Tragic Football Stories - Let us Kick Around the misshapen Jabulani that is English football right here

i think whether the fa are prepared to pay £12m to scapegoat capello is going to be a good litmus test of their appetite for real reform, which is why i expect him to get the sack. if they wanted him to stay they could have said so immediately - after two weeks of speculation, he'll be glad to get out i imagine.

I'd keep Capello + get rid of Lamps + Gerrard.

How is letting Capello have his way not going to create another unhappy camp, unless different players are involved? And as you say, Capello picked the squad. So either this was a knowing ploy to get rid of a lot of the old guard after failure, or he's not the judge of a player we might've thought he was, or there's a near-insurmountable pressure to pick guys who aren't good enough/fit enough/mentally right that will still be there whoever Capello is replaced with.

he's getting paid whatever - giving possibly the outstanding club manager of the last twenty years £10m not to work for you is indefensible right now

realest talk, but watch and learn

joe totally otm. Capello sacked, new boss, business as usual. Especially if the new boss is Arry as he would be the perfect expression of the FA as Business Ueber Alles.

redknapp should be able to settle with the revenue. pay them £40,000, call it a misunderstanding. it'll all be dug up again the moment england go through a bad patch but i could see a desperate fa turning a blind eye now.

"ey Fabio this ain't the league mate" pretty much sums up dude's failings, yeah

Arry is also a great exponent of 442. Sticking with Capello would be the 451 thing to do, IMO

^yes I went there

Redknapp would be a disastrous international manager, he thrives on being able to bring in players to solve problems and if those players are just not out there in the 'market' I'm not sure he'd be able to fix things. Also the FA were pretty nervous about Venables' dodgy dealings and I'm not sure they'd take that risk with Redknapp. Also I don't want him to leave Spurs.

Hodgson at least has some experience as an international manager. He'll do.

Far as I can see, only 3 English managers having any degree of success at the moment: 'Arry, Hodgson (off to the 'Pool) and, errrr, Steve McClaren. Go for the younger man I say.

classic material from alan shearer's column in the sun today. it begins: "NO ONE likes kicking a man when he is down..."

oh yeah? http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/85000/images/_86318_alan_shearer_and_neil_lennon_after_kicking_incident300%2830-04-98%29allsport.jpg

Remember when Kings used to lead their armies back in ye olde times? Get Prince William in there and make that sponger earn his salary from The FA.

DAER SPURB FANZ wud u take swop caleppo and renkdapp

i can't remember where i read the slow cooking/fast food domestic league vs internationals analogy but i'd trust arry & sandra to whip a quick buffet sooner than fabio or woy tbh

Redknapp, and I don't want it to happen for two main reasons, would be the ideal manager for this group, and I think that he's done well out of players he already had at Spurs as well as buying them in Matt.

Also, that would be ignoring that he could 'bring in' any number of players like Walcott, Huddlestone, Dawson, Rodwell, Wilshere, Zamora, whoever.

Bentley and Bent could suck it tho

Did Arry really say that about swapping a bentley for a honda on BBC after the Japan game btw?

Honda have quality cars, get into a Civic.

he did

it was a groaner but the shaggy-dog delivery was kinda impressive for a pundit imo

Remember when Kings used to lead their armies back in ye olde times? Get Prince William in there and make that sponger earn his salary from The FA.

― They'll be dancing in the streets of Košice tonight (King Boy Pato), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 10:17 (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Astride a horse = unwanted redux of Crouchch-on-as-sub high ball tactics

er, Crouch

DAER SPURB FANZ wud u take swop caleppo and renkdapp

― so you want Mark Ronson to cry into your ass (acoleuthic), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 10:17 (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

yes; Calippo would not

Astride a horse

http://www.fortunecity.com/bally/avoca/277/kingbilly.jpg

would definitely have capello as the successor to arry. he'd cane bentley up and down bill nick way imo

World Cup 2010: Blatter sorry for disallowed goal

sorry usually means you'll try not to let it happen again.

An idea that just occurred to me - absolute squad limits. Clubs pick their 23 men on day one and are stuck with them. You *can* buy youngsters to sit in the stands, but everyone would have to be honest about it. Any kids in the 23 would be guaranteed playing time. The other kids, if they had any useful mentality whatsoever, would go elsewhere. Also a handy way of (i) shifting talent down the pyramid a bit, and (ii) keeping budgets down a little.

Of course it'd have to apply to the premier league to achieve anything, and there's almost no incentive for the premier league to agree to it. Which seems to be the problem with English football in a nutshell.

xp Try telling that to Bernie Taupin...

Squad capped at 25 is not a new idea, i think, and yeah all for it.

Of course it'd have to apply to the premier league to achieve anything, and there's almost no incentive for the premier league to agree to it. Which seems to be the problem with English football in a nutshell.

Well quite. And expecting any new law to be followed in spirit rather than pushed to a meaningless breaking point is optimistic given the current climate. Now the question is, how far could the FA push the Premier League in theory, and why does it choose not to do so. DJ Shadow answers coming up after this break.

Man utd and Chelsea would just break it with impunity anyway

am I right that teams have to submit their 25 man league squads next season? Except you can play all the players under X age (I forget) you want. Will this make any difference?

how far could the FA push the Premier League in theory

Is the ångström still a unit of measurement?

cunt-hair is workable

Prefer ba' hair

am I right that teams have to submit their 25 man league squads next season? Except you can play all the players under X age (I forget) you want. Will this make any difference?

i think they're some stipulations about those under-25's, whether they're developed by the club, brought in, brought in from abroad, w/e. gets complicated.

This is like the Football League rules that I abuse on FM 2010 but having 4 crappy homegrown dudes on my subs bench every match, right?

Yeah.

Was the thinking behind having 7 subs and not 5 iirc

I think the foreigners debate is worth having but not in the Blatter 6+5 or the 'I'm a racist Sun reader but' sense. I just don't understand what football teams get from buying the majority of foreign footballers. Was John Utaka really worth spending all that money on? Couldn't Portsmouth have spent 1/50th of his wages+bonus+transferfee+agentkickbacks to improve their academy and potentially get a decent striker or three come through every year? What do Mido and Benni McCarthy offer West Ham that Sears and Hines don't, other than limited ability to move away from a pie stand? Southampton were able to create at least 2 wingers of Champions League ability in the past 10 years, the type of players that earned them 10m each, so they use that money to buy Papa Waigo? Is there really no more Bales or Walcotts coming through with the same coaching staff and techniques, so you go for Papa fucking Waigo instead? Or does the giant Senegalise population of Southampton bring in extra needed revenue?

Basically my point is our academies and coaching may suck but really they cannot suck so much that John Utaka seems a valid option ahead of them, surely? Until all academies in the country get to the point where they notice that they can make a Champions League ability player (which Theo is and Bale will be next season) instead of closing your eyes on Football Manager and clicking at random until you find your next signing, English football can get tae fuck. We will continue to have the Gerrard-Lampard debate because there is no-one else of the top quality to make the fucking first eleven, let alone the squad, let alone Premiership teams.

I just don't understand what football teams get from buying the majority of foreign footballers

very much my point from earlier on. Redknapp style payoffs from agents?

What do Mido and Benni McCarthy offer West Ham that Sears and Hines don't, other than limited ability to move away from a pie stand?

consider this english-football imaginary board excelsiored

lol tho theo walcott is not a champion's league quality player

As of next season-

Clubs have to declare an A squad of which 8 must be trained (3 years in the country before the age of 21, i.e. buying a player from abroad at 17 is fine but as Brazilian's can't travel till 18, Rafael or Denilson for example, do not count) within the UK and 4 of those must be trained by the club itself. They may also declare a B squad of any youngsters under 21.

just don't understand what football teams get from buying the majority of foreign footballers

*splutter*

All morning now I've been thinking "ten two-footed dudes who can pass short" is the way to go, really.

― Mertesacker Emptiness (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 11:09 (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

england don't have ten of these guys- by the time they get to full-international age they've all given up and gone breadman

― ,,,,,,eeeeleon (darraghmac), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 11:12 (29 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

I should be posting this in the other thread, soz.

― Mertesacker Emptiness (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 11:12 (0 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

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Clearly England don't, I was positing it as some kind of development plan.

I know you are trolling so I won't go into it but I was thinking of smaller clubs making money or having top class players (and as lol as me saying it is, anyone who plays for a top 3 side usually = top class) come through their academy. Whether that guy who has demolished teams such as Liverpool and Barcelona and Porto in the CL is of that quality or not then you decide whether to troll or not. :)

teams such as Liverpool, you say?

Tom top level players are different. I can obviously understand what Torres or Drogba add. Or as I said in the other thread, Wigan's ability to buy foreigners makes perfect sense. But what has Newcastle's proven track record of buying from outside the country added to their game, let alone the national side, other than complete and utter failure? Did *sorry Ronan* Rafa need to buy 97 players in his time at Liverpool?

demolished liverpool in that loss that time?

walcott has played in the CL, and if that's the only stipulation then that's the mark i guess.

I'll choke the first time someone describes benoit assou-ekotto or jermaine jenas as CL 'quality' players. I sincerely hope you think about that

don't undertand the confusion about ahh's basic point- why do southampton need to buy a bad player from spain for ££££ as opposed to promoting a bad player from the reserves in that position?

why do liverpool? Spurs?

were all of our right backs worse than alan hutton?

9m worse?

don't for a second buy that.

the blind panic at losing to greece is hilarious. the fa is just not a serious organisation. the value of having a great management in mens international football is mostly bollocks with the exception of rehhagel imo. unless you get someone stupendously bad like roberto martinez i guess.

oh and i guess the next int. break is november so preparing for countless bullshit questions over whether tuchel will wear a poppy or not.

xp otm Greece are the form team rn, playing (v well) for pride too against a poor but clearly experimenting Eng

 a sarnt major who has seen battle

Don't disagree really but who would this be rn?

feels like only a week ago or so the vibe was how brilliant carsley would be and what a seamless transition it was, now he loses one game and he must be cast out forever.

i do think someone like howe might be better than tuchel, or even potter, idk. just think tuchel is a narky sort and it won't go well as a result, it's hardly a job free of politics.

(xp) Dyche obv.

Carsley was probably as good a shout as anybody (too deep in the chumminess of England to really do what's required but as oscar says international football management is not a serious job) but Carsley's main failing in the FA's eyes would be he doesn't increase value for the brand

carsley's interviews were absolutely abysmal but doesn't mean he's a bad manager i guess.

at the end of the day he just looks too much like Ross Kemp

he wasnt little england enough as an englishman, better to go full foreign than have that consultant almost rugby sincerity of actual perspective around stupid questions like the anthem/poppy etc

"i couldnt give a fuck about englands war dead to be honest with you peter" would be a sensational moment of national growth tho imo

I want "What about Germany's war dead? One word, Dresden" from Tuchel or gtf.

Is Carsley just going to go back to the under-21s now, like a flustered mouse at the end of a children's book?

lol

I've got a Richard Scarry image of Carsley stuck in my head forever now

reporter on the radio discussing Tuchel this morning - "he's a very bright guy, he's got a business degree"

have we got a "commentary cliches" thread and is it time for "pockets of space" to go and have a lie down for a bit?

Do you ever listen to Football Cliches? Not sure if anyone on ILX does but I find it pretty consistently funny.

Not much of a podcast listener. I love the Bryan's Gunn videos, which are more my attention span

Ah the two are very closely related, think one has helped the other along, but understand if podcasts not your thing.

It's explored a lot of language in detail and in a funny way.

My favourite thing they've found is that Paul Merson thinks "come what may" is in fact "come what May" referring to the month.

And has, more than once, said "come what February" or "come what March".

Co-sign Football Cliches. Great stuff and the gentle way they take the piss out of Merson is class.

i do love when somebody completely misunderstands a common phrase and publicly demonstrates that altho to be fair Merson has more excuse than many

"Come what 5 o'clock".

come what saturday

There is a fair percentage of Cliches where I'm more just nodding along or even just like fine not paying too much attention, but it makes me laugh out loud more than any other pod.

Also has that "these are good people feeling" that is quite rare with pods, like the trio just have a good, natural vibe which is also rare in sport content.

Is there an Irish version of this thread?

it is under state documents acts for 25 years

You know it's bad when players whose name sounds like a pension provider start scoring.

Keane's future son in law no less