The Last Dance: In Praise of One Lone Gold Hoop Earring

not gonna lie, i am going to watch this

they just showed rookie mike in '84 wearing what looked like koss portapros. nice!

this is really really good

incredible detail that jordan and danny ainge played golf between games 1 and 2 in the '86 playoffs

playing 18 holes of golf is so physically strenuous, it's insane that they did that

tbh found these first two episodes pretty functional but seeing this level of footage is always wonderful. i didn't realize michael's shot vs georgetown was in the superdome

yeah this was really good

i agree that it's functional but they have so much good stuff to work with that i have no problem with functional

I haven’t watched this yet but I don’t really buy this narrative that the bulls would have kept going if it wasn’t for that evil Jerry Krause

it's gonna be colored by mj's perspective, otherwise he never would've agreed to this thing. but yeah, the krause stuff has always struck me as a bit mean-spirited, and now he can't defend himself.

For one thing, everyone knew a lockout was coming

Pippen reaming Krause out on the bus was very uhhhhh
Bill Wennington is a viking.

Didn’t know about Pip’s considerable family obligations, that explains a lot about him grabbing the first major payday offered.
There is no fucking way Reinsdorf told him he should take a shorter contract.

Krause seemed like a real shithead but Jordan antagonized him in ways that were really counterproductive. Picking Kukoc was maybe the best thing Krause did but because Jerry did it Jordan and Pippen resolved to treat him like shit.

yeah, i am very much looking forward to seeing what the Kukoc episode looks like

Other highlights: Jordan being an absolute dick to Harper, Oak literally slapping Pippen around

Anyways yeah: this is very good and I would've binge watched it all in one sitting if it were available

need to find a way to watch this

pretty convenient for Reinsdorf to have Krause--who can no longer defend himself--as a scapegoat for being a stingy shlub of an owner

it seems like there is two strains to the krause stuff

-- the personal disdain for him that def seemed OTT and petty, tho scottie is perhaps in a different category
-- krause pushing phil out so he could install tim floyd, which put a hard end on the run. nobody seems to have a different narrative other than that it was krause's initiative, tho maybe krause would be able to defend himself. reinsdorf does manage to elide any questions such as "why did you let this man push phil jackson and michael jordan out?"

If the 97-98 Bulls were happening today there would be a large segment of NBA Twitter saying Krause was right to want to blow it up and trade Pippen for future assets and let Jordan walk for cap space.

— Sean Highkin (@highkin) April 20, 2020

i do think this is true and i bet there were even ppl at the time defending it on these grounds. it's not wrong to say that if the phil/MJ/pippen core had continued after they beat the jazz the second time they had max... 2 more years? that would have been pushing into beyond unprecedented territory basically. the end was definitely near one way or another and i agree in hindsight it's easy for there to be more uproar when the fatigue has long since dissipated

I don't know what 1st soured MJ on Krause. Drafting Sellers over some UNC guy he preferred? Anyway, whatever valid beef(s) he did have w Krause was intertwined with idiotic jock vs fat dork bullshit.

you dont break up a championship team nothin more to say about that

like even that drink mavs team that seemed pretty flukey u still dont break it up you play for a second fluke its too hard to climb that mountain again

dirk

even if its def gonna leave u with an over paid old team eventually u still do it for a shot at another ring thats what its all about baby

gotta properly defend the title

i mean i wldve let jordan do whatever he wanted for as long as he wanted fuck it hes michael jordan he earned it and people are gonna show up to watch him regardless

the kobe effect

iirc at the time the headline was just "jordan retiring" like the behind the scenes stuff wasnt widely known

even if its def gonna leave u with an over paid old team eventually u still do it for a shot at another ring thats what its all about baby

otm. It's like ppl have placed more value on "building a championship team" than like actually having a championship team and maintaining it.

hey everyone checkout my new Ferrari isn't it great.
"eh it's gonna break down in a couple years"
hey everyone I've chopped up my Ferrari and sold it for parts so I can hopefully have a chance to put together a brand new Ferrari in a couple years when that old Ferrari would've broken down

cut to 25 years later...

this was great to watch but im so sick of mike vs lebron debates and this has basically made the internet and sports talk more insufferable than normal.

Got to the point where my stance was MJ is my guy but LeBron is undeniably great and I'm not going to say it's wrong to argue he's as good as MJ if not better. But then heard LeBron himself thinks he's now surpassed MJ's legacy and so I'm back to "fuck that dude, MJ wouldn't have lost to Dirk fucking Nowitzki with Wade & Bosh or quit on his team mid-game in a conf finals".

His relationship with general manager Jerry Krause soured because Krause and Chairman Jerry Reinsdorf limited his playing time to seven minutes per half when he finally returned, as not to endanger the franchise’s most valuable asset.

Ok now I remember this always being cited as the start of the MJ/Krause friction. Seems like an odd thing to be THAT upset with someone over. The nerve of this guy, trying to protect the team's superstar and not have him play big minutes in a meaningless season coming back from a major injury! Totally understandable for MJ to then loathe him for eternity amirite.

My earliest MJ memories are of him coming back and having that minutes restriction and it was SO FRUSTRATING as a lil dude who just wanted to see this spectacular basketball man do stuff.

the minutes-restriction thing is another thing that would get totally different coverage these days. imagine explaining "the process" to 22-year-old MJ lol

michael jordan became the dominant athlete of all time because his dad made fun of him for not knowing a lot about tools

— john wilmes (@johnwilmeswords) April 20, 2020

granny, they show the specific "7 minute per half" game that got the bulls into the playoffs where jordan gets sat on the last shot and michael is STILL pissed about it

i found that oakley slapping pippen around sequence, trying to imagine reddick trying this shit on zion
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSNno0nBxMI

rookie or not, no one would have slapped around Wilt

lol there is a slight size difference between jj and zion xp

charles oakley would def slap the shit out of zion in the present day if he felt like he needed to

oak was for real lol

https://nypost.com/2017/01/10/charles-oakleys-legendary-slap-of-charles-barkley-confirmed/

i can't make out who the color guy is in the clip at the bottom of that article but lol at him claiming oak was going for the ball as he did a full wrestling move on barkley

pals

Must see TV tonight — my friend THE #GOAT!!!! #TheLastDance — 9pm EDT on @espn. #jordan #michaeljordan pic.twitter.com/eat4IUtyi4

— Charles Oakley (@CharlesOakley34) April 20, 2020

They did end the minutes restriction as soon as the playoffs started, which is evidence they cared more about the draft pick than protecting MJ's health.

If the 97-98 Bulls were happening today there would be a large segment of NBA Twitter saying Krause was right to want to blow it up and trade Pippen for future assets and let Jordan walk for cap space.
— Sean Highkin (@highkin) April 20, 2020
i do think this is true and i bet there were even ppl at the time defending it on these grounds. it's not wrong to say that if the phil/MJ/pippen core had continued after they beat the jazz the second time they had max... 2 more years? that would have been pushing into beyond unprecedented territory basically. the end was definitely near one way or another and i agree in hindsight it's easy for there to be more uproar when the fatigue has long since dissipated

― J0rdan S., Monday, April 20, 2020 1:47 PM (eight hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

you dont break up a championship team nothin more to say about that

― lag∞n, Monday, April 20, 2020 2:59 PM (seven hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

yeah agree with this. there would be some people defending krause (think about that in hindsight...) but I think history teaches us that it's really hard to climb that ladder from contender to champ, and if you're within sniffing distance you push your chips in.

this is really good btw and it's a legitimate crime against humanity that they're making me wait another week to watch 2 more episodes

this discussion is reminding me that the cavs wouldnt trade kevin love and the draft pick that became collin sexton for paul george lol

iirc at the time the headline was just "jordan retiring" like the behind the scenes stuff wasnt widely known

A painful irony that I think people forget is that Krause and MJ both passed on Pau Gasol and essentially doomed their careers as GMs.

really thought this would have more swearing but perhaps they're saving it for later episodes

yeah it ramps up with each episode. here's a sneak peak of the final episode:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBqdNhY3pf0

one can dream tbh

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EWN6oZ8WoAE80FX?format=jpg&name=900x900

sexi bois

so, uh, eps 3 to 8 leaked

oh???

finally caught up with 1 and 2
soooo good wow

that's cool but i'm perfectly happy to have a plan for sunday night for the next 3 weeks

where can I find it?

T0rr3ntz my friend

damn what is this 2006?

I won't see it til it comes to Netflix in July so please, no spoilers.

Turns out Dennis was the friends we met along the way

the bulls won the title man. congrats

First episode was great. There are all sorts of good Jordan stories coming out with this documentary.

I think the best two I heard that were new to me was John Calipari talking about a game early in his run with the Nets when Kerry Kittles as a rookie went for 15 in the first quarter against the championship Bulls. Jordan kept staring down Coach Cal in the break between quarters holding up a "o" with his hand over his eye. Pretty much they switched off with Jordan on Kittles for the rest of the game and he did not score a point for the remainder of the game.

The other one was that the Portland GM called Bobby Knight for his feelings on Michael Jordan stating they really need a center, Knight said draft Jordan and just play him at center as it did not matter, he was that good.

according to the latest issue of Time, episodes 9 and 10 are still being finished remotely.

yooooo this is great! and the music choices! Partyman for 1989 Jordan! Maestro for 98 Rodman! Jerry Krause doing the running man to Kool Moe Dee!

Contemporary Horace Grant calling the 91 Pistons "straight bitches" had me applauding in my living room.

FYI: if 1 is Jordan and 2 is Pip, 3 is Dennis and 4 is Phil. I expect episode 7 to be jud buechler's time to shine

my takeaway from this is that it takes 30 years before guys are willing to talk shit about each other on the record

jordan's derision for isiah is just awesome

Y’all be tweeting me mad at me like I was tryna hurt Jordan lol

— Isaiah Thomas (@isaiahthomas) April 27, 2020

Horace looks bigger than Malone

Ron Harper's "Fuck this bullshit" about putting Ehlo on MJ for the last shot was hysterical.

ehlo did "force" (i mean its only 3 seconds) him to hit a tuff shot & basically double clutch to get it up

ehlo was a perfectly reasonable choice to defend jordan he was long athletic moved well made jordan make a sick shot etc, harper wldve prob been a fine choice too, trapping him mightve been better all things considered, btw i remember where i was when "the shot" happened, it was at applebees

Bill Simmons: Dennis Rodman is NOT an interesting person. Never has been, never will be.

Also Bill Simmons: Please read my 12,000 world column about the one time me, J-Bug and Sully played the Addams Family slot machine at Vegas and talked about The White Shadow.

— CogginToboggan (@CogginToboggan) April 27, 2020

still made at rodman for saying bird has white privilege lol

*was a silly thing for rodman to say abt someone who just beat his ass but still

Ehlo is fine choice to defend MJ but not if you also have Ron Harper on your roster

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0dllCe-D80

Bird looks...athletic? Quicker than I ever remember him being.

q: how is it that in 1987 Dave Corzine was 22 yrs older than me, I've aged 33 yrs since then, and his 1987 self still looks 22 yrs older than me??

bird was really slowed down by a bad back at the end of his career, he was never a high flyer but he cld move around the basketball court before the injuries set in

was really too bad what shouldve been the second half of his prime became his serious decline

I'm hoping this doc delves into 80s MJ. 90s Bulls in general has been covered to death, & his style of play was a lot more fun to watch when he was young. Feel like ppl who weren't around at the time think of him as post-up fadeaway guy, end of story.

yeah I felt so bad when Larry was having to lie down instead of sit on the bench. Basketball fans were robbed of some good years from him and Magic. Then you got MJ missing 1.75 seasons in his prime...

young jordan was so much better than fade away jordan

granny, we're basically already out of the 80's in the timeline; that's covered in the first two episodes. Episode 4 is the first championship.

I'm writing my Senator!

In college he never stopped moving; catches a pass on the move and either continues his momentum or immediately changes directions and makes a move to the hoop. 1st few years in NBA, he has the ball more at start of possessions, games are longer, pro style is different so he slows down sliiiightly. Then comes Fade Away Jordan, and he hardly ever seems to run apart from transition game.
There's almost no high school footage that I've seen, but I assume he's just a blur out there.

yeah i think the rest will be 90s only. loved the first 4 eps so far, there's been a few nuggets of stuff I havent heard. really fun watching with my wife who knows next to nothing nothing about any of it. the footage is awesome tho, love that quirky peak behind the curtain stuff like that little "the Sniffs" snippet. would be cool if the nba was pushing out the full games/series that are being referenced like the week following the episode release. would love to watch some of these games that they're just glossing over. really tho this is making me itch for more deep dives like this on old teams or bigtime players.

the bad boys 30 for 30 covered a lot of the pistons stuff

for all the very reasonable worries that michael was going to sanitize this, he comes off as a flaming asshole then and now! Lots of gambling references too! Let's see how they handle the first retirement.

jordan is proud of being an asshole dont think he minds it just as long as ppl think hes cool and a winner

in fact he obvs likes it true alpha shit lol

did they cover the conspiracy to ice him out of the allstar game yet ppl on twitter were worried that was getting left out

i don't think they're going to cover that.

outrageous! its such a good subplot

isaiah was a villain lol

the other story they shd include is the businessman who beat him at one on one at his basketball camp for rich people

would love to watch some of these games that they're just glossing over.

everything is on youtube, it's great. I watched game 2 of '92 Finals last night. Lil interview with MJ about his 3pt shooting in game 1, him saying he doesn't like to shoot many 3s cause it "hurts his all around game". Such a different game back then.

yeah thats why its funny to speculate if he would be as great in today game, like yes if he was born in 1993, no if he got in a time machine in 1993

ha exactly

I'm totally ok with any athlete choosing to play until no team will offer than playing time, I think it's some Sports Fan bs to say they should hang it up for any other reason. However, it's crazy that MJ's career scoring avg would be 1.4 ppg higher if he never suited up for the Wizards (all of his other career avgs would be better too).

why did he retire three times such weird decisions

i remember those wizard games as not being embarrassing exactly, just lacking

1st retirement: dad murdered, burnt out on the hoops
2nd retirement: Phil Jackson wasn't gonna be coach, burnt out on the hoopla

he still avg'd over 20ppg but his FG% nose-dived as a Wizard. He def had his moments tho.

had 3 games of 40+ in his final season

when they talked about 1st title, was it mentioned that MJ had more assists than Magic in the Finals?

the narrative is more about how MJ focuses on team rather than personal achievements to get a chip so it's sorta implied. Perhaps unsurprisingly, Magic doesn't get too much playing era screen time in this.

i am now watching episode 1 of the last dance

i'm just a year or two too young to remember v much about pre-title jordan other than he was the best in the world and the pistons kept beating him down so this is going to be fun!

lmao at the lingering shots on the lit cigar in the opening my man okay i will stop liveblogging this

no go for it! it's very joyous

the needledrops in this thing are absolutely perfect

ha im watching too clay, jordan shows up in a corvette, thats not a sports car for the most famous man in the world get a fararri or smth ffs

i was happy they did not linger on the sam bowie thing bc if they had i would have been very angry!!!!!!

lol

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/UO4AAOSw7fhbhyxt/s-l300.jpg

these jerseys were very good why did they ever change it

ha that was in the one of the first shots and i thought oh great this is starting out w me mad about a jersey

and now im agreeing completely w everything jordan is saying about the team/management feud, fucked up movie

jordan's kids shooting hoops with looney toons branded jean jackets tied around the waist is hardcore 90's adolesence shit

when corona is over i'm gonna get a taz tat with the letters MJ in copperplate gothic right above it you guys can hold me to this

its a good idea you cant argue with it

bulls management breaking up that team is one of the craziest things in human history

its transcendently crazy i believe even if they didnt themselves realize it they were seeking a higher plane of consciousness

krause's arrogance and the reinsdorf deference to management was a bad combination

rodman gets all the hype for being a madman but some of the ties mike was wearing in the second run reveal the truly twisted mind here

lmao bill clinton checking on pippen in college is a nice footnote

hah i loved that

https://tribthegame.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/john_paxson.jpg

john paxson has aged into full supervillain form

Lol MJ did have a Ferrari but he signed endorsement deal early on with Chevrolet. I have a signed photo of him in a tux posing by a corvette.

these jerseys were very good why did they ever change it

Agreed! Think I mentioned in ILH that I bought one online to wear to Bulls game when I was in town in Feb. $48, I thought it was a steal.

That iconic shot of him in that jersey doing the cradle rock jam was taken during his very 1st game at MSG. Lemme find the highlights of that game, it's ridic

https://youtu.be/GnAFWxtT5W8

is this show okay for kids? my 11 yo is getting super into basketball

it just has a bunch of cussing, but i think that may only be left in during the initial broadcast. my wife was getting into the doc so we rewatched ep 4 last night on the espn app and it was all bleeped out.

ahh. in the UK it's on Netflix.

i don't mind cussing - but would prefer no n-words or f**gots which were rife in those days iirc

none of that so far

🤘

he still avg'd over 20ppg but his FG% nose-dived as a Wizard. He def had his moments tho.

It really sucks that he didn’t pick Pau, Pau and ancient Jordan would have been so fucking cool

ha im watching too clay, jordan shows up in a corvette, thats not a sports car for the most famous man in the world get a fararri or smth ffs

is this show okay for kids? my 11 yo is getting super into basketball

there are two different versions of each episode with different age ratings (M and 14-L)

i didn't realize that phil jackson was such a cool guy! at least, he seems like a cool guy to me

lol c'mon KARL MALONE. that was phil's whole USP. mr zen. mr goatee. the sensei.

espn2 runs the tv-14 version concurrently with no F or S words but ass-holes and sons of bitches etc.green light. espn airing the regular unedited version.

would love to watch some of these games that they're just glossing over.
everything is on youtube, it's great. I watched game 2 of '92 Finals last night. Lil interview with MJ about his 3pt shooting in game 1, him saying he doesn't like to shoot many 3s cause it "hurts his all around game". Such a different game back then.

― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Monday, April 27, 2020 bookmarkflaglink

oh nice thx. i only really remember the 2nd three peat really well. I got way more into the nba around 93-94

haha wait a minute i just realised KARL MALONE was pulling our legs. sorry for humour fail - that's what i get for ilx0ring and "working" at the same time

sadly, i wasn't! i don't actually know much about basketball. the little i know came from watching nba on nbc all the time in the 90s (which is why i'm watching this doc series), and although i think i understood back then that phil jackson was a relatively free spirit compared to like, pat riley, i didn't understand the extent of it.

not mr zen the ZEN MASTAH

If you wanted to watch some of the 1st 3peat on youtube I'd go with the '93 series vs PHX. MJ and Barkley were phenomenal, and there were some good games. I was down in FL for my cousin's wedding, and game 6 was on the night of the wedding. I figured the newlyweds wouldn't want to watch it, but they invited a bunch of us over to watch in their hotel's lobby. Good lil memory, everyone went nuts when Pax hit shot that sealed it.

what was the playoff game where they basically doubled the jazz's score?

i think it was this one. 54 points in a playoff game!
https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/pbp/199806070CHI.html

Jazz avg'd over 100ppg in conf finals sweep vs Lakers and then didn't crack 90 in a game vs Bulls

Competitive series tho

that last game will of course be the centerpiece of the end of the series. poor jacques vaughn.

I think a lot about how the Jazz got shellacked in that game and just went back to business in the next game. They’d been around so long that they knew one game is one game.

Jerry Sloan was a great coach, feel like ppl have forgotten about him

most wins without a ring right?

don nelson, I think

i desperately hope they got to get contemporary interviews with stockton and malone; i've never heard them talk about that series

oh man that would be excellent

Hey hoopers! I am super into this series. After ep 2 i caught myself like “oh man i hope they don’t trade Pippen”

MJ’s red eyes creep me out
I want to go on a vision quest w Phil Jackson
Carmen Electra is alive and well

I never wanted to see Laimbeer’s psychotic phantom of the opera facemask ever again but welp here I am, drinking the nightmare fuel

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/3a/64/15/3a6415a91bc168b7544758ea950bd464.jpg

WELCOME TO THE HOOPS

:D

have literally not watched basketball *since* the 98 Bulls lol

we are excited to have u back as the prodigal hoops child

i enjoyed this tweet/gif

Bill Laimbeer and Rick Mahorn any time Jordan tried to drive pic.twitter.com/ndyld0Bv7B

— #MambaForever (@QUA150) April 27, 2020

yeah what is up with MJ's eyes. a li'l Visine for my man

anecdotally it's amazing the amount of casual and non fans that are into this doc, quarantine or no

star power, baby

michael jordan was such a phenomenon no one has come close since

it's true. and watching the doc reminds you that it made sense. he can be an asshole and we can make fun of his jeans and whatnot but he's completely magnetic at all times. just one of those people.

for real

He was 6’6” in shoes! Even a corvette is a tight fit
― Matt Armstrong, Tuesday, April 28, 2020 11:00 AM (twelve hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

hes driving a fararri in ep 4 gdamn it! lol

glad you're enjoying it, VG!

heard Ryen Rusillo say something I always bring up when fawning over MJ: dude never for 1 second looked awkward or out of control, and by comparison he made all of the most gifted basketball athletes of his and previous generations look stiff and clumsy (maybe some small guards a la Isiah were somewhat on his level of smoothness). Every generation after him has had that "MJ Starter Pack" of smooth physicality from a young age and so there's verrrry few stiff/awkward players at any level. Obv today's players have taken it to new levels, esp ball handling.

yeah he looked like a different species of human out there

glad to see the chosen one is spreading the gospel of hoops in these times

praise ugly leather jackets

couple notes here 1 its interesting to watch mikes style just get worse and worse over time 2 both him and salley are wearing lil beaded necklaces in their present day interviews is it a thing will gary payton show up with one too

3 mike calling isaiahs bs re pistons walking off the court was a perfect cinema moment

highlight for me so far has been Pippen's gigantic suits

heard Ryen Rusillo say something I always bring up when fawning over MJ: dude never for 1 second looked awkward or out of control, and by comparison he made all of the most gifted basketball athletes of his and previous generations look stiff and clumsy (maybe some small guards a la Isiah were somewhat on his level of smoothness). Every generation after him has had that "MJ Starter Pack" of smooth physicality from a young age and so there's verrrry few stiff/awkward players at any level. Obv today's players have taken it to new levels, esp ball handling.

― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Wednesday, April 29, 2020 12:05 AM (ten hours ago)

yeah I was watching eps 3/4 with my hoops-indifferent gf, who is from LA and knows who magic is, and when the 91 finals footage came on the contrast between MJ's smoothness and magic's relative stiffness was apparent enough that she was all "he moved like that??"

watch mikes style just get worse and worse over time

are we sure there was ever a stylish MJ?
https://twistedsifter.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/michael-jordan-college-dorm-room-1983-umbrella_unc.jpg?w=640

I kid, I kid. Growing up you'd hear a lot about him being a "fashion icon". And on the court, he did bring about the baggy shorts.

man those are some big hands btw

when lebron moves to the basket, he has a lot of the same grace but he's just so much bigger that there's a degree of him using his muscle to get in there. with michael in his prime, his fluidity of motion often looked like a special effect.

I think that's a big part of what makes LeBron special; I can't think of another player at that size who was/is as smooth as him. Predecessors would be Larry Johnson and Derrick Coleman, but it's been soooo long since I've seen those dudes play that I may see them now and be surprised they were more clunky than I remember.

Big Dog Robinson too maybe

Shawn Kemp comes to mind

umbrella mj is stylin in that picture dont hate

seriously!!!!

xp to granny: i guess the thing that sets LeBron apart is that LJ and DC and Big Dog and Kemp were all playing at a super high level for maybe three years, five years tops? LBJ has been consistent for sixteen. That's Karl Malone but with rings + assists.

to anyone who doesn't believe MJ that he didn't partake in the "Traveling Cocaine Circus", I would just show them that pic and rest my case.

plus iirc he listed his fav musician as Anita Baker. As a 20 yr old college student.

oh there's for sure other things that set LeBron apart from those guys. I was just thinking physicality/kinesiology.

thinkin about how stuff like Pippen delaying his surgery so he could enjoy the summer and Rodman taking a 48 hour Vegas trip in the middle of the season would play out on NBA twitter today

even pippen sitting out with a headache

People really don’t understand migraines

I remember around that time I tried playing basketball with a migraine and ended up puking on court

I think that's a big part of what makes LeBron special; I can't think of another player at that size who was/is as smooth as him. Predecessors would be Larry Johnson and Derrick Coleman, but it's been soooo long since I've seen those dudes play that I may see them now and be surprised they were more clunky than I remember.

i agree im just saying hoops twitter would have roasted him for it

Wade had an issue with migraines too right?

migraines are no joke. as they said in the doc, they're bad enough without having to match up against young dennis rodman

this has been fantastic, just thrilling every minute of it

I really enjoyed the Rodman episode, and I'd kind of started to forget the good things about Phil due to his Knicks tenure

but the zen thing, his handling of Rodman is pretty brilliant, just the idea that he is who he is and you can't change it and shouldn't try

it's definitely contrary to the authoritarian mindset of coaching, and yes like Spottie says, First Take and Twitter would be foaming at the mouth today if someone took a Vegas vacation mid season

the only slight comparison is maybe Belichick and Gronk, but I think it's different because it's not so much BB understands what makes people tick it's that he doesn't care and for however long Gronk's positives outweighed the negatives in his mental ledger

also I want Horace Grant to be my friend

horace is funny

appreciated how much respect jordan and pip showed rodman too like they easily cld been all lol that weirdo but they went out of their way to praise him as a tru baller

Horace grant is the true mvp

the man made goggles cool again

Horace grant is the true mvp

Knowing how to play on the same team with MJ, Pippen, and Rodman, and fit in without a hitch is a rare talent itself.

he's lump

Grant left before Rodman came

I never got the criticism of Scottie for the migraine. Yeah I guess ppl thought oh it's just a headache??? puuuusssyyyy

xp -Not quite as talented as I said he was then. ;-)

I never got the criticism of Scottie for the migraine. Yeah I guess ppl thought oh it's just a headache??? puuuusssyyyy

― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Thursday, April 30, 2020 bookmarkflaglink

"mike played through a flu!"

I think of the flu game every time I catch it, still amazed that someone was able to do that in a situation where I can barely get up the stairs

idk I'm guessing the flu hits me harder than guys like say Michael Jordan

it was food poisoning but yeah

appreciated how much respect jordan and pip showed rodman too like they easily cld been all lol that weirdo but they went out of their way to praise him as a tru baller

Rodman was the best. Fucking loved him growing up and regularly leaped horizontally out of bounds to save balls at rec center pick up games.

https://skepticalsports.com/the-case-for-dennis-rodman-guide/

"Dennis Rodman has dominated Rebounding Percentage more than anyone has dominated any major stat."

URLs you know instinctively are true but still make you feel nauseous
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/michael-jordan-once-turned-down-100-million-for-a-two-hour-appearance-agent-says/

misleading. also had to give his name & likeness.

$100 mil to wear clothes that are properly tailored y or n MJ??

you have to also offer him the opportunity to lose $100 million if he misses a golf shot

wonder what the product was michael jordan beans

Rodman was just a force of nature, and everywhere he went the team won. Hakeem destroying Robinson in that one series made people forget that the Spurs won like 63 games that year with Robinson, Rodman and a bunch of absolute trash
― Matt Armstrong, Friday, May 1, 2020 11:15 AM (eight hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

uhhhh they won 62 bc d rob was the mvp, sean elliott had a comeback season averaging 18 ppg on .468/.405/.807, plus avery johnson and vinny del negro each having their best years in their career up to that point. rodman missed almost half the season that year.

Didn't realize there was a thread for this--three episodes in and enjoying it.

I've mentioned my casualness as a fan, so the Jordan-Isaiah stuff--the depth of their animosity--was new to me. (Even yesterday, I saw a current interview where Thomas went out of his way to agitate Jordan.) As I was watching, the not-shaking-hands series in '91 struck me as awful. Thinking about it a few days later, I will say--and this is an irrational, suppressed part of me; I've coached lots of school sports, and always make a big deal out of sportsmanship--I kind of miss that in an era when competitive sports are so fraternal most of the time, the players bound together by their immense wealth. I like reading about when Jackie Robinson and Leo Durocher literally hated each other. (Nothing racial, but as competitors with an unbridgeable divide.) So I do understand the Pistons' motivation for walking off; they'd just been humiliated, and that's a hard switch to turn off for appearances' sake.

Let's go with Isiah instead.

its crazy how much everyone really hated and did not respect the pistons lol isaiah particularly and laimbeer was just loathed seemingly even by his own teammates considering none of them had his back when he wld start shit

they left isiah off the dream team!

Laimbeer seems like such a vile person, like none of the weird humanness and odd charm of Rodman, just a high school bully

watching Lakers/Celtics game 6 of the 85 finals, and to someone's point upthread it's crazy how unathletic all these guys except Worthy are....so stiff

also maaaaan they shoot so many long 2s haha

the 3pt line was only 6 years old!

*at least for guys who didnt play in the aba

my theory as to what really led to 3pt shooting going crazy is kids growing up with the high school line on every court they encountered, you see that shit when youre 8 and youre gonna try and hoist even if you got to chuck it like a football

Laimbeer seems like such a vile person, like none of the weird humanness and odd charm of Rodman, just a high school bully

― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Saturday, May 2, 2020 11:10 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

he was a rich kid even

as a kid i didn't know much about laimbeer except that he was apparently a really mean guy, and also this:

https://i.imgur.com/rObYOFf.jpg

my theory as to what really led to 3pt shooting going crazy is kids growing up with the high school line on every court they encountered, you see that shit when youre 8 and youre gonna try and hoist even if you got to chuck it like a football

― lag∞n, Saturday, May 2, 2020 12:18 PM (fifty-two minutes ago)

I came, I saw, I hoisted

just curious - how do you all feel about lowering the hoop for kids? how high up did you have it as a kid? when did you put it to 10'? or was it always that way?

never had an adjustable hoop remember when i was like five shooting by standing right next to the hoop bringing the ball between my legs then yoinking it up there lol

adjustable prob wldve been good lol, but regulation height and ball shd be fine by the time yr 9 or 10

i think we had it at 9 and then raised it at some point

i dont remember if we played w the kids size ball when i was in the lil ymca leagues, i think maybe not, def played full size hoop, think i started that when i was 8 or 9

Laimbeer enjoyed being loathed; it seemed to be his main goal in playing, even more so than winning the game. He succeeded. The entire league and most of the fans loathed him.

he still loves it:


https://nypost.com/2020/04/28/the-last-dance-bill-laimbeer-escalates-feud-with-whining-bulls/

still going at it bird too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bTsLSN0-68

we're gonna have some rules around this beef house

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bTsLSN0-68

just curious - how do you all feel about lowering the hoop for kids? how high up did you have it as a kid? when did you put it to 10'? or was it always that way?

― let me be your friend on the other end! (Karl Malone), Saturday, May 2, 2020 12:23 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

my son has been playing organized hoops since he was 4 or so. the 2-5 league is just for giggles, hoop was 7.5-8' and they played with the mini ball. w few exceptions, you needed kindergarteners on your team or else you had no chance of hitting shots. this made defense v v important, tho kids at that age dont have the abstract idea of "someone else besides the ballhandler might get the ball later and i should not just pay attention to the one with the ball."

he's in the 6-7 league now which is still 7.5-8' but a larger ball. they move up to a 10' hoop in the 8-9 age group.

I feel lagoon never got to experience feeling cool and awesome dunking on a 7 ft hoop

ha they were def around in fact my school often had lowered hoops in da gym just never had one myskelf

+ i did have the ultimate dunk xperince.....nerf hoop bitches

i have dunked on the child's rim, it was Good

coincidentally ive been shooting around on an adjustable portable unit that is totally trashed from youths dunking on it

i live in London so.. no basketball close by but my kids do have the classic toy-backboard-hanging-from-a-door setup. i don't know how it's not broken yet.

u need to start a movement for public courts there so yr and all kids can grow up right

plenty of public hoops in Paris, time to head south

/no rona

paris knows whats up

For awhile this guy was coming to my open gym who had grown up with Laimbeer. Played little league together. He said he was a good dude, guessed that he adopted the Asshole persona as a coping mechanism for being a target on the court (ie rich white guy) and just went down that rabbit hole.

Laimbeer went to Notre Dame. He's just like every other person I've met that went there.

The only cool thing Bill Laimbeer did in his life was play a Sleestak on Land of the Lost when he was a kid.

Bill Laimbeer and Ferguson from Clarissa Explains It All are just like every other person I've met that went there.

is there something bad i don't know about laimbeer's lengthy and championship winning run as a coach in the wnba?

I will be happy to accept my place as a Bill Laimbeer of ILX

fred is the laimbeer of ILX

well really I just mean GO IRISH

>:[

blue & gold to the bone, baby

actually I hate bill laimbeer too, we're not *all* like that

there"s a place called "barnaby"s beef bar" near campus where we discuss who we"re beefin" with. rn i"m beefin" with apostrophes.

beef bar, pizza kitchen

didn't I say once on ilx that I called Barnaby's once to ask what a beef bar is, like, was it a buffet that served beef, and they didn't understand the question, and I kept trying to clarify, and they just couldn't answer

well I pledge to you all not to do that on ilx

actually I hate bill laimbeer too, we're not *all* like that

― Joey Corona (Euler), Sunday, May 3, 2020 9:21 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

it’s true, most notre dame athletes are not nearly as successful as laimbeer

fuck

that's a beefy chili or a chilly beef. either way, i've lost my picnic spirit.

actually excited to see new eps tonight!

yeah thank God for this show

actually I hate bill laimbeer too, we're not *all* like that

― Joey Corona (Euler), Sunday, May 3, 2020 9:21 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

it’s true, most notre dame athletes are not nearly as successful as laimbeer

― sleight return (voodoo chili), Sunday, May 3, 2020 10:54 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

lmao

the only ND alum i know was the academic dean of the HS i teach at, shes cool

notre dame more like notre lame lol faced

french for "our lame"

more spin than rod strickland

buncha hunchbacks

christian laettner trending in anticipation of dream team ep tonight, cannot wait to watch behind the scenes shootarounds with these guys

only laettner could steal the hatred away from laimbeer

Laettner & Laimbeer join together to form the most evil Voltron in basketball

Please don’t compare Laettner to laimbeer. Laettner was an arrogant guy who didn’t mind people thinking he was gay, which is a cool combo. Laimbeer was a criminal essentially

a criminal champion

agree that laettner didnt deserve the hate except that he did choose to play for duke so he kinda did

he went from college superstar to nba role player and didnt seem to mind

he did start to do some drugs about it

laettner was a #3 draft pick, but he was never good enough to justify going that high. if he had insisted on being paid like an nba star he would have ended up playing somewhere in Europe, because he was only suited to be a role player and the league knew that after two or three seasons of trying to elevate him to a star.

i completely forgot laettner got suspended for weed late in his career
anytime i think of that guy i think of him sticking his tongue out at the crowd and throwing up devil horns; how come i can't readily find a gif of that

I don't like Laetner but he was better than a role player. That 1992 draft class was 2 hall of famers and a handful of regular contributors, including Laetner. Maybe he wouldn't be #3 in a re-do, but he's in the top 5 or 6 in that class. He's just not a player you build a team around.

no yr right he was solid

laettner def hotter

Always assumed that was big reason he was hated

read an interview w him where he didnt come off like he had some big ego or smth he said he always embraced the scrappy side of life

finally watching this. is the story that this footage was just sitting around for 20 years??

how does magic look EXACTLY THE SAME????

99.99999% of people who play basketball aren't good enough to be NBA role players, Laettner wasn't that bad

but EZ otm he was resented for being cocky like a star and drafted 3 but only being a role player

the 30 for 30 on him is good. funny always assumed he was a rich kid but he was working class

also he was drafted by the timberwolves which is a good way to ruin your career

laettner was a great troll. i think there's a lot of ways he could have had a better career. just got unlucky.

timberwolves first round picks being busts is the ultimate nature vs nurture debate

anything is possible

yeah, Laettner might yet surprise us

there was really no way jordan wasnt good enough to make his high school team ever right i mean some coach just hated him or something

I dunno. jordan growing half a foot and growing his game exponentially every offseason is a theme.

at some point his dad mocked him about not knowing how to use a jigsaw, so he grew himself and began dunking.

its doesnt matter hes still good enough to make a high school team

maybe he asked to run more lines at the end of practice to make the team better and everyone hated him

idk if anyones heard that story in more detail ive only ever seen it like how it was in the doc michael didnt make the team and was sad for one day but then after that he was determined and became amazing at basketball, like who made the team ahead of him what was the whole deal how good was he then

the timeline is weird like he didnt make the sophmore team, and then at some point between then and college north carolina came to the conclusion he was the best player in high school basketball, what was the interval between not making the team and being the best in the whole damn country, i mean i get that he grew but six one is plenty tall enough to play high school basketball, theres are tons of 6-1 guys in the pros

i don't remember the specifics well enough but i did read roland lazenby's michael book and the vibe was definitely that he was never some sort of incredible prospect but more someone who gradually built his game over time.

i'll try to skim it soon and see if there are some good details.

im calling bullshit i think there was a coverup something weird happened

you tell its not a real jordan story cause he doesnt talk about someone he has generated an intense petty resentment for, like hes mad at his dad for shit talking him abt his poor handyman skills, hes mat at clyde drexler for just existing, but theres no one hes mad at for getting snubbed from his hs team

He made hs team. Just was the last cut for varsity as a sophomore.

He played in small city in NC. Wasn't recruited outside of NC really. Didn't get invited to all tge elite national camps. Then when he finally did get invited to one of the most prestigious camps he balled out and basically overnight became a top prospect.

He played in small city in NC. Wasn't recruited outside of NC really. Didn't get invited to all tge elite national camps.

all of this points to that his hs team was prob not that hard to make! why didnt he make it

i mean it was prob something dumb like there were upperclassmen the coach just liked and felt loyal too ahead of him, but still its a reason, i mean no one ever even really tries to say he wasnt good enough to make the team they just say he didnt make it

Jordan's HS coach could have had a fetish for seniors and a poor sense of his players' potentials. Or he could have hated MJ's style as not old-school enough. Or he could have been blind and daft. Or racist. You never know the whole story on this stuff.

it's 100% the small southern town deference to upperclassman thing and i've always assumed as much

cldnt even find one spot for ol mikey jordan, shameful

“do you have a gambling problem?”

“nooooo” - man in sunglasses indoors pic.twitter.com/uMf9w9CkrV

— mike taddow (@taddmike) May 4, 2020

this big city slicker lagoon will ask why holding hands meant something baby next

well...

whatre the chances jordan was the best player trying out for the team the year he didnt make it its like 99%

im tired so tired of success wins marketing

like no one is trying to say jordan didnt work extremely hard to be the best but i feel like trying to shoehorn another overcoming adversity struggle into making the high school team is just browbeating us

Deference to upper classmen yes, and the dude who made the team instead of him was 6"8"

I think it's misleading to say he didn't make the team. Didn't make varsity as underclassman.

idk if anyones heard that story in more detail ive only ever seen it like how it was in the doc michael didnt make the team and was sad for one day but then after that he was determined and became amazing at basketball, like who made the team ahead of him what was the whole deal how good was he then

― lag∞n, Sunday, May 3, 2020 9:58 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

you tell its not a real jordan story cause he doesnt talk about someone he has generated an intense petty resentment for, like hes mad at his dad for shit talking him abt his poor handyman skills, hes mat at clyde drexler for just existing, but theres no one hes mad at for getting snubbed from his hs team

― lag∞n, Sunday, May 3, 2020 10:17 PM (forty-six minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

the guy who beat him out for the (varsity) team was this guy (jordan played JV that year) and actually the legend goes jordan would “envision him” during workouts and later check into hotels under the name “leroy smith”!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvest_Smith

theres no "guy" who beat him out you guys a basketball team has 12 spots! wake up sheeple!

He was always pretty good friends with Leroy Smith. Don't think there was animosity there.

ha ok so it literally was just some coach who only picked upperclassmen

Smith and Michael Jordan were childhood friends who played together on their ninth-grade basketball squad. In 1978, during their second year at Emsley A. Laney High School, both tried out for the lone sophomore opening on the varsity basketball team.

and yet

In 1991, Jordan acknowledged the impact of the event, "It all started when Coach Herring cut me. What it did was instill some values in me. It was a lesson to me to dig within myself."

the coach was dumb doesnt have the same ring there is no life lesson

In 1991 Jordan knew what to say when talking to interviewers.

jordan is very good at knowing what to say i give him credit he is a very smooth individual at basketball and handling the media

and having excellent sneakers

was thinking abt how jordans have been the premiere sneaker basically since they launched, pretty wild

Man the moment after winning the first threepeat where they’re mic-ing him up and he sorta exhaustedly asks “can i just have a few minutes here?”

and, of course, michael shittalking kobe at the all-star game

in loving memory

if they had footage of MJ betting on two flies crawling up a wall i would not bat an eyelid

idk if anyones heard that story in more detail ive only ever seen it like how it was in the doc michael didnt make the team and was sad for one day but then after that he was determined and became amazing at basketball, like who made the team ahead of him what was the whole deal how good was he then

― lag∞n, Sunday, May 3, 2020 8:58 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

the timeline is weird like he didnt make the sophmore team, and then at some point between then and college north carolina came to the conclusion he was the best player in high school basketball, what was the interval between not making the team and being the best in the whole damn country, i mean i get that he grew but six one is plenty tall enough to play high school basketball, theres are tons of 6-1 guys in the pros

― lag∞n, Sunday, May 3, 2020 9:03 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

i don't remember the specifics well enough but i did read roland lazenby's michael book and the vibe was definitely that he was never some sort of incredible prospect but more someone who gradually built his game over time.

i'll try to skim it soon and see if there are some good details.

― call all destroyer, Sunday, May 3, 2020 9:12 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

im calling bullshit i think there was a coverup something weird happened

― lag∞n, Sunday, May 3, 2020 9:13 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

skipping to the end of the thread, i don't care what else happened, but this is right.

i read the rest of the thread, don't see anything that says it wasn't a conspiracy

add me to the list of ilxors wondering what is up with MJ's red-ass eyes

ok serioulsy what is going one with that security guy flipping coins w MJ?

is that a real person? He looks like a Safdie bros walk-on. Hoping he gets his own episode because...wow

love that guy! he was on an earlier episode but him miming the MG shrug was the best

that hair tho

the whole thing—the hair the shoes the tie the accent

I want a spinoff doc

https://www.dignitymemorial.com/obituaries/oak-lawn-il/john-wozniak-9005145

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EXLqer5U8AAGnzb?format=jpg&name=small

oh shit.

shit!

i forgot about this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zugK5Tf4vJ8

This may be the best part of “The Last Dance” so far. Perm guy breaking out the Jordan shrug after beating him in quarters gambling. pic.twitter.com/FuukklLyIG

— Clay Travis (@ClayTravis) May 4, 2020

^ for posterity

like to think that by year 3 jerry krause was calculating early in the season which teams the bulls were likely to face in the play offs and lavishing praise on a select couple of their players just so michael would eviscerate them.

the level of that vindictiveness was kinda frightening. I mean, i get it (sort of) but holy shit

not only burn the bridge but set fire to the river

It is kinda frightening. and I'm still lol-ing at "mad at Drexler just for existing"; it was moreso mad at media for having the nerve to compare Clyde to MJ, but still. But to compare the 2 for a sec here, I can't help but see how Drexler NOT being a psycho dickhead "competitor" hampered him. I don't think he had the full skillset like MJ had but more than that, he seemed too nice and unassuming to compete head to head with MJ.

Clyde wanted the W, loved the game, had sweet skills, but he never wanted to tear your beating heart out of your chest and hold it in front of your dying eyes, as MJ so often wished to do.

jordan is very good at knowing what to say i give him credit he is a very smooth individual at basketball and handling the media

― lag∞n, Sunday, May 3, 2020 11:34 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

this has been 1 of my takeaways too honestly

the great thing about this SNES game is that forensic analytics show that one ever played as the blazers. 100.0% of SNES players chose to play as the bulls

https://i.imgur.com/msuf76Z.jpg

jordan is very good at knowing what to say i give him credit he is a very smooth individual at basketball and handling the media

― lag∞n, Sunday, May 3, 2020 11:34 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

this has been 1 of my takeaways too honestly

― johnny crunch, Monday, May 4, 2020 2:39 PM (twelve minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Seemed p comfortable talking to random kids with terminal illness/Jerry Seinfeld (who did not seem comfortable but rather extremely starstruck) too.

I guess what's getting the short shrift is his intelligence. Yes he was supremely gifted physically and had the psycho competitiveness, but it's his intelligence that allowed him to apply those 2 to maximum effect.

Yeah Jordan really seens to have made it his job to be as good at being a mega worldwide celebrity as being an athlete

obviously early he had good guidance from his mom keeping him in that lane (ie Nike meeting) which is really something you cant underrate the value of, given hardheaded young stars often don’t have, don’t ask for or don’t heed that kind of guidance. he was able to fight off the immature “i hate all this shit i just want to play” for a lot of his career pre first retirement

it’s really impressive

and granny otm

yeah obvs an astute and engaged guy and def managed to do it his way despite everyone wanting a piece of him

i do think a lot of his way was dullard a-dog mythologizing bullshit that business school guys love but a lot of that is really pushed more by tedious sportswriters than by jordan himself, and obvs he was one of the best athletes ever and somehow even more entertaining than he shouldve been had cool sneakers and radiated charisma

the gambling i find really interesting troubling

untangling his ideas about gambling addiction, say

like you don’t have to be putting up your house as collateral or depriving your family of food to be addicted. there’s such a thing as a functioning addict

and being addicted to competing feeds the gambling.

like, dude: if you can’t compete with financial stakes to get off, you MAY have a gambling addiction

*without financial stakes

calling kobe that little guy from the lakers lmao dude he literally modeled his entire existence off of you and your success wins system have some compassion

if you are rolling to Atlantic City the night before a playoff and you are using high-stakes gambling as a means to ~calm down~

... you MAY have a gambling addiction

its just betting a few hundo thou to take the edge off

#hoooboy

seems like a person with just an extremely high energy level and a lot of his life was figuring out how to channel it

Woz hustled the absolute hell out of Jordan in the third game, he got MJ to agree to book an even money payout when Jordan was nearly a 10:1 underdog.

Jordan went out to the court minutes later and beat the Celtics by 23.https://t.co/pTNnGtEq0a pic.twitter.com/aOt3mS4Y9R

— Rob Perez (@WorldWideWob) May 4, 2020

as an anti-gambler, I'd say he def had/has gambling addiction

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EXLjQnWU4AEBg_G?format=jpg&name=small

like you don’t have to be putting up your house as collateral or depriving your family of food to be addicted. there’s such a thing as a functioning addict

one good way to be a functioning gambling addict is to have so much fucking money it's hard to blow it all

exactly!!

I can't help but see how Drexler NOT being a psycho dickhead "competitor" hampered him.

Michael was this weird blend of mental illness, astonishing physical prowess, intelligence, creativity and basketball skill that rendered him pretty much inarguably that much better than Drexler and, on any given night, better defensively and offensively than anyone on the court. The only other modern era player I thought came close to Michael's skillset and approach was Kobe. Which is not to say that, say, LeBron or Steph are "worse" than MJ; they just were playing a different game with different bodies in a different league.

MJ’s red eyes creep me out

― terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, April 28, 2020 10:19 PM (six days ago) bookmarkflaglink

I feel like they are *yellow*—how does that happen?

He has not aged well.

If he had been a sociopath on top of that, it wasn't going to elevate his game to MJs level!

coulda got him closer to it

but agree to disagree on this one I guess

he was p bad in 92 Finals

shouldn't say he was bad. Just pretty blah. Never exerted his will. Just a meek dude.

i always thought of Drexler's game as "elegant"

Clyde the Glide is an all time nickname

guess you'd have to also say sociopathy didn't give MJ an edge either then

xxpost horseshoe

yeah the whites of his eyes are def yellow!, but his irises look red

either way, not colors recommended for eyes

His bristly, sparse soul patch also not a good look

xp i guess the thing is that MJs sociopathy clearly did give him an edge but i see that as part and parcel of his approach to the game and it's not transferrable as a bonus. Like I wouldn't argue that Michael would've been that much more dominant if he had been a seven footer.
#80sbabythoughts

Tbf to 90s Jordan, in one of the clips from the last ep, Scottie Pippen also had a lone gold hoop earring. Looks worse on MJ, though, maybe bc he’s bald?

Is there a thread on ILH to explain why everyone hates Isiah Thomas?

start one!!!! also hi horseshoe!!!!!!!

hi m bise!!!

doug collins: “when i was coaching michael, he became the league mvp, the all-star game mvp, and defensive player of the year. now that’s greatness.”

are you talking about mj there, doug? or...

Is there a thread on ILH to explain why everyone hates Isiah Thomas?

― horseshoe, Monday, May 4, 2020 6:12 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

there are a lot of assholes in the nba but i think what sets isiah apart is hes the smarmiest person in the world, hes just fake as fuck and ppl dont like that, and then also players hated the pistons cause they played too rough and isiah was the pistons best player, is how i break it down to an extent

ty!

im sure there are also particular stories of shit he did u cld track down, if u do post them here thx

it bothers me that Isiah has a similar speaking voice to Smokey Robinson. I wish his voice was more jerk-sounding.

also there's that whole sexual harassment thing

i wish he were less handsome

yeah i mean hes exactly the type of guy to talk a corrupt billionare into hiring him then oversea a hellish work environment all the while acting like his shit doesnt stink

horseshoe otm

eveything about him is infuriating, gross or weird or all three

im sorry he had to be so attractive my thoughts are with you in these difficult times

ty

i hated him and respected him because he was the celtics' nemesis for awhile, along with reggie miller

i was only a casual basketball fan at the time - i watched the playoffs when the celtics were in it - but that was probably the peak of my fandom until the ewing-era knicks/heat rivalry, so it's been pretty amazing to hear the details behind what i only saw the outside of at the time, in passing

laettner was a #3 draft pick, but he was never good enough to justify going that high. if he had insisted on being paid like an nba star he would have ended up playing somewhere in Europe, because he was only suited to be a role player and the league knew that after two or three seasons of trying to elevate him to a star.

Drafted by one of the worst organizations in the history of the league, settled into being a pretty good starter/sixth man, a lot worse can happen at the number 3 pick

lol this allstar game footage all these alltime great and then antoine walker and vin baker

i love how there's always a couple losers on the all-star teams but the late 90s/early aughts were the zenith of the phenomenon

actually i guess there's so hq talent these days that we haven't had a true wtf guy like dale davis or whatever making a squad in a few years

loosening the positional requirements helped too

ok so i did just flip through the chapter in lazenby's book on jordan not making varsity as a sophomore. here's the quick version:

- the team was returning 11 seniors and 3 juniors
- 8 of the returning upperclassmen were guards
- jordan was 5'10" at the time, and the sophomore who made the team was 6'6"
- "he couldn't beat any of the upperclassmen 1 on 1 until the end of his sophomore year"
- sadly, the varsity coach was out of coaching 3 years after jordan graduated due to the onset of schizophrenia

Been thinking bout him since i first saw him. In the movie over the course of the season MJ gets into him for over 50k - this guy needed 50k he promised for his daughter and her husband for a mortgage payment. He won’t take MJ up on another bet. MJ SHOWS UP AT HIS HOUSE.

— SAFDIE (@JOSH_BENNY) May 4, 2020

omg I called it

haa

i just watched the ep and the dude is fucking around with his gun while michael is pitching quarters

https://i.imgur.com/KCE7JzL.png

I’ll keep watching this but kinda feel ESPN buried the lede here

love how there were at least four different pronunciations of kukoc in the first episode

Lol. I think Barkley STILL calls Dirk "No-wit-ski".

man how cool would it to be buds with john salley. just seems like the coolest, most thoughtful dude.

it feels churlish to complain about anything amid the incredible bounty of this series but the structure gives me whiplash. i get that it's a complex thing they're trying to pull off - the spine is the footage from 97/98, and they have to set up all the stories including key milestones in the team's progress. but sometimes i'm like, wait rodman's a piston again?? fuck

same

yah even as a diehard its a little hard to follow especially as the past clips get closer and closer to the 97-98 season

i really like the digressive style i think theyre doing a good job of keeping it interesting

they also show a graphic every time they jump around

i noticed that :) yeah it definitely keeps you guessing

man, today's jordan. the gap between what he was then and now. he's capable of a lot of nuanced reflection now - he has a kind of humanity that i never really credited him with. savvy, yes, humanity, no. and he looks like a sack of crap. you look at wennington, salley, pippen - they look great. they look alive. the gap with what jordan was - superhuman, alive to everything - and today is like.... fuck. feels like there's some layers of narcotization back there in the storeroom of his post-career life that he's somehow made his peace with or intermittently climbs his way out of.

yeah

when he said if he could change one think itd be to not have been a role model there was a lot there

i never thought i’d look at jordan and feel... pity?

he looks pretty normal to me minus the eyes. i think being an owner of one of the worst hoops franchises and not being able to figure it out eats at him every day tho.

i remember this article having some good inside nuggets:
http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/page/Michael-Jordan/michael-jordan-not-left-building

i agree w tracer that he seems sad and like he does booze and pills but its not like hes unraveling it just is what it is

Back in the office after his vacation on a 154-foot rented yacht named Mister Terrible

beautiful phrase

dark musings!

"I … I always thought I would die young," he says, leaning up to rap his knuckles on the rich, dark wood of his desk.

was listening to some pod recently and they advanced the idea that as an owner having so little control over outcomes would be driving him totally insane if he didn't detach in a pretty severe way.

to me he seems pretty normal among people who peaked early. they usually know when they don't have a second act. so he plays 36 holes of golf every day and hangs out with a family he seems to at least kind of like. it could be worse.

The Harvey Gantt stuff in E5 was really interesting. I'm familiar with the Jordan quote but didn't know it was connected to a specific political campaign.

Felt bad for Kukoc for being thrown into that impossible situation in the Olympics--here, go pitch to Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig; I got them nice and angry ahead of time for you--so was glad he made a good showing second time around.

he's capable of a lot of nuanced reflection now

That's the best thing about this. He wiggled a bit talking about Gantt, but for the most part, I never feel like he's shaping his responses. The things that drove him then still do--loved the Clyde Drexler showdown, the way he's able to speak respectfully about Drexler but still make it clear it was a mismatch.

it's fun to watch the glass of whiskey next to him go up and down

yeah, i imagine the quantum state of that tumbler is impacting the nature of this doc quite a bit

i saw somewhere that it's extra anejo tequila which is appropriately gauche

lol that is definitely a hard liquor flex

Lol. I think Barkley STILL calls Dirk "No-wit-ski".

Cause he's chill af or is that actually a widely accepted variant?

Like how Olajuwon let 10 years go by before going um actually it's Hakeem not Akeem

Charles Barkley was great in E5. Disappointed to read Jordan's feuding with him, too--1000% with Barkley there.

i can't stop thinking about a guns and roses doc made exactly like this with a fat old axl sitting there settling scores and getting embarrassed by old footage and pointedly not touching a tumbler full of whiskey and al gore talking about how he had to sneak his listening on a walkman while tipper was in another room

lol hell yes

i want to hear axl reveal all about his feud with mnuchin

did mnuchin walk out of the conference room without shaking hands?

yes!

i didn't expect that to be resolved so quickly, but it makes sense!

oh lol my YES was for the idea of the axl doc series

I'm the biggest MJ fan on ILH but yeah I'm with Barkley on that too. You'd hope that MJ would hear Barkley's recent comments about their falling out and extend a hand to Barkley, but I'm not holding my breath.

i was just reading about it this morning. that sucks :(

i imagine it’s not uncommon though? switching from sport to commentary & being called on to give some hard opinions about friends & fellow teammates etc. maybe moreso for barkley bc he never pulled his punches anyway

i am okay with anybody in the entire world not being friends with charles barkley; he seems like he would get infuriating quickly

Barkley's words are more hurtful than he seems to realize. He focuses on how he said the people around Jordan are bad and not Jordan specifically. But in doing that, he's painting a picture of MJ as a clueless dupe. It's the sort of criticism that probably causes more turmoil and second-guessing within the org than just saying "Jordan made this or that terrible pick/decision, and they need to recover from that."

ultimately, Barkley is either right or wrong about it. if he's right, i'm probably on his side. but if he was trying to craft a middle ground soundbyte that allowed him to do his job and not hurt his friend, I think he failed.

where is the info re barkley feud

https://youtu.be/vGAY_pKRelQ

I read Chuck's autobio 10 yrs or so ago and he came off WAY differently than he does on TV. I'm guessing he's much different person than most ppl judge him to be.

the golf swing hitch is an affectation

guys don’t make me tell my Charles Barkley was a dick to me where I was a teenager story on here for like the fifth time, but yeah in sum chuck is an actual insensitive dick

https://youtu.be/vGAY_pKRelQ

― Morton Koopa Jr. Sings Elvis (Sufjan Grafton), Thursday, May 7, 2020 4:13 PM (fifty-eight minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

lol i actually love this

Was trying to let MJ off the hook for being a dick by thinking he just got worn down by the constant scrutiny and infamy, that he developed it as a defense mechanism. But then there's that story from that great long article several years back (I'm blanking on the author. I can picture him. Name starts with W?) about him on a commercial shoot early in his career where he put his finger into every donut in a box just so the crew wouldn't have any, because they didn't deserve HIS donuts.

ok it's Wright Thompson and I mangled that anecdote:

"Back when they used to shoot a lot of commercials, Jordan's security team would wait for him in his trailer while he was on set. A woman named Linda cooked Michael's meals, and he loved cinnamon rolls. She'd bake a tray and bring it to him. When it came time to film, he'd see the guards eyeing the cinnamon rolls and he'd walk over and spit on each one, to make sure nobody took his food."

idk i wouldnt really want to eat food that i spit on

that's why you have no 'chips

damn was wondering why at least now i know

goon has got zero #MambaMentality

fuck its true

i posted that wright thompson article a couple days back. was pretty eye opening for me when i read it as i never really followed MJ the person before.

he'd see the guards eyeing the cinnamon rolls and he'd walk over and spit on each one

just an alpha dog marking his territory

I think it was eye-opening for most ppl. He's so guarded, there wasn't that sort of behind-the-curtains look at him before afaik.

cinnamon rolls are for NBA game CLOSERS

where is the info re barkley feud

This is the piece I came across:

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29140010/charles-barkley-see-long-riff-michael-jordan-ending

Barkley's been one of my favourite interviews for years, even only as a casual basketball fan. I thought he was very eloquent in the documentary, saying that for the first time in that final series he had to accept that there was a player better than he was (after a game where he played great and it still wasn't enough).

I find his love for the humble homemade cinnamon roll a bit charming. Probably made Linda feel good anyway.

cinnamon rolls are good

This article gave me a lot of goodwill towards Barkley, well worth a read

https://amp.wbur.org/onlyagame/2018/12/14/lin-wang-charles-barkley

Just realized why I misrembered that anecdote. My friend once brought me donuts at work and stuck her finger in one just as a gag lol.

Jordan in that Phoenix series might have been the peak Jordan.

Has anyone watched the Rodman 30 for 30?
I started it but it seemed v corny so i bailed.

it was okay! covers a lot of the same ground but is clearly filtered through Dennis' sensibilities and focuses more on the life after basketball than during.

ok serioulsy what is going one with that security guy flipping coins w MJ?

is that a real person? He looks like a Safdie bros walk-on. Hoping he gets his own episode because...wow

― Yanni Xenakis (Hadrian VIII), lundi 4 mai 2020 14:22 (five days ago) bookmarkflaglink

Eheh, that was such a great moment.
I also like the idea of MJ listening to W. Houston's first album on repeat... so gangsta !

https://youtu.be/42OzpZB0bqA

5 hours of MJ highlights in sequential order

ah, that's fun!

yeah I appreciate seeing all the white dudes with perms (80s Doug Collins, auerbach, security dude)

albeck

Something I didn’t appreciate at the time was how much of Jordan’s greatness is ballhandling. None of the other guys in the greatest shooting guard discussion had handles like that. It was like trying to guard a 6’6” Iverson.

Isn't Steph in the greatest shooting guard discussion? Because his handles are as amazing as his shooting stats.

he’s a point guard

yes, but in a league where distinctions like these are increasingly irrelevant

michael broke a few ankles

Two more eps tonight!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkJOBlWvxVA

I was watching this highlight reel of Jordan's All-Star appearances yesterday. 1) It wasn't quite the hands-off shooting practice 20-25 years ago that it is today--the 2003 game-winner was very contested; 2) two or three of his most spectacular plays were feeds from Isiah Thomas.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G89qHy8vcac

yeah I caught a replay of the 98 all star game last week and those dudes were balling from the opening tip

Scouting report early on for MJ was he can't dribble with his left, so force him that way. But his 1st step was so insanely quick that it didn't matter, he'd still blow by elite defenders going right.

The 2003 all star game feels like 7 years ago to me

re: mike’s handles and that first step it’s really insane, there are so many highlights where he’s got his back to the basket and there’s like 3 or 4 guys on him and all the sudden he’s at the rim

pic.twitter.com/2C1QE5TJOR

— Htims R.J. (@mike_jonsey) May 11, 2020

jordan saying he was planning on retiring before his dad died

omg, the payton video is just so violent
did i see r kelly guarding dennis on the space jam pickup court?

mj cldnt hit the breaking ball had to go back to hoop very sad

the basketball rarely curves

based on hundreds of hanes commercials, i feel comfortable saying michael is a terrible actor which makes the moment where he tears up about being considered a bad teammate kinda wow

"Way to go Craig"

MJs personal life except for his dad appears to be completely off limits. I think his kids have shown up three times? the only mention of him being married is when a team employee asks if he wants to call his wife after winning a championship and he seems kinda like "oh yeah, i guess i have to do that"

he seems to cry quite easily these days

the only mention of him being married is when a team employee asks if he wants to call his wife after winning a championship and he seems kinda like "oh yeah, i guess i have to do that"

yeah, i was like... what??

you know what else seems to be off-limits? any breakdown of his actual skills whatsoever! i would love to understand more. for instance, moves like 'the smitty' are almost invisible to the naked eye when performed in real time - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpJ3RARZrzE - i would have loved to hear defenders talk about what made MJ so hard to beat.

he seems to cry quite easily these days

he really does seem to have always just finished up a real intense sob sesh

Like a thousand people have asked me about Jordan’s eyes. He’s not jaundiced. He has racial melanosis of the conjunctiva. Benign, flat patches of pigment around the edge of the cornea. Extremely common in darkly pigmented individuals, more prominent with age #TheLastDance pic.twitter.com/nQjGLZNW83

— Dr. Glaucomflecken (@DGlaucomflecken) May 11, 2020

you know what else seems to be off-limits? any breakdown of his actual skills whatsoever!

― Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Monday, May 11, 2020 10:26 AM (two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

yeah wld be cool for sure, does not seem to be this doc tho

Dr. Glaucomflecken

c'mon now

i did google the condition and its a real thing fwiw

also someone can be an eye doctor and a joker too!

Dr. Glaucomflecken @DGlaucomflecken
Ophthalmologist. Comedian. Speaker. Problematic.

Tobias Fünke style !

he seems to cry quite easily these days

That cry came 45 mins into his 1st interview

after the "winning comes at a price" etc answer? it did seem odd to get choked up there idk

I'm hearing reports that Jordan is increasingly isolated

after the "winning comes at a price" etc answer? it did seem odd to get choked up there idk

― johnny crunch, Monday, May 11, 2020 bookmarkflaglink

thought the same thing

my wife commented on it too

yeah same

"Break."

The whole conspiracy theory about MJ’s dad’s murder and MJ’s gambling was so fucked up - then Andrea Kremer sitting there on camera giving it more air! girl, bye

Also the whole time I’ve been watching this, I kept thinking how MJ reminds me of Shere Khan from the Jungle Book

This scene was PURE king of the jungle shit

The best part of the Doc is watching MJ laugh at Gary Payton #LastDance

pic.twitter.com/vAFo90Aken

— Vendetta Media (@media_vendetta) May 11, 2020

anyone who believes Stern forced him out understands nothing about how things work. "let's get read of the league's meal ticket, because word that he's a gambling addict mayyyyy come out. But after 1.5 seasons he can come back". Conspiracy theories are a mental disease.

Who here believes that it was MJ's "style" as a teammate that got the Bulls their championships vs it was just his talent that pushed them over the top?

Is there an example of someone as competitive as Jordan who wasn't an asshole to his teammates? Is his competitiveness the reason he was the best of all time? He kinda seems to think so.

xpost Yeah it’s that whole thing of avoiding processing the tragedy as an act of chaos - it’s funny how the need to put concrete reasons behind the murder and have it ~make sense~ ironically allows for ideas that have little to no connection w reality

Kobe was not known for being easy to get along with...

Is there an example of someone as competitive as Jordan who wasn't an asshole to his teammates?

Giannis ??

i feel like duncan is a good example of a player with that same drive to win, same passion, different skillset and different mindset

sidebar I Loved this moment too <3

Favorite moment of the week #lastdance
Pippen calling Jordan back 😬 pic.twitter.com/FkFXMZLzxM

— Saymyname (@iamabhiramhari) May 11, 2020

i only watched him at the VERY end of his career but I believe Kareem was ultra-competitive and a good teammate

the playoff game that Pippen sat out the last play on was ultra-painful to relive. I can totally see Cartwright crying about it in the locker room.

good call on Duncan

Who here believes that it was MJ's "style" as a teammate that got the Bulls their championships vs it was just his talent that pushed them over the top?

He was a dick and it was unnecessary. There's ways to "hold your teammates to your own high standards" without being a dick, I'm sure of it.

VG, that was my favorite moment too.

scottie is super cool.

man i forgot about keith van horn

Scottie is super cool*

*except when punking out on his own team by sulking over who gets to throw the buzzer beating shot. CMON SCOTTIE

i don't fully subscribe to the jay kang 'scottie was right' theory, but...

Scottie was right. Are you kidding me. He put aside everything for 3 chips, got underpaid and they want him to inbound the ball to some rookie who doesn’t play defense?

— kang👎 (@jaycaspiankang) May 11, 2020

rmde

petty-ass gradeschool bullshit

Shouldn’t you be inbounding to guys who are good at offense

THANK YOU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jB64fvG5zdw

yeah lol, i agree that it was a punk move on scottie's part, but i kinda resent the fact that this one thing is apparently the career-defining moment for him, not the decades' worth of deference and selfless play.

the huge fight in the second quarter from that clip is shrugged off as no big deal; if that happened in 2019/2020 it would've been a GARGANTUAN story
i miss scrappy ball, ron artest has a lot to answer for

good on dick versace for offering his head as butterfly cocoon

i wanted so badly to draw droopy ears and a black nose on him like a dog

Kukoc's game winner was an incredible shot, kinda sad it was so overshadowed

dude gets the shaft so often! i feel bad for him.

yeah he comes across really well in those interviews, very sensible attitude about all the crazy experiences he had

It's weird how he was never really beloved in Chicago. Liked, sure. I'm guessing because he was foreign when that was a pretty novel thing in American sports.

And yeah fuck Scottie for that. It doesn't mar my opinion of him overall but that's something I'd expect from a preening top ranked hs recruit not an nba veteran with multiple rings.

I think it's remembered so well partly because it seemed out of character

scottie has always been a weird socially awkward dude and an elite player

Dick Versace used to be on the Sunday late night local sports report and I must've missed half of everything he said because I was entranced by his "hair".

it’s like he was too cheap for a toupeé and just glued some cushion filler to his head

it looks SO weird.

I often think about how close the 94 bulls were to winning the title, how they probably would have beaten the rockets etc. And pippen pulled that shit in the midst of it! He was so close to building a legacy for himself as the mvp of a championship team but something inside him couldn’t tolerate Kukoc having a play run for him.

its pretty funny he still feels running a play for kukoc was unacceptable

also notable all these scores in 80s, an ot game in which neither teams gets to 100

xp Yeah I wouldn’t let it mar my opinion of him if he didn’t say he wouldn’t do anything differently if he could go back. wtf

id be apologizing my ass off for the last 25 years but a tip o the cap to him for walking his own path lol

It’s just so damn dumb. Doesnt change how much I like Pippen really at all but it’s like

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/ForcefulWideHoiho-size_restricted.gif

its especially funny considering kukoc hit the shot

I could only be just deeply embarrassed for him rewatching that...like, you won! How does he celebrate?

Scottie saying he’d do the same again is SMDH wtf is wrong with u

weird dude

i guess i find the pippen thing pretty overplayed. it didn't affect the outcome of the game or the series. he apologized right after. he had an out of character moment like all of us have.

the idea that it's a stain on his legacy or something is bizarre to me.

It's a juicy nugget

he’s a generally cool dude who acted like a jerk
that to me is news

I was milling around the concourse at united center before a game during the Chris Duhon-Mike Sweetney Era and a side door opened right by me. Out comes Pippen wearing a Santa hat, pulling a huge wagon full of toys. Shocked, I say "Scottie!" and he extends a handshake. Totally enveloped my tiny girlish hands. He is one lanky dude. I remember having to crane my neck to look him in the eye (I'm 6'1").

worth noting that although it worked out phil's idea of running a play for kukoc probably scanned as insane at the time, he was a rookie who ranked 11th on the team in true shooting. if they wanted to run a play for a shooter there were a couple of guys named steve kerr and bj armstrong.

kukoc hit a very difficult shot, it wasn't a good shot at all

yes, he didn't get a good look, idk what play they were running but process =/ result

Pippen is odd looking but he's hardly the most weirdly shaped dude on the Bulls, that would be Phil Jackson

all these scores in 80s, an ot game in which neither teams gets to 100

all through the 90s the NBA officiating, especially in the playoffs, allowed defenders to bang against, shove, muscle aside, hack, and occasionally outright mug offensive players. I hated that aspect of the era and I blame the Pat Riley Knicks as much as I blame the Bad Boy Pistons. To me that's not good hoops, and I'm much happier with the speedy, smooth, creative offensive flows of today's game.

I’ve always thought Scottie was really handsome. Watching this show has def given me a new appreciation for how CRAZY handsome MJ was; for some reason I didnt think so at the time but I have always been a committed contrarian when it counts lol

those knicks-heat series in the late 90's were torture xp

BJ wins the handsomest bull imo

astonished that bj "babyface" armstrong still looks younger than me

just watched the last episode and my god the labradford smith story

they brushed over the "it was complete bullshit" revelation WAY TOO FAST

My mom def had (has?) a crush on MJ but also thought Horace Grant was pretty handsome: "look at those high cheekbones!"
Only other NBA player's looks I remember her commenting on was Rony Seikaly: "looks like a Greek god" lol.

fascinating seeing winston cigarette advertising way up in the rafters in indy's arena in 95, i def don't remember that stuff being around sports arenas

worth noting that although it worked out phil's idea of running a play for kukoc probably scanned as insane at the time, he was a rookie who ranked 11th on the team in true shooting. if they wanted to run a play for a shooter there were a couple of guys named steve kerr and bj armstrong.

This seems to be the same play pretty much?

https://youtu.be/uUTfJlezXPY

^ Good thing the official timekeeper was working for a Bulls home game, because from the moment the ball touched kukoc's hands to when it left them was more than 0.8 seconds.

lol reggie was such a bastard what happened to him

a truly all time heel who sucks so bad at his job now that i can barely appreciate what he used to be

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EX1eSxhX0AEIK-M?format=jpg&name=medium

^ note MJ's tongue (in profile) and all the empty seats.

^ Good thing the official timekeeper was working for a Bulls home game, because from the moment the ball touched kukoc's hands to when it left them was more than 0.8 seconds.

Not the fastest catch and shoot but that’s all it is, hard for that to be more than .7

He catches while airborne, comes down, plants, makes a feint, then elevates, then shoots... in 0.8?

yes

watch it in slo mo

don't know what feint you're seeing there

I watched it again. Paused it and when he'd already caught it and was holding the ball at waist level, the clock shows.., 0.8 seconds.

isn't it 1.8 on the clock for that shot?

ANYWAY.. I just watched it again. not mentioned in the doc - pippen's last two good looks leading up to that were 1) a brick 2) giving up possession on a shot clock violation.

and it's out of his hands with .3 left so..............

........the Bulls officially won the game.

clock never really starts on the catch........because of the human brane

I watched part 7 last night. Pippen bailing was completely new to me--I guess I wasn't paying attention to basketball at all at that point. Amazing...I was trying to think if I've ever seen anything comparable in baseball, but I'm not sure that you can even having something comparable in baseball.

a starter getting pinch hit for in bot of 9th?

In terms of the perceived insult, yes, but he's being removed from the game by the manager; Pippen removed himself. Maybe if you sent your closer out in the 6th in a non-crucial situation because you'd lost confidence in him and he refused to go out.

xp I still remember Trent Tucker hitting that shot to win game with .1 seconds left. Caused them to make rule that anything less than .3 had to be a tip in/volley.

The Bulls, led by first-year head coach Phil Jackson, later filed an official protest with the NBA about the play. By their estimate, the play took closer to 0.4 seconds. However, timekeeper Bob Billings and referee Ronnie Nunn, who were working that game, claimed everything went perfectly fine. The protest was disallowed.

lol never change, nba refs

After the Trent tucker thing they did slow motion studies and found that .3 is the minimum amount of time for anyone to catch and shoot. But .8 is a lot longer! Pretty much everyone has a catch and shoot faster than that.

That Trent tucker shot was QUICK, admittedly. Probably right at .3.

wikipedia says they used studies done in Europe, where they'd been using the tenths game/shot clock for awhile already. but yeah dude had a super quick release.

so many slow game clock stops throughout a half add up to at least a few seconds of unfairly lost time. we need chipped balls and computer vision to be sure who wins a ball game.

https://awfulannouncing.com/si/steve-wulf-writer-sports-illustrated-admits-he-was-wrong-on-michael-jordan-playing-baseball.html

In terms of the perceived insult, yes, but he's being removed from the game by the manager; Pippen removed himself. Maybe if you sent your closer out in the 6th in a non-crucial situation because you'd lost confidence in him and he refused to go out.

I am guessing there were several closers in the 90s and 00s who made it clear they wouldn't come out before the 9th, especially when contracts have dumb clauses about how "50 saves" earns you another few million and your arm can go at any point

still to do it during a playoff game is just nuts, I cannot believe Scottie saying he wouldn't change a thing, wtf

the baseball stuff was fascinating, wish they'd spent more time on that. kinda respect Michael for actually doing it, after teasing everyone for a couple years that he was done. can't imagine how crazy that must've been to live through as a Bulls fan, outside of LeBron's Decision I can't think of anything even remotely close to that. otoh walking away after winning 3 straight titles still feels crazy to me, at that point you're not quite cemented as the best player ever and I find it hard to believe that MJ really couldn't find the 'motivation' to win another title, wtf

go check out the 30 for 30 about jordan's baseball days, it's good.

always wanted to see that, guess now is the time

was the general consensus that Jordan could've made the majors had he gotten another year to work at it? obviously 32 is pretty old for a debut but clearly the man was still in shape

No. But he was said to be making "progress". Particularly in the Fall league just before the strike happened when he played for the Scottsdale Scorpions.