Tragic Football Stories - Let us Kick Around the misshapen Jabulani that is English football right here

I didn't realise as many as seven of that Barça team were home-grown - that's really quite impressive

WELL DONE BARCEFUCKINGLONA GO AND PLAY WITH YOUR UNICEF FRIENDS AND MAKE A COMMERCIAL

Ha, I was about to parody that lj post practically word-for-word. If you're not eulogising FC Bonyodkor as footballing nirvana by the end of the close season I will feel majorly let down.

It's pretty fucking amazing in this day and age, Louis don't be a cock.

Not uncommon in Spain tho? Apart from Real Madrid, of course.

hahaha I was definitely posting very much in character, not making an actual argument there - it is pretty damn impressive yes

also yeah Bilbao's feats are probably even more impressive - they don't have a worldwide scouting network and the best youth coaches money can buy

besides Messi everyone who's currently starring after being brought through the Barca youth system is Spanish though, no? But no doubt that Bilbao's shit is remarkable indeed, especially with the history (to what extent does it still apply?) of restricting themselves to a place with a population comparable to that of Wales.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwQ80x2MrG8

I remember Mallorca doing well one year in a European competition and the fact that all of their players were born within 20 miles of their ground

... in the UK, we'd say "Oh well of course that sort of thing doesn't happen anymore" blah blah blah

in the uk, it doesn't.

We're so much more advanced here

the uk football team

Loathe as I am to add grist to the mill of less-reputable posters, I must confess to finding Spain pretty boring to watch. It's good when there's a real struggle on and they look vulnerable, but in this tournament that's been just the opening against Chile and maybe half-an-hour today. Possibly the last ten minutes against Switzerland at a stretch. Otherwise there's no drama, it's mostly just waiting around for them to score. That's kind of how I remember 2008 as well.

I want to see them hounded, and have to respond, in big games that could go either way. If they do that well then great, I'll be a fan, but until I see that I have no faith. Holland would probably beat them. Uruguay too maybe. Germany would have a good chance. Brazil would murder them.

― Ismael Klata, 29 June 2010 22:27 (Yesterday)

<3 IK, he's a serious football poster etc- but is this attitude (is it prevailing, for a start?) a large part of the problem wrt English international footballers being so rushed, impatient, dramatic on the ball?

I mean, I'm just happy if John O'Shea can find a team mate, to hell with the pass being in any way forward progress on top of that tbh.

The problem with Spain is that Iniesta and Xavi started their careers as DMs, so do they really need them two, Xabi Alonso AND Sergio Busquiets in midfield w/ no wingers? They are by far the most creative team in the world, fucking do something with it, try and beat yr man occasionally instead of making your 67th consecutive pass. It's effective football but its also extremely boring.

Brazil v. Spain will be p intense tho

Not the problem w/ English football. We'd fucking love some of Spain's patience and ability to back it up. England play that fast and dramatic because they are scared of losing the ball soon enough if they try and pass it to each other.

Hey, I'm taking none of the blame for that nonsense!

You've got a serious point wrt to actually watching the England team, namely that they're such a drama queen - and drama queens do make such great viewing. No idea why England (and France! And I guess Argentina!) should have become the football equivalent of high camp, but they are almost always undeniably compelling. I don't know if 'twas ever thus - I can't think of a proper example before 1986, though the seeds are there in 66 and 73 - but since 86 it has turned into a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy, in that passion and hysterical overreaction have become the answer to everything. Not sure we'd like calm efficiency very much. It certainly wouldn't make for a memorable narrative.

xxp

Iniest and Xavi are DM's, but not in the English understanding of the position. They're deep-lying playmakers. Iniesta never convinced in the role because of his preference for attacking options in movement/passing. He also beats his man more often than any english player I could name, tbh.

Villa plays wide on the left- he's an real winger, as opposed to playing Milner on the right of midfield.

With Villa on the left, they don't need anyone on the right- Ramos gets into the opponent's box more often than Lampard/Gerrard/Lennon/Walcott.

Spain keep the ball and attack with runs from deep because that's how you break down teams that refuse to attack you- When England learn to do this rather than run en masse up front and wait for a long ball, taking away any options for the man on the ball in the process, they might make the 1/4 finals again.

xp to IK

Yeah, the sturm/drang of the premier league is carried over in the english player mentality, I think. If you're not achieving something immediately, it's suspiciously foreign.

Villa is not a winger wtf although I guess he'll turn into a wing-forward for Barca.

Darragh OTM on Villa and Ramos, they both got past their man time and time again. I'm not sure A Hoy Hoy was watching the same Spain as me last night.

Also Andreas Pirlo was the best player in the best team at the last World Cup and you didn't see him charging past his man very often.

Ramos spent the first half in his own half, was a lot better in the second.

Villa not a winger? The dude touches chalk for 50% of the game!

Ramos: Opposition teams tire, you want your right back disciplined to begin with tbf.

He's an out-and-out striker who drifts into wide positions, its what players can do in these modern teams that aren't wedded to 4-4-2.

Basically- Spain are set up to take into account the actual movement of players when the team has the ball, which is why you get three-four options when it comes to picking out a killer ball. Almost like a playbook is Yankball, maybe?

I do love Tom Humphries' writing. Here he writes about German youth/English youth footballing methods

^^^ E-fucking-xactly.

Capello digging his heels in. I can't see him being cowed by The Sun, so this might not end in complete disaster.

John Terry, while prob one of England's best performers, can kiss his international career goodbye if Capello stays, right?

That was a good article.

can't think of a proper example before 1986, though the seeds are there in 66 and 73

The dramatic narrative in '82 was provided by the inclusion of two 30something stars-that-we-couldn't-leave-out, who were both carrying injuries - Keegan and Brooking. Keegan's best years as an international had been wasted in non-qualification and now he'd returned to English club football. The whole thing seemed to be about Superstar SuperKev of the SuperSaints and his WC Dream.

Sans KK and TB, England coasted through the group, drew 0-0 with West Germany in the second group stage and needed to beat Spain by two goals to make the semis. On came the crocked veterans for the last 20min. Brooking crosses for Keegan to head wide from six yards. I think this was also the debut of Clough's non-truism "it only takes a second to score a goal". And Big Jack C's helpful "if they get one with enough time to get another one, they'll be alright." Which, taken together, essentially meant 0-0 at 89:58 was still a winnable position.

John Terry, while prob one of England's best performers

... exsqueeze me?

Wait, Brooking played in 1982? WTF?

I thought Terry was one of england's better players- obviously pretty awful in the German game, but certainly in the group stages was one of the only performers, alongside A Cole.

Struggling to think of who could count as one of England's best performers. Ashley Cole? Jermain Defoe? Someone who came on for a few minutes at the end of the game and didn't disgrace themselves? Michael Dawson? Theo Walcott?

Carrick will have been pleased with his own individual standing- Dawson also came out as a sure thing for the next campaign.

Thought Cashley was OK. And Calamity James. Terry arguably squeaked by against the mighty forward lines of Algeria and Slovienia but was mince, when you get right down to it

the problems were with teamwork so there's no point picking out good performers. for every missed pass there was a lack of movement to give any decent options. the really telling detail was when james took a goal kick or anyone took a throw in, they would always wait for a few moments looking out in despair at the field in front of them.

Terry 80% pass success rate, FWIW, according to article above.

anyone took a throw in, they would always wait for a few moments looking out in despair at the field in front of them

lol tottenham hotspur, as long as i've watched them. we lose possession from the majority of our own throw ins, i swear.

80% success trundling the ball sideways to Upson

What d'you want from John Terry in possession, I ask?

Whatever happened to Statto by the way?

Terry 80% pass success rate, FWIW, according to article above.

― ,,,,,,eeeeleon (darraghmac), Wednesday, 30 June 2010 11:34 (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

means nothing for centre halves btw

I know nothing about the development of soccer players though, because, simply put, you need to be from dublin or cork to get a game or a sniff of a game at FAI utd FC

dunno, one thing ive noticed in recent years is players on the irish team not from those cities for a change - stephen hunt (waterford), kevin doyle (wexford), shane long (tipperary)

Wait, Brooking played in 1982? WTF?

Oh yes. But never again afterwards (and incoming Eng manager Bobby Robson dropped Keegan from the squad for the first Euro 84 qualifier in Sept '82, so that lame 20min cameo at the Bernabeu was his last hurrah too).

Lousy structure to that tournament - second round of four three-team groups. Spain had nothing to play for vs England (though the other final R2 matches were more "live", in each case one side only needed a draw to progress).

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/06/30/article-1290711-0A432C17000005DC-888_634x531.jpg

Lennon is da pimp

Michael- yeah, but hunt has been in England since forever (since he was 15 I think) and I think both of the others came from Cork City?

Great article by Humphries

the really telling detail was when james took a goal kick or anyone took a throw in, they would always wait for a few moments looking out in despair at the field in front of them.

^realest of talk, if someone made a Zidane-style film of James v Germany it'd be like Bad Lieutenant or something, he looked that angry every time the camera picked him up

(may be wrong about doyle coming from cork, tbh, but waterford still the rich and pampered east of the country imo)