Obscure British References on ILM: Classic or Dud ?

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Oz TV Soaps = 'pash on x' so TH's usage is correct if he lives in Summer Bay.

― Richard Tunnicliffe, Tuesday, 12 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Am now curious about these British boarding-school books and their thinly-veiled passions. I imagine Sweet Valley High (v. popular American teen series) w/posh girls in wool socks. Constantly, actually.

― Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 12 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Actually, although I read many many of my little sister's Mallory Towers books when a teenager, they are (a) really quite decorous (nt to say madly boring) and no beastliness occurs, and (b) I don't believe that's where I came across the word. My mum's best friend Carrie uses it — being of an age and of a type — and as a result I have always liked it.

― mark s, Tuesday, 12 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Girl-on-girl boarding school action (behind veil of decorum) can be found in one called 'The Hill' and one called 'The Well Of Loneliness' by Radclyffe Hall. I know this isn't very useful but I'm going from memory here, my Oxford Companion To Children's Literature (grate book) not to hand. Both these books were BANNED so you know they must be good stuff.

"Beastliness" is a much-underused word these days. It carries a staggering moral force in b-s literature.

― Tom, Tuesday, 12 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Radclyffe Hall is GRATE! Though for an admittedly deeply un-rock and roll reason viz I went to Girton myself. My time there did do interesting things to my own sexuality, but oxbridge college loyalty is surely rubbish on a stick and therefore not cool at all.

― Richard Tunnicliffe, Tuesday, 12 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Of course recently we discovered that Philip Larkin wrote just such a work about sexual, erm, *repression* in girls' boarding schools. A much later example of girls' boarding school fiction (and, erm, interesting) is the Trebizon series by Anne Digby, one of which ("The Tennis Term At ...", I think) contains the most embarrassing overuse of exclamation marks any side of Blyton and the most embarrassing "romantic" language any side of Woman's Weekly circa 1982.

And, FWIW, "in a funk" meaning "in a mess" occurs in the early Jennings books from the 50s, though not the later ones (Buckeridge knew not to use outmoded slang - he's the great survivor of the genre, check out "Jennings At Large" for an astounding reinvention).

― Robin Carmody, Tuesday, 12 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

(nobody's even mentioned) GRATE spelt like that is from my favourite (cos only ones I ever read) Brit boarding school bks, the Molesworth trilogy (? or was there four of them)?
Spunk in Australia and NZ does mean what it means in England as well as saying someone's spunky. You don't just use it for boys, it's girls as well. Anyone can be a 'spunk.' Did anyone else find the ILM question 'First time I ever got bummed' flat out pornographic? In this country you couldn't have said that - but maybe he knew that and it was meant to be funny?

― duane zarakov, Wednesday, 13 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

There are four yeah (though I can only remember three - How To Be Topp, Down With Skool, Whizz For Atomms) and yes a massive influence on the 'house style' of ILM/E I'll be bound. Tanya did an actual pastiche of them at some point.

― Tom, Wednesday, 13 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Even mark s who is grate brane canot remeber wot forth is called chiz chiz

― mark s, Wednesday, 13 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

BACK IN THE JUG AGANE as any fule kno. (best title too).

― Tom, Wednesday, 13 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

wtf?

― gareth, Wednesday, 13 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

You people are just trying to be insular and British now.

― Ally, Wednesday, 13 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

I thought mj hibbert invented GRATE?

― carsmilesteve, Wednesday, 13 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

I think he was the first person to use the term on Freaky Trigger but, as I'm sure he'd be the first to admit, its origins are certainly Custardian.

― Richard Tunnicliffe, Wednesday, 13 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Carsmile Steve, are you taking the piss? Or was MJ Hibbert around somewhere else before ILM? You of all people must have noticed it all over the Sinister list for what seems like years. I think StarrySarah was the first person on there that I remember using it. I'm bored stiff of it now, but that's the way with slang. You're allowed to be snobby about it.

― Nick, Monday, 18 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

An entymology of "grate", just for that hard case dastoor:

First featured on sinister by JJ, then by Pauly, better known these days for popex, and then a few months later by MR HIBBERT HIMSELF, so NUR! As far as I'm aware, it comes from the gentlemen of Artists Against Success, which means it is VALID and for THE KIDS. I think it spread to sinister via popex (back in the monkey point, monkey click days) and also the NME.com chatroom (which was set up by the aforementioned Pauly), where, at one point, if you typed g-r-e-a- t it appeared on screen as GRATE (not that i used to spend ages and ages in there or anything...)

will this do?

― carsmilesteve, Monday, 18 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

two weeks pass...

Carsmile: 'grate' is much older than that. Pre-internet, as far as I can remember.

re. above: I agree with Stevie; and also Masonic Boom.

― the pinefox, Sunday, 8 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Grate: to rub, as a body with a rough surface against another body; to make a harsh sound by the friction of rough bodies...I dunno, but my dictionary is kinda kinky!

― james e l, Sunday, 8 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

This is starting to great.

― Ally C, Sunday, 8 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Go on, it's graight. (Actually, that wurd = yuck!!)

― AP, Sunday, 8 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Uh, that was an "entymology" ?

― duane, Sunday, 8 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

two weeks pass...

Just seen this - yes, GRATE comes from Molesworth obv, as does it's companion word GURLS. The above description of its passing into INTERWEB use (there's another one) is TRUE, tho misses out the FACT that me, JJ and Pauly are and were members of The Lunch List, an organisation SO shadowy it makes the Star Chamber look... er... less shadowy. Lots of people keep pointing at me and saying "It is HIM! He is the inventor of GRATE!" which isn't true, but thanks anyway.

INTERWEB does seem to be catching on tho doesn't it?

― MJ Hibbett, Tuesday, 24 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

where did INTERWEB originate? is that whut yous all calling tha Arpanet now?

― gareth, Tuesday, 24 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

three months pass...

explain "chiz chiz" please.

― Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 7 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

oh i'm proud of myself for figuring that one out without any help and i'm pretty sure it expresses crowd cheers, i.e. 'ethan R going to appear on the scene (chiz chiz)'.

― ethan, Wednesday, 7 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

'chiz chiz' is explained on first page of the first Molesworth book thus: 'a chiz is a swiz or swindle as any fule kno'

― m jemmeson, Wednesday, 7 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

crowd cheers would be just 'cheers cheers' (Molesworth uses that too).

― m jemmeson, Wednesday, 7 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Chiz chiz always brings to mind for me - and prob. no other poster - an obscure British comics character called 'Rah Rah Randall'. Everywhere Randall went he was accompanied by an unseen Greek chorus representing 'the readers': if things went well for Randall they would shout RAH! RAH! (hurrah! hurrah!), or BOO! if things were going badly.

― Andrew L, Wednesday, 7 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

"chiz chiz" is indeed a swiz and a swindle, short for "chisel", originating from the days before coins had milling round the edge and dishonest types could chisel bits off the edges of their gold and silver coins to melt down into more coins. There, didn't you want to know that?

I can't remember if I've posted that before or if I just nearly did and then decided you didn't actually want to know that. Either way, I apologise.

(Molesworthisms on ILM = CLASSIC. I have always wanted to be able to say "grate" and stuff and not worry that people would become confused or assume I just can't spell. The Molesworthesque IHM on the Cocteau Twins is hilarious, too.)

― Rebecca, Wednesday, 7 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

o wow, wot a GRATE fakt!

― m jemmeson, Wednesday, 7 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

I R recalling that in the U.S. at some point a decision was made to use the ridges/chisellings as part of the coin's actual design from the get-go, even though silver quarters, dimes etc are a thing of the ancient past -- because people were simply used to having them there. So nickel edges = smooth because nickel was never worth enough to chizel!

― Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 7 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

"Interweb" I nicked offa my pal The Chocolate - defintely not an MJH/PopEx fing.

My American friends thought "chiz" = "cheers". Oops!

― Sarah, Thursday, 8 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

In my delight at mjemmeson and rebecca's explanation i didn't notice i was being CHIZELED of the troof. you lot don't use those words to say what you say they mean. it seems to me that you use "chiz chiz" to mean "fnar fnar"...

― Tracer Hand, Saturday, 10 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

"oh i'm proud of myself for figuring that one out without any help and i'm pretty sure it expresses crowd cheers, i.e. 'ethan R going to appear on the scene (chiz chiz)'."
Ethan in self-abuse shocker!

― DG, Saturday, 10 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

two months pass...

does "chessy" mean something?

― Tracer Hand, Monday, 21 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

if it doesn't have a meaning, i'm going to suggest one: "rich" as in "that's a bit chessy". etym - "chess pie", which is like pecan pie but without the pecans and is therefore quite rich. "chessy" also has extra connotation of "too perfect", the way chess pie is like a smooth distillation of pecan pie, without the bumps and interesting textures.

i know pecan pie isn't british.

― Tracer Hand, Monday, 21 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

I asked my mother-in-law how chess pie got its name. She replied, "Because it's just pie," in a heavy Southern accent. Cue huge groans from the audience.

― Dan Perry, Monday, 21 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

I've heard that chess pie explanation (chess pie=just pie) from a few Southern cooks -- I think it's on the real.

― Mark, Monday, 21 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

"Can I have some molasses?"

"How can you have mo lasses when you ain't had no lasses at all??"

* scampers away *

― Tracer Hand, Monday, 21 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

eleven months pass...

Aw. This was a great thread.

― mark p (Mark P), Friday, 17 January 2003 03:19 (twenty-one years ago) link

pash still means what mark said it did, but i've come across it more commonly as meaning to snog, ie "have a pash behind the bike sheds ooer". a sad casualty in the war against brazen youth!

"do brits have more slang than us MURKINS, i think so"

hahahaha (ok slightly misspelt but-) hahahaha!!!

yeah, this thread is nang

― zemko (bob), Friday, 17 January 2003 11:35 (twenty-one years ago) link

I like these old threads, because some of us had different names back then.

― jel -- (jel), Friday, 17 January 2003 11:41 (twenty-one years ago) link

ten months pass...

On the bus yesterday I heard two girls talking about a fight and there was some stuff I didn't get -

"bare" - "he was kickin bare heads"

"squashed" - "he called me up and said 'it's squashed'" "yeah? who squashed it?"

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Saturday, 22 November 2003 16:45 (twenty years ago) link

"bare ugly ting"

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Saturday, 22 November 2003 19:48 (twenty years ago) link

"bare" - "he was kickin bare heads"

'bare' in this context is widely used and means 'lots of'/'nothing but'.

― David (David), Saturday, 22 November 2003 20:58 (twenty years ago) link

The original meaning is almost reversed. 'Bare' was previously used to describe the complete absence of something ('bare-headed' = no hat), but in this usage it implies complete coverage (eg 'bare feds up west last night' = the west end of London was swarming with police).

― David (David), Saturday, 22 November 2003 21:12 (twenty years ago) link

Maybe "bare" because it's like there's so many of (x) that there's no hiding it? In any case that's awesome, David, thank you! Strange, though, that one would say "feds" in the absence of a federal structure of government.

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Saturday, 22 November 2003 21:21 (twenty years ago) link

I always assumed that 'fed' was some kind of aspirational-American thing by black kids here. Like it came from American rap lyrics or something. Am I right on that?

― David (David), Saturday, 22 November 2003 21:28 (twenty years ago) link

Of course..(just realised)..it must come from the F in FBI. Perhaps it's widely used in America in that way (not just hip hop/black)?

― David (David), Saturday, 22 November 2003 21:32 (twenty years ago) link

i thought it was bearheads?

― charltonlido (gareth), Saturday, 22 November 2003 21:32 (twenty years ago) link

What was?

― David (David), Saturday, 22 November 2003 21:34 (twenty years ago) link

as in bearheads, not bare heads

― charltonlido (gareth), Saturday, 22 November 2003 21:36 (twenty years ago) link

You heard the exchange as well?

― David (David), Saturday, 22 November 2003 21:40 (twenty years ago) link

squashed is workoutable surely, like 'locked off' to have been stopped. they were probably discussing the groceries though, perhaps some berries or other

― prima fassy (bob), Saturday, 22 November 2003 21:50 (twenty years ago) link

I quizzed charlton and stevem about it last night at the swimmer. No idea on the spelling. It wasn't just heads though, they said it for a lot of stuff - "they were throwing bare/bear chairs around" etc.

"Fed" is misleading since it implies Scotland Yard rather than the Met

yes yes you FASSY MAN

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Saturday, 22 November 2003 21:57 (twenty years ago) link

Where I work: 'lock off your computer' means shut it down. It's more about finishing and closing down than stopping (stopping could just be a temporary interruption).

― David (David), Saturday, 22 November 2003 21:57 (twenty years ago) link

I thought Gareth was joking. No it's 'bare' because it's widely used in the way I described ('bear' wouldn't make any sense). Not that the spelling matters because it's hardly ever used in print. I suppose you could spell it 'bear' if you wanted to but I'm in no doubt of the derivation.

Scotland Yard vs Met (or actually C.I.D. vs Met?) is too sophisticated. As far as I'm aware it's just a blanket term for police (here I mean, not in the US).

― David (David), Saturday, 22 November 2003 22:03 (twenty years ago) link

yes David and raises the hackles of my cartoonish pedantry! (haha next thing you know I'll be insisting that "5-0" only be used to refer to Hawaiian polis)

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Saturday, 22 November 2003 22:10 (twenty years ago) link

ive heard feds and 5-0 on the buses. and yes, there is no distinction between police forces or whatever. its a blanket reference

― charltonlido (gareth), Saturday, 22 November 2003 23:06 (twenty years ago) link

It's weird when people say "bare nuff", though, that's a tortology, surely? "There was bare nuff fit girls dere"

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Sunday, 23 November 2003 01:35 (twenty years ago) link

pash still means what mark said it did, but i've come across it more commonly as meaning to snog

It only ever meant snog where I come from. "Wanna pash?" etc. Never heard it used in the crush sense at all! Maybe it depends where one's from?

I'm also amused when I read as I have several times here that spunk=hott person seems weird to everyone (cept Aussies obv). Tis very 80s bogan (ie white trash yob) usage, you'd only see it now in shows like "Kath n Kim" which by the way is shite and should be blown up, but hey, this is a UKian ref thread so I'll shoosh now.

― Trayce (trayce), Sunday, 23 November 2003 02:02 (twenty years ago) link

tracey look at moy!!

― the surface noise (electricsound), Sunday, 23 November 2003 02:48 (twenty years ago) link

Used to be, "bare" meant 'none' in North london and 'loads' in the Saarf. Cue hilarious misunderstandings.

― cis (cis), Sunday, 23 November 2003 11:10 (twenty years ago) link

so Barenaked Ladies are in fact from Sydenham I figure

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 24 November 2003 10:40 (twenty years ago) link

wait, i mean....oh never mind, hmph

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 24 November 2003 10:41 (twenty years ago) link

we had a classic one on the bus the other week. two rather loud-mouthed young "ladies" were abusing other passengers by saying they were "brock". the abusee said "what on earth does that mean?" and apparently it means ugly, but no derivation was offered. she also said the guy had "a cauliflower dick" which is entirely un-comeback-able despite being gibberish...

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Monday, 24 November 2003 12:21 (twenty years ago) link

Brock - a reference to the Pokemon character? He doesn't look particularly ugly to me though (although poss. nerdy..would that fit you and your friends?). The other obvious thing would be a badger (and badgers are ugly, arguably) but that seems far too old fashioned.

― David (David), Monday, 24 November 2003 12:43 (twenty years ago) link

'brock' means 'broken' or 'to break out' - possibly 'spread out' or 'wide' - i'm guessing here

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 24 November 2003 12:45 (twenty years ago) link

To brock or bruck someone up is to beat them up, so I'd go for it possibly meaning 'horrifically disfigured' as well.

― cis (cis), Monday, 24 November 2003 12:53 (twenty years ago) link

yeah, we thought it was fairly unlikely to be bager-related. shame, really. i'm assuming brock/bruck comes from break/broke, show your workings steve/cis ;)

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Monday, 24 November 2003 12:59 (twenty years ago) link

Slightly related (to being broken): 'busted' ('cuz, those vocals sound busted'..the word busted said with feeling, explosively) lame, feeble (makes Busted's choice of name a bit unfortunate).

― David (David), Monday, 24 November 2003 13:01 (twenty years ago) link

show you my workings? how dare you sir

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 24 November 2003 13:04 (twenty years ago) link

one year passes...

havent heard squashed for 3 yrs or so, i really like that one!

these kids i used to work with were alwyas going "work? squash that, man" with the most awesome scorn ever. no one else seems to have heard it tho.

― ambrose (ambrose), Monday, 11 April 2005 17:56 (nineteen years ago) link

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