Chicago: customers are advised to allow extra travel time

thanks! I'm not actually done with school (because, seriously, I will never be done with school) but at least I'm done with everything but the dissertation.

yeah, I really loved Knocked Up even though there's definitely some feminist brouhaha to be raised there. I think the thing is, what Judd Apatow is invested in is the way men get along and women always become secondary + also, inasmuch as his movies reflect the ways groups of men think about women they are sometimes upsetting.

xposts dude, this is totally what ILX has been missing

Wow. Jenny and Jeff's pics of Colorado are...rad-o. It reminds me of my teen years in deepest Montana.

It also puts me in mind of the joys of low humidity!

Okay, Jenny, since you're here I'm going to post this.

Further thoughts on Knocked Up and contemporary movies like it:

David Denby had this article in the New Yorker sort of ruefully critiquing Knocked Up on the quite solid grounds of its inadequate characterization of Katherine Heigl's character. (I hate David Denby, but he was right about that.) But then he went on to say something's gone missing from the romantic comedy since the 30s and 40s (I mean, that argument is nothing new) and all the comedies he cited involved a strong-willed female character bracing at the institutionalized inequality of her moment. The problem he seemed to identify with modern movies involving relations between the sexes is that the female characters tend to have their shit together but concomitantly not to be fully-realized characters in the way, say, Katherine Hepburn was in many many movies. I was discussing this with a friend and she burst out with, "that's because no one knows what a woman IS when she's not being oppressed!" which seems sort of right and relevant.

I think that he's making movies about man-boys who are afraid of vaginas.

I agree. I don't think our statements contradict each other.

As for the crowning scene... I think they left it in because it's the big comedy gross-out pay off scene, the vaginal equivalent of Ben Stiller's balls caught in his zipper. If they were so interested in veracity, they could have: 1) had the female lead actually contemplate terminating her pregnancy; 2) used the word "abortion; or 3) showed a sex scene in which the female lead took off her bra (but of course, that would require the sex scenes to be less like something a bumbling man child would imagine and look more like, well, sex).

I think Apatow is just (another in a long line of) male POV comedy directors. His movies are funnier than the Something About Mary/Kingpin/Dumb and Dumber train wrecks of the past, but he's not really breaking any new ground with his cinematic angle (and in some ways (masturbation is gross and sex should wait until marriage, ie) he's regressing substantially).

Although I'm confident in asserting that Superbad is a step forward from Losing It. So he's got that going for him.

xp - HS, YES! And I think the way the female characters are most often not fully realized is in their relationships with men. It's like this underlying message to the male audience from the male directors (and a subtler and more damaging message to the female audience) that no matter how together a woman may look, she's still enough of an emotional wreck to keep some unemployed stoner's baby, even if it totally ruins her promising career (which in Knocked Up it didn't, which is another HUGE problem I had with the movie but that's another conversation). So this gives men hope (together-looking women are still dominatable in some way) and women a message (you really aren't that together, so go get into an unfulfilling relationship). Your friends comment sounds pretty solid to me. Patriarchy! You're soaking in it!

xp to Jesse - the lack of humidity was awes. We went biking in 90 degree heat and it was really... no big deal!

I'm going to go throw a can of Campbel's through Jesse's window now.

guh, that would require leaving the apartment.

I think another reason I'm inclined to cut Apatow some slack, which may be insidious, is that he's a lot more aware of gender + sexuality as an ideology than, like, the Farrelly Brothers. (My favorite scene in 40 y.o. virgin is the "you know how I know you're gay?" scene with Rudd + Rogen (totally the Hepburn and Tracy of the NEW MILLENIUM!)) But you're right, one can be aware that gender is constructed and create male characters who aren't huge assholes and still create movies with a lot of retrograde gender baggage.

Holy moly, I just read that Curtis Hanson (of Wonder Boys, 8 Mile, L.A. Confidential, etc.) directed Losin' It.

Jenny, skip Superbad and rent Laurel Canyon instead.

http://www.postersnthings.com/posters/little_darlings.jpg

Don't forget, there was equality in the teen-sex romp in 1981.

I mean, that's the thing. the romance of Knocked Up is the one between Paul Rudd and Seth Rogen, because when heat isn't being generated out of overt sexism, like it was in the 30s and 40s, women just drop off the radar as interesting characters. I guess I think it's kind of exciting from an artistic perspective, because it's uncharted territory. some directors who are invested in female characters need to get on this, I guess.

Oh dear. It's too late to call in to work. Seafood gourmands, prepare to risk the crud.

I don't think I can think straight enough to respond intelligently to anything anyone's saying, except that the bra-on sex thing really bugs the FUCK out of me in a movie. They do it either to preserve a rating or because the actor with her bra on does not wish to show boobs. In this case I think it was the latter.

Also annoying: a morning-after scene in which both characters are in their underwear.

also, yeah, Jenny, Apatow can be weirdly puritanical about sex. that was true about 40 y.o. virgin, too. the "freaky" chick really was represented as beyond the pale.

The romance in Superbad is between the 2 main male characters too. But it's also about moving beyond male bonding. I can't say much more without spoilering.

In Superbad the str8-male-male romance was fucking over the top, actually.

The credits sequence is FUCKING awesome, with Cera and whatchacallhim dancing in 70s-ish silhouette with funk music playing.

to the extent that contemporary romantic comedy is quippy and good in the way Philadelphia Story was, I think it's always straight-male-to-male romantic comedy.

(I think Denby's disapproval of that trend in contemporary movies had a whiff of homosexual panic around it.)

I can't believe you all watch that sexist filth when you could be enjoying the egalitarian Trapped in the Closet.

Some one convince me to go running today.

yeah, someone convince me, too.

<i>...when heat isn't being generated out of overt sexism, like it was in the 30s and 40s, women just drop off the radar as interesting characters. guess I think it's kind of exciting from an artistic perspective, because it's uncharted territory. some directors who are invested in female characters need to get on this, I guess.</i>

I think these kinds of stories and movies are being made all the time (of the once I've seen in the past few weeks <i>Once</i> and <i>Before Sunset</i> come to mind. Maybe there's a new model for the romantic comedy out there that hasn't been made yet. It's just that these movies aren't going to be summer blockbusters.

Though, you know, <i>The Breakfast Club</i> kind of pulled this off, as far as a Hollywood movie targeted to mall kids.

Ooh, look at all those pretty attempts at tagging italics.

I would love to go running. I can't wait till I can again. Jeff, horseshoe: run! Run while you can! For tomorrow you might have no legs!

that's true, Eric, maybe I'm just talking about an outdated model of movie. but Before Sunset isn't really a romantic comedy in my mind, just a romantic movie. maybe it's the comedy where the conservatism enters. also, don't really think of TBC as a romantic comedy.

Yeah, I started thinking about movies in general more than outright romantic comedies. The comedies will always have men and women with hang-ups, but it's hard to know what would be a new way to tell a story about those hang-ups in a way that was both satisfying and innovative.

Superbad has a really interesting relationship at its center, and its not between a woman a man, it's between two high school boys. Ebert says: "In its very raunchiness, it finds truth, because if you know nothing about sex, how can you be tasteful and sophisticated on the subject?" The Seth character is gross (and funny) about "getting some vadge", but of course he has never had sex. The Evan (George Michael) character is more respectful, but he turns "respectful" into its own fetish. There's a great sequence where he forces himself to get drunk just to keep up, and then when he gets to the girl, she wants him to drink more. He makes a slurry toast to "respect for women." The movie never for a second makes adolescent sex look any less awful and awkward than you remember it.

Don't believe the previews, Jenny, this movie is great.

Not exactly related, but sort of:

One of the trainees at the restaurant saw his training server put the bill down in between a man and a woman, and he called her on it, saying, asking her why she didn't put it in front of the man. She explained that females pay as often as males, and that especially at lunch, it is business, not a date, and that makes it even more likely that the woman will pay.

He argued with her, saying that even at a business lunch the woman should never pay. Then he asked her which side of the bed she slept on, near the wall or on the outside. She said slept by the wall, which he explained was because the man always sleeps on the outside to protect the woman from intruders.

Later I heard him asking the other males if they would ever expect a woman to pay, and when they said, sure, why not, he said, "Guys, guys, come on. I know you're supposed to say that because of liberal feminists rights (his exact words) but be serious! The guy always pays!"

What's weird is that he was an experienced server. So for years he had been dropping the check smack in front of the man.

His protests lasted for a couple of shifts and he wouldn't let it drop, and he caught a lot of shit for it. He quit before his training was up.

Ebert also pint out that the filthy language is barely hiding an awful longing and desperation, but the difference with this movie is that it knows how awful it is. It's not "Revenge of the Nerds." It's a lot lot smarter than that.

great moment: Michael Cera (George Michael) is with a girl who's determined to fuck him. But the way that's handled is very not-teen-comedy... you get the sense of her self esteem problems and her pressure to have sex at any cost. George Michael is very uncomfortable with this way of losing his virginity, as well he should be.

Girl: "I'm so wet!"
Cera: "Yeah, they said that would happen in health class..."

You have to see it, I guess, but it made the theater I was in laugh enough that I missed the next 30 seconds of dialogue.

That happened a lot. It made the movie seem lush and verdant with comedy since they had enough funny that they could afford to throw in lines that would be lost in the wake of a big laugh.

There was a fucking asshole behind me who was compelled to say things like, "What a fucking pussy! Just fuck her, faggot!" And when the guys were bonding while drunk I thought he was going to jump out of his seat as he said, "Oh damn! They're faggots! What the fuck are they doing??"

he was otm. There is nothing more gay than two straight adolescent best friends.

except for, maybe, gay people.

http://us.movies1.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/new_line_cinema/the_lord_of_the_rings__the_two_towers/_group_photos/elijah_wood3.jpg

Lord of the Rings is all about leaving the homosocial bonds of adolescence for pretty girls.

http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/0a/a2/060e224b9da09461c73da010._AA240_.L.jpg

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0553280414.01.LZZZZZZZ.gif

you are all otm

so...we were thinking about seeing 'knocked up' tonight. am i going to hate it? this thread has made me wonder if i'll find it annoying, although i've been trying to skim so i don't see any spoilers.

http://archive.salon.com/ent/movies/review/2005/01/11/harold_kumar/story.jpg

You know there's a H&K II, right?

I missed the preview, but Courtney said they go to Amsterdam.

Please, why would I not know that?

They try to go to Amsteram

http://www.channel4.com/film/media/film/2l/C/cannonball_run_2_lg_01.jpg

Hi guys.

the man always sleeps on the outside to protect the woman from intruders.

I sleep on the outside. I handle the intruders, and Jeff handles the under-the-bed monsters, which come up from the side closest to the wall.

Collette, I don't know you, but Knocked Up annoyed me. To be fair, though, it also made me LOL a lot (the Paul Rudd (who I know now is not Paul Riser)/curly haired guy relationship (which, right on HS, it is the total focus of the romantic comedy in JA's movies) was truly hilarious). So I guess it depends on how analytical you're feeling. Maybe get really drunk first. That's just good advice generally.

Also, Collette, hi. You've met my husband (Jeff) but not me since I was all studying and stuff when you all went out. I look forward to meeting you one day.

Hi Dan Martin.

I think I want to do something. I don't know what, though. I'm antsy and borderline depressed but I can't put my finger on why.

Maybe all the air show noise is unearthing subconscious childhood fears of nuclear attacks.

Actually I think it's because I am faced (again, god) with the old "climb on the food obsession/WW/deprivation bandwagon and fit into that suit" (this will be the third time I've outgrown and then re-fit into that fucking thing) or "just be fat and buy a new one, already" dilemma. It's not helping much that I'm hungry for lunch.