Calif. teacher resigns after leaving family for student

im not sure what kind of "theory" im supposed to come up with here? i can barely parse this argument, tbh, im just noting that appeals to nature or appeals to the past arent particularly convincing

I think people should rule their thoughts more--it's not like the fact that a thought CAN occur to you means that you should indulge it and take to an extreme just because it doesn't "hurt" anyone. Or that thoughts are free from any moral compass being applied just because there hasn't been an action taken at that time.

Excellent point. Unproductive thoughts are as bad as unproductive actions. Any rational agent must be a merciless with self-criticism and control.

"This tenure business seems to create a lot of tension."
"You must have the same thing in England?"
"Oh no. Probation is more or less a formality. In practise, once you're appointed they can never get rid of you -- unless you seduce one of your students, or something equally scandalous." Philip laughed.
"You can screw as many students as you like here," said Ringbaum unsmilingly. "But if your publications are unsatisfactory..." He drew a finger expressively across his throat.

I mean I aspire to cause physical agony to a lot of people, every day.

I think I remember that thread and my point remains; as long as you're not beating nor killing people why should you beat up on yourslef for having thoughts? Did you plan them? Did you mean to? If not, loathing such thoughts is as pointless as hating your body or resenting gravity.

i don't see anything particularly "aberrant" about sexually mature people of any age desiring sexually mature people of any age. sexual maturity being something that's attained during puberty.

otoh, i understand why contemporary societies have established a protective cordon around youth. with that in mind, so long as all parties are of legal age and consenting (and so long as there isn't implied coercion of the type that seems likely to be present in student-teacher pairings), i have no problem with age disparities in relationships, or with appropriately discreet intergenerational ogling.

we can rehash the whole "ass on that one" thread if need be, but, no, i don't agree with that at all (xp to m. white)

gravity has no moral content.

do thoughts have no relationship to actions? loathing those kinds of thoughts is how you short circuit their impact on actual real life actions

veering wildly off topic I fear but for anecdote's sake: my Mum hated the sight of my Dad through most of my later childhood/teen years, so in a lot of ways I wish I had evidence of some kind of intimacy between them. Not to see it or anything weird, but just, I dunno, it might have given me some hope. And that was kind of why I grew up accepting Dad's covert porn stash. And my saddest memory of that period of time was during the height of Mum's hatred for Dad, I went to sneak a peek in Dad's regular porn hiding place and found a typewritten note from my Mum that said in bold letters FUCK YOU ASSHOLE. By then they were sleeping in separate beds, she was barely talking to him...I felt the full weight of his humiliation. I was never more sad for my Dad then than on that day. (by some weird miracle they stayed together and things are much better now...but that was a weird fucking time.)

Yay oversharing, sorry.

wheres contenderizer

I'm not as comfortable both for the particular nor for society with repression as some ppl seem to be - emotions and desires will find their way out, either sublimated or perverted and often with disastrously worse consequences than the whatever ill the original repression was meant to deal with.

you're begging the question.

kinda on M. White's side here re: the thought police

also omg Veg that story you are bumming me out

no one can police your thoughts. that technology does not yet exist.

iirc shakey was also anti-thought police in the ass thread

I don't remember that thread at all but probably

hi max!

i'm with michael white on the thoughts business, no surprise. have discussed this elsewhere on ilx (did you see that ass on that thread). all thoughts and desires are subject only the judgment of the person experiencing them. that is, if you're okay with your desires, then they're okay. period, no matter what. it's only when we act on our thoughts and desires, when we move them from within to without, that they become subject to other forms of judgment. this is a pragmatic stance more than a moral one.

and yeah, i understand that even "secret" thoughts can influence us, the line between thought and action is fuzzy, even so...

gravity has no moral content.

Huh? I mean in the context of something you can't really do anything about. You will want to sleep. You will need to relieve yourself. You will want to sleep. There's a very good chance that some ppl will feel strong sexual attraction.

There's a difference between sublimating a desire and just being mature enough in your life that you can acknowledge that someone made you angry or that some girl is attractive without lingering on it the entire day.

I'm a little biased in that (while undiagnosed, warnings apply) I have the tendency to fixate on something that bothers me or stimulates me emotionally and turn it over in my head all day. Learning not to fixate on things and to gain the ability to evaluate and dismiss thoughts is useful.

that technology does not yet exist.

I'm sure banaka's workin on it

there's a difference between thought police and acknowledging what thoughts are worth continuing on

i too am anti thought police, i believe in thought self-deportation

you're begging the question.

I'm actually rejecting the question

I'm not as comfortable both for the particular nor for society with repression as some ppl seem to be - emotions and desires will find their way out, either sublimated or perverted and often with disastrously worse consequences than the whatever ill the original repression was meant to deal with.

― Morning becomes apopleptic (Michael White), Thursday, March 1, 2012 4:16 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

there are some recent studies at least in the narrow case of anger and aggression that are counter to this. instead of "letting off steam," and becoming calmer in time, people who exhibited greater anger just got habituated to it and were more pissed and aggressive generally. people who "bottled it up" were generally better able to handle anger and were less angry overall.

i can look for the writeups but that's what i remember. i don't see why this kind of conclusion can't be generalizable.

Like if you want to have a quick sexual fantasy that you're having an encounter with a high school student as a thought experiment, go for it. But if that's all you ever fantasize about, I'm not going to say that there will be repercussions, but it really doesn't seem in your best interests.

I was going to cite what goole just did, but he's beat me to it

oh good contenderizer is here now we just need harbl and horseshoe and we can redo the ass thread

"working out instead of repressing" can actually be "developing this idea instead of letting it drop"

hey max is there enough material for a gawker post here yet

xpost

there is a false dichotomy here between "expressing" and "bottling up" ... what about processing your thoughts?

thoughts can make people really miserable. or they can make people start hilary duff webrings. or they can be shrugged off. there are three kinds of thought.

you are actually begging the question bc your argument is 'if you repress your thoughts, they'll come out in another way.'

I can't remember, does Banaka post under multiple usernames?

i reject that not dwelling on particular thoughts is 'repression,' let alone that they have some kind of weight that must come out if you don't give them enough brain time.

max is onto something there, actually. I'm not supporting some obsessive pov, I'm just saying if you think a young lady, far too young for you, is beautiful, acknowledge it, be happy there are pretty ladies in your world and go about your business. To do otherwise may actually increase your chances of finding yourself shacked up with an immature lady with whom you're not all that compatible, certainly not generationally speaking, out of your teaching job, ostracized by your family and friends and possibly looking at jail time.

"may actually increase your chances"

yeah, i reject that.

oh good contenderizer is here now we just need harbl and horseshoe and we can redo the ass thread

― max, Thursday, March 1, 2012 2:22 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark

hey, you assed, i delivered

'if you repress your thoughts, they'll come out in another way.'

I'm curious about goole's study but in my case, the above is what I have experienced in my own life. Results may vary in other models

To do otherwise may actually increase your chances of finding yourself shacked up with an immature lady with whom you're not all that compatible, certainly not generationally speaking, out of your teaching job, ostracized by your family and friends and possibly looking at jail time.

― Morning becomes apopleptic (Michael White), Thursday, March 1, 2012 2:26 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

"do otherwise" means "buy cocaine", right?

Whatever, I'm a shameless but harmless old lecher and it's one of the things that I love about Paris; everbody looks and expects to be looked at. I think this may have something to do with their sartorial excellence.

In your case you're not dwelling on it, though, you're having the thought and moving on. I think what we were getting at is there is no "repression" per se, unless you're chastising yourself for the thought -- and that still isn't repression, it's dwelling on the subject in a negative manner.

I've had all kinds of stupid shit pop into my head and have discovered no ill effects from ignoring it. Brains are stupid shit producers a good part of the time and it's a bad idea IMHO to start fetishizing that shit as important.

there is a great bunuel quote where he talks about dreams and how he doesn't care what they mean and then says something like * so i fuck my mother, big deal, it's a dream! * or something like that. he really loved being asleep.

this is where mind panties are helpful

So what I mean, is why are you dismissing/repressing these thoughts, Michael White? Stop sublimating them and start concentrating on the beauty of these women.

Dearest contenderizer,

Like I would buy cocaine!

VG, is there some way we could market mind panties? I need to augment my retirement.

eh, even if some old guy builds up a big "schoolgirl" fetish trip in his head, i don't think there's anything wrong or gross about it - so long as it doesn't encourage him into truly inappropriate/illegal/gross interpersonal behavior.

The problem for me, is I can totally understand some dude ogling the girl (though she does look both awfully young and awfully unsexual) but what inner pathology(s) impels him to act on it?

there are some recent studies at least in the narrow case of anger and aggression that are counter to this. instead of "letting off steam," and becoming calmer in time, people who exhibited greater anger just got habituated to it and were more pissed and aggressive generally. people who "bottled it up" were generally better able to handle anger and were less angry overall.

Indeed. Emotional control is crucial to a well-functioning brain.

Indulging in unproductive thoughts is nearly equal to indulging unproductive actions. This is why it is important to be vigilant about not only unproductive thoughts and behavior themselves, but culture that engenders such thought and behavior.

This goes for depictions of reactionary/undesirable behavior in "entertainment" and "pop culture" as well.

Freedom of speech is a figleaf behind which reactionary atavism and oppression reside and consolidate their power. Merciless censorship is crucial in combating this.

and then says something like * so i fuck my mother, big deal, it's a dream! * or something like that. he really loved being asleep.

It's a sign not only of my tenuous mental hygiene but also the influence of ILX that I had to imagine Bunuel dressed as a Viking while he did this.