The Angst-filled, Anxiety-fueled, Drama-obsessed 2025 NBA OFFSEASON THREAD

have to kick this off at some point so why not with this--david griffin out in new orleans

Baring some terrible lottery luck, the Sixers have managed to keep their top 6 pick.

Assuming they don't move up and get Flagg at 1, who should I hope they get at 5?

Coach Bud out in Phoenix

imagine going back to those watching the 2021 Finals and telling them that Budenholzer would be fired by both the Bucks AND the Suns in less than 4 years. you'd probably never be able to work out what exactly happened but might suspect KD was involved

well, he was basically being fired in real time during the playoffs so i think if you had told someone the bucks won the finals and bud was still fired two seasons later it wouldn't have been that surprising

in fact our understanding in that moment of bud as an obviously good but still highly flawed coach may have been the most accurate one, tho it wasn't really any issues w/ his regular season performances

hard to say much of what happened in phoenix was bud's fault and there's nothing there that a new coach is just going to fix, but there's absolutely no point in keeping him around either.

yeah when you've fired a coach 3 years in a row... maybe it's not the coach?

so the pelicans are going to replace david griffin with joe dumars in a truly alltime loser franchise move

suns had to fire bud cause booker doesnt like him and theyre desperately trying to retain him

not that retaining booker is the right move but whatre you gonna do

its the right move for the fans. i think there would be a pretty big revolt if they traded him away without his request

with those contracts for KD and Beal they're in a tight corner. that is not a team where you want anything to do with the second apron.

they should trade Booker for Austin Reaves and a 2nd rounder

vaguely ominous statement by book

Devin Booker on Phoenix Suns fans still supporting the team after they were eliminated from playoff contention:

“It took a real Suns fan to be in there tonight… I pay respect to the person that it was either their first time or maybe their last time ever seeing me play.”

noted on the lowe pod that booker said how crazy it is that they were just in the finals a few seasons ago and now theyre here.

like i said i think he gives it one more ride with whatever they can scrap together from a KD trade this offseason and if it's looking bleak again he'll ask out at the deadline.

yeah sounds right

simmons said it well on that pod -- if the team and the coach are problems but you're stuck w/ the team then your only option is to fire the coach. even if it's the third year in a row of doing so

say a thing they owe 75M in fired coaches from the last three seasons

Sam Amico
@AmicoHoops
·
3h
Report: Pelicans ownership will mandate Joe Dumars to trade Zion Williamson

the nico stuff today is just so embarrassing lol

a genuine fuckin lame

seems obvious that a lot of this was driven by luka not acting like nico was his boss, turns out only one of them is good at basketball

Sam Amico
@AmicoHoops
·
3h
Report: Pelicans ownership will mandate Joe Dumars to trade Zion Williamson

― lil $CHUB (Spottie), Tuesday, April 15, 2025 3:31 PM (six hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

you can always get the best value when trading the player is a publicly-known mandate iirc

Luka Doncic tells @malika_andrews about throwing his phone and breaking it when he found out he got traded to the Lakers 😳

"My heart was broken honestly." 💔 pic.twitter.com/rfsIGlOaBC

— ESPN (@espn) April 18, 2025

sry for the bad site, but man Nico is such a shitbag

macmahon goes deep on the dysfunction in the mavs training/medical staff and puts it all at the feet of nico https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/44704219/inside-end-luka-doncic-era-dallas-mavericks

that's a good piece, guess bad people in those positions really fucks a franchise up

mcmahon doing some serious journalism, good stuff

For awhile it felt like the era of horrendously inept front office/ownership ppl sowing chaos and creating fiascos might be coming to an end with everyone investing in analytics depts and stakes for competence getting so high… but ladies and gentlemen i am here to tell you that between Nico Harrison, Mat Ishbia, and the Michael Malone/Calvin Booth feud, happy days are here again. The human ego remains undefeated

lol otm

@tim_cato

Nico: “I did know Luka was important to the fan base. I didn’t know quite to this level.”

also this
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GpD44XbWMAEnomK?format=jpg&name=medium
from this article i cant access:
https://alldlls.com/mavericks-nico-harrison-patrick-dumont-rumors-fire-reporting/

what complete fools. truly

hawks fired landry fields as GM... sure

i feel like that’s as close as we’ll ever get to an apology and admission of regret from nico

maybe like... do a poll to a sample of your fans? you know, maybe a little research.

til i learned that there was someone who thought nico harrison had irreproachable basketball expertise

what complete fools. truly

― slob wizard (J0rdan S.), Monday, April 21, 2025 2:29 PM (thirty-seven minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

seriously unbelievable

how has Harrison not been fired yet lol

bullying/booing works
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Hw9HsVf2bs

get his ass

how has Harrison not been fired yet lol

― lil $CHUB (Spottie), Monday, April 21, 2025 3:30 PM (eighteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

dumonts gotta save face he fires nico now and it looks like he got worked, bet they put someone above nico and let him fade into bolivian

i feel like they’re keeping nico on so as to not be bullied into submission by their fanbase and because the davis/kyrie injuries mean he + they can ostensibly claim that the new vision for the team hasn’t been able to play out yet

i think what would scare me if i was the owner is that nico has been pretty open about not thinking much longer than 3-4 years down the road, just recently replied “i intend to fulfill my contract” (three years) when asked about his long term future with the franchise, and has a demonstrated track record of putting future assets in trades for immediate improvements. so to let that person make even more decisions in that vein seems like a very poor idea when you know you’re at the very least going to be the one person left holding the bag

thats why you gotta give him a boss

feels like one of those situations like the kings & pelicans where they turn to some perceived steady hand, old guy who's been around the block done it before etc who is their joe dumars

they coulda played some of these cards for sure... but once dumont dropped those quotes today you gotta follow that up with a firing, im afraid.

guess nico had another press conference have not checked it out but people are saying its bad

including chuck https://bsky.app/profile/dimeuproxx.bsky.social/post/3lnebxelhg22m

feels like one of those situations like the kings & pelicans where they turn to some perceived steady hand, old guy who's been around the block done it before etc who is their joe dumars

― slob wizard (J0rdan S.), Monday, April 21, 2025 1:02 PM (four hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

this is the way. always works

only his original partner in crime from his playing days can out-dumars the dumars. time to ring up isiah thomas, nico, that'll right the ship

oh man

watched the colorado-dallas hockey game last night. there was a row of guys sitting behind the stars bench all wearing FIRE NICO t-shirts

hollinger on hawks org dysfunction https://archive.ph/7yDi2

If it never totally felt like the Hawks were coming or going the last few years, perhaps there’s a reason: Though Fields was theoretically in charge, the number of competing organizational voices was cacophonous.

Per league sources, owner Tony Ressler’s son Nick has had significant input, and while his day-to-day involvement appeared to lessen this season, I’m told he’s still in the room on any important decision. Coach Quin Snyder, lured from a Costa Rican beach vacation to take over in early 2023, still has significant say (and the salary to prove it). The front office has other voices — such as Saleh, assistant GM Kyle Korver, adviser and former Cavs GM Chris Grant and agent-turned-adviser Chris Emens. And in addition to those I already named, seven other people in basketball operations have VP titles.

end of hoop collective pod today they were talking about how they've already announced that the new GM will have a yet to be hired president of basketball ops above him... red !!FATALLY BAD OWNERSHIP!! sirens going off at deafening levels

yeah whats the point of that even just hire the top guy and let him fill out his staff have a couple holdovers sure why not

lol

FROM SHAMS:

The Milwaukee Bucks and general manager Jon Horst have agreed to a multiyear contract extension, sources tell ESPN. The Bucks and Horst's agent, Brian Elfus, reached a new deal this week for the NBA championship executive and one-time exec of the year before his contract expired.

i guess if ownership made him to do the trades giannis wanted whats he gonna do, now hes going to have the pleasure of trading giannis

happy trails pop. would have been crazy for him to coach again.

best coach in NBA history?

no contest. nearest competition would be red auerbach and he's no match for pops. jackson? riley? karl? can't touch him.

i wanted him to make a comeback :(

happy retirement to the goat

looks like bron is going to miss 0 games

@mcten Story filed to t.co/oAsD1rYqjW: LeBron James suffered a Grade 2 MCL sprain in his left knee from his collision with Donte DiVincenzo in Wednesday’s Game 5, a league source told ESPN. The injury entails a 3-5 week recovery timeline.

i think pop was planning to come back until his most recent fainting spell. i think he realized it was going to be too much to recover in time to dedicate to the grind of a whole season.

mitch johnson goes from interim to permanent head coach, and i'm not sure how i feel about it. not just bc he's young (literally my age i think?) but also most of his coaching experience is limited to "the spurs when they were at their shittiest". a lot to be said of the spurs coaching tree, but most of that tree came from guys who came out of the spurs golden age years.

to be fair, pop was not exactly a battle-tested coach when he appointed himself in 96. and maybe the spurs will be soo good in the future that coaching talent wont be that decisive a factor. maybe he's got the juice. but if the spurs make some big moves this offseason (which i think is plausible) there's going to be a lot more pressure on him to win than on pop 30 years ago.

yeah don’t love not having more of a process for the permanent head coach

looks like bron is going to miss 0 games

@mcten Story filed to t.co/oAsD1rYqjW: LeBron James suffered a Grade 2 MCL sprain in his left knee from his collision with Donte DiVincenzo in Wednesday’s Game 5, a league source told ESPN. The injury entails a 3-5 week recovery timeline.

― lag∞n, Friday, May 2, 2025 10:58 AM (thirty-two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

when he went down i was hoopsplaining to my wife how he always does this and he's never hurt and how ive seen his ankle bone touch hit the ground and he comes back in the same game etc etc. is this his first like kinda big injury?

yea the fact that he's played like 1600 straight games scoring 10+ points is insane for that reason, not once has he landed awkwardly in a way that would cause him to sit out, even when he looks like he's in immense pain he bounces right back, he's just built different I guess

I'm sure he's played through a lot of pain, but he never seems to suffer serious structural damage, the sort of thing requiring surgery. Which is beggars belief, seeing how many games he's played including playoffs.

Which is beggars belief

lol https://bsky.app/profile/johnhollinger.bsky.social/post/3lo7xg2cgfc2s

Aw, Pop.

apparently ishbia put some pal of his in charge of basketball ops, never change

assistant coach on the ishbias michigan st team bunch of mid major college coaching jobs since only nba experience is working in the suns front office the last 11 months

lol

it's so good

LeBron on the media narratives following the Lakers losing to the Timberwolves:

“I’ve definitely learned over the years that teams win championships. Always… I don’t lose sleep over that like, ‘F***, how did me and Luka lose?’ Well, there’s 8 other guys on the floor.”

(via… pic.twitter.com/Ad7OWMEdz7

— Witness King James (@WITNESSKJ) May 8, 2025

the thing about lebron that always kills me is how he takes great pains to create a facade of reflection and magnanimity, but the message is still basically my teammates suck lol. no one like him

He’s an asshole lol

He's petty, calculating and hyper self conscious, loves power plays, backroom politicking and might be the GOAT self promoter (if it's not MJ). Kinda the opposite of Luka, personality wise.

welp

FROM SHAMS:

Two-time NBA MVP Giannis Antetokounmpo has not made any firm decisions, but for the first time in his career, he is open-minded about whether his best fit is remaining in Milwaukee – or playing elsewhere, league sources told ESPN.

Story on ESPN: t.co/2aTg3Bq8o3

i am shocked

werent there quotes from last offseason where he was like starting to soften the blow a bit?

has not made any firm decisions, but for the first time in his career, he is open-minded about whether his best fit is remaining in Milwaukee – or playing elsewhere, league sources told

perhaps not at the level of a true Shamsy contender but this is some typically excellent verbiage. love to be open minded about whether my best fit is remaining where I am

seemingly he has made some decisions, but they aren't firm, yet. I just made some jello and put it in the fridge, but last I checked it wasn't firm, yet.

smart to give everyone the heads up so they can start planning now

spida aggravated ankle injury. officially a GTD for game 5

eesh

a real disaster for the cavs.

folks its the most wonderful time of the year for fans of bad teams

the night to win from losing

all those reps we put in the gym, all the sweat we left out there on the court, all for this moment to get a guy to replace us in the rotation

need an east team to win plzzz

LMAOOOOOOO

if the spurs or mavs win it we riot

cmon charlotte deserves it nice airport

mavs i agree

west is already getting giannis they can’t get flagg too

sad situation for the wizards

if any fanbase deserves it its the mavs

ffs!!!

counterpoint no they dont

agree actually just trying to be nice

shameful that the mavs don’t make nico sit out there

omg lol

1.8% chance to win hmmmmmmmmmmm

unfucking real lol. there is no god

spurs getting dylan harper is gonna be yuuuggggeee

absolutely insane.

jesus christ

rigggged

fire nico before he selects egor demin first overall

absolutely shameful situation diabolical

lmao

Who do the Sixers want at 3?

wtf

disgusting behavior by *checks notes* lottery balls

r/mavericks is absolutely convinced this is rigged lol

League looked deep into the luka deal and found collusion and instead of outing everyone just gifted them the #1 pick

fire nico before he selects egor demin first overall

He’s not planning to be there in 4 years after all

watch him trade for giannis

You know he’s making the call

every team should be calling him yeah

This is gonna put so much pressure on Flagg

he needs to stay in school this is unacceptable

Spurs already drafted ROTY in the previous two drafts. Seems unfair to get #2 again.

I’m liking Thomas Sorber for the hawks at 13

xp life's not fair, god has favorites, etc

interesting choice between harper and edgecomb for the spurs harpers the consensus but feel like edgecomb could be more spursy

yeah will be a tough choice for milwaukee for sure

they have no good young players and no picks for 5 years what exactly would the plan be if they kept Giannis

I meant the spurs are trading that pick to the bucks as part of a giannis deal

def possible

lmao at comment seen online: "Can't wait for Ace Bailey to miss the first three months of the 76ers season with a condition modern medicine wiped out in 1927."

the spurs are going to do whatever pops decides is best for the team going forward. giannis has been in the MVP conversation for about 5 or 6 years running, but if the spurs have to empty the cupboard to get him I'm not convinced that's the smartest direction for them to go.

dallas should trade flagg for giannis

then trade Kuzma for Giannis back

i’m sure he’ll end up on the lakers somehow

shaping up to be worsening disaster for conference parity. mavs get flagg, giannis likely going west, not to mention the celtics situation may be pretty up in the air next year

the east had its 15 minutes of fame already

abolish conferences tbh

Great organization!

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/45167194/suns-being-sued-employee-fourth-seven-months

not totally clear to me when i read that but it looks like most if not all of this is in the ishbia era, yes?

Looked it up, he became owner in Feb 2023 so early in his tenure

kind of amazing that we've seen so many fun suns teams over the years given how awful their ownership regimes have been. i attribute it to purple and orange, inherently fun color scheme

reading sam vecenie's gossip column from the combine and he talks a lot about the spurs deciding between dylan harper and a potential trade for giannis and am i the only one who thinks neither move really makes that much sense for the spurs? can we also all agree that if you gave the spurs front office truth serum at this moment and said that w/ the knowledge of having the no 2 pick you can undo the fox trade no harm no foul... they would right?

he quotes this anon front office exec --

“If the Spurs paired Giannis and Wemby, they would be the favorite to win the title next year,” said one Eastern Conference executive, who was granted anonymity in exchange for his candor. “They’d have two guys who might be top-five players in the league next year on the same team. Plus, they fit. They’d have a dominant defense that no one would be able to score against inside, and they’d have the ability to play five-out in an even more devastating way than the Bucks did with Brook Lopez if they surrounded Giannis and Wemby with the right wings.”

so the plan would be to turn wemby into glorified brook lopez in the third season of his career? that doesn't sound like a bad idea to anyone else? am i the crazy one?

he also writes a lot about how the league values harper at his own tier under flagg and then probably values edgecomb over ace bailey and i'm wondering if people in/around the league are once again not learning the lesson taught to us by the jayson tatum/markelle fultz and then the brandon miller/scoot henderson coin flips

xxp re: fox idk they didn't give up much to get him, was kind of a steal. and maybe he goes out in a giannis deal, and is more attractive to a bucks team that needs to save face from a full post-giannis tank (even if that's not in their best interest)

as for the wemby-giannis pairing, i think they'd figure it out.

everyone said giannis and dame would figure it out too and that never really happened and there doesn't seem to be much critical thought being put into the idea that maybe there is something about the way giannis plays that makes it very difficult to have a co-number 1 player next to him. middleton was like the platonic ideal of a sidekick player

the bucks wanting fox instead of castle or the no 2 pick doesn't really make any sense to me, i think the fanbase would accept a post-giannis rebuilding phase + their GM just got an extension so he shouldn't have to make a short term job saving decision

am i the crazy one?

i'm also skeptical that trading for giannis is the right way to build the spurs for the next stage. i'd be very surprised if popovich pursued that path far enough to get the trade done.

id rather see the spurs continue to build than get giannis its just more interesting to me, harper-edgecomb is an good question, wouldnt be surprised to see edgecomb edge it out haha as the draft process goes on because it tends to favor athletic guys, edgecomb big athletic types are def a more reliable bet than skilled guards, ultimately tho the best thing is a guy who can get a bucket which is just pretty hard to predict, harper is def good at basketball i think hes better than scoot or fultz and hes big too hes actually a little bigger than edgecomb, if edgecomb were a big wing rather than a big guard hed prob go #2 easy

shd add the 2nd generation nba bonus to harper too which i think is like 10%

a team w/ two (well actually three) highly prioritized guards and a franchise center seems to be screaming out for the only high level wing player that will be available to them but maybe i'm just being a slave to "fit"

i dont think hes any more of a wing than castle is

also dont think they should consider fox when making this decision hell be good for them for a couple few years and if someone takes his spot eventually thats fine

so the plan would be to turn wemby into glorified brook lopez in the third season of his career? that doesn't sound like a bad idea to anyone else? am i the crazy one?

― slob wizard (J0rdan S.), Friday, May 16, 2025 2:18 PM (thirty-three minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

i believe you are a dunc'd on listener so no doubt you've heard multiple nate rants about how wemby never did any pick and roll finishing and is already self-pigeonholing as a 3-point shooter. doesn't seem great!

i dont think hes any more of a wing than castle is

― lag∞n, Friday, May 16, 2025 2:53 PM (one minute ago)

i'm talking about ace bailey

oh bailey ok yeah worth thinking about dont think he has as high of a ceiling as the other guys but he could be real nice in his role of shooting the heck out of the ball running around and so forth

has a rep as a low feel guy which is worrying could just be another michael porter jr which i wouldnt be that stoked on but also he could be something inbetween mpj and kevin durant which would be pretty cool

the spurs need to consider that ace is not the nickname of a future all-star. too retro.

harper + castle + fox is just leaving a big looming question over the team's head when they should be striving for clarity on the path forward w/ wemby. they didn't ask to get the no 2 pick so perhaps it's a weirdly unenviable position they find themselves in, just not sure they're in the place to take the best player available and wait for it all to shake out when in reality neither of the 3 guards should even be in control of the ball on that many possessions. i just have trouble envisioning it all playing out smoothly but maybe my imagination is too limited

has a rep as a low feel guy which is worrying could just be another michael porter jr which i wouldnt be that stoked on

i think for teams looking for a face of the franchise 10x all star type player getting MPJ w/ the no 2 overall pick would be a disappointment but the spurs aren't looking for that and in fact have a wide open lane for an MPJ type player to fit seamlessly into what they're building

sure but mpj isnt that good is the thing

when you take a guy with a lower upside high in the draft youre getting their generally lower downside with it, generally not in favor of doing a deandre hunter as it were, having said that there are plenty of people who think ace has star potential im just skeptical

also i think harper and castle is a pretty good fit, castles weird belief that hes a point guard notwithstanding, fox can be a stopgap its fine, now would you take a nice big wing if you could you probably would, is that guy out there idk

ace feels like a high upside/low floor guy to me, if he can't score at a high level he may be out of the league however if he can score at a high level then he is probably an all star

a good avenue for addressing the conundrum of picking best fit vs. best athlete w/ highest potential would be for the spurs to make a pick swap or else its equivalent, such as making the 2 pick for another team, then completing the rest of the trade on draft day.

the low upside/low floor version feels like idk jabari smith jr?

i think ace will almost def stick in the league because hes got the nba body and can shoot, maybe theres some weird thing where he cant actually shoot but i doubt it

his height alone means he'll prob hang around even if he's a bust but if all you can do is score and then you can't score at an effective level then it doesn't leave much for you to fall back on. all that being said i think i'd take him no 2 if i was most teams

i would not be happy taking him at 2 think you gotta try to get a star there, if not trade it

the line between star and not star for guards is kinda thin and a lot of teams get trapped into thinking they have one when they don't (fox, garland etc), just a trap i would be worried about falling into w/ basically any guard i'm picking that high. however those players are helpful, so it's not like it's bad. i just think maybe it's good to pick the tall guys

tall is good but when youre looking at guy where its like scouts have questions about his defense ball handling passing and general feel for the game its kind of worrying

i think ultimately rules of thumb just arent that helpful in a situation where you badly need to find one guy who is good at basketball

now could rules of thumb be useful for people who are idly speculating about the nba draft online, very possible

i guess it's ultimately a question of whether you think his feel for the game can improve which i think is hard to measure from our perspective. we have seen these debates between flawed wings and supposedly potential superstar guards end up being adjudicated in one direction as of late

rockets took jalen green over evan mobley and scottie barnes, that was a bad idea

I know nothing about these college guys other than I have read in the last 3 days after the Sixers got the 3rd pick.

Based on that, I think I like Edgecomb the best. How is his handle and feel for the game compared to Harper and Bailey?

Bailey scares me a little bit because his TS% is not materially better than Edgecombe but Edgecombe shoots 78% from the line and Bailey only shoots 69% from the line. Bailey is almost a year younger.

the thing with the big wing archetype is to my mind *hubie voice* what youre looking at is a two way player, thats the baseline youre building off of, ace isnt that hes a shooter youre taking a shooter and saying youre going to develop the rest of his game idk i just dont love it

and yeah aces shooting stats arent actually that good but his shot does look amazing he can do advanced off the dribble movement stuff which is pretty sick for a college freshman, ft% is worrying but otoh he didnt take very many, which is worrying

harper has more james harden like measurables so if he really is that dude then you can potentially do a lot of interesting things next to him

i think taking edgecomb over bailey would be borderline insane tho

edgecomb is a freak tho, he was balling out against grown men in olympic qualifying before he ever hit college

i like this draft guy btw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YRv6Uh0S8M

it's hard to evaluate bailey and harper using their college performances because they were basically playing on a high school team and facing big ten defenses that were 100% keyed on them. harper was a more consistent producer than bailey but bailey had moments of looking unstoppable.

Thanks ILHers - I am not a true hoophead.

It's a shame McCann got hurt. It would have been nice to see a larger sample size of him to make sure he wasn't just on a heater.

Harper might be nice. He has size, which makes him easier to play next to Maxey.

Who am I kidding? The Sixers need help pretty much everywhere other than halfcourt center (and might need help there, too).

VJ is a crazy athlete but a 6' 4" combo guard idk just feel like those guys kinda hit a ceiling and can kinda be constraining on your roster. it's actually better if he's a pure role player who can play defense and doesn't need the ball a ton as opposed to guys like idk anfernee simons on the lower end or tyler herro on the higher end, but if you're just taking a nice role playing guard in the top 3...?

i think mccain is legit he was so good right away

if he's i.e. jalen suggs w/ the balance of skills tipped a bit more towards offense and less towards defense that is a pretty good player, i'm a big suggs fan and was saying i'd take him at no 2 in that draft but the two teams that passed over him for bigger players undoubtedly made the right calls

i mean there are good guards in the nba they exist and there are bad wings

I loved that video on Bailey until they got to the part about playmaking and compared him to Wiseman, Wiggins, Okafor, and Jabari Parker.

yeeah

but wiggins is a great example of how wing players can be kinda disappointing at the top end but also very helpful in winning a championship. MPJ too! parker tore the same ACL twice in like his first three seasons in the league so idk how relevant his career is as a comparison point but he still hung around the league getting minutes much longer than guys like wiseman and okafor

i think its generally accepted that big wings have especially desirable qualities, everyone kinda knows that, its been factored in already

and yet people are still saying they'd take the 6'4 (VJ) guy over the 6'7 guy so maybe not

well there is another aspect which is specific knowledge of the players, you should look into it

or perhaps people are too confident in thinking they know how their careers are going to play out and defaulting to the wing over the guard is the smarter bet

a big aspect of the bailey evaluation will be talking to him and understanding if he's an egotistical stubborn chucker, i'd def steer clear of those kinda guys. however i will not be speaking to him so from my outside perspective if i was placing a bet there seems to be a lot of recent evidence that you should prob go w/ the taller guy

which is all to say that i hope the sixers do indeed take another guard, i think that's a great idea especially if you already have two guards at the center of your franchise

or perhaps people are too confident in thinking they know how their careers are going to play out and defaulting to the wing over the guard is the smarter bet

― slob wizard (J0rdan S.), Friday, May 16, 2025 4:12 PM (thirty-eight seconds ago) bookmarkflaglink

youre taking the work other people have done looking at the specific players who are considered the top prospects based on their very individual qualities and being like id take the tall guy which i mean fine i get it

i trust that when people say harper is in a second tier unto himself that such a claim is accurate. however VJ vs bailey seems to be much more of an open debate and having seen some of both guys combined w/ the recent history of these kinda either/or decisions i'm on team ace is all

there's a lot of exciting stuff about edgecomb however if you are 6' 4" and can't play PG full time your paths to being truly great are much more limited than if you're a 6' 7" small forward

sure but theres a lot of easily accessible other information about those players available too

what's the information out there about VJ and ace that i'm currently missing in this discussion, you seem to be alluding to something

anything thats not one is taller than the other i guess

Sixers fans are split over Ace Bailey. But @DraftExpress? “I love Ace Bailey…if I’m Philadelphia I’m 100% drafting him 3rd.” https://t.co/AZozErckxb pic.twitter.com/dwZZksgHEo

— Kevin O'Connor (@KevinOConnorNBA) May 16, 2025

givony pounding the drum for bailey at 3 btw, he also was one of the guys who had miller over scoot when other ppl were saying that scoot is the next derrick rose ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

how many wings were taken ahead of jalen brunson

im sure we could sit around here all day and cherry pick but it doesnt get you any cherries

garland is certainly not without his flaws but uh

https://i.imgur.com/n6HTv1E.png

zion and ja taken 1,2 there just to save anyone from looking it up

that one looks fine..... except we'll see which of the two guys between garland and hunter is actually still on the cavs next season. and this playoffs not really helping the case that garland is actually more valuable than hunter, however for the regular season the case is pretty clear

the brunson draft is a funny one to look back on in light of this discussion. colin sexton went immediately ahead of mikael bridges, shai, miles bridges, and MPJ (and kevin knox hehe but i'll take that 4 out of 5)

choosing trae young over luka prob one of the single most catastrophic draft decisions in NBA history and the size of each player is not irrelevant in the discussion as to why

this playoffs not really helping the case that garland is actually more valuable than hunter

― slob wizard (J0rdan S.), Friday, May 16, 2025 4:39 PM (one minute ago) bookmarkflaglink

im sorry youre way off the rails here

Sixers need a home run to salvage or rebound from the Embiid years so maybe Bailey is the right move for them (higher ceiling).

J0rdan is convincing me.

Like, if they strike out on this draft pick my guess is they are going to be back in the lottery within a couple of years once Embiid and PG age out (if they haven't already).

as a celtics fan im visualizing the maxey mccain bailey perimeter defense

hush

there's actually a lot of evidence across sports that teams screw up in the draft bcuz they think they see something special in a player thru the scouting process when actually they would be better to just defaulting to stuff like "one guy is bigger than the other"

so the nba draft should just be comprised of the tallest people in the world in order

vecenie was saying that he thinks it's possible the sixers pick knueppel at 3, he is a 6' 7" wing however i would not advise that

well actually i would, because it's the sixers. but for other teams i would not

luka donic is tall but theres this other guy who is even taller

https://i.imgur.com/s2TEcLn.png

there's kinda just no evidence that you can be 6' 4" not playing point guard and be really awesome in the NBA. you're just inherently a role player. you can still be a really good role player, but it kinda just is what it is. and i don't hear anyone saying they think edgecomb can play point guard?

you could maybe not play maxey, mccain and bailey together. however you definitely cannot play maxey, mccain and edgecomb together

picture if you will jrue holiday with more creation skills who can jump out of the gym thats prob edgecombs ceiling would you call him a role player

yeah! jrue holiday is a really good role player but when he was the no 2 scoring option on a team w/ anthony davis they could barely get out of the first round

jrue holiday is multiple allstar who was the second best player on a championship team, that doesnt fit into anyone except i guess your definition of a role player

well, jrue has been at best the third best player on two title teams which is great but he also played 11 seasons w/ extremely minimal team success before getting there

it is a suspect record for a tennis player def

btw dying to hear who you think was in the running for the third best player on that bucks team

well no i'm saying that jrue was at best the third best player bcuz at that juncture middleton was still clearly the better player, to me

when i've watched edgecomb he's reminded me a lot of like eric bledsoe. small athletic raw talent. VJ is taller so that prob isn't quite right... you see victor oladipo brought up a lot as a comp? the highest of the high end would be westbrook or something?

btw i've read some stuff that is optimistic about ace's defensive potential. the fact that he literally never passes the ball is def scary i won't say otherwise but i think the idea that he will just never be good on defense is a misperception

this is j kyle mann from the ringer who i think is pretty good on college guys

The worries about Bailey’s limitations in the face of pressure will be lessened if he creates a positive trade-off on the defensive end. Luckily, he’s already started on that path. He can really contort and sit as low as necessary to move with smaller handlers while also extending to dissuade would-be shooters as he’s closing on them. His supplemental rim protection is rare for a player of his size and offensive potential. Ace may be best suited to follow the example of Jaden McDaniels and leverage his physical tools to become a defensive terror—only, with much, much more to offer on offense. He still has the upside to develop into a primary option on offense, but if that doesn’t pan out, becoming a rangy merchant of havoc isn’t a bad fallback option.

a big aspect of the bailey evaluation will be talking to him and understanding if he's an egotistical stubborn chucker, i'd def steer clear of those kinda guys. however i will not be speaking to him so from my outside perspective if i was placing a bet there seems to be a lot of recent evidence that you should prob go w/ the taller guy

― slob wizard (J0rdan S.), Friday, May 16, 2025 1:14 PM (thirteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

he had a press conference recently where he was like yeah you might think they are bad shots but I practice them actually

in conclusion the scouting on ace bailey is a land of contrasts

when i've watched edgecomb he's reminded me a lot of like eric bledsoe. small athletic raw talent. VJ is taller so that prob isn't quite right... you see victor oladipo brought up a lot as a comp? the highest of the high end would be westbrook or something?

― slob wizard (J0rdan S.), Friday, May 16, 2025 5:05 PM (ten seconds ago) bookmarkflaglink

the thing with guys who have elite athleticism and that dog is that its raises their ceiling, i would be surprised if he turned into a not crazy westbrook who can shoot but its not impossible, more likely hes more of an all around guy and secondary creator, could see him as a really high level second banana

all the feel/dog stuff being so bad with ace passing defense shot selection just idk

he had a press conference recently where he was like yeah you might think they are bad shots but I practice them actually

― brony james (k3vin k.), Friday, May 16, 2025 5:12 PM (three minutes ago)

tough shotmaking is a valuable skill actually i would suggest watching the NBA playoffs, i think it's one of those things where if you have a good organization you can potentially harness these skills for good. but if he went to a place like the hornets or wizards i would be scared

i agree that tough shot making is very good and the real positive thing about ace is how advanced his shooting bag is for someone his age all the off the dribble and motion stuff he has is very impressive, however with future great nba scorers you really want to see them dominating by getting easy shots in college, people are excusing ace cause his teammates were bad but he had harper, and even so you just dont want to see guys have to take a ton of difficult shots in college you want to see a man amongst boys type stuff just getting whatever they want, because if you have to take tough shots in college what shots are you going to get against nba players, tho tbf some can be forgiven for freshmen

have heard givony say that baylor was kinda awful this year and in particular had really poor spacing which complicates a lot of the offensive numbers on VJ. college basketball is kinda just terrible really

it is but still youd like to see him out there bossing just cause hes that good

the ace edgecomb comparison is interesting in that ace is more likely to have an elite nba skill but hes also more likely to have weaknesses that get him played off the court, i would generally say draft for the upside with ace but its not like edgecomb is capped he has upside too, imagining say a 75% outcome for both of them edgecomb is a secondary creator all around solid guy who does a bit of everything, ace is mpj who never had back surgery, theyre both prob guys who could sneak into an allstar game but are really one step bellow

he had a press conference recently where he was like yeah you might think they are bad shots but I practice them actually

― brony james (k3vin k.), Friday, May 16, 2025 5:12 PM (three minutes ago)

tough shotmaking is a valuable skill actually i would suggest watching the NBA playoffs, i think it's one of those things where if you have a good organization you can potentially harness these skills for good. but if he went to a place like the hornets or wizards i would be scared

― slob wizard (J0rdan S.), Friday, May 16, 2025 2:19 PM (fifteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I agree with that and am not taking a side, was just providing a logical follow-up to your hypothetical question

i feel like ace and VJ are likely role player/second bananas at best and the wing is just always going to be the easier fit however if one is way better than the other than the argument is moot. such is why the draft is hard

some people actually know but there are five of them and they work for nba teams

i think where the wing being an easier fit breaks down is if the wing cant defend, bad defenders are by nature hard to fit, same thing with bad shooters

i do think tho that it's easier to become kinda passable on defense or at least "get in the way" when you're tall vs when you're short an example i would cite from my own personal experience would be that duncan robinson isn't a good defender but he doesn't get picked on in the same way tyler herro does simply bcuz he's tall even tho he's a much worse athlete

drafting success has become harder as the top draftees have become younger and younger. it does help offset their youth somewhat now that early promise attracts more intensive individual skills coaching, especially in europe.

if you simply refuse to give effort on defense and/or can't understand the basic mental side of it then being tall doesn't matter but again there seems to be optimism that ace can at least get to "not killing you" on defense

ace def has the physical tools to defend, good chance based on what hes done so far that hes not a great reader of the game, that is something one can improve on tho

many xps to tha spurs discussion, i do believe that the spurs would nix the fox trade if they knew they were going to get harper. but their current roster is not a bad problem to have imo.

im a harper believer. he's a huge guard who can finish at the rim well without relying on elite athleticism. i think he's smart and crafty and when he goes left you squint and see manu. his c&s 3s are good, and i think a lot of his shooting shortcomings (which are a bit overblown) came from rutgers' nonexistent offensive system. he compares favorably to cade and would be a great #2 scoring option long-term.

i think the issue around fit is shortsighted. there are 96 minutes to go around for their two guard positions, so fox, castle, and harper can all get significant minutes. harper can lead the bench as a 6th man to start his career and take over as starter. his and castle's size give them some flexibility that all three of them could play together in certain lineups. fox is not a long-term guy here, but having harper and castle as two strong 6'6" guards with off and on ball skills to play throughout wemby's career is very dope and exciting.

obv wemby being so good means you wanna accelerate things a bit (ie fox trade) but the giannis trade package would decimate what little rotation they have and likely clear out whatever draft capital they'd need to get players to fill in. in the immediate term, giannis-wemby-fox(?)-castle(?) would be a hell of a defensive group, but giannis has a ton of miles on his body and has missed significant playoff time the last few years. there's no guarantee harper becomes an all-star, but there's also no guarantee that giannis stays healthy enough and the spurs roll deep enough to sustain multiple title runs. i'd sooner bet on harper-castle-wemby as a big three with more possible draft swings to come (atl swap in 26, pick in 27, multiple swaps in the future) as a long-term foundation. they've been smart and patient under brian wright and with a few exceptions have drafted well.

fox is max eligible this offseason and has said he wants to sign an extension there so him not being in their longterm plans would be, i think, news to him

my thing w/ castle, fox, and harper is mostly just that even if it was only harper and castle you'd have to calibrate it carefully so that they could both develop on the ball. but then you add in fox, who has to establish his own chemistry w/ wemby after playing very few games together, plus vassell who was hurt last year and presumably will be more involved immediately next season. it's just a lot.

but i would agree that these are good problems

speaking of players not in their longterm plans you'd have to think vassell is not on the team for much longer

fox i'd pencil in as "medium-term" (3-4 years), someone who raises their floor as their young guys grow.

vassell does seem like hes plateaued, tho he did start the year hurt this season and never rounded into form. my hope for him is that with so many ball-dominant players on the team he can settle into a more defined role as a shooter and save some energy for his d which seemed positive early in his career but took a hit as he became more of a focal point of the offense. he's the obvious trade target (along with keldon johnson) since he makes a decent salary but its mostly flat or declining over the years.

im hoping they can address some of their wing/forward needs with that #14 pick. they need shooters and a real backup big to round things out.

if the spurs are gonna trade for any giannis or giannis-like player vassell almost has to be part of the trade for salary reasons

yeah its a given, and hes good enough to have value for a lot of teams who need a third scorer with outside range. i still hope he turns it around for us, though.

choosing trae young over luka prob one of the single most catastrophic draft decisions in NBA history and the size of each player is not irrelevant in the discussion as to why

― slob wizard (J0rdan S.)

I think this gets to one of my biggest disagreements with you. This size of each player is the only reason the trade sucked

cool that in just a couple of years we will know who the good draft picks are

seems like a draft that has a lot of high level role players but not much real star power

tre johnson, edgecombe, and bailey all have some allstar upside imo.

as far as guys who could score a lot anyway.

the youtubers have a plan

https://i.imgur.com/2vPRmE7.png

https://i.imgur.com/99Q8TLW.png

https://i.imgur.com/yZr9IlU.png

I’m in the offseason and I don’t like it

its the offs :) eason :(

im the guy whose rebuild plan is changing from green to black uniforms

foolproof plan

so, the miami heat legend disapora (dwyane wade and udonis haslem) have been ummm very pointed in their public criticisms of jimmy butler recently... i don't think wade is necessarily wrong but this was kinda shocking to me and seems to reveal some of the deeper fissures that were happening behind the scenes

“I didn’t like…the way he just approached the game,” Wade said. “I know Jimmy is a pass-first guy. I know he’s about getting his teammates the ball and wanting to see them shine. But it’s a point where…this ain’t working. You gotta go. He wouldn’t look at the basket, and I’ve seen this before. I’ve seen it in a Heat jersey. And so, in a sense, when Pat [Riley] come out, Pat say, ‘We ain’t wanna give you the extension,’ it’s not always because of injuries. Sometimes it’s, ‘I need to see what you gonna do in every moment, not just in one moment.’

the jimmy playoff narrative has gotten a bit muddled recently -- have read people say that he hasn't been the same since the bucks series, which does line up w/ him hurting his ankle in game 1 of the subsequent second round series vs the knicks. but people seem to have forgotten that he was completely dominant in first two games of the ECF vs boston in the next round, i think because grant williams fell off the face of the earth people forget that whole showdown but there were back to back center cut playoff jimmy games at the opening of that series. but from *that* point forward, i'm not sure what has happened -- he shot 50% or better only 2 out of the final 10 playoff games that year and started to slip into that mode where it seemed like he was making pointed decisions to not take the game over. like we are all looking at him standing by a switch waiting for him to flip it the other way but he just chooses not to? after he hurt his ass in game 2 this year he took fewer than 15 shots in 6 of the final 9 games

he could barely run up the court and wasnt hammering into contact like he usually does. im sure scared to fall on it again... he did a couple times and you could tell he was in fear of doing it more. but there were def too many times he should just pulled up from 8 feet but decided to pivot and kick out to like... dray or gp2 or podz all of whom id much rather have a semi contested/open jimmmy pullup vs them open from three. it looked good in the reg season cos he was kicking it out to post when he was hitting, and podz when he was hitting and moody when he was hitting and curry. but in these games he def needed to pull more. the less free throw attempts makes sense with the ass injury but he coulda still taken at least 5 more shots a game pretty easily, they really needed it.

on top of that he's def older and in a different phase of his career. just not gonna be able to have it every night and conserving himself from game to game or quarter to quarter.

these wade and haslem comments def seem like a coordinated attack

they really do haha

idc about fake trades but the beginning of this haberstroh column has some interesting stuff

https://sports.yahoo.com/nba/article/knicks-trade-ideas-giannis-kd-a-mavs-deal-3-moves-that-can-get-new-york-over-the-top-190720651.html

In the six games, the 7-foot Towns registered one block. It’s the first time since blocks became an official stat in the 1970s that a center registered one block or fewer in the conference finals while playing at least 200 minutes in the series, per Stathead.com tracking.

The fact is the Knicks just spent $152 million on a lineup that yielded the second-worst defense in the conference finals since NBA lineup tracking began in 2008. The lineup of Brunson, Bridges, Hart, Anunoby and Towns hemorrhaged 126.1 points per 100 possessions to the Pacers, the second-most points allowed per possession among the 63 lineups with at least 50 minutes played in the past 18 conference finals.

the incestuousness of this team is fascinating, i'd be really shocked if they did anything other than bring back their guys. i think it's funny that tom notes that bridges is the only non-CAA client in their starting line up and also the only one who said anything about how thbis uses his players

getting giannis while keeping brunson and one of og/bridges seems like it would be pretty awesome. i wouldn't be surprised if they run it back, thibs included. leon rose is obviously unafraid to make big moves, though

dont think they have the stuff to get giannis

yeah it is unlikely. giannis would have to specifically request to be traded there and they would need a third team

even if giannis requests a trade somewhere the bucks have no reason to humor him, someones going to offer an absolute haul

i also question whether brunson + giannis actually makes sense as a pairing. we've seen the bucks succeed when giannis is the clear lead offensive engine surrounded by a secondary wing scorer who doesn't need the ball and 3 and D role players. the bucks were less successful when they hollowed out their roster in order to pair giannis w/ a co no 1 scorer in order to achieve a "higher ceiling." the way brunson plays and the way giannis plays do not converge in my head

i think giannis will be able to "approve" his destination but i think the CBA rules have made trading way too difficult for a guy to just pick a team and tell the two sides to figure it out

giannis is a tougher fit than youd think for someone as good as him and then yeah hes tough to trade for too cause of the big contract and the team needing to still be good once they give up so much to get him will be interesting to see where he lands

if you want giannis on the knicks the trade that actually may make the most sense is keeping OG, KAT, and hart as the role player structure and making brunson & bridges the centerpiece of the deal. but we know the knicks are not ready for that conversation...

otm. I can’t see Brunson and Giannis working, especially if towns is gone. Not nearly enough spacing for a team that already shoots too few 3s

where should giannis go

hmmm I think Denver is probably the most fair

giannis for naji marshall straight up

sorry there are only so many Nico Harrisons in the league

Jalen Johnson + stuff for Giannis?

hot take: giannis should stay in milwaukee forever

Thibs fired

ya it was time. tough business.

curious who they go after. malone is obviously right there, but he's maybe too similar?

i saw someone mention jay wright, which, lol

ok so those bridges & KAT extensions are right around the corner

shame, get your team to their first ecf in 25 years and lose your job as reward

Thibs obviously has his issues, but I don't know if another coach is teaching KAT and Brunson how to play D, which was a lot of the problem.

i think the thinking is to get a coach that can get them to play better offense

Yeah, that's definitely not Thibs, lol.

can’t let a little ecf appearance deter you from what you wanted to do anyway

there was a long postmortem gossipy type story in the athletic that noted that despite mikael bridges complaining publicly about how many minutes thibs plays his guys the knicks were one of the healthiest teams in the league and their main 5 guys never got hurt

however i found it interesting that there was no attempted connection made between thibs' philosophy on minutes and the fact that the knicks starting 5 was the second worst defensive line up in ECF history or whatever it was that haberstroh noted, or that in game 6 the knicks could barely do basic stuff like dribble, keep possession of the ball, run back on defense etc. obv there are structural defensive issues w/ their line up but maybe not running your guys into the ground is a good idea idk

seems like the regular season is a better time than the ECF to figure out some effective bench rotations

i think the thinking is to get a coach that can get them to play better offense

― lil $CHUB (Spottie), Tuesday, June 3, 2025 4:20 PM (five hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

bud

i want them to get nash so lebron has to find another pod partner again

the bron pod coaching tree

feel like jj could find room for thibs on his staff

Apparently Thibs was once engaged to be married and broke it off because he thought he wouldn't be able to focus enough on basketball. And now he looks like the most miserable man on earth, and for what? One ring, and it ain't a wedding ring.

literally married 2 tha game

I’m pretty stoked about the teams in the finals because I really like the style of ball. The fun part is how fast it is. Swarming defense, fast breaks off makes, just constantly running. The knicks are the opposite of that with kat and Brunson. Not sure any coach is getting back to the ecf with this lineup

Sadly, I'll miss the first 4 games of the Finals. I'll not only be in the Irish time zone, but in no position to watch games in the middle of the night or time shift my viewing to a more convenient hour. I'm hoping the series is close and I can watch games 5,6 or 7 when I return.

^ that probably belonged in the Finals thread.

next time just say you're going into offseason mode

kd trade rumors swirling in the direction of tejas (hou or sa)

@ShamsCharania

Just In: The Phoenix Suns are hiring Cleveland Cavaliers assistant Jordan Ott as the franchise's new head coach, sources tell ESPN. Ott has been an NBA assistant since 2012 and has a strong background of offensive and defensive creativity, player development and communication.

my advice would be to rent

yeah that might be the most unstable coaching position in the league

clears up johnnie bryant for the knicks job, if that's the way they want to go

good luck jordan ott

he’s jordan ott i’m jordan itt

my advice would be to rent

― slob wizard (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, June 4, 2025 11:57 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

a lease is too much of a commitment, i'd just ask ishbia if i could crash at his place for a while

Find out your fired when your stuff is on the curb.

you're (ugh)

he’s jordan ott i’m jordan itt

― slob wizard (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, June 4, 2025 10:59 AM (fifty-four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

lol

nice

good luck, jordan otm

ishbia accomplishing remarkable things

@NateDuncanNBA

Assuming the Suns don't trade Devin Booker, Jordan Ott will be Devin Booker's 7th (!) non-interim coach in Phoenix.

That ties the all-time record for most coaches in a tenure with a team.

i bet this is the coach that gets it done

feel like ott could survive if they trade kd

they will, they will trade him to the spurs who will become a title contender immediately without sacrificing any of their big future assets

he will survive, but only bc he has access to good health care (he will get fired bc the suns are cursed)

whats the kd trade look like

he’s jordan ott i’m jordan itt

― slob wizard (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, June 4, 2025 10:59 AM (five hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

lol

i swear the suns are paying salaries for like 5 of those coaches still

looked it up and its actually 4 haha

Monty Williams, Frank Vogel, Mike Budenholzer and now Jordan Ott

the monty suns era feels like it happened 10 years ago

coach of the year just 3 seasons ago lol

is it fair to say that Budenholzer a terrible coach who survived in Milwaukee by outcoaching Monty Williams for exactly four finals games? Which of course the Phx front office was too dumb to realize when they hired him

i think bud is a good coach in the regular season at least he has had his struggles in the playoffs which tbf is considered the most important part

tho i mean those atl teams were over achievers with no star power and then giannis also maybe has some playoff issues not like hes bad a or a choker but just can get slowed down by good teams due to not having all the counters and isnt the ideal crunch time player has trouble shooting fts things that matter in a tight series

none of the bucks teams were really stacked they had good rosters but it was never like holy shit look at all these guys

as for the suns thats just a huge fiasco not really his fault prob

in conclusion bud is a pretty good coach not without flaws not bad tho

the knicks will prob be a little bit better with him but theyll lose in the second round and people will think theyre worse

good luck suns

According to another source, Ishbia emailed the Suns basketball operations team internally on Wednesday, taking accountability for not doing enough to establish a culture and identity in Phoenix. The Suns owner stated that he tried “running the typical NBA owner playbook” of “hiring experts, signing checks and getting out of the way,” but no one was happy with the outcome.

Now, despite insisting that he is not reviewing film, designing offenses or running the draft room, Ishbia intends to be “extremely active in the decisions and management.” He acknowledged his more unconventional approach as an owner is to ensure the Suns get back to the requisite level of winning that’s been absent the last few years.

https://gophnx.com/phoenix-hires-jordan-ott-suns-head-coach-4-year-deal/

bud and thibs are pretty similar in that both were considered cutting several micro eras of the league ago and they’re still smart coaches but schematically were not really able to evolve beyond the style that that first made them successful and were also not the types to be experimental. there was always the stuff about how the bucks never really experimented with switching in the regular season and things of that nature

Now, despite insisting that he is not reviewing film, designing offenses or running the draft room, Ishbia intends to be “extremely active in the decisions and management.” He acknowledged his more unconventional approach as an owner is to ensure the Suns get back to the requisite level of winning that’s been absent the last few years.

I don't see how this can fail

Ishbia hilarious man

my impression of Bud with Milwaukee is he was a pretty good regular season coach but he was not particularly good at making adjustments in the playoffs over a series, we'd get exploited a ton doing the same things over and over again and honestly it probably cost 'em a ring when they lost to Toronto

"the requisite level of winning" is really funny nonsense phrasing

you want some funny nonsense phrasing, just noticed this gem in shams' article about ott:

He's known around the NBA as ... someone who spends an incredible amount of time studying trends and pathways to adjust based on new patterns, sources said.

sure, there are plenty of coaches who study trends and pathways to adjust based on new patterns. but ott spends an incredible amount of time doing so. at least according to my sources

If there is one thing every ambitious assistant coach in a potentially lucrative sport like hoops (or football) does, it is spend incredible amounts of time looking for an edge that will bring enough success to set them apart and let them rise to ahead coach position -- where they will continue to spend an incredible amount of time looking for a competitive edge. That's the job description.

Not one Chris Ott reference?

6.3/10 reference

Fair

Lol I tried but couldn't get a good one

@ShamsCharania

Just In: The Phoenix Suns are hiring Cleveland Cavaliers assistant Jordan Ott as the franchise's new head coach, sources tell ESPN. Ott has been an NBA assistant since 2012 and has a strong background of offensive and defensive creativity, player development and communication.

― lil $CHUB (Spottie), Wednesday, June 4, 2025 11:42 AM (three days ago) bookmarkflaglink

Shams reporting it's a 4-year deal, 94k base plus full bennies per year

lol

94k?!

94k + Bennies

free basketballs

dont forget the exposure

lol ums

@ShamsCharania

Cleveland Cavaliers star Darius Garland underwent surgery to repair great toe injury and will be sidelined approximately 4 to 5 months.

doesnt sound like that great of a toe

if my math checks out he should be ready by start of the season-ish, yeah?

94k + Bennies

I get this reference lol

Knicks formally reached out to Rockets for permission to talk to head coach Ime Udoka and Rockets denied permission, per people familiar with Rockets’ stance. @MikeFrancesa said Knicks reached out to Minnesota and were denied permission to talk to Chris Finch. The Athletic’s @KellyIko reported last week that Rockets had no interest in entertaining any Udoka-to-NY scenario.

ian begley from the bad website

normal coaching search so far

it does make sense to check on proven successful nba coaches before turning to first-time coaches and retreads (bud, vogel, etc)

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/45489578/sources-knicks-request-speak-udoka-finch-denied

Kidd denied as well

it does make sense to check on proven successful nba coaches before turning to first-time coaches and retreads (bud, vogel, etc)

― gestures broadly at...everything (voodoo chili), Wednesday, June 11, 2025 6:53 AM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

The odds of any of these requests being granted were literally zero

you don’t know until you ask (especially when the mavs are involved)

Demarcus Cousins slapped a fan in a Puerto Rican league game

boogie straight up snapped. they threw stuff on him on the way out the tunnel and he completely unhinged luckily there was enough people to hold him back.

the thing w/ the knicks coaching search is that there aren't any other jobs open so i don't think there is any harm in going on fishing expeditions, they're not losing out on other potential candidates

it just makes them look ridiculous and doesnt get them any closer to their goal of hiring a coach

the first part is not a real concern, maybe the second part is true but maybe not

knicks do a big public breakup and immediately start asking their hottest friends if they also want to break up with their current partners, classic

feels like a ownership idea

who are the over achieving teams this year lets get their coaches, exactly the coaches youll never be able to get, if it was a front office idea im sure they could backchannel it so their name wasnt in the news but dolans like youll never know unless you ask

yeah they said no

ok well we can cross that one off then

@ShamsCharania
ESPN reporting: The Phoenix Suns and Kevin Durant’s business partner, Rich Kleiman, are sorting through trade options - with interested teams mainly featuring Houston, San Antonio, Minnesota, Miami and New York.

interesting list -- don't think houston or san antonio make sense, personally. the knicks don't make sense unless they're breaking up their team, which i don't see happening. the wolves do make sense however have lots of moving parts. heat don't really have any fit or timeline concerns to worry about but only have enough trade ammo to maybe make one move

meanwhile in nuggets non-news, they still don’t have a general manager. they don’t have a draft pick this year anyway, but it’s prime tampering season and you’d think they would want to have someone in charge…

will be interesting to see what the suns get for kd he can make sense for a lot of teams if the price isnt too high, tho technical details of trade regulations are obvs a hurdle

knicks are apparently out on durant

apparently hes saying he wants to go to spurs

spurs have to pick a direction

still working the phones

FROM SHAMS:

Another one: The New York Knicks have requested permission to speak with Atlanta Hawks head coach Quin Snyder, but were firmly denied, sources tell ESPN.

i bet the suns would give the knicks a coach they should call the suns

saw someone joke that the bucks asked permission for the knicks to speak with doc rivers but the knicks said no

kd to spurs is actually perfect, gives them a lil window (probably 1-3 years) with fox-wemby-kd as the features with plenty of great young talent in castle and presumably harper, if they add a couple of vets using their MLE they can contend right away. when kd retires, harper and castle will be ready for bigger roles, can potentially flip fox at that point.

vassell the 14th pick some bad future 1st and filler?

yeah, most likely the vassell+14th is the core of the deal, either barnes or keldon to make salaries work, plus whatever low-risk draft picks/swaps. spurs can part with a lot of 2nd rounders (they have i think 16) and they have a lot of 1st round swaps they can offer (which if the spurs and suns continue on their trajectories will probably not convey)

idk i still have trouble seeing the wisdom in trying to compete w/ fox and KD while at the same time trying to develop two top 5 picks who need the ball in their hands in order to realize their potential. i think i'd question whether fox and KD is the best thing for wemby's development, let alone the other two guys. oh and also the spurs coach is a newbie whose ability to balance all of this is an open question

to me, if the spurs want to win right now then they should put the number 2 pick in play and go for a bigger fish than KD, or at least a younger star who could conceivably grow with wemby beyond two or three seasons. if they think the number 2 pick is so valuable that it can't be traded, then i think they need to take it slow and develop their young players more directly. to trade for KD and pick harper in the hopes of having it all runs the risk of accomplishing neither goal of winning anything meaningful in the short term or developing the young players into all stars

it just sort of feels like fox fell into their laps and then the second pick fell into their laps and now KD is potentially falling into their laps and none of it seems like the execution of any sort of actual plan to me, and for that reason i would be worried

the secret to the spurs success is always been "good shit happened to us for no reason"

get #1 pick for d rob, now alla sudden good
oh no he injured but then get #1 pick again for duncan
oh no d rob old and broken thats ok, two late drafted foreign guys are all stars
oh no aging core is aging, thats ok a mid-1st rounder with questionable jumpshot is now michael jordan
oh no his uncle is mad thats ok get #1 pick again

this is not a master plan, this is just god's favor

like fox and kd wanting to come down to our overheated suburban sprawl tourist trap to play with wemby, i think you just put your hands together and say thanks and figure out how to make it work

I agree with Jordan but i appreciate bison’s hubris

kinda agree with bise here having things fall into your lap is a good thing, with the caveat that idk what the contract/cap situation would be with with kd and fox going forward, also kds teams tend to turn into bummer situations

kd and wemby the two freakiest looking aliens on one team would be insane visually im here for it.

true there is the freak aspect to consider

are the spurs with KD guaranteed to be a top 6 seed in the west next year?

yes

there you go

I would say yes without question honestly. they’ll be in that mix even if they just run it back. wemby is ready

I do think they should try to move off of one of their guards tho, fox preferably imo

wow any ideas where youd like to see him land

lol no agenda I just don’t think hes that good

he will be a tremendous third option with kd and wemby

well that is true

jordan s. for knicks coach imo

https://i.postimg.cc/YqgFMqmY/Screenshot-20250612-071049.png

hahahah MORE MORE MORE

https://www.chicitysports.com/chicago-bulls-billy-donovan-knicks

Sucks that they missed out on Thibs. He would be perfect for them.

is this normal? maybe teams do this all the time but it doesn't leak for whatever reason?

Jord maybe right that this pursuing of currently employed coaches doesn't matter, but it doesn't look great imo and the coaching community is definitely a fraternity and it's my impression that Thibs is pretty well liked.

at the end of the day, it's an NBA coaching position and there aren't many opportunities so they'll get someone with potential I'm sure.

however, for a coach who feels like he's either in a good position now, or will have opportunities in the future, firing Thibs after this season would have to make you think. The message is clear - you have to win an NBA championship in the next couple season, period.

Obviously the Wolves went through all the ups and downs of the Thibs experience (with extra Jimmy Buckets drama thrown in), the whole floor raiser/can he win a championship thing, the minutes grind, not using the bench, sometimes inflexibility etc. But, the fact is that most coaching tenures are far less successful than Thibs has been in New York, so you're walking into a situation with insanely high expectations and a roster (IMO) that might not be quite at the level. If you're coach and you see Thibs totally bring the Knicks back as a reputable basketball operation AND win at a level they haven't won at for years AND get to the conference finals for the first time in decade, asking yourself "Can I reasonably expect to do better?" seems pretty relevant.

then you have Dolan clown factor lurking too, and this weird coaching search smacks of that to a degree.

Denver’s Russell Westbrook is declining his player option for next season to become an unrestricted free agent on June 30, league sources tell @TheSteinLine.

More NBA coverage: tinyurl.com/mb9hwz2r

cant wait to see what team talks themselves into thinking he'll be a helpful member of their rotation

paywalled - can you post text (curious about the celtics stuff)

Bucks should get him to fill Dame's spot

no it won't work but I love Russ and it would be fun to have him play for my team

I’m not a stein line subscriber, was just posting the headline from social media

subscribe to stein line and post here plz

Wes Goldberg
@wcgoldberg
On ESPN now, @ShamsCharania reporting that the Rockets, Heat and Timberwolves are the teams most engaged in trade talks with the Suns about Kevin Durant.

spurs maybe dropping out of it

suns probably not impressed with the offer, trying to get other teams to commit more win-now players (gobert from min) or better draft assets (hou's #10)

i dont get miami other than this is what they always do but have to assume herro and bam are off limits. so what do they have that phx would want? ware?

i guess there's wiggins

if you dont think you're a shoo-in to re-sign kd next summer, your offer should be pretty limited unless you can talk yourself into thinking that you're one kd away from a championship next year (i dont think this applies to hou, mia, or min tbh)

the heat also have expiring contracts (robinson & rozier) so i feel like part of their pitch to phx is salary relief. but i think their avenue would be committing to giving KD a bigger extension than other teams and him maneuvering his way there, tho i think if they were willing to do that the trade would be much closer to completion than it seems to be, also i think they would've just re-signed butler if they were willing to bet the farm on an old guy

hoop collective guys and others have talked about how durant's desire to be extended as part of the trade is at odds w/ the suns' desire to get an impressive haul back for him and it doesn't really seem like they're that close to cracking the code bcuz we know they have been negotiating w/ miami and minnesota since the deadline and clearly there are lines that those teams and phoenix have not been willing to cross in order to agree on a deal

it’s tough when we all already know how well trading a lot for kevin durant and paying him a max salary has worked for….the phoenix suns

i do think a lot of this is phx trying to leverage their way into better offers from all of the above bc theyre morbidly depressed by what theyve gotten so far

they're an intractable position of trading a guy who is very old and very expensive!

i do think the heat make a lot of sense bcuz unlike houston and san antonio they don't have enough trade ammo to really justify holding off for a bigger fish, and the east is going to be in a place next year where half the conference will be able to convince themselves that they can at least make a conference finals run. however again these teams have been negotiating actively for months and can't agree on a deal so what is going to break the stalemate

a: suns' desperation and eagerness to get a deal done before the draft, would be my best guess

The heat should absolutely not do this. There is no conceivable way Durant is getting them to the finals

yeah its a weird move bc as wide open as the east probably is, theres just enough there for miami to make anything other than a shallow playoff run. i kinda dont have a good idea for what they should do though. they're too good to tank, not good enough where making a big trade would matter.

*there just NOT enough

i wish someone like orl or det would get in the kd sweepstakes, one of those young almost-there teams

are the heat too good to tank? they finished 10th in the east last year and butler is gone. I don’t think riley is going to be the kind of guy who’d want to tank, but their path to actually being in the contention conversation is pretty unclear to me

KD on orlando would be interesting

bane to orlando! did not know he was available tbh.

for kcp, cole anthony, 4 unprotected 1sts, and a 1st swap, a lot of guys will become available

lol very true

i do kinda wonder...is memphis trying to get in on the kd trade? one of those 4 picks is a phx 1st rounder, and it seems like trading bane for two rotation guys is a step back for a team with a young core

um maybe not, just read the trade terms of that phx pick and its like a worst pick among like 3 or 4 teams

bane is obv a very good player and it seems like a perfect fit, however the fact that the magic felt like two rotation players and 4 firsts couldn’t even get them in a discussion for a legit all NBA player is pretty crazy. i guess bane could potentially get there but the trade market is so overheated

another trade that makes the siakam deal look like a borderline heist

four firsts!!

that’s crazy to me

those firsts have to be very bad right

Josh Robbins
@JoshuaBRobbins

These are the picks going from Orlando to Memphis in the Desmond Bane for Cole Anthony + Kentavious Caldwell-Pope deal, per league source:

+ 16th overall pick this year
+ a first-round draft pick in 2026 (which includes swap rights from either Phoenix or Washington)
+ a first-round draft pick in 2028
+ the swap rights to a first round draft pick in 2029 (top-two protected) and
+ a first-round draft pick in 2030

jesus christ

im a bane fan but thats just way too much

maybe orlando feels like they'll be a top 5-8 team so their own picks arent THAT valuable. the #16 this year is the prize pick.

like just a couple of years ago he was averaging almost 24 a game, hes a legit 50-40-90 threat, and he's about to turn 27 with 4 years left on his deal. its not that crazy of a deal esp given how many pg's they still have and how bad kcp got.

yeah if you’re gonna give up that much you should at least get back mikal bridges

Swap rights with suns/wiz means the suns/wiz get to choose, right?

it's reddit but...

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/1lc3axz/some_clarification_on_that_suns_2026_pick_in_the/

n essence, the Magic are giving up the "worst of Wizards/Suns" first via a swap they got for some crummy second round picks they gave up after the Suns had already swapped the pick as part of the Bradley Beal deal.

the Wizards are a mess and the Suns are barreling down that path at high speed, so chances are their 2026 first rd picks shld be pretty nice lottery picks

on realgm it's listed like

More favorable of (i) ORL and (ii) less favorable of PHX and WAS 1-8 [or (ii) PHX if WAS not conveyable];

I THINK that means if they finish WAS worst, then PHX, then ORL, it will be PHX's pick? not a bad pick!

Wiz constantly stepping on their own dick

Underdog NBA
@UnderdogNBA
Shams: Kevin Durant has no desire to be in Minnesota.

shams went on ESPN and said KD doesn't want to be in minnesota which leads me to believe

1. the best offer on the table is from minnesota
2. minnesota is pricing KD as a rental and isn't committed to giving him an extension

local sports radio station has been suggesting this might be the approach:

2. minnesota is pricing KD as a rental and isn't committed to giving him an extension

windy saying phx is not happy with the offers which lol ofc

marc spears went on ESPN today and said that KD wanted to go to the knicks but the knicks weren't interested and that KD is hoping that the suns will work with him on a destination because he's 38, and not try and trade him like "he is 31" ... very bizarre messaging

i thought that bontemps on one of the recent hoop collective pods had the most concise take on this when he said that ultimately ishbia, who just said he is going to be even more involved in roster building, is going to have to make a decision soon as to whether he is going to accept the best offer even if it's underwhelming and move the team into its next iteration or if he's going to say "we're not trading you for these offers" and turn this into a whole big fiasco. my money is on the latter!

it would honestly be the funniest option which tbh lols are bigger than basketball

making fiascos are ishbia's S.O.P.

guess it depends what kind of owner he wants to known as.

would be fascinated to find out what the wolves offer is because they have barely any draft assets to trade and i don't see how they give up multiple players of value off their roster while improving in the west just thru the act of acquiring KD. the spurs and rockets have enough roster depth that they could theoretically give up players and improve their team now and the heat are in the east so even if they give up real rotation players the path to playoff success is just far less treacherous, plus they weren't good to begin with. but the wolves roster is like, if they give up even two rotation players for KD i think it might make significantly worse

gobert+donte+picks could be just enough to make the suns say sure and maybe just maybe good enough for the wolves to make an interesting run with reid in the starting 5. i guess, idk. they still need a PG and bench depth bad.

building a team in the 2nd apron era is hard af basically.

the cba rewards teams with the power to offer more money to the players they draft. when those players turn out to be even kinda good they rush to give them a big extension to keep them on the books for the first 9 years of their career. most teams are capped bc of that. teams used to covet cap space to chase free agents, but now teams dont want to lose their players in free agency for nothing so theyd rather overpay and control the destiny of that player, all the asset management shit. draft picks become something like liquid currency.

then when they have disappointing playoffs, teams gotta trade someone bc no one can tell their fans 'hey hang tight we're just gonna be kinda good for a while.'

i really like this trade for orlando, overpay but a worthy one imo.

see i think gobert & DDV for KD would make them much worse. a deal where they give up gobert doesn’t make sense to me unless they have something else lined up to get a starting center. that team would be bad on defense

yes but think of the BUCKETS

gotta be randle in the deal

i assumed that's what minn was trying to do and there's really no downside to putting out into the world that you'd trade randle for a rental of kd

more power to the wolves if they can get KD w/ julius randle as the main piece back. i’d be hesitant to include donte tho, i’d prob see if they’d take dillingham and salary filler

from the athletic…

The Suns have made it clear to Durant’s camp that they need to prioritize the best return for the team in a deal. What’s more, they appear focused on landing the kind of impact players who can help now as opposed to prioritizing draft picks. The Wolves would seem to have options available to offer, with Rudy Gobert or Julius Randle headlining a package that could give the Suns hopes of contending. With the offers from the Spurs, Rockets and Heat coming up short to this point, league sources say the Suns are still hopeful that Durant might warm to the Timberwolves possibility.

The Timberwolves do not want to make a seismic change to a roster that advanced to the Western Conference finals if Durant is not on board with the move, team sources said. The question now is whether there’s any chance of Durant coming around to the idea.

"headlining a package that could give the Suns hopes of contending" contending for what

the play in

(stealing this from a podcast from last week) TJ mcconnell is the michael jordan of matthew dellavadovas

oops rong thread lol

raps are apparently offering rj or quickley + poeltl + 9th pick for kd according to the phx local radio guy

masai peddling poetl for a hall of fame player a second time would be hilarious, would have to tip my hat to him

i have to imagine the ninth pick is the best asset they could get in a KD trade so i’d take that if i was them

i agree as someone who rly wants him in sa.

the toronto core of ingram+durant+barnes+no center+whoever is left of rj/quickley makes no sense.

if the offers dont improve maybe they just dont trade him wait for a better offer to appear could get ugly

hard to imagine a team that traded everything they had for him two years ago moving him for a package that prob just doesnt move the needle, especially a team that is very dumb

and according to all reports theyre not looking to blow it up so a trade thats all about picks doesnt work making it an even more difficult sitch

i think ishbia just wants to move on from this iteration of the team and kd is the most moveable piece since beal is an albatross and they are firmly committed to book. they rly wanna get out of the 2nd apron this year.

durant and bad durant (ingram) on the same team would be objectively funny

i'm not convinced that ishbia is just going to trade him. KD might have to make it uglier

think that’s what I’m rooting for tbh

kinda cant imagine them keeping kd longer than trade deadline 2026 given how badly they want to get out of the 2nd apron. if they want a player in this draft they need to get something done this week.

durant and bad durant (ingram) on the same team would be objectively funny

― call all destroyer, Tuesday, June 17, 2025 6:43 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

freak scale 9/10 vs san antonio where we'd be a 10/10

holy hell the buss family selling the lakers. this cannot be good…

for the buss family or the lakers?

i’m sure it’s great for the buss family, might be good for the lakers idk, but a bunch of owners incl the ones of the league’s two most famous franchises pulling the ripcords on their ownership bcuz even richer, more shadowy people/conglomerates are making them offers they can’t refuse is, i think, bad overall

thats crazy busses were the last of the old school family business owners

prices for teams are so high now hard to turn down

nbas going to have to let petro states buy teams if they want prices to keep going up

$10b not bad, gotta check if i have any old sports teams lying around

so this is to the guy who owns the dodgers, they seem to do well

they could have their own military with a budget like that

the dodgers are probably the best run franchise in baseball

helps to not have a budget

jeanie buss is 63 with no kids, you have to think the buss family succession plan was on her mind

yeah apparently the buss family trust is like a hellfish bonanza type shit

makes the luka trade all the more interesting in retrospect…

weird

Former Rutgers star Ace Bailey has canceled a visit to the Philadelphia 76ers, sources told ESPN.

...

Bailey's pre-draft strategy has perplexed NBA teams over the past month, as he is currently the only US-based prospect yet to visit any NBA teams. He has declined invitations from multiple teams in his draft range, which is considered to be anywhere from 3 to 8.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/45541843/ace-bailey-cancels-76ers-visit-ahead-nba-draft

seems like a stay away guy

maybe he secretly doesn't exist

seems like a no exist guy

i wonder what the end game is. i mean, if i was him i wouldn’t want to go to philly either, but the difference between going third and going fifth is like $6m over the course of the rookie deal so you have to be pretty confident that you’re landing in the right place long term

speculation is that he wants to go to brooklyn

my speculation is that he hired a shitty agent

that’s a lot of money to forfeit up front but i guess their argument would be that it’s a long term investment in his future. it seems like he wants to go to a place where there aren’t any established players and he can have the ball a lot

i’m curious if he gets past utah. one of the reasons i like ace is because of the danny ainge draft strategy of “just take the wing,” we’ll prob get to see if danny actually sees it that way

from givony

Should the 76ers, at No. 3, and Charlotte at No. 4, elect not to draft him, Bailey's camp has expressed the belief that teams such as the Wizards, New Orleans Pelicans, or Brooklyn Nets, picking No. 6, 7 and 8, will be aggressive looking to move up in the draft and select him.

definitely a big bet that you can sabotage your chances of going third or fourth but not lose a bunch of money bcuz someone will trade up to 5 to pick you

this does seem like a hairbrained scheme is his agent also his uncle

actually seems even worse in that he’s not even related to the guy

more like about face bailey

more like disgrace failey

his agent is sharife cooper’s dad…

noted nba stalwart sharife cooper

sharife's dad dont like it
rock the draft stock

Apparently he hasn’t met with any teams privately?

yup, gotta have something cooking with one of the teams dont think ive seen anything like it tho

one would think philly would be fine with trading that pick so maybe itll all work out idk

https://i.imgur.com/gIt0Ncs.png

nets are not doing that

cam johnson could probably get them two 1rps alone, claxton at least one, and pg's contract is negative value at this point.

if you think you can get a star at 3 then its easily worth more than all that other noise

i think PG is actually an interesting buy low trade candidate — he has 3/161 left on his deal, if any of these KD teams acquire him and give him his max extension (2/122) the three year outlay incl his salary for next year would be about 3/180. KD is better and weirdly possibly a healthier player at this stage, but if the sixers were looking to get off that deal i wonder if the price would be lower than what the suns are asking for KD. you have to imagine it would be. however there have been zero rumors since the sixers season ended saying that PG is available so i guess it’s not gonna happen

could definitely see a team with cap/apron space taking a flyer on PG regressing back to his more productive mean. say...okc?

Im not sure I would try to trade PG. They aren’t getting anything that is going to help them win in a PG trade and they will burn a real asset in the #3 pick.

I think banking on possible turnaround years by Embiid and PG and simultaneously getting a potential future piece is the smarter move in the short and long terms.

idk pg was so bad last year and hes 35 but theyre prob not trading him anyway because no one wants him, i do agree that trading 3 unless youre getting a lot back is a bad idea but morey would do it hes prob planning on skipping town next year if things dont go his way anyway

sixers are in a tough spot

Morey shouldn’t trade the Clippers assets that the Sixers own. They will be the fuel for the next rebuild as the Clippers should be bad by then (and the Sixers might be as well).

i would be very open to trading the third pick in a draft where there is a clear 1 and then a clear 2 and then five-ish guys people think could or should go 3. the chances of picking the right guy out of that third group is not that high — you’d rather have the field than any individual player if you were wagering on who of those guys is gonna be the best player. there’s so many drafts where guys in the 8-12 range are better than the number 3 pick. if someone has conviction about who to pick at 3, and i could move down AND potentially pick up a rotation player, i’d be happy to let that happen, if i was morey

knueppel is the only player in that third tier that really makes any sense for the sixers presently. but i would understand the hesitation to spend the third pick on a role player. zach lowe did a 2022 redraft segment recently and you can move andrew nembhard and dyson daniels pretty high up in retrospect but you still can’t get them to 3

I’m definitely down to move back from 3 to 8 or so, pick up some future assets, and draft Knueppel. I don’t think you can do that and offload PG.

Something like this is fine with me (which seems a bit cute):

Vecenie has the Sixers making two first-round deals: “The Sixers trade No. 3 and Andre Drummond to the Hornets for No. 4 and No. 33; the Sixers then trade No. 4 and Eric Gordon to the Wizards for No. 6 and No. 18.”

He’s got the team taking Duke wing Kon Knueppel at No. 6 and Michigan center Danny Wolf at No. 18.

https://i.imgur.com/y69mP8i.png

elaborate plan to trade for beefy whites

you dont really see teams trading down from the top of the draft in the nba like you do in say the nfl because the top of the nba draft is so much more valuable than the rest of it, exception is when a team is trading down to get their guy celtics with tatum hawks with young

id personally keep 3 and take one of the guys who have star upside and hope they pan out, its a rare opportunity

celtics with tatum hawks with young

definitive proof that this strategy is... either brilliant or disastrous

its like i always say gotta get your guy, or not

KD to Houston for j green / dillon and #10 pick

And 5 second rounders

wow finally

suns im guessing favored the higher draft pick, cant imagine they keep jalen green long term though

it has happened

that is such a meager haul

feels like it’s hard to argue with this one for either side

I wonder how much KD will enjoy playing for Udoka? Seems like a personality clash of epic proportions.

Suns have three starting 2 guards

feels like some of what they got back will get moved again before the season starts

rockets starting 5: fvv-amen-kd-jabari-sengun
eason, whitmore, adams off the bench, maybe reed sheppard takes a leap

could be really good

no brainer for rockets at that price

pretty interesting move for the rockets they had a nice team except no one could get a bucket now they have a guy who can get one

reed sheppard makes a lot more sense on this team now. if anything they’re overly heavy on wings now, jabari would have to take a big step up as a shooter to fit with those 4 guys and eason is better than him to begin with. if sheppard is what people thought then he should be getting major minutes at the 2 pretty quickly now

it makes a lot of sense for the rockets unless they traded for the KD who can’t beat any good defender in iso in the playoffs

that is such a meager haul

― brony james (k3vin k.), Sunday, June 22, 2025 12:56 PM (forty-two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

big time it is what it is type situation for the suns

Old star who needs a massive extension who the whole league knew they had to trade.

for the suns to get the 10th pick, two players that will have some level of value and five other picks they can throw into deals… i didn’t think they would get that much flippable stuff

Wrt to the second rounders, reminded me of a discussion they were having on a Wolves podcast breaking down the draft and he was saying that, in the new apron world, the 31 pick the Wolves got back from the Jazz in the Mike Conley deal might be more valuable than the pick (21 I think) the Jazz got from the Wolves in the Gobert deal because of contacts... especially because he feels like the draft drops off pretty hard after around 15 so who knows if a late first guy is really any better than a early second round guy

I don't know if that's right but was interesting

prob overstating the case a little the contract thing is real you have more flexibility with second rounds picks but i dont think the draft really flattens out in a way where it doesnt matter that youre picking ten spots later, maybe deeper in the second round where almost none of the guys make the league anyway

Yeah tbh they seemed like they were riffing a little bit but was kind of interesting to think about

you could def have a situation where a team decides they dont want to carry a 1st round contract and punts for some seconds celtics did that couple years ago

Like say 29 vs 31 or something I could definitely see it

Of the 23 players who rated in the top five based solely on stats and were also drafted in the top five between 2007 and 2019, 17 have become All-Stars.

ones who didnt:
Lonzo Ball
Michael Beasley
Dragan Bender
Dante Exum
Greg Oden
Otto Porter Jr.
Ricky Rubio
Derrick Williams

from this pelton article https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/44888875/nba-draft-2025-projecting-30-best-prospects

and his bluesky https://bsky.app/profile/kpelton.bsky.social/post/3lsc5r23olk2j

meanwhile… whatever this means

The Denver Nuggets are naming Ben Tenzer as the executive vice president of basketball operations and hiring Minnesota Timberwolves executive Jon Wallace as the franchise's new executive vice president of player personnel, sources tell ESPN. Both will report to Josh Kroenke.

josh kroenke experienced a franchise crippling power struggle between two people and said, you know what let me hire two decision makers with nearly identical titles to report directly to me

I'm despondent, man. completely agree with that take. a lot of nuggets fans were speculating that it was going to be bob meyers and that they were waiting until the finals was over to announce it (otherwise why would you want to not have a full time GM/POBO when trades are starting and the draft is coming up...I digress...). I've seen some praise about wallace, but much of it comes from denver media who are not really the most objective bunch. but even if he is great, why the diarchy?

Shams: The Boston Celtics have traded Jrue Holiday to the Portland Trail Blazers for Anfernee Simons and two second-round picks, sources tell ESPN.

what the hell

okay! offense is the name of the game

derrick white-simons-brown on the perimeter is not bad at all

do not understand portland's logic here

i don’t either

jrue just turned 35 and is already showing significant decline, is making huge money for the next three years, plays the same position as your 3rd year #2 pick that might turn the corner into respectability...and then two 2nds??

fact: the teams with legalized weed are making bad decisions

Good get for Boston. Jrue seemed cooked anyway

i think jrue can play off the ball next to scoot and sharpe i just share everyone else’s concerns about his aging

i also understand that portland had a surprisingly competent season and you can’t just be bad forever but idk what they think they’re doing in the west over the next few years

from boston’s POV it makes total sense for this coming regular season but simons seems like the exact kinda player who loses his minutes once we hit late second round or the conference finals

I assume portland will flip jrue (which they did two years ago!) otherwise this is just like what huh

i feel like jrue is supposed to be the veteran mentor for a young backcourt while also helping them “compete” in the west

well damn so long jrue, i understand the move but i dont love it

yeah seems like a move for the upcoming season and that’s all. celtics did manage to finagle some decent draft assets out of the deal

yeah i mean theyre punting on next season via tatums injury jrues getting old had a pretty rough season with lots of minor injuries be asking a lot for him to be really good in 26-27, move is basically a salary dump simons is in the last year of his deal and im sure the celtics want to get out of those aprons, tho he could be a useful player hes a great shooter and can handle some maybe if he fits in they sign him to some reasonable new deal

unrelatedly i like tre johnson, idk how good hes going to be in the league but i just like watching him play, natural baller

he reminds me of jamal crawford

everyone talks about him like he's essentially cam thomas

tre feels like he'll have a real nba career, idk if an all-star necessarily, but he can flat out shoot

all the stuff people say about ace bailey seems to apply to tre johnson too, except tre is a 2 guard. idk. strikes me as the kinda colin sexton type player who nobody really wants to give a big contract to at the end of the day

We’ve entered the NBA’s parity era, supposedly, with the Thunder being the NBA’s seventh different champion in the past seven years. In fact, none of the past six defending champions has even made it past the second round a year later; 11 of the 12 finalists have failed to do the same. Of the past 24 conference finalists, only Boston (2022-23), Miami (2022-23), Minnesota (2024-25) and Indiana (2024-25) have made it back the next year.

from hollinger’s future of the west column. pretty crazy…and the crazier thing is these are like some of the worst teams of the 24

it is honestly kind of insane that the pacers trade to get their 2026 back from the pelicans before game 7. what did they know???

*traded

genuinely forgot the pacers were the celtics ECF opponent last year

xp to j0rd

i realize a 4/$72M isnt huge my modern standards but sexton is a success story in this league afaic. not an all-star but a guy who's gonna play well into his 30s. that would be a good outcome for bailey, but i could def see some cam reddish type outcomes for him on the other end of the spectrum.

tre shot 40% from 3 on 7 attempts a game on a team where he was having to self-create a lot of those shots. even if he is just a shooter, i think he's a good bet to play for a long time.

his shooting is pretty ridiculous seems like only way it doesnt work in the league is if he just cant get open but i think he should be able to hes got the sauce, and potentially he could do a lot more too

i think colin sexton is definitely a success story for colin sexton. but the team that drafted him didn't want to pay him and then the team that took him in a trade and gave him that contract in order to salary match keeps drafting lottery picks at his position. players drafted after sexton in his draft include SGA, mikal bridges, MPJ, DDV (and miles bridges). so i think his success story is in the eye of the beholder

i'm not arguing that tre johnson would fall out of the league or anything but "scoring 2 guard who is a negative on defense" just seems to be a problematic player type in the current game. when these guys get paid everyone is immediately like "well that is a negative value contract" and to provide even an arguable amount of real value you have to be like zack lavine, tyler herro level of scorer. and the level of that value is, again, quite arguable. jalen green falls on which side of the line? maybe i'm missing something idk

if you look at most of the top teams in the league right now who don't have i.e. donovan mitchell, anthony edwards etc their two guards are -- derrick white, alex caruso or lu dort, nembhardt, josh hart. norm powell or someone like that is an idealized version of a scoring two guard insofar as he isn't a sieve on defense? and it took him like 10 years into his career or something to cross the line from "wait is he actually good?" to "yes he is definitely good"

he could be a tyrese maxey except not really because he doesnt finish like that but lets say he did

taller maxey who doesnt love it

but maxey is able to play point guard on a good team. if tre johnson can play point guard on a good team then it is a different discussion

i dont object to any of that. i guess the big challenge in the draft now is if your team sucks out loud, you have to take swings on guys who have primary scoring potential and hope their weaknesses elsewhere can be shored up. that usually doesnt work, and you'll pass up on better team fit guys who go on to have better careers (and in the case of sga or hali, go on to be better primary scorers, too)

xps

we're having an argument about collin sexton w/o matt armstrong around, doesn't feel right to me

i think we'll be ok, im not here to defend collin sexton, keep his ass in utah. only saying on the scale of star to bust, he's closer to the former than the latter (while being neither). and in the end, once you get out of the top 3-5 picks, thats not a bad outcome to get.

matt armstrong would say to put some respect on christian braun’s name

if you look at most of the top teams in the league right now who don't have i.e. donovan mitchell, anthony edwards etc their two guards are -- derrick white, alex caruso or lu dort, nembhardt, josh hart.

xp

johnson could be one of those guys who like maxey is good the second he steps onto an nba court and everyones like oh of course

i guess my point ultimately is that this kinda player has a very high bar to clear to be a positive contributor to a winning team whereas other player types have a much lower bar to clear. like, idk — keegan murray is prob considered a mild disappointment given what he theoretically could be, and you’d still rather have him than colin sexton

you know who else has high bars is snoop dogg 420 blaze it up babyyyyy

lol ok

FROM SHAMS:

The New Orleans Pelicans are trading CJ McCollum, Kelly Olynyk and a future second-round pick to the Washington Wizards for Jordan Poole, Saddiq Bey and the No. 40 pick, sources tell ESPN.

nice to know kelly o still exists out there somewhere

wiz get off two contracts with two years left in order to get two players on expiring deals so i guess thats nice for them?

odd choice by the pels

evergreen.

gotta think they trade zion at some point right?

pels just doin stuff

it is pretty funny that cj mccollum and khris middleton are on the same team and giannis and dame are on the same team

Shams:

BREAKING: Boston, Atlanta and Brooklyn are finalizing a three-team trade that sends Kristaps Porzingis and a second-round pick to the Hawks, Terance Mann and Atlanta's No. 22 pick to the Nets, and Georges Niang and a second-rounder to the Celtics.

lmao the nets have FIVE 1st rounders right now

is this...good for atlanta? how healthy is zingus? he is hurt all the time. niang is less talented but soooo durable and is a genuine 3 point threat.

wtffff

the celtics rescuing zinger from siberia for two years and then sending him back to… well, a country adjacent to siberia… is kinda making me sad

seeing that the celtics are saving like 200+M in luxury tax with these two moves

it totally sucks but it’s how you do stuff under the cba now.

It's a short walk from new dynasty to rebuilding these days

this is what CJ mccollum wanted

congrats to celtics for doing all their trades i guess

dont think anyones taking zinger off their hands considering last time we saw him he couldnt breathe

― lag∞n, Tuesday, June 24, 2025 8:37 AM (eleven hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

fine wine

lol

always worth remembering there are more dumb franchises than smart franchises out there

did the hawks actually give up a first for zinger, confusing trade

KeithSmithNBA‬ keithsmithnba.bsky.social‬

In terms of real dollars from tax penalties, bc they were a tax repeater and so far over the tax line, I've got Boston reducing their projected tax bill for 25-26 by over $196M after their two trades.

Boston saved about $27M in actual salary, but were on basically 7x-8x multiplier for the tax bill.

‪KeithSmithNBA‬ ‪keithsmithnba.bsky.social‬

WAY more to come from me on this trade (and probably the team too!), but the Boston Celtics are now out of the second apron by $4.5M.

The Celtics are $7.4M over the first apron and about $15.4M over the luxury tax.

They should trade Tatum.

no they should keep him hes nice

kyrie turns down player option to extend 3/119

yeah that's about right

the celtics rescuing zinger from siberia for two years and then sending him back to… well, a country adjacent to siberia… is kinda making me sad

― slob wizard (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, June 24, 2025 4:22 PM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

will be interesting to see what the experts think about this one. I can see the vision with trae, and the hawks are kind of a sneaky team on the rise. particularly with the east currently a graveyard

it's a reasonable swing for the hawks imo