Tragic Football Stories - Let us Kick Around the misshapen Jabulani that is English football right here

Maybe take some of the Britishes interest navel-gazing out of the proper World Cup thread I thought?

Lennon Huddlestone Wilshere Young Agbonlahor Walcott
c'mon fabio you know it makes sense

― ,,,,,,eeeeleon (darraghmac), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 09:41 (11 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Maybe I shall regret going here but I wonder what it is about those guys that mightn't appeal to England's core fan demographic as much as Lamps and Stevie and Rooney and Barry

― Mertesacker Emptiness (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 09:42 (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

can't understand who chairmen/managers think they're pleasing when they buy a player in to sit on the bench and play 5 times a season.

In Scottish football, historically this has been a method used by the Celtic and Rangers to make sure they have the player and no-one else does

― I am utterly and abjectly pissed off with this little lot (Tom D.), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 09:43 (9 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

ooooh NV

cmon seriously?

― ,,,,,,eeeeleon (darraghmac), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 09:46 (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

As long as they're winning they'll be fine

― I am utterly and abjectly pissed off with this little lot (Tom D.), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 09:47 (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

I dunno. No, not seriously, but let us consider the "type" of an England "hero". Let's think of Stuart Pearce's bulging neck veins as he shouts for Carling in that ad or whatever. I mean "Englishness" is a definite thing for a lot of the England hardcore. And I definitely think the FA is more bothered about the Brand than the football, tbh.

― Mertesacker Emptiness (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 09:48 (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

There's a shitload to unpack in what are widely considered the virtues of the English game compared to the virtues that other big football nations espouse. I really really don't want to kick start a clusterfuck but it was a fleeting thought when I looked at that front 6 of darragh's up there.

― Mertesacker Emptiness (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 09:50 (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

saw the england-usa game in a south london pub where the guy behind me was a passionate england fan who shouted abuse at the team from the start, culminating in calling robert green a "fucking paki". so i could imagine this becoming a thing.

― joe, Tuesday, 29 June 2010 09:52 (21 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Thought this could be a general argument about the England team rather than a race clusterfuck but am leaving the steps that led here in the interests of full disclosure.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/worldcup2010/3033609/Is-David-Beckham-the-man-to-replace-Fabio-Capello.html

oh, great.

Somebody told me that one at work yesterday. Got plenty of love for Becks but I rolled about laughing at the idea. He's too much of a politician to want the job I'd've thought.

yeah this was needed tbh

I suppose the model there is Klinsmann and Germany

if only for the poetry

Becks has no coaching badges, no managerial experience and has never courted the job. So on the surface he would seem a high-risk successor.

But

Classic But

becks is no klinsmann

Sheringham won't take it, seems to have no interest in coaching.

scholes hates the publicity

You're gonna be stuck with Gary Neville imo

what England needs is a player-manager.

but that man must be Maradona.

Seriously Beckham might be more use to English football right now if he got involved with FA politics à la Brooking.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2010/8766476.stm

g taylor talks sense here imo

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2010/8688093.stm

this article a chastening example: According to European football's governing body Uefa, Spain had almost 15,000 Uefa A and Pro Licence coaches in 2008 - more than double the number of any other European nation. And that is despite it taking 750 study hours to acquire a Pro Licence in Spain, compared with just 245 in England.

Should go the whole hog and have John Terry as player-manager if England have no hope of anything ever for the next 10 years.

xp saying that, the english u20s are looking pretty good actually

guess they always do though

Capello will get massive abuse in the media and inevitably eventually the sack, and will likely largely get off the hook here. I reckon the media closer to the truth than we are - the guy created an unhappy camp, took a poor and unadventurous squad, and in any case you're not telling me that that team couldn't've been put out to perform better than that. But I'd still keep him because:

- the guy's track record is still outstanding, even with this massive blot on it
- you don't get a track record like that without learning from your mistakes - no way are England going to turn up at another tournament looking like that
- surely this debacle is at least partly the result of him acting against his instincts - let him have free reign, and if it means a lot of bruised egos well so be it, massaged egos haven't brought results either
- he's getting paid whatever - giving possibly the outstanding club manager of the last twenty years £10m not to work for you is indefensible right now
- realistically, what's the alternative?

- realistically, what's the alternative?

A Scottish manager

england u-20s have always looked good, yeah.

the last england u-15 side i caught ina full match was pretty amazing, AFAIR a certain A johnson was only one of maybe three Middlesborough players in the midfield.

Capello gets free rein from me for creating an unhappy camp, if the alternative is to create a happy camps of spoiled brats.

Bringing the 23 players he did, after picking what i thought was a very bright and encouraging 30 to begin with, yeah that's a black mark.

Selecting the 11-15 players he did from those 23 consistently regardless of performance- ey Fabio this ain't the league mate.

rationally speaking capello should probably stay but the taint of failure is often insurmountable past a point

harry redknapp is the only alternative worth considering - he would do it but the tax fiddling's most likely knocked it on the head

i think whether the fa are prepared to pay £12m to scapegoat capello is going to be a good litmus test of their appetite for real reform, which is why i expect him to get the sack. if they wanted him to stay they could have said so immediately - after two weeks of speculation, he'll be glad to get out i imagine.

I'd keep Capello + get rid of Lamps + Gerrard.

How is letting Capello have his way not going to create another unhappy camp, unless different players are involved? And as you say, Capello picked the squad. So either this was a knowing ploy to get rid of a lot of the old guard after failure, or he's not the judge of a player we might've thought he was, or there's a near-insurmountable pressure to pick guys who aren't good enough/fit enough/mentally right that will still be there whoever Capello is replaced with.

he's getting paid whatever - giving possibly the outstanding club manager of the last twenty years £10m not to work for you is indefensible right now

realest talk, but watch and learn

joe totally otm. Capello sacked, new boss, business as usual. Especially if the new boss is Arry as he would be the perfect expression of the FA as Business Ueber Alles.

redknapp should be able to settle with the revenue. pay them £40,000, call it a misunderstanding. it'll all be dug up again the moment england go through a bad patch but i could see a desperate fa turning a blind eye now.

"ey Fabio this ain't the league mate" pretty much sums up dude's failings, yeah

Arry is also a great exponent of 442. Sticking with Capello would be the 451 thing to do, IMO

^yes I went there

Redknapp would be a disastrous international manager, he thrives on being able to bring in players to solve problems and if those players are just not out there in the 'market' I'm not sure he'd be able to fix things. Also the FA were pretty nervous about Venables' dodgy dealings and I'm not sure they'd take that risk with Redknapp. Also I don't want him to leave Spurs.

Hodgson at least has some experience as an international manager. He'll do.

Far as I can see, only 3 English managers having any degree of success at the moment: 'Arry, Hodgson (off to the 'Pool) and, errrr, Steve McClaren. Go for the younger man I say.

classic material from alan shearer's column in the sun today. it begins: "NO ONE likes kicking a man when he is down..."

oh yeah? http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/85000/images/_86318_alan_shearer_and_neil_lennon_after_kicking_incident300%2830-04-98%29allsport.jpg

Remember when Kings used to lead their armies back in ye olde times? Get Prince William in there and make that sponger earn his salary from The FA.

DAER SPURB FANZ wud u take swop caleppo and renkdapp

i can't remember where i read the slow cooking/fast food domestic league vs internationals analogy but i'd trust arry & sandra to whip a quick buffet sooner than fabio or woy tbh

Redknapp, and I don't want it to happen for two main reasons, would be the ideal manager for this group, and I think that he's done well out of players he already had at Spurs as well as buying them in Matt.

Also, that would be ignoring that he could 'bring in' any number of players like Walcott, Huddlestone, Dawson, Rodwell, Wilshere, Zamora, whoever.

Bentley and Bent could suck it tho

Did Arry really say that about swapping a bentley for a honda on BBC after the Japan game btw?

Honda have quality cars, get into a Civic.

he did

it was a groaner but the shaggy-dog delivery was kinda impressive for a pundit imo

Remember when Kings used to lead their armies back in ye olde times? Get Prince William in there and make that sponger earn his salary from The FA.

― They'll be dancing in the streets of Košice tonight (King Boy Pato), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 10:17 (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Astride a horse = unwanted redux of Crouchch-on-as-sub high ball tactics

er, Crouch

DAER SPURB FANZ wud u take swop caleppo and renkdapp

― so you want Mark Ronson to cry into your ass (acoleuthic), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 10:17 (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

yes; Calippo would not

Astride a horse

http://www.fortunecity.com/bally/avoca/277/kingbilly.jpg

would definitely have capello as the successor to arry. he'd cane bentley up and down bill nick way imo

World Cup 2010: Blatter sorry for disallowed goal

sorry usually means you'll try not to let it happen again.

An idea that just occurred to me - absolute squad limits. Clubs pick their 23 men on day one and are stuck with them. You *can* buy youngsters to sit in the stands, but everyone would have to be honest about it. Any kids in the 23 would be guaranteed playing time. The other kids, if they had any useful mentality whatsoever, would go elsewhere. Also a handy way of (i) shifting talent down the pyramid a bit, and (ii) keeping budgets down a little.

Of course it'd have to apply to the premier league to achieve anything, and there's almost no incentive for the premier league to agree to it. Which seems to be the problem with English football in a nutshell.

xp Try telling that to Bernie Taupin...

Jesus, that's 90 minutes of my life I'm not getting back

hugely disrespectful of Andorra to be defensively organised

As someone said upthread... is there an Irish version of this thread?

:'(

Hold on tho

I'd like to see the stats for the number of crosses in that game

Paid off in the end though, just about

moyes fulham vibes. i felt it was a sort of positive one for ireland in the end because they are clearly better but we really dragged them down into the shit and they doubted themselves. good for the campaign albeit nigh on impossible to qualify even before a ball was kicked.

Just the 43 it turns out

Fulham was 81

jesus, really? wtf

manning looks a good player

Yeah I thought Manning was the best Irish player last night.

The amount of crosses into the box in that second half was becoming comical but I guess it was effective? At least we are scoring goals now! That defense on the other hand...

The only thing I can think to say about England is that the vibes already feel more pre-Southgate eras now. At least under Southgate the team were routinely destroying weaker teams in qualifying. Hope Serbia really give them a kick up the arse. In any case the greater number of groups does make qualification duller and easier than ever for almost all higher ranked sides.

international managers that refuse to pick mainly on form bore me

insane goal northern ireland have just scored vs germany

insane goal northern ireland have just scored vs germany

just one actually

The Belarus stadium is so big and dark and empty, it’s the haunted football ground (where Scottish football dreams go to die…maybe).

It's actually in Hungary, not Belarus.

Not many Hungarian neutrals seemed to have turned up to watch.

Fans are banned from Belarus games but that hasn't stopped lots of Scotland fans turning up anyway!

Italy struggling again (2-2 in Israel rn). What was I saying about easier groups for the top seeds..

wow 4-4 from being 2-4 up

lol...best just wait another minute

About that Irish version of the thread...

Ouch.

The chances of this England match finishing without either racist chanting by Serbian fans and/or a Serbian player being accused of racist abuse seem pretty low.

BBC says "dismal but deserved defeat"

BBC otm

Let us Kick Around the misshapen Jabulani that is Moldovan football right here - 4 goals for Haaland so far.

8-1 now and Norway have scored all nine goals lol

Make that 9-1

Serbia 4-0 down and just had a soft red card, fans probably not going to be in the mood to tone it down a bit with the old racism & violence

Southgate vibes suddenly seem so back.

Five for Haaland and 10 (Ten) for Norway

No easy games in international football.

Not for Moldova, that's for sure.

11-1

A Rangers player has scored 4 goals. That's how bad Moldova are.

Norway are top of Group I with 15 points, then Italy and Israel are both on 9. I know it's usually funny when Italy don't qualify for the WC but not this time please.

Haaland has 44 caps and has scored 43 goals.

... that was before this game, it's now 45 caps, 48 goals!

yeah I do hope Italy make it, missing three is going too far xps

Seems implausible that Djed Spence is the first Muslim England international but apparently true.

Depends on whether Leon Osman is a Muslim, but nobody seems sure of that.

Will be good to hopefully see Haaland there too xps

Norway haven't qualified since the 90s

Couldn't care less about Haaland or Norway tbh.

Ireland truly desperate.

Nathan Collins must be the most overrated defender in the Prem, thinks he's VVD cos he moves effortlessly or looks like he's not trying but the difference is he actually isn't trying and gets bullied off the ball by people half his size.

In general the passing etc just historically woeful.

I havent seen Nathan Collins play that much for Brentford but hes highly rated. Wasnt he linked with Liverpool at one point? Absolutely woeful in an Ireland shirt

linked with a few clubs this summer. he was dire tonight. just all over the place, and as you say far from the first time he's made errors.

Sporting Khalsa vs Hereford match today was abandoned today due to racism from a fan

https://www.herefordtimes.com/sport/local/25464824.hereford-fc-v-sporting-khalsa-fa-cup-match-abandoned/

I'm glad that they take it this seriously now.

I didn't go but yes, good to see people taking it seriously. If we get kicked out, so be it.

I'm not going to throw names out in public but I'll put money down that it's somehow related to a story involving Lads Club from 2016. Hereford Times ran the story on it on the 5th November that year.