battle of the NBA’s next point gods

think i'm all in on haliburton now that i've actually watched him play and not just seen some nash-esque stats on paper

sga is the safest pick though, he was the best last year and is currently the best this year too

Agreed on SGA, if Lamelo Ball didn't have ankles made of sticks he'd be a contender.

my current rankings are

1) SGA — has been good on both bad teams and good teams. three level scorer and can get to the line with ease and plays well above average defense for his position. will be an MVP candidate the next 5 years at least
2) haliburton — sort of just a better version of trae, honestly no idea how his shot falls with those mechanics but can’t argue with the results. unclear if he has the mindtype to ever be an average defender but he’s already in the conversation for the best non-jokic offensive player in the whole league.
3) edwards — love this guy so much, imo projects to be the best defender of this crew, but has a ways to go as a playmaker in comparison to the other two and might have a hard ceiling as a shooter, time will tell
4) ja — I am skeptical of this player archetype in general, I just don’t think guys who don’t have at least 2/3 of playmaking, defense, and outside shooting are serious 1A championship types, obviously he has a lot to prove on and off the court. but clearly he’s a borderline all-nba talent already and still very young
5) fox — seems like he is what he is at this point, a guy who is never really going to play serious defense but is an elite playmaker. the clutch stuff seems bound to regress
6) maxey — super cool player, has shown a lot as a scorer and playmaker with a larger role but I have some doubts about his ceiling due to size and defensive projections
7) trae — has somehow turned himself into a less than abominable defender over the years. passing savant though the question of whether he’s actually a good shooter or just plays one on TV is unanswered at this point
8) lamelo — earns an incomplete grade, in all likelihood will unfortunately be a what-if guy
9) cade — just a complete zero unfortunately, some hope that it’s organization dependent though given his pedigree and basic stats he’ll always command a contract which will limit his role flexibility. unclear what he does well apart from looking the part of a “guy”

i got 1 shai 2 ant 3 hali

Completely sentimental one for Maxey because I love this hooper so much.

current rankings:

shai
fox
ant
morant
trae
hali
maxey
melo
cade

future career projections:

ant
shai
hali
fox
trae
maxey

cade (who knows really)
melo (those ball lower leg limbs just cant stay healthy, a natural baller but not sure he has 'the mindset')
morant (no self awareness, too reckless, will prob flame out quick and not currently an a team that is willing to pay to win)

Trae’s played better in the last 7 games or so but I still think his biggest weakness is bad turnovers and poor shot selection that leads teams to easy buckets. The hawks defense is always on its heels.

for future value, i think ant is the guy. he just has a rare mentality to go with his otherworldly athletic gifts.

gonna vote shai tho, cause he is arguably already the best guard in the whole darn league.

based on choosing which 'point god' I'd want to build a team around, SGA. If it had just been who would I build a team around, I might have chosen Ant Edwards.

i wouldn't vote for him over any of these guys (probably) but what's the deal with darius garland? looks like his numbers are down across the board this year.

trying to win a chip, it's between shai and ant. who would bring the most joy into my life to cheer for? hali

voted shai

i wouldn't vote for him over any of these guys (probably) but what's the deal with darius garland? looks like his numbers are down across the board this year.

― kissinger on my list (voodoo chili), Thursday, December 7, 2023 11:41 AM (forty-six minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

sharing the court with donovan mitchell is hard

very good poll

and lol cade

I write this as one of the few that watches every Pistons game!

my condolences!

my rankings were forward looking btw. hali is an MVP candidate already honestly I think

could make a case for ant too, best player on the team with the best record in the league doing it on both ends

Point Zion

zion is bad its sad to see

gotta be SGA:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/basketball-star-shai-gilgeous-alexander-wins-lawsuit-undo-home-sale-1.7052140

https://i.cbc.ca/1.7015288.1698859234!/cumulusImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/original_1180/lakefront-mansion-in-burlington.jpg

look at those big houses right next to each other thats what 8m gets you in toronto these days smh

changing my rankings from this morning to:

current rankings:

hali

(big gap)

shai
fox
ant
morant
trae
maxey
melo
cade

the halliburton question is the toughest one for me cuz i feel like the only thing separating him from being the trae young experience is that he is shooting like steph curry and not like trae young. but what if this is just who he is

i’m doing deep meditative thinking before posting my rankings bcuz the last time we did this i submitted one of the wrongest posts in ILH history

should luka not be included in this exercise? he is a few months older than ja and younger than trae/fox

too big

i’m doing deep meditative thinking before posting my rankings bcuz the last time we did this i submitted one of the wrongest posts in ILH history

― slob wizard (J0rdan S.), Thursday, December 7, 2023 8:15 PM (twenty minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

<3

I re-read that thread yesterday and tbh if it were not for my homerism, we all basically whiffed

should luka not be included in this exercise? he is a few months older than ja and younger than trae/fox

― Clay, Thursday, December 7, 2023 8:20 PM (twenty-three minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I consciously excluded him due to already being too established

that's about what i figured

the halliburton question is the toughest one for me cuz i feel like the only thing separating him from being the trae young experience is that he is shooting like steph curry and not like trae young. but what if this is just who he is

― slob wizard (J0rdan S.), Thursday, December 7, 2023 6:14 PM (thirty-nine minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

the shooting is what it is at this point, 200+ game sample size of 48/41/86 splits

trae 370+ games 44/35/87

trae offsets it a bit with 8-9 FTA per game to halis 3-4

luka is a forward to me

i do think there is something about trae young being a verifiably average-ish shooter from 3 while also being one of the league’s great hoisters that drags down his team in a way that stats don’t fully quantify. there is not much ego in halliburton’s game

trae could shoot a good % if he took better shots but that would require doing more than standing five feet behind the three point line when he doesnt have the ball

haliburton def seems like a team joy everyone eats type of guy

yeah i was going to say i think the major other difference between trae and tyrese is that all tyrese's teammates seem to like him

one of the pod guys i think it was zach was talking recently about how halliburton basically had to force himself to shoot as much as other people want him shooting bcuz it’s in his nature to facilitate first. i don’t think trae young has this issue…

one of the pod guys i think it was zach was talking recently about how halliburton basically had to force himself to shoot as much as other people want him shooting bcuz it’s in his nature to facilitate first. i don’t think trae young has this issue…

― slob wizard (J0rdan S.), Thursday, December 7, 2023 7:34 PM (twenty-three minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

if thats the case then he really is a nash disciple

nekias agrees:

Nash with 75 shot tendency https://t.co/00jACRiFnm

— Nekias (Nuh-KY-us) Duncan (@NekiasNBA) December 7, 2023

There have been 17 games in NBA history where a player has 25+ points, 15+ assists, and zero turnovers.

Nobody has done it more than once except for Tyrese Haliburton, who has done it three times since Nov. 12, including tonight.

Unreal.

— Wheat Hotchkiss (@Wheat_Hotchkiss) December 8, 2023

shai is the best all round player right now. in order:

shai
hali
fox
ja
trae
lamelo
maxey
cade

ant doesnt belong on this list.

i would caveat that shai isn't up to handling the entire distribution load like hali is. shai gets a lot more help in that department. its his scoring and defence that give him an edge right now.

EPIC BATTLE OF THE PGs! 🔥

Shai Gilgeous-Alexander and De'Aaron Fox put on one hell of a scoring show in the Kings' thrilling 128-123 victory over the Thunder 👀

De'Aaron: 43 Pts, 7 Ast, 2 Stl, 14/23 FG
Shai: 43 Pts, 9 Ast, 6 Reb, 13/27 FG pic.twitter.com/brgt1mk59k

— ClutchPoints (@ClutchPoints) December 15, 2023

maybe it's true garland doesn't really belong on this list but his touch is so soft, it's crazy. i love him so much. career 45/38/86. 23 years old. averaging 6 assists and 20ppg.

he's also ahead of tatum and holiday in "defensive win shares" whatever tf that is

id def take him ahead of some of the guys on the list

garland has a very aesthetically pleasing game it’s true

id def take him ahead of some of the guys on the list

― lag∞n, Saturday

who?

let’s just come out and say it: darius garland is hot af

that said he made a couple of horrible plays in the game last night, like the layup that tatum blocked into oblivion was very lazy

lol tatum was waiting on him

he has a fractured jaw now, out for a bit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fmQRiGt3-o

oh no, he came back in after that too

id def take him ahead of some of the guys on the list

― lag∞n, Saturday

who?

― micah, Friday, December 15, 2023 10:38 AM (three hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

i mean cade obviously but im willing to discuss trae ja lamelo maxey, i think garland could put up some big numbers if he wasnt playing next to a very similar guy

Trae Young in December:

30.8 PPG
11.6 APG
1.4 STLs + BLKs
41.2 3P% on 10.2 3PA/G!!
47.5/41.2/86.4 splits overall.

it’s getting cold…❄️ pic.twitter.com/wxfg6dXEgH

— #InSnyderWeTrust (@dlee4three) December 16, 2023

what's the hawks record in december?

i salute trae for putting up good stats for seven games, not going to say how many of those were loses

as a fan of the team that owns the hawks picks from 2025 to 2027, i am very excited about the trajectory of the atlanta hawks basketball franchise

it doesnt make sense that theyre this bad at defense theyve got a bunch of supposedly good defensive players and a supposedly good coach and yet theyre a bottom five defense can trae and bogdan really be that bad

guess i could see if they were starting them and playing them a lot together but theyre not

They lost Jalen Johnson and fell apart

a whole team shouldnt be dependant on one jalen johnson, i honestly just dont see what their deal is, if they had just a middling d theyd be decent, instead they have great offense and terrible defense, its no way to live

is capela cooked, he still gets rebounds and blocks

The Hawks bench is wafer thin. They have an eight-man rotation when DeAndre Hunter and Jalen Johnson are actually healthy. I don't think they're dying to play the Matthews brothers or Paddy Mills or Bruno Fernando.

hunters started 22 games, theyve got eight good players when healthy, wes mathews is averaging 12mins a game which is the most out of those four guys

xp will not stand for patrick thrills slander, just on principle

Ha I k ew shit would fly for mentioning that Trae’s a p good point guard. Y’all r like knicks fans or some shit. Bing bong

Hah ILH does not like Trae

hes not valid

we still have never caught him in dyckman

Need to add Coby White to this list I guess :)

Coby White tonight:

24 PTS
8 REB
9 AST

Averaging 25/7/6 over his last eight games. https://t.co/GuALxCyPYD

— StatMuse (@statmuse) December 19, 2023

Scottie Barnes’ shooting leap has rightfully garnered tons of attention, but De’Aaron Fox is having a similar, if not bigger, shooting leap.

He’s hitting 40% of his 3s and taking 9 of them each game. 40% on pull-ups and catch-and-shoots! Insane numbers.

— Jackson Frank (@jackfrank_jjf) December 29, 2023

As the league gets ever friendlier to the offense and more difficult to defend, what used to be first team All-NBA PG stats are becoming almost commonplace. The talent level among starting guards and the blurring of distinctions between point and shooting guards means the kind of separation Steph Curry achieved between himself and his nearest peers isn't possible any more. Half the starting PGs can put up point god numbers now.

i think my three toxic opinions regarding these guys are as follows

1. i believe in ja the basketball player a lot more than you guys

2. fox is an ultimate dog in the chest x ray player to me & has been since he was punking lonzo on national TV in college. the widespread acceptance that the kings “traded the wrong guy” feels very premature to me

3. i’m taking cade over like half of these guys

so my rankings are …

1. anthony edwards

only guy on this list who sometimes looks like michael jordan. i do think the real team playoff success will come down the line when this roster has turned over almost completely. i don’t actually see him as a PG, i think you’ll need a real secondary ball handler who can shoot at guard with him but the derrick whites of the world are out there. i think he’s showing this year at the end of games that he is hitting the point of “getting to my spot and you can’t do shit” on offense and top tier on ball individual defense. SGA has been mentioned as the current d wade equivalent previously but like…

pic.twitter.com/vSwOpC6vq2 https://t.co/vJKInChuvS

— Brett Usher (@UsherNBA) December 29, 2023

I will just say that Fox was the guy I wanted Philly to take at 3 the year they traded up for Fultz.

I forget who the other big pg in college was that year, but Fox took it personal and ate him up in tournament game.

Lol, I think it was Lonzo. Put up 39/3/4 on him. Lonzo had 10 points.

yes my love of fox is rooted in that game

that fox/monk kentucky team was so much fun, only right that they’re teammates again

i don’t like the way he plays basketball & it feels like this iteration of their team is smacking its head against the ceiling and there is blood running down its face.

i love everything about this sentence

:)

upon further consideration i think i was too hard on halli in terms of my comps — you definitely would have to throw dame in there for him too, and the main reason why people never soured on dame the same way they did/have to whatever extent on harden/trae/luka is primarily because dame is just a stand up guy & halliburton def seems cut from that same cloth. i could easily see halli getting to a similar spot where the pacers aren’t a real threat to come out of the east but winning a playoff series is a realistic goal most years & everyone is pretty cool with that because he’s just a good guy who plays a fun style of ball. i don’t get the sense that pacers fans are the championship or bust types. i think i’m just not sure i see what clearly separates him from ja and fox to pick at least those two, beyond the shooting, which does matter but isn’t the end all be all & also does seem to be one of the more improvable skills (i.e. scottie barnes). like fox and ja can close the shooting gap on halli (fox possibly already is) but there isn’t a way for halli to i.e. attain fox’s speed or ja’s athleticism

well he is a bunch bigger than those two and i dont think they are getting taller

pacers defensive woes are mostly a personnel issue. there are about 3 plus defenders on the whole roster. the team is in a transitional mode right now and i expect they will find more of a balance in the next season... and hali will be continue to be great.

well he is a bunch bigger than those two and i dont think they are getting taller

― micah, Saturday, December 30, 2023 8:27 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

hes also an elite passer, and while the competition might improve their shooting theyre just not gonna get to halis level

you look at guys who can really pass and really score and really shoot and its a pretty nice mix your steve nashes nikola jokices your luka donices, not saying hali is on their level but he is 23 years old averaging 25-4-12 50/42/85, which is not some wildly out of trend year for him, his ceiling is very high, on offense at least lol

the thing about combining elite passing with great scoring is it makes you very hard to double team which is the traditional method for stopping a guy who is scoring too much

other elite passers on the list are trae and lamelo, neither of whom have quite put it together in the way youd like

trae cause hes just too committed to the heliocentric life and lamelo cause he cant stay healthy

hali turning into what i thought lamelo would be

suns big three played last night and they beat the hornets brad beal had six points in 30 mins

incorrect thread

sorry to see that cade is now under the well known “ILH j0rdan poll curse”, I will be praying for him

fair point re halliburton’s size tho it’s a bit meaningless if he doesn’t actually put that to use on defense. his block and steal rates aren’t much or any better than fox or ja — halli’s steal rate has actually cratered this year, must just be the offensive burden. i should have given him more credit for his lack of turnovers, that’s a big thing. but those other guys aren’t slouches as passers either.

he’s amazing at a lot of the stuff that works in today’s league maybe i’m just overthinking it. i think i just will have trouble judging him until their style of play stops feeling like one of those experimental high school basketball teams bcuz it feels a bit like fantasy land to me. but maybe halli is the next steve nash revolutionary! i cannot rule that out. carlisle’s track record the last handful of years of defensive basketball is completely horrid btw, does this ever get fixed? does he care about defense i’m legitimately not sure

23 indy - 28th d rating
22 indy - 26th
21 indy - 28th
20 dal - 21st
19 dal - 18th

he is capable of caring about defense. he has coached good defensive teams further in the past. cubans gm issues are well known and i think any coach would have struggled to field a capable defense around starting center dwight powell for instance

could see how he mightve settled into a if you get me good defensive players i will coach defense but until then i will only dream of getting buckets mode

totes. i think hes maybe more of a realist than most coaches and is happy to just punt defense if he doesnt have the roster for it and isnt going to be in title contention anyway

isn’t myles turner supposed to be a good rim protector? was that overstated or is he just worse now? is every player on the pacers so bad at D that his rim protection is meaningless?

the stuff about the mavs personnel being bad falls on deaf ears for me given how they played defense when j kidd got there and despite even more horrific decisions by the front office including one of the worst moves in the NBA period over the last 3 year (letting brunson walk) have still been better as a team overall since carlisle left even taking last year into consideration

yes - every player on the pacers is so bad at D that his rim protection is meaningless.

and he is maybe a bit worse now.

yeah i’m gonna have stop you guys here and say that i don’t thinking punting on defense is chess not checkers coaching lol. i guess it’s hard for me to watch spo teach a bunch of g leaguers how to consistently play good defense when his best players are constantly in and out of the line up and not think that punting on defense is an abdication of coaching duties. you’re the coach!

they dont have heat culture tho

at one point the mavs actually out cultured the heat!

crazy to think about how so much has changed

the last time carlisle coached a top half of the league defense was the 2016-2017 season

the last time he coached a top 12 defense was 2011-2012

In the last 5 games, the Pistons have a net rating of +.7 when Cade Cunningham is ON, and are -37.2 in the 49 minutes when he is OFF.

— Duncan Smith (@DuncanSmithNBA) December 30, 2023

i’ve seen enough—cade is the mvp

“Even dating a pretty girl gets boring after a while if she can’t guard anybody,” - Rick Carlisle, out of context, about his team.

— Tony East (@TonyREast) December 30, 2023

I just feel like SGA has proven enough at this point and is playing well enough to annoint him as the winner here. and it truly pains me to point this out but I did vote for him a month ago as documented above

SGA in december: 32.6/5.5/6.7 with 3.3 steals and 0.8 blocks on .648 true shooting, despite having a weirdly bad 3 point shooting month (.256), just feels like he’s already arrived and planted his flag. hard to see now he ends up out of the top 5 of the MVP discussion at this point

he’s done enough in the last month to definitively say he’s the best of all these guys?

sga was the easy vote just because hes already really good, and also cool, most or maybe all of the other guys will never be as good as he is now

i’m not gonna tell anyone who voted for shai that they’re wrong. but it’s worth keeping in mind that ant edwards is 3 years younger than shai and the gap between them right now is definitely real but i wouldn’t say it’s massive or anything

I definitely wouldn’t fault anyone for choosing edwards either, but picking shai just feels like a bird in the hand situation to me. he’s doing it night in and night out, seems like he’s a playoff series win away from breaking into the luka/tatum tier

yeah its not hard to imagine ant maxxing out as better than shai, hes obvs got the stuff to do it just gotta put it all together

btw just started listening to the thinking basketball podcast best players under 25, they chose luka then ant 1-2 (shai doesn’t qualify), I recently watched the youtube for the channel for the first time and found the voices attached to the faces very upsetting, it seems like they should be reversed and someone should look into it

lol

hali last two games combined 43 points 43 assists 2 turnovers

fucking hell

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

point god shit

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

PBKR gotta be responsible for making the official ILH take maxey > ja

Completely sentimental one for Maxey because I love this hooper so much.

― il lavoro mi rovina la giornata (PBKR), Wednesday, December 6, 2023 12:50 AM (three weeks ago) bookmarkflaglink

this video makes the observation that haliburton tends to avoid defenders rather than challenge them, which is an interesting approach, kinda seems like it wouldnt work cause the defense wouldnt be compromised enough but i guess when you see the court as well as him its ok

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WK-xtv3xWI

These shows are a complete waste of time lol

Malika Andrews: "Is Tyrese Maxey the best PG in the East?"

Brian Windhorst: "I think he could make a strong case…"

Kendrick Perkins: "…You know who I'm going with…Jalen Brunson!…proven in the big moments…"

Malika: "No one's taking Tyrese Haliburton?…"

Perk: "…excellent… pic.twitter.com/5RvJz4ElqB

— New York Basketball (@NBA_NewYork) January 13, 2024

absolutely haha

Really makes you appreciate ILH

always

This is the sweetest entrance I’ve ever seen 🥹😊 Brucey B is BACK pic.twitter.com/tbCgqj93Zf

— Katy Winge (@katywinge) January 14, 2024

brucie B ring night tonight

oops wrong thread

pacers are 14th in d rating, 4th in net rating, and 7-2 in the 9 games since carlisle said that "even dating a pretty girl gets boring after a while if she can't guard anyone"

carlisles war on pretty girls paying off bigtime

sadly for cade cunningham his career ended when a guy from the ringer wrote an article three weeks into the season about how he can't score at the rim. that being said, nice to see him finishing the month of february w/ a 22/5/7 line on 50/45/83 shooting. his TS% on the season is now up to 55% ... was 50% and 49% the last two years. FG% from 0-3 feet up to 61% on the season, up from 56% and 58% the last two seasons. while fighting god's toughest battle (being coached by monty williams) every single day...

good for cade hopefully he we get to play on a good team sooner than later

monty’s contract has to be up soon (checks the internet)

today is as good a day as ever to remember that ant edwards is 3 years younger than shai

so fuckin crazy

not easy to get to where shai is now ant can def do it but were also just a few games removed from him taking a 2 down 3 with 3 seconds left, ants ceiling is prob higher but shai is proven, think we had this exact discussion upthread tho

tho tbf re shai is proven neither of them have really played in the playoffs which is interesting

shai basically putting up kd numbers and he plays d, tho one weird thing he hardly takes any threes, which i guess is kd like too

Before shai turns 28 the 3ball will be solidly in his repertoire.

one would hope, his 3pt shot is pretty weird it starts really low i think he needs to tighten it up a bit to be able to get it off in more spots

couple years old but i think its about the same now

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIWzFhM2IKQ

Need to add Coby White to this list I guess :)

― infinite wiggles (Spottie), Monday, December 18, 2023 8:58 PM (four months ago) bookmarkflaglink

he looked like such a strong, controlled finisher last night. i can't say i watched too many bulls games this season and i know he's had a great year, but at least in this instance the hawks purported "defense" seemed to be a not insignificant factor

I victory lapped one game too early

he does not belong in this convo

feeling pretty good about my cade cunningham optimism in this thread. i think his size threw people off the scent of who he is as a player. i'll again bring up chris paul as a comparison point, from what i've been able to see of him this year he looks even more refined in terms of pace in the half court, dictation of possessions etc. now that he's playing w/ something approaching 21st century spacing he gets into the middle of the floor at will and is becoming a really effective scorer from there. some quick splits

FG% 3-10 FT

23-24: 45%
24-25: 55%

FG% 10-16 FT

23-24: 52%
24-25: 66%

for comparison, shai (who is renowned in these areas) shot 49% from 3-10 and 53% from 10-16 in his top 3 MVP finish last year

cade also has his 3pt% up to 37% this year -- he was bombing pull ups vs the heat last night. his dreaded finishing at the rim is actually at career worst levels, but his shooting has been so good that he's at a career high TS% (56%)

he's turning the ball over like crazy this year so that will have to be monitored, i think most of it is still due to handling the ball every time down on a young bad team. he is playing a traditional PG's style of basketball but needs to get the AST/TO ratio in line w/ that. but there are just not many guys his size in the league who can score 25 a game but play w/ a point guard's mentality

we all just kinda gave up on lamelo being a real part of this convo and i am closely watching his performance vis a vis some other names on this listyresehalliburton

if lamelo can stay healthy he is so good

lamelo is awesome when he plays.

otm

i still think even if he plays a full season he needs to beat the unserious allegations, but the team they seem to have a potentially better coach and the roster around him actually makes some sense now

i feel like one thing we can safely say is that the somewhat pervasive argument from before the 2023 draft that the hornets shouldn't think about fit and should just pick scoot because he'll be a better franchise cornerstone than lamelo anyway so you can just trade lamelo and reorient your whole team.... i think they dodged a bullet there

i still think even if he plays a full season he needs to beat the unserious allegations

― slob wizard (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, October 29, 2024 2:42 PM (twelve minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

yeah the thing about being injured all the time is you dont get to make progress on yr game (defense, finishing, getting serious)

he def seems like an in it for the 'gram type of dude but yeah until we see a long stretch of health and some high leverage games/moments we just wont know if that's a smoke screen for the killer inside, or not

also tho i just cant take that org seriously cos they employ miles bridges

ja morant 32-9-9 on 11-20 shooting, 4-6 from three in a road win in boston

cade cunningham 29-10–15 on 9-17 shooting, 5-8 from three in a road win in MSG

assist per game this year: Trae = 12.0

next closest: Cade = 9.1

next closest of this group that is...

bump

top 3 finishers in our poll leading 3 of the 4 remaining teams. Brunson was 6 months too old to meet the criteria k3v set, wonder where he would've placed

have a feeling this thread will continue to be an interesting revisit for some time to come

god it’s so hard to be right on all of these polls

I was a little bit wrong on cade probably tbf