I don't think it's actually that weird to compare how these people are fucked up to how we're all fucked up, like aren't we all part of a big cult called...america
― iatee, Saturday, 4 February 2012 01:09 (twelve years ago) link
context's different iatee. semi rational consumer getting actual product with money v. desperate/disturbed/lost person getting scammed trying to quantum leap to wealth.
― Spectrum, Saturday, 4 February 2012 01:09 (twelve years ago) link
lots of pretty rational people get scammed w/ quantum leap to wealth scams!
― iatee, Saturday, 4 February 2012 01:10 (twelve years ago) link
also old people
glad I finally get to see iatee posting about cars
― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Saturday, 4 February 2012 01:11 (twelve years ago) link
the value of many of these actual products is just as dubious as quantum jumping
― lag∞n, Saturday, 4 February 2012 01:12 (twelve years ago) link
xxxpost sort of! if everyone else is out there saying "i exist!" and you go quiet, people very quickly forget that you exist. and then your tv spots look more like this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKL254Y_jtc
and yeah iatee dayo may be right here. like, very few (if any!) consumer decisions are wholly rational, so if by "subconscious" you mean "whether we know it or not we are more likely to select products we've heard of or seen advertised" then yes of course. just, if you mean this in some Hidden Persuaders way or like I'm going to buy Fancy Feast just because I see it advertised whether I have a cat or not, then no.
this is of course where the conversation turns around to why all of those mind movies look exactly the same. because while virtually all ads are innocent ("please just like me!") and the ones that aren't don't work nearly as well as they diabolical geniuses who came up with them would like to think, the net effect of all that chatter is absolutely pernicious. and we start mistaking other people's fantasies for our own, or mixing up basic desires for e.g. safety and security and love with astons and private jets and six pack abs and our own personal charity for grateful starving children and a multimillion dollar internet business and a pony.
george saunders' "brain dead megaphone" is pretty good on this iirc.
btw kundalini yoga is kooky but ultimately less culty than crossfit afaik
― all yoga attacks are fire based (rogermexico.), Saturday, 4 February 2012 01:12 (twelve years ago) link
desire makes the world go round
― lil kink (Matt P), Saturday, 4 February 2012 01:13 (twelve years ago) link
ugh, finally got around to reading this thread, so sad and distressing
― Wie wol ich bin der vogel has noch den erfret mich das (forksclovetofu), Saturday, 4 February 2012 01:13 (twelve years ago) link
wait "please just like me" is like the exact opposite of innocent!
― lil kink (Matt P), Saturday, 4 February 2012 01:17 (twelve years ago) link
crossfit!!
― ⚓ (gr8080), Saturday, 4 February 2012 01:18 (twelve years ago) link
also hi forks
― ⚓ (gr8080), Saturday, 4 February 2012 01:19 (twelve years ago) link
thanks rog
― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Saturday, 4 February 2012 01:20 (twelve years ago) link
i think it's really disingenuous to say that "please just like me" is blameless on its own, it's only when there's SO MUCH OF IT and it's SO CONFUSING that it's suddenly bad.
― lil kink (Matt P), Saturday, 4 February 2012 01:23 (twelve years ago) link
yeah, I can see the similarities iatee... probably something fundamental about a society built around consumerism. but there's a difference in bargaining power I think in these scenarios that makes the marketing here different and can sell a different type of product to a different type of person.
iPad is a cool, glitzy object ... totally useless in the grand scheme of things, but it at least adds a little value to your life, even just as an amusing distraction from the pain of existence.
compare this to Astral Breathing 4 $$$Million$$$ which will solve your problems with your bills, your wife, your kids, and finally let you live your dreams. anyone with an ounce of common sense would laugh at that shit, but if you're in a hard place in life or prone to deception, you're going to fork over cash for basically false promises.
― Spectrum, Saturday, 4 February 2012 01:25 (twelve years ago) link
solve your problems with your bills, your wife, your kids, and finally let you live your dreams.
iirc the ipad 3 will do this
― iatee, Saturday, 4 February 2012 01:28 (twelve years ago) link
but really, how far are these people from people who are gonna sleep outside the apple store for that ipad 3
― iatee, Saturday, 4 February 2012 01:31 (twelve years ago) link
no but the ipad is revolutionary why dont u see
― lag∞n, Saturday, 4 February 2012 01:32 (twelve years ago) link
this is a paper from 2009(?) that gives a little more background on Mindvalley and def makes them sound more like a six sigma thing:
http://www.slideshare.net/fedeeli/agileentrepreneurship
― ⚓ (gr8080), Friday, February 3, 2012 4:25 PM
So this is a really interesting document. Not six sigma, and not very good presentation/slide design, but a totally legit summary/synthesis of a lot of "current" management/entrepreneurship chatter. Says a lot about the "why," remains hilariously/admirably vague on the "what."
― all yoga attacks are fire based (rogermexico.), Saturday, 4 February 2012 01:35 (twelve years ago) link
― iatee, Friday, February 3, 2012 8:31 PM (4 minutes ago)
hmmm... maybe difference is intent in getting a specific response. iPad 3 marketing is designed to make the average consumer want it. if people freak out about it and lose 4 days work to buy it, that could be their own personal idiosyncrasy. compare it to marketing designed specifically to take advantage of easily duped people by selling snake oil. now I'm getting into lolaw mode.
― Spectrum, Saturday, 4 February 2012 01:37 (twelve years ago) link
the thing with crossfit is a lot of people want to be in crazy awesome shape for whatever reason, and doing crossfit on the reg will do that. the basic exercises are pretty solid. it's less culty than ab machines on that count.
yeah snake oil is in the eye of the culture and you'll have a hard time making absolute value judgments one way or the other.
― lil kink (Matt P), Saturday, 4 February 2012 01:41 (twelve years ago) link
well, snake oil here is ... iPad 3 that works v. an iPad that's actually a cut-up pizza box spray painted silver. can't imagine any evidence coming out showing that the Silva Method really works.
― Spectrum, Saturday, 4 February 2012 01:43 (twelve years ago) link
i've wanted to try crossfit but the group thing scares me off. also $. i like intensity in exercise but the culture around it not so much. same with yoga tbh.
― lil kink (Matt P), Saturday, 4 February 2012 01:44 (twelve years ago) link
I thought crosscut was over and people do p90x now, or is it vice versa?
― mh, Saturday, 4 February 2012 01:46 (twelve years ago) link
theyre both popular, v similar, crossfit is more community grassroots style px90 is all corporate and pro
― lag∞n, Saturday, 4 February 2012 01:47 (twelve years ago) link
ive never done crossfit but the people seem v supportive and not that bad
― lag∞n, Saturday, 4 February 2012 01:49 (twelve years ago) link
the only thing I know about crossfit is that one of my gf's grad school friends does it and she is in very good shape
― iatee, Saturday, 4 February 2012 01:49 (twelve years ago) link
yah it seems like a p good system for getting ripped
― lag∞n, Saturday, 4 February 2012 01:50 (twelve years ago) link
the idea of working out w/other ppl is weirder than quantum jumping to me
― RYVITA® (Lamp), Saturday, 4 February 2012 01:52 (twelve years ago) link
p90x is like the do-it-at-home call-this-900-number version of crossfit. it's a "program", crossfit is a "brand" with gym affiliates and certified trainers.
― lil kink (Matt P), Saturday, 4 February 2012 01:52 (twelve years ago) link
i maybe give px90 the slight edge cause they employ the incredible phrase muscle confusion
― lag∞n, Saturday, 4 February 2012 01:53 (twelve years ago) link
just to be clear itt crossfit gets culty about eatin' paleo and whatnot but is not actually a cult.
― all yoga attacks are fire based (rogermexico.), Saturday, 4 February 2012 01:53 (twelve years ago) link
― lag∞n, Friday, February 3, 2012 5:49 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
yep this is what i've heard too
― lil kink (Matt P), Saturday, 4 February 2012 01:54 (twelve years ago) link
i did eat paleo for a while and it was p amazing
― lag∞n, Saturday, 4 February 2012 01:54 (twelve years ago) link
my old roommate tried to get me into paleo pretty reg. didn't seem that bad, just can't get into a diet with a name.
― Spectrum, Saturday, 4 February 2012 01:55 (twelve years ago) link
i wanted to say something about the language that advertising deploys and how its kinda a root language for all this mindvalley/mgmt theory/optimize yr lyfe stuff where content and tone get separated but now all its all i can do to go on and on abt my theories of how best to exercise
― RYVITA® (Lamp), Saturday, 4 February 2012 01:56 (twelve years ago) link
― RYVITA® (Lamp), Friday, February 3, 2012 5:52 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
yes, this^ basically
― lil kink (Matt P), Saturday, 4 February 2012 01:56 (twelve years ago) link
it makes working out much easier is all
― lag∞n, Saturday, 4 February 2012 01:57 (twelve years ago) link
i paid for a personal trainer for a few months and i felt as ashamed w/ myself for paying someone to make me exercise as i prob would attending a quantum jumping seminar, but damn it if i wasn't in better shape than i'd been in years :\
― ⚓ (gr8080), Saturday, 4 February 2012 02:05 (twelve years ago) link
I don't think there's anything weirder about having a personal trainer than having a shrink, nobody's got perfect inner drive for achieving their fitness goals or whatever and if paying someone to help you helps, why not
― iatee, Saturday, 4 February 2012 02:09 (twelve years ago) link
by nobody I mean nobody on ilx
― iatee, Saturday, 4 February 2012 02:10 (twelve years ago) link
hmmmmm
― RYVITA® (Lamp), Saturday, 4 February 2012 02:11 (twelve years ago) link
a personal trainer is good if you're willing/able to go at their pace -- if they're in tremendously great shape, they might forget that you need to go a little slower for a while. i saw a trainer berating a young woman on the treadmill, being all "go faster! faster!" and the woman was like "this is as fast as i go, dude." jillian michaels style trainers = DUD.
― textile in thighville (get bent), Saturday, 4 February 2012 02:16 (twelve years ago) link
pushin u 2 ur limit
― lag∞n, Saturday, 4 February 2012 02:16 (twelve years ago) link
well I mean it depends on the context, there's a chance she wasn't 'pushing herself' and there's a chance he was just a dick
― iatee, Saturday, 4 February 2012 02:17 (twelve years ago) link
MIND OVER MATTER
ugh
― textile in thighville (get bent), Saturday, 4 February 2012 02:17 (twelve years ago) link
mindvalley over matterhorn
― RYVITA® (Lamp), Saturday, 4 February 2012 02:18 (twelve years ago) link
haha
mind valley ranch
― textile in thighville (get bent), Saturday, 4 February 2012 02:19 (twelve years ago) link
mind over hills and valleys
― RYVITA® (Lamp), Saturday, 4 February 2012 02:20 (twelve years ago) link
pain is weakness quantum jumping out of your body
― ⚓ (gr8080), Saturday, 4 February 2012 02:22 (twelve years ago) link