Is the Guardian worse than it used to be?

There's a lot of irritating stuff, yes. My favourite columnist is George Monbiot, by a mile. Something I like about the Independent when I do get it is that its liberalism is less metropolitan and more about the common good. Needless to say, though, the Guardian's series of articles on public service under that very title were awesome.

Today's G2 seems designed to add fuel to my (f)ire: one page of 'Style' after another, including a column on Why We're So Disappointed That Madonna Employs A Stylist.

Also good in Guardian: John Patterson re. cinema.

oh god, ask hadley today is just... tooth-grinding.

"today"

"At what age is a man too old to wear band T-shirts?"

Martin McCall, by email

"About 15 - that young enough for you, Martin? And to follow one rhetorical question with several more, what in God's name is the point of band T-shirts anyway? To show your allegiance to a band? Do you think anyone else cares? To impress onlookers with your esoteric musical knowledge? See previous reply. To make people stare at your bony chest? Again, I refer you to the first answer. To show that you once attended a live gig? Wow, like, a pair of golden headsets to the guy in the Nirvana '91 T-shirt. In case you happen to bump into the lead singer on the street, he sees that the two of you are kindred souls and therefore invites you to join his band and you then go on the road and have all the manly bonding sessions followed by groupies that your heart could desire? OK, I'll give you that one, although this does suggest that you still harbour the fantasy that you might bump into Joey Ramone in Waterstone's.

"As for ladies in band T-shirts, give me a fricking break. First, gals, a badly cut, poorly made, oversized T-shirt is good for nothing other than wearing to bed and the gym. Second, too often women who wear band T-shirts appear to be going for what we shall call Groupie Chic. It is a style amply modelled by Kate Moss in recent years, and can pretty much be summed up as skinny faded black jeans, ankle boots, a ripped band T-shirt and a cropped fur jacket. In other words, a girlified version of Marc Bolan's or Keith Richards' wardrobe, as though the woman has been so busy, um, sleeping on the band bus she hasn't had time to clean her clothes, so she's now wearing ones belonging to her musical companion. This column has no time for such nonsense."

Yeah, because women have *no* interest in music whatsoever except for sleeping with musicians. What CENTURY is this cretin from?

I think I stopped wearing band T-shirts by the time I was 23. It wasn't necessarily a conscious move tho. I doubt I will ever wear one again tho - I guess it seems lame unless it's an old obscure or overlooked thus hip act (even this I dunno about). I don't notice many people over 20 wearing them. Does Matt DC still have that Save Ferris T?

I only want to sleep with musicians if they are hot as they are (their musical ability is pretty irrelevant in fact).

dear teh grauniad - a long time ago/we used to be friends...

It went downhill after I left.

or were you PUSHED?

http://homepage.mac.com/alexinnyc/.Pictures/Photo%20Album%20Pictures/2007-09-02%2015.37.57%20-0700/Image-D15E03FF59A011DC.jpg

heh. (sorry alex, no harm intended)

http://www.abc.net.au/sport/thesportsdesk/images/200607/20060707henrydive_derblog.jpg

xp

i was being harsh really. i don't care what's on other people's t-shirts that much. just trying to work out why i stopped wearing/wouldn't wear band t-shirts myself.

Any t-shirt which isn't plain white clearly sucks that's why.

i couldn't agree less

I still wear band t-shirts if I like the band. Why not? I don't *define* myself or my personality by my music tastes any more, I haven't done that since I was about 18. But that's not the same thing as wearing a band t-shirt.

I suppose the fashion journalist in discussion cannot fathom the idea that clothes are just something you put on, rather than a definition of or statement about your personality.

This is definitely something that happens as you age - or rather, has happened to me as I aged. There's a subtle difference between Statement Clothes and just things you put on.

Guardian editorial worldview circa 2007:

http://www.astucia.co.uk/images/sce/galibier%20tunnel%20_three.jpg

why else would you buy a band t-shirt if not as a statement or definition of personality?

I didn't know it was a band t-shirt okay?

because you're cold xp

In the past I've usually just bought them as a keepsake of a gig I've enjoyed. The piece tracer quotes is idiotic fluff, obv. I'd be embarrased to admit I'd written that.

Because you like the design? Because you like the music? Because it was given to you (this is where most of mine come from)? Because it was a souvenier?

x-post

you wouldn't actually buy a band t-shirt because you liked the design but not necessarily the band tho...would you?

because you like the music = statement/definition of you/your taste

given to you = not you buying

you wouldn't actually buy a band t-shirt because you liked the design but not necessarily the band tho...would you?

No, plus I've only ever bought them @ gigs.

because you like the music = statement/definition of you/your taste

Probably yeah, but w/smaller bands there's also the knowledge that in buying it, yr helping to supposrt the tour.

i actually bought a comets on fire t-shirt solely because the design was so awesome. (it was at a gig, but they hadn't come on stage yet.) then i heard the music and i liked that too. i suppose if i hadn't liked their music, or thought it was boring, it would have posed a problem.

a friend of mine, who shall remain nameless so that alex in nyc doesn't stalk and kill him, bought a huge iron maiden patch when he was 14 and sewed it across the shoulders of his denim jacket. he had never heard a note of iron maiden, but he wound up becoming the biggest iron maiden fan i know, and even sung in a band later, where his vocal style was almost inseparable from bruce dickinson's.

my take on this: do not read hadley freeman.

this resolution made some time ago, stands as strong today as it ever did.

it's a crass and deliberately invidious piece of writing. such an attitude, if sincerely held, could be turned around on pretty much ANY choice of clothing. so forgeddaboudit

the last band t-shirt i bought - robyn!

alan i can't help myself, i know i'm sick and need help.

is there a thread for best band t-shirts? must see

Taste is something that I have. It does not define me. Clothes are something I wear. The statement I am making is "I don't really care about clothes any more."

If I'm going to make a statement about clothes, I'll wear a bright green paisley jacket to a dronerock festival where everyone else is in leather.

I suppose my Hawkwind t-shirt is a statement, it says "ha ha, I'm wearing a Hawkwind t-shirt, I care nothing for fashion, I am wearing the shirt of a band so deeply uncool you can suck my left one because I love them!" But it's certainly not a statement saying that I want to f*ck any of Hawkwind or that I have a musician boyfriend whose Hawkwind t-shirt I'm borrowing, which is the assumption of that article.

> I don't notice many people over 20 wearing them.

*SOBS*

> you wouldn't actually buy a band t-shirt because you liked the design but not necessarily the band tho...would you?

EAR t-shirt with the putney on the front = great. EAR live = terrible. (EAR on CD = ok, plus pram and stereolab were supporting)

"Do you think anyone else cares?"

the core MOTOR of fashion is YES OF COURSE I THINK OTHER PEOPLE CARE THAT I AM WEARING... WHAT'S "IN". no less dumb than wearing something else that forms part of your identity. so it's just a puerile throw away bit of nonsense. heh. fashion in 'being puerile' shocker.

I gave up caring whether I was too old to wear band t-shirts or whatever a long time ago. Really, if you're getting that worked up about what other people are wearing, the joke's on you, I think. To paraphrase - "Do you think anyone else cares?"

Yesterday I wore an X-Ray Spex t-shirt. I am 31. Oh noes.

If a FAC 51 Hacienda T-shirt counts as a band t-shirt, I am wearing one NOW. I am more than 31.

Unless you buy shirts at arena shows or whatever they cost a tenner or less which is cheaper than t-shirts tend to be (aside from plain ones from Primark or something). I guess it bugs fashiony people cos it's fashion for people who don't give a shit about fashion

you wouldn't actually buy a band t-shirt because you liked the design but not necessarily the band tho...would you?

whoa there, people do this All The Time! witness all the motorhead/def leppard/poison tees on sale at top shop/debenhams/whatever.

What's a putney, Andy?

I bought a Mega City Four t-shirt the other week. I bought it cos I like the band and I like their logo, and out of nostalgia.

witness all the motorhead/def leppard/poison tees on sale at top shop/debenhams/whatever

really? since when do those shops sell (official?) band merchandise?

but how do you know people buying them don't like the band (even if it's 'ironic' or just liking the idea OF liking them, if that makes sense) anyway?

i can imagine some people, not just kids or people buying for kids, buy band t-shirts because of the design and without really knowing about the band but can't be that many really. this is even more of a facile 'want to look cool' statement tho isn't it? that sense of knowing what to buy but not really knowing why...

remember the 'little girls wearing Nico 'Chelsea Girl' t-shirt thing (altho i approved of this ha)

Uhm yeah, there were tons of high street chains selling classic rock tees (I presume they just bought a load wholesale).

i figure these are aimed at and bought mainly by teenagers

really? since when do those shops sell (official?) band merchandise?

since AGES, honestly. i doubt your "average" 14-year-old Miss Selfridge customer would have a clue/give a shit who Def Leppard/insert 80s hair metal band here are. it's just a noisy "cool" design that'll make her look a bit like Peaches Geldof or whoever.

I'm sure I remember even Primark licensing some lame/classic 80s band tee designs recently.

and As Matt DC has admitted, sometimes people buy band tees without even realising that's what they are!

nb this whole discussion is clearly on the wrong thread.

Someone was selling MC5 shirts a good few years ago and it was the only place that you could get MC5 shirts so I know loads of people that bought them as they had been desperate for years to get them.
I got mine online but it was probably the same shirt.

a putney

http://www.vintagesynth.com/misc/vcs3.jpg

so called because they were made in putney (not far from you actually, there's a website that gives the actual address of the place they used to make them, cottage industry style, deodor road, sw15).

http://www.ems-synthi.demon.co.uk/snaps/everynun.jpg

Hang on a second, I went to primary school at 49 Deodar Road!!

Oh, I didn't, it was 95-97 Deodar Road (since moved). My best friend at the time lived at 50 Deodar Road, though.

I've got a Synthi t-shirt but my god, I want a t-shirt with that nun on it.

I am currently wearing a T-ahirt of a band that I saw live but didn't like much. It's a pretty design and the band aren't well known enough for many people to even know it's a band T-shirt.

I have had it on since yesterday so should probably take it off soon.

she is assuming that older swing voters in semi-rural northern constituencies are not the people reading her columns, does she think it's all coal miners up there? has she actually thought about this?

she understands how the media works, i assume she doesn't lie awake at night wondering why somebody pays her to share her thoughts about politics

she's performing a part, whether she really believes it or not I don't know, and not sure it matters.

she understands how the media works, i assume she doesn't lie awake at night wondering why somebody pays her to share her thoughts about politics

yeah this was my response too. shes v clearly confortable operating in the media ecosystem. about the only good thing about her is that she serves as a useful bellewether for dogshit opinions you will encounter among supposed liberals. she really is the worst and while i get mildly defensive about US people going “rainy terf island”, which ofc isnt rong - it’s just “other people saying stuff look to yself” irritation - MH really is the best example of that criticism. great vehicle for media nastiness and the way the middle mass coo over her is revolting.

A journalist embarks on a wild good chase that might – or might not – be informative about the male condition

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2026/sep/08/the-castle-by-jon-ronson-review-bizarre-tales-of-modern-masculinity

wtf is a wild good chase?

wild goose chase

grauny old habits

34m ago
14.28 BST
As voters head to the polls for primary elections in New Hampshite, Some Democrats worry the Granite State could become a sleeper risk – a state where Republicans control the legislature but haven’t won a Senate race since 2010, when Kelly Ayotte, the now-governor, captured a seat.

lol good one

Marina Hyde is leaving the Guardian.

It's now 1% better lol

Correct

Leaving to focus on the JKR4PM campaign now that she’s gone off Nigel

Two headlines on the front page of the Guardian website use the phrase "slam dunk". I have to confess I had to Google whether this was a good or bad thing.

A couple of things struck me about The Guardian today. Firstly, they've managed to run no less than four articles about Sydney Sweeney:
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2026/sep/14/sydney-sweeney-prediction-ad-sports
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2026/sep/14/ariarne-titmus-comments-sydney-sweeney-sexualising-womens-sport
https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2026/sep/14/a-double-entendre-in-every-crevice-what-beyond-near-naked-tennis-is-sydney-sweeneys-game
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2026/sep/14/sydney-sweeney-advert-global-backlash-what-women-in-sport-look-like

I'm reminded of the time the newspaper decided not to speculate on Taylor Swift's sexuality by running four articles over the space of two days denying that they were going to speculate about Taylor Swift's sexuality. To make things worse they don't even have a high-resolution gallery of the offending images of Sydney Sweeney, especially they one with her in a basketball hoop. Elsewhere they do have a print-quality image of the cover of Kylie Minogue's Fever, so obviously they can get hold of high-resolution images, what with them being a legitimate former broadsheet.

Secondly I was struck by this article, written by someone who appears to have swallowed a wasp:
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2026/sep/14/dream-uni-bedroom-insta-glow-up

I know we're supposed to play the ball, not the man. But the really does look as if she has swallowed a wasp. I've seen a person swallow a wasp, and they look just like that. Notice how I say "a person", because I'm not sexist.

The article is Your dream university bedroom: how to get that Insta glow-up. Why did it annoy me? I was expecting a load of adverts for £150 soaps and tips on how to shave some money off Le Creuset pots, and also tips on how to turn your student room into a podcasting studio, but to my annoyance the advert is all relatively sensible. So I can't even be angry about it. And that makes me angry.

Guess what Marina Hyde's column today is about?

Khaldoon’s father was assassinated by a group led by Abu Nidal which, according to the CIA, was “the most dangerous and effective of all terrorist groups and the best organized of the radical Palestinian terrorist groups” before the emergence of Hamas. The murder was justified in a phone call saying that the UAE “had expelled Palestinian and Arab residents and was linked with American imperialism”. In essence, they were accused of being too soft on the west, not radical enough for Palestinians.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2026/oct/08/khaldoon-al-mubarak-manchester-city-charges-abu-dhabi

Expelling Arabs from their homes is apparently an ok thing to do as long as the CIA approves.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2026/oct/08/911-uk-security-crisis-threat-liberal-principles-securocracy

The concrete barriers hurriedly going up around Fairford last week may be a harbinger of what is to come: a signal that as the world moves closer to a war footing, our relaxed way of life may have to change.

consent machine goes brrrrr

both Iran and Russia are throttling shipping routes in the strait of Hormuz and Black Sea respectively, with consequences for oil and food prices that are now ringing serious alarm bells within governments

why are Iran doing that Gaby

Some impressive cold war Sinophobe rhetoric too: basically zero evidence given for the characterisation of China as a "hostile nation state",, and evidently the government doesn't think so as the new Chinese super embassy opens in London. Spying? Our allies Israel and the US do this. How many British citizens have been killed by China, as compared to Israel,, within the last few years? Which country has just closed a UK consulate? Which countries have recently made overt threats to the UK?

yeah but red

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2026/oct/16/well-known-individual-tries-to-secure-permanent-injunction-against-guardian-and-itn

like most injunctions, seems utterly contra public interest, this one sounds especially chancer-ish

Hm... shall we speculate about who it is? Probably shouldn't.

Took me 10 seconds to find out tbh.

The power of the internet

oh right I can just check twitter.

oh, him. very old news, but good if he's finally getting some consequences

Kudos to the Guardian photo editor who chose this picture to accompany a story about someone at the Free Speech Union discussing "Sydney Sweeney's assets".

https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/68043c75e21b00b026cd06f6ba2b6bbedbdc4908/838_0_1561_1249/master/1561.jpg

... try that again...

https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/68043c75e21b00b026cd06f6ba2b6bbedbdc4908/838_0_1561_1249/master/1561.jpg?width=1300&dpr=2&s=none&crop=none

Is that Toby Young?

Unfortunately.

At first I thought "haha he's making a grabbing gesture with his hands", then I saw the pencil. I respect The Guardian slightly more for using that photograph. It's a famously humourless newspaper, but obviously at least one employee has managed to avoid the mind-worms.

Trying to read a longer article this morning, the moving ads or something with the coding idk displaced me from where I was about 8 times before I finished it. I think the website is just now unusable.

Increasingly I feel like this with a lot of the internet.