This is your rolling New York Knicks trainwreck thread

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Prompted by the signing of the newest Knick, Qyntel Woods.

The Knicks' expectations for Woods are low.

"I think he's a player that we'll just have to see where he goes," the team president, Isiah Thomas, said. "He's a talent, but it's kind of 50-50."

The Knicks waived small forward Matt Barnes, a solid citizen and solid player, over the weekend. In Woods, the Knicks see a player with greater upside, as well as greater risk.

"No one has questioned his basketball playing ability," Thomas said. "His character has been questioned."

For Woods, just getting the chance to play again is enough. If he can change public perceptions along the way, all the better.

"I'm a different person now," he said. "I made some mistakes, but I've still got to prove to everybody that I'm not a bad guy. So I'm still working on that now."

Shockingly, I don't think this is going to end well.

d4niel coh3n (dayan), Wednesday, 7 December 2005 18:44 (nineteen years ago)

"Even by the Knicks' standards, it was a tumultuous day. Stability has eluded them since the day training camp opened in early October, mostly because of injuries throughout the roster.

Brown, who used his 11th different lineup Tuesday, has created some of the instability himself, by deciding to start players in their hometowns."

d4niel coh3n (dayan), Wednesday, 7 December 2005 19:16 (nineteen years ago)

Ah, the joys of a five-year contract. "Fuck you, pay me."

Erick Dampier is better than Shaq (miloaukerman), Wednesday, 7 December 2005 21:05 (nineteen years ago)

two years pass...

http://www.nypost.com/seven/02292008/sports/knicks/keep_out__marbury__99750.htm

carne asada, Friday, 29 February 2008 18:51 (seventeen years ago)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=7lvYf08X6tc

polyphonic, Friday, 29 February 2008 19:55 (seventeen years ago)

aiiiiiiiiiiirbaaaaaallllol

am0n, Friday, 29 February 2008 21:04 (seventeen years ago)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=qPwAAn7FiGY

am0n, Friday, 29 February 2008 21:06 (seventeen years ago)

three weeks pass...

James Dolan is the fucking worst!!
i wish they could get rid of him as well.

carne asada, Wednesday, 26 March 2008 14:30 (seventeen years ago)

By the looks of things, he could be done in by a Monte Cristo or a super-sized value meal. Just send him some mayo.

David R., Wednesday, 26 March 2008 14:36 (seventeen years ago)

i'm not even a knicks fan at all. it would just be cool if they were at least competitive. i can't even talk shit to knicks fans because i just feel bad for them.

carne asada, Wednesday, 26 March 2008 14:46 (seventeen years ago)

If Walsh keeps Thomas, that will be hilarious.

polyphonic, Wednesday, 26 March 2008 19:35 (seventeen years ago)

WTF? they are considering this,right?
Thomas must have pictures of dolan going down on him in the locker room

carne asada, Wednesday, 26 March 2008 19:45 (seventeen years ago)

carne that's exactly what i think, seriously -- or something of that nature

Tracer Hand, Thursday, 27 March 2008 17:56 (seventeen years ago)

This article is gggrrrrreat!

http://nymag.com/news/sports/45787/

polyphonic, Wednesday, 9 April 2008 18:49 (seventeen years ago)

is david lee the only salvageable player on this rosteR??
i guess maybe that dude with dreads...

hytop, Wednesday, 9 April 2008 19:56 (seventeen years ago)

Ronaldo? Oh hell no -- he looks like a game-free Joakim Noah. Maybe N8, as a mini-mini Microwave sort.

David R., Wednesday, 9 April 2008 20:13 (seventeen years ago)

i guess all i've seen balkman do is run around on some najera type shit. maybe 11th or 12th man material? and that's one of zeke's draft 'gems'

whatever nate gives you scoring is taken back ten fold by his mini-hulk attitude.

didn't he fight someone in the postgame showers? yall see eastern promises? i imagine it was like that.

hytop, Thursday, 10 April 2008 00:34 (seventeen years ago)

That article is pretty good. Spike Lee saying "hornswoggled" alone makes it worthwhile. The intervention when trying to get an interview with Malik Rose was especially o_O

circles, Thursday, 10 April 2008 03:44 (seventeen years ago)

yeah i read this shit yesterday when i was supposed to be doing something else and would totally click again A++

J0rdan S., Thursday, 10 April 2008 03:45 (seventeen years ago)

i havent watched the knicks live in like a year and a half and im pretty sure my life is better for it

J0rdan S., Thursday, 10 April 2008 03:46 (seventeen years ago)

Actually, watching the Knicks flail about and screw their pooch is pretty entertaining (cf. YouTube of Zach Randolph: Male Point Guard). It's like the reverse of watching the Celts or Phoenix or Lakers click on all cylinders.

Best thing about this year: Jamal Crawford's mondo-sized shoulder bandage.

David R., Thursday, 10 April 2008 13:36 (seventeen years ago)

Also YES re: that fantastic NY article!

David R., Thursday, 10 April 2008 13:44 (seventeen years ago)

So Mark Jackson's a possible coaching candidate, & announced during last night's game that he's leaving the YES broadcast booth?

David R., Thursday, 17 April 2008 18:37 (seventeen years ago)

Does Mark Jackson have any management experience?

Alex in SF, Thursday, 17 April 2008 18:49 (seventeen years ago)

Dunno. Didn't stop Steve Kerr from getting the Phoenix GM job, tho. Hell, didn't keep Isiah Thomas from doing what he did, either!

David R., Thursday, 17 April 2008 18:53 (seventeen years ago)

i was kind of warming to the jackson/van gundy tandem. seems like jackson is stepping in shit but he'll get points just for coaching at all after this nonsense

tremendoid, Friday, 18 April 2008 03:35 (seventeen years ago)

My one fear: lots of "you're better than that" references.

David R., Friday, 18 April 2008 12:31 (seventeen years ago)

"Dunno. Didn't stop Steve Kerr from getting the Phoenix GM job, tho. Hell, didn't keep Isiah Thomas from doing what he did, either!"

Yeah and those were great moves!

Alex in SF, Friday, 18 April 2008 16:19 (seventeen years ago)

By-siah!

Alex in SF, Friday, 18 April 2008 22:51 (seventeen years ago)

I wonder if he gets another job anywhere now?

Alex in SF, Friday, 18 April 2008 22:51 (seventeen years ago)

Oh wait it looks like he still going to be doing "something" for the Knicks.

Alex in SF, Friday, 18 April 2008 23:00 (seventeen years ago)

wau, are we sure that donnie walsh is of sound mind and body?

circles, Saturday, 19 April 2008 00:33 (seventeen years ago)

"And Thomas will be a part of that. Without getting specific, Walsh said there were assignments he’d feel completely comfortable giving to Thomas.

"Like washing my car, walking my dog, making sure my kids get to Little League. I will be in touch with Isiah a lot,” Walsh said.""

Alex in SF, Saturday, 19 April 2008 02:01 (seventeen years ago)

The fact that Donnie Walsh is considering Billy King for GM does not bode well for the post-Thomas era.

polyphonic, Saturday, 19 April 2008 07:39 (seventeen years ago)

Clippers East.

Aimless, Saturday, 19 April 2008 17:39 (seventeen years ago)

In his own words:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/richard_deitsch/04/18/isiah.quotes/index.html

polyphonic, Saturday, 19 April 2008 17:52 (seventeen years ago)

six months pass...

The Knicks sure are playing well with all of those dudes Isiah assembled. Maybe what they needed was a good coach?

polyphonic, Thursday, 13 November 2008 22:52 (sixteen years ago)

FREE STARBURY

carne asada, Thursday, 13 November 2008 23:05 (sixteen years ago)

ha, as long as d'antoni can avoid playing starbury and fat eddy

circles, Thursday, 13 November 2008 23:41 (sixteen years ago)

two months pass...

KARATE

eman, Sunday, 1 February 2009 21:05 (sixteen years ago)

It could be worse - you could be a Chicago Bulls fan - trust me - it's painful ...

BlackIronPrison, Sunday, 1 February 2009 21:31 (sixteen years ago)

one month passes...

¸„ø¤º°¨º¤ø „¸¨°º¤ø„¸¸„ø ¸„ø¤º°¨¸„ø¤º „¸¨°º¤ (eman), Tuesday, 31 March 2009 21:55 (sixteen years ago)

seven months pass...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/peter-robert-casey/how-to-lose-lebron-in-10_b_350291.html

carne asada, Wednesday, 11 November 2009 22:28 (fifteen years ago)

man, i really want the knicks to be good

carne asada, Wednesday, 11 November 2009 22:29 (fifteen years ago)

these fucking guys!!

eddy fucking curry!! are you kidding me? franchise player??

GREENBURGH, N.Y. - Eleven minutes of Eddy Curry helped doom the possibility of 71 games of Allen Iverson.

That was one of the nuggets of information revealed by Knicks president Donnie Walsh this afternoon as he explained New York's decision to pass on the opportunity to sign unrestricted free agent Allen Iverson.

Curry played 11 minutes Wednesday night in the Knicks' victory in Indiana, and Walsh said the continued rehabilitation and re-integration of Curry -- along with the fear that Iverson would take minutes away from the young players the Knicks are trying to develop -- impacted the decision.

"That's part of it, because Eddy is now on the team and we've got to develop a lot of attention to Eddy from a franchise standpoint, because he went out there in 11 minutes and I thought actually changed the game in a lot of ways. Their big guys were having their way with us, which big men do because David (Lee) is not a natural center, and when Eddy went in -- just the fact that he could take the ball and go at them -- I could see they went back on their heels and they weren't the same after that no matter who was playing. I thought he helped us win the game right there. He's got a lot of talent, he's got great size, you can see he's worked on his body tremendously, so yeah, Eddy is a guy we're very high on, and we wanted to work with him."

carne asada, Friday, 20 November 2009 19:48 (fifteen years ago)

which dudes are they developing? most these guys won’t even be there next year,right? i would have paid real money to go see Iverson at the garden this season.

carne asada, Friday, 20 November 2009 19:52 (fifteen years ago)

ahaha thats ridic

luol deng (am0n), Friday, 20 November 2009 21:27 (fifteen years ago)

they've been terrible since 2000

fifteen minutes of iguana time famous (forksclovetofu), Friday, 20 November 2009 21:58 (fifteen years ago)

It's almost as if, on top of putting a bad team together, they also want to avoid selling tickets.

Maybe they are trying to move the team a la Major League.

windy = white, carl = black (polyphonic), Friday, 20 November 2009 23:42 (fifteen years ago)

washed-up team that doesn't realize it, washed-up superstar who doesn't realize it...the knicks and iverson really deserve each other

circles, Friday, 20 November 2009 23:51 (fifteen years ago)

eddy fucking curry!! are you kidding me? franchise player??

looooooooooooool

luol deng (am0n), Saturday, 21 November 2009 01:07 (fifteen years ago)

waouldve loved to see daintoni + iverson a lot tbh

ice cr?m, Saturday, 21 November 2009 05:55 (fifteen years ago)

:,(

ice cr?m, Saturday, 21 November 2009 05:55 (fifteen years ago)

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j50/razzyorg/Movies/majorleagueloubrownnakedowner.jpg

Leee, Saturday, 21 November 2009 22:27 (fifteen years ago)

at least they are finally better than nj

johnny crunch, Saturday, 21 November 2009 22:30 (fifteen years ago)

when will nets win a game maybe never

ice cr?m, Saturday, 21 November 2009 22:36 (fifteen years ago)

joekz

bitter about emo (Hunt3r), Sunday, 22 November 2009 00:01 (fifteen years ago)

didn't they just pass on a slightly healthier over the hill scorer? one that they could have gotten for nothing.

http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/2009/11/knicks-after-t-mac/

carne asada, Monday, 23 November 2009 21:37 (fifteen years ago)

lol this guy thinking the same thing

tavoris Posted: Nov.23 at 10:14 am
hmmmmm, while this makes sense from a basketball standpoint, it doesn’t considering they just passed on another scorer (who’s healthier) that would get about 22 mil less this season.

carne asada, Monday, 23 November 2009 21:41 (fifteen years ago)

i mean it makes sense only if they are clearing out contracts that are on the books past this season if they are still under the delusion theyre gonna sign two big stars. but who do they even have left?

e honda v. (m bison), Monday, 23 November 2009 22:01 (fifteen years ago)

franchise player Eddy Curry

carne asada, Monday, 23 November 2009 22:05 (fifteen years ago)

I really like the idea of Lebron and Bosh (or whoever) playing on a team with 13 d-league guys.

windy = white, carl = black (polyphonic), Monday, 23 November 2009 22:40 (fifteen years ago)

I dunno sounds to me like Walsh is unloading the hot potato onto Eddy Curry, who's a sitting duck

囧 (dyao), Tuesday, 24 November 2009 02:21 (fifteen years ago)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zl4kmvNN7NU

rondo must have cut in front of curry at the buffet line

囧 (dyao), Tuesday, 24 November 2009 02:22 (fifteen years ago)

lol lots of rondo h8ers in the youtube comments

luol deng (am0n), Tuesday, 24 November 2009 02:26 (fifteen years ago)

maybe someone from the bulls paid curry to do a hit

囧 (dyao), Tuesday, 24 November 2009 04:37 (fifteen years ago)

brad miller?

luol deng (am0n), Tuesday, 24 November 2009 04:41 (fifteen years ago)

eight months pass...

http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nba/news/story?id=5442858

ajsadk;vmcskmwdkofawf

am0n, Friday, 6 August 2010 20:14 (fifteen years ago)

what i don't understand about this is how this is an official position... like donnie walsh calls him to talk about personnel decisions, and that's a paid job that requires an announcement? very weird

righteous lecoq (J0rdan S.), Friday, 6 August 2010 20:17 (fifteen years ago)

like, i know that teams have positions like this for ex players/coaches/front office types who were with a franchise for a long time and want to leave a demanding position for one that is less intensive while still having their fingerprints on the team in some fashion, but isiah is like, the biggest sports pariah in new york in recent memory

righteous lecoq (J0rdan S.), Friday, 6 August 2010 20:18 (fifteen years ago)

FIU more like FU

Aerosol, Friday, 6 August 2010 20:19 (fifteen years ago)

7-25 record LOL

Aerosol, Friday, 6 August 2010 20:20 (fifteen years ago)

hate this guy

Aerosol, Friday, 6 August 2010 20:20 (fifteen years ago)

Isiah Thomas rejoins Knicks; still at FUIUD

am0n, Friday, 6 August 2010 20:22 (fifteen years ago)

LeBron maybe should have gone to Chicago or stayed with Cleveland, but not jumping on to this trainwreck was pretty smart.

no gut busting joke can change history (polyphonic), Friday, 6 August 2010 20:47 (fifteen years ago)

ban isiah from the nba afaic

for those about to s1ock, we slutsk you (m bison), Saturday, 7 August 2010 21:49 (fifteen years ago)

two months pass...

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-knicksdraft102610

macaroni rascal (polyphonic), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 17:56 (fifteen years ago)

http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nba/news/story?id=5766651

macaroni rascal (polyphonic), Friday, 5 November 2010 07:22 (fourteen years ago)

i should've used this thread :-(

ain't no half-trollin (J0rdan S.), Friday, 5 November 2010 07:25 (fourteen years ago)

Who is Landry Fields and how is he suddenly a starter? This team is weird.

Gravel Puzzleworth, Saturday, 6 November 2010 00:32 (fourteen years ago)

he scored lots of points for a weak stanford team last year. and maybe d'antoni thinks he fills the 2 spot better than wilson chandler and toney douglas? idk, it is pretty odd.

circles, Saturday, 6 November 2010 00:51 (fourteen years ago)

trainwreck my ass

the knicks ain't that bad, Saturday, 6 November 2010 04:07 (fourteen years ago)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QV62RY5yuE&fmt=18

bounding (tremendoid), Sunday, 7 November 2010 08:37 (fourteen years ago)

― the knicks ain't that bad, Friday, November 5, 2010 11:07 PM (1 week ago)

u jinxed it dude, 4 game losing streak

pusha t. washington (m bison), Saturday, 13 November 2010 18:00 (fourteen years ago)

ALL ABOARD

http://redstick.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/trainwreck2.jpg

am0n, Saturday, 13 November 2010 18:15 (fourteen years ago)

two weeks pass...

this train is above .500 yall

mizzell, Wednesday, 1 December 2010 16:44 (fourteen years ago)

surprises abound for our New York Knicks....
-the play of rookie guard Landry Fields (leads all guards in shooting %, #10 shooting percentage in the league, #1 rebounding guard in the league)
-blocking powerhouse (chandler and stats and turiaf each averaging like 2 per game)
-road warrior wins (most road wins of any team?)

we are looking much tougher this year... a lot of hard nails kats... (Felton, S.T.A.T., Turiaf, Fields)

even Galinari is starting to shoot less and draw a ton of fouls (2nd best FT shooter in the league?)

things are looking up.

I predict 7th seed come May.

oh yeah, another cool stat... Timofey Mozgov averaging about 6 PFpg and 15 mpg

the knicks ain't that bad, Wednesday, 1 December 2010 16:59 (fourteen years ago)

two months pass...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYeOCWFUDF0

am0n, Wednesday, 16 February 2011 14:34 (fourteen years ago)

for the love of god i hope all of this is true http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Ak1oqh5ILJdgL7gm2B2O9ju8vLYF?slug=aw-thomasknicks022011

teenage cream (J0rdan S.), Sunday, 20 February 2011 18:03 (fourteen years ago)

if thats true, smh clean off

ice cr?m, Sunday, 20 February 2011 18:55 (fourteen years ago)

i mean WHO WHO in their right minds would ever be associated w/this insane organization

ice cr?m, Sunday, 20 February 2011 18:56 (fourteen years ago)

i find it more bizzare that isiah thomas found himself coaching at fiu.

and he gave up his first year's salary to be there! makes it seem like his choices were narrowed to the fiu and sable palm elementary school head-coaching positions.

Daniel, Esq., Sunday, 20 February 2011 18:58 (fourteen years ago)

james dolan & isiah thomas have got to be the worst front office tandem in the history of sports

teenage cream (J0rdan S.), Sunday, 20 February 2011 18:58 (fourteen years ago)

maybe dan snyder & vinny cerrato are close

teenage cream (J0rdan S.), Sunday, 20 February 2011 18:59 (fourteen years ago)

this has prob already been posted here but fuck it its always warranted

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jioa-89VwSY

ice cr?m, Sunday, 20 February 2011 19:01 (fourteen years ago)

maybe dan snyder & vinny cerrato are close

I don't think it's close. Dolan and Thomas are unstoppable.

I mean, Snyder and Cerrato are bad with personnel but they didn't participate in a disgusting culture of sexual harassment and illegal tactics on top of it. Snyder is a successful businessman in his own right, not a trust funder like Dolan.

Al Davis is a saint by comparison btw.

reggaeton for the painfully alone (polyphonic), Sunday, 20 February 2011 19:42 (fourteen years ago)

Sterling/Baylor were pretty bad but Baylor can't compete with Ike.

reggaeton for the painfully alone (polyphonic), Sunday, 20 February 2011 19:42 (fourteen years ago)

http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nba/news/story?id=6141981

nets package is much better

ice cr?m, Sunday, 20 February 2011 20:41 (fourteen years ago)

It's absurd to me that the Knicks would have to give up that much and STILL might not get the Nugs to pull the trigger.

reggaeton for the painfully alone (polyphonic), Sunday, 20 February 2011 21:39 (fourteen years ago)

""It was a fantastic meeting, trust me," Prokhorov said, according to CNBC.com. "No words, live music, excellent atmosphere. We looked into each other's eyes. Just real man talk.""

Elegant Bitch (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Monday, 21 February 2011 04:43 (fourteen years ago)

uh

ice cr?m, Monday, 21 February 2011 04:45 (fourteen years ago)

ha some p funny emotions being felt by knicks fans - on one hand theyre psyched for getting melo - on the other theyre reminded james dolan is destined to completely fuck everything up http://nymag.com/daily/sports/2011/02/the_knicks_are_likely_to_end_u.html

ice cr?m, Monday, 21 February 2011 15:13 (fourteen years ago)

also stodamire has a tattoo saying 'poverty'

ice cr?m, Monday, 21 February 2011 15:14 (fourteen years ago)

he should get a tatoo saying "trade me"

Daniel, Esq., Monday, 21 February 2011 15:18 (fourteen years ago)

He should have one that says "apostrophe"

EZ Snappin, Monday, 21 February 2011 15:41 (fourteen years ago)

http://l.yimg.com/a/p/sp/tools/med/2011/02/ipt/1298195706.jpg?&sig=RQZNOx_JmL9LigzVUBbyJw--

hi!!!

am0n, Monday, 21 February 2011 15:42 (fourteen years ago)

he can't even do the pat my head, rub my belly thing right.

EZ Snappin, Monday, 21 February 2011 15:45 (fourteen years ago)

head pat / mutombo finger wag

am0n, Monday, 21 February 2011 15:47 (fourteen years ago)

new, intense workout regimen isiah will install when he returns to coach 'melo and 'mare

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_CqDk4jAv_Y4/TSGiWrFEpNI/AAAAAAAAFw4/8j7F_62xKhk/s1600/03.jpg

Daniel, Esq., Monday, 21 February 2011 15:50 (fourteen years ago)

really rooting for the nets to pull this out

call all destroyer, Monday, 21 February 2011 16:33 (fourteen years ago)

sounds like they're less a real factor now, and more a pressure-point to force the NYK to overpay for 'melo.

anyone heard whether billups will demand a buyout if he's traded? i've read that, but mostly in the context of him being shipped to the nets in a 'melo package.

Daniel, Esq., Monday, 21 February 2011 16:56 (fourteen years ago)

if true i'm gonna assume that means melo cannot be convinced to go to new jersey. the knicks package is poor tbh.

call all destroyer, Monday, 21 February 2011 17:07 (fourteen years ago)

http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2007/12/24/amd_knicks-isiah-shirt.jpg

am0n, Tuesday, 22 February 2011 15:36 (fourteen years ago)

haha. well, for all their incompetence, new york could stumble into a nice starting lineup if they sign dwight howard or chris paul when they become free agents (can't get them both).

i think it would be a waste for dwight howard to sign there. new york, under this regime, plays no defense. howard is a great defender, but he can only do so much in that system.

Daniel, Esq., Tuesday, 22 February 2011 15:39 (fourteen years ago)

so are they actually thinner than miami?

call all destroyer, Tuesday, 22 February 2011 15:43 (fourteen years ago)

Dantoni only plays 6 or 7 guys anyways, so bench doesn't matter.

EZ Snappin, Tuesday, 22 February 2011 15:48 (fourteen years ago)

yeah i guess you're right.

next thing knicks need is a real coach.

call all destroyer, Tuesday, 22 February 2011 15:58 (fourteen years ago)

haha. well, for all their incompetence, new york could stumble into a nice starting lineup if they sign dwight howard or chris paul when they become free agents (can't get them both).

― Daniel, Esq., Tuesday, February 22, 2011 10:39 AM (19 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

cant get either due to salary cap / no trade chips

ice cr?m, Tuesday, 22 February 2011 16:00 (fourteen years ago)

nash n dirk 2 knicks

am0n, Tuesday, 22 February 2011 16:01 (fourteen years ago)

cant get either due to salary cap / no trade chips

dwight howard to LAL always seemed more likely to me. crushing blow to the magic -- again.

Daniel, Esq., Tuesday, 22 February 2011 16:03 (fourteen years ago)

i mean i think it's fair to wait and see what the new salary structure is....wouldn't surprise me if there's some grandfathering of old contracts plus the ability to have three max players--it's pretty clear that clustering the elite talent works to the nba's advantage.

call all destroyer, Tuesday, 22 February 2011 16:05 (fourteen years ago)

hollinger hates the trade for new york mostly cause of the opportunity cost, kinda an interesting way to look at it

New York: D+

You can't evaluate this as you would a normal trade. This deal was made at gunpoint, and that colors the entire assessment.

Anthony became the first player in memory to issue a trade demand and then list one team that he'd accept a trade to. And then somehow, the Knicks decided to start bidding against themselves and repeatedly agreed to up the ante in the final hours.

New York could have had Anthony this summer while losing only Chandler (a restricted free agent they would have had to renounce). Their primary risk to that outcome was a "franchise tag" in the new collective bargaining agreement that would have allowed Denver to keep Anthony. But even then plenty of alternatives were available for the Knicks, as three better players -- Chris Paul, Deron Williams, and Dwight Howard -- all seemed anxious to get to the Big Apple via power plays of their own, and one of the three (or another marquee star) may have wriggled free regardless of what new restrictions the next CBA imposes.

This isn't Indiana or Memphis, and this saga laid that reality bare. Even with a franchise tag rule, New York had so many advantages that it was only a matter of time before a second star showed up, especially given the salary cap space the Knicks had carved out.

To get a player like Anthony in those circumstances, it was worth paying something above just Chandler to convert a likely outcome to a certainty.

But in this case the premium New York paid was as follows, beyond Chandler:

• Gallinari
• Mozgov
• Their 2014 first-round draft pick
• Golden State's second-round picks in 2012 and 2013 (owned by the Knicks)
• $6 million in cash ($3 million each to Minnesota and Denver)
• Swallowing two dead-money years at the end of Balkman's contract
• Trading Anthony Randolph for Corey Brewer
• Trading Felton for Billups, making New York eight years older at the point guard spot with a player who makes nearly twice in salary next season. Remind again why they needed to commit to all eight of these additional considerations for a player they were likely to get anyway?

The worst part, of course, is that this deal proves that no matter how many advantages New York gains from its magnetic appeal to potential free agents, owner James Dolan will screw them up. Leaning on the genius of Isiah Thomas -- because it worked out so well for the first time -- he fell hook, line and sinker for every bluff thrown his way by the Nuggets and Melo's people. (Yes, Melo's people participated -- Anthony needed to make sure he got a lucrative contract extension under the current salary rules before being traded.)

New York still gets its Melo-Stoudemire nucleus, but now lacks the supporting pieces to do anything important with that core. And by extending Melo now, they agree to lock him up at such an expensive price that, in concert with Stoudemire's deal, it likely precludes making a run at Chris Paul, Deron Williams or Dwight Howard in 2012.

Denver: B+

With a loaded gun pointed at their heads, the Nuggets bluffed and schemed their way to a very palatable end-game by running circles around the New York area's battling ownership groups. Using New Jersey for leverage and hoping the Knicks were foolish enough to take the bait, Denver eventually squeezed terms that got the Nuggets under the luxury tax line -- a sizable fit considering they were $13 million over -- brought in a much younger point guard, two quality forwards, a young big man, a first-round pick, two second-round picks and cash.

That's not a bad haul, and it still may be improved upon. With Lawson ready to move up to the starting role, it appears Felton may be moved on to a third team. It's not out of the question that Denver could still make the playoffs, and if the Nuggets can hang on to center Nene Hilario -- another of the Nuggets' potential free agents -- Denver will come out of this in far better shape than most teams that lose a star player.

Minnesota: B+

I like Brewer, but I'd trade him for Randolph in a heartbeat. Brewer is a solid role player who plays great defense but can't shoot or dribble. That type of player has his uses, but that's all Brewer will ever be. Helpful, yes, but fungible too.

Randolph has a lower floor but a much higher ceiling. He can't shoot, he weighs 11 pounds and he's a head case. On the other hand, he has rare shot-blocking talent, handles the ball unusually well for a player of his size, and is an elite athlete. He's a potential game-changer at the defensive end and, if the light bulb ever comes on, he's going to provide a very potent complement to Kevin Love's skills in the Minnesota frontcourt.

The price of that trade was just swallowing Curry's expiring contract, but because of the difference in salary between Brewer and Randolph and the $3 million coming from New York, it's pretty much a wash financially. Basically it amounts to a free talent upgrade for Minnesota just for loaning out their cap space to get the Nuggets under the luxury tax.

ice cr?m, Tuesday, 22 February 2011 16:07 (fourteen years ago)

yeah i saw that--heavily based upon taking it as a given that the knicks could've gotten melo over the summer. i mean, do we know how true that really is?

call all destroyer, Tuesday, 22 February 2011 16:09 (fourteen years ago)

i mean i think it's fair to wait and see what the new salary structure is....wouldn't surprise me if there's some grandfathering of old contracts plus the ability to have three max players--it's pretty clear that clustering the elite talent works to the nba's advantage.

― call all destroyer, Tuesday, February 22, 2011 11:05 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

really id imagine one of the main things the league is trying to avoid is all the good players clustering in elite cities creating a tiered set up where most teams never have any chance - theres been a lot of talk form the owners of a franchise tag which is p much the antithesis of wanting more stacked teams - its good to remember that when youre talking abt 'the league' youre talking abt the owners - but even if there was some separate entity just looking out for the interests of the nba as a whole imo crating more miamis would srsly not be a good move - i mean boston la w/e is w/in traditional parameters - but this maimi situation is different - its worth noting that everyone hates them

ice cr?m, Tuesday, 22 February 2011 16:19 (fourteen years ago)

yeah it's also worth noting how good the nba's tv ratings are this year.

i see your point but right now the talent level in the nba is so good that we can have the luxury of a few elite teams and also have tons of teams that are interesting and worth seeing/paying attention to for one reason or another. i tend to feel that all the conventional wisdom stuff about it being a stars league and being an extremely predictable league is otm. is it in anyone's interest to keep a superteam from being built in new york so instead we can have another denver and another phoenix--two teams that were "good" for years but were never going to win a championship?

call all destroyer, Tuesday, 22 February 2011 16:24 (fourteen years ago)

anyway maybe i'm just projecting because the nba is borrrrring when the talent is distributed evenly

call all destroyer, Tuesday, 22 February 2011 16:27 (fourteen years ago)

i dont think it has to be distributed evenly you just want to avoid situation where small market/boring cities feel like they have no chance to compete or keep their best players cause theyre inevitably going conspire w/their friends to go to l.a.

ice cr?m, Tuesday, 22 February 2011 16:37 (fourteen years ago)

yeah i saw that--heavily based upon taking it as a given that the knicks could've gotten melo over the summer. i mean, do we know how true that really is?

― call all destroyer, Tuesday, February 22, 2011 11:09 AM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

well its more that they couldve gotten melo but if they didnt then they prob could get someone even better next year - its speculative for sure - especially considering no one knows what the new cba will look like - but the fact that melo/deron/paul/howard all seem to have some level of interesting new york makes it maybe not such a bad bet - on the other hand melo was actually getable now which has a lot to say for itself - but BUT theyve hamstrung themselves going forward by giving up so much/signing two max players who arent uber eliete guys

ice cr?m, Tuesday, 22 February 2011 16:38 (fourteen years ago)

i mean i think this is absolutely correct

fivethirtyeight Nate Silver
There are ~8-10 guys in the NBA who are worth way more than the max contract. MIA has two right now. If they signed Paul, NYK would have 1.
10 minutes ago

ice cr?m, Tuesday, 22 February 2011 16:41 (fourteen years ago)

yeah i guess the real thing is any one of paul, deron, howard would be a better fit with amar'e. still wacky to call it a d+ deal!

call all destroyer, Tuesday, 22 February 2011 16:41 (fourteen years ago)

yeah its kinda a D+ from the pov of contending for a title, a B+ as far as improvement, and a A+++++ from a marketing standpoint

ice cr?m, Tuesday, 22 February 2011 16:44 (fourteen years ago)

still think the problem w the analysis upthread is that i actually believe melo woulda signed w/ denver to get the $$$. he wanted knicks, but he was gonna get that money no matter what.

end aggro business now (Hunt3r), Tuesday, 22 February 2011 17:02 (fourteen years ago)

yeah but that wouldve been the best possible outcome for the knicks if it lead to them getting one of howard/paul/deron

ice cr?m, Tuesday, 22 February 2011 17:07 (fourteen years ago)

nerds agree http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/02/22/deal-for-anthony-may-limit-knicks-upside

ice cr?m, Tuesday, 22 February 2011 18:09 (fourteen years ago)

i like hollinger's analysis. there's no point in even playing thru the regular-season, really. just calculate how many wins each team will have, based on their roster and offseason acquisitions, and then set-up playoff brackets.

oh, to account for regular-season injuries and wear-and-tear on older players, smash a steel plate against every player's kneecaps, calves and back before starting the playoffs.

Daniel, Esq., Tuesday, 22 February 2011 18:19 (fourteen years ago)

CSheridanESPN Chris Sheridan/Amar'e Stoudemire said he spokely briefly with Carmelo Anthony after trade was agreed to.

sounds awkward.

Daniel, Esq., Tuesday, 22 February 2011 19:15 (fourteen years ago)

i think hollinger makes a lot of sense, altho i think he's underrating melo as a player

pop the s1ock (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 22 February 2011 19:33 (fourteen years ago)

honestly it seems to me like the nba is sort of starting to resemble baseball a bit, tho in an even more exaggerated fashion

like you have the top tier destination spots in the nba now where ppl seem to agree that all FAs want to go (miami, LA, ny, chicago, and i think you could add boston in here once kg/ray/pierce nucleus moves on) just like you have in baseball (yanks, sox, phils etc) except in the nba you have these teams wielding the nature of their locale as the trump card as opposed to the ability to just pay out the wazoo like the red sox or something

then you have everyone else basically, and those teams break down into teams that will spend big money on players and those that won't/can't. like, in the nba you have joe johnson signing a max deal, igoudala coming close, but none of those teams are gonna seriously compete for an nba title any time soon, and i think it's sort of the equivalent of like the mariners signing jayson werth, or the mariners doling out massive money for chone figgins, or the jays paying out their ass for vernon wells

& then you have the smart teams that are gonna lay back & rebuild organically cuz that's the only way you can. like, the thunder = the rays (durant = longoria even) as a team w/ a very smart front office that schooled everyone in draft/development & then even teams like the clippers or memphis (despite throwing mad money at rudy gay) who are developing potential contenders thru the draft, tho even against their will in the clippers case

anyway my point is that i think for a team like denver this is prob a blessing in disguise if their management is good enough, because they're a mid-tier team & signing carmelo to the max for the next three years wasn't gonna bring them any close.

i know it's not a perfect analogy but that's sorta how it feels to me

pop the s1ock (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 22 February 2011 19:42 (fourteen years ago)

totally true. makes me wonder if -- in response -- the owners will demand a revenue-sharing type of system, like the nfl has.

Daniel, Esq., Tuesday, 22 February 2011 19:47 (fourteen years ago)

well its more that they couldve gotten melo but if they didnt then they prob could get someone even better next year - its speculative for sure - especially considering no one knows what the new cba will look like - but the fact that melo/deron/paul/howard all seem to have some level of interesting new york makes it maybe not such a bad bet - on the other hand melo was actually getable now which has a lot to say for itself - but BUT theyve hamstrung themselves going forward by giving up so much/signing two max players who arent uber eliete guys

― ice cr?m, Tuesday, February 22, 2011 11:38 AM (3 hours ago)

yeah this is how i'm seeing this too

kl0p's son (k3vin k.), Tuesday, 22 February 2011 19:56 (fourteen years ago)

that 538 article is great

kl0p's son (k3vin k.), Tuesday, 22 February 2011 20:07 (fourteen years ago)

the first comment on the 538 article is hilarious

"Great article. First time I've seen John Hollinger's stats used for something relevant."

strongly recommend. unless you're a bitch (mayor jingleberries), Tuesday, 22 February 2011 20:31 (fourteen years ago)

ouch.

Daniel, Esq., Tuesday, 22 February 2011 22:36 (fourteen years ago)

woj is unreal

pop the s1ock (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 22 February 2011 22:41 (fourteen years ago)

i love that one (unsourced) quote btw

pop the s1ock (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 22 February 2011 22:42 (fourteen years ago)

When asked on Tuesday how much involvement Thomas had in the Anthony trade, Walsh jabbed, “I’m assuming Isiah’s getting ready for the NCAA tournament.”

lol.

Daniel, Esq., Tuesday, 22 February 2011 22:46 (fourteen years ago)

Once, Thomas brought Dolan with him on a comic-strip recruiting mission of Kobe Bryant(notes): Together, they traveled to California armed with an electric offer: Come take the midlevel exception for a chance to play with Stephon Marbury(notes).

ahhahahahah

Neu! romancer (dayo), Wednesday, 23 February 2011 00:25 (fourteen years ago)

yeah, this sounds like an overblown story. this article sounds like it was kobe playing games with the LAL back in 2004. significantly, however, the linked article does say, in a completely serious-sounding tone, that the NYK tried to entice the LAL to trade kobe bryant for allan houston.

Daniel, Esq., Wednesday, 23 February 2011 00:45 (fourteen years ago)

http://grab.by/9hnS

ice cr?m, Friday, 4 March 2011 00:29 (fourteen years ago)

kidna looks like tyler the creator

Neu! romancer (dayo), Friday, 4 March 2011 00:42 (fourteen years ago)

new ilh board descrip: "Seriously, who the [expletive] is Isiah kidding with this [expletive]"

am0n, Friday, 4 March 2011 00:49 (fourteen years ago)

Kinda feel like the trade made both teams better

reggaeton for the painfully alone (polyphonic), Friday, 4 March 2011 00:59 (fourteen years ago)

two weeks pass...

Since the Melo trade, Nuggets have been 10-3, Knicks have been 7-7. Interesting.

coolsundays, Sunday, 20 March 2011 00:35 (fourteen years ago)

it's almost as if the knicks traded away their entire team and are now forced to give major minutes to ronny turiaf, jared jefferies and toney douglas

blingee cummings (J0rdan S.), Sunday, 20 March 2011 01:47 (fourteen years ago)

after one its the milwaukee bucks 32 and YOUR new york knicks 9

ice cr?m, Sunday, 20 March 2011 19:37 (fourteen years ago)

noooooo way

blingee cummings (J0rdan S.), Sunday, 20 March 2011 19:41 (fourteen years ago)

well, you know what they say about early sunday afternoon games for road teams in milwuakee

blingee cummings (J0rdan S.), Sunday, 20 March 2011 19:42 (fourteen years ago)

a photo pf george karl laughing: http://grab.by/9zZQ

ice cr?m, Sunday, 20 March 2011 19:45 (fourteen years ago)

knicks made a comeback - down by 3 8 minutes left

ice cr?m, Sunday, 20 March 2011 21:05 (fourteen years ago)

the bucks won by five points

ice cr?m, Sunday, 20 March 2011 21:52 (fourteen years ago)

lol?

ice cr?m, Sunday, 20 March 2011 21:52 (fourteen years ago)

three weeks pass...

took yall this important photo while i was in ny

http://i52.tinypic.com/2lcmlic.jpg

ice cr?m, Friday, 15 April 2011 07:06 (fourteen years ago)

clip art that's printed out is next level imo

dayo, Friday, 15 April 2011 07:08 (fourteen years ago)

speling

http://www.candyfavorites.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/HFCA295.jpg

am0n, Friday, 15 April 2011 19:39 (fourteen years ago)

Knicks acquire Amare Stoudemire in off season and Carmelo Anthony at the trading deadline!!

Knicks make playoffs for the first time in umpty-diddly years!!

Knicks get swept 4-0 by the Celtics in the first round!!

Uh. Progress!!

Aimless, Tuesday, 26 April 2011 00:47 (fourteen years ago)

one month passes...

happy trails, donnie

call all destroyer, Friday, 3 June 2011 16:35 (fourteen years ago)

loooool let me guess, they're bringing isiah back

dayo, Saturday, 4 June 2011 00:22 (fourteen years ago)

The Knicks are the gift that keeps on giving.

EZ Snappin, Saturday, 4 June 2011 00:24 (fourteen years ago)

donnie will next be gm'ing a retirement home

johnny crunch, Saturday, 4 June 2011 00:28 (fourteen years ago)

if isiah comes back i will lol so hard for so long

ice cr?m, Saturday, 4 June 2011 03:42 (fourteen years ago)

it would be the lol to end all lols

call all destroyer, Saturday, 4 June 2011 11:48 (fourteen years ago)

two years pass...

lol his band is so obviously a bunch of expensive hired guns -- he stinks

i don't even have an internet (Hurting 2), Thursday, 20 June 2013 20:41 (twelve years ago)

moar like Jimmy D and the Foul Shot

i don't even have an internet (Hurting 2), Thursday, 20 June 2013 21:05 (twelve years ago)

JD

whatever

i don't even have an internet (Hurting 2), Thursday, 20 June 2013 21:06 (twelve years ago)

Dolan out the jamz

Treeship, Thursday, 20 June 2013 21:07 (twelve years ago)

lol

i don't even have an internet (Hurting 2), Thursday, 20 June 2013 21:08 (twelve years ago)

seven years pass...

a good year means you need throwback trainwreck
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/31335411/inside-knicks-secret-attempt-lure-michael-jordan-bulls

Draymond is "Mr Dumpy" (forksclovetofu), Friday, 30 April 2021 14:06 (four years ago)


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