Jack Wilshere

This is kid is the real thing, like tbrr. a hoy hoy sez Ramsey is more talented but i'm not so sure. Wilshere reminds me of Scholes so much, almost the same size, thoroughly unenglish close control and unhurried approach play but with the self-preservation instincts of someone who spent their youth career trying to avoid career-ending Shawcrossings every week. The Zigic red-card was described as poor first touch, but was clearly totally deliberate (Zigic had knocked him to the ground minutes earlier). Did the same to Hubschmann in the first Shakhtar game, completely telegraphed once they tried to intimidate him.

If it was just technique you could put him on the same shelf as any number of River Plate/Sporting Lisbon hype kids but Wilshere has discernable intelligence and fight so I think he's already out of the 'promise' category, pretty much held his own vs Chelsea away even though the forwards weren't quite reading his passes (Arsenal all about super-choreographed interplay obviously).

said it already today but his propensity to move quickly towards the opposition goal as directly as possible when on the ball makes him more akin to gascoigne than the more crabways creepings of scholes.

kids looks the business.

That's cuz Scholes is a 35 yr old asthmatic playing usually in 4-4-2 and Wilshere is playing in 4-3-3 either as attacking mid or with license to attack.....

i remember 1995, don't worry. back then he was a vaguely lumpy striker.

Much like the Bale thing, I think Ramsey has the edge on him because he already has his *all-round* game in check. There is nothing to fault with him and then as you add experience & opportunity, he will become a beast - presuming being Shawcrossed didn't end it all. He may not play in a headline grabbing way but he does everything you need when you need it - last ditch tackles, nice interplay Arsenaly passing, shooting from distances (because we def. fucking need this) etc. He plays a lot like a captain too.

Wilshere still has a lot to learn, and I think it is v. smart of Wenger to be playing him in an interchangable way w/ Song atm. Song needs to work on his attacking skills (and is - he's scoring for fun) while Wilshere needs to learn how to play when off the ball. He's reckless in tackles, he does give away possession a lot more than his team-mates and he is often found out of position when we need cover. But considering his age and his rapid development - and presuming he isn't Shawcrossed - this will just take a small amount of time to knock out of his game. He is indeed an exceptional young player and I still stand by my oft-mocked comment that he is one of the few young players who could rival Messi this decade and maybe win some of the big trophies himself.

I look at this way - putting aside Barca's financial difficulties, I believe Cesc would have been sold if Ramsey was fit this summer. And if he gets back to where he should be by next summer, then I wouldn't be surprised to see Cesc go. Otoh, Wilshere seems to be an apprentice waiting for Rosicky/Arshavin to move on.

Also such a shame he is following Gazza down the rapey/jokey twat route. Hope Wenger kicks this out of him.

You can take the boy out of Stevenage...

I still stand by my oft-mocked comment that he is one of the few young players who could rival Messi this decade and maybe win some of the big trophies himself.

Wilshere could/should become a great player without ever getting close to Messi. Never a useful comparison to make. He doesn't seem anything like Gazza in temperament, more of a dull psycho type afaict. Kids will get into scraps but I doubt he's stupid enough to waste his chance.

He's never going to rival Messi because he doesn't play far enough up the pitch. He might one day rival Xavi/Iniesta/Fabregas which most sane Arsenal and England fans would accept as enough.

He strikes me as the sort of player who is often poorly-used and poorly-treated by England managers, witness the way Scholes and Hoddle were treated in their day. Maybe England will be so scarred by successive World Cups that we'll be crying out for someone like him, more likely he'll become the guy that gets taken off after 70mins in every game.

He's going to move onto the wing to replace Arshavin when he leaves and Theo moves to a central role, as I said above.

Funny Barney Ronay article on the subject of Wilshere and England from a few weeks back
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2010/oct/09/jack-wilshere-england-arsenal

He's going to move onto the wing to replace Arshavin when he leaves and Theo moves to a central role, as I said above.

― gazza bale flame (a hoy hoy), Thursday, 4 November 2010 10:53 (4 minutes ago)

This is amazingly obtuse from a fanatical Arsenal fan! Usually a Wilshere type player will be played wide to begin with but Wenger is pretty clear that Wilshere is a midfielder. The 'Walcott playing cf' thing is years old and clearly will never happen in a 4-3-3 cuz he's too small.

you cant be too small to play on either side of a three

The way Walcott is playing now is far preferable, ie a goalscoring wing-forward rather than a Jermain Defoe type who has to be played in a 4-4-2. Javier Hernandez will have that problem too.

defoe's position troubles me. Doesnt play well pivoting off a big man, much better working predatorially against defenders rather than as part of an ttacking unit.

As well to discount him from tactics altogether when picking him treat him as joker in the pack rather than yr usual small, tricksy creative attacker.

If only u had Drogba so u could conceal yr damn culchie racism in praise rather than condescension.

if only we had drogba, full stop tbh

you cant be too small to play on either side of a three

Either side of a three is not a "central role".

And why would you want Wilshere on the wing anyway?

must have skipped the concept of theo as central in a 3 out of pure ridiculousness.

There is something very interesting happening to English players under the age of 20. The current generation of 'at-their-peak' players, ie 22-28, has to be among the weakest of all time, Rooney excepted. Not sure any of the rest are even international class, let alone world class. Clunkers all.

But the crop beneath that really look the part. I wonder if this is the result of having spent their entire footballing careers operating within a more continental/progressive framework, whereas previous generations were still very much on the cusp of old vs new methods.

Wilshire has great potential, as does McEachran and Rodwell and there are others. None of them are typical English players - ie, none of them would work in a traditional 4-4-2 almost certainly because they have never played in that formation.

Chelsea are using McEachran in the Pirlo/Alonso role and have basically used him as a replacement for Ballack, which is incredible for a 17-year-old playing for the double winners.

It's obviously incredibly difficult to predict how player will continue to develop, but there's genuine hope for the future here - and also the belief that these players won't get fucked up by the system, because they system/consensus is starting to change with them.

Maybe.

agreed

'rooney excepted'

Gerrard, cashley and ferdinand, were they to perform at club level for england, would have had long international careers at any time

Theo is bulking up a lot and Wenger said this week that he is starting to prepare to move inside and we always play with 1 playmaker on the side - dunno why this is ridiculous? He's basically Rosicky Mk. 2 but English and hopefully can play every season.

I would put them in the age bracket just above, ie probably now past their peak and won't be at the next world cup. (although, ironically, they may have to play in 2014 simply through lack of options.) But what i'm saying is that there is a vast barren gap between the current big beasts, who are excellent players despite their failings, and the next crop. Is there a single English player aged 24-26 who is any good, Roony excepted.

Also I assume you simply didn't have the time to add Lampard and Terry to that list.

30, 29, 31 u tard xxp

rio 32 this week, more like rip amirite

Is there a single English player aged 24-26 who is any good, Roony excepted.

milner, glen johnson are alright

adam j is 23ish but gets lumped in with the kids....he's triffic tho

hart?

about the same age

i thought sturridge looked a great prospect a few years ago, still could get there

Pete's point is interesting but I'm not sure there are really enough of these players coming through. Once you get past Wilshere, McEachern and Rodwell you're starting to run out of players in that mould and England doesn't look like it's producing too many strikers in particular.

lol my bad. Yeah lampard terry could go in there had i read it.

Thudd, btw.

Sturridge looking much better this season, but he's still only 21.

Shelvey supposedly playing for Liverpool again tonight - another v good English under 19.

konch still only about 28

Strikers are so 2006.

was the 90s just a freak boom for english strikers? people who barely had an england career then would waltz into the team now...

          hart
johnson   jones   dawson?  gibbs
         rodwell   thudd
theo         wilshere    johnson
              rooney
              foster
onouha  richards cahill?  gosling?
        McEachern  milner
rose/bostock? lansbury/cleverly/jonjo? henderson
          Sturridge

Looks p decent to me. Certainly better than the current England squad (minus Cashley).

very little point tryin to pick an england team out of future stars. Didnt work with jay mceveley, wont work for phil joned

Well I don't think I've ever seen him have a bad game in the past year and its certainly not going to be Tomkins.

on form he should be england's #6 NOW, let alone in the future.

Oi, Jay McEveley's Scottish! Ish. Isn't he?

Am I thinking of someone else? Am I being confused? My brain appears to not be quite functioning today.

I remember working on an England team of the Millennium piece in early 90s, can't remember all the names but it definitely included the likes of Danny Hill (Spurs, now a plumber), Jody Morris and Frank Sinclair. Michael Owen was just about the only correct guess.

Check out this graveyard of ambition and unfulfilled dreams.

http://www.rsssf.com/tablese/eng-u21-intres86.html

shawcross (c)

yeah shawcross the obvious one tbh

Goosebumps.

23/05/1990, Aix-en-Provence
FRANCE U21 3-7 ENGLAND U21 [HT
Scorers: Mark Robins 5, Graham Stuart 2

ENGLAND U21:
Carl Mugglestone [Leicester City] [1/0]
Julien James [Luton Town] [1/0]
- (Mark Blake [Aston Villa] [1/0]
Graeme Le Saux [Chelsea] [2/0]
John Ebbrell [c] [Everton] [5/0]
Earl Barrett [Oldham Athletic] [2/0]
David Lee [Chelsea] [1/0]
Graham Stuart [Chelsea] [2/2]
Tim Sherwood [Norwich City] [2/0]
Mark Robins [Manchester United] [2/5]
Ian Olney [Aston Villa] [2/0]
Lee Sharpe [Manchester United] [3/0]

CMUGG

jay mcevely was an england u21 before he switched iirc.

kyle walker will replace g.johnson within 3 years.

has rodwell actually done anything of late? all seems a bit received wisdomish now.

http://techjost.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Ozil.jpg

not a bad effort

ramsey is good at everything but once he leaves this purple patch there isn't really anything exceptional unless he can maybe become a lampard type of late arriving finisher on the reg

wilshere doesn't have the level of playmaking intelligence i thought he did three years ago but he has excellent core strength and developed a useful burst of speed over the first 5/10m which makes him more of a threat from deep

and despite the shawx episode, i think he has lost more of his career to injury than ramsey

if he can develop more of an arteta type of calm possession game (not as the bulk of his game but as a necessary component when the phase of play requires it) and maybe get his right foot up to a level where it can do things other than just support part of his weight, then he will be a very good player

still a level below verratti, gundogan, thiago, pogba

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk207/Sir_Wauwee/drogbagallas.jpg

holy shit

http://itsfootballday.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/stephen-ireland-smoking-hookah-fashion-pants-snakeskin-500x5081.jpg

"Jack Wilshere enters the Januzaj debate: 'Keep England for the English'

Future England captain material I reckon

just posted this on the other thread.

can call him an idiot here too though.

To be fair to the cunt, he didn't ACTUALLY say "England for the English".

You look at em all coming in the ports, the airports, back of trucks from the continent, and you wonder where the room is coming from for them in a three man midfield brian

can see why an Arsenal player wd be worried about notions of Englishness

Were i wilshere id be more worried about the false age on his english passport

To be fair to the cunt, he didn't ACTUALLY say "England for the English".

― Matt DC, Wednesday, 9 October 2013 09:59 (29 minutes ago) Bookmark

yeah i was trying to figure this out... graun are fucking disgraceful if not, like srsly does it get any lower passing off a single quotation mark as a double

wenger: arsenal 'are totally gonna piss the league nae fuckin worries'

arsene wenger has reiterated his beleif that his side can compete for the title

BBC does the same thing, it is unfair. "English people for England - Wilshere" (my quote marks) is their headline, no quotes but still too close to a stock example of racism.

The relevant Wilshere quote is "the only people who should play for England are English people"

this is a really funny debate considering janukazaj has had like 2 good games and isnt eligible (i heard? may be wrong) for like another 5 years and suddenly oh my its a massive thing. shows how fucking horrible the talent pool is that people are splooging for something like this.

wilshere isnt as good as he should have been. its exactly like wenger has got himself the best regen of his fm career but injuries, a shit attitude and a kinda rubbish team around him has let him squander into being a 3 star player instead of zidane. i know the pain well.

wilshere turned out be another joe cole when he could have been another ........ ?

hoddle or gazza? idk never really seen either of them bar some youtube clips

Bit early to be writing the guy off

not writing him off. just glad we have two much better players in his position.

England don't though

wilshere on the field is getting stick that is unwarranted but it's especially peculiar to hear it coming from a gooner

presumably lil jack is no longer twee enough to champion

He is officially a disgusting savage

Not too early to let you know- he's no fuckin hoddle this lad

great shout deems

Involved

So when Cazorla is back fit Wilshere doesn't play? Or do they shove Ramsey back out to the right wing like last year?

There is something very interesting happening to English players under the age of 20. The current generation of 'at-their-peak' players, ie 22-28, has to be among the weakest of all time, Rooney excepted. Not sure any of the rest are even international class, let alone world class. Clunkers all.

But the crop beneath that really look the part. I wonder if this is the result of having spent their entire footballing careers operating within a more continental/progressive framework, whereas previous generations were still very much on the cusp of old vs new methods.

Wilshire has great potential, as does McEachran and Rodwell and there are others. None of them are typical English players - ie, none of them would work in a traditional 4-4-2 almost certainly because they have never played in that formation.

Chelsea are using McEachran in the Pirlo/Alonso role and have basically used him as a replacement for Ballack, which is incredible for a 17-year-old playing for the double winners.

It's obviously incredibly difficult to predict how player will continue to develop, but there's genuine hope for the future here - and also the belief that these players won't get fucked up by the system, because they system/consensus is starting to change with them.

Maybe.

― isn't house rubbish and Pete W mental (Pete W), Thursday, 4 November 2010 12:07 (2 years ago)

Poignant reading this post. Sturridge has come through, what of the others? Could you still put together a promising XI?

Again, I've never said Wilshere is bad. He's just as good as like idk Dembele or whoever. It's just a shame he's become a disgusting savage instead of pushing on past that.

Adam johnson

What would he be worth now had he joined us instead of city

Where would bale be

That is the most half-hearted attempt to shoehorn Spurs into a conversation I've seen in a while.

Wilshere is nothing like Dembele btw.

can see why an Arsenal player wd be worried about notions of Englishness

Remember this?

still better than Joe Hart

There must be a shitload of goalkeepers who qualify under these rules, this discussion followed Cudicini around for ages as well.

i meant wilshere is like dembele in terms of talent, not in terms of style. a 7.5/10 type footballer.

Dembele is theoretically at this peak though

According to those sources close to Januzaj and his parents, Kosovo would be the favoured choice if Kosovo was a recognised FIFA nation and therefore able to play competitive international football. As things stand, however, England is the choice.

thats the daily mail

i'll believe it when i see it

that tecnhnique in quickness for a centre midfielder is so rare

his ordinary level of play in the last months hasn't been that high but he has such a high ceiling if he can get there

http://i.imgur.com/bXlMO50.jpg

separated at birth

future of fitba, explosive squat lil dudes with thick torsos, thick tongues and shit partings

http://i.imgur.com/M6A5gV4.jpg

Dembele is theoretically at this peak though

So much for theory

well my point was that Wilshere can get better. Dembele probably won't

dembele has only been playing central midfield for a couple of years and he is about 26, he can certainly improve his passing range, movement and composure

the whole dembele/wilshere discussion just seems completely strange

i) wilshere is more talented than dembele

ii) dembele is still very talented but his problem has never been his upper level, which was amply demonstrated at old trafford last season, but being consistent and reliable at doing the simple pass and move stuff and blocking channels (which isn't so simple for someone who was playing as a wing forward in holland not that long ago)

iii) they are probably both best playing either box to box in a 433 or more likely as the inventive, driving deeplying midfielder in a 4231 (the set defined between gundogan, vidal and touré) -- both of them have close control, aggression and burst of speed as their best assets: they aren't utterly dissimilar players

iv) wilshere isn't remotely a 7/10 player, unless this is where de rossi is 8/10 and only messi is 10/10: he isn't someone who has found his level as good-not-great; he has unusual raw talent and the questions are about whether he has the temperament, intelligence and injury record to display that consistently