2014 NBA DRAFT

Chad Ford (1:00 PM)

Aloha everyone and welcome to my second chat of the season. I'm in Chicago this week for the Championship Classic between Kentucky-Michigan State, Kansas-Duke. Tons of NBA scouts and GMs will be here to get our first good look at many of the top prospects in the draft playing against each other. We'll talk a little NBA the first half and then do NBA Draft in the second half. Let's roll ...
Mark (OKC) [via mobile]

Do you have "small sample size" ready to paste as an answer to half the questions for chatting efficiency?
Chad Ford (1:00 PM)

Maybe I should just post this and be done with it ... LOL. Read my mind Mark. Read my mind.
Scott (New York)

Do you see MCW as the clear front runner for ROY?
Chad Ford (1:02 PM)

For sure. Not sure there's a close second right now. Steven Adams is the dark horse right now. So impressed with his play at OKC. Better than anything he really did as a freshman at Pittsburgh. Victor Oladipo will always be in the hunt too, but he had some serious shooting woes last week. Things starting to click a bit with Ben McLemore as well.
Sonic (Poland)

Would you trade A. Bennet for next year lottery pick (no 8-14)?Don't want to write him off but am I wrong that in next year lottery may be better talent from no. 1 pick to no. 14 pick than in this year's draft top 3?
Chad Ford (1:04 PM)

Top 10 pick? Yes. Not sure I'd go lower than that. Bennett has talent. He's just out of shape and rusty. But the bigger point is that the 2013 NBA Draft just didn't really have a true No. 1 pick. That's why there was so much uncertainty leading up to the draft. I'd take anyone in my Top 7 right now over anyone in the 2013 Draft.
Nick (SLC)

Do you think the Jazz are aggressively tanking? or just trying to mesh as a team with a new identity and new core players?
Chad Ford (1:06 PM)

No. That's what the Sixers and Suns front office did over the summer (though apparently the players and head coaches didn't get the memo). The Jazz didn't lop off young talent, they just didn't make any efforts to strengthen their team this summer and knew they weren't a playoff team with this group. However the more I watch this group, the more I think that the effect will be the same. They'll be serious contenders for the No. 1 pick -- even when Trey Burke gets back. And I think everyone in Utah will be OK with that. I doubt they do anything to try to make this team competitive.
Noah (L.A.)

If I bet a bunch of money before the season on Markieff Morris winning most improved player, how excited should I be right now?
Chad Ford (1:09 PM)

He's been very good ... but have you seen what Anthony Davis is doing right now in New Orleans? He's second in the entire league in PER and leads the league in Estimated Wins Added. The Pelicans are two completely different teams when he's on or off the floor.
Joe (Arizona)

Do you see either the Suns and/or the Sixers dropping off significantly to meet their preseason expectations?
Chad Ford (1:11 PM)

Probably ... though I'll be the first to admit that they're already better than I thought they'd ever be. I thought the Suns would struggle to win ONE game in the West. They've won 5. But both GMs know that they need another elite player. Guys like Evan Turner and Markieff Morris, who are playing out of their minds right now, could be on the block soon. Selling high is always a good idea when you're rebuilding.
Deven (New York, NY)

Are the Knicks in trouble?
Chad Ford (1:14 PM)

Let's see ... they're playing awful. Hired Isiah Thomas' enabler as the new GM. Tyson Chandler, the soul of last year's team, is out. And on top of it, they can't even throw their hands up in the air and start tanking for Wiggins or Randle. They must send their draft pick to the Nuggets this year, even if it's the No. 1 pick. I guess they could try to trade Carmelo, but just don't see that happening. It's going to be a long year Knicks fans.
ted (cape cod)

If this Celtics team is .500 at the trading deadline, what direction do you think does Danny Aigne take?
Chad Ford (1:16 PM)

Depends on why they are at .500. If that's because Avery Bradley, Jared Sullinger and Kelly Olynyk are leading the charge, he's stoked. If it's a Gerald Wallace and Kris Humphries and Courtney Lee led charge ... changes are coming.
James (Utah)

Does Ty Corbin get fired??
Chad Ford (1:19 PM)

Not sure why. He didn't make the decision to jettison off the team's vets. Nor did he draft Trey Burke. Not sure another coach would have this team playing much better. There are all sorts of positives for Utah right now (and losing might be one of them).
john (jacksonville)

What should miami heat do if big 3 leaves in free agency?
Chad Ford (1:22 PM)

I don't think they're going anywhere ... I love the idea of LeBron returning to Cleveland ... but as long as Dan Gilbert is the owner, I don't see it happening. Besides ... I'm not sure the Cavs have drafted well enough to make it compelling for LeBron. Had they chosen differently on Tristan Thompson, Dion Waiters and Anthony Bennett? Maybe ... but they've clearly missed a few times on players that could've been more helpful to their cause. Thank goodness for Kyrie Irving.
Brian (Chicago)

Are you surprised by the early struggles of Bulls, Heat, and Nets?
Chad Ford (1:24 PM)

Not surprised with Bulls slow start given how long Rose has been out. By mid-season, I don't think this is going to be an issue. Watched the Nets play live on Friday night in Washington and just wasn't impressed -- but this is a veteran team and they're still all getting a feel for each other. I'd be shocked if they didn't end up as a playoff team. As for the Heat ... not sure what's going on there, but won't be concerned unless this is happening in March and April. In other words ... patience.
Matt Levine (Boston)

One more question/thought. I hate the idea of tanking in general I think it's bad for the league. What do you think of the idea of getting rid of our system and having all teams (15-30) have the same chance of getting #1 pick. This would avoid teams purposely losing, and competing to be the worst. Would this make the league more or less competitive in the long run?
Chad Ford (1:28 PM)

It's not a horrible idea, but my fear is that some of the worst teams might never get better. I think they should dump the lottery. My idea is for the league to take a 3 year average to determine draft order. The team with the worst record over the last three years would get the No. 1 pick. If you are going to tank ... you have to commit to three straight years of it before you're in a position to get the No. 1 pick. That would make most GMs think twice -- not sure how many of them could keep their jobs. I also think it would protect from teams taking a one year dip and landing a great pick because they've had an injury or because they are intentionally tanking.
Ed (Queens Village)

Who are must watch players in ESPN Marathon not named Parker, Randle, or Wiggins?
Chad Ford (1:31 PM)

Oh, there's a ton at the Championship Classic. There are 8 players there that I currently have ranked in the lottery. 13 I have ranked in the Top 30 and 17 I have ranked in the Top 50. That's crazy for four teams on the same floor on the same night. Highlights include Kentucky's Andrew and Aaron Harrison, James Young, Willie Cauley-Stein, Alex Poythress and Darkari Johnson, Michigan State's Gary Harris and Adrien Payne, KU's Joel Embiid and Wayne Selden and Duke's Rodney Hood
Tyler (Nova Scotia)

Thoughts on the debuts of Wiggins/Randle/Parker?
Chad Ford (1:32 PM)

Thought they all played really well. Wiggins is never going to be able to live up to the hype. No matter what he does, some are going to be disappointed. To me, all look worthy of the type of praise they've been given in high school.
Brad (Indianapolis)

Which freshman has been the best so far?
Chad Ford (1:33 PM)

Julius Randle has just been a beast. Two double-doubles. Killing everyone. He's the most NBA ready of the prospects. Wiggins may have a little higher ceiling, but Randle is ready right now. I think he'd better than any rookie in the NBA right now.
James (Boston)

Would you draft Randle over Wiggins?
Chad Ford (1:34 PM)

Way too early to tell ... Expected Randle to come out of the gate strong. Ask me again in June :)
Johannes (Denver)

What range do you think Glenn Robinson III will land in in this stacked draft (assuming he comes out this year)? Do scouts see him as having as much huge potential as Michigan fans like myself do?
Chad Ford (1:37 PM)

Scouts really like him. IF he continues to improve his ability to create his own shot? He's a Top 10 pick. Great athletic abilities and size for his position and has that great NBA DNA.
Daniel (Miami)

Is Dante Exum a top 3 pick?
Chad Ford (1:38 PM)

I think so. Hearing from sources that he and his family are now strongly leaning toward skipping college and having him go straight into the NBA. Some NBA guys think he should be the No. 1 pick. Will be interesting to see how they feel if the college guys all live up to the hype while Exum is just working out in Australia.
Andrew (New York)

Is Marcus Smart still a top 10 pick? Would you take him over Exum?
Chad Ford (1:40 PM)

Think he's a Top 10 pick. Depends on what your looking for in a point guard of whether you'd take Exum or Smart. Smart is such a great leader and a defensive force. Exum I think has much more potential as an offensive player. I personally lean Exum right now, but I'm still a big Smart fan as well.
Rick (Chicago)

What other players have you been impressed with the opening week of the college season?
Chad Ford (1:43 PM)

Arizona's Aaron Gordon, Michigan State's Gary Harris, Indiana's Noah Vonleh, NC State's TJ Warren ... I could keep going.
JeremyK (Indy)

Where does Vonleh fall in your projections?
Chad Ford (1:44 PM)

Potential lottery pick. Defensively, I think he could play in the NBA right now. The offense could still use some work. Think he's a real sleeper to crack the Top 10 by the end of the season.
brandon (winston salem)

Chad, do you think the macadoo we saw friday night is the one scouts have been talking about?
Chad Ford (1:46 PM)

Yes and no. He's played well before against weaker competition. Need to see him do that against a ranked opponent.
Chris (Michigan)

How good is Embiid? Is there any Thabeet in him? Who do you like better as a big man prospect, him, Montrezl Harrell, or Cauley-Stein?
Chad Ford (1:47 PM)

Like him a lot. Think he's the best true center prospect in the draft. Great combination of size, quickness and skill. Still doesn't know what he's doing lots of the time, but his learning curve has been off the charts lately. Like Harrell and Cauley-Stein too, but see those guys and borderline lottery picks. Embiid could easily go Top 5.
Paul (Seattle)

Besides Exum, are there any other international prospects that could be a lottery pick?
Chad Ford (1:49 PM)

Teams are pretty excited about Dario Saric. Not everyone loves him, but those that are fans, tend to be big fans. He's off to a fast start in Croatia this year averaging 14.6 ppg, 7.5 rpg and shooting 60 percent from the field. On Saturday, Saric dropped 22 points and 10 rebounds on Mega Vizura. He's No. 8 on our Big Board right now. Croatia's Mario Hezonja another potential lottery pick though he's getting much less run in the ACB in Spain.
Tom (Jax, FL)

Where do you have Kyle Anderson from UCLA right now? He has to go in the lottery right? He seems like a protatipical NBA SF. Has size, handles, can shoot and rebound and plays OK defense. Seems more complete than Otto Porter no?
Chad Ford (1:53 PM)

Still really intrigued with him. He and Saric are the most unique players in this draft -- they are Point 4s ... Point power forwards. He had a very good opening game for the Bruins. If he plays like that all year, he'll likely creep into the late lottery. His lack of athletic ability is what is causing concern ...
Mark (Milwaukee)

Did you have a chance to watch the Wisconsin game last week? Where does Sam Dekkar project. Also, this Badger team seems like the perfect mix to go anti-Bo Ryan and push the tempo and shoot a lot of 3's
Chad Ford (1:54 PM)

I'm a very big Dekkar fan. So are a lot of teams that rely heavily on analytics. Think he could have a big year. He's No. 17 on our Big Board.
Quintin (Scottsdale)

What arebscouts saying about arizona state Jahii Carson?
Chad Ford (1:55 PM)

Like him. Maybe the Kings' Isaiah Thomas is the right comp. Little, but lethal.
Brian (Ann Arbor)

How worried are scouts about McGary's back "condition"?
Chad Ford (1:55 PM)

"Back condition" provokes an automatic response of worry in every NBA scout. We will see how serious it is, but yes, it's scaring teams a bit.
Chad Ford (1:57 PM)

Gotta run everyone. Enjoy the Championship Classic on ESPN tomorrow night. Not sure you'll ever find a finer collection of NBA talent in college on the same floor on the same night.

crazy theres three guys smart mcgary saric who couldve gone top 10 last year who waited for this years historically stacked draft

ESPN Stats & Info ‏@ESPNStatsInfo 45s
Jabari Parker leads all freshmen in Player Efficiency Rating this season. He's on pace for highest PER for any freshman in last 5 seasons.

watched him a bit last night and he does indeed look like a total beast

tho obvs his size is ridiculous for college but will be somewhat more ordinary in the nba

it will be interesting to see what happens with jabari. there is a chance he's more advanced than any of the other freshmen but also closer to being maxed out. there's also a chance he's the a slightly worse version of durant.

he seems like more of a bruiser than durant, i wonder if hes quick enough to defend the three in the nba, maybe hes more of a stretch 4

jabari is someone whose game actually reminds me a bit of tmac... he's less athletic but it seems like dude just pulls up from anywhere on the court at any time and makes a jumper

julius randle is really crazy to watch, i can't get a handle on that guy

yeah have not watched him yet

he's basically unstoppable right now but i get some beasley vibes from his game that make me wonder how well he'll translate

yeah was wondering if beas wasnt the last guy to have a higher per than jabari

randle seems a lot more physically talented than beas was

randle can handle a little bit but i dunno he's listed at 6' 9" which prob means he's even shorter but he seems to be mostly a post player which i think is concerning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdsY62qaCoA

like, i don't see how much of any of this translates to the nba. he's just outmuscling random dudes from michigan state. but then there's the one play where he goes coast to coast and finishes with the ease of a point guard so who knows.

just one game of course

Could be a paul millsap type of dude

would be pretty funny if none of these guys developed into superstars

Could be a paul millsap type of dude

― 乒乓, Tuesday, November 19, 2013 12:34 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark

yea true

lot of z-bo vibes too, also a lefty

randle's handle is diff than all those dudes, i assume that's why he's considered a top 3 pick

not really integrated into his game at the moment it seems like

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDVCEDrHPlU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxXictCDDqA

ballin out

jabari is really damn good

wow that block -> coast to coast euro. dude could start in the NBA today

talking about jabari

i can see the concerns about his athleticism but i think if i was in nba team who had to win a game tomorrow i'd rather have him than, like, rudy gay

marcus smart could also prob start in the nba today

wow yeah smart looking extremely good there against srs competition

smart's flop game is ready for sure

important nba skill

Mamadou Ndiaye's rising stock
NBA scouts are on alert following the 7-foot-6 center's breakout performance
Updated: November 20, 2013, 11:18 AM ET
By Kevin Pelton | ESPN Insider

The biggest NBA prospect in the country has been developing in relative obscurity with the UC Irvine Anteaters, but if Mamadou Ndiaye continues to play like he did in Thursday's upset win over the Washington Huskies, he'll soon be a household name.

At 7-foot-6, the freshman from Senegal is believed to be the tallest player currently active in the U.S. He dwarfs Rudy Gobert, the Utah Jazz rookie who was drafted in the first round largely on the strength of his size. Gobert, who is listed at 7-2, recorded a record 7-foot-8½ wingspan at last spring's NBA draft combine. Ndiaye blows that away -- his wingspan was measured at an incredible 8-1 at the 2012 Amar'e Stoudemire Skills Academy.

Tools like that are enough to make Ndiaye a game-changing presence with just a few weeks of high-level experience. After two quiet outings to start his career, he powered Irvine's win over a Pac-12 opponent with a near triple-double: 18 points on 7-of-9 shooting to go with eight rebounds and nine blocks in 26 minutes.

"He's an incredible factor on a game," Irvine coach Russell Turner said. "He really performed tonight. Really performed. And that was without us involving him in the game much early offensively. In the past, when we haven't been able to do that, he's gotten discouraged. The impact he has is immeasurable."

Ndiaye's size altered UW's game plan at both ends. With more than a quarter of their 2-point attempts ending in blocks, the Huskies were forced to resort to uncomfortable floaters or avoid the rim entirely. Offensively, Ndiaye's finishing ability forced defenders to stay at home, opening up driving lanes for the Anteaters' guards. And when Irvine was able to enter the ball to the post, a Ndiaye bucket was nearly automatic.

A pair of NBA scouts were in attendance Thursday to watch Ndiaye, and more will surely follow as he continues to develop his game. Already, Ndiaye is ranked 65th in Chad Ford's Top 100.

At this point in his development, Ndiaye isn't close to being NBA-ready. Even when the Anteaters played man-to-man defense, Ndiaye effectively played a one-man zone, keeping him close to the basket. The NBA's three-second violation will prevent him from doing the same, and pro centers will make him pay if he's unable to step out and defend on the perimeter.

Still, Ndiaye's tools are tantalizing. He can avoid foul trouble because he rarely needs to leave the ground to contest shots, and at times he demonstrated surprising quickness for his size in terms of contesting shots out of his area.

The track record of behemoth centers in the NBA is distinctly mixed. Since 7-6 Shawn Bradley and 7-7 Gheorge Muresan were drafted in 1994, Yao Ming is the only player taller than 7-3 to have any kind of NBA career. A pair of 7-5 prospects, Pavel Podkolzin (No. 21 in 2004) and Slavko Vranes (No. 39 in 2003), were drafted but quickly washed out of the league.

What will potentially separate Ndiaye from their ranks is his ability to continue to develop both his body (while not rail-thin like Manute Bol, he could stand to improve his base) and his skills (particularly his footwork and his flat perimeter shot; he's just 8 of 25 from the free throw line thus far). On that front, Turner is encouraged.

"What you saw tonight is just how committed he is to being good because he's getting better," said Turner. "Every day he's getting better. That's because of how bad he wants to be a player and a great teammate."

While it led to a technical for screaming at his defender after one finish, the emotion Ndiaye showed on the court demonstrated his desire. Ndiaye reinforced that after the game, using "keep improving" and "get better" as mantras with the small media contingent surrounding him.

"I think I've improved in my footwork, my jump shot, my rebounding and my running up and down the floor," he said. "I'm still working. I have a lot of work to do. I need to work on everything to get better to go to a high level."

If he does, the NBA will be waiting.

The issue with Ndiaye is that he had gigantism. The injury track record for guys with that condition is very bad. With Muresan basically everything went right and they only got 2 good years out of him.

it's absolutely ludicrous that he was only recruited by two schools, what is wrong with college coaches?

btw I'm pretty sure that Ndiaye has the second longest wingspan in hoops history behind Bol's 8'4.

I don't see how any hoops fan doesn't get excited about this sort of guy

haven't seen him play but "huge underrecruited dude" doesn't exactly scream "fun to watch"

huge dude is always fun

haven't seen him play but "huge underrecruited dude" doesn't exactly scream "fun to watch"

― twist boat veterans for stability (k3vin k.), Thursday, November 21, 2013 12:24 AM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

wtf dude

he was "under-recruited" but also a top 100 prospect so...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epU5oSz5LLE

huge dude is always fun

― lag∞n, Wednesday, November 20, 2013 4:33 PM (13 minutes ago) Bookmark

exactly

Tom Haberstroh ‏@tomhaberstroh 6m
Probably (maybe?) a coincidence, but since that Wiggins-Parker-Randle night, MIL/ORL/BOS/PHI/PHX/UTA are 3-23 combined.

man just checking out this page http://www1.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/detailed and recalling how amazing it is that boston got FOUR first rounders from brooklyn for garnett-pierce-terry lmfao

(actually 3 and the right to swap another)

i like marcus smart, i like how this piece flips the script http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/10041111/marcus-smart-returns-oklahoma-state

putting the system stephen a. and skip on trial.

chad ford or someone was saying recently that they thought smart stayed because he thought he would get a chance to improve on stuff like ballhandling more in college than in the nba, which seems to fit with that piece.

for someone with elite talent whos m/l guaranteed playing time/attention from coaches in the nba i dont see how college could be better for developing skills, youre limited by law how much time you can spend in formal practice and youre playing against inferior competition and being coached by inferior coaches, plus it seems like one year is just prob not gonna make a huge difference in a career development arc, idk maybe for some guys it might help from a confidence standpoint to just totally fn own for a year in college, i support smart staying in college to enjoy himself cause life in the nba is obvs fairly hellish

fwiw i do think both college and nba would benefit from requiring players to stay two years on both a quality of play and marketing level - guys would have two years to build a name and wreck the college game and then theyd be a year older and better at basketball when they hit the pros

I would be ok with a 2 year minimum if you could also go straight to the pros. Drummond did not belong in college.

Get rid of the 1 year rule and destroy the NCAA

duh

Enforce a 4 year rule and donate money to the NCAA

players can goto Europe if they want which is kinda fun

objectively speaking players shouldn't be forced to go to college but what's the evidence that it hurts any players?

even players like drummond or harrison barnes that come in with tons of hype and have disappointing freshman seasons can come out after one year w/o any real hit to their draft stock. even nerlens noel saw no severe hit to where he was drafted.

and then some guys like anthony davis or anthony bennett really kinda explode

i mean maybe someone like shabazz muhammad is the counterpoint to that but for all these guys it's the second nba contract that matters... as long as you get taken in the lottery (or really the first round) you're set up to have a successful and v profitable nba career if you're good enough to attain that

idk maybe the real counterexample is a player like archie goodwin or something, but then again no one forced him to come out so idk

There's a lot of examples both ways

i can't think of a player in the one and done era who would've been a top ~10 pick out of high school who did irrevocable damage to his draft stock in one season

...myck kabongo?

B Jennings?

maybe! that was a unique situation though

and still he was a top 10 pick who signed a deal for $8/m a year off his rookie deal, he turned out ok

i bet if jennings had just gone to arizona he would've been picked a few spots earlier

yah prob

willie warren or something is prob the real answer

this year's class could provide some examples considering just how radically hyped 5 or 6 guys are.

i can't think of a player in the one and done era who would've been a top ~10 pick out of high school who did irrevocable damage to his draft stock in one season

I guess Bill Walker definitely counts though not quite "damage" in the same sense?

i can't think of a player in the one and done era who would've been a top ~10 pick out of high school who did irrevocable damage to his draft stock in one season

― le goon (J0rdan S.), Monday, December 2, 2013 3:44 AM (7 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Selby, perhaps.

yeah that's a good one

http://tankingforwiggins.com

updated hourly!

denver with a 12% chance to get the #1 pick, nice

knicks ping pong balls coming through and denver getting the pick would be the greatest thing to ever happen

marcus smart dunked from outside the lane tonight

http://tankingforwiggins.com

updated hourly!

― The 'P' is a mystery (Clay), Wednesday, December 18, 2013 1:53 AM (21 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

what a lame domain name smh

http://i.imgur.com/8X5fkBz.png

Thought this thread was bumped for this.

we talked abt it a lil on the main thread fwiw

If they go to the wheel will they still be able to trade picks?

sure

That's not as fun as not knowing what the pick is going to be but with all the protections modern contracts have at least it would make things a little simpler.

i wonder how it would affect the number of deals that get done, increase, decrease

Jonathan Tjarks ‏@JonathanTjarks 51s
Mitch McGary is having surgery on his lower back and he is 21.

all bummer injury news all the time

mitch mcgary going back to school was an all-time bad draft decision

yeah wtf he couldve gone v high, tho teams were already concerned re his back, still he wouldve fallen to what the low teens at most

ESPN Stats & Info ‏@ESPNStatsInfo 6m
Jabari Parker has 20+ Pts in 10 of his 12 games this season, 1 shy of tying Gene Banks' Duke freshman record (set in 1977-78).

man been playing with this http://espn.go.com/nba/lottery2014/mockdraft and when the celtics draft 6th and marcus smart falls to them they take aaron gordon instead why do you hate marcus smart celts wtf

they already have rondo and bradley?

looks like the nuggs are getting zach levine, whoever that is

knicks need to stop winning

yeah but theyre totally happy to take dante exum xp

I don't get the Dario Saric thing yet

sweet ass table

http://cdn1.sbnation.com/assets/3753977/Draft1_large.png

rest is here http://www.brewhoop.com/2013/12/23/5235536/nba-draft-rankings-2014-joel-embiid-zach-lavine

iirc when Embiid committed to KU he was ranked in the 90s or so among 2013 recruits. Bill Self is good.

I saw the DX tweet that this draft isn't that great outside the top 7 but I think he's just trying to be contrarian

lol check out this sad story

Dec 17 Update: Harrison continues to be on the Big Board more because of his reputation coming in than his actual performance on the court. The area where he's been most effective is getting to the line. In fact, he's taken 74 free throws compared to 71 shots. That's pretty amazing. But with so many talented players on Kentucky's roster, why isn't his assist total higher?

Nov. 27 Update: Harrison continues to struggle -- primarily against expectations. NBA scouts had him billed as a potential top-10 pick coming out of high school, but his play so far has been uneven. He has looked solid at times for Kentucky but has rarely looked like a lottery pick. With that said, Harrison made some key plays for Kentucky down the stretch in a last-minute comeback win against Cleveland State. Showing poise in tight games will be exactly how he works himself back into the top 10. The talent is clearly there, he just wasn't quite as ready as we thought.

Nov. 13 Update: Harrison's stats weren't horrendous, but when you factor in how Appling lit him up, it wasn't pretty. For months scouts had Harrison pegged as a potential top-5 pick. Scouts didn't see anything like that on Tuesday. He looked hesitant to take control of the team and, despite a few exceptional plays, just looked overmatched. We're not going to overreact -- young point guards under Calipari have a history of struggling out of the gate (see Derrick Rose, Tyreke Evans, Brandon Knight, Marquis Teague). In short, there's still a lot of time for him to turn things around. Given his shaky start, I might move him out of the Top 10 and replace him with Harris.

Nov. 12 Update: Harrison is going to direct traffic for the most talented team in America. That's a lot of pressure for a freshman, and the early reports out of Lexington have been a bit of a mixed bag. In his first game, he scored eight points, handed out five assists, but took just three shots in 29 minutes. In his second game, he improved with 13 points and three assists. Those aren't "wow" numbers, but there are so many weapons for Kentucky, Harrison doesn't have to do it all. The point guard position might be the weakest of any in the draft, and given Harrison's size and versatility, he still projects as a top-10 player. Harrison has a size and skill advantage over the Spartans' Keith Appling on Tuesday, but Appling is a talented fourth-year player who should really push Harrison.

Nov. 6 Update: In a normal year, an elite 6-foot-5, athletic point guard who can see the floor and score from anywhere on the court, playing for a program known for getting point guards drafted high, would be in the conversation for the No. 1 pick. However, this isn't a normal year and Harrison isn't playing on a normal team. There's so much talent in the draft and at Kentucky that Harrison's stock faltered a bit during the summer. If he can lead the Wildcats to a national championship, he, too, could hear his name called in the top five picks.

Sept. 9 Update: If the Bucks somehow can get their hands on one of those top three point guards, they'll do it. The team acquired Brandon Knight in a trade this summer, but he doesn't have the long-term potential of Exum, Smart or Harrison. Harrison has as much talent as Smart and Exum, but slides a bit because of questions about his attitude. If John Calipari can get him to mature -- remember when John Wall had all the same questions surrounding him before he played for Calipari at Kentucky? -- then the Bucks could potentially land the best point guard prospect in the draft.

Aug 13 Update: That's right. We have seven Wildcats in our top 30. That has never happened before. Harrison doesn't get the love his brother receives despite the fact in many ways, they are the same kind of player. Andrew's ability to play the point is what really sets him apart. Aaron is strong, athletic and can score from everywhere, too.

Aug 13 Update: Harrison is the last player in this group that scouts are convinced is a sure-fire All-Star. Blessed with size, athleticism and terrific court vision, Harrison is the prototypical point guard of the future. The only things pushing his ranking down are question marks about his attitude and work ethic. Kentucky head coach John Calipari has a way of righting wrongs, however, and most scouts feel that a season at Kentucky is exactly what Harrison needs to polish up his resume. He should be Smart's top competitor for the top point guard in the draft.

Apr 22 Update: Harrison is a huge point guard who finds great balance between scoring and dishing out assists. He is difficult to contain in the paint, has a great crossover and is a strong finisher at the rim. He is a competitor who loves a challenge. He had 19 points (10 on free throws) and led Team USA with five assists in the Hoop Summit game. He should battle Oklahoma State's Marcus Smart as the top point guard in the 2014 draft. Another potential top-5 pick, Andrew's twin brother, Aaron, also is a legit NBA prospect as a 2-guard and one to watch.

Dec 21 Update: NBA scouts love big point guards -- especially ones who are truly point guards. Add to the mix that he's playing for John Calipari (who coached both Derrick Rose and John Wall to the No. 1 pick), and you can understand that if anyone challenges Wiggins for the No. 1 pick, it might be Harrison.

iirc when Embiid committed to KU he was ranked in the 90s or so among 2013 recruits. Bill Self is good.

― Matt Armstrong, Tuesday, January 14, 2014 10:32 PM (28 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah he has a rep as being a bit too good i guess, a lot of his players have been drafted higher than they shouldve been

was listening to the simmons and jalen podcast and they were saying that the draft is really deep but might not have the durant-level talent at the top that people might've initially thought

i would more or less agree with that assessment

yeah hard to say but id guess with all that depth chances are at least one of those guys will turn into a super duper start even if its not obvious which one itll be

yeah maybe that's more accurate. there could be a paul george or giannis lurking in the late lottery.

or one of the guys at the top could live up to their billing too would not be at all surprised if one of those top 6 guys was a 12 time all star

or two of them who knows skys the limit 2014 NBA DRAFT!!!

BREAKING chad for has moved embiid to #1 on his big board

The buzz on Embiid has been building slowly since the McDonald's All American Game and the Nike Hoop Summit last spring. Once considered a raw prospect who would take years to develop, Embiid seems to be improving by the week. Not only is he the most dominant big man in college basketball right now, but his college PER ranks second among players in our Top 30 (Creighton's Doug McDermott is No. 1).

Embiid's offensive game looks especially promising. In his last seven games, he's averaging 13.4 points in 24 minutes per game. He's blessed with quickness, excellent footwork and a soft touch on his jumper. His defense continues to improve, as well as his rebounding. He needs to get stronger, improve his in-game basketball IQ, and learn how to control his temper when teams get physical with him. But Embiid is one of the few big-man prospects who passes both the eye test and the production test. There isn't a player in this draft with a higher ceiling. Given his strong production of late, he no longer appears as risky as we once thought and could end up being the consensus No. 1 pick in the draft come June.

kansas has the 1 & 2 players and the #20 player and is ranked 15

who's gonna draft this motherfucker from creighton i just started hearing about

kansas has the 1 & 2 players and the #20 player and is ranked 15

― le goon (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, January 15, 2014 2:29 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

v sus

kind of wonder if some of the latercomers to media attention are just kind of piggybacking on the overal 2014 draft hype and getting more play than they otherwise would

chad ford jumping on the this draft isnt actually that deep train now:

I think there's a significant drop off after the No. 5 and another big drop off after No. 10. This draft doesn't feel as deep to me in the late lottery and mid first round as in years past.

great

i wonder if ford and the draft xpress guy talk or not

your new consensus #1

Why Joel Embiid is No. 1
Chad Ford and Kevin Pelton discuss why NBA teams covet Kansas big man

ESPN Insider's Chad Ford and Kevin Pelton return to provide the kind of discussions that are happening in front offices around the NBA -- where scouts and statistical experts are breaking down NBA draft prospects using their "eyes, ears and numbers."

1. Is Joel Embiid really the No. 1 NBA prospect?

Kevin Pelton: Chad, after consulting with scouts and watching the top prospects, you moved Embiid to the top of your Big Board on Wednesday. Well, my WARP projections already had him tied with Jabari Parker as the best of the freshmen. Let's take a look at why the numbers are so high on Embiid, starting with his field goal percentage.

Embiid's offensive game is much more polished than many scouts and NBA execs thought.
Embiid has made 69.7 percent of his attempts inside the arc. That would place him among the best NCAA finishers of the past decade and a half. And those raw stats don't consider that Kansas has played the nation's most difficult schedule.

Factoring that in, the history of NCAA-to-NBA translations suggests Embiid's performance is equivalent to making 60 percent of his 2-point attempts in the NBA, which would be incredible for a rookie. (Per Basketball-Reference.com, just five rookies have shot better than 60 percent on 2-pointers in the past decade.) In fact, part of the reason Embiid's WARP projection isn't higher is that the system assumes he's shooting so well from the field that it has to be partly fluky. If he can keep it up the rest of the season, he'll dramatically improve his projection.

Chad Ford: The popular conception about Embiid is that he's a risky choice. The narrative on him is that he's this raw big man who has moved up the board completely on upside. That's the media narrative I get, but there are also still GMs and scouts who view him this way. That's the part I don't understand. The numbers don't suggest that Embiid is a risky pick at all. Neither does the eye test. He's actually quite polished offensively and has gotten more aggressive as the season has worn on.

I'm also interested in how he compares to the two guys we had atop our Big Board the past two seasons -- Anthony Davis and Nerlens Noel. Both players were considered "projects", too, in January -- especially Noel -- but in both cases, their numbers said they were the top prospect in the draft. Obviously, Davis has proved that to be true. Noel is still recovering from ACL surgery, so we don't know yet how he'll fare in the NBA.

2. How does Embiid compare to Anthony Davis and Nerlens Noel?

Pelton: Embiid is clearly a different kind of player offensively, playing a much larger role in the Kansas offense but also turning the ball over much more frequently in the post than Davis, in particular, did at Kentucky. (Davis has ended up being a far higher-usage player as a pro.) Here's how his performance, translated to its NBA equivalent, compares to Davis and Noel through mid-January of their freshmen campaigns:

http://i.imgur.com/QWp5OVf.png

Defensively, Embiid is in the ballpark with Davis and Noel with one major exception -- his foul rate. Embiid is averaging 6.8 fouls per 40 minutes, and while that's partially attributable to whistles being increased throughout the NCAA, that doesn't account for the entire discrepancy between him and the Kentucky duo. Is that a concern for scouts?

Ford: It is. Again, back to the raw narrative: He hasn't been playing basketball that long. Learning how to play big and not foul takes time, and Embiid is clearly still feeling things out. He'll have to take another huge leap when he moves from college to the NBA. Surprisingly, most of the NBA guys I talk to, especially the old-timers, really want him to stay another year at Kansas. That's a fairly rare sentiment. Usually, NBA scouts and GMs want players in the draft.

Some of it is selfish (the more players in the draft, the better chances a good player falls to them), and some of it is pragmatic (many in the NBA believe that players pick up bad habits in college and it's better for them to learn the NBA game right away). But for Embiid, they feel like one more year of tutelage under Bill Self could make him unstoppable. I doubt Embiid stays, given the fact he looks like he's a lock for a top-three pick, but it's interesting nonetheless. No one is saying that about Andrew Wiggins, Jabari Parker or Dante Exum.

3. What's the downside to Embiid?

Pelton: In the context of that discussion, it's worth mentioning the one strike against Embiid: his age. Because he's so new to basketball, the fact that he's a full year older than Parker -- and just 10 days younger than Marcus Smart -- hasn't gotten much attention. Embiid is the most interesting test case yet of whether age or basketball experience matters more when it comes to future development.

Because of that, I think it's best for Embiid to go pro. His dominance at the college level might also limit his ability to grow. Already, he's No. 2 in the NCAA in advanced statistical plus-minus. When he's dominating a team like Iowa State with nobody taller than 6-foot-7, I don't know how much that's helping him prepare for the NBA.

Ford: I think that's a great point to end on, Kevin.

There just aren't that many big men in the college game who are really going to challenge Embiid. If he's going to reach his potential, he needs to be challenged by people with his size and abilities. That said, one of the reasons that Embiid is so attractive as a No. 1 pick is that there just aren't that many special 7-footers who play like a center in the NBA these days. Having someone like that gives your team a huge advantage, and it's ultimately why I think Embiid ends up the favorite to go No. 1. If he reaches his potential, you could make the argument pretty easily that he has the ability to be the best player at his position in the NBA someday. That's certainly a compelling argument to take him No. 1.

Jonathan Givony ‏@DraftExpress 14s
Was wondering when the "Isaiah Austin is blind in one eye" story will reach the public consciousness. Talked about it in our preseason video

uh oh

seems not ideal

def not eye-deal

rudy gay was blind in both eyes, didn't stop him

rudy gay is unstoppable tbf

embiid was excellent today, put up 13/11/8

Isiah Austin has looked terrible forever, never understood what the hype was all about

hes a super athletic 7 footer but yeah hes bad

It all depends on who actually enters the draft and all, but this crop looks so deep. I really think Ford and Givony are searching for a story here.

like that Jusuf Nurkic guy is the kind of center prospect who ends up in the lottery all the time but this year he'll be lucky to go top 20.

everyone has embiid going #1 now, good thing the bucks gave larry sanders 44 million dollars LOL

the larry sanders craze was a pretty funny thing huh

larrys just having lost season

nah he wasn't ever really good at basketball he blocked some shots

He's undoubtedly one of the best rim protectors in the league now though.

ya too bad he fouls out every other game

there's still a good chance he'll be worth that money

r u just trying to make matt madd

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18heur1z2xqvogif/ku-medium.gif

if you guys think you're getting work like this outta embiid well i just don't know

Earned his contract with one single gif

Aren't 7'0" 250lb dudes who run fast often prone to injury?

the nba press should stop categorizing players by position altogether

i'm reading this chad ford mock draft and he has wiggins (at 6' 8") as a shooting guard. can't we just call him a "wing" officially

yeah most players prob have some overlap between positions in todays nba but especially sg/sf

if youre 6-8 realistically youre prob gonna be a 3 in most situations and likely a 4 in occasional smallball lineups

what is marcus smart's position? he doesn't seem that good at dribbling. is he quick enough to play point?

he seems to be the rare combo guard who is actually great at defense

i think his position is "waiters" but his skillset is the inverse

the nba press should stop categorizing players by position altogether

i'm reading this chad ford mock draft and he has wiggins (at 6' 8") as a shooting guard. can't we just call him a "wing" officially

― le goon (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, January 22, 2014 8:53 PM (1 week ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

that's why we have terms like swingman

even if the Bucks didn't have LARRY SANDERS Embiid would still be an awkward fit with John Henson. That's the real issue they have to address imo, need to really see if those two guys can play together or not.

I think the best player in the draft for them is Exum.

http://www.lostlettermen.com/files/images/uploads/article/Chris_Walker_Florida_Lips_Tattoos.jpg

basktblolz

wtf

Fran Fraschilla ‏@franfraschilla 52s

Ugly scene in Lubbock as Marcus Smart continues his implosion. Goes into crowd and pushes a fan.

watching the video its obvious that the fan said something to provoke him

http://today.ttu.edu/2010/03/texas-tech-basketball-fan-extraordinaire/

any 50 year old man provoking a teenager deserves to be shoved at the very least

feel bad for m smart :(

texas tech fans are pathetic enough as it is. that old man deserved worse.

threadban, dude

wiggins today: 41 points, 8 boards, 2 assists, 5 steals, 4 blocks

kansas loses to WVU tho w/ embiid out

have teammates ever gone 1-2

lol http://thebiglead.com/2014/03/08/iowa-state-students-flopped-en-masse-to-mock-marcus-smart-during-pregame-introductions

haha u flop ohhh

feeling like this guy hood might be better than jabari in the league

hood seems very boom/bust

if i had to rank my top 10 draft guys (excluding saric, who i haven't seen) i'd go

1. wiggins
2. embiid
3. gordon
4. exum
5. jabari
6. smart
7. ennis
8. hood
9. vonleh
10. randle

have teammates ever gone 1-2

― lag∞n, Saturday, March 8, 2014 12:00 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Davis and Kidd-Gilchrist

lol there u go, long time ago tho

so embiid is out indefinitely with back problems. that seems ... not good.

Aren't 7'0" 250lb dudes who run fast often prone to injury?

― signed, J.P. Morgan CEO (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 22 January 2014 20:51 (1 month ago) Permalink

as opposed to slow ones? i feel like someone did some sort of study and concluded that 6'10" was the least injury-prone height for nba players. or that they had the longest careers, or something. which is to say ¯\(°_o)/¯

athleticism is def a risk factor for injury but it also helps you be good at basketball so like idk you could just draft unathletic guys and see how it works out lol

and yeah iirc height only correlates w injury at very very tall like over 7-2

if i had to rank my top 10 draft guys (excluding saric, who i haven't seen) i'd go

― le goon (J0rdan S.), Sunday, March 9, 2014 4:25 PM (2 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I've watched Saric a lot and I don't get it. Yeah he's an amazing passer but he's not very athletic, can't really shoot... but people absolutely swear by him.

Saric also literally hired a mercenary organization to be his talent agency.

read something about how it looks like h might not even enter this draft

I also don't really see it with Mirotic but I've seen a few credible writers say he would go number 1 in this draft. And obviously he's a great shooter.

just kind of seems like physics to me that a massive guy moving at high speeds is going to have extra strain and injury risk but I don't have data on that or anything.

Saric also literally hired a mercenary organization to be his talent agency.

― Matt Armstrong, Monday, March 10, 2014 11:43 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

smart guy

i'd probably put young in my top 10 now after the tournament... any young player with that shooting stroke who can also handle the ball has to be a top 10 pick or higher imo

i feel like he has some wes matthews to his game but with a higher ceiling

yeah idk he only shot 35% from three for the year, thats not good

feel like hes one of those guys who does really cool things occasionally and looks like he shd be good but is actually not

no one really shoots high percentages in college tho do they

yeah that's less of a concern to me now after bradley beal immediately jumped to a ~40% shooter from three after shooting 33% at florida

i think especially if you watch kentucky you notice that their offense is mostly a total mess and someone like young gets maybe 3 or 4 clean looks a game because of it

but his stroke is very pure and he can put it on the floor too

ncaa should really move its 3 point line back, clear out some space down there

surfbort memes get played out, totally (k3vin k.)
Posted: April 8, 2014 at 4:15:55 PM
no one really shoots high percentages in college tho do they

yeah lots of guys shoot very well

le goon (J0rdan S.)
Posted: April 8, 2014 at 4:25:07 PM
yeah that's less of a concern to me now after bradley beal immediately jumped to a ~40% shooter from three after shooting 33% at florida

lol cmon

of course there are college players that shoot well but you also have to consider a player's age (young doesn't turn 19 until august) and the players around him

in the long run it's obviously better to try and evaluate a player's tools rather than how that person applies them in college

feel like college shooting and pro shooting are pretty strongly correlated, especially like if you cant make the college three its hard to extend yr range to the pro line, obvs if you have reason to think the guy is actually a shooter and it hasnt shown up just cause of the system or you feel like he has a nice stroke and can be coached into hitting at a higher rate or w/e you can use that for eveluation too, but thats pretty atypical imo

http://deanondraft.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/nikpass.gif?w=300&h=190

lol wut

sick pass

haha wtf

Tim MacLean ‏@MacLeanNBA 1m

Celtics reportedly lost the "coin flip" for the 4th best lotto odds to the Jazz. Boston cannot get the number 4 pick in any circumstance.

loooooool. =x

:(

The Jazz are in the western conference, the Celtics in the eastern conference. It was destiny.

today my friend pat was like "we should look into going to the draft" and i think we may actually do it

Dario Saric had a massive game in his league championship today, talk of top 10 again.

Reminder that his talent agency is a mercenary militia.

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Dario-Saric-Adriatic-League-Final-Four-Video-Analysis-4488

lol that video someone tell these euros to get their hands up and contest a shot damn

his passing and rebounding are definitely legit, really unusual player

http://www.nba.com/kings/draft-30

The Challenge
Devise your own methodology for evaluating the long-term value of potential NBA draftees by position.*
Use historical, publicly-available and individually-sourced data to develop your entry and follow these steps (All steps are mandatory):
Enter your individual and/or team details.
Share your methodology by uploading your research and analysis in the below fields.
Complete your five positional rankings using the specified player pools and corresponding drag-and-drop functions, then verify and submit.
The Selection
All submissions will be collected from launch through May 19, 2014. The participants who provide the most insightful and inventive analyses will be considered for an invitation to a Kings Draft Advisory Council -- led by GM Pete D'Alessandro -- and convene regulary until Draft Day.

The Ultimate
Based on performance, up to two individuals from the Draft Advisory Council will be considered for an invitation to join D'Alessando, owner Vivek Ranadivé and Kings basketball operations in the team's Draft Room on June 26.

*Only includes Draft-eligible players who played in the 2013-14 NCAA season.

Encouraging thousands of delusional fans, while simultaneously playing the longest possible odds that some unknown geek genius will drop a multi-million dollar idea on you for pennies.

Sam Amico ‏@SamAmicoFSO
#NBA GM on pre-draft stuff: "If we scouted back then like we do today, Orlando Woolridge would've been a better prospect than Magic & Bird."

http://photos-h.ak.instagram.com/hphotos-ak-prn/10299905_724686437584103_446876246_n.jpg

andrew wiggins can jump high

kid showing good jumpability, kudos

He's got nothing to lift off the ground. He's like 85lbs

would be interesting to see some older nba vets doing the same test and compare their verticals today to themselves as a young 'un.

timmy d's got like a 10 inch vert now

Yeah kg would be sad to see. Timmy would be exactly the same. The high flyers like Vince and Kobe would be interesting to see

10 is maybe generous

never forget kd benched 185 zero times in the combine then said "good thing a basketball weighs less than that" and went on to be yr 2014 nba mvp

Bench press means nothing for bball players

Obv

Unless you're banging around in the best I guess but even then you just need a strong core and legs

Best = post

Kd has the weirdest body maybe on the planet

yeah bench press is really not a good measure of basketball related strength and yes lol kd does not have a typically athletic build but he makes it work my lord

I've said it before but the generation of ballers that comes up influenced by kd is gonna be so bizarre

a lot of 6' 10" guys who can't shoot trying to shoot

yeah and just like "hell a 12 foot floater, why not a 16 foot floater"

that horse was out of the barn way before KD.

Sam Amico ‏@SamAmicoFSO
#NBA GM on pre-draft stuff: "If we scouted back then like we do today, Orlando Woolridge would've been a better prospect than Magic & Bird."

― moullet, Monday, May 12, 2014 6:30 PM (5 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Woolridge was an amazing talent tho. And he went 6th so it's not like people weren't sold lol.

lol can't wait to see how the cavs fuck up this massive jump in the draft

lololololol

lol detroit

stop ruining our canadian ballers cleveland

if nothing else the east is getting a lot of big young talent and that's probably best case

WOW

Oh god not the cavs again

HAHAHAHAHAHHAHA

WE'RE NEVER COMING BACK HERE for twelve months

maybe they'll get to draft an anthony bennett every year

R U http://www.comicbookqueers.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Yahoo-Serious.jpg

cavs rep resemblance to a tiny louis ck kinda weirdin me out

fixed

fuuuuuuck

WTF SORT IF DEAL DID THE CAVS MAKE HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE

if they blow this they are the Clippers of the 90s

Lol Simmons looked like he was going to throw up as they zoomed in

simmons rant was beautiful. "i wish any other team had won this."

Matt Armstrong
Posted: May 21, 2014 at 12:29:33 AM
if they blow this they are the Clippers of the 90s

I have faith

manziel to browns, cavs win lottery, JUST SAYING

that slow-mo reaction shot was the greatest moment of simmons' career

Of course he had to say something crepey about the owners daughters though

he built half of his popularity off of being a sexist creep

omg a sportswriter who uses porn analogies

hes just like me

Cavs probably just need to pick Wiggins.

they've got anthony bennett at that position tho

I couldn't stomach picking a guy with any injury question marks after the Bennett disaster.

feel like maybe they shd make a surprise pick like last year?

Best part of having pick 2 or 3 is you know whatever guy you think is #1 the cavs are not going to pick him

isn't wiggins a 3?

This is the first time I actually listened to pitbull's playoffs jam and it has a little bit of a hoedown vibe to it, I'm sold

THIS IS SO AMAZING

man I cannot wait for the cavs to draft embiid and sit through 4 injury riddled years of 9 points and 11 rebounds per game

man, Julius...

Christopher A. Vito ‏@ChrisVito 4s

Dr. J, on his grimace after unveiling of No. 10 pick: “I was like, ‘What the hell?’ Honest emotion. But they got it figured out."

lol just out of habit, I was looking for the Warriors in all this draft lottery talk.

lol

yeah dr j interacting w that celebrating cavs chucklehead was perfect

@highkin: 2017: “Former No. 1 overall pick Doug McDermott is drawing interest around the league as the deadline approaches, according to sources."

cavs guy is really highly regarded, was the top scout for the Suns when they made all those good picks (Amare, Barbosa etc.)

its ok gilbert will over rule him and pick plumlee zeller who is a player only in my imagination

k3vin k.
Posted: May 21, 2014 at 12:39:08 AM
isn't wiggins a 3?

idk hes v slim i cld see him starting at the 2 then maybe moving over when hes older

Wiggins seems like a clear 3 to me that everyone is projecting as a 2 out of wishful thinking

kinda the same deal with Paul George for a while

he's not a big as george tho is he

yeah but he's like 6-8 or something right

not quite

xp

Cavs chances in 2011: 2.8%
Cavs chances in 2013: 15.6%
Cavs chances in 2014: 1.7%

wiggins is a 3 imo but c'mon wing designations are mostly useless these days

from what I've gathered you think every positional designation is meaningless

it's ok to have giant stiff dudes at the 2 if you have a lot of ballhandlers on the floor but most teams like to have a 2 guard with handles of some kind

from what I've gathered you think every positional designation is meaningless
--Matt Armstrong

i have no idea what this means. wiggins is a 2/3 depending on the match up, that seems obvious to me.

we got into a long argument where you basically said there's no such thing as a tweener

there are some players who are tweeners, sure. i think it's an overused phrase though. certain teams can absorb certain "tweeners" depending on fit.

I may be remembering it wrong, I'm mellowing about such things in my old age

tweeners are like 5000% more acceptable in the NBA than they used to be

I will say that point guards are kind of their own thing and I really don't see Exum as a PG. Exum-Oladipo might work though.

Matt Armstrong
Posted: May 21, 2014 at 1:23:41 AM
Cavs chances in 2011: 2.8%
Cavs chances in 2013: 15.6%
Cavs chances in 2014: 1.7%

this is incredible but the fact that it happened to a team incapable of capitalizing on their luck makes it divine

new clips

i think point guards and centers (true centers like hibbert, lopez twins, dwight etc) are their own animals.

but in between those poles i think there's plenty of instances of 1 blurring into 2, 2 into 3, 3 into 4 etc that depends on fit, style of play, coach experimentation etc

tangent but how many players in the nba can credibly play 3 positions?

lebron, batum, pierce... there's gotta be a few more

BORIS

first nbadraft.net mock has cleveland taking embiid :)

harden could probably play 1-3 reasonably depending on matchups

feel like that swinging between the three and four is really the one that happens so much more than it used to small ball is cool

i'll allow boris

Post-Mark Jackson Iguodala?

yeah i feel that

durant would prob count if brooks wasn't so rigid with his line ups

harden can go 1-3 in theory, so he might be there

remember when Bill Simmons thought Durant would be a center

lol no

lol me either but i only read like nine columns he wrote about him that year at texas so i missed a few

who on earth told jalen rose that it's ok to wear a brooch and a pocket square on the same side of his suit, this angers me so much

those are deeply inappropriate for wearing to work

hold on i'm gonna re-post that to nba fashion -_-

This does not sound good

8
Marcus Smart
Sacramento Kings (28 - 54)
COLLEGE: Oklahoma State
HT: 6-3
WT: 227
POS: PG

The Kings are obsessed with analytics, and by just about every metric out there, Smart is one of the top three players in this draft. Smart fits a need on multiple levels for the Kings. Isaiah Thomas was good for the Kings this year, but ultimately they think he's a backup. Smart's size and basketball IQ are major upgrades at the position. But it's Smart's toughness, leadership, competitiveness and a desire to win at any cost that could transform the culture in Sacramento.

honestly that might be a decent fit for both parties

Isaiah is not gonna be their backup PG unless they want to pay 9 million a year for a backup PG.

I think Chad is probably just cooking up a justification for that pick because he has every top power forward going before there and that's probably what they need to most. They just take Vonleh if he's there I think.

that's interesting though, if they pick smart that means there's a cool FA PG on the market

oh i was thinking about isiah and smart in the backcourt together

i guess the viability of that pick depends on how much one believes in ben mclemore and i will admit to being a bit skeptical

wiggins embiid jabari .... all in the east....!

i think cle getting the #1 again makes the draft to depressing to attend in person :/

http://espn.go.com/nba/draft2014/story/_/id/10963370/2014-nba-draft-cleveland-cavaliers-joel-embiid-top-draft-board-no-1-pick-per-sources

lol, it's all going according to plan

Embiid can be oden to wiggins' durant

haha

Randle is my favorite player in this draft

some interesting proposals here http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/68391/gift-of-love-29-trades-for-29-teams

feel like the cavs should seriously consider dealing their pick for love, actually

yeah no brainer

deal a #1 for one season of love?

itd have to be an extend and trade

i think most deals assume he'd sign an extension, no?

lakers or celts should though

i still dont believe in love tbf

whether love wld agree to that who knows, certainly if i were him id be looking toward a saner organization

such as the one that is based in boston, massachusetts

idk, this seems stunningly dumb to me

76ers receive: Kevin Love and Kevin Martin
Wolves receive: Thaddeus Young, Jason Richardson, Nos. 3 and 10 picks in 2014

why would love agree to extend w/ cleveland? self-loathing?

spottie love is not a good defender but other than that hes like the best player in the world, kinda like a big steph curry when u think abt it

balls
Posted: May 21, 2014 at 3:56:48 PM
why would love agree to extend w/ cleveland? self-loathing?

money?

but yeah love needs to go to the celtics its his destiny as a wite

also he looks like a leprechaun

true xps idk tho just never bought into him completely.

he might not extend in cleveland but inking with kyrie and looking to sway bron might be attractive

brons not going back to cleveland cmon

hehe

probably v excited at the idea of playing for comic sans again

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-aUXvqVYGRYo/U3v07PZshoI/AAAAAAAAGzM/fqXUFyu2XXY/s1600/sim.gif

he might not extend in cleveland but inking with kyrie and looking to sway bron might be attractive

― le goon (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, May 21, 2014 12:02 PM (12 minutes ago)

hmmmmmmm

lol poor bill xp

So I was trying to think of who went #1 last year and I had to look it up.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-aUXvqVYGRYo/U3v07PZshoI/AAAAAAAAGzM/fqXUFyu2XXY/s1600/sim.gif

― Spottie, Wednesday, May 21, 2014 12:14 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark

lol is that him watching the lottery?

So I was trying to think of who went #1 last year and I had to look it up.

― Jeff, Wednesday, May 21, 2014 1:01 PM (21 minutes ago) Bookmark

come on, an actually historically bad pick! who could forget?

deal a #1 for one season of love?

There's a reality tv show in there somewhere.

but yeah love needs to go to the celtics its his destiny as a wite

Yeah, esp. since he'd be leaving the TWolves.

rondo + both celtics 1st rounders for love lets get this done

wait what are the twolves going to do with rondo?

yeah was thinking prob have to get a third team involved but didnt want to bother to figure out who

yeah idk they're probably stuck with rondo (who i would def trade at this point), have to hope that the twolves like sullinger and give them a bunch of picks

yeah jordan that was bill's reaction to cleveland getting the pick. supposedly said "that's murder" or something like that

Cohen again vowed that Cleveland would not be back at the lottery next season: “We will not be here."

god i love the cavs

http://cdn1.tauntr.com/sites/default/files/ComicJersey.jpg

I applaud simmons for his profanity free reaction shot. I cant even stop swearing in front of babies.

tangent but how many players in the nba can credibly play 3 positions?

lebron, batum, pierce... there's gotta be a few more

― le goon (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, May 20, 2014 10:03 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

i think tyreke evans was nominally a point for at least his first year in sacramento but they also had beno udrih his first two years so im not sure, also not sure he's actually a small forward now or if the pels were really just playing three guards

over the course of his career kg has drifted down from 3 to 4 to 5 but he could only sort of float between two at any given time

lebron was technically the point guard a lot his rookie year (lol paul silas) so he's really played four positions in his career

there were a bunch of trash heap guys sliding to the 4 who are normally 3s who a few years ago could play the 2 like danny granger in this year's playoffs but that's more of the effect of trying to whittle down to ~8 man rotations

oladipo seemed vaguely credible as a point guard this year even though it was obviously part of the tank job and he will likely move to the 2 once they decide to try again

there are so many 3/4s who can play one position up or down depending on lineup -- lebron, durant, iggy, gallo, etc etc

marion (old)

pip (old)

these teams are so stupid

Chad Ford (1:28 PM)

Yep. Kings are also trying to trade. Have a ton of young players. Really want to make the playoffs next year.

new owners

Cohen had taken the little placard with the Cavaliers logo from the drawing room as a souvenir, and he said the team has already framed the same placards from previous lottery wins. The team plans to display them on a wall in their practice facility. Sometimes the jokes really write themselves.

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/we-went-there-god-loves-cleveland-and-24-more-notes-from-inside-the-nba-draft-lottery/

Cohen again vowed that Cleveland would not be back at the lottery next season: “We will not be here.” I reminded him as gently as I could that he made the same promise in a chat with me at last year’s lottery. “I did say that,” he laughed. “I did. But I really mean it this year.”

lol

Naw seriously guys Bennett is ready to take us to the promised land seriously

i just keep imagining a groundhogs day thing where the cavs pick a bust every year and win the lottery again and this guy is like "i swear it. we're not coming back next time."

Somebody please explain to me why it's in the Cavs best interest to trade the #1 pick for one year of Kevin Love. There's no guarantee he re-signs the next year, and I could totally see him mailing it in. It would be the Luol Deng disaster all over again.

i dont think anyone think they shd trade for him unless he extends his contract

there are some crazy people who think lebron will bolt for cleveland to play with kyrie and love and many of these people are writers for espn et al

they just need something to talk about

I could see him doing it if they draft Embiid and he's a superstar right away I guess

i haven't watched that dude play at all but most people think embiid is a "project" guy, right?

that was the cw coming out of hs but then he played very good in college so maybe not

espn writers::cavs fans
owners only pretending to throw the ball::their dogs

Simmons is saying it will take the #1 pick AND Anthony Bennett AND next year's unprotected first-rounder to get Love, and Simmons thinks the Cavs should do it. You know what, I give up. I really don't understand basketball at all.

why would the wolves want anthony bennett

idk where simmons is getting that from, that's an insane overpay

lol yeah throwing bennett in there is kind of just insulting

simmons is an insane overpay

simmons is... making stuff up as usual

but i mean lets be honest here folks why not throw bennett in who cares

i haven't watched that dude play at all but most people think embiid is a "project" guy, right?

― k3vin k., Thursday, May 22, 2014 12:59 AM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

He was considered a project because he'd only been playing basketball 2 years but his improvement was absolutely shocking. If it wasn't for the back injury the debate over number 1 would be over I think.

I actually think he's a better prospect than Oden ever was, discounting the injury concerns with both.

yeah i like embiid alot, he seems like the only player in this draft who has any mvp potential, have to hear more abt how bad his back really is tho, seems v foggy rn prob not a good sign

idk where simmons is getting that from, that's an insane overpay

― call all destroyer, Thursday, May 22, 2014 10:09 PM (35 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

not so sure i mean next years draft pick wont be that good since the cavs are def not going back to the lottery lol

they even mean it this time

srsly guys srsly

does embiid play offense

looking at his stats i guess he did score a lot, and the cavs could use a defensive anchor since varejao is old/chronically hurt

yeah hes got nice touch around the hoop, not too much else at this point but shows signs of being a natural hoop getter rather than just some large robotic basketball person

like matt said its pretty insane how good he is considering hes been playing about as long as most ten year olds

the videos i've seen of embiid he seems like a total can't miss prospect (especially as he gets bigger b/c he's v v skinny still) but i got burned so hard by a recent #1 injury prone center picked ahead of a highly touted wing who became the mvp so i mean my bias is pretty much never draft the injury prone big guy.

wiggins is no durant tho, durant dominated the ncaa like no freshman ever has m/l where wiggins had a good if uneven season

ah i see you saw through my vague allusions and deduced out who i was talking about

lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cn-dtrmh0nM

Oden seemed like to me he would top out as the next Mutombo while Embiid is much more fluid and gifted offensively.

To me that's the reason the Oden pick was bad-- he wasn't going to be better than Durant even if everything worked out.

otm

http://i.imgur.com/jmEBtk4.png

lol at has already taken two 3s

I saw some dumbass thing on Realgm saying that he should focus on shooting 3s because that's "where the game is going"

eventually basketball is just going to be five guys standing outside the arc

all the offensive rebounds will be with guys sprinting in from 30 feet out

As someone who doesn't watch college and just watched 2 inutes of a draft exprses video Embiid looks like a baest

it might be true but I don't get the idea that the Jazz will be overwhelming desperate to get Jabari Parker because he's Mormon. They didn't get Jimmer, they never got Ainge or Bradley despite many opportunities to do so. It's a different owner now, but the same family and the state hasn't gotten more Mormon. Idgi.

this is a good piece http://grantland.com/the-triangle/ryen-russillos-nba-draft-confidential-real-scouts-on-wiggins-randle-embiid-and-parker/

He actually reminds me more of Gerald Green than any of these studs he’s compared to.

feel like this is might end up being true about wiggins

i still like wiggins a lot but he's mad confounding

As someone who doesn't watch college and just watched 2 inutes of a draft exprses video Embiid looks like a baest

― 龜, Thursday, May 22, 2014 11:40 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Same now ready to bleed for embiid

Ha there's no way that guy should be shooting threes though you just play him like a super-deandre/Ibaka hybrid and get 3-4 shooters around him

If the brow didn't exist I would bet on him leading the league in blocks v shortly

The brow is the future best big.

Man, Scout 1's mouth.

Parker is still the dude I would take although I am getting a little more convinced on Embiid.

after watching that draft express video matt posted i am now an embiid believer. simmons said he had the potential to be "the 7-foot serge ibaka" which...does not sound like what you want out of a number 1 pick, but then again simmons seems to have lost his mind over the last couple of weeks so i'll let that slide

yeah that's not quite a ringing endorsement

i think jabari's ceiling is kinda low, he seems like a rudy gay clone to me. i'm not a fan.

i watched jabari play once and he beasted so i like him

I'm a little skeptical of Embiid's inexperience/prodigy thing. I feel like his "surprisingly good instincts" may not hold up as well against pros. But hey that might just mean he takes a few seasons to get it together.

Also agree with the scout(s?) who said they don't really see killer instinct in Wiggins. Seems way too doofy and chill to me to become a great.

yeah he seems very barnes-ish in that sense

one weird thing about Wiggins is that they didn't really run many NBA plays for him, apparently. Also the really super freakish athletes like him tend to be rewarded by the NBA game.

yeah i think wiggins has a low floor in that he's athletic enough to really contribute. i mean i feel like at worst he's thabo sefalosha who can finish at the rim and hit the occasional three. obviously that's far from the ideal top 3 pick but you're not getting a complete bust.

I remember when seven or eight GMs thought this draft was worth tanking their team for a top 3 pick. Now it seems like everyone's hemming and hawing and scratching their heads.

those scouts who say he's gerald green with great defense are pretty funny. I'd love to take gerald green with great defense in the top 3!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qd3RVBZz6Rk

cavs 100% need to take this guy so he can walk on them in a few years

he can definitely do the dunking thing

Matt Armstrong
Posted: May 23, 2014 at 10:56:44 PM
one weird thing about Wiggins is that they didn't really run many NBA plays for him, apparently. Also the really super freakish athletes like him tend to be rewarded by the NBA game.

otm classic college underachiever type

parker is the safest bet imo v skilled player great size near guaranteed all star imo

im in bed with embiid

parker passes the eye test, not sure if hes number 1, but mil or phil shd be stoked for the chance to get him

How does Wiggins' skillset compare to Barnes, actually? Same height, same chill-seeming personality, same college PPG - I'm actually pretty unclear on how Barnes is regarded now? He's got that weird thing where he seems kinda bust-y but actually that's relative to High School rather than draft position.

do we think this is bullshit or valid?

http://53eig.ht/SwlEMU

It's interesting. The math generally seems to work and the criteria - only sign guys who have hit all nba benchmarks to max contracts - seems logical and workable, basically then you will only gets burned by an unforeseen injury guy like rose, who is still an appropriate gamble bc you couldn't have that future information.

The one hole I can find is possibly demanding a quantified semi-monetary return judged on the merits of a single player. What if Westbrook is not quite mathematically a good max contract but some percentage of his salary is essentially a "keeping Kevin durant" tax?

Also obv you are usually overpaying max guys after age 27-28 but usually they are on the same team for which they were a bargain those first four years

also I didn't catch if this is integrated into the calculations but If the cap keeps rising now max contracts even with the yearly raises become a smaller and smaller portion of a teams payroll (at least until the next CBA) which makes each max contract decision some correspondingly smaller percent important

Less important I mean

god i hate max contracts, they are such bullshit for parity

How does Wiggins' skillset compare to Barnes, actually? Same height, same chill-seeming personality, same college PPG - I'm actually pretty unclear on how Barnes is regarded now? He's got that weird thing where he seems kinda bust-y but actually that's relative to High School rather than draft position.

― Gravel Puzzleworth, Saturday, May 24, 2014 3:37 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Barnes is more skilled in terms of moves, but the ball doesn't go in. Wiggins is a better athlete (high praise!) and a much bigger difference maker on defense.

I think Wiggins will be a better shooter, his mechanics are so good.

hey now!

Chad Ford ‏@chadfordinsider 24m

Jabari Parker's measurements at workout on Friday: 6' 9" in shoes, 6' 11.75" wingspan, 8' 11.5" standing reach.

oh fuck

Chad Ford ‏@chadfordinsider 31m

Joel Embiid's measurements at the workout on Fri: 7' 1" in shoes, 7' 5.75" wingspan, 9' 5.5" standing reach.

that would tie Embiid with Deandre Jordan for the 3rd highest reach in the NBA

haha i was trying to figure out what was so remarkable about jabari's wingspan

I can't tell if they did any jump measurements, would love to see what embiid is at

Chad Ford ‏@chadfordinsider 2m

Andrew Wiggins measurements from today. 6' 8.75" in shoes, 7' 0" wingspan, 8" 11" standing reach.

a little taller than I expected

I wonder what my standing reach is? Where can I get measured?

find a friend with a crayon and a ladder!

why tf do they measure guys in shoes it makes no sense they r not going to wear those same shoes their whole careers

there's not that much difference between shoes though, it's usually an inch and a half. 2 inches is pushing it.

it's probably the same reason they don't use electronic times at the NFL combine: egos

I'd wear Hoka's if I was them.

They're probably not going to play in bare feet.

and yet it is the only objective baseline for how tall a human being is

If I were a draft prospect i would demand that I be measured on a mountain range where the gravity wasn't so strong and I could be taller

http://i.imgur.com/hjWSskl.png

that is bonkers

It looks like he only hit the ones on top?

imagine jumping 4 feet high

i want to jump 4 feet high so much

yes

Lol I did one of those jumping programs

didn't help at all

My friend bought the shoes and he was touching rim within a few weeks

my vert is like 4" max.. probably half that

best thing u cant do for yr vert is very heavy squats they say, like three reps to exhaustion at a good tempo

Yeah it's the quads, not the calves

My knees tho

My friends shoes basically looked like high heels

i will never try the squats plan because my legs and ass are already grotesquely huge and prob i wouldnt be able to fit inside pants anymore

here is a good article about that http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/12/sports/olympics/chasing-gold-and-jeans-that-fit.html

my older bro is 6'4" and would get clowned for not dunking in high school so he bought those strength training shoes and would jump rope in them, but he still could not dunk easily.

i think u need to jump on 3 boxes of different heights to make it work

I'm picturing something out of Super Mario?

u need to eat the mushroom

did strength shoes in high school, got me some sexy calves but was probably responsible for my ankle issues

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA 5h
Yahoo Sources: Kentucky forward Julius Randle will likely need foot surgery after NBA Draft, miss two months.

omg http://www.draftexpress.com/NBA-draft-pick-stats/1/PER/

Tim Duncan has played in 1254 games.

the 8th pick is cursed http://www.draftexpress.com/NBA-draft-pick-stats/8/PER/

Interesting only 4 of the last 25 years worth of #1 draft picks were guards and three of those are since 2008 (rose, Irving, wall) and they're almost all point guards if you shove Allen Iverson over a little bit

yeah ai was sold as a point coming out of college

Joel Embiid, considered the front-runner to be the No. 1 overall pick in the NBA draft, has suffered a right foot injury, his agent and his mentor both confirmed to ESPN.com on Thursday.

"He suffered a foot injury to his right foot sometime over the last few days,'' agent Arn Tellem told ESPN's Andy Katz by phone Thursday. "He's getting evaluations from various doctors and experts in the field. We'll know more Friday.''

NU-ODEN

he shd fall to 6th imho

@EyeOnBasketball: Joel Embiid's agent says he has stress fracture, will have foot surgery

http://t.co/q5GO8RXkU9

got to knock him out of the first spot what w cleveland in win now mode no

Wonder if that was what Cleveland found when they worked him out

Young people don't typically get stress fractures do they?

p common w big mens in their feet, randle already has a screw in his foot

def a red flag tho like they cld fix it or it cld be chronic

seems like they've gotten more skilled w the screws recently tho

cld see him dropping to 4th

gdamn it why didnt the celtics lose a couple more games

lol draftxpress already dropped him to 4th

Are there any draft precedents for Parker, i.e. dudes that seem unusually polished and pro-ready but yet are not seen as #1 in potential upside?

lol

http://i.imgur.com/AqEhGJu.png

lol, greatest draft ever --> all is lost in three easy steps.

def common w upperclassmen trying to think of a freshman that fits that mold xp

yeah cause I'm wondering if people have some reason to think he's just peaking early or something.

its that he's not that athletic and doesn't really have a natural defensive position

everyone seems to think hes the safest pick tho

yeah he's just the guy that untrained me would pick on the playground from watching him, and also I guess I like safe picks

龜
Posted: June 19, 2014 at 7:45:51 PM
Wonder if that was what Cleveland found when they worked him out

yup

Adrian Wojnarowski ✔ @WojYahooNBA
Follow
Cleveland doctors discovered right foot injury in exams and passed info onto Embiid reps, sources tell Yahoo. Fear is a right foot fracture.
12:54 PM - 19 Jun 2014

Parker cld easily go 1st now fwiw

Really want Embiid to fall because Cleveland already jittery from Anthony Bennett, then for Embiid to dominate because it would be lol cavs

if they take wiggins and it turns out he has no sense lol

Blake's injury was a stress fracture in his kneecap

how do u even get a stress fracture in yr kneecap theres like no stress in it

on it

btw this dude payton is the same age as embiid 20 an hes a junior started college at 17, went to a minor school, classic sleeper

drop to six drop to six drop to six

History of Joel Embiid's injury
Kevin Pelton [ARCHIVE]

ESPN Insider | June 19, 2014

Because they are so infrequent, injuries to the navicular bone aren't dreaded the same way as ACL and Achilles injuries, or microfracture knee surgery. But for a big man, there's no worse sentence than the one Joel Embiid received Thursday: a stress fracture to the navicular bone in his right foot, for which he'll undergo surgery immediately.

Recurring navicular injuries ended Yao Ming's career prematurely, and kept Bill Walton on the sidelines for much of his prime years. Now, teams considering drafting Embiid must weigh his potential against the possibility that he suffers a similar fate.

Cooper Neill/Getty Images
Joel Embiid will undergo surgery for a stress fracture in his right foot and will miss the NBA draft.
Past precedent
My research turned up four big men who have suffered navicular injuries in addition to Walton and Yao: Curtis Borchardt, Brendan Haywood, Zydrunas Ilgauskas and Kevin McHale. There have also been a handful of perimeter players with navicular fractures, including Michael Jordan, during his second season, and Philadelphia 76ers guard Andrew Toney, who missed nearly the entire 1985-86 campaign and was never the same again.

Despite Toney's example, navicular injuries have been more problematic for big men because of the additional weight and pressure they put on their feet. Discounting Hayward, who missed all of last season after undergoing surgery in October for a stress fracture of his navicular, the other five post players missed an average of 47.5 percent of their teams' scheduled games in seasons after the injury.

Taking each player case-by-case reveals the wide range of possible outcomes for Embiid.

Curtis Borchardt (played 83 of a possible 328 games)

Like Embiid, Borchardt first experienced problems with his navicular bone before entering the NBA. He missed portions of his freshman and sophomore seasons with stress fractures, undergoing surgery the second time and returning for a healthy junior season when he averaged 16.9 points and 11.4 rebounds per game. On the strength of that performance, the Utah Jazz traded up to draft Borchardt 18th overall in 2002.

With the Jazz, Borchardt suffered a recurrence that wiped out his entire rookie season and he missed much of his second season due to a fractured wrist before playing 67 games in his only full campaign, the 2004-05 season. Borchardt was subsequently traded to the Boston Celtics, and his NBA career was finished when the Celtics waived him during training camp, though he was able to play overseas through 2012.

Zydrunas Ilgauskas (played 756 of a possible 902 games)

Ilgauskas offers perhaps the most hopeful outcome for Embiid, even though his navicular injury -- suffered five games into the 1998-99 season -- limited him to 29 games over the next three seasons. Remarkably, after returning to the court in December 2001, Ilgauskas played at least 78 games each of the following five seasons, moving past his foot issues (which also kept him from playing during 1996-97, his rookie season) to become a two-time All-Star. He remained a contributor through his retirement in 2011 at age 36.

Kevin McHale (played 419 of a possible 492 games)

A broken navicular bone was the injury McHale famously played through during the 1987 playoffs, helping the Boston Celtics get to the NBA Finals before losing to the L.A. Lakers. McHale underwent surgery over the summer, which cost him the first month of the 1987-88 season. Thereafter, he played in 64 of 68 games, and missed just four total over the following two seasons. He made the All-Star team four times after the navicular injury before slowing down and retiring at 35.

Bill Walton (played 259 of a possible 738 games)

While playing through pain in the 1978 playoffs, Walton fractured his navicular bone in Game 2 of the Portland Trail Blazers' series with the Seattle SuperSonics -- the last he'd play for the Blazers. After sitting out the entire 1978-79 season, Walton signed with the San Diego Clippers, for whom he'd play just 169 games over six years, missing all of 1980-81 and 1981-82.

Following surgery to reshape his arch, Walton was eventually able to contribute to the 1986 champion Celtics and win the NBA Sixth Man Award. That would prove his last hurrah, as Walton played just 10 games during the following season, his last in the NBA, before being diagnosed with another navicular fracture -- one that, ironically, prompted McHale to play through the same injury.

Yao Ming (played 82 of a possible 246 games)

At 7-foot-6, Yao had already dealt with foot and knee trouble, including a fractured fifth metatarsal bone in his foot, when he was diagnosed with a stress fracture of his navicular bone in February 2008. The Houston Rockets hoped at the time that they'd caught the injury early enough to prevent it from becoming a problem, and Yao returned from surgery to play in the Beijing Olympics and 77 games in 2008-09, when they won their first playoff series since 1997.

During the conference semifinals against the Lakers, however, Yao reinjured the navicular bone. He underwent reconstructive surgery and was ruled out for the entire 2009-10 season before attempting to return the following season. Another stress fracture to his ankle suffered after five games led to Yao's retirement at age 30.

Embiid impact
When considering the impact of Embiid's navicular injury on his draft stock, the severity is hard to overstate. Not only could it potentially keep him off the floor all of next season, the chance of recurrence will always linger. There's a hope that, like Ilgauskas, he could eventually enjoy a long and productive career. But teams picking at the top of the draft must also be prepared for the possibility that Embiid misses multiple seasons or even has his career cut short.

Wow

Following surgery to reshape his arch,

it really really sucked to be bill walton for awhile

based on that post you could make the argument that embiid should drop out of the top 10 if not the lottery

yeah my take away from that is 'do not draft'

even if you get something like yao's career out of him he's still probably a lottery pick but if it's any worse than that (oden or something) that's a pretty huge bust

tbf there is a pretty huge gap between yao's career and oden's

yeah you basically got ~6.5 seasons out of yao in eight years, you'll still come out in the net positive with embiid if he's that good and gives you that many games

this sucks. chad ford still has him going 4th to the magic, who also have pick #12.

ilgauskas always seemed so strange in that he was about ready to wash out of the league due to foot injuries and then his foot was fixed and basically wasn't a problem for the rest of his career.

he also never got more than an inch off the ground iirc

yeah not necessarily a useful precedent for embiid.

ilgauskas always seemed so strange in that he was about ready to wash out of the league due to foot injuries and then his foot was fixed and basically wasn't a problem for the rest of his career.

― circles, Friday, June 20, 2014 3:27 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Grant Hill is the same deal (same surgeon IIRC). Ilgauskas lost his athleticism in a big way though.

I'm super bummed about this; Embiid is such a cool player.

this sucks. chad ford still has him going 4th to the magic, who also have pick #12.

― circles, Friday, June 20, 2014 3:22 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Chad Ford thinks Embiid makes sense as a complement to Vucevic, which is just idiotic. Why wouldn't they pick one of the natural power forwards who hasn't broken bones twice in 6 months?

gdamn it why didnt the celtics lose a couple more games

― lag∞n, Thursday, June 19, 2014 7:52 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

they'll get him if they want him.

really u think

rusillo was on twitter this morning floating the idea that philly could trade MCW

Russillo @ryenarussillo · 1h
More Embiid fallout. Lakers could move Nash and #7 to Philly for MCW and T Young. 76ers would take Exum at #3.

Russillo @ryenarussillo · 1h
Just because MCW won ROY, don't make the mistake of thinking he's really good. He might be, but best yr of an awful class/awful team.

he had one of the all time bad shooting seasons i am not high on MCW

Could Embiid suffer Yao's fate?
Mark Adickes

ESPN Insider | June 19, 2014

The news that Joel Embiid was diagnosed with a stress fracture in his right foot is troubling, but it isn't a career death sentence for the Kansas center.

Indeed, the history of big men with foot problems is somewhat foreboding, as Kevin Pelton indicates, but I believe Embiid still will be able to a fruitful NBA career after undergoing surgery on Friday.

Having served as one of the Houston Rockets' team physicians from 2006-10, I am very familiar with this injury. During that time, Rockets All-Star center Yao Ming was plagued by fractures of his left foot's navicular bone. So I saw firsthand the problems that can arise from this injury. Embiid's news certainly conjures visions of a hobbled big man such as Yao, but Yao's fate isn't necessarily what awaits Embiid.

Yao's troubles
In December of the 2005-06 season, Yao developed osteomyelitis (a bone infection) of his left big toe. He returned after missing 21 games and played well but later developed his first navicular stress fracture in April 2006. The navicular bone resides on the inside of the foot, above the big toe at the level of the arch of the foot.

This first navicular fracture was treated by placing him on crutches and in a cast, and he required six months to heal. Yao returned without incident and played well enough during the 2006-07 season to be named second-team All-NBA. But the next season, Yao would miss the remainder of 2007-08 with another stress fracture of his navicular bone. This second injury to the navicular bone was treated by placing screws into the bone to facilitate healing and was performed by world renowned foot and ankle specialist Dr. Thomas Clanton.

Yao healed well and quickly and was able to compete in the Olympics for the Chinese national team in August 2008. The 2008-09 season saw Yao play the entire season without incident, but he reinjured his left foot's navicular bone in the second-round playoff series against the Los Angeles Lakers. Yao had a second surgery and missed the entire 2009-10 season. Upon his return, he developed a left-ankle stress fracture, which eventually led to his retirement.

So what can be expected for Embiid and his NBA career? Although there are similarities between Yao and Embiid, there are also a number of key differences.

First, Embiid is 6 inches shorter and about 70 pounds lighter than Yao, placing markedly reduced forces on his feet. He is also six years younger than Yao was when his foot-injury odyssey began.

Another key difference is mileage. Yao had played eight pro seasons prior to his injuries, five in China and three in the NBA. Yao also played extensively for the Chinese national team. Embiid does not have near the wear and tear on his body and, at 20 years old, should be able to heal this fracture uneventfully.

Finally, Yao had extremely high arches in his feet, which, when placed under stress, compressed his navicular bone like a nutcracker. While I have neither examined nor seen the X-rays of Embiid, it is highly unlikely that he has similar anatomy as Yao.

A number of studies have shown successful returns to sport after a navicular fracture. The average return is four months whether surgery is performed or the bone is allowed to heal in a cast with the athlete placed on crutches. Given Yao's troubles, it does not surprise me that Embiid's team has decided to choose surgery in an effort to reassure NBA executives that he will be ready to play by the start of the 2014-15 season.

Although it is a worrisome injury to be sure, given Embiid's age, body type and lack of mileage, I fully expect him to heal well and have a solid NBA career.

Do the Sixers really need an expiring contract, they are already below the league minimum aren't they? Or would this be to put them above as they tank again

well they'd have to take some salary back in order to trade thaddeus and i'm sure they'd rather have an expiring than not

@BillSimmons: Also hearing that Arn Tellem wanted Embiid to go first... but if that can't happen, he's going to push hard to steer him to Boston or LA.

kinda wild to me that in the age of durant and lillard's massive shoe deal and cleveland-era lebron before them that people in/around the NBA still operate under the idea that you need to be in a big market to be hugely marketable

im sure there are still benefits to being in a big market tho im not sure boston qualifies maybe he just likes those organizations more

i mean philly is bigger than boston

it's good if you're swaggy p but that's one in a million

LA is one thing because of entertainment media & paparazzi, but there's little difference between philly and boston and miami and cleveland and portland and memphis in terms of marketability anymore imo

ya ny and la are prob the exceptions

do ppl still want to go to NY? seems like a trap.

yeah i'm not sure how true that is... the nets maybe? or at least in theory if they weren't capped out to infinity

i don't think any young players are itching to go to the knicks

In terms of hoops, the Knicks look like a train wreck atm, Phil Jackson notwithstanding, but the draw of New York's big city glamor and high media profile is strong enough that plenty of players would still go there and think themselves damn lucky compared to going to at least half the franchises in the league.

yeah for all the 'man if you're a great player on the knicks the whole world is yr oyster' cw it wasn't really demonstrably true for patrick ewing or bernard king. not saying it doesn't matter, if tim duncan has the same career + rings in ny you are hearing different and more conversations about him, reggie miller became reggie miller cuz of what he did against the knicks, moving to la and miami helped shaq and lebron that isn't entirely just cuz they won rings but where they won them. just that the knicks might be closer to notre dame than the yankees in terms of the potential position they hold in the culture.

the knicks organization being a train wreck isnt a argument against the media power of the city of new york folks

and ya if the spurs had happened in ny duncan/parker/manu wld be globally iconographic

also tho both of those fanbases are very strong too

worth noting too lebron isnt as famous as he is good at basketball, hes def underachieved in global icon hood for whatever reason, also he gets tons negative press/haters

one aspect thats beyond his control imo is his game isnt as charismatic as you'd expect from the best player since jordan who plays on the perimeter

hmm lebron is pretty megafamous now actually isn't he? he's not as POPULAR as jordan was, thanks mostly to the decision, but he's the most marketable player in the league with the most marketable athletes. it is sort of funny how he's become more of a global icon as his game has gotten less exciting, tho that's probably just a coincidence

feel like he hasn't even achieved peak kobe levels of fame, jordan was in like a whole nother dimension

lol the knicks organization is a terrible place to be, the fans turn on you at the first airball

I honestly think Lebron v. Jordan has a lot to do with how they're marketed. Lebron dresses up like old people and makes jokes. It's easy to not take him seriously as a person because he's a fun-loving guy. It makes it seem like he has another gear that he isn't using, because otherwise why would he be having so much fun?

Jordan never acted the clown in his commercials. He left that shit to Mars Blackmon or Larry Johnson. He is a serious, sour dude who rolls his eyes a lot.

It's easy to not take him seriously as a person because he's a fun-loving guy.

Shaq was never globally iconic?

People disregard him in exactly the same way! He's a physically gifted force of nature ... imagine if he ever tried! etc

But also he has a funnier voice than Lebron so that helps with the marketing.

Kobe has more of the attributes of Jordan in that respect ... his ads are mostly about how great he is.

yeah the only time jordan was funny himself in ads was w/ bird playing horse and there it was 'isn't it funny how much better than everybody else we are at this?'

i thought lebron haters were kind of a thing of the past, like we all enjoyed the mavs beating the heat and him choking but dude is clearly a likeable guy and the best player since jordan, but even before the finals i'd hear ppl calling in w/ the most bizarre complaints and then the cramp game happened and the level of bullshit was unbelievable. the past week i've heard 'this just goes to show you can't win w/ this approach in the nba' and even 'does lebron have what it takes' idiocy, like they finally got a small window where their old bullshit arguments weren't clearly at that very moment being proven wrong ergo they were right all along. shades of fucking iraq. dude's far more popular than kobe ever was, even before denver ppl didn't really embrace kobe and it feels like it wasn't til he got the last two rings that he really got his due from sportswriters (and then it helped that he was a useful tool at the moment to beat up lebron w/). he's had a higher profile but half of that is lakers/five rings and half of that is a ton of drama which lebron hasn't really had. lebron has the decision and a rumour about his mom, i'm not sure either of those would make kobe's top ten.

From my corner of the globe (England) it's MJ >>>>>>Kobels >>>>>>>>>>>>> Shaq >>>>Bron

But it's prob different for a younger demographic.

Nobody I know would know who any of the Spurs are. Admittedly I don't know that many people.

basically uk as almost entirely backwards:
MJ>bron>>kobels=shaq
imo

saw a girl yesterday in Paris in a Tony Parker Spurs jersey and multicolored pajama pants. global fashion iconography of sorts

I think the reason we hear so much about bron is just because he has come to power in the twitter/social media era. Turn on epsn.. twitter is a huge part of reporting and discussing sports now. So many regular people's opinions getting expressed on national television, it's an onslaught of hate and praise that seems like no one else had. But if jordan had been in his peak with social media, I don't think it would be much different.

And a lot of people still hate jordan. Which I think is ridiculous but whatever

i was talking about fame not game in those rankings if it wasn't clear

oh ok got it

btw

Nobody I know would know who any of the Spurs are. Admittedly I don't know that many people.

― pandemic, Friday, June 20, 2014 2:14 PM (26 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

tell them they are tottenham BC and that tim duncan is basically the best player in history

I still hate Jordan.

As likable as he is as a player Jordan seems that unlikable as a humab

Human

cant really compare anyone to jordan as far as fame, like for all you youngsters out there people who didn't watch sports people who hated sports wld still watch him he was just perfect he stood out on the court to the most untrained eye, and likewise off the court just a magically charismatic person

def sort if a sociopath tho

I think probably the force that drove Jordan to focus 100% on playing out of his mind at every second is closely related to the force that makes him an asshole.

Like you just get the sense from him that every single bucket and every single win was so important to him, to an almost greedy or psychotic degree, and guys like that aren't nice guys.

thats how the story is told, doesnt really hold up under scrutiny imo

i get the impression he doesn't kid himself about that tho. I doubt he considers himself nice.

Is niceness even an admirable or desirable thing to be to Jordan tho.

Bron needs a great fuck-you highlight, what's his Jordan over Russell moment?

Mid-dunk staredown of MJ?

Don't want to derail this thread any further buut yeah you don't become goat by being a 'nice dude'. Remember his bonkers hall of fame speech? Sometimes real passion comes in the form of dickish-ness.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLzBMGXfK4c

bron is nice magic is nice timmy is nice yall been reading too much ayn rand

kd is nice

Hey nobody said nice dudes can't be great players, I just said that in MJ's case I think there is a connection between being an asshole and scoring monomania

theres only 1 goat tho

Some guys I think can compartmentalize on-the-court competitiveness.

you have to be competitive to be good at basketball but within that theres all sorts of diff personalities and approaches

I have a friend who swears up and down that MJ killed his dad. Now THAT would be a dick move

bill russell wasn't nice, kareem wasn't nice, bird wasn't nice

and fwiw jordans dominant on court quality wasn't doggedness but rather gracefulness, he was magical, the nba is full of psychotically motivated people its not really a differentiator despite what sycophantic sports media says

http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/multimedia/photo_gallery/1106/best-nicknames/images/bad-boys.jpg

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m285/ryguy797/Random%20Pics/borat-very-nice.jpg

https://img.4plebs.org/boards/x/image/1383/80/1383800977339.jpg

good memes good stuff

Isaiah Thomas just kinda zoning out to the backboard there

From my corner of the globe (England) it's MJ >>>>>>Kobels >>>>>>>>>>>>> Shaq >>>>Bron

Also lolEnglish and think Shaq is maybe equal or ahead of Kobe? That said I saw a dude in a Kobe shirt yesterday, which I've never seen for Shaq. I think Kobe acts as a kind of "I have heard of basketball" signifier, while Shaq is more famous with ppl who basically haven't?

Definitely see 5 items of bull paraphernalia for each logo of any other team combined.

LBJ seems pretty big in China imo, not sure where he ranks against Kobe who is also pretty big in China imo

curious how aware china is of pre-00's / pre-Yao bball?

Very aware at least as far back as the Jordan era, Qiaodan chose to knockoff the Jordan brand for a reason imo

Idk, I remember seeing these shaq logos everywherrrree as a kid
http://www.famous-logos.com/brands/sports/sports-logo-SHAQ-Dunkman-0013-4046-brand.gif

Back on topic, psyched if this is happening

http://www.csnchicago.com/bulls/melo-plan-how-bulls-will-sign-carmelo-anthony

lebron will be the best when he can jam it over one Gregory Donovan Ostertag

embiid out 4-6 months, lol

ban big men

Man that list if navicular problem big men mostly tells me that a) it's really awful and embiid is probably toast and b) Kevin mchale was one tough mf

man if okafor and alexander go 1-2 next year that will be two years in a row you have duke-kansas going 1-2, plus back to back chicago hs players at #1 (assuming cleveland takes parker and milwaukee takes wiggins)

parker @ number one... ugh

so the lakers are like 100% to gamble on embiid at #7 right

the lakers have a lot of motivation to tank, since their pick next year is only top 5 protected

where is it gonna go if its 6 or below?

phoenix

steve nash trade wasn't so great

hahahaaaaaaaaaaaaa motherfuckin lakers yall

hopes:
lakers lose their draft pick, miss the playoffs, kobe's legs falls off

i hope jimmy buss becomes a player/coach

idk i could see buss jr getting pretty hyped over getting a number one pick at #7 and looking at the team's history at center and thinking ~lakers magic~ will keep him healthy for 15 championships

picking Embiid at 7 is fine, they don't really need to tank to justify it. But it probably helps.

lakers prob want to take someone who will help now tho considering they just gave kobels one billion dollars

z-time champion (agent hibachi)
Posted: June 21, 2014 at 12:31:09 AM
Man that list if navicular problem big men mostly tells me that a) it's really awful and embiid is probably toast and b) Kevin mchale was one tough mf

idk feel like its not that informative cause most of the guys in that list are so old that medical technology has advanced since then and the two recent ones are both super giants at 7-4 and 7-6 one of whom overcame the injury

anyway i hope the celtics take embiid

can def see not wanting to risk a top pick on him but six seems fine

@celtics: Austin Ainge on teams trying to acquire info on Joel Embiid's injury/surgery: "I think we all want to know exactly what it is."

lol

feel like he'll go 4th tho maybe 5th parker wiggins exum and maybe vonleh seem like they cld go in front of him after that not so sure teams cld justify it

chad ford

How far will Embiid slide?
We know that Embiid's injury is serious. Breaking the navicular bone in your foot is a major injury, as our own Kevin Pelton pointed out yesterday.

I've had teams tell me he could be out anywhere from four months to a year. No one will really know for sure until they receive updated medicals after his surgery Friday. Not every break is the same; some are harder to fix than others. Once we have a better timetable on his injury, we'll have a better feel for his draft stock.

But as of Thursday night, here's what we know: The chances that he goes No. 1 or No. 2 are slim to none. There are two other good options on the board in Wiggins and Parker, and neither of them has had a stress fracture in their back and foot.

But after that? All bets are off.

The Sixers took a gamble on Nerlens Noel last year knowing he likely would miss the entire season. Noel is now healthy and ready to play, and many feel he was the best pick in his draft class. The Sixers' timeline can allow them to be patient. Noel and the No. 10 pick could be their rookies this season. However, Embiid isn't a perfect fit next to Noel, and the Sixers have also coveted Exum. So I think the odds that the Sixers take Embiid at No. 3 are less than 20 percent.

The Magic have wanted a rim protector and could see an opportunity here. They too have another lottery pick and some flexibility to be patient. Nikola Vucevic has been more than solid the past two years, but he doesn't provide the Magic with the shot-blocking they desperately need. If Embiid makes a full recovery, he's a steal at No. 4. The problem for the Magic is that they have other needs, too. They need a point guard, and Marcus Smart will be there. They also need a stretch 4, and Vonleh is likely to be on the board. Can they pass on both of them for Embiid? I put the odds of them doing so at 50 percent.

The Jazz are intrigued, as well, but I doubt they'd pull the trigger on Embiid. They went into the tank this season with the idea that they'd bounce back in 2014-15. With Embiid, it would be another season at the bottom of the standings in the West. I don't think ownership signed up for that.

That leaves the Celtics. From everything I can gather, GM Danny Ainge, barring unforeseen complications in Embiid's surgery, wouldn't let Embiid slide past here. If Ainge can't land Kevin Love, I think you'll see the Celtics go into full rebuilding mode this summer, and taking Embiid, the guy who could end up being the best player in the draft, would have to be very tempting.

btw i support melo to bulls i wonder if hed be willing to give them that discount

Da Bulls had better crank up the flattery to shameless heights if they want Melo to take a $3 or $4 million haircut.

idk feel like its not that informative cause most of the guys in that list are so old that medical technology has advanced since then and the two recent ones are both super giants at 7-4 and 7-6 one of whom overcame the injury

― lag∞n, Saturday, June 21, 2014 11:37 AM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Oh totally it's a super limited data set and we now have ever more dudes coming back from injuries that used to be career threatening (Blake, Russell) I'm just not sure I'd have the big cojones to roll the dice on a big man with foot AND back injuries when the draft is almost by definition a wellspring of young healthy athletes ready to hoop

I'm def for that gamble at #6 or so but also given the idiots drafting first there's almost bound to be someone falling well past the first few picks who ends up being one of the best players in the draft, happens regularly anyway

Melo going to the bulls is the only sensible thing he can do if he wants to appear in the playoffs again before he is a 38 year old roleplayer, in his case he really might make up the difference in money from enhanced nike opportunities playoff bonuses etc

I think Melo believes he could turn most teams into playoff teams just by showing up.

well he's been in the playoffs every year of his career except this one so he basically can

This is what Chicago should sing sweetly to Melo, if they want to land him:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FU5MwVR58Eo&feature=kp

z-time champion (agent hibachi)
Posted: June 21, 2014 at 7:04:13 PM

Oh totally it's a super limited data set and we now have ever more dudes coming back from injuries that used to be career threatening (Blake, Russell) I'm just not sure I'd have the big cojones to roll the dice on a big man with foot AND back injuries when the draft is almost by definition a wellspring of young healthy athletes ready to hoop

I'm def for that gamble at #6 or so but also given the idiots drafting first there's almost bound to be someone falling well past the first few picks who ends up being one of the best players in the draft, happens regularly anyway

ya agree, feel like payton and saric are the most likely sleepers this year

@basketballtalk: Report: Sixers interested in drafting Joel Embiid if he falls to them at No. 3 http://t.co/xgSll4xW0r

:(

no way, thats a decoy to try and generate trade interest

embiid and noel not making much sense, but it could be they're planning to alternate them at center every other year based on advanced injury prediction formulas

on the simmons/jalen podcast simmons floated the idea that the cavs should feign interest in wiggins to goad the sixers into trading up and that basically seems realistic and sensible for all parties, depending on the price

simmons and jalen should only do those podcasts and both get off espn

yeah they're usually pretty good

hehe

Chad FordVerified account
‏@chadfordinsider
Randle skipped a potential 2nd workout w/ Celtics today for this -> MT @J30_RANDLE: Meeting with @GQMagazine today to discuss style

promise from the lakers ?

embiid and noel not making much sense, but it could be they're planning to alternate them at center every other year based on advanced injury prediction formulas

― Clay, Monday, June 23, 2014 5:43 AM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Noel is a very skinny dude for a full time center though, it's not a horrible fit. A much better fit imo than the Vucevic-Embiid combo that people have talked about.

yeah i actually don't think there's a huge problem with noel-embiid

noel doesn't shoot though does he?

embiid could prob play away from the basket a bit on offense

they'd def have to work kinks out on offense and find guys at SG and SF who can really shoot but those would be two crazy athletic bigs, it would be pretty hard to score once they figured out man-to-man defense

hehe

Chad FordVerified account
‏@chadfordinsider
Randle skipped a potential 2nd workout w/ Celtics today for this -> MT @J30_RANDLE: Meeting with @GQMagazine today to discuss style

― le goon (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, June 24, 2014 12:41 PM (57 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

haha this is hilarious. NBA fashion thread imo

Bill SimmonsVerified account
‏@BillSimmons
According to @chadfordinsider - the Cavs got offered 4, 12 + Afflalo for 1 and didn't immediately say "Yes please?" That happened????

...

uh

@chadfordinsider: Hearing Hornets at 24 most likely destination for Mitch McGary to land. Source says they are the culprit of his draft workout shutdown

cld be a major steal

haha him and mcbob on the same team would be funny

haha and they have one of the zellers too