Sea Devils And Die: GeroniMoffat's Doctor Who In The 2010s

It felt after watching the last two episodes like a cold shower. We went back to a very twee and concise story line. I'm not too bothered by the massive loopholes, but did find myself constantly trying to spot answers to the questions left unanswered, which kind of spoilt it in a way. Still, I like the concept of space pirates! It wasn't a terrible episode.

thought it was a just about passable filler episode apart from the tedious overdone oh no rory might die (again) bit and yeah What happened to the pirate who got cut by Toby?

Potential missed with space pirates concept but nice to see the cap'n in the TARDIS (are they going for one guest passenger a week?)

Aw come on it wasn't that bad. Quite liked the gesture towards Dr Who as Hornblower type. Sure was a frivolous episode, but it was fun enough. Was kinda hoping Rory wd die, mind. Doc could only heal anything that looked like damage. It wasn't that good I suppose, but for something to come back to after the pub, it served.

how could she cure the boy of TB but not cure the alium captain of a simple cold?

also not entirely convinced that the surface of the sea is the source of "a perfect reflection," even in becalming conditions

v v poor script editing to have one freudian joke about the Cap'n having a small willy, on the gangplank, then another one about him having nothing to worry about, dicksizewise, amidships a few minutes later. this was not much allayed by the Doctor referring again to the second one later and saying he didn't mean it.

still! I wasn't expecting anything from this ep, and it was probably fun enough for kiddies, so I'm happy to twiddle my thumbs plotwise until the next Moffatt story.

You guys! Kenny from Press Gang is the boatswain <3

Didnt enjoy that at all, really. Everything felt very forced and cold and herky-jerky, like a party where everyone is pretending to have fun. And the story didnt make any sense. Boo. But yay Kenny the Boatswain

I watched it with a bunch of mates, and kept saying that it was kenny from press gang! Nobody believed me, thanks for confirmation!

As soon as I saw him I knew I recognised him, but it took a while to surface, lol

What makes me laugh is that he has acted on different stuff, but he will always be kenny from press gang. God, I loved that show!

Oh god me too. Worshipped that show. I still squee over Dexter Fletcher & he is hella old now!

Despite my nitpick upthread I thought it was an ok episode, throwaway silly fun but fun all the same. Although I did almost throw my guitar at the screen after the rory resuscitation scene.

Daft filler is just as much part of Doctor Who as the season-plot-type episodes. This wasn't an exceptional example -- Hugh B didn't look he was having much fun (where was the ham?) -- but still so, so much better than Doctor's Daughter/Fear Her etc. etc.

I liked the e-tard reference point. "Everything brilliant", "music turns them into fools"

That was some rotten CPR too. She didn't seal his nose, her compressions were rubbish, and she gave it, what, a minute before she gave up and started crying? I like to think my loved ones would try a bit harder than that.

Way too much sonic screwdriver action. And Rory-death is getting way too kenny-from-south-park. Meh episode after the top form of the first two. And aye, wouldn't want Amy as my designated first aider.

much prefer rory in superhuman heroic mode (guarding amy for a 1000 years) than damsel in distress role

it was basically flagged up as filler at the end of the last ep, you get what you pay for sort of thing

katerine jenkins looking different

I have no problem with fillers...but the mere fact of it being a filler ep isnt the problem, nor a good enough explanation of why its okay...it was clumsy and hamhanded, and I maintain poorly written. They introduced the curse & the siren too quickly, and so the "mystery" of it got old by the halfway mark ....i didnt care abt Capt Bonneville or his son, and omg the siren's true purpose was a big eyeroll.

though not caring abt Capt Bonneville is not to say I didnt like him bc oh I do <3

I did love the ending where they're now pirates in space.

god this was the stupidest episode of the moffett era so far, i think. nothing to redeem it except for like two seconds of space pirates at the end. also, most unbelievable pirates since douglas fairbanks.

Captain's son, I expect, will be able to shoot lasers out of his eyes sometime in the near-future.

That was some rotten CPR too. She didn't seal his nose, her compressions were rubbish, and she gave it, what, a minute before she gave up and started crying? I like to think my loved ones would try a bit harder than that.

Isn't there a risk of actually cracking ribs during proper chest compressions? But yeah, Rory was all, "I want you to do it because I know you'll never give up on me." And, as you noted, after a minute, she gives up on him.

Rubbish pirates, yeah. Rubbish Siren as well - too perfume ad/Muse album cover - but then I don't really get the fascination with Lily Cole.

god this was the stupidest episode of the moffett era so far, i think.

Wasn't great, wasn't anywhere near as bad as the Van Gogh episode. Can't muster up much other than 'meh' really, quite slow pacing I thought. Next week's looks intruiging.

Why didn't you like Vincent and the Doctor?

And Rory-death is getting way too kenny-from-south-park.

Bahahahaha

I couldn't believe a nurse was so bad at giving CPR instructions. "ABC, Amy – airway, breathing, circulation" w/a little explication takes as long to say as "I know you have seen it on TV a thousand times and also I know you will never give up and also also I wuv you!" Also lol at how fast she did in fact give up before he was like 'fuck, better start gasping for air I guess, she's started with the waterworks.'

rory rory are you ok?

rory rory are you ok?

Am lolling heavily here - pretty sure I'm not the only one who over-performed "baby, baby - are you OK?" to my classmates. We were pretty much trying to top each other in the name of melodramatic subversion.

I don't think anything could be worse than the Vincent Van Gogh episode. Rubbish monster, rubbish plot, rubbish script, rubbish acting, and truly the most hideously appalling music choice in a vile attempt to stir emotion. The only emotion it stirred in me was repulsion.

she gave it, what, a minute before she gave up and started crying? I like to think my loved ones would try a bit harder than that.

It's TV. Did you really want a 70 minute episode with 25 minutes of CPR?

Meh episode. So many cuts that they actually managed to confuse themselves enough to lose a pirate.

Actually, 25 minutes of CPR would have been preferable to 15 minutes of infernal bloody Murray Gold heavenly voice crap. But I'd rather they not have included any CPR at all if they were just going to do it so shittily.

Isn't there a risk of actually cracking ribs during proper chest compressions?

The risk is not *that* great. Also, as the instructor on my recent first aid course pointed out, would you rather be dead, or alive with a cracked rib?

but it's always done that way - even in LOST with an actual doctor doing the reviving no-one ever got more than a couple of minutes of Jack-hammer.

would you rather be dead, or alive with a cracked rib?

Well, the real question is to ask Arthur Davill whether he wants to be on the receiving end of authentic-looking chest compressions with possibly cracked ribs, or Internet people making fun of Amy Pond.

a couple of minutes of Jack-hammer

There *was* that one episode of House M.D. where they gave a guy CPR for 3 1/2 hours (not on screen of course).

i just feel like during the RTD era there was a big emphasis on the universe-as-circus aspect of the show; incredible, gorgeous, huge, boundless, teeming with life, bizarre, a little scary, and with the doctor as – say – p.t. barnum dragging us from sight to sight. the moffett eps during the first 4 seasons were a welcome respite; a breather and a palate cleanser between gobs and gobs of glorious hugeness and overblown spectacle. since Moff has taken the reins, however, i'm beginning to realize that i miss the hyperbolic pinwheeling about the universe, and sometimes wish for an episode that was just a little more ... majestic

Basically it wasn't camp enough to be a pirate episode.

I liked this episode, and I like that it wasn't yer classic swashbuckling nonsense. The ghost-ship twist was excellent, and the revelation that the siren wasn't evil was good too (although her nightmare-inducingly nasty look didn't quite mesh with that). I didn't mind the 45 second of CPR because screen time doesn't have to equal actual time (especially when it can harm the drama/tension) – imagine if she had spend fully two minutes blowing air into his lungs.

So here's me completely uninterested, not intending to watch this year at all, three episodes in and loving the taste of this hat.

lily cole's expression at the end reminded me of the hologram alien from mission to mars

next week's sounds great on paper, but why was it moved forward from its original place in the second half of the season?

however, i'm beginning to realize that i miss the hyperbolic pinwheeling about the universe, and sometimes wish for an episode that was just a little more ... majestic

if there's a way to do this without making it about either planet earth of the entire universe being on the brink of extinction then yes, but the latter plot points can be rested for a while yet imo (altho too bad in a way that "the darkness" probably can't come back)

It's TV. Did you really want a 70 minute episode with 25 minutes of CPR?

Shouldn't be beyond a tv writer to convey passage of time and application of effort without necessarily showing it. I still kind of don't buy Amy's relationship with Rory, she seems to give up on him or ignore him or just treat him like a mate until the script calls for her to be all love-of-his-life to sort out some peril. Though when your partner has stood by you for 2000 years, it's kind of hard to measure up to that level of devotion.

This was far from the biggest problem with this episode, though, and next week's looks better.

xp Be careful what you wish for...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRYNYb30nxU

why was it moved forward from its original place in the second half of the season?

Budget? Maybe the shoot was in the can but post on some other episode would have blown the budget, or maybe I'm talking shit.

xxp there's also the possibility that Amy doesn't get how long one has to do CPR (she's a kissogram ffs) and the Doctor was maybe a bit knackered from all the other stuff that had just happened. I dunno.

why was it moved forward from its original place in the second half of the season?

I'm hoping because it's really good, and they want to restore confidence after that lacklustre pirates episode.

It's weird that, given how good I think Moffatt's writing is, he seems unable to detect dud-ness in other writers. This one, and the Silurian 2-parter last year, just seem as though, even on paper, he would have known there wasn't enough THERE for them to really work.

It made more sense for Russell T Davies to let other bodgy scripts in, since his own stuff was all over the shop.

Oh good, I missed a Silurian two-parter. Excellent.

next week's sounds great on paper, but why was it moved forward from its original place in the second half of the season?

it was never in the second half of this season - it was in the second half of LAST season, and had to be moved back because they ran out of budget to do it that year. Gaiman's talked of having to rewrite it to have an alive Rory in it.

I did love the ending where they're now pirates in space.

with dude "driving the ship" by sitting there holding a COMPLETELY IMMOBILE steering column!

sorry yeah i think the Gatiss one was pushed to the second half because it was actually this pirate one that was moved forward, my mistake (it's one per week minimum ppl).

he seems unable to detect dud-ness in other writers

no less than RTD i think. the other problem is that no other writer is really challenging him the way he did with RTD for best episodes. think the best non-Moffat episode since he took over is actually Simon Nye's (Amy's Choice) but will be surprised if he does another.

in DW Confidential Moffat is pretty blasé about it being a formulaic episode ("If we're gonna do pirates of course we have to have..." proceeds to list all the cliches as if this were way more than important than the story being interesting and coherent enough)

Yeah--my favourite non-Moffats of last series were Simon Nye's and 'The Lodger', both of which were also good in that they weren't formulaic "turn-up-on-spaceship/in-history, find-the-monster, beat-the-monster, leave" stories

^^ on the Venusian hyper-credits

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Media/Pix/pictures/2011/5/6/1304694063880/Doctor-Who-007.jpg

vs.

http://www.vigyan.com/%7Eblbates/star_trek/voyager/doctor.gif

no less than RTD i think.

Chinball's was the only truly dire one last year I think. And even then the first half was 1000x better than his RTD-overseen episodes (42! Cypberwoman!). Eps like this pirate one and the WWII Daleks seem to come from Moffatt going "let's just let a big silly romp through now and again for the littlies" - they stand out as stupider than they otherwise would because he throws so much complicated forward-plotting and grown-up concern into most* of his own eps.

*The Beast Below excepting from the rule here

ugh cyberwoman was bloody awful

Could they just do one damn episode where they go to small country town and prevent the library from being closed down by doing a fundraiser or finding buried treasure? This shit is good, but so exhausting.

with dude "driving the ship" by sitting there holding a COMPLETELY IMMOBILE steering column!

everything is touch sensitive in the future, duh.