Is the Guardian worse than it used to be?

There's a lot of irritating stuff, yes. My favourite columnist is George Monbiot, by a mile. Something I like about the Independent when I do get it is that its liberalism is less metropolitan and more about the common good. Needless to say, though, the Guardian's series of articles on public service under that very title were awesome.

Today's G2 seems designed to add fuel to my (f)ire: one page of 'Style' after another, including a column on Why We're So Disappointed That Madonna Employs A Stylist.

Also good in Guardian: John Patterson re. cinema.

oh god, ask hadley today is just... tooth-grinding.

"today"

"At what age is a man too old to wear band T-shirts?"

Martin McCall, by email

"About 15 - that young enough for you, Martin? And to follow one rhetorical question with several more, what in God's name is the point of band T-shirts anyway? To show your allegiance to a band? Do you think anyone else cares? To impress onlookers with your esoteric musical knowledge? See previous reply. To make people stare at your bony chest? Again, I refer you to the first answer. To show that you once attended a live gig? Wow, like, a pair of golden headsets to the guy in the Nirvana '91 T-shirt. In case you happen to bump into the lead singer on the street, he sees that the two of you are kindred souls and therefore invites you to join his band and you then go on the road and have all the manly bonding sessions followed by groupies that your heart could desire? OK, I'll give you that one, although this does suggest that you still harbour the fantasy that you might bump into Joey Ramone in Waterstone's.

"As for ladies in band T-shirts, give me a fricking break. First, gals, a badly cut, poorly made, oversized T-shirt is good for nothing other than wearing to bed and the gym. Second, too often women who wear band T-shirts appear to be going for what we shall call Groupie Chic. It is a style amply modelled by Kate Moss in recent years, and can pretty much be summed up as skinny faded black jeans, ankle boots, a ripped band T-shirt and a cropped fur jacket. In other words, a girlified version of Marc Bolan's or Keith Richards' wardrobe, as though the woman has been so busy, um, sleeping on the band bus she hasn't had time to clean her clothes, so she's now wearing ones belonging to her musical companion. This column has no time for such nonsense."

Yeah, because women have *no* interest in music whatsoever except for sleeping with musicians. What CENTURY is this cretin from?

I think I stopped wearing band T-shirts by the time I was 23. It wasn't necessarily a conscious move tho. I doubt I will ever wear one again tho - I guess it seems lame unless it's an old obscure or overlooked thus hip act (even this I dunno about). I don't notice many people over 20 wearing them. Does Matt DC still have that Save Ferris T?

I only want to sleep with musicians if they are hot as they are (their musical ability is pretty irrelevant in fact).

dear teh grauniad - a long time ago/we used to be friends...

It went downhill after I left.

or were you PUSHED?

http://homepage.mac.com/alexinnyc/.Pictures/Photo%20Album%20Pictures/2007-09-02%2015.37.57%20-0700/Image-D15E03FF59A011DC.jpg

heh. (sorry alex, no harm intended)

http://www.abc.net.au/sport/thesportsdesk/images/200607/20060707henrydive_derblog.jpg

xp

i was being harsh really. i don't care what's on other people's t-shirts that much. just trying to work out why i stopped wearing/wouldn't wear band t-shirts myself.

Any t-shirt which isn't plain white clearly sucks that's why.

i couldn't agree less

I still wear band t-shirts if I like the band. Why not? I don't *define* myself or my personality by my music tastes any more, I haven't done that since I was about 18. But that's not the same thing as wearing a band t-shirt.

I suppose the fashion journalist in discussion cannot fathom the idea that clothes are just something you put on, rather than a definition of or statement about your personality.

This is definitely something that happens as you age - or rather, has happened to me as I aged. There's a subtle difference between Statement Clothes and just things you put on.

Guardian editorial worldview circa 2007:

http://www.astucia.co.uk/images/sce/galibier%20tunnel%20_three.jpg

why else would you buy a band t-shirt if not as a statement or definition of personality?

I didn't know it was a band t-shirt okay?

because you're cold xp

In the past I've usually just bought them as a keepsake of a gig I've enjoyed. The piece tracer quotes is idiotic fluff, obv. I'd be embarrased to admit I'd written that.

Because you like the design? Because you like the music? Because it was given to you (this is where most of mine come from)? Because it was a souvenier?

x-post

you wouldn't actually buy a band t-shirt because you liked the design but not necessarily the band tho...would you?

because you like the music = statement/definition of you/your taste

given to you = not you buying

you wouldn't actually buy a band t-shirt because you liked the design but not necessarily the band tho...would you?

No, plus I've only ever bought them @ gigs.

because you like the music = statement/definition of you/your taste

Probably yeah, but w/smaller bands there's also the knowledge that in buying it, yr helping to supposrt the tour.

i actually bought a comets on fire t-shirt solely because the design was so awesome. (it was at a gig, but they hadn't come on stage yet.) then i heard the music and i liked that too. i suppose if i hadn't liked their music, or thought it was boring, it would have posed a problem.

a friend of mine, who shall remain nameless so that alex in nyc doesn't stalk and kill him, bought a huge iron maiden patch when he was 14 and sewed it across the shoulders of his denim jacket. he had never heard a note of iron maiden, but he wound up becoming the biggest iron maiden fan i know, and even sung in a band later, where his vocal style was almost inseparable from bruce dickinson's.

my take on this: do not read hadley freeman.

this resolution made some time ago, stands as strong today as it ever did.

it's a crass and deliberately invidious piece of writing. such an attitude, if sincerely held, could be turned around on pretty much ANY choice of clothing. so forgeddaboudit

the last band t-shirt i bought - robyn!

alan i can't help myself, i know i'm sick and need help.

is there a thread for best band t-shirts? must see

Taste is something that I have. It does not define me. Clothes are something I wear. The statement I am making is "I don't really care about clothes any more."

If I'm going to make a statement about clothes, I'll wear a bright green paisley jacket to a dronerock festival where everyone else is in leather.

I suppose my Hawkwind t-shirt is a statement, it says "ha ha, I'm wearing a Hawkwind t-shirt, I care nothing for fashion, I am wearing the shirt of a band so deeply uncool you can suck my left one because I love them!" But it's certainly not a statement saying that I want to f*ck any of Hawkwind or that I have a musician boyfriend whose Hawkwind t-shirt I'm borrowing, which is the assumption of that article.

> I don't notice many people over 20 wearing them.

*SOBS*

> you wouldn't actually buy a band t-shirt because you liked the design but not necessarily the band tho...would you?

EAR t-shirt with the putney on the front = great. EAR live = terrible. (EAR on CD = ok, plus pram and stereolab were supporting)

"Do you think anyone else cares?"

the core MOTOR of fashion is YES OF COURSE I THINK OTHER PEOPLE CARE THAT I AM WEARING... WHAT'S "IN". no less dumb than wearing something else that forms part of your identity. so it's just a puerile throw away bit of nonsense. heh. fashion in 'being puerile' shocker.

I gave up caring whether I was too old to wear band t-shirts or whatever a long time ago. Really, if you're getting that worked up about what other people are wearing, the joke's on you, I think. To paraphrase - "Do you think anyone else cares?"

Yesterday I wore an X-Ray Spex t-shirt. I am 31. Oh noes.

If a FAC 51 Hacienda T-shirt counts as a band t-shirt, I am wearing one NOW. I am more than 31.

Unless you buy shirts at arena shows or whatever they cost a tenner or less which is cheaper than t-shirts tend to be (aside from plain ones from Primark or something). I guess it bugs fashiony people cos it's fashion for people who don't give a shit about fashion

you wouldn't actually buy a band t-shirt because you liked the design but not necessarily the band tho...would you?

whoa there, people do this All The Time! witness all the motorhead/def leppard/poison tees on sale at top shop/debenhams/whatever.

What's a putney, Andy?

I bought a Mega City Four t-shirt the other week. I bought it cos I like the band and I like their logo, and out of nostalgia.

witness all the motorhead/def leppard/poison tees on sale at top shop/debenhams/whatever

really? since when do those shops sell (official?) band merchandise?

but how do you know people buying them don't like the band (even if it's 'ironic' or just liking the idea OF liking them, if that makes sense) anyway?

i can imagine some people, not just kids or people buying for kids, buy band t-shirts because of the design and without really knowing about the band but can't be that many really. this is even more of a facile 'want to look cool' statement tho isn't it? that sense of knowing what to buy but not really knowing why...

remember the 'little girls wearing Nico 'Chelsea Girl' t-shirt thing (altho i approved of this ha)

Uhm yeah, there were tons of high street chains selling classic rock tees (I presume they just bought a load wholesale).

i figure these are aimed at and bought mainly by teenagers

really? since when do those shops sell (official?) band merchandise?

since AGES, honestly. i doubt your "average" 14-year-old Miss Selfridge customer would have a clue/give a shit who Def Leppard/insert 80s hair metal band here are. it's just a noisy "cool" design that'll make her look a bit like Peaches Geldof or whoever.

I'm sure I remember even Primark licensing some lame/classic 80s band tee designs recently.

and As Matt DC has admitted, sometimes people buy band tees without even realising that's what they are!

nb this whole discussion is clearly on the wrong thread.

Someone was selling MC5 shirts a good few years ago and it was the only place that you could get MC5 shirts so I know loads of people that bought them as they had been desperate for years to get them.
I got mine online but it was probably the same shirt.

a putney

http://www.vintagesynth.com/misc/vcs3.jpg

so called because they were made in putney (not far from you actually, there's a website that gives the actual address of the place they used to make them, cottage industry style, deodor road, sw15).

http://www.ems-synthi.demon.co.uk/snaps/everynun.jpg

Hang on a second, I went to primary school at 49 Deodar Road!!

Oh, I didn't, it was 95-97 Deodar Road (since moved). My best friend at the time lived at 50 Deodar Road, though.

I've got a Synthi t-shirt but my god, I want a t-shirt with that nun on it.

I am currently wearing a T-ahirt of a band that I saw live but didn't like much. It's a pretty design and the band aren't well known enough for many people to even know it's a band T-shirt.

I have had it on since yesterday so should probably take it off soon.

Looks like the writer stole every single one of those observations from the Very British Problems account.

One or two at most, this feels a different species of evil.

What's weird about it is for parts of it I thought they are trying to do some content for like quite young people or students, but then other references are more for people in their forties.

Either way it is one of the worst things I've ever read.

well the good news is that maybe i'm not british after all

key Britishcore experience = reading the first couple of lines of a Graun lifestyle piece and thinking "you pitiful twat"

Nailed it.

Haven't read the Britishcore article but was irritated by this piece of blatant and shameless whataboutery Here’s the real ‘enigma’ about Charlotte Owen: why we still take sexist gossip so seriously

I'm currently bunging the Guardian £10 a month as a supporter , but being sorely tested.

tbf before everything was online forever there were bad throwaway articles like this all the time even in the august pages of the Guardian Guide it’s just that no one remembers them or can link to them in disgust

I'm shocked at how bad Marina Hyde's Charlotte Owen article is:

Yet not one person has produced a single nano-particle of evidence for their theories, while indications that they’re nonsense pile up. Consider the pictures of Owen at Carrie Johnson’s soirees. Seriously, Carrie’s the final boss of this game. She saw off master strategist Dominic Cummings (Carl von Clownewitz). Pretty sure she’d make light work of Charlotte if there were anything to worry about.

jesus christ I assumed you were all exaggerating about that britcore shite.
"British problems Twitter" reads like Shakespeare compared to this.

it's like 43-year-olds forced themselves to make up "student in-jokes" then explain them

125 quote tweets and like 10 likes on the tweet about it, incredible work and you assume that’s only going to increase as people see it

This is so fucking bad. It’s like one of those Facebook memory lane pages where the content is like 75% fluffy nostalgia about banalities and 25% open white supremacy crossed with, as people have already said, some of the really bad British Twitter accounts. Don’t forget Queen_UK as another peddler of this shite.

24. Getting into a physical fight over which is better: Scampi Fries or Bacon Fries.

26. Having a 10-minute discussion about whether the sound of pigeons cooing is “a banger”.

I actually really like this sequence of three because you can feel the author contemplating the pointlessness of his own existence

66. “I want a kebab!”

67. Wearing “jeans and a nice top” to a funeral.

68. Dressing as the “beast from the east” for Halloween.

78. Knowing the heights, weights and birth signs of your football team’s entire first team squad, but not the date of your own wedding anniversary.

23. Leaving a baby shower, gunning your Fiat Punto down the road, then turning to your mate and saying, “So, not to be catty, but …”

Baby showers are British these days? I don't know anyone with babies so I don't know tbf.

key Britishcore experience = reading the first couple of lines of a Graun lifestyle piece and thinking "you pitiful twat"

― Yuwen Hu's army (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 18 September 2024 06:53 (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

'shit chat on an extremely public scale'

xp
It's not a thing of my generation ime, first I heard it irl was when my younger brother and his gf had one about 15 years ago

Wonder how much of this was auto-generated via AI prompts.

Britain, the only place that enjoys kebabs, football and sarcastic applause over broken glasses.

17. Remembering your school “houses” were all named after either famous colonisers or famous murderers

So did I but we still had houses! Much to everyone's incomprehension. Ours were named after birds - the feathered variety, in case there's any Guardian writers present.

"applause over broken glasses"

this is standard amongst kitchen/waiting staff all over the world iirc

List 5 of the greatest manifestations of Britishcore, in a humorous style that reflects the tone of cheeky British publications like LadBible

ChatGPT said:
ChatGPT
Absolutely! Here are five cheeky manifestations of Britishcore, served with a side of humor:

Tea Time: Forget your fancy lattes! The British know that the true fuel of civilization is a good cuppa. Nothing says “I’m a refined human being” quite like cradling a mug of tea while pretending to care about the weather. Spoiler: It’s always drizzling!

The Royal Family: They’re like the Kardashians but with crowns! Whether you love them or think they’re a bit outdated, you can’t help but tune in for the wedding dramas, baby announcements, and that time Harry decided he fancied a life without the family drama. Cheers to family bonding over fancy hats!

Fish and Chips: The culinary masterpiece that combines deep-frying with... more deep-frying! It’s like the British answer to the question, “How can we make everything better?” Plus, it comes with the side benefit of a heartwarming conversation about how it was “better back in the day” when the fish was actually fresh.

The Weather: Ah, the British obsession with weather! You can always rely on a good chat about rain, sun, or the bizarre phenomenon of “four seasons in one day.” Nothing breaks the ice quite like complaining about the weather—it's practically our national sport!

Pub Culture: The British invented a place where you can sip on a pint while discussing absolutely nothing and everything at once. It’s where “just one drink” turns into an existential crisis over who’s winning the Premier League. Cheers to that, mate!

There you go! Classic Britishcore with a cheeky twist!

List 5 of the greatest manifestations of Britishcore, in a morose, bathetic, deadpan style. One sentence per manifestation.

ChatGPT said:
ChatGPT

The Rain: A perpetual drizzle that serves as a reminder of life’s relentless mediocrity, dampening spirits and umbrellas alike.

The Queue: An orderly line of resigned souls, each silently acknowledging that waiting is perhaps the only true certainty in a chaotic world.

British Comedy: A blend of irony and awkwardness, where laughter often masks the underlying existential dread of daily existence.

The Royal Family: A dynasty steeped in tradition, their gilded lives starkly contrasting the drudgery of everyday struggles for the rest of us.

Fish and Chips: A battered reminder that even comfort food can’t escape the inevitability of grease and regret.

xxxxxp "I want a kebab" is a quote from Peep Show, listed directly after "can quote every episode of Peep Show" (probably the only one of these shameful, shameful afflictions I am guilty of, ha)

Also nobody has to organise a WAHEYYYYY when a glass breaks in a pub; the WAHEYYYYY is spontaneous.

*glass breaks*

"Right, shall we organize a wahey?"
"What?"
"A wahey."
"What for?"
"That glass that was just broken."
"Somebody's already done a wahey."
"Yes, but that wasn't organized was it?"
"What difference does it make?"
"Wahey's have to be organized, that's the British way."
"What?"

*glass breaks"

"Oh bugger, now another one's broken."

Obviously I am (thankfully) not British and we have our own problems with cultural memification but like, who is this for?

Is it too easy to say “the worst cunts”

Yes but it’s true

I did ctrl f 'queue' on this article - I was shocked.

tbf before everything was online forever there were bad throwaway articles like this all the time even in the august pages of the Guardian Guide it’s just that no one remembers them or can link to them in disgust

― Humanitarian Pause (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 18 September 2024 08:53 (four hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

the first thing I thought when I looked at this was that it reminded me of the stuff in g2 and the guide that I'd see when I used to buy the physical paper regularly 10-15 years ago, really feels like something from the Keep Calm And Carry On era

xp lack of pissweak bunting chat also notable but as gyac says there’s obv a whole ecosystem of this shit designed to amuse the lamest people on the planet, this is just weirdly, somehow, even worse than the usual