YOUR 2008 NBA DRAFT THREAD

circles otm

the only dude out of the nbadraft.net top 10 that i really think could be a transcendent nba player is rose-- totally on the chris paul tip imo. bayless could be a solid richard jefferson type, and both gordon and mayo are total wild cards-- i like mayo better because he really expanded his game at the end of the year, could see him as a caron butler type dude that is a solid scorer with potential to go for 20-8-8. gordon just seems to have like a ben gordon ceiling to me

Who could be luckier than a big man with middling skills in a letdown draft year? Robin Lopez, come on down!

hahaha

thnx jordan

I'm kind of curious about Rose because he definitely seems like he's ready to move on and get experience running an NBA team, but the track record of on-and-done or straight to the league PGs kind of terrible. I'm sure he (and Conley too) will probably change that, but right now the shining star among one-and-done guys is, uh, Stephon Marbury.

I do keep seeing Robin listed high and thinking "Are we really sure he's better than Spencer Hawes?"

whoops I mean Brook

Brook Lopez would be a good pick near the start of the 2nd round. Possibly the end of the 1st round. 7-footers don't grow on trees. Just remember that Shawn Bradley had an NBA career.

it'll be hard to pass up beasley with the no. 1 because at times he looks like a more athletic, bigger, lefty carmelo...

but for some reason it is very easy to imagine dude having an abdur-rahim-esque career.

if westbrook from ucla can run the point, he'll be something...

maybe he should stay a year and try to take over from collison...

but they're likely to lose everybody, and he'll be a lottery guy, so why would you stay? i guess it all depends on love.

derrick rose is unselfish and a physical freak (wade-esque), but i don't think he has amazing court vision. not to say he can't be a great, all-star guard and a willing passer, but i don't get the kidd/paul comparisons. i'd still spend the first pick on him tho.

meanwhile, oj mayo definitely has next level vision, but then he went and modeled his game on KOBE circa-2003 which means shooting too many stylish jumpers when he shoulda been a point guard.

I like Mayo a lot better as a non-point though. I remember reading descriptions from like the adidas camp a couple of years ago and he'd take like 25 shots and have 4 assists. It wasn't that he was necessarily playing poorly, or hurting his team, but the idea that he was a point guard never seemed that serious.

Though ideally, yeah, a 6'4" point guard with incredible scoring ability is a lot more special than a 6'4" shooting guard with incredible scoring ability.

shocker of the day: eric gordon not forgoing nba dollars to spend another year under a different coach and ncaa sanctions at indiana

thinking, is rose like exactly what bassy telfair was supposed to be but turned out not to be? like neither can really shoot all that well, but rose is just a monster at the rim as opposed to telfair who just gets bodied out

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/basketball/ncaa/specials/ncaa_tourney/2008/04/08/speights.ap/index.html

some interesting names:

- chase budinger, f, arizona (soph)
- ronald steele, g, alabama (junior)
- anthony randolph, f, lsu (fresh)
- marreese speights, f, uf (soph)
- jerryd bayless, g, arizona (fresh)
- earl clark, f, louisville (soph)
- ryan anderson, f, cal (soph)
- javale mcgee, c, nevada (soph)

yeah cuz rose is like half a foot taller and hell of strong. he can jump higher too. like young marbury with some sense.

could never quite tell what telfair was trying to do.

i like eric gordon alright, but no one should ever spend a top 10 pick on a 6-foot volume scorer 2-guard not named iverson. gordon was born ten years too late, he could've gotten paid in the late 90s, early 00s wasteland. he'll be lucky to be ben gordon in today's league. maybe he'll prove me wrong.

chase budinger lacks fire. aren't white guys supposed to try hard??

budinger's always got that pro beach volleyball option 2 in the back of his mind

i kind of assumed that telfair was doomed by nyc hoops hype from the beginning

This year does have a lot of combo-ish guards that are ranked high. I dunno, in a lot of ways they seem to have come at a good time, because teams don't seem too squeamish about playing two smallish guards together. Chicago, Dallas, Golden State do or at least have done it reasonably effectively. And I still pretty much think of Wade as a combo guard, even though he's become so effective that nobody really brings it up any more.

chase budinger lacks fire. aren't white guys supposed to try hard??

see Dunleavy, Mike

but junior is obviously terrified

budinger just coasts

So apparently there are something like 65 early entry candidates this year. Plus, uh, seniors. Chad Ford or someone was saying that NBA teams can pay for workouts now, so a lot of guys might be declaring to be able to do some workouts but then drop out of the draft.

Also surprised that Blake Griffin didn't declare, since players whose stock is so high tend to declare in the end regardless of what they say at first.

oh man im so psyched to not be following the draft compulsively this year

haha, i can imagine

daer jebus

it's very hard to be the timberwolves. could you pls make it so we get derrick rose?

thank u

HOLY SHIT WOOOOOHOOOOOO
DERRICK ROSE IS GONNA COME HOME!!

can someone explain to me why when charlotte showed up at #9 or w/e that made it automatically clear that the bulls were in the top 3?

May be wrong, but I think the top three are picked by lottery balls, and then the rest are just in order of their records. So since the Bulls should have been at #9 b/c of their record, their not being there meant that they were in the top 3.

as I understand it, only picks 1-3 are directly determined via the lottery balls. There is not a single ball selection, but rather, at minimum, 3. Whoever gets the 1 ball first, gets the first pick. Then the process is done again, and whoever gets the #1 ball this time gets the #2 pick, unless it's the same team as before, in which case that run through is null, and it's done again. And so on.
The other picks go to the teams that "lost" the lottery, and are assigned according to their season record. So if a team whose record initially slots them in the 4th-14th position is known to have their card not been read for either that initial position or any below it, you know they must be in the top 3.
xpost

sorry that your jebus forsook you m@tt

http://i28.tinypic.com/30s7ehu.gif

awww mr mayor :(

damn i cannot believe this happened!~~~ BULLS

wolves jinxed themselves by sending hoiberg w/some cancer kids bear

cancer kids by definition do not have good luck - duh!

radio interview w/pax, and obv he was all "we must be diligent, not make any rash decision" blah blah typical Pax speak BUT it was telling that he said the 1 and 5 positions are the hardest to fill. I don't care what Beasley vs Rose numbers are, this team needs a quarterback and a leader above all. Beasley has attitude issues and has elicited no praise for his leadership abilities. Bulls don't need a Zach Randolph, or even a Carmelo Anthony (never will win a title as a team's #1 option)

well you can be sure which ever decision paxon makes itll be the wrong one :P

ha but seriously all this michael beasley character assassination is a bit overboard - have you seen him play? he works at it - which is the most important thing - lol no fattays

haha there is a certain amount of security in that. i've grown to hate his whole CHARACTER FIRST, TALENT SECOND philosophy, but so long as he realizes that character and leadership are 2 totally different things (the latter being wayyyyyyy more important than the former, esp when you are totally lacking the latter) I think he should stay the course, 1000 points of light...

i was thinking about who they should take between beasley and rose but everything seems to point to rose being the best pick, people are comparing him to chris paul. just keep him away from motorcycles and eddy curry's personal chef~

haha. yeah paul wasn't known to be much of a scorer or shooter when he came in, right? now he's pretty much automatic from 17 feet and in, which is all you need from a pg who also has a bunch of other tools.

this is such fucking bullshit.

the bulls..goddamn it.

i have no clue who i want them to take at 3....mayo? LOLpez? hell i was thinking do you stretch for DJ augustin cuz he's a real point guard?

i feel for you dude :(

id go oj (let foye tryn run the point) - despite getting shit on all year for not being the next lebron he could easily end up the best player in the draft - i like bayless too - robotic lopez will likely be solid but not great - tiny spaztic augustin im thinking is a career back up

yeah i was thinking augustin could be sorta like damon stoudamire or something.

but yeah if mayo is there i don't think the wolves have enough talent to pass on him.

it's just we got a whole fucking team of 2 guards!

small ones, at that

i'm such a baby but goddamn the t-wolves can never catch a fuckin' break. or make competent decisions. my biggest reason for wanting to be 1 or 2 was just that it took any judgement out of making a pick, something McFail has proven he sucks at.

yah youve got to get a new owner in there before there can be any hope

last 10 #3 overall picks:

al horford
adam morrison
deron williams
ben gordon
carmelo anthony
mike dunleavy
pau gasol
darius miles
baron davis
raef lafrentz

3 certifiable stars, some decent second tier options (possible stars in the future included), a couple of busts.

virtually the same could be said about recent #1 picks. chin up, m@tt.

as I understand it, only picks 1-3 are directly determined via the lottery balls. There is not a single ball selection, but rather, at minimum, 3. Whoever gets the 1 ball first, gets the first pick. Then the process is done again, and whoever gets the #1 ball this time gets the #2 pick, unless it's the same team as before, in which case that run through is null, and it's done again. And so on.

i think rose is the best player in the draft, but he's not chris paul.
just like character =/= leadership
unselfishness =/= court vision

i never watched rose and thought 'oh shit he's controlling the whole game with his MIND' like how chris paul does
hes more like dwyane wade or something, just a really athletic smart guard who plays hard

ok yeah since i posted that yesterday i read that works how you describe it, but that there's 4-digit combos.

mayo could win some rings if he got his mind right, but not as the #1 option

i watched him and noticed that he plays pretty good defense, he's a great passer, has a smooth handle, will end up a very good shooter in the pros. but instead of being the next dumars or a ginobili type and just winning, he seems to want to do kobe shit. and he's 6'4" and less athletic than kobe, which leads to some awkwardness

itd be better if there were little balls w/team logos on them - so cute!

were people saying that about paul when he was in college, though? (i honestly don't know. again, not much of a fan of the college game). in any case, i'm much more conflicted about who they should pick now than i was 8 hours ago. Glad it's not my decision to make, and super stoked that Bulls are even in the position to have to choose which of their huge holes they should fill with one of the top 2 prospects.

most people were saying chris paul was the best point guard prospect since jason kidd - then just like is happening to beasley now the season ended and he started to slip and ending up going 4th - 4TH! :O

all of it had to do w/size and position issues - its kinda funny now cause paul is one of the guys whos convinced people its a guards league. so instead of taking the guy who was singularly dominant - people are talking themselves into rose.

riley has been making some weird comments about how maybe they won't necessarily take rose or beasley...things could get interesting...

i read he doesnt like beasley - but luvs rose - and if hes not there at 2 the pick will be for sale

just a FYI - the two chicago polls i've seen have been 70-30 to take Rose. I can't speak for anyone else, but I've thought ever since I played community ball in 5th grade that PG is the most important position. And even when they were doing well I thought the Bulls were a bunch of decent players with no leader (Skiles masked this deficiency while he was here) who collectively crawl into a hole when anything goes even slightly wrong on or off the court. Do you non-Chicago dudes realize that Adrian fucking Griffin was the one calling team meetings??!

yah obv the bulls have a lot of problems - but yr not going to fix them w/one guy - best try and figure out who the best player is and take him

v easy to out think yrself here - i have a feeling the actual decision makers are going through a similar thought process

even w/all the rule and style of play changes id still say a big man that can play both sides of the ball is the most valuable nba commodity - but if you look at historical drafts pgs are def the way under valued - if rose goes over beasley itd signal a major shit in nba thinking

a major shit in nba thinking

isiah?

oh my i loled out loud!

beasley is really really good. super smooth, super athletic, lefty. i like him more than durant, but i love post play and hate jump shooters.

i think the problem is the guys he compares to have all been flawed in the nba. i see some d coleman, some shareef abdur-rahim some carmelo some antawn jamison even some c-webb, but none of those guys is exactly what you want, right? with rose, you can talk yourself into him being kidd or paul or wade and those guys are better than the beasley dudes...

i guess the pro-beasley thing is: he has the skill set to be all of those guys at once...but i dunno

also beasley did not play ANY defense in the two or three times i saw him. he rebounds good tho

cahd fords saying beasley is a little small and rose is a little big

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2008/insider/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=DraftNotes-080522

Against KU Beasley played crazy good defense. That was true in a bunch of the other regular season games I saw. In the tournaments (Big 12 + NCAA) he was just playing offense.

that does not set a good precedent, and may wind up to be the Paxson's deciding factor.
shittiest part of this is that I swore I'd give no more of my $$$ to the Bulls org since Reinsdorf is unwilling to go above the cap even when they have the highest attendance in the league (merchandising has to still be up there, too, I would think), and now I'll have to attend at minimum one game.

chad ford sayin miamis lookin at oj - which means matt yr guys have a shot at beasley - lol nba draft so crazy

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2008/insider/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=DraftWatch-080523

tho im not sure that beasley/jefferson is the greatest combo - neither have great size or defense

still take that gift if it falls and figure the rest out later

Portland has #13. Not a fabulous pick, but with Greg Oden already in their hip pocket waiting to debut, a #13 might buy them a nice role player. Blazers could use a defensive specialist most of all, but a big rebounding forward who can bang bodies might be a nice pick up.

lol, just what the heat need, a 6'4" guy who's not a point guard and constantly looking to score

(not a diss on mayo, just that they've already got that guy)

Didn't know until now there was a "I Love Hoops" board. Was wondering why no-one was talking basketball on ILE.

The measurements in Orlando this week will be interesting for a few players -- Beasley, Love, and Gordon in particular.

I've heard concern that Beasley might be only 6'7". I buy Miami maybe wanting Mayo more. Beasley is not really a great fit with Minny or Seattle but can't really slip just on pure talent. The Grizzlies would love to get a hold of him but I can't imagine Minny and Seattle letting the Heat and Griz work out a Beasley/Mayo deal.

I wonder why I've never seen Beasley compared to Barkley -- that's really the BEST case scenario.

What does everyone think about Lopez? He's the lottery guy (other than Gallinari) I have the hardest time figuring out. In college it seemed like he just had such an easy time getting deep position and shooting over guys that I never got a sense of how his game will translate at the next level.

12pts 7reb somewhat robotic solid D?

pj brown w/a post game?

reading chad ford it seems that the consensus around the league is that lopez is solid but not a superstar and i'd agree with that. he could be good for 15 and 10 for a 8=10 years, but i don't think he's turning into a dwight howard or a tim duncan or someone else you'd look to emulate with a top 3 pick

ford compared him to kaman and i think that seems pretty apt

15 and 10 seems excessive - only 11 guys averaged 10reb this year - dude just seems a little too stiff to really flow in the nba

Lopez is not as bulky or physical as Kaman, but I could see him being on the same tier quality wise. I would say Bogut, but I don't think Lopez will have those playmaking skills. He is really agile and active for his size. The little thing that impressed me most when I watched him was the way he stepped out and defended on the perimeter, hedging on pick-and-rolls, etc. I don't think he's stiff for a guy his size, but agree he won't be a dominant rebounder.

the Griz are my team (Wolves secondary) and know they'd consider him if he's there at 5, so I kinda hope my Wolves take the bullet and select him to keep it from coming to that.

yikes lopez @ three would be a huge reach - so yah the wolves will prob do it

I talked to some NBA front office people right after the lottery and the consensus was Lopez at 3. But Mayo potentially moving back up complicates that. Don't know what to think about the Kevin Love to Minny rumors.

lopez at 3 would be an incredible incredible reach

i think 3 is the worse pick in this draft. neither mayo, lopez or bayless is going to be as productive as like even caron butler or igoudala imo. maybe not even rudy gay. idk i'm really cold on those 3 dudes. shitty euro dude included

wait r u the real hubie brown?

i like mayo a lot and bayless somewhat - lopez gets the gasface as outlined above

i think mayo is good but i'm not sold on him as this tallish poor man's chris paul facilitator extraordinaire

i think he's good at pick 7-9 as a guy who could turn into a 16-5-3 guy or a guy who could end up as a low first round producer but i think he's a rrrrrreach at 3

"guy" "guy" "guy"

Look, Jack, if I were the real Hubie Brown, I wouldn't even know how to post on a message board. I'd be heading home from the Pistons-Celtics game to unwind with a paperback — Grisham, Clancy, all the big ones — before heading to bed.

No -- a part-time hoops writer who tries to cover the Grizzlies, so I had the pleasure of listening to Hubie in person for a couple of years.

FWIW -- people I talked to were convinced Lopez would be a Top 5 pick. I'm not so sure now.

I used to think Mayo was the next Jamal Crawford, but now I think he'll be better than that. Somewhere between Crawford and Wade, but maybe a better defender than either.

Not convinced he's a point guard.

On pure talent, I like Anthony Randolph at 3, but there's a lot of risk there.

yah he could be this years thad young

shit man if i was picking at number 3 i don't think i'd have the balls to take randolph at 3 but i like him a lot, and i think the risk involved w/ him is worth it compared to lopez

y'know i guess worst case is he turns out to be stromile swift and best case is he turns out to be chris bosh??? i think in this draft you kinda have to take that risk

I think Randolph might really be 6'11" -- with big-time shot-blocking ability and small-forward ball skills. If he can add some muscle (he's still only 18, so I give him the benefit of the doubt on that) and if his demeanor/make-up is okay (dunno about that, but one scout told me he thought Randolph was the only guy who didn't give up on that LSU team), then I think he's got a chance to be an all-star.

(Randolph's got more actual basketball skill at 18 than Stro has now. Stro was a freak athlete, not a basketball player. That dude's game I know well.)

most realistically he ends up being ty thomas right? shows flashes but never quite puts together over a full 82?

tyrus has some time left i guess to prove himself tho

i mean does he have the ability to expand his jumper out to around the 3 point line like bosh does? that's a pretty huge thing for a 6'11'' pf

ty thomas has not shown much yet - tho he gets somewhat of a break for playing on a completely dysfunctional team - never good for a young player

isn't mayo just gonna be randy foye mk2? picking dude at three seems like a hell of a gamble.

xpost.

i mean does he have the ability to expand his jumper out to around the 3 point line like bosh does? that's a pretty huge thing for a 6'11'' pf

-- J0rdan S., Wednesday, May 28, 2008 11:24 PM (58 seconds ago) Bookmark Link

im talking about randolph here btw

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maybe -- I just think his rawness is in his physical development, not his skill-level. With Thomas (and Stro), it was the opposite -- a developed athlete with raw skills.

But yeah, there's probably more bust potential there than with Mayo/Bayless/Lopez

I think Randolph's range is more limited than Bosh's was at the same stage, but he's more of a shot-blocker and maybe a better post player than Bosh was. His team was not as good.

Check out this highlight clip. Mostly useless, but the one clip of him taking a defensive board, weaving through traffic up court, and pulling up for a mid-range J demonstrates his raw talent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8KRal8WSTU

what abt deandre jordan

I don't buy the Dwight Howard comps AT ALL. He doesn't like a force-of-nature athlete. Think of what Howard did straight out of high school in the NBA and then imagine what he would have done to the Big 12.

I guess Bynum is reasonable comp since he looked like he couldn't play at that stage, but he could just as easily be Yinka Dare or the slow-developing and limited Dasagna Diop. I wouldn't spend a Top 10 pick to find out.

i kind of worry about a guy like deandre jordan just never getting to play and kind of stalling his development. mark turgeon didn't seem willing to play him instead of his veteran big guys last year, so it's kind of hard to see most nba coaches willing to give him some minutes.

http://assets.espn.go.com/i/nba/draft2008/headshots/19077.jpg bill walker is my official 2008 nba draft sleeper pick

when i saw k st he outplayed beasley considerably (against a really really horrid missouri team) and was way more matured and composed when they lost a huge lead

obv just one game tho and i think beasly put up like 40 against mizz in k st

yeah, beasley plus the acl injury probably have devalued walker too much

btw LOOOOOOOL at joey dorsey

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/basketball/ncaa/05/28/dorsey.ap/index.html

Joey Dorsey is older than Darko Milicic.

The story that became public where he started a riot at a Memphis nightclub by standing on the bar and "making it rain," and then ran away when the police showed up -- that's the tip of the iceberg with this guy.

i love when dudes fuck around all college season, then declare and drop 30 lbs like bill walker's doing

like linas kleiza was like a 260 lb center at missouri til he declared and decided to be a 3. i heard quinn snyder fucked his girl so he bailed after sophomore year and got in shape

being at 3 thru 10 in this draft is scary. all these 'raw' big men with no heart, mayo, bayless, the 'good' lopez bro, that euro, kevin love.

i guess thats every draft tho

kevin love is young but he's not particularly raw. He sees the court very well and knows how to move and space. That said, he will not start for the team that picks him. He'll be ok giving 15-20 minutes off the bench.

I'm rooting for Love simply because he went to the same high school as me.

i don't like love but he'd be perfect for a team like new jersey, who needs a guy who is willing to bang around and be selfless BUT can also fill it up at times

love has extension on his jumper

i really like him at the middle-bottom of the lottery

PERFECT TEAM FOR HIM IS GOLDEN STATE ACTUALLY

we should all be praying for this

i don't like love

ok lol idk why i said this

Love plays like a 2003 version of Chris Webber.

The first time I saw Love was in person at the Nike Hoop Summitt the summer after he graduated high school and I dismissed him immediately as a pro, but he's won me over this year.

Three aspects of his game I'm convinced will translate:

1. He'll be a quality pick-and-pop guy -- he'll set stiff picks, he's got college-three range on his shot, and he's got a great feel for the game.

2.He'll rebound, because that translates and is as much about skill and desire as height and athleticism.

3. He'll be an elite passer from the 4/5.

Can he score on the block or defend anyone? Those are the questions. I think with his savvy and strength and free-throw shooting, he'll be decent scorer in the paint. The defense? Could be a big problem.

Anyway, i like him as a potential Boozer/Brad Miller hybrid. Maybe as high as #5.

Hah -- 2003 Webber is an interesting comp. Can he play like the 2003 Webber for 10 years?

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i wasn't saying love is raw, i was lumping together the dude from lsu and the a&m guy and the florida guy and darrell arthur. that's my least favorite type to draft

i think love will be good if his team has a couple of athletic scorers for him to play off w/his shooting and passing. he also impressed me by unexpectedly blocking some shots in the tourney. that said i don't see him scoring in the post in the pros and still being 20 lbs overweight after a year as an elite d1 player is kind of suspect

i would love the nuggets to trade up and get him

I heard yesterday that Love measured under 6'8" in socks, but I haven't seen the official measurements leak yet.

If he's too short to be a part-time center, then I think that hurts his stock.

yah theres just no way to be successful in the nba w/below average height and athleticism - dont think love will be too good

did you read that ridiculous chgo tribune article where it hints that the bulls and heat are talking trade involving draft picks and wade? and it wasnt even #1 for wade straight up, it talks like #1 & various players for Wade and #2. i mean obvs great for bulls, but honestly... why would miami do that...

Wade is starting to turn into a media star a little bit.

Love actually measured out okay at Orlando -- a slight tick below Al Horford in most categories.

Dunno about Chicago getting the #2 as well, but there would have to be players involved on the Chicago end to make any trade with Wade meet cap rules.

"yah theres just no way to be successful in the nba w/below average height and athleticism - dont think love will be too good"

I think so too, but to be honest I thought the same thing about Boozer (and to a lesser extent Brand) and he seems to have turned out all right.

there's always a way

brand w/his arms isnt under sized at all and boozer while not elite is a much better athlete than love. but really what you guys are missing here is love has to play center in the nba. theres just no way he can hang w/the quickness of pretty much every pf in the league.

just imagine him trying to guard garnett, bosh, west, josh smith, odom. lol its comical to even think abt.

I agree on both accounts, BUT Boozer is a much better athlete because he worked his ass off to get into insane shape. . . I (and I think most people) thought he was too slow/soft for the NBA (similar doubts with Brand.)

That said I mostly agree with you with the lone caveat that I still think he's a better pick than oh let's say Adam Morrison haha.

haha, i think "better than adam morrison" has become a new benchmark for evaluating guys who were good in college (though i would agree in love's case)

i don't know how many of you have seen the orlando camp measurements, but the heights with shoes are kind of hilarious. apparently kevin love wore some thick fucking shoes.

I've been daydreaming about Greg Oden in a Trailblazer uniform, rejecting shots by the fistful and Brandon Roy scooping them up to start the break with Lamarcus Aldridge sweeping in from the wing for the jam. None of this year's projected #13 picks can make my heart throb in the same way. **sigh**

bill walker?

oh man aimless im already starting to feel bad for you abt greg odens disappointing injury plagued career and it hasnt even begun

Yeah -- in the discussion about the possibility of picking Love at #5 for the Grizzlies, I've made the case that being convinced he can play quality minutes at center in certain match-ups is a pre-requisite.

Boozer was fat and slow coming out of college, which is why he slipped to the second round. He really got in shape his first couple of seasons in the League.

Considering Love (or "Man Boobs," as Griz-fan detractors have been calling him) is only 19 and is already losing weight and toning up, I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt on the conditioning.

Love's working out for the Grizzlies Monday (with Deandre Jordan). I'm gonna ask him about the big discrepancy between his "w/o shoes" and "with shoes" heights.

why the fuck they measure w/shoes in the first place? im loling at the possible explanations

the nba combine is always mindblowing

these drills ranked monta ellis as the worst athlete in his class.
chris kaman faster lane agility than tj ford.
jj redick higher vert than igoudala.

kevin love has a higher vertical than darrell arthur.

they really need to rethink this thing. it's not football

jj redick higher vert than igoudala.

huh

someone needs to explain how any drill could be devised to make this true

were the white guys allowed to jump on mini-trampolines or something

hire a personal trainer and drill for the combine for 3 months

monta ellis was literally ranked dead last of all players, then he gets into the league and is unguardable, dunking everything

okay, my bad. redick had a 33 inch vertical, igoudala 34. so the drills are actually correct.

lol case closed

ha i just spent like 5 minutes finding the igoudala/redick vertical info and for what?

re: height with shoes

"Ain't that pitiful? You don't go out there with your shoes off. Ain't that right?" - Larry Johnson

i got a hornets starter jacket for my birthday the year l.j. got drafted. well it was a fake starter jacket, but still, much love for larry

An NBA personnel guy told me today that when they measured Love in socks (at Orlando) he kept trying to push up on his toes and they had to hold him flat to the ground. Nice try, kid.

No word yet on the mystery of how he grew 1.75 inches in sneaks. Maybe the laces were loose and he was doing the same thing, but it wasn't noticable because the shoes were flat to the ground? Is that possible? We should all try at home.

Still think he'll be a good pro -- he's got elite skills and is bull-strong. But -- too short to guard center and too slow to guard power forward?

Love is the sort who will learn every defensive trick there is in order to compensate for his lack of quickness. His timing is good. His footwork can improve and probably will. Still, he doesn't seem like a potential all-star, just one of those guys who has a ten year career by holding his own.

That Love story is awesome.

kevin lolve

i guess this is as good a place as any to ask... do yall know anything about Rick Sund? he's the new hawks GM. he's such a damn nobody that he dont even have a wikipedia article~

he was the sonics gm when they were good. he swung the gary payton for ray allen deal.

small bio.

lol, i thought "when they were good" = the payton years

yeah, after i posted that i realized i should have said "still good". and still in seattle.

Watched Kevin Love workout today against Deandre Jordan, Javale McGee and Joey Dorsey. I gotta say: He looked great.

He hit 7 of 10 from NBA three, was automatic from mid-range on another shooting drill, had several great passes and deflections in live drills, looked pretty nimble defending pick-and-rolls, and scored fairly easily on all three in post drills.

He also looked like a different person physically -- all that man-boob baby fat was gone.

Downside: Looked way shorter than I thought he would.

My lengthy report here if anyone's interested.

wow sweet dude!

how come all these guys carry around tons extra weight in college then lose it in like 2 months before the draft like its some last minute cramming

they hire trainers to get them in nba shape?

they hire trainers to make them try?

Love talked about coming back to the dorm/hotel after night games and eating fast-food and stuff. I don't think they have trainers and nutritionists all up in their business at the college level. Once they sign with an agent (officially, anyway) and start draft prep, they send them to a training center and it's all business.

"they hire trainers to get them in nba shape?"

Probably OTM.

probably missing the point of my question - willfully no doubt

No jhø, I think that's probably it. I mean they're in college and college playing shape is different than nba playing shape and, you know, they're trying to get picked a couple picks higher than they would if they were flabbier, which translates into way more $$$/year for their rookie contracts etc. So they hire a guy to get them lookin' slick and they get picked 15th instead of 20th. What otherwise was the point of your question?

that college lol fattays are lazy - almost everyone in college ball is in better shape than kevin love - if hed put a little more work in maybe ucla wins it all

how come all these guys carry around tons extra weight in college then lose it in like 2 months before the draft like its some last minute cramming

-- jhøshea, Monday, June 9, 2008 6:23 PM (Monday, June 9, 2008 6:23 PM) Bookmark Link

i would guess when they are the biggest fish in a small pond no one can tell them that they really, REALLY need to get better, be that conditioning wise or whatever. 20 year olds won't hear what they don't want to hear esp. if they have a shred of evidence to the contrary.

it boils down to kids being fucking morons.

yeah i mean if you're 19, do you want to be eating like grilled chicken breasts, unsalted almonds, and veggies and shit... or do you want a bucket of motherfuckin' popeyes???

lottery be damned, i want that spicy thigh and side of cajun fries. and a large cherry coke

What's a few hundred thou compared to my sudden desire for a bucket of hot wings?

yeah i mean if you're 19, do you want to be eating like grilled chicken breasts, unsalted almonds, and veggies and shit... or do you want a bucket of motherfuckin' popeyes???

-- phil-two, Tuesday, June 10, 2008 12:48 AM (Tuesday, June 10, 2008 12:48 AM) Bookmark Link

more like, if you're 19 and not making a dime off this billion dollar basketball season, do you want to be eating blah blah blah. once it's potential money in their pocket they're in better shape.

yeah. i read somewhere that derrick rose only eats gummy bears??

and washes them down with pint glasses of gravy.

shaq eats babies

Rose apparently had terrible eating habits. Obviously some guys are more prone to weight issues than others. Derrick Rose could eat crap at age 18 and not put on weight; Kevin Love couldn't.

"He eats Gummy Bears and Starburst for breakfast, and Twizzlers and Honey Buns for dinner. That's why his stomach hurts," fellow guard Chris Douglas-Roberts said. "We tell Derrick the whole year, 'Stop eating so many Gummy Bears and Sour Straws.' But he can't. ... Nobody eats Gummy Bears more than him."

http://lolcats.com/images/u/07/34/lolcatsdotcom3x26wat1f2fl5kv5.jpg

Saw D.J. White work out today against a couple of scrubs. He doesn't look like a 35-year-old in person.

Definitely the best late-first/early-second prospect I've seen (others so far: Casspi, Dorsey, Hendrix, Weaver). Also a cool dude -- was good-naturedly fishing for and offering up gossip on how other players are working out.

any fun trade rumors?

is there any way the bulls can get rid of larry hughes?

Today saw Anthony Randolph, Darrell Arthur, Courtney Lee and some scrubs.

Randolph threw up all kinds of red flags -- loafing, getting tired, being passive.

Courtney Lee had an awesome workout. He's a lock for the first round.

Heard that a Heat trade at #2 was unlikely. That if they want Mayo they may just take him there.

yeah there is no reason for them to risk being stuck w/ jerryd bayless or something

that's shitty to hear about randolph

imna be so o_Oing if beasley slips to 3

Randolph had a bad workout today, but you could still see the possibilities: super long, explosive when he wants to be, handles and passes like a small forward, has a chance to be a good shooter. Really has to get stronger and more focused.

Watching him and Arthur go at it, Randolph clearly looked like he had more potential, but Arthur is just way better RIGHT NOW. Of course, Randolph is still just 18, I think.

I still like him, but don't think I'd have the stones to draft him ahead of Kevin Love or Eric Gordon right now.

you a Wolves fan jhoshea?

i am a wolves fan hubie...do you have any sense of who they are leaning towards? is mayo going to miami and rose being there at 3 even a possibility?

of course, i have no doubt the wolves can hunt down and find the worst player to be drafted in the top 10 with their usual laser-like ability to find a draft day dud.

HB, any insight on what crazy big man project you figure Chris Mullin to be heheh mulling over?

vinnie del negro???

Yo Matt -- it's herrington -- I've gone incognito.

No way Rose falls to 3. All the Griz brass assumed Minny would go Lopez initially, but now it looks like Mayo is emerging as the consensus #3. Neither Mayo or Beasley is a great fit for the Wolves (duplicating Foye and Jefferson, respectively), so there's some thought that they might look to trade down for Lopez, Love, or Gallinari. I have faith that McHale will do the wrong thing.

No idea on the Warriors -- isn't that whole roster up for free agency? But DeAndre Jordan will probably still be on the board.

hiring vinny virtually assures that bulls will take rose

you a Wolves fan jhoshea?

-- Hubie Brown, Monday, June 16, 2008 3:42 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Link

no i just think beasley is by far the best player in the draft

Maybe -- the thing with Beasley and Rose is that Rose has elite size and athleticism for his NBA position and is a pretty focused, grounded guy (when not getting beat up by football players for sleeping with their girlfriends), whereas Beasley doesn't have elite size and athleticism for his NBA position and might be a knucklehead.

Still, I think Beasley is gonna be like a 22/9 guy in the pros, maybe better.

yah thing is beasley is better at basketball - rose doesnt quite seem to have the feel youd like from a #1 pick - cant shoot too good and didnt dominate in college despite superior size and athleticism - which is why imho beasley was the consensus #1 when they were actually playing basketball - now that its workout time rose is risen

btw beasley averaged 12.5rpg in 26min last year - itd be pretty shocking if he maxed out @ 9 in the pros - dude is a straight baller teams are out thinking themselves once again

The thing that impressed me most about Beasley in college is he'd get boxed out by TWO guys when shots went up — sometimes they'd FACE him — and he'd still get the offensive board and put-back. This must have happened at least a couple of times in every game I watched.

BUT, a couple of other points:

1. Rose didn't rise on workouts, he rose off his NCAA tourney performance.

2. Only 18 players averaged 9 or more boards a game last season and every single one of them (with the possible exception of Boozer) is taller than Beasley. The NBA isn't the Big 12. 9 boards a game would be impressive work for a 6'8"-6'9" power forward.

hey chris!

anyways thx for the insight...i'm still hoping for rose. but i'd take mayo over lopez...i gotta bad feeling about that guy.

eh theres a bunch of guys around beasleys size in the 9+ rebounds per game club - regardless valuing a couple inches over yr own game observations there is exactly the way teams pass on chris paul et al

id be curious to see some college/pro projection stats on how freshmen who grab a rebound every two minutes in major conference play project in the pros - id guess w/starters minutes they tend to be dominant rebounders

yah you may be right abt rose rising on his tourney performance - seems its taken a while for people to talk themselves into it tho

haha he only avg that many boards cause his team wasn't even in the top 100 for FG% and there was no one else on his squad who could grab them. 1/3 of his boards were offensive! (i'm not totally serious here, but college stats are overrated/valued)

eh ive seen some pretty good projections college > pros - big thing is adjusting for age

eh ive seen some pretty good projections college > pros - big thing is adjusting for age

-- jhøshea, Tuesday, June 17, 2008 3:31 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

true, and rebounding translates better than most cats -- not debating whether Beasley will be a high-level rebounder (and scorer), but, still, not that many guys, especially at under 6'9" are double-digit rebounders in the NBA. Maybe Beasley is another Barkley in this regard. Wouldn't be shocked.

FWIW -- Kevin Love had a rebound-rate similar to Beasley's as a true freshman in a major conference last season.

Why doesn't Miami want Beasley again?

they already have marion and haslem? though he would be an obvs upgrade to haslem, but i think they need a PG pretty badly?

what are the bulls gonna do if they draft Rose? all those guards... Derrick Rose, Hinrich, Ben Gordon, Larry Hughes, Thabo Sefalosha....

chad ford, today:

One source close to the process says Pat Riley thinks Rose is a bad fit in the backcourt with Dwyane Wade, because drafting Rose would give Miami two athletic slashers who (a) are subpar shooters and (b) would have to try to share the ball. That source insists the Heat are bluffing about their interest in Rose in the hopes that Beasley falls to them at No. 2.

lol

FWIW -- Kevin Love had a rebound-rate similar to Beasley's as a true freshman in a major conference last season.

-- Hubie Brown, Tuesday, June 17, 2008 4:41 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Link

yah its possible im just hating on love - tho ive said before i think his problems are more to do w/being a tweener on the defensive end

although beasley also will prob not be a great defender

"they already have marion and haslem? though he would be an obvs upgrade to haslem, but i think they need a PG pretty badly?"

Yeah, but we are assuming that Rose ain't getting to them and Mayo's not a PG (and isn't he redundant with Wade anyway.) I mean seriously you are going to let Haslem prevent you from drafting the best player?!?! Seems weird to me.

one of those guards would have to go, phil. i'd say hinrich is the odd man out because a) hughes' contract makes him hard to move b) other teams expressed interest in hinrich more than any other bull last year c) thabo is needed for his height/ability to defend big 2's and his versatility d) gordon needed as the only great shooter on the team e) i would rip paxson's balls off if he trades bg or thabo and not kirk.

I don't think Hinrich will be that hard to deal -- he's better than he showed last season and his contract as a declining salary structure.

x-post: I agree that being a defensive tweener is Love's biggest problem. He's not gonna be able to handle 6'10" and taller scorers on the block or come out on the Chris Boshes of the world.

Who's interested in Hinrich and any names thrown out as trade bait? I remember hearing Hinrich + Noah/Tyrus/Somebody/Gooden for Shawn Marion but that was probably sam smith talking....

according to the chicago tribune beasley measured six foot seven inches, three inches shorter than he was listed in college.

eh somewhere on espn they show his standing reach to be not great but within acceptable parameters ie not undersized

He's 6'8" in shoes with a decent wingspan. A little undersized, but such a beast it shouldn't be too big a problem. Certainly, he's built more like Lebron and Melo than Duncan and KG.

Certainly, he's built more like Lebron and Melo than Duncan and KG.

which makes me think the bulls would lean towards rose.

hollingers draft projections

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2008/insider/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=DraftRater-080620

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2008/insider/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=DraftRater-080622

he loves loves loves beasley thinks love will be v good and isnt as psyched abt rose as most

o and he thinks mayo sux

according to the local sunday night sports shows the bulls were set to start negotiating with rose until they brought beasley in for a workout. apparently he was jaw-droppingly good and it made them think twice, even with vinny del negro saying he wants to run and push the ball this year.

If I had a top five pick I wouldn't pick Mayo, unless it was for a preset draft-and-trade deal I liked.

shit, i keep forgetting that the draft is only 3 days from now.

while my love for mario chalmers knows no bounds, i'm kind of curious as to what he's been doing in workouts to make chad ford project him all the way up at #12. this usually seems like the point in the draft process where teams convince themselves of all sorts of wacky stuff.

i had a huge argument w/ my brother today abt mayo v. beasley re: the heat. imo they'd be crazy to take mayo over beasley (i think mayo will be a pretty good pro) bcuz there is literally no track record of a group of swingmen like mayo + wade + marion getting past the second round of the playoffs. what is the ceiling for a heat team like that? are they even better than kidd + carter + jefferson were? are they better than arenas + butler + jamison? both of those groups couldn't even get into the east finals. meanwhile beasley could put up boozer like numbers, and i think a pairing of wade + boozer (aka beasley in this comparison) in two years (not even incl new draft picks or free agents) could make some srs noise in the east post-celtics/pistons reign. i think people, most importantly pat riley and dwayne wade, are forgetting that they won the championship w/ jason williams and gary payton at pg. wade doesn't need a great or even a v good point guard for them to be successful.

and in my scenario im reaching wrt to mayo's potential and i still don't think they are better than the wizards 3

or when the wizards 3 were at full-strength

some theorize the heat are bluffing abt their beasley hate in order to trick the bulls into passing on him

thing is u dont really have to trick the bulls into doing the wrong thing - they come by it naturally

were i beasley id dog the bulls workout and give it my all for miami - playing w/dwayne wade is a lot better than fucking w/the bulls right

there's only one way the bulls can fuck up this draft and that would be selecting anyone other than beasley or rose with the first pick.

i would be floored if the bulls didnt take rose

my brother told me there have been rumors on miami radio about the heat trading for heinrich

or at least signing duhon

can someone link me to a decent piece that argues that beasley isnt the best pick available? i dont follow the nba well closely enough to get the logic

i get rose as being a relatively safe pick but it seems kinda obvious that when yr playing to win & you have a choice b/w safe & freak you take the freak, & its not like beasley has a lower floor than rose in any way, quite the opposite

rose has more upside than beasley, BEASLEY is the safe pick.

safer, i should say.

lol how on earth does roes have more upside than beasley?? anyone? any single fucking reason?

the skills of a 6' 7" power forward vs the skills of a 6' 2" point guard? really? do you have any idea of the responsibilities of the two positions??? if not then it will take someone more qualified than me to explain it to you.

you see beasley as a power forward? really? do YOU have any idea of HIS skills or the responsibilities of partic. positions??

pretty much everybody sees beasley as a power forward, though I do wonder if he doesn't have a future as a beefy, powerful three in the Melo/Jamal Mashburn mode.

Watching old drafts on NBA TV is addictive. I just watched the Kings select the Player Formerly Known As Oliver Saint-Jean.

Watching old drafts on NBA TV is addictive.

oh man i was doing some wikipedia shit on old drafts on the T-wolves...jesus the players that were still on the board when we selected some chump were HEARTBREAKING

Hubie,

Whatchoo think about the T-Wolves trading down (for maybe another 2nd rounder) and grabbing DJ Augustin?

you see beasley as a power forward? really? do YOU have any idea of HIS skills or the responsibilities of partic. positions??

fuck yes i see him as a power forward. where do you see him playing? second base? left wing? tight end?

im w/ kev on this one

ppl comparing to melo are really off in some nba live world imo-- he's much more of a banger, boozer type

boozer?? did you watch him play college ball? he was worthless outside of 10 feet

the diff in versatility b/w him & beasley is beyond comparison really

and if you think beasley is gonna be jacking up 5 threes a game in the nba and slashing from the three point line like melo you are equally as crazy

btw boozer can shoot outside of 10

He couldn't (or didn't) in college.

I would love to see DJ Augustin drop to 13 where the blazers could pluck him up. Right now we start Steven Blake, who is a damn fine journeyman, and solid, but has no all-star potential whatsoever. Augustin could really be something once he gets his rookie minutes behind him.

Josh (St. Paul): Do you really think Love is better than Mayo?

John Hollinger: (3:34 PM ET ) Absolutely. Bigs with his skill set are extremely rare; 6-4 guys who can handle the ball are relatively common.

I love Augustin. I worry that his size/frame might cause problems (a la T.J. Ford or Brevin Knight), but he's fast, can shoot, and just has the knack for making plays you look for in a point guard.

I DON'T like the prospects of a Augustin/Foye backcourt (x-post to M@tt) -- too small. Then again, I'm not crazy about Foye, period.

Man, those T-Wolves drafts: Paul Grant, William Avery, Ndudi Ebi. And Corey Brewer looks GREAT so far!

Hearing lots of Beasley to Grizzlies rumors, even before the Chad Ford post today.

??????

HB i wasnt trying to be a dick or anything, can you link me to a decent article or articles that argues for this bs in a reasonable way?

what specific BS are you referring to?

ha - specifically, the bs that beasley isnt fit to be a #1 draft pick

I don't know that anyone believes that Beasley isn't fit to be a #1 draft pick, except for maybe Pat Riley. A lot of people do think D.Rose is the better all-around prospect for four reasons:

1. He's got a better combo of size and athleticism relative to his NBA position.
2. He'll be an impact player on both ends of the floor instead of one.
3. Point guards are more important than power forwards
4. He's not a knucklehead.

I'm torn myself. I think Beasley is going to be a dynamic scoring/rebounding machine and am hopeful the Grizzlies (my forlorn hometown team) can swing a deal to get him.

The Chad Ford/Bill Simmons interactive draft thing on ESPN.com has a decent discussion of Rose vs. Beasley.

It's all some crazy ass make-up argument. I don't think any pundits are arguing for it, but it's clear somehow that Riley doesn't think that Beasley is mature enough basically for the NBA (or for the Heat.)

Second-round prospect Shan Foster's NBA draft song:

link

My favorite part is when he sings about "watch me slam" when I went to his draft workout in Memphis and he wasn't able to dunk at the end of a lay-up drill despite like 5 attempts.

that's smooth stuff! shan foster: moving up the draft boards

Augustin's size will matter on the defensive end, but not on offense. His court vision and quickness are excellent. The best you can hope for on defense is that he'll be a disrupter, but not a stopper.

Ndudi Ebi
Ndudi Ebi
Ndudi Ebi
Ndudi Ebi
Ndudi Ebi
Ndudi Ebi
Ndudi Ebi
Ndudi Ebi
^^this motherfucker

http://forum.goazcats.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=154&d=1056430253

That's him (right), right?

Please everybody click on that Shan Foster link -- I swear I'm going to singing that all week. It should totally be the theme song of the draft telecast.

I'll feel terrible if he doesn't get drafted, though.

things are getting interesting...sounds like riley really covets mayo...

huh man what if the t-wolves end up getting beasley at 3!

They do a rousing cheer for themselves for somehow managing to steal the best player in the draft.

Mock draft for players already in the NBA

kinda fun read

Except he's wrong with just about every pick (except the first one.)

Today's Oregonian newspaper has a projection of which team will draft which players, showing the Blazers drafting some center from France named Alexis Ajinca. For a couple of moments I'm all WTF!! We've already got Oden and Pryzbilla for chrissakes.

Then I realize, it's just a piece of artful misinformation, designed to throw a smokescreen over whoever it is the Blazers really covet.

Incidentally, they projected Seattle taking Brook Lopez and Memphis picking up Love.

Riles is pretty crazy if he really thinks a backcourt of Wade and Mayo is a good idea.

i dont get the fascination with pairing wade with some "star pg"-- i dont even like the heat and i was grab pat riley by the face and remind him that he won an nba championship w/ a pg who averaged 12 pts and 4 assists a game

and i want to grab

they either should take beasley or swap picks with the grizzlies (while picking up miller and conley) and take lopez at 5

I would grab Riley by the face on very little pretext. He needs this done much more often.

yeah wade/mayo would be like the randolph/curry of the backcourt.

interesting interview with majeris on my local sports talk station, kfan

http://a1135.g.akamai.net/f/1135/18227/1h/cchannel.download.akamai.com/18227/podcast/MINNEAPOLIS-MN/KFAN-AM/BAR062508_majerus.mp3?CPROG=PCAST&MARKET=MINNEAPOLIS-MN&NG_FORMAT=sports&SITE_ID=612&STATION_ID=KFAN-AM&PCAST_AUTHOR=KFAN_AM_1130&PCAST_CAT=Sports_Radio&PCAST_TITLE=Dan_Barreiro_-_KFAN_AM_1130

It's draft day. Hurray. Hurry, sundown!

TIMBERWOLVES DON'T TRY TO GET FUCKING CUTE AND DO ONE OF YOUR CLASSIC STUPID DRAFT DAY TRADE BULLSHIT.

ROSE. BEASLEY. MAYO. = THREE PLAYERS, THREE PICKS.

TAKE WHATEVER FUCKING DUDE FALLS TO YOU AND DON'T TRY YOU USE YOUR FUCKING BRAIN MCHALE.

REAL TALK.

one weird thing abt the rose hype is apart over every argument is rose can score and distribute but he didnt do either in any sort of exceptional way in college and he shot poorly from the college 3.

when chirs paul went #4 its was cause dudes ahead of him played more important positions or were bigger and more athletic

now apparently point guard is the most important position and rose is bigger and more athletic

o_O O_o o_O

also lol rose brought in to run the offense of a team comprised of a bunch of non-scoring motherfuckers - this gonna be ugly at first. not saying he cant develop but his ceiling seems to be borderline allstar 2nd tier point guard type - more in the tony parker range than deron willaims. and all those dreaming of chris paul lol be serious.

i think beasley will put up big numbers yeah, but one of those allstars who never helps you get to an nba finals

bulls better not fuck this up. its like our due for getting high picks in shitty years (marcus fizer? tyrus thomas?)

see, i kinda think the bull should go with beasley...

i think they have pretty good guards as it is...

p2 is clearly runnin someones draft board

no offense phil but thats the kind of draft mentality i hate in all sports - just go with the talent. its weird that you can argue people overthink multimillion dollar decisions but it happens every year & usually not for the best.

its the 33% from 18 feet that worries me the most abt rose - off the top of my head the only #1 worthy perimeter player in the nba now who doesnt shoot at least pretty well from long range is wade

not totally sold on mayo as lock @ 3 either - he may be a good pick there but i dont think hes omg so much better than a bunch of other guys

jason kidd? hey its like 1994. glenn robinson #1 and jason kidd #2.. ok so kidd didnt sniff a championship either, but still...

actually either way, the bulls will come out winners.. better than getting stuck with deandre jordan or whatever at #9

and as for the attitude thing i can certainly understand the worry abt beasely - but on the other hand i dont think roses i am teh nice determined young man who will help u win championships is exactly the thing yr looking for either - its too calculated. youve got to have some sort of joy and swagger to really make it happen (unless yr the alien robot timmy duncan)

jason kidd? hey its like 1994. glenn robinson #1 and jason kidd #2.. ok so kidd didnt sniff a championship either, but still...

-- phil-two, Thursday, June 26, 2008 1:37 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

yah i meant dominant now - game done change since kidd was on top

and the glen robinson comparisons are cute and all cause of w/kidd getting drafted after him but theres not really a lot there

also chicagoans wont forgive pax if they beasley, he turns out solid but unspectacular, and chicago homeboy becomes a superstar in miami.. not that that should make a difference.... but if its the other way around, then hey at least we all wanted it anyway!

well obvs it was a flippant comment. i dont really know what im talking about.

i draft my fantasy basketball players based on looks

and fwiw kidd killed his suns teams in the playoffs for years w/sub 40% shooting then he got traded to the eastern conference at its absolute nadir and made it to the finals twice winning two games total w/teams that wouldnt have made it out of the 2nd round in the west and rehabed his reputation is the process

i mean when kidd was traded people were not all omg 1st ballot hofer traded for marbury wtf

i draft my fantasy basketball players based on looks

-- phil-two, Thursday, June 26, 2008 1:44 PM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

lol whod u pick #1

I might be sadly mistaken, but isn't part of the reasoning process behind Taking The Best Athlete Available that then you have, if not precisely the best fit for your team, then at least the best trade bait for acquiring the players you really need?

If building a good team were as easy as randomly grabbing one good athlete after another in the draft and then even Kevin McHale might be able to do it.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2008/insider/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=Tiers-080619

chad ford on the tiered ranking system

If building a good team were as easy as randomly grabbing one good athlete after another in the draft and then even Kevin McHale might be able to do it.

-- Aimless, Thursday, June 26, 2008 5:54 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

yeah but that's FAR from what mchale does...he likes all that "basketball intelligence" and "character" and "hardworking" bullshit...uggggg

its like our due for getting high picks in shitty years (marcus fizer? tyrus thomas?)

I though the deal w/ TT wasn't so much him being a bust as it was Skiles & Co. giving his minutes away to Wallace-esque stiffs despite TT actually producing in the limited PT he rec'd (and TT sorta earning his lack of PT by being somewhat fuckwitty in an insubordinate "talking about practice" fashion).

FWIW, I know sweet FA about the draft, but I really wish TNT was handling the coverage instead of Stuart "One Word" Scott. </challop>

yah stu scott is teh dregs

"basketball intelligence"? Ah, yes. I think the proper comment there is: it takes one to know one.

lol whod u pick #1

well... i remember getting peja stojakavich (holla at me!), pau gasol (hey papi!), tony parker (pump pump!) in the first three rounds. i was looking for damon bailey but i guess hes not in the NBA anymore. dwyane wade was taken though

i forgot who else i had. i remember it skewing a bit on the white side though

mchale's newest buzzword (cuz i think he's in love with kevin love) is "small area quickness"...which i guess is supposed to mean that someone who is slow isn't really slow or something like that.

not totally sold on mayo as lock @ 3 either - he may be a good pick there but i dont think hes omg so much better than a bunch of other guys

-- jhøshea, Thursday, June 26, 2008 12:32 PM (42 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

^^this-- i think someone else brought this up elsewhere (maybe simmons) but im hell of wary about the idea of o.j. mayo-- who's been hearing jordan if not kobe comparisons since he was probably 15-- turning into this incredible distributing rondo-like point guard. the dude wants to get his and he wants to be a star with shoe deals and gatorade ads so idk if he's really all that keen on becoming a 15-7-4 guy or whatever this pipe dream is that riley/mchale etc. have about him. becoming a rondo type would be GREAT for him, the problem is that he isn't going into a place with a garnett or a pierce, nor a place where he is going to have step his game up immediately or sit. beyond beasley and rose i think this is the most hit-or-miss draft of the decade.

yeah but that's FAR from what mchale does...he likes all that "basketball intelligence" and "character" and "hardworking" bullshit...uggggg

-- M@tt He1ges0n, Thursday, June 26, 2008 1:00 PM (Thursday, June 26, 2008 1:00 PM) Bookmark Link

if you don't factor for those things though you wind up with derrick "whoop de damn doo" coleman and the oh so aptly named big dog robinson.

jhosea, you're speaking like "talent" is an easily quantifiable/observable cut-n-dry thing. (offensive)stats != talent.
i wouldn't be too concerned about how well-regarded of a shooter a pick is. that's one of the easiest things to improve on.

If the Wolves pick Love, it would be a pity. The Wolves are fast becoming the Junior Clippers. He'd be much better off in Seattle or Memphis.

in a weird way, even though i don't like the guy, i think whoever ends up pulling the trigger on brooke lopez is gonna come outta here smelling like roses in 3 years when the kings and the grizzlies are scratching their heads wondering what happened with anthony randolph and jerryd bayless. it's funny that no one can peg this draft, which means that there aren't any real consensuses on that many players in this draft amongst front offices, and i've kind of liked the idea of lopez as a guy with fixed potential. if he even ends up like chris kaman he'll be one of the top 5 players in this draft imo. i think the bobcats would be crazy to pass on him for love-- who i like a lot-- cuz you can really go to war with lopez and okafor down low.

i wouldn't be too concerned about how well-regarded of a shooter a pick is. that's one of the easiest things to improve on.

-- Granny Dainger, Thursday, June 26, 2008 2:23 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Link

lol tell it to jason kidd rajon rondo and tons of dudes sitting on nba benches

yeah but that's FAR from what mchale does...he likes all that "basketball intelligence" and "character" and "hardworking" bullshit...uggggg

-- M@tt He1ges0n, Thursday, June 26, 2008 1:00 PM (Thursday, June 26, 2008 1:00 PM) Bookmark Link

if you don't factor for those things though you wind up with derrick "whoop de damn doo" coleman and the oh so aptly named big dog robinson.

-- chicago kevin, Thursday, June 26, 2008 6:21 PM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

Yeah yeah I mean I wasn't saying that those things aren't important...what I more meant is that McHale thinks he's smart enough to evaluate these things and he's not. So yeah as a longtime T-Wolves fan I'm like just take the guy that scored a shitload in college and go with God.

espn.com can eat a dick for making chad ford's chat insider only

darrick coleman is the boogieman of the nba draft - when you have to keep wheeling out the same guy to illustrate a point you might be overstating its importance

here u go buddy

SportsNation Chad Ford: Aloha everyone. Well it's finally here. Happy Draft Day everyone. It's my favorite day of the year. For one day, every team is a contender. Everyone has hope. There's so much trade chatter, draft talk, etc. I'll try to share everything I have. Be patient. My phone is ringing constantly and I'll try to pass along any information I get ... let's roll.

John (Providence, RI): Do you think that Pat Riley is playing a "Jedi mind trick" on John Paxson and the Bulls in that they really want Beasley and they don't want him going #1?

SportsNation Chad Ford: Ummm ... I don't think so. But it's an interesting theory. Pat Riley has really played poker on this. Ditto for John Paxson. I think Rose is going No. 1 ... but it would be funny if, by dogging Beasley, he somehow influenced the Bulls. Interesting.

Ric Andrews (Lindenhurst, IL): Chad, What would the Bulls have to give up for Wade? Would the #1 pick be necessary, or could they get a deal done without it?

SportsNation Chad Ford: I don't think the Bulls are getting Dwyane Wade, though it certainly is a rumor that has been making the rounds among NBA GMs. They'd have to give up No. 1, Tyrus Thomas, Drew Gooden's expiring contract and filler to get him. I'd do it if I were the Bulls. But I think the Heat aren't that crazy.

Dave (Menomonee Falls, WI): Chad - I keep hearing this rumor of the Bulls making a play for #2. First, could it really happen and second, would some combination of Hinrich, Deng and Gordon get it done?

SportsNation Chad Ford: If they really wanted to make that play for Beasley, they'd have to wait until the summer and then talk sign-and-trade with Deng or Gordon. You couldn't do it right now. I'm sure Pat Riley would listen.

Matt (Boston): Lets say Bulls take Rose. Heat take beasley. Which team will be better off next year?

SportsNation Chad Ford: Heat. First, they have Dwyane Wade and Shawn Marion. Two All-Stars. Second, Beasley will have a bigger impact in year one. His game is just more ready. That's why I didn't understand why the Heat wouldn't do this trade.

Jarred (DC): Chad, Please tell me the Heat aren't going to get any suitable offers so the "have to" hold onto the pick and take Beasley?

SportsNation Chad Ford: So far ... that's how it looks. They don't have a trade yet. I think they'd be happy with a deal that nets them either O.J. Mayo or Jerryd Bayless and gives them some cap relief by taking Mark Blount off their hands. Seattle could reciprocate (they could send Chris Wilcox). So could Minnesota (they could send back Antoine Walker's expiring deal). If I were Minnesota or Seattle, I'd do that deal in a heartbeat. But as of right now ... sounds like the Heat and Wolves and Sonics are all playing chicken.

Jason (TN): Mr Ford, do you see the Heat trading Marion, and if so, will it be primarily for another lottery pick (and filler), or would Riley look to grab another established star (ala Odom, Brand, or Boozer)?

SportsNation Chad Ford: No one is trading a lottery pick for Marion with the possible exception of the Clippers in a larger Elton Brand deal. Marion is a free agent next summer and he wants A LOT of money. Most teams won't give it to him which means they'd lose him in a year. More likely the Heat find a trade partner like the Lakers (for Lamar Odom) or the Sixers (for Andre Miller and change) etc.

Rikki (Minneapolis): What is the latest trade talk concerning the 3rd and the Wolves? Please tell me McHale will just take Mayo and run..

SportsNation Chad Ford: That's what the Wolves are saying. They're taking Mayo. I'm not sure whether that's true or whether it's a negotiating ploy. I know the are enamored with Kevin Love. If they take Mayo, they could try to pick up an asset and select him later ... though with all the trade talk swirling it sounds like Love not be on the board after No. 5.

Steve, Omaha: The sonics continually have gotten burned by taking centers high in the draft. Brook Lopez looks like a perfect fit for this to happen again. What points to Lopez working out any better than Swift, Sene, etc...

SportsNation Chad Ford: He's much more experienced and skilled than either Robert Swift or Saer Sene. He averaged nearly 20 ppg in the Pac 10. I think it's a safe pick. I think their heart is with Russell Westbrook however. They have an offer from the Clippers that would give them No. 7 and a future first. I think they should take it and then draft either Lopez or Westbrook or Bayless ... whoever's left on the board.

Chase, Memphis: What is the likelihood the Grizzlies pick 5 and 28? In other words will the myriad of trade rumors yield nothing?

SportsNation Chad Ford: I think the likelihood is HIGH that they trade their pick. I just posted a story on ESPN.com about it. They are in talks with the Nets about a swap that would send No. 5 to NJ for the No. 10 pick and a future first rounder from NJ. They are also talking to the Blazers about a swap that would give them No. 13 and a player like Travis Outlaw. From what I can gather, the Knicks trade talk is dead after David Lee's agent basically told Memphis he wasn't interested in signing with them when he hits free agency next summer. And yes ... there's still a possibility they could get No. 2 from Miami. But from what I hear, it looks like it's a longshot.

With the exception of the Beasley deal the one thing all of the proposed deals has in common is that the Grizzlies save money. I think they have accountants analyzing their draft now.

Knicks(NY): what is the knicks going to do with the 6th pick?? any ideas??

SportsNation Chad Ford: Donnie Walsh has played it close to the vest. I think they are deciding between three players: Gallinari, Westbrook and Eric Gordon. I think I've listed them in the correct order.

Pete, NJ: Do the Knicks have the possibility of trading up? Or even down if they can get rid of some salary in the process?

SportsNation Chad Ford: They are trying to get up a few spots in the draft. But right now it's tough. They have two chips. They have two expiring contracts (Marbury and Malik Rose's) and are willing to take back a contract as long as it expires in the summer of 2010. Their other asset is Lee. But Walsh has to be careful how he uses it. Once it's gone, the Knicks don't have a lot of chips to work with.

Mark: Chad, what offers have the Clippers made to try and move up in this draft?

SportsNation Chad Ford: They've been trying to get up to 3 or 4 to select O.J. Mayo, or if he's off the board, Eric Gordon. But so far, no cigar. If they stand pat I think they'll take either Gordon, Bayless or Westbrook.

John (WISC): What are the Bucks looking to do with their pick? Any news on Redd being dealt?

SportsNation Chad Ford: I think if Kevin Love is on the board, they'll have a tough time passing on him. If he's gone, Joe Alexander is the likely pick. As for Redd, they don't have a good deal yet. The Cavs are interested in Redd, but the y don't have anything but expiring contracts to offer back in return. I think the Bucks want more.

Mike (Charlotte, NC): The Bobcats just picked up #20. Is the plan to package with #9 and try and move up, or sit back and hope Hibbert falls to them at 20?

SportsNation Chad Ford: They have been trying to move up as well, but I'm not sure how far #9 and #20 can get them. Their targets are Kevin Love or Russell Westbrook. They'll be stuck if both of those guys are off the board at No. 9 and could just swing for the fences and try to grab Anthony Randolph here. At 20 ... they'll go Roy Hibbert if he's there. If he's gone, I've heard Jason Thompson of Rider or Alexis Ajinca.

Jon (NYC): Chad, who would the Nets be targeting at #5?

SportsNation Chad Ford: Kevin Love I think. They also like Gallinari and Russell Westbrook. Their fear is that none of the guys they like will be there at No. 10. I think it's a legitimate fear. If they had to include No. 21 in the deal, I'd do it to get to No. 5. At 21 I think they'll go either Hickson or Anderson.

Sean (Spokane): What do you think of the Raptors-Pacers deal?

SportsNation Chad Ford: I think it's a win-win deal. I think the Pacers walk away with three things: a great player (Ford), a young prospect (17th pick) and lots of cap space in 2009. That's the holy trinity in a trade. And I think the Raptors get a potentially dominating big man if Jermaine O'Neal is healthy. This is cleary a case of one man's trash is another man's treasure. I think this trade will make both teams much better next year. So much for all of those haters that said Larry Bird doesn't have game as a GM. This was a very sophisticated move. Better than I thought the Pacers could get for O'Neal.

Justin (Indy): How do you see the Pacers draft unfolding...can fans expect any trades to move up in the draft?

SportsNation Chad Ford: I think everything is on the board now. I'd expect them to go big at 11 ... maybe Kosta Koufos, Darrell Arthur or Robin Lopez. Personally, I'd take Brandon Rush here, I think he'd be a great fit next to T.J. in their backcourt. As for 17 ... if they go big at 11 I think they'll get a point guard like Mario Chalmers at 17. If they go guard, they'll look at the best big on the board: Arthur, Lopez or maybe Roy Hibbert.

Don, Sacramento: Does the Pacers trade for TJ Ford mean that Augustin will be available to the Kings?

SportsNation Chad Ford: There's a great chance of that. The Blazers are trying to move ahead of Sacramento to get him, but if they can't pull off a deal, then he falls in the Kings lap at 12. Also there's an outside chance that Jerryd Bayless could be there. They'd love that. If both guys are gone I hear it's between Roy Hibbert and Donte Greene.

Tyler (Woodland, WA): What are you hearing about the Blazers this morning? Any activity?

SportsNation Chad Ford: Yeah .. Kevin "Dr. Deal" Pritchard is talking to everyone. Honestly, he has as much energy and creativity as any GM I've ever met. The guy is constantly trying to make his team better. His philosophy of gathering assets is a good one. It sets him up for bigger deals down the road. I suspect they'll get something done to move up a few spots and get Augustin or Westbrook. At 27, look for them to go international with either Nicolas Batum, Ante Tomic or Serge Ibaka.

Leilani (Kappa, Kauai, HI): Aloha Chad. Any chance the Warriors use that big trade exemption and the #14 pick to land someone or move up in the draft?

SportsNation Chad Ford: There's my girl from Hawaii representing right there. A quick shout out to all of my ohana in the islands. Great memory on that huge trade exception ... I don't think they use it. I think they go Koufos or Greene or Lopez or Thompson here. Obviously that's kind of vauge. Shows you how strong my sources in Golden State are.

SportsNation Chad Ford: ... hold for a second, got to take this call.

H.B. (Tempe, AZ): Chadwick - any moves for the Suns with Barbosa or Diaw? Or just sticking at 15 and hoping for Rush or the "other Lopez."

SportsNation Chad Ford: They've been trying to move Barbosa and Diaw but they're struggling to get a deal that works. Hearing they want Brandon Rush and have been trying to move up to make sure they get him. Robin Lopez is a possibility. So is Anthony Randolph.

Cory, Philadelphia: What is the best option for the Sixers at 16?

SportsNation Chad Ford: ???? tough choice. I like Darrell Arthur there personally if he's still on the board. I hear they're flirting with DeAndre Jordan ... but I'm becoming more and more skeptical about that.

SportsNation Chad Ford: ... phone

Ken (New Braunfels, TX): Is there any truth to the rumor that the Rockets are trading their pick at 25 along with Luther Head, to the Wizards for their pick at 18??

SportsNation Chad Ford: The Wizards and Rockets have had talks but nothing is done. I do think the Wizards are trying to move this pick ... they're talking to several teams in the 20s but Rockets look like their best option right now.

Matt , Cleveland: Hope you voice is better today than last night on ESPNEWS. Danny Ferry sounds like there is a lot of pressure on tonight to get something done. Are the Cavs sticking around 19 or will they be able to make a bigger move? I am not really interested in these big man projects at this point in the draft and would rather see them take someone who could score or defend like CDR

SportsNation Chad Ford: Yeah ... my voice is going. They've tried to move up to get Kosta Koufos. He could be here at No. 19 or Brook Lopez or Roy Hibbert. In other words I think they go big. Only guard that would entice them is Chalmers.

Ignacio (San Juan, PR): Hey Chad, Any news on the Orlando Magic. They really need a PG and a PF. Who are they targeting at 22, any chance of a trade that nets them a solid vet?

SportsNation Chad Ford: Sounds like they love Courtney Lee. But they're also looking at bigs like Marreese Speights.

Andy (Savannah): Hey Chad, hear anything about the Jazz? Who do they take today? Any chance they move up?

SportsNation Chad Ford: They're hoping Hibbert falls to them there. I don't think he will. It will be between Ante Tomic, Alexis Ajinca and maybe DeAndre Jordan and JaVale McGee. In other words, they're going big.

Gerardo (Tempe, AZ): Professor, where does N. Batum go? Any chance he falls to the Spurs at 26?

SportsNation Chad Ford: I think there's a good chance that Batum is the Spurs pick at 26. Unlike Tiago Splitter, he can come and play in the NBA now. They also really like Cal's Ryan Anderson.

Tom (Worcester, MA): Hey Chad, what's in store for the Hornets after trading their pick?

SportsNation Chad Ford: Look for them to make a run at a two guard in free agency. I'm sure Ben Gordon is near the top of their list, but he's a restricted free agent so it would have to be some sort of sign-and-trade.

Micho (Lansing, MI): Hey Chad, any word out of Detroit on what the Pistons will do tonight? Any trades brewing?

SportsNation Chad Ford: They flirted with moving up, but it sounds like they are standing pat at 29 as we speak. I think they hope Jason Thompson falls to them. If he doesn't, maybe they'll take a flier on one of these young bigs like Jordan or McGee. Hickson is another possibility if he's there.

Joe (NY): Chad what can the Celtics do to improve their scoring off the bench?? Will CDR or Lee be there at 30??

SportsNation Chad Ford: I think one of them could be there and it would be a great pick up for the Celtics. Either one of those guys could play now. Danny Ainge is a great drafter. I think you're in good hands.

SportsNation Chad Ford: Well that's everyone in the first round. I've got to get back to working the phones everyone. Thanks to our users for more than 5000 questions in an hour. Wow! Join us back here at ESPN.com at 7 p.m. for our live draft analysis. I'll be breaking down every pick in the draft live and then later that evening handing out grades to each team. It should be fun!

http://civilizer.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/middle-finger-of-the-apocalypse.jpg

Brook Lopez will be a perfectly presentable big man. He'll eventually work his way up to being somewhere in the 50th to 60th percentile of NBA starting centers. That's a nice pick, but not one to get anyone's juices flowing.

Love is smallish and he'll have to change position, but whatever spot he takes, he's going to grow into and fill solidly before his three year rookie contract expires. When he becomes a free agent is when you really want to sign him, but he'll only sign with you if you have a legitimate shot at the Finals. He can't get you there, but he will look for a place where he can be a middle-sized piece of a championship-caliber team.

thx j

hey espn.com, tell me how my ass tastes

lol aimless u has crystal ball?

doesn't everyone? not that it works worth a damn...

A quick shout out to all of my ohana in the islands.

<3 chad ford

However, I knew Adam Morrison and Rudy Gaye would be pretty much washouts, compared to their reps.

most crystal balls dont have second contract destination motivation powerz tho - and rudy gay is on the cusp of stardom

yeah rudy gay is igoudala with a jump shot-- this is a very good thing

Maybe Aimless means Randy Foye? Or what jho & j0 said.

nah, I meany gaye, not foye. I've never paid any attention to foye. you see my powers of discernment for their true worth here.

man i'm sad that none of those nova dudes panned out-- i really liked foye and lowry coming outta school. maybe one of them will turn into a jannero pargo type down the road.

ps it's Rudy GAY no "e"

btw gay who was the rumored #1 pick all year slipped to 8th on "character issues" - in this case cowardice - and was picked behind Andrea Bargnani LaMarcus Aldridge Adam Morrison Tyrus Thomas Shelden Williams Brandon Roy and Randy Foye

roy is the only guy on that list looking like he has a good shot of being better than gay and thats far from a lock

man i'm sad that none of those nova dudes panned out-- i really liked foye and lowry coming outta school. maybe one of them will turn into a jannero pargo type down the road.

-- J0rdan S., Thursday, June 26, 2008 2:55 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

a lot of people still like lowry - tho im not sure why

i buy the character issues argument in a way, especially if we're talking about work ethic, cuz for every rudy gay there's a zach randolph. but what i don't get wrt to the heat is that they'd be bringing beasley into a very very veteran team, esp. in the frontcourt. udonis haslem is a dude who worked his way up from an undrafted FA to a solid and coveted nba starter, zo has worked his way back from the kidney thing etc. i think it would be a really good environment for him, and with wade and marion there would be little to no pressure on him.

Those character issues could still sneak up and bite gay, once he has played his way into a big second contract. I can easily recall how Darius Miles played for the first several months when he first came to the Blazers, and how he played the minute he had a big contract in his pocket. I would hope gay doesn't do the same thing. Maybe he's matured.

The Bucks have agreed in principle to trade Yi Jianlian to the Nets for Richard Jefferson, a league source told SI.com's Ian Thomsen. DEVELOPING STORY

also the clippers have traded the 7 and their 09 first rounder to the sonics for the 4?

Maybe Aimless means Randy Foye? Or what jho & j0 said.

-- David R., Thursday, June 26, 2008 6:53 PM (20 minutes ago) Bookmark LinkM

honestly i'm as down on the t-wolves trading brandon roy for randy foye as anyone....BUT...honestly Foye hasn't been nearly as bad as the common perception seems to be...his biggest problem has really been staying healthy, he's played some very good basketball (and some mediocre basketball), but i think calling him and out and out bust right now is REALLY unfair (especially if you haven't -- as i'd imagine any sane person not from MN hasn't -- watched much T-wolves)

After early speculation that the Knicks might move up in Thursday's draft, the latest indications are that the team is in discussions to move down. According to executives with two teams, the Knicks are discussing a swap of first-round picks with Portland. The Knicks would send the No. 6 pick, forward David Lee and another player to the Trail Blazers for the 13th and 27th picks and a player, possibly Steve Blake or Jarrett Jack. (Portland is acquiring the 27th pick from New Orleans.) Lee was also reportedly dangled in a proposed trade with Memphis for the No. 5 pick, a sign that he is not part of the Knicks' long-term plans.

So the Knicks are using David Lee as a chip to MOVE DOWN in the draft?

Also, I guess the Nets also got Bobby Simmons.

lol tell it to jason kidd rajon rondo and tons of dudes sitting on nba benches

lol tell it to michael jordan karl malone and tones of dudes sitting in nba hall of fame. easy to improve doesn't translate to EVERYONE improves on it.

so other guys didnt try?

just to be clear the idea that shooting is easy to improve on is ridiculous.

oh dont worry abt ______ skill - he can just get way better at that in the nba!

no, other guys just couldn't, maybe rose will be one of them. are you really this dense?

lol im dense? did u know that maybe he can improve his jumpshot and dont worry abt it it easy arent really the same thing?

examples from my bulls: deng, nocioni, both pretty pisspoor shooters when they entereed the league. noc is now a legitimate 3pt threat and luol has rep as one of the best mid range shooters in the game. tyrus, even worse of a shooter, now after 2 years in the league can hit a 15 footer regularly.
hinrich, decent shooter in college, works hard on it ever since, has not improved much if any.

lol those two things are barely lol coherent statements, which makes lol it hard to determine if they're the same lol

um everyone seems to be arguing jhosh's point

you seriously don't think that shooting is easier to improve than, say, work habit or willingness to defend? or dribbling? passing?

never said it was impossible to improve yr shot i was just loling at yr oh i wouldnt worry to much abt that its easy to get better pronouncement

my shooting kinda gets worse with practice ;_;

im saying that i think on the whole trying to read people's minds is generally a bad idea!

well obv is a guy has no other skills, you'd worry about it. with a pg who can do lots of other things, it shouldn't be a huge concern. of course, there's really only one way to view things, which is the jhosea way, so i apologize.

u can do lotsa stuff kid yr a #1 one pick go out there and knock em dead

hey did you know beasley isn't too good off the pick and roll? no way he should be #1.

yah pick and roll and shooting pretty much of equal importance as far as basketball goes - well played!

relative to rose and beasley's positions, they kinda are. you'd be the guy in jack ramsay's ear telling him "dude look at bowie's numbers! that jordan kid can't hit from 18. lol how can you have a shooting guard who can't shoot?!'

is invoking bowie over jordan the basketball equivalent to godwins law - can i get a ruling?

but either way im sure passing on someone cause they cant shoot always leads to disaster

relative to rose and beasley's positions, they kinda are.

-- Granny Dainger, Thursday, June 26, 2008 5:03 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

i have no idea why i even engage u O_o

so, the engagement's off?

u can do lotsa stuff kid yr a #1 one pick go out there and knock em dead

http://www.movieactors.com/freezeframes510/Rocky81.Jpeg

dude i know, you've got it all figured out, you know everything about basketball, i'm just trying to bask in your glory here and glean a few of your discarded morsels. so a pg guard needs to shoot more than a forward needs to know how to pick and roll, got it, tex!

man i remember all those times when that sharp shooting point guard led his team to the title. thanks for the memories, chauncey.

u do realize its that tone combined w/the know nothing arguments thats so annoying

man i remember all those times when that non-shooting point guard led his team to the title. thanks for the memories, _______.

and here i didn't realize you were capable enough self-awareness to realize your tone was annoying as fuck!

did you know beasley isn't too good off the pick and roll? no way he should be #1.

-- Granny Dainger

gd you were being sarcastic here right? i mean poll it up, basketball skills: shooting vs standing w yr hands over yr nuts then spinning around which do you value more

and here i didn't realize you were capable enough self-awareness to realize your tone was annoying as fuck!

-- Granny Dainger, Thursday, June 26, 2008 5:23 PM (33 seconds ago) Bookmark Link

oh snap good one!

magic johnson, is who i think you meant there.

standing w yr hands over yr nuts then spinning around which do you value more

do you really think that is all there is to it? anyway, it was a joke. replace with dribbling if it fits better, i don't care.

granny dainger: applying the lessons of 1988 to 2008 for fun and profit

Re: Knicks trading down for the 13th and 27th picks and a player, possibly Steve Blake or Jarrett Jack.

I wouldn't wish this on either of them.

Hard to say who to ship off. Blake is solid, a totally known quantity who is at the peak of his game and that peak is just fair-to-ok. He doesn't make a lot of mistakes, but he also doesn't venture very far off the beaten track.

Jack is young, gifted, erratic and sometimes seems emotionally fragile. In his first two seasons he couldn't seem to get his head together for more than a few games in a row. If Jack can knit himself into a tighter package, he has more upside than Blake. But can he? Beats me.

standing w yr hands over yr nuts then spinning around which do you value more

do you really think that is all there is to it? anyway, it was a joke. replace with dribbling if it fits better, i don't care.

-- Granny Dainger, Thursday, June 26, 2008 5:26 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

lol still not getting the importance of shooting

BTW, this trade would almost certainly mean the blazers are angling for DJ Augustin or Westbrook as their pg for the future.

Which prob would mean Jarrett Jack is one goner.

bulls already have a point guard (2 of them, actually) who can't sure AND ALSO offer little else positive. Concerns about Rose's shooting are way down on the list.

xpost yes please tell me how important shooting is in the game of basketball you condescending ass

i dont laike the augustin/roy back court - too small

westbrook i just dont really like altogether - his rise is another sign of the great 2008 point guard hysteria

TWEEEET STOP THE HATE

this is like that ringtone pseudobeef thread

i would tell u abt shooting but i have to go try and get my cell phone out of the trunk - it was stuck in there all weekend!

TECHNICAL FOUL TECHNICAL FOUL

What can I say. Fish gotta swim. Birds gotta fly. NBA teams gotta have a point guard.

At this moment it is one the blazers weaker points, so looking for a fix comes naturally. If Augustin or Westbrook don't prove out, next year the blazers have lots of cap room for the free agent market.

TECHNICAL FOUL TECHNICAL FOUL

-- deeznuts, Thursday, June 26, 2008 5:38 PM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

ok sorry that was a total dick move - but but he was calling me names ;_;

As for the Augustin/Roy backcourt being too small, I understand that idea, but Roy plays as big as he needs to - by which I mean he hasn't shown any significant weakness when confronted by taller guards on either end of the court - so Augustin's size issue would all come down to Augustin's defensive ability against bigger NBA players.

After years of watching Damon Stoudemire get taken, this becomes a real question about Augustin.

maan if beaz gets picked first there is no possible way i am ever gonna stfu on this board i am warning you all now

also if he doesnt same deal

:D soz

(everyone runs for the door, jamming it so badly that no one can escape)

AAIEEE!

luol deng was not a "pisspoor" shooter coming outta college-- i agree/ w jho that granny d is being a little flippant wrt to rose's shot. the point is surrounding him with the right players-- a la rondo-- so it doesnt matter if he can't shoot 43% by his second year. if he can drive and dish to gordon, deng etc. he'll be aight.

chris paul didn't really become a deadly outside shooter until this year i think

hey aimless i will engage with you in blazer talk.

rumors right now are that mcmillan is pretty much committed to roy playing the pg for the foreseeable future, and i'm not sold on augustin really making it. 5'11ish guys just don't last in the nba by rule unless they're allen iverson.

the point is surrounding him with the right players-- a la rondo-- so it doesnt matter if he can't shoot 43% by his second year. if he can drive and dish to gordon, deng etc. he'll be aight.

-- J0rdan S., Thursday, June 26, 2008 6:52 PM (38 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

btw i think rose will be a good nba player - the question is do you take him over beasley - but i do have to lol at the idea the you just dish to the bulls - the worst fg% team in the nba!

but i dont think you worry abt fit if yr as shitty as the bulls - just take whos best and try to shape the team through trades and free agency

but i do have to lol at the idea the you just dish to the bulls - the worst fg% team in the nba!

i didnt know this until they said the stat during the draft! total d'oh moment ;_;

btw lol @ stu scott throwing the "how does the first year coach deal with this new pick?" question to marc jackson

j bilas dishing out the know nothing arguments!

trade

omg beasley <3! "just a fun loving guy off the court"!!

just turned it on rose > beasley > mayo - has there been any trades?

nah-- the sonics/clips one fell through apparently

riles is really intent on keeping beasley or he is a huge huge bullshitter

MAYO MAYO MAYO!!!!!

im having a had time figuring if riley was gaming the situation to get beasley all along - he was kinda smirking

westbrook - eh not feeling it

ya i like him actually but the fact that no one thought shit about him until like 4 months ago is o_O

"he didn't even start for his high school team until senior year!!" = UH

yah we could be entering bust territory here - i dont really like this draft too much

Kevin Love 6-10 hehe

"Must Improve: Explosion Ability"

stu scott forgot to read the beach boys wiki

great outlet passer = damning w/faint praise

LOOOOOOOOOOOOL <3 NY

DON'T CRY FOR ME MACEIJ LAMPE

kevin love is excellent w/the draft lingo - basketball i.q. lol

kevin love here is footage of kevin mchale a white guy who cant jump named kevin he is yr god

seriously if i ever hear mike fratello pull the "this IS the tough international player!!" routine one more time im going to kill him

YOU SAID THE SAME SHIT ABOUT BARGNIANI LAST YEAR YOU TARD

lol @ fratello altering the nickname from "The Big Cock" to "The Big Rooster"

LOL NYC YAYA

i always try to get my friends to go to the draft and they look at me funny

t/s: playing v winning hard

UM

t/s: playing hard v winning

Jeez everyone is 19 this draft aren't they? THANKS DAVID STERN!

euro video clips always look like theyre in slow mo

ha alex. this is the first year of my life where i've been consistently older than all the draft picks. big step for me.

estimated number of "rooster" branded shoes on nyc courts this year: 0

euro video clips always look like theyre in slow mo

-- jhøshea, Thursday, June 26, 2008 7:12 PM (43 seconds ago) Bookmark Link

this is what i think about when i watch webcam porn

white jacket with white shirt collar

http://i28.tinypic.com/w89e1e.jpg

danger eric gordon profile - hes small cant dribble play D or pass turns the ball over a lot but he can shoot!

euro video clips always look like theyre in slow mo

-- jhøshea, Thursday, June 26, 2008 7:12 PM (43 seconds ago) Bookmark Link

this is what i think about when i watch webcam porn

-- J0rdan S., Thursday, June 26, 2008 8:13 PM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

abt euro basketball clips?

ok joe alexander heres a pick im into

this has quickly become the dullest draft in years. c'mon someone pull the trigger on baron davis for drew gooden and three future second rounders or some shit.

xp

that both webcam porn and euro videos are in slow mo

guyz what happened to the trades here? this unpredictable draft has turned...[sunglasses off]...PREDICTABLE

maybe this is just espn's virtualized mock draft

Except the Bucks just got Richard Jefferson. Why do that if you are going to pick Alexander?

i like augustine a lot

wow, i think augustine is the first even semi-unpredicted pick

i think augustine will be alright

little out of control lot short

"people weren't talking about him 4-5 months ago!"= a common theme

xp
kinda seems like he should be a better-shooting/scoring version of ray felton

doris burke looks like the blonde chick from that 70s show

this fucker's voice

stephen a really has no questions to ask any of these guys other than "Tell me what it took to get here" and "What is your new team getting out of [insert player's name]"

lopez will be kinda pretty good imo

aw lopez brother gettin all emotional

bayless seems like a monta ellis type

lopez will be kinda pretty good imo

-- jhøshea, Thursday, June 26, 2008 7:35 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Link

ya the nets lucked out here-- they fell into the one pick in this draft that basically everyone agrees will be very solid and that's it. my comment from earlier otm.

hey if any of you guys have a "mean streak" be sure to make yourself a candidate for the 2009 draft.

Sacto with the first reach.

whoa

Ford had him at #29.

jason thompson

who?

The guy from Rider, a school I have never heard of.

lol the sacramento kings

this is a perfect match imo: a player i know nothing and care less about going to a team i know nothing and care less about

kareem rush is in the nba still?

Brandon Rush to Portland? Maybe he can be their sixth man.

we have like four of those already.

Nick(VA): Ayo, O.J, should I draft you for my basketball fantasy?

O.J. Mayo: Yeah.

Gotta be Koufos next...

The Blazers have made a trade with Charlotte to acquire the rights to Texas point guard DJ Augustin, The Oregonian has learned.

i do not believe in the rush brothers at all

Portland needs to swing some kind of trade to come out of this looking good.

hah! xp

randlolph

Anthony Randolph
Similarities: Brandan Wright

Oh good, now they have two of them.

omg vitale no plz no no no no no

stu scott has committed to exclusively inane commentary tonite

DICK VITALE IN LOVING WHITE AMERICAN PLAYER AND BEING SUSPICIOUS ABOUT "HARD-NOSED" INTERNATIONAL FORWARD SHOCKER

xp it's like he's reading trivial pursuit cards or something. "brandon rush has a brother whoo" zzzz

ha yah this kid hit a hole in one!

Hey Kerr, wrong Lopez brother.

omg vital xenophobic rant !

wait, first reports were wrong on the blazers front:

The Blazers have made a trade with Indiana to acquire the rights to point guard Jerryd Bayless, The Oregonian has learned.

this dude sounds like an italian restaurant!

OMG plz .jpg of robin lopez with a hat on

lol vital not even knowing abt the auto rookie contract

watching on internet like 3 minutes behind

looooooooooool jho that was a classic o_O but he's an old guy so lol whatever! rant

Will there not be even one eastern euro in the top 20 this year?

i was half-expecting him to veer into pro-mccain territory

WE GOTTA CLOSE OUR BORDERS, BAY-BE!

robin lopez is gonna suck

lol clay otm

speights seems like a worse al thornton to me

http://i25.tinypic.com/e6cfu9.gif

lool roy hibbert is a funny motherfucker to watch

oooommmmggggg :D :D

yesss

unintentional homoerotic imagery?

omg jhoshea wait for the "nugget" from scott re the wizards' pick

OMG FASCINATING FACTOID!

oh trade! portland wins!

thankin you protland

stu scott busted like 3 nuts when he realized that rush got traded to the same team as his brother!

is it cuz he's gonna get to host the reality show?

where is the 3rd rush brother?

"WOW! THEY'VE GONE BIG AND LONG"

http://www.tomscan.com/yeshomo.jpg

Randolph is the guard who had a growth spurt so now he's a forward, right?

Rush played at UCLA along with current NBA star Baron Davis and former NBA player Jerome Moiso. He declared for the NBA draft in 2000 after his sophomore year, but was not selected. However, he was signed by the Seattle SuperSonics in that preseason, but due to drinking problems was eventually cut from the roster during training camp.

Rush later played briefly for the Kansas City Knights of the ABA. He is currently an assistant coach at Penn Valley Community College in Kansas City, Missouri.

o jeez other rush way to blow it

man ppl here haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate brandon rush

hate hate hate hate hate

teams are really rolling with these iffy big man picks

van arsdale twins >> rush brothers

when kareem showed up to a mizzou/ku game @ ku wearing a kansas hat is was the biggest news

haha, what's those peoples' deal with b. rush?

srsly tho, how in the fuck are teams stil picking motherfuckers like alexis ajinca?? dude averaged 3 points a game in the fucking french league. how delusional do you have to be to think the dude is going to "put on weight" and in two years put up a double-double.

it's cuz i think lots of people thought it was a given that he was going to come here since kareem did, so when he buffed them for kansas it was like DISOWN THE RUSH FAMILY

while conveniently not realizing that maybe rush didn't want to come to a school who had a cokehead coke who fucked his players' gfs

cokehead coach**

ah, yeah i guess it makes sense that mizzou fans would hate him

lol, what ever happened to quinn?

he coaches in the d-league

serge ibaka pick very much in character

i love it when the blazers buy picks

it's like the nba draft is costco for them or something

yah i like how the blazers are building their team (aside from all the injury prone players)

it's too bad we have 500 guys under contract for '08-'09 right now.

ATTN BLAZERS MY 2009 1ST ROUND PICK IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR CASH CONSIDERATIONS PLZ CALL

LOL JR GIDDENS

CELTICS BRAINTRUST HARD AT WORK

"we need a 23 y.o. guard with 'character issues' who can't shoot."

lol vital has an excellent plan to kill college basketball

i was so happy to be on the phone when he was on

i looked up and he was violently jabbing at the screen

what was he saying

we need to let high school kids back into the draft because kids coming in for just one year is unfair to the "true student athletes"

after he finished that thought he downed a few gulps of moonshine.

i love the blazers

"Must Improve: Concentration"

j0rdan you want me to send you some blazers schwag

jr giddens

"Must Improve: Professionalism"

yes also i want a oden-aldridge-pryzbilla-dorsey reality show

oh sorry dude

The Blazers have traded Darrell Arthur, whom they took with the 27th pick, and traded him to Houston for the rights to Nicolas Batum, who was taken with the 25th pick.

The Blazers also gave the Rockets a second round pick, which is believed to be the 33rd pick, which was Joey Dorsey.

wait what the fuck a PRINCE???? the bucks just drafted ROYALTY?

DAMN :(

"he's thin but he's got very good length"

"we need a 23 y.o. guard with 'character issues' who can't shoot."

-- circles, Friday, 27 June 2008 02:37 (46 minutes ago) Link

didn't the guy shoot over 51% from the field last year?

watching future hangers-on of the first pick celebrate on the local news is kind of disheartening.

HENDRIX WITH AN X!

celtics got bill walker in some 2nd round trade action awesome!

chi kev, he shot well from the field, but he's a guard who shot below 60% on fts the last two years. even when he was a freshman at ku and his 3s were falling, he always had a weird-looking shot. mostly i'm just amazed that the celtics would take him when bill walker and cdr were still available.

guyz i really love the move by the t'wolves. jefferson + love makes lots of sense to me, esp. if they can ever manage to milk something out of mccants/brewe/telfair et al. mayo and gay on the other hand..........

http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/multimedia/photo_gallery/0806/nbadraft.fashion/images/rlopez.jpg

y/n should ILH commission a special edition of ilxors on parade featuring the pics of players w/ stern

there should not be an "n" option on the above question.

LOL JR GIDDENS

CELTICS BRAINTRUST HARD AT WORK

-- circles, Friday, 27 June 2008 02:35 (11 hours ago) Link

this actually does make sense:

But what stuck out most to Rivers was the way Giddens shut down opponents.

"He has a chance to fight for minutes right away because of his defense," Rivers said.

but then again you never like to see this as a deficiency for a guard:

There are some deficiencies in his game, including free throw shooting and ballhandling...

celtics strategy seemed to be to take a chance talented dudes w/a strike or two against them - giddens: character issues - walker: injuries (leon powe II?) - some turkish guy: some turkish guy

really not loving the jefferson/love front court - small and unathletic! (skilled tho) - both those guys beg to be paired w/a big defensive dude. ah kevin mchale!

draft movie http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/1810009665/video

i don't know about this love thing..

if hubie comes on today i'd love to hear about miller, cuz on the radio this AM fred hoiberg was really pitching that miller could be a major impact.

millers good but hes not a long term solution for a rebuilding team - could def get something for him in a trade tho

Well, I'm awake, coffeed up, and have perused the Sports section. Blazers came into the draft with five picks and traded every player they drafted. That was fun.

"Except the Bucks just got Richard Jefferson. Why do that if you are going to pick Alexander?"

I still don't understand this.

bucks got a good deal for jefferson and they mustve thought alexander was the best guy left by some significant margin - its not like theyre close to competing for a title - theyve got time to sort things out make trades etc

same thing w/the small minny frontcourt really

also <3 blazers trade happy ways - especially impressive since they always seem to come out on top

why DeAndre Jordan, Mario Chalmers, Bill Walker drop so far for.

Reasons of state, Mr. Two, distributed on a need-to-know basis only.

chris douglas-roberts is the shocking one for me. wtf!

im not sure why he was this years i think this guys gonna be better than the experts think poster child. every time i watched him i was all lol u think that shits gonna fly in the pros. seems to have a one dimensional game predicated on weirdo off balance shots.

he's gotta

http://www.graffiti.org/index/WildStyle2004.jpg

(also wasn't he the leading scorer in the NCAA tournament...i mean...that's gotta count for something)

TIMBERWOLVES DON'T TRY TO GET FUCKING CUTE AND DO ONE OF YOUR CLASSIC STUPID DRAFT DAY TRADE BULLSHIT.

ROSE. BEASLEY. MAYO. = THREE PLAYERS, THREE PICKS.

TAKE WHATEVER FUCKING DUDE FALLS TO YOU AND DON'T TRY YOU USE YOUR FUCKING BRAIN MCHALE.

REAL TALK.

-- M@tt He1ges0n, Thursday, 26 June 2008 17:00 (4 days ago) Link

HAHAHA

I've been too submerged in the draft the past few days to follow the react here. Wolves are my secondary team and I really like Kevin Love -- though I think he and jefferson together is a problem defensively and I still think the Wolves could use a real point guard.

I almost broke the Love-Mayo trade -- spent 10 minutes on the phone with two sources, posted it, and then found out ESPN had reported it five minutes earlier.

Anyone wants to read 3,500 words on the Grizzlies draft, you can find that here.

yeah i'm not as mad about love the more i read up on him.

you can't blame t-wolves fans for getting angry when mchale is in love with a big white boy though...it's like being a child of an alcoholic you never trust them to change their ways.

how is this miller guy we got? some of the KFAN dudes are pretty excited about him...

Miller is a really nice role player -- great shooter (really, one of the best pure shooters on the planet as long as it isn't the playoffs), can handle and pass, rebounds well, good size.

Can't defend and can be turnover prone, but certainly a high-quality player. He totally wilts under the pressure, but he's not gonna have to worry about the post-season in Minny anytime soon.

Was very well liked in Memphis. One of the few guys you'd see hanging out around town, even in the off-season. Also just gave $200,000 to St. Jude's Children's Hospital a few months ago.

Get ready for a stream of post-game quotes all preceded by, "The bottom line is..." -- that's his go-to cliche.

And isn't Miller from S. Dakota too? Minneapolis is as close to home as he's going to get.

yeah miller is from sodak...he's actually super excited about being a t-wolf (haha! that's rare)...said he grew up on the team and actually always wanted to be on the team