Mystery Science Theater 3000: C/D, S/D.

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I dunno if they actually mean DVD-style commentary or the brief introductions that Mike gave on the previous set -- I sorta assume the latter.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 17 January 2004 06:00 (twenty years ago) link

Hope "Hobgoblins" is on it. Or "Merlin's Shop of Mystical Wonders". I've always wanted to see "Attack of the Eye Creatures" on DVD as well.

latebloomer (latebloomer), Saturday, 17 January 2004 06:11 (twenty years ago) link

Something tells me this might be another exclusively Sci-Fi Channel box. I can't remember where I read it, but I seem to recall someone saying that basically all the Comedy Central episodes that had legal clearance to put out on home video have all been released already.(Can't imagine who would be sitting on the rights to some of those titles, though.)

Eric H. (Eric H.), Saturday, 17 January 2004 06:13 (twenty years ago) link

Well the thing with the Comedy Channel ones is that they had all been released by Rhino anyway on VHS, so in effect what happened was a porting over of everything (there's still one that hasn't been, The Gunfighter). It's likely though that indeed no more legal clearances have been/could be arranged -- and my further guess is that since MST3K has turned out to provide a reasonable enough profit for Rhino [they've been among the company's regular top selling DVDs for a couple of years now] that various rights holders could be holding out for more cash in some cases as well.

I have no problem with more SciFi era stuff, but a box covering the shortened season seven -- say Night of the Blood Beast, Deathstalker, Escape 2000 and Laserblast if it could only be four movies -- would be spiff.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 17 January 2004 06:21 (twenty years ago) link

Anyway, info on the fifth box set is out, from mst3kinfo.com:

Mystery Science Theater 3000 Collection Volume 5
We have more information about Volume 5 of Rhino Home Video's "Mystery Science Theater 3000 Collection" series. The release date is March 9th. It will feature episodes 821- TIME CHASERS, 908- THE TOUCH OF SATAN, 1003- MERLIN'S SHOP OF MYSTICAL WONDERS and 1006- BOGGY CREEK II.


Special features on the set will include introductions by Mike Nelson (similar to those in the last set, but Mike tells us they will be somewhat longer), full-length interviews with Mike and Kevin Murphy, and the original trailer for "The Touch Of Satan."


Before you ask: Based on our conversations with our source at Rhino we don't think the contents of this list should be read as an indication that it's only Sci-Fi Channel episodes from this point on. Our source asked us which episodes fans would like to see next, and we referred him to the poll we conducted a couple of years ago, the result of which are posted HERE.


As soon as we know more about what's next from Rhino, we'll be sure to pass it on.

(In somewhat related news, the TV shows Freaks and Geeks and Invader Zim, both of which had MST vets working on them -- Josh, Trace and Joel on the first, Frank on the second -- are also coming to DVD.)

Also a reminder that the screening of The Screaming Skull coming up this Saturday morning is it, the final broadcast.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 25 January 2004 18:18 (twenty years ago) link

Man I was very interested in that Chris Fujiwara article. I used to watch this show a lot and it was very funny. The Joel stuff was my favorite but the Mike stuff was not bad either. Pod People and Laserblast were particularly memorable. Haven't had a chance to watch it in years tho, except for the movie which I did not appreciate very much. But the article articulated some of the stuff that bugged me about the show. There is inherent smugness in using such easy targets- sort of Wierd Al style- and I hate the dumb-downedness of calling things bad just because they are cheap or "unrealistic" and that reinforces dull movie realism conventions. I think the point is especially well made when he criticizes the MST3K movie guide book for having a shallow plot-synopsis style. It reminds me of how I used to sneer at my brother for reading the Blockbuster Video movie guide- it had a two sentance synopsis, 1-4 star rating, that's it. I was like "Christ man you will never learn to appreciate a movie unless you know HOW and WHY it was made." Director's body of work, credits of the main craftspeople like the art director, cinematograper or scriptwriter, even schools they came from etc. Without that stuff sometimes taste in movies degenerates to a kind of high school jock attitude. I love John Waters and nobody had better tell me he's not an artist. Well, anyways MST3K is usually pretty good so I believe I need to get some more of it again.

sucka (sucka), Sunday, 25 January 2004 21:37 (twenty years ago) link

But the article articulated some of the stuff that bugged me about the show. There is inherent smugness in using such easy targets

The biggest problem, however, is that HE wanted his own easy targets mocked without recourse to the realities of film licensing and TV broadcast, and the costs involved, which would have made it possible (and more than that -- the various cast members have spoken many times about how many different big budget/more modern idiocies they would have loved to have done). Which in turn makes him look like an uninformed twit.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 25 January 2004 21:47 (twenty years ago) link

Seeing them do Battlefield earth would have been awesome.

latebloomer (latebloomer), Sunday, 25 January 2004 22:01 (twenty years ago) link

:-)

Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 25 January 2004 22:02 (twenty years ago) link

So sad that this week MST3K officially goes off the airwaves for, one presumes, ever.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Sunday, 25 January 2004 23:43 (twenty years ago) link

Until Ned gets his own channel.

NA (Nick A.), Monday, 26 January 2004 00:04 (twenty years ago) link

three weeks pass...
OK, so I downloaded the MST3K movie recently, because I thought it would be nice to have a digital copy, and it turns out it was a GERMAN version. In GERMAN. DUBBED. This is madness!

They did a pretty good job although I'm not sure I liked Gypsy's voice done with an actual female type voice.

Casuistry (Chris P), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 06:34 (twenty years ago) link

Creative reinterpretation, sir.

A recent article by Mary Jo Pehl, short but funny. And Kevin Murphy's irregular pieces on NPR have been great!

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 28 February 2004 22:00 (twenty years ago) link

two weeks pass...
Meanwhile, a striking and in-depth interview with Mike, nothing to do with MST3K and much more about himself and his beliefs and takes on things, which I find very valuable. He discusses his Christianity in detail, as well as a love for Paul Johnson's Modern Times (I remember reading that in high school at the behest of a history teacher who didn't agree with Johnson at all but wisely felt that it was good training to read and understand what other points of view are like), particular classical music recommendations and some interesting political conclusions. I have to say, it's interesting realizing more and more with time that, much like my apprecation of Tolkien, my own love for Mike's work certainly doesn't equate down the line with personal beliefs of his -- but that this doesn't diminish said love at all.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 18 March 2004 01:32 (twenty years ago) link

Christian apologists OK (I mean in theory, I haven't read any); Modern Times ew.

Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Thursday, 18 March 2004 01:47 (twenty years ago) link

i'm kinda disappointed he chose tom wolfe over hunter thompson.

J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Thursday, 18 March 2004 01:50 (twenty years ago) link

Modern Times ew.

It's been forever since I read it -- but it was certainly pretty crusty.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 18 March 2004 02:26 (twenty years ago) link

Not merely crusty, but I'm thinking his impossibly lazy stringing together of relativity and relativism...like, dude, no. That's so not how it works, OK? Don't even try.

Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Thursday, 18 March 2004 02:29 (twenty years ago) link

Oh really? Hilarious...but actually, yeah, I dimly remember something like that from the beginning of the book. Hm, how very grad school.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 18 March 2004 02:32 (twenty years ago) link

CLassic, but the dvd's are way overpriced

kephm, Thursday, 18 March 2004 17:30 (twenty years ago) link

Y'know... what with Mike calling Casablanca his favorite film, I'm starting to wonder if maybe Fujiwara wasn't right after all.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Thursday, 18 March 2004 22:51 (twenty years ago) link

That's just silly.

El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Thursday, 18 March 2004 22:55 (twenty years ago) link

I was about to say! Exactly what prompts that conclusion, Eric?

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 19 March 2004 00:07 (twenty years ago) link

I dunno, something about how I assumed all those years that the MST3K crew approached the movies with a small amount of appreciation... then after paging through some of his book and realizing his take on movies, for all the wisecracks and zingers, is actually pretty damned aggressively mainstream.

I'll never hate the show. God no! But I should probably stop reading Nelson's writings outside of the show. (Murphy's book is much better.)

Eric H. (Eric H.), Friday, 19 March 2004 06:58 (twenty years ago) link

I mean, I hate to read more into things than is necessary, but it's sort of difficult to reconcile all those jokes that seemed to be taking, say, organized religion against his offhand comments about "saving people's souls."

Great, now I'm a fucking knee-jerk. (OK, I've always been one, it seems.)

Eric H. (Eric H.), Friday, 19 March 2004 07:10 (twenty years ago) link

The reason I agree with Fujiwara irregardless of how much I love MST3K = trying to show Sirk films to my friends.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Friday, 19 March 2004 07:40 (twenty years ago) link

(why did I just use the non-word "irregardlesss"?)

Eric H. (Eric H.), Friday, 19 March 2004 07:42 (twenty years ago) link

i just bought "I Accuse My Parents" today

Pablo Cruise (chaki), Friday, 19 March 2004 19:36 (twenty years ago) link

A fine choice, my son. (Third episode I ever saw.)

it's sort of difficult to reconcile all those jokes that seemed to be taking, say, organized religion against his offhand comments about "saving people's souls."

I think you're mistaking a collective effort -- ten or more regular writers over the course of eleven years -- with one person, though. Mike was the head writer, yes, but he was not the only writer. Also, for all that there were jabs, there were also appreciations -- I'm thinking of a sketch from Joel days where he noted along the way that one shouldn't mess with a Higher Power, adding, 'Take it from one who knows.' A distinct joy of MST3K is its ecumenicism on a variety of fronts, not necessarily or solely religious.

Outside of the show, keep in mind he's still very close friends with Kevin, who, as you can tell from his own book, is Buddhist -- if Mike were a close-minded bigot, not only would the show reflect that but there would hardly be an easy and continuing friendship and professional relationship between the two (as well as with Bill and to a lesser extent with Paul and Mary Jo and others, as demonstrated by Edward the Less and all). I very much doubt Mike harangues the rest of them with sermons.

Mike's various comments on his childhood and early adulthood, while referencing various joys, also have indicated struggle, a broken home (I believe his parents are divorced), a variety of different spiritual pursuits and more. Add to that the darkness Mike D and I note above in this thread that surfaces elsewhere -- not to mention the miserable headaches he's apparently suffered from for years, which like any physical condition that is persistent and not easily solved is bound to have some impact on who and what you are -- and what I see in him through what I know of him as a public figure is somebody who has found a particular peace and grace in a way that suits him best, and who is apparently an extremely loving and caring father and husband (thinking of some of Bridget Jones's various comments and notes in interviews). I think that's admirable.

Finally, regarding his taste in movies, I don't think it was a requirement to be a total movie buff to make the show work as comedy, and again it was a collective effort. Kevin is obviously a movie freak, so too was Frank, and they knew their obscurities, as I believe does Bill. It's part of what they brought to the table.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 19 March 2004 20:00 (twenty years ago) link

You're right, you're right, and again you're right. I'm too harsh with Mike. And if anyone's being pendandic it would be me.

But Fujiwara's also right in that it's a damn shame one of MST3K's unfortunate legacies is that (for some and not all, I stress) any movie that doesn't adhere to binding mainstream standards of excellence (in the same way that Casablanca does) is practically grounds for ridicule. Of course, this is not MST3K's fault, and in fact the only plausible reason I can think of for Fujiwara to be focusing his vitriol on MST3K is that the show makes such a damned good case for eviscerating offbeat films.

Having said that, did I mention that this is my favorite show ever? Ever ever? And that someday I'd love to sit down with TV's Frank and pick his brain on movies?

Eric H. (Eric H.), Friday, 19 March 2004 20:29 (twenty years ago) link

This is where I admit ignorance and must ask who the flying V is this Fujiwara guy anyway?

donut bitch (donut), Friday, 19 March 2004 20:34 (twenty years ago) link

It's also worth noting that I interviewed Lloyd Kaufman once (the guy behind Troma), and I asked him about MST3K, and he has a very low opinion of the show, too, for the reasons stated above attributed to Fujiwara.

donut bitch (donut), Friday, 19 March 2004 20:36 (twenty years ago) link

Fujiwara's tirade against MST3K sort of but more-so the commodification of "bad movie" culture.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Friday, 19 March 2004 20:58 (twenty years ago) link

Commodification? The guy once argued on feedmag.com that the world would be a much better place if all "bad" movies appeared on Burger King glasses instead of, oh, I don't remember...Jurassic Park or whatever.

Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Friday, 19 March 2004 21:03 (twenty years ago) link

Fujiwara is the guy who wrote the Hermenaut article, no? (xpost)

Anyway I'm never entirely sure how much the MST3K gang hated the films they watched. I was particularly surprised after seeing that Raul Julia movie that they kept going on was one of the worst Sci-Fi era movies they watched -- the visuals in that movie are completely eye-popping and wonderful, although yes the plot is weak and the acting is fairly awful (except for Julia). I found something to like in the film. And I think MST3K helped me to realize, as a young'un (I started watching the show during Season One, neener neener, Ned) that there were things to value in even the most riduclously awful films. Torgo touches our lives.

Casuistry (Chris P), Friday, 19 March 2004 21:03 (twenty years ago) link

I guess if pressed I might suggest that MST3K's jests impressed because at best they blessed and meshed all cultures, from lowbrow to bliss.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Friday, 19 March 2004 21:06 (twenty years ago) link

That's sort of why I put the "bad movie" in quotes. Because I think he was making a distinction between bad in the Douglas Sirk/Larry Cohen sense and bad in the Chipmunk Adventure sense.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Friday, 19 March 2004 21:09 (twenty years ago) link

dude the plot of the show was that their CHARACTERS were being tortured by movies!! every episode they act as if the movies are the worst of their kind. its ACTING people!

Pablo Cruise (chaki), Friday, 19 March 2004 21:12 (twenty years ago) link

As I said above about Fujiwara, his case falls down in part because of his querulous rant about 'why they didn't tackle the big budget horrors of recent times,' which ignores the lack of financing/ability to acquire the rights to same as well as the fact that they DID try and do numbers on them with their irregular Oscar and summer movie specials over the years. I regard Fujiwara as, frankly, an uninformed prig grasping at straws (and I sorta hope he googles himself and comes here to complain one of these days, to prove my point).

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 19 March 2004 21:18 (twenty years ago) link

Pablo honey, yes, but they also made similar comments in interviews, etc.

Casuistry (Chris P), Friday, 19 March 2004 21:22 (twenty years ago) link

It is acting, true, but we have to remember the folks at Best Brains watched their movies in a way very different that you, I or Fujiwara might.

The process they used to develop riffs from movies -- watching movies and stopping them when they could think of something funny which somebody would then write down, then start the film again -- strikes me as really not conducive to wonderful aesthetic experiences. I doubt even my favorite films would still charm me after that kind of punishing microscopic analysis, and since we're talking about stuff, like Monster A-Go-Go or The Wild, Wild World of Batwomen, that sometimes really defies sense and reason, I think rage might a perfectly rational response.

But I bet they all eventually got somewhat desensitized to the process, and that most of the vitriol they poured onto most of their movies was merely exaggerated for comic effect.

IIRC, I think Mary Jo was eventually put in charge of screening films to see if they were MSTable, so she'd MSTed films even more times than the other BB people, and she said that they finished creating an episode out of a film, she would have already seen it a really mindbending number of times. (20? 50?!?)

Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Friday, 19 March 2004 21:36 (twenty years ago) link

But I bet they all eventually got somewhat desensitized to the process, and that most of the vitriol they poured onto most of their movies was merely exaggerated for comic effect.

Thus Tom's legendary cry at the end of Wild World of Batwomen -- "END!!! ENNNNNDDD!!!"

Not only did Mary Jo see things a few times over first, she also had to screen those many movies which were considered and rejected for screening. Frank did that duty before her. They are perhaps the true stalwarts of the whole thing.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 19 March 2004 22:42 (twenty years ago) link

Search only Manos: Hands of Fate and POD PEOPLE, for the love of GOD, POD PEOPLE!

roxymuzak (roxymuzak), Friday, 19 March 2004 23:41 (twenty years ago) link

McCLOUD!

Oh, and hear the engines roll now.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 19 March 2004 23:53 (twenty years ago) link

Penny in a Po' Boy?

roxymuzak (roxymuzak), Saturday, 20 March 2004 04:46 (twenty years ago) link

one month passes...
In the 'hmmm' department, picked up the new colorized Reefer Madness disc (also presented in B&W for the purists) which among other things has Mike doing a commentary. It's...curious. Chaki was sorta down on it at ChakiFAP and I have to agree it's a bit subpar, sorta Mike does a solo MST turn on the movie, but the lack of interplay with someone else is especially missed. A couple of tropes from MST days recur ("NOT A REAL ACTOR!") and there are certainly moments of worth, but find it used (like I did) and/or get it with credit or a gift certificate (like I did) unless you have any interest in the movie straight up (like, uh, I did).

The REAL weird thing about the commentary, though, is Mike's voice -- it's him and all, but he's got this strange, prominent lisp that shows up. Either I've never noticed it before (which I find hard to doubt), he's gained one over time for reason (hadn't noticed it in the recent DVD interview snippets) or maybe they recorded him a day after some dental or mouth work.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 9 May 2004 15:30 (twenty years ago) link

(But I should note that an absolutely beautiful moment at ChakiFAP went like this:

Me: "So I picked up that Reefer Madness with Mike Nelson on it..."

Chaki: *takes out wallet to show that he's put the sticker from the DVD cover with Mike's face on it on top of his driver's license photo*)

Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 9 May 2004 15:33 (twenty years ago) link

one month passes...
A new update -- Mike, Bill and Kevin have a joint film review/essay site up called The Film Crew Online, which is apparently going to be both its own thing and the source of an upcoming film review book. Could be promising!

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 12 June 2004 18:14 (twenty years ago) link

Ah, and apparently an NPR series as well!

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 12 June 2004 18:15 (twenty years ago) link

Awesome, thanks Ned! I'm always glad to hear what those guys are doing.

latebloomer (latebloomer), Saturday, 12 June 2004 19:12 (twenty years ago) link


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