rolling "vince young player of the week" thread

http://weblogs.newsday.com/sports/football/bob_blog/vinceyoung.jpg

post here when a player acts butthurt in a vince young refusing to take the field kind of way.

week 1: jets kicker who kept pretending he was hurt until suddenly he was able to kick when it was obvious that mangina was screaming "you are so fired" at him
week 2: ??? i guess vince young lol
week 3: ben roethlisberger

now you guys go!

wait did roffles refuse to take the field? waht is happening to him?

he got a "hand injury" at the near-end of last night's game. he initially just went to the locker room but then came back out to the field to make a big show of how he had an owie pinky and let byron leftwich take the last 86 sacks for him.

it was pretty O_o actually tbh

at least he didn't get into another fight with andrea kramer this week!

omg i missed the andrea kramer fight! poor Ben. he got killed so many times yesterday.

also, i feel like the vince young situation has touched on something unspeakable but painful in the nfl, like that fatsis article ade posted says. deion sanders and TD have been extra-scornful whenever young comes up on NFLN, like he's letting their side down by deflating the hyper-masculine stoic mythology of the nfl. (i love deion, but i'm just saying.)

i do feel like vince young's mom should get ahold of herself.

oh yeah, i mean basically i feel really bad for vince young but otoh the nfl is so emo this year, everyone calm down and stop having your periods. but yeah, i agree with you. it's like the 300 times that T.O. loses his shit and cries and has pill-incidents or whatever, i mean it's kind of hilarious but there's a lot of pressure on these guys and sometimes they snap!

yeah, i'm of two minds about it. i sort of feel like a player like TD is traumatized (he played through a migraine in the super bowl, right?) and i don't blame him for feeling like other people should keep their mouths shut about how they feel, because he did, or whatever. but the culture as a whole seems worth critiquing.

but i totally vibe on the crazy machismo of the nfl, and i called jack del rio a puss in my last blog post. :(

the people i don't get are like brett favre--he is the emo-est motherfucker around. he always sounds like he's about to cry in press conferences. how come deion + td don't make fun of him?

i guess because he's better than young. whatever!

BECAUSE HE'S BRETT FAVRE AND UNTOUCHABLE CLEARLY DUH!!!

(seriously, i mean, i think there is a race issue there too)

uh no brett favre is always having fun, and is never sad about anything

if he was never sad why he gotta take pain killers, to numb his inside pain u_u

brett favre has a tender heart which does not mean he is a WHINING PUSSY like a vince young

i do feel like vince young's mom should get ahold of herself.

This is OTM. He's an industry, and industries don't get to be a little bitch. Except for finance.

brett favre has a tender heart which does not mean he is a WHINING PUSSY like a vince young

― update prefs (ice crӕm), Monday, September 22, 2008 1:31 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

ah, this has the ring of truth. thank you, ice craem!

Apparently, VY tried to commit suicide after the above incident. He claimed that that wasn't the case but his therapist claimed he mentioned it and called the police.

Poor Vince.

also brett is double bagged which is pretty much like total invulnerability to everything except having fun

remember that raiders center who lost his shit right before the super bowl?

I do now!

like he actually had some mental breakdown and bill callahan was basically like "this dude is a pussy, fuck him" and the nat'l media kind of ran with that angle and i think only a few days later did the whole mental issue come out. bill callahan is kind of the worst coach in the nfl of the past few seasons, maybe. lots of competition though.

Unfortunately for Linehan, the alarm bell was sounded last week by owner Chip Rosenbloom when he told the Post-Dispatch that changes would be made if things didn't get better.

They didn't get better Sunday in Seattle. The hecklers knew that as they showered the Rams with insults at the end of the game. Linehan knows that. And so does his wife, Kristen, who was in tears as she was escorted to the team bus.

"She feels like we do," tight end Randy McMichael said inside a glum Rams locker room. "I'm trying hard not to cry. That's all I can say right there. I'm trying hard to hold back these tears. But they're more tears of frustration than pain."

As the Rams walked into the visitors' tunnel late Sunday afternoon, 37-13 losers to the Seahawks, there was no escaping the wrath and derision of the Seattle fans.

"Whole Team Quit on Coach Scottie" read one sign.

"U Ladies Are the Worst" read another.

And then, verbally, came perhaps the worst shot of all from one of the Qwest Field faithful: "You're the worst team in Missouri!"

^lol

i really truly do not understand the "fans" who go out of their way to heckle and boo their own teams. like, i just do not get that mentality. stay home. don't support them with your money. debate their worth on the internets! but to go to the games or to go to public events just to heckle and abuse the players (and their families!) is at best, weird. at worst, i kind of think it makes a person really fucking sick.

xpost ok the worst team in missouri wau!

i do feel like vince young's mom should get ahold of herself.

This is OTM. He's an industry, and industries don't get to be a little bitch. Except for finance.

― rogermexico., Monday, September 22, 2008 6:31 PM (26 minutes ago)

-see and the taxpayers are kissign finance's owies and making them all better. maybe mrs. vince young ought to take it easy and buy a can of bactine?

Booing is awesome. Did you see the Philly fans boo that girl who sang the national anthem? If they didn't boo, how would she know that she sucks at singing?

i really truly do not understand the "fans" who go out of their way to heckle and boo their own teams. like, i just do not get that mentality. stay home. don't support them with your money. debate their worth on the internets! but to go to the games or to go to public events just to heckle and abuse the players (and their families!) is at best, weird. at worst, i kind of think it makes a person really fucking sick.

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Monday, September 22, 2008 2:54 PM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

and youre a fan of a new york team o_O

i'm not really sure what the fuck that has to do with my personal opinions of assholes but yes, yes i am.

also what does it accomplish?! what does booing a dude who dropped a ball tell him? "i am mad that you dropped this football"? if i was vince young, after the first TD that i scored at home after coming back i would just stand in the end zone with my middle fingers up at the crowd for like 10 minutes.

the worst are people who boo college teams+

i have never, ever booed my own team or heckled my own team; if i felt that way about the players on my team i'd stay home. doing otherwise makes you kind of a disgusting human being! they're just playing a game, it ain't like they are running for president or some shit.

xpost exactly, i mean what the hell? how dare you fuck up, ever! i will boo you loudly and robustly from the bottom of my lazy beer gut.

booing is the thing a new york sports fan does best

the other thing is that when it goes beyond booing to entitled shitheads actually harrassing these players it's like O_O

thefan.jpg

xpost you're thinking of philly, but nice try i guess?

we don't have much to boo about what with our team winning the super bowl and being 3-0 and all that.

sorry to bring baseball on here, but that's kind of why if a-rod wasn't an insecure diva queen i would imagine he would have signed with another team instead of returning to the place where his teammates didn't back him up (in some cases because they were glad to have someone distract from their own failings, cf giambi) and the fans were hypocritical w/r/t his actual performance. dude should have left and taken out a full page ad of him flipping off yankee stadium.

dude yankees fans booed mariano rivera MARIANO RIVERA

and ive def never heard more loathing directed at the home team as at a knicks game

i think sports players take sports seriously enough that booing is ok on a moral level, it's just that it's not a constructive form of criticism. since the fan can't really provide any constructive form of criticism everyone should just lay off and let the drill sgt. coaches take care of things.

booing is awzom and jordan and ally should stop being such a bunch of vice youngs now

like when the phillies were booing some hapless fourth starter the other day like, what does booing do? i don't think this young dude is going to be like "i gotta pitch better to appease these fans so they stop their booing! let's get em!!!". it'd be more like "ugh i don't ever want to pitch at home anymore" and that affects on-field performance etc. it's v counter-productive

never boo your own team, ice cram, lest karma comes back and bites them in the oh wait

my point is: if you care enough about your team to boo then you should realize that it doesn't do anything to make the team better

helmet catch was totally not my fault

go play golf suckas

also dude, ny fans dont boo they come up with hialrious insults to yell from the bleachers

WHAT ABOUT PPL WHO CHEER INJURIES!!!!

xpost the hilarious bleacher insult thing is true. the problem with this whole discussion vis a vis ny is that most of these things are not actually directed at players at all but instead it is just fans brawling each other. this is my experience, everyone yelling horrible, hideous insults at total strangers for wearing some other team's t-shirt and paying pretty minimal attention to the field.

i dunno i mean its not that i dont feel the anti-boo crowd i just sort of think that if u cant take it, dont get on the field--the problem with dudes like vince young is that theyve got so much raw talent along with psychological instability and have been pressured their whole lives to play pro ball that theres no good outcome from this--thats why i was so happy when ricky was gonna quit cause it was like, dude, finally, someone realizes that no matter how good he is hell be happier not playing football

that probably didnt make any sense so let me just make it clear: i fully support giving up on a lucrative nfl career in favor of smoking pot and hanging out with your high school buddies

also dude, ny fans dont boo they come up with hialrious insults to yell from the bleachers

― Mohammed Butt (max), Monday, September 22, 2008 3:26 PM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

they do both :)

i dunno i mean its not that i dont feel the anti-boo crowd i just sort of think that if u cant take it, dont get on the field

yeah i can see this too. i think i'm mainly more railing against over-entitled fans.

seriously tho a guy like vince young should not be forced to keep playing football.

im going to start a nfl adoption agency where i find good players who dont have the emotional fortitude to take the criticism and buy their contracts and take them to big farms where they can play touch football all day with each other

u r a saint

if i was vince young, after the first TD that i scored at home after coming back i would just stand in the end zone with my middle fingers up at the crowd for like 10 minutes.

― ilx: a miracle i helped create (J0rdan S.), Monday, September 22, 2008 7:06 PM (33 minutes ago) Bookmark

if there's a god this will happen

accepting donations now

those who boo because their team isnt playing as well as theyd like, boring; those who boo and yell hilarious insults as a good natured commentary on the futility of hope; delightful!

NFC East boos their own teams the hardest; NFC East perennially one of the toughest divisions in the league - substantive correlation?

i give up

boooo

boys u r all so weird

i don't really remember seeing redskins fans booing their own team

speaking of the division though, yeah, last two weeks i'm thinking it could be a real good season then i remember we have 2X dallas, 2X philly, and another giants game..

never boo your own team, ice cram, lest karma comes back and bites them in the oh wait

― omar little, Monday, September 22, 2008 2:14 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

lol

bears fans usually just boo quarterbacks and washout first rounders, which basically means they've booed all their quarterbacks and first rounders for about twenty years now

yeah i mean i really wish ppl who don't know what they're talkin about would stop smearing the entire nfc east because philly fans are jerks. xpost to dar1a

i think bears fans should get a special dispensation re: quarterbacks bc really wtf?

you wouldnt boo them if they were actually bears

i might become a bears fan if they were actually bears

wait the bears have a qb?

On topic, my vote goes to Charles Tillman.

if all teams were their mascots who would win

lol a team full of clones of Buffalo Bill. we would not win.

Giants v. Bears would look intrsting

the dolphins would lose worse

btw the raiders loss to the bills was all the more lol for this:

Higgins caught the slant pass in stride as middle linebacker Paul Posluszny nearly got a hand on the ball.

Instead, Higgins split safeties Donte Whitner and Ko Simpson and was gone.

"When I got it, I said, 'I ain't going to get caught,' " Higgins said. "I knew I had to get through that. All I seen was green grass."

So gone was Higgins, he made like Olympic sprint champion Usain Bolt and slowed down at the Buffalo 25-yard line, taunting a trailing Whitner.

"If he had gotten closer," Higgins said, "I would have just sped up."

Instead, an incensed Whitner tackled Higgins in the end zone, drawing a flag. The penalty was offset, though, by Higgins' following touchdown dance celebration.

^^^file under reggie bush karma

vince young wouldnt be crying because he would have been KILLED by ZEUS

maybe the saints cause they have magical powers or the giants cause theyre huge but really it would be the patriots cause patriotism is the most powerful and decisive force in the universe

haha the cardinals would do poorly against all teams, but quell surprise amirite

are the new york jets, like jet airplanes? (is that a dumb question?) they might win the league.

dude I was at an exhibition game a month ago and the season ticket holders all hated jason campbell and the linemen with a pretty sizeable passion

the patriots would be like all those crazed jokers who went to the republican national convention, i.e. dead meat.

you know who would be weird to watch

the browns

yeah they are like jet airplanes but i think TITANS could even defeat jets because they are gods

lions
panthers
jaguars
bengals

^^^would pay to see these matchups unlike IRL

eew max

aw detroit might actually win once in a while if they were lions.

itd be cool tho you could re-arrange the conferences into divisions based on types like 'mythical figures' 'based on long-defunct working-class hero' 'birds'

like a brown mist vs a slab of steel or something

seahawks vs dolphins would provide a rewarding challenge for NFL Films

i like this new we are all five years old direction this thread has taken.

the vikings would be doing so much better, i feel like

broncos would molest the colts hardcore

lol we should stop fronting like we all ahvent had this conversations 60000000000 times before

watching houston lose would be even more fun than it already is (sorry to all victims of hurricane ike)

yeah i just watched a thing on the history channel about the dark ages and Vikings were some motherfuckers with dark secrets.

lol in this version where the vikings are actual vikings does tavaris get portrayed by antonio banderas

i think all the black players get cut in the version where the vikings are actual vikings.

wtf is a charger

i was wondering. like, one of those things you put under your dinner plate to keep the food from getting on the table?

Buffalo Bills VS San Francisco 49ers
Miami Dolphins VS Seattle Seahawks
New England Patriots VS Houston Texans (i am assuming they are separationists)
New York Jets VS New York Giants (because giants can reach up and grab jets? i'm stretching with a few of these)
Pittsburgh Steelers VS Green Bay Packers
Baltimore Ravens VS Arizona Cardinals
Cincinnati Bengals VS Jacksonville Jaguars
Cleveland Browns VS San Diego Chargers (??? i don't know what to do with these conceptual teams)
Indianapolis Colts VS Denver Broncos
Tennessee Titans VS New Orleans Saints
Kansas City Chiefs VS Washington Redskins
Oakland Raiders VS Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Dallas Cowboys VS Minnesota Vikings
Philadelphia Eagles VS Atlanta Falcons
Chicago Bears VS Detroit Lions
Carolina Panthers VS St. Louis Rams (because someone has to play the rams?)

packers is 'mythical working-class stereotype' i think

jaguars too

wait no

kinda sucks that all new sports teams from this point forward are just gonna have generic GMC truck animal names or shit like "the titans" or "the thunder". i mean most of them in the past were too but i like those weird ones like the 49ers or the packers.

o u were asking about chargers wtf am i on about

a charger is "one who chargers"

somehow i am not satisfied

haha hi dere waht is a packer i eat arugalas!!! !

well judging purely by their helmets a "charger" is pure electricity in the form of a cartoon lightening bolt but really that's not helpful in who would win: a brown or a charger.

The Green Bay Packers were founded on August 11, 1919 by former high-school football rivals Earl "Curly" Lambeau and George Whitney Calhoun. Lambeau solicited funds for uniforms from his employer, the Indian Packing Company. He was given $500 for uniforms and equipment, on the condition that the team be named for its sponsor. Today "Green Bay Packers" is the oldest team-name still in use in the NFL.

apparently chargers are some kind of horse bc the old logo had a horse on it

teams should go back to having names like this: http://www.rochesterjeffersons.com/

because wtf? how am i supposed to decide who would win, a jefferson v a patriot?

lambeau could have called the team "the indians"

or "the companies"

that's what happens when you give rochester a franchise (sorry, rogermexico!)

huh a charger is a dead horse
http://www.sportslogos.net/images/logos/7/164/thumbs/yw26b6l2oddew9zkxkc7.gif

that isn't going to get you very far? maybe it is mafia symbolism.

the rochester exit ramps

During the Middle Ages in Europe, there were three primary types of horses used in warfare: The destrier, the courser, and the rouncey, although a generic word often used to describe medieval war horses is charger, which appears interchangeable with the other terms.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horses_in_warfare

that is kind of super-geeky of san diego

Gerald Courtney of Hollywood, CA won an expenses-paid trip to Mexico City and Acapulco for submitting "Chargers" in name-the-team contest. In 1960, the Chargers began AFL play in Los Angeles; the Chargers' original owner, hotel heir Barron Hilton, son of Hilton Hotels founder Conrad Hilton, unveiled the Chargers' uniforms which featured blue and gold with lightning bolts on the sides of the helmets and trousers, at a cocktail party at Hilton's Santa Monica residence. Players Jack Kemp and Ron Mix modeled the new uniforms.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_San_Diego_Chargers

http://www.football-fanshop.com/Images/Product/41-97/41-97749-P.jpg

wiki manages to not disclose what "Gerald Courtney of Hollywood, CA" meant by "Chargers"

i know a lot of women who be chargers! with their credit cards!

oh bnw

charg·er1 /ˈtʃɑrdʒər/ chahr-jer

1. a person or thing that charges.
2. a horse of a kind suitable to be ridden in battle.
3. Electricity. an apparatus that charges storage batteries.

these new revelations mean that thte chargers should play the colts or broncos

the lightning bolt on the helmet kind of indicates that the third meaning was intended.

so weve got lightning bolts weve got horses and yes we have people charging forward

wtf san diego

chargers play themselves

only on the west coast amirite!!!!

um guys

what about a charger, like a car? like the general lee, is a charger.

I think browns vs. chargers works, because a brown could be like a brown-out, and a charger is like a cell phone accessory. it is a battle of whether the charger can do its job under brown-out conditions. yes.

chargers play themselves

― update prefs (ice crӕm), Monday, September 22, 2008 4:12 PM Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
http://static.gamesradar.com/images/mb/GamesRadar/us/Other/Features/2008/Street%20Fighter%20Retrospectives/Chun-li%20and%20Blanka/screens/Blanka_SFII%20Super_and_Super_Turbo--article_image.jpg

Chicago Bears VS Minnesota Vikings (bcz vikings would have to fite kodiaks and shit when they first came here?)
Detroit Lions VS Carolina Panthers (obv)
Dallas Cowboys VS St. Louis Rams (cowboys vs animal resembling unruly cow?)

i think the Cowboys have to play the Bills, right?

i like browns v. chargers! the forces of electricity vs. the forces of anti-electricity.

the problem is there are only two teams of native americans and way more teams of vocations in which trying to kill native americans was a big part of the job

haha yes, cleveland browns, avatars of entropy.

obv. we pit the chiefs and redskins against each other in the hope that they will exterminate themselves. :(

sorry for bringing down the thread guys.

i don't think the lions should fight the panthers, they are bigger.

panthers v. jaguars?

that is better because it is more fair

when i was little and they invented those "expansion" teams i totally thought they were the same thing, anyway.

wait shouldn't eagles play seahawks

chargers play themselves

They've been doing this for years!

One advantage the browns have against the chargers is that "brown" probably does not conduct electricity.

seahawks and dolphins share a diet plan

SAN DIEGO CHARGERS
The Los Angeles AFL franchise held a contest in 1960. Hollywood resident Gerald Courtney was awarded an all-expenses-paid trip to Mexico City and Acapulco after submitting Chargers. Three reasons for choosing Chargers have been offered - it sounded dynamic; the club’s new stationary featured a horse; and owner Baron Hilton had recently instituted the Carte Blanche card. The team kept the name when it moved to San Diego the following year.

Oilers vs Niners in U BOUGHT STOCKS LOL bowl

dang where the heck did this thread come from

also, i feel like the vince young situation has touched on something unspeakable but painful in the nfl, like that fatsis article ade posted says. deion sanders and TD have been extra-scornful whenever young comes up on NFLN, like he's letting their side down by deflating the hyper-masculine stoic mythology of the nfl. (i love deion, but i'm just saying.)

― horseshoe, Monday, September 22, 2008 1:38 PM (4 hours ago) Bookmark

otm - this whole thing got me to thinkin about michael oher btw, like maybe he'd be better off not even entering the draft next year. he's basically set for life as is, he'll have his degree and his rich white family will find hook him up with a job, meanwhile his childhood was like fukkin genie the feral child - so it's not like he NEEDS the nfl to escape his surroundings, and he seems sorta not suited for the extreme anxiety and pressure of it all? idk man!!!

btw, deion tried to kill himself once which makes his whole stance on the issue... more interestin i guess

i remember when alonzo spellman was on the bears there were all these weird rumors swirling around about him crossdressing and having a downlow bro who was a fellow teammate and some of the talk radio around chicago at that time was pretty vile w/r/t that, but i don't think it's exclusive to the nfl i think it's all sports that aren't more or less progressive in their thinking, which is probably pretty much every sport outside of a few olympic ones.

btw, deion tried to kill himself once which makes his whole stance on the issue... more interestin i guess

― cankles, Monday, September 22, 2008 5:42 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

wow i never knew that. wowowow. that makes it seem like his whole stance on this is even more intensely about trauma than TD's.

sort of off topic, has there ever been a thread of speculation on the grand nfl tradition of gay pass-rushers? i am thinking LT, Bruce Smith, and Strahan. (i have no substantiating information on LT + Smith; i just always got a vibe.)

they go after that azz

also, i never knew about either Michael Oher's or Genie the feral child's childhoods and now i am sad.

srsly tho the unique physical damage the nfl does cannot be overstated as far causing psychological stress - on some level youve got to understand that yr life is getting appreciably shorter every time you suit up

man, genie haunted me for a while after i initially found out about her, nightmares and whathaveyou. peep this:

i see what you're saying abt LT~! he's a really fascinatin case to me, he really comes off like a miserable, tortured soul whenever you see him interviewed these days

bison dele to thread ;_;

goddamn. the wikipedia entry says that after the NIH stopped funding the therapist's care of her he discontinued his foster care and she regressed.

:( genie :(

aw. tony kornheiser's hair makes me a little sad for him.

okay, i'm over it.

lol philip rivers

loooooooool this game

haha i'm totally posting in the wrong thread! sorry, guys.

wow what a great int!

"On topic, my vote goes to Charles Tillman."

I second that one. The Bucs were caught going into a fourth and long underneath their own goal posts and Tillman pulled freakin' he man he hit me and hit back, which ended with getting a 15 yard penalty against the Bears. Tampa then drove down and kicked the winning field goal.

STUPID STUPID STUPID STUPID STUPID STUPID!

cankles otm with Oher; he might be best served by playing a season and retiring... or maybe just getting a blue/white collar job instead.

Re: feral children, here's another frightening story (told partially from the "parent's" perspective:

http://www.tampabay.com/features/humaninterest/article750838.ece

http://www.tampabay.com/specials/2008/reports/danielle/

holy fucking christ

"The mother's statement was: 'I'm doing the best I can,' " the detective said. "I told her, 'The best you can sucks!' "

lazy zing

http://cdn.liveleak.com/18/media18/2008/Sep/22/LiveLeak-dot-com-229582-P1010900.jpg

fan tribute to david foster wallace

i didn't mean to put that on this thread but whatever it's fine

tbh i was hopin to see some black DFW patches last sunday

The importance of nurturing has been shown again and again. In the 1960s, psychologist Harry Harlow put groups of infant rhesus monkeys in a room with two artificial mothers. One, made of wire, dispensed food. The other, of terrycloth, extended cradled arms. Though they were starving, the baby monkeys all climbed into the warm cloth arms.

"Primates need comfort even more than they need food," Armstrong said.

I would appreciate "Primates need comfort even more than they need food" added to board description plzkthxbye

http://www.simplypsychology.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/harlow-monkey.jpg

Touched by the hands of Joe Pa.
http://blog.pennlive.com/patriotnewssports/2007/10/hug.jpg

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2006/players/10/31/hometown1106/t1_pititgout.jpg

'Twas a bad sign when the Bills traded for Tavaris Jackson yesterday, but now Vince has officially been cut.

It's too bad this guy peaked in that BCS Championship game vs. USC (though it was probably the greatest BCS Championship game ever). For reals hope he doesn't kill himself.

Some thoughts:

1 - As a Titans fan, I kinda hate Vince. False hope in the aftermath of McNair, never quite got it together. frustrated me every year. hope he has a better life out of football.
2 - That feral child thing is still a sad story - http://www.tampabay.com/features/humaninterest/article1186860.ece
3 - yikes at the joepa pic above

If VY was smart, he would go to the CFL where he could play and maybe actually improve. I don't think his ego will allow that to happen, but others have gone that way and made it work. After he cracked from the pressure in Tennessee, going to the bench probably meant his potential for improvement pretty much ceased.

I got a feeling he is a classic case dude that was such a freaking amazing athlete it carried him all the way even into a bit of success in the NFL, but when he actually had to start working at it and really working at the modern QB trigonometry, he was fxxxed. The guy is probably still a pretty great athlete and maybe just maybe growing a couple years older and actually just playing all the time without the glare of being "VINCE 'VY' YOUNG", he might improve, maybe mature as he grows older and might get a real shot.