (@thefriscobay) October 26, 2021

lmao

Klay dressed up as Larry Bird for Halloween

Got the handles too 😂 pic.twitter.com/PZxDmPt5yA

— Bleacher Report (@BleacherReport) October 31, 2021

utterly incoherent impression, very klay lol

Moving pretty well imo

Can't get enough of Klay on the court ... he even threw down a dunk at the end 🙌 pic.twitter.com/oqAsvAMNXy

— Warriors on NBCS (@NBCSWarriors) November 4, 2021

wearing full uniform, wants to play

love it. im gonna cry when he checks in for the first time

he ready

Poor Klay. It’s been a tough couple of years.

https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/warriors/recovering-klay-thompson-stays-warriors-bench-after-win-vs-blazers

This story Draymond tells about winning $4,000 from Klay the day after the Splash Bro tore his ACL is incredible 😂 https://t.co/TxFKXrZuQx pic.twitter.com/Lnhjfsfj8M

— Warriors on NBCS (@NBCSWarriors) December 23, 2021

this round to dray

draymond is just the best

Truly

Quin: Dray

Quin Snyder believes Draymond belongs in the MVP conversation for the way he impacts the game pic.twitter.com/PcbGZ05RPM

— Warriors on NBCS (@NBCSWarriors) January 2, 2022

At first I read that as Klay, not Dray and wondered wtf Quin was up to.

he has the look of a man who has seen the future

Pop on Klay's return: "It's another big thrill for the fans. I don't mean just Golden State. The league is about players, it's about talent ... and him being one of the best shooters in the world, and also a hell of a defender, just adds to the aura of their team and to the NBA."

— Nick Friedell (@NickFriedell) January 9, 2022

klay day y'all

Praise be

https://i.imgur.com/dMVvJUt.jpg

the sea was angry that day my friends

Based on today, gotta say Dray.

after 2 long years, we are back klay 🥺pic.twitter.com/BJb89Lx8dN

— ✸ (@seacaptainklay) May 27, 2022

KRAY

kray confirmed

the kray brothers

oh wait

This moment made me laugh out loud. Dray with the most Dray answer possible:

"I didn't learn anything about myself, I been knew I was resilient" _ Draymond Green pic.twitter.com/NZ828ZhvqV

— CJ Fogler AKA Perc70 #BlackLivesMatter (@cjzero) June 17, 2022

He really hasn't changed that much

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsvC8bRQ_T0

perfect answer to a dumb question

Perfect

Klay & Dray pic.twitter.com/pIdXqXVcc4

— Jack Perkins (@purehoop) June 19, 2022

Klay lost his championship hat while boating to the parade 😭pic.twitter.com/8UJ6f5r4sS

— Warriors on NBCS (@NBCSWarriors) June 20, 2022

LMAO KLAY pic.twitter.com/U8XNnaLkER

— Chris Montano (@gswchris) June 20, 2022

careful with those ACLs man

I suspect Klay was using a performance decreasing drug

did he stage losing the champs hat just so he could wear his sailor hat to the parade

hah i think so

Dying.

"Real mature, Draymond"

Steph and Dray were losing it while Klay had the mic 🤣 pic.twitter.com/Ym1h27836u

— Warriors on NBCS (@NBCSWarriors) June 20, 2022

https://sports.yahoo.com/how-draymond-green-cj-mccollum-navigate-the-double-dipping-player-media-dynamic-200541988.html

McCollum, a journalism major, felt a responsibility to inform Green of his Finals prediction in person rather than the forward being surprised to learn McCollum’s position on national television.

Being a bystander amid the conversation, McCollum and Green allowed Yahoo Sports to publish the details of their conversation.

“I’ve got to tell you this. I picked Boston to win Game 3, I picked you guys to win Game 4. But ultimately, I’ve got the Celtics winning the Finals,” McCollum told Green. “I just want you to hear it from me first before you hear me say it on TV.”

Green, without hesitation, responded, “That’s fine. Those Celtics will still be ringless just like you. Respect.”

while I think the basketball part of this question is pretty settled (in favor of dray), klay definitely wins the wkiw battle

Klay just demolished this beer at the Giants-Dodgers game 😂 pic.twitter.com/20e49t3mOM

— NBC Sports Bay Area & CA (@NBCSAuthentic) July 24, 2022

We are the same fr pic.twitter.com/0L2PbqM8iK

— villalobos (@RamonVillalobos) December 16, 2022

Took me way too many takes to understand what actually happened in this shot

Give Dray the max now! 🤣 pic.twitter.com/rUcosSaMCe

— ²³ (@PlayoffDraymond) January 28, 2023

that’s trippy

did we ever figure this one out?

both going through a rough patch

Pretty clear say is the 2nd best player on the team now (when he’s available)

total value the past 10 years not even close imo from outsider perspective

well you like rudy gobert

oh come on man lol

something to think about

I’m sorry who is putting klay over dray when it is all said and done apart from various grudge holding francophones I shallnt hear it

francophobes****

Dray delivers a lot of solid defense, plenty of ugly nut hunting, flops, technical fouls and childish jawing, very competent passing and rebounding, minimal points scored, and frequent suspensions. What you see is what you get. He's disruptive in both the good and bad sense.

i mean we could just review the thread instead of posting the same arguments again but on any team but the steph klay warriors dray wouldve been a huge offensive liability, a pure defensive specialist, granted the best defender around many years, but still he got very lucky if he had spent his career on normal teams he would be thought of radically different than he is now

and thats not even getting into all the extracurricular stuff like recruiting kd

it’s not just that he was a defensive specialist (and it seems worth pointing out, probably one of the 3 most important defenders of his generation), but he was also such an important connector on offense esp in an era where such skills were less commonplace. that’s not to say he didn’t need great offensive teammates to unlock his full potential but contrast that with klay who was more of a straightforward “piece” (tho obv at his best an elite one) rather than a foundational mold-breaking dude

he was a great connector because he played with a guy who was consistently trapped high meaning dray was consistently operating with an advantage, connecting skills in a normal halfcourt set up where everyone is being guarded when a guy (dray) is just no threat to score from anywhere arent that valuable

i invite you to peruse his numbers from the year steph missed, theyre not great

i think it’s true that klay’s game would more easily adapt to different situations… he has prob one of the most complimentary skillsets/playing styles you could imagine

but i’m of the opinion that the steph & dray offensive combo is more so what makes the warriors sui generis than the steph & klay combo. i think you could very easily take the other side of the argument! but i think the chemistry between steph & dray is what makes the warriors offense — i think steph hits all the same individual accolades as a player if draymond ends up on a different team but i don’t think he hits nearly the same team accolades. and i think you could have taken klay off the warriors and maybe found a player who got you to 90% of his contributions, i think it would have been harder to find a replacement for peak draymond, bcuz of how much of his play with steph is just mindmeld type stuff, and how much his defense powered their offense in those years in terms of getting out on the fast break and avalanching teams. maybe you can find another great small ball 5 defender (tho prob not!) but i just buy into the idea that there is something about him & steph that is just him & steph

so in a sense you’re both making correct points. i think in this poll, my understanding of it, i’m voting (i voted?) DRAY

i think dray absolutely fit beautifully with this warriors team, and that does include klay, but i also think you could build a million different great teams of all different configurations around steph, one reason dray really takes steph to the next level with this team is theyve always been short on ball handling and playmaking and dray provides that

of course one of the reasons they were short on ball handling and play making is klay does not dribble or pass

can i say one of the things that annoys me with the canonization of dray is people are always talking about the grabbing and going and say how many teams have a center who can do that, and they say that about a lot of the stuff he does, but dray has spent the great majority of his career playing the four, and the reason for that is he couldnt hold up as a full time center

not that many true 4s doing that either!

its a lot more than centers, i mean no ones saying whos got a four who can do that because then youd have to list a bunch of teams and the point wouldnt really land, which is why they say center

if we're talking about who's more essential to the dubs dynasty i think the answer is dray based on all the otm stuff jordan said a few posts ago.

the original q of this thread was "who is better at basketball" which sounds more like a simmonsy where do they rank in the pantheon kind of thing tho, and to that i can't help but feel like dray's career ended up being his absolute best case scenario, whereas we'll never really know how klay would have developed as a player if he had had to be the guy. not saying the klay we ended up with wasn't the perfect match for his role, but i can imagine his game developing differently and his racking up more individual type accolades if he hadn't playing next to steph, maybe was instead paired with a conventional all star big man like lamarcus aldridge or something

idk i think one of the things that makes the question interesting is klay also benefited from being on the warriors i mean what does a shooter want but open shots, in conclusion the answer to dray vs kay is steph

can't argue with that

i think klay is prob a better basketball player but i also think klay’s skills are very identifiable — quick release, perfect form, ability to shoot at crazy angles, could put it on the floor in his prime. even on defense, what he did — guard the best perimeter player — was very central to the action occupying the eye.

with dray some of his skills are like that, like when he runs the break as a big, his passing, his chemistry with steph would be apparent to even a novice. but a lot of what he does especially on defense is him having a very sharp basketball mind, not rim protection or locking down the no 1 man or whatever. it’s entirely possible he’s the better basketball player than klay

They're both Brock Purdy and Steph is Shanahan. System players.

Come on, they've had individual and team performances that are all time. Dray's game 7 performance in the 2016 finals says everything about him. He's the ultimate team player and when motivated would have been an elite piece on any team. His superpower is his drive and pettiness.

As well as intelligence. The only way he's a "bust" is if some completely incompetent coaching missed his potential.

By bust I mean "average" or an afterthought of a player. As a second rounder, any value is a win.