Mystery Science Theater 3000: C/D, S/D.

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I was about to say! Exactly what prompts that conclusion, Eric?

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 19 March 2004 00:07 (twenty years ago) link

I dunno, something about how I assumed all those years that the MST3K crew approached the movies with a small amount of appreciation... then after paging through some of his book and realizing his take on movies, for all the wisecracks and zingers, is actually pretty damned aggressively mainstream.

I'll never hate the show. God no! But I should probably stop reading Nelson's writings outside of the show. (Murphy's book is much better.)

Eric H. (Eric H.), Friday, 19 March 2004 06:58 (twenty years ago) link

I mean, I hate to read more into things than is necessary, but it's sort of difficult to reconcile all those jokes that seemed to be taking, say, organized religion against his offhand comments about "saving people's souls."

Great, now I'm a fucking knee-jerk. (OK, I've always been one, it seems.)

Eric H. (Eric H.), Friday, 19 March 2004 07:10 (twenty years ago) link

The reason I agree with Fujiwara irregardless of how much I love MST3K = trying to show Sirk films to my friends.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Friday, 19 March 2004 07:40 (twenty years ago) link

(why did I just use the non-word "irregardlesss"?)

Eric H. (Eric H.), Friday, 19 March 2004 07:42 (twenty years ago) link

i just bought "I Accuse My Parents" today

Pablo Cruise (chaki), Friday, 19 March 2004 19:36 (twenty years ago) link

A fine choice, my son. (Third episode I ever saw.)

it's sort of difficult to reconcile all those jokes that seemed to be taking, say, organized religion against his offhand comments about "saving people's souls."

I think you're mistaking a collective effort -- ten or more regular writers over the course of eleven years -- with one person, though. Mike was the head writer, yes, but he was not the only writer. Also, for all that there were jabs, there were also appreciations -- I'm thinking of a sketch from Joel days where he noted along the way that one shouldn't mess with a Higher Power, adding, 'Take it from one who knows.' A distinct joy of MST3K is its ecumenicism on a variety of fronts, not necessarily or solely religious.

Outside of the show, keep in mind he's still very close friends with Kevin, who, as you can tell from his own book, is Buddhist -- if Mike were a close-minded bigot, not only would the show reflect that but there would hardly be an easy and continuing friendship and professional relationship between the two (as well as with Bill and to a lesser extent with Paul and Mary Jo and others, as demonstrated by Edward the Less and all). I very much doubt Mike harangues the rest of them with sermons.

Mike's various comments on his childhood and early adulthood, while referencing various joys, also have indicated struggle, a broken home (I believe his parents are divorced), a variety of different spiritual pursuits and more. Add to that the darkness Mike D and I note above in this thread that surfaces elsewhere -- not to mention the miserable headaches he's apparently suffered from for years, which like any physical condition that is persistent and not easily solved is bound to have some impact on who and what you are -- and what I see in him through what I know of him as a public figure is somebody who has found a particular peace and grace in a way that suits him best, and who is apparently an extremely loving and caring father and husband (thinking of some of Bridget Jones's various comments and notes in interviews). I think that's admirable.

Finally, regarding his taste in movies, I don't think it was a requirement to be a total movie buff to make the show work as comedy, and again it was a collective effort. Kevin is obviously a movie freak, so too was Frank, and they knew their obscurities, as I believe does Bill. It's part of what they brought to the table.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 19 March 2004 20:00 (twenty years ago) link

You're right, you're right, and again you're right. I'm too harsh with Mike. And if anyone's being pendandic it would be me.

But Fujiwara's also right in that it's a damn shame one of MST3K's unfortunate legacies is that (for some and not all, I stress) any movie that doesn't adhere to binding mainstream standards of excellence (in the same way that Casablanca does) is practically grounds for ridicule. Of course, this is not MST3K's fault, and in fact the only plausible reason I can think of for Fujiwara to be focusing his vitriol on MST3K is that the show makes such a damned good case for eviscerating offbeat films.

Having said that, did I mention that this is my favorite show ever? Ever ever? And that someday I'd love to sit down with TV's Frank and pick his brain on movies?

Eric H. (Eric H.), Friday, 19 March 2004 20:29 (twenty years ago) link

This is where I admit ignorance and must ask who the flying V is this Fujiwara guy anyway?

donut bitch (donut), Friday, 19 March 2004 20:34 (twenty years ago) link

It's also worth noting that I interviewed Lloyd Kaufman once (the guy behind Troma), and I asked him about MST3K, and he has a very low opinion of the show, too, for the reasons stated above attributed to Fujiwara.

donut bitch (donut), Friday, 19 March 2004 20:36 (twenty years ago) link

Fujiwara's tirade against MST3K sort of but more-so the commodification of "bad movie" culture.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Friday, 19 March 2004 20:58 (twenty years ago) link

Commodification? The guy once argued on feedmag.com that the world would be a much better place if all "bad" movies appeared on Burger King glasses instead of, oh, I don't remember...Jurassic Park or whatever.

Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Friday, 19 March 2004 21:03 (twenty years ago) link

Fujiwara is the guy who wrote the Hermenaut article, no? (xpost)

Anyway I'm never entirely sure how much the MST3K gang hated the films they watched. I was particularly surprised after seeing that Raul Julia movie that they kept going on was one of the worst Sci-Fi era movies they watched -- the visuals in that movie are completely eye-popping and wonderful, although yes the plot is weak and the acting is fairly awful (except for Julia). I found something to like in the film. And I think MST3K helped me to realize, as a young'un (I started watching the show during Season One, neener neener, Ned) that there were things to value in even the most riduclously awful films. Torgo touches our lives.

Casuistry (Chris P), Friday, 19 March 2004 21:03 (twenty years ago) link

I guess if pressed I might suggest that MST3K's jests impressed because at best they blessed and meshed all cultures, from lowbrow to bliss.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Friday, 19 March 2004 21:06 (twenty years ago) link

That's sort of why I put the "bad movie" in quotes. Because I think he was making a distinction between bad in the Douglas Sirk/Larry Cohen sense and bad in the Chipmunk Adventure sense.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Friday, 19 March 2004 21:09 (twenty years ago) link

dude the plot of the show was that their CHARACTERS were being tortured by movies!! every episode they act as if the movies are the worst of their kind. its ACTING people!

Pablo Cruise (chaki), Friday, 19 March 2004 21:12 (twenty years ago) link

As I said above about Fujiwara, his case falls down in part because of his querulous rant about 'why they didn't tackle the big budget horrors of recent times,' which ignores the lack of financing/ability to acquire the rights to same as well as the fact that they DID try and do numbers on them with their irregular Oscar and summer movie specials over the years. I regard Fujiwara as, frankly, an uninformed prig grasping at straws (and I sorta hope he googles himself and comes here to complain one of these days, to prove my point).

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 19 March 2004 21:18 (twenty years ago) link

Pablo honey, yes, but they also made similar comments in interviews, etc.

Casuistry (Chris P), Friday, 19 March 2004 21:22 (twenty years ago) link

It is acting, true, but we have to remember the folks at Best Brains watched their movies in a way very different that you, I or Fujiwara might.

The process they used to develop riffs from movies -- watching movies and stopping them when they could think of something funny which somebody would then write down, then start the film again -- strikes me as really not conducive to wonderful aesthetic experiences. I doubt even my favorite films would still charm me after that kind of punishing microscopic analysis, and since we're talking about stuff, like Monster A-Go-Go or The Wild, Wild World of Batwomen, that sometimes really defies sense and reason, I think rage might a perfectly rational response.

But I bet they all eventually got somewhat desensitized to the process, and that most of the vitriol they poured onto most of their movies was merely exaggerated for comic effect.

IIRC, I think Mary Jo was eventually put in charge of screening films to see if they were MSTable, so she'd MSTed films even more times than the other BB people, and she said that they finished creating an episode out of a film, she would have already seen it a really mindbending number of times. (20? 50?!?)

Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Friday, 19 March 2004 21:36 (twenty years ago) link

But I bet they all eventually got somewhat desensitized to the process, and that most of the vitriol they poured onto most of their movies was merely exaggerated for comic effect.

Thus Tom's legendary cry at the end of Wild World of Batwomen -- "END!!! ENNNNNDDD!!!"

Not only did Mary Jo see things a few times over first, she also had to screen those many movies which were considered and rejected for screening. Frank did that duty before her. They are perhaps the true stalwarts of the whole thing.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 19 March 2004 22:42 (twenty years ago) link

Search only Manos: Hands of Fate and POD PEOPLE, for the love of GOD, POD PEOPLE!

roxymuzak (roxymuzak), Friday, 19 March 2004 23:41 (twenty years ago) link

McCLOUD!

Oh, and hear the engines roll now.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 19 March 2004 23:53 (twenty years ago) link

Penny in a Po' Boy?

roxymuzak (roxymuzak), Saturday, 20 March 2004 04:46 (twenty years ago) link

one month passes...
In the 'hmmm' department, picked up the new colorized Reefer Madness disc (also presented in B&W for the purists) which among other things has Mike doing a commentary. It's...curious. Chaki was sorta down on it at ChakiFAP and I have to agree it's a bit subpar, sorta Mike does a solo MST turn on the movie, but the lack of interplay with someone else is especially missed. A couple of tropes from MST days recur ("NOT A REAL ACTOR!") and there are certainly moments of worth, but find it used (like I did) and/or get it with credit or a gift certificate (like I did) unless you have any interest in the movie straight up (like, uh, I did).

The REAL weird thing about the commentary, though, is Mike's voice -- it's him and all, but he's got this strange, prominent lisp that shows up. Either I've never noticed it before (which I find hard to doubt), he's gained one over time for reason (hadn't noticed it in the recent DVD interview snippets) or maybe they recorded him a day after some dental or mouth work.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 9 May 2004 15:30 (twenty years ago) link

(But I should note that an absolutely beautiful moment at ChakiFAP went like this:

Me: "So I picked up that Reefer Madness with Mike Nelson on it..."

Chaki: *takes out wallet to show that he's put the sticker from the DVD cover with Mike's face on it on top of his driver's license photo*)

Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 9 May 2004 15:33 (twenty years ago) link

one month passes...
A new update -- Mike, Bill and Kevin have a joint film review/essay site up called The Film Crew Online, which is apparently going to be both its own thing and the source of an upcoming film review book. Could be promising!

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 12 June 2004 18:14 (twenty years ago) link

Ah, and apparently an NPR series as well!

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 12 June 2004 18:15 (twenty years ago) link

Awesome, thanks Ned! I'm always glad to hear what those guys are doing.

latebloomer (latebloomer), Saturday, 12 June 2004 19:12 (twenty years ago) link

I just saw Mr. B Natural for the first time. Holy shit.

VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Saturday, 12 June 2004 19:16 (twenty years ago) link

HAHAHA

Do you feel the spirit of music inside you now?

"Just wait until he finds out how hard it really is!"

"Yes, very clever, MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM..."

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 12 June 2004 19:19 (twenty years ago) link

Dan, the file you downloaded did include the skit that comes afterwards, right?

Casuistry (Chris P), Saturday, 12 June 2004 20:11 (twenty years ago) link

Sadly it didn't. I'm mad about this.

VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Saturday, 12 June 2004 21:30 (twenty years ago) link

You should be.

Recent Mike and Mary Jo interviews.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 12 June 2004 21:33 (twenty years ago) link

Heads-up, folks - this splendidly silly fillum is on UK terrestrial TV tonight (ITV I think) at the ungodly hour of 3am - if you haven't seen it, SET THE VIDEO!

CharlieNo4 (Charlie), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 14:31 (twenty years ago) link

The film itself is an imperfect introduction to the whole shebang but it's still one way to start! As noted above, though, slsk is proving spectacularly handy for sharing episodes, and various recommendations are a-plenty on this thread -- and as Dan notes, "Mr. B Natural" is pretty essential.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 14:39 (twenty years ago) link

What's the one with "Professor Dorkin"? Seem to remember it causing much amusement to my friends cos I lived near Dorking at the time...oh the japes.

CharlieNo4 (Charlie), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 15:06 (twenty years ago) link

Gorgo, with the famous Dorkin circus and the lovable Dorkin clowns.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 15:09 (twenty years ago) link

My faves are POD PEOPLE, Manos: the Hands of Fate, Mitchell and CAVE DWELLERSOMGWTF.

roxymuzak (roxymuzak), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 15:51 (twenty years ago) link

"The exercise is working. I can feel it here."

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 16:01 (twenty years ago) link

Which one is it with the bees that the guy trains to kill people?

Comment dits-on...eh... le NA? (Nick A.), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 16:03 (twenty years ago) link

The Killer Bees. It is very English.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 16:03 (twenty years ago) link

It's been ages, but I remember favorites are the Russo-Finnish one with the dwarf, Pod People, Santa Claus v. the Martians, and the truly bizarre Puma-man "Everybody was Aztec Fighting" one.

Jocelyn (Jocelyn), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 17:43 (twenty years ago) link

I'm still disappointed that bits of This Island Earth got cut in the movie.

jel -- (jel), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 17:45 (twenty years ago) link

They wanted to do the full movie but the battles between Best Brains and the studio were extremely bitter, and pretty much the studio kept trimming down the running time against the Brains' wishes.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 17:48 (twenty years ago) link

I finally watched "Girl With Golden Boots". It was all right.

Casuistry (Chris P), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 17:53 (twenty years ago) link

"I WANT MY PRETTY MIND BACK!"

VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 17:54 (twenty years ago) link

It was all right.

! FAINT PRAISE, sir.

"I'M BACK!"

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 17:55 (twenty years ago) link

"Hey, did you guys like how I teleported in here just a second ago?"

VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 17:56 (twenty years ago) link

There were like two really fantastic lines, both of which I'm forgetting. Also a Taliban joke, which surprised me.

Casuistry (Chris P), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 17:57 (twenty years ago) link

Well it's not like the Taliban were unknown before 2001...

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 17:58 (twenty years ago) link


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