Is the Guardian worse than it used to be?

I still wear band t-shirts if I like the band. Why not? I don't *define* myself or my personality by my music tastes any more, I haven't done that since I was about 18. But that's not the same thing as wearing a band t-shirt.

I suppose the fashion journalist in discussion cannot fathom the idea that clothes are just something you put on, rather than a definition of or statement about your personality.

This is definitely something that happens as you age - or rather, has happened to me as I aged. There's a subtle difference between Statement Clothes and just things you put on.

Guardian editorial worldview circa 2007:

http://www.astucia.co.uk/images/sce/galibier%20tunnel%20_three.jpg

why else would you buy a band t-shirt if not as a statement or definition of personality?

I didn't know it was a band t-shirt okay?

because you're cold xp

In the past I've usually just bought them as a keepsake of a gig I've enjoyed. The piece tracer quotes is idiotic fluff, obv. I'd be embarrased to admit I'd written that.

Because you like the design? Because you like the music? Because it was given to you (this is where most of mine come from)? Because it was a souvenier?

x-post

you wouldn't actually buy a band t-shirt because you liked the design but not necessarily the band tho...would you?

because you like the music = statement/definition of you/your taste

given to you = not you buying

you wouldn't actually buy a band t-shirt because you liked the design but not necessarily the band tho...would you?

No, plus I've only ever bought them @ gigs.

because you like the music = statement/definition of you/your taste

Probably yeah, but w/smaller bands there's also the knowledge that in buying it, yr helping to supposrt the tour.

i actually bought a comets on fire t-shirt solely because the design was so awesome. (it was at a gig, but they hadn't come on stage yet.) then i heard the music and i liked that too. i suppose if i hadn't liked their music, or thought it was boring, it would have posed a problem.

a friend of mine, who shall remain nameless so that alex in nyc doesn't stalk and kill him, bought a huge iron maiden patch when he was 14 and sewed it across the shoulders of his denim jacket. he had never heard a note of iron maiden, but he wound up becoming the biggest iron maiden fan i know, and even sung in a band later, where his vocal style was almost inseparable from bruce dickinson's.

my take on this: do not read hadley freeman.

this resolution made some time ago, stands as strong today as it ever did.

it's a crass and deliberately invidious piece of writing. such an attitude, if sincerely held, could be turned around on pretty much ANY choice of clothing. so forgeddaboudit

the last band t-shirt i bought - robyn!

alan i can't help myself, i know i'm sick and need help.

is there a thread for best band t-shirts? must see

Taste is something that I have. It does not define me. Clothes are something I wear. The statement I am making is "I don't really care about clothes any more."

If I'm going to make a statement about clothes, I'll wear a bright green paisley jacket to a dronerock festival where everyone else is in leather.

I suppose my Hawkwind t-shirt is a statement, it says "ha ha, I'm wearing a Hawkwind t-shirt, I care nothing for fashion, I am wearing the shirt of a band so deeply uncool you can suck my left one because I love them!" But it's certainly not a statement saying that I want to f*ck any of Hawkwind or that I have a musician boyfriend whose Hawkwind t-shirt I'm borrowing, which is the assumption of that article.

> I don't notice many people over 20 wearing them.

*SOBS*

> you wouldn't actually buy a band t-shirt because you liked the design but not necessarily the band tho...would you?

EAR t-shirt with the putney on the front = great. EAR live = terrible. (EAR on CD = ok, plus pram and stereolab were supporting)

"Do you think anyone else cares?"

the core MOTOR of fashion is YES OF COURSE I THINK OTHER PEOPLE CARE THAT I AM WEARING... WHAT'S "IN". no less dumb than wearing something else that forms part of your identity. so it's just a puerile throw away bit of nonsense. heh. fashion in 'being puerile' shocker.

I gave up caring whether I was too old to wear band t-shirts or whatever a long time ago. Really, if you're getting that worked up about what other people are wearing, the joke's on you, I think. To paraphrase - "Do you think anyone else cares?"

Yesterday I wore an X-Ray Spex t-shirt. I am 31. Oh noes.

If a FAC 51 Hacienda T-shirt counts as a band t-shirt, I am wearing one NOW. I am more than 31.

Unless you buy shirts at arena shows or whatever they cost a tenner or less which is cheaper than t-shirts tend to be (aside from plain ones from Primark or something). I guess it bugs fashiony people cos it's fashion for people who don't give a shit about fashion

you wouldn't actually buy a band t-shirt because you liked the design but not necessarily the band tho...would you?

whoa there, people do this All The Time! witness all the motorhead/def leppard/poison tees on sale at top shop/debenhams/whatever.

What's a putney, Andy?

I bought a Mega City Four t-shirt the other week. I bought it cos I like the band and I like their logo, and out of nostalgia.

witness all the motorhead/def leppard/poison tees on sale at top shop/debenhams/whatever

really? since when do those shops sell (official?) band merchandise?

but how do you know people buying them don't like the band (even if it's 'ironic' or just liking the idea OF liking them, if that makes sense) anyway?

i can imagine some people, not just kids or people buying for kids, buy band t-shirts because of the design and without really knowing about the band but can't be that many really. this is even more of a facile 'want to look cool' statement tho isn't it? that sense of knowing what to buy but not really knowing why...

remember the 'little girls wearing Nico 'Chelsea Girl' t-shirt thing (altho i approved of this ha)

Uhm yeah, there were tons of high street chains selling classic rock tees (I presume they just bought a load wholesale).

i figure these are aimed at and bought mainly by teenagers

really? since when do those shops sell (official?) band merchandise?

since AGES, honestly. i doubt your "average" 14-year-old Miss Selfridge customer would have a clue/give a shit who Def Leppard/insert 80s hair metal band here are. it's just a noisy "cool" design that'll make her look a bit like Peaches Geldof or whoever.

I'm sure I remember even Primark licensing some lame/classic 80s band tee designs recently.

and As Matt DC has admitted, sometimes people buy band tees without even realising that's what they are!

nb this whole discussion is clearly on the wrong thread.

Someone was selling MC5 shirts a good few years ago and it was the only place that you could get MC5 shirts so I know loads of people that bought them as they had been desperate for years to get them.
I got mine online but it was probably the same shirt.

a putney

http://www.vintagesynth.com/misc/vcs3.jpg

so called because they were made in putney (not far from you actually, there's a website that gives the actual address of the place they used to make them, cottage industry style, deodor road, sw15).

http://www.ems-synthi.demon.co.uk/snaps/everynun.jpg

Hang on a second, I went to primary school at 49 Deodar Road!!

Oh, I didn't, it was 95-97 Deodar Road (since moved). My best friend at the time lived at 50 Deodar Road, though.

I've got a Synthi t-shirt but my god, I want a t-shirt with that nun on it.

I am currently wearing a T-ahirt of a band that I saw live but didn't like much. It's a pretty design and the band aren't well known enough for many people to even know it's a band T-shirt.

I have had it on since yesterday so should probably take it off soon.

what's the band?

Skrewdriver

Ha. A Swedish indiepop band called Aerospace.

good name/word for t-shirt

i am wearing my robyn t-shirt today!

message for all youse: "i am a 'top 5' kind of person"

back to the guardian...

has anyone else had problems viewing the site this week? nothing (that i know of) has changed on my computer and suddenly instead of a nice clean page, i have just text and links, all in the same size New York font. (and the Guardian is the only place this is true, so I feel like they must have changed something).

the GUARDIAN is good, second only to the BBC

xpost

yes. chinese hackers innit.

Today's free thing: a cut out and assemble yourself model of the Empire State Building.

So in answer to the question, no, apart from the lower case 'g' on the new masthead.

2pm (now playing: Mark Kozelek moaning about some shit):

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2411/1654704013_f0762c363d.jpg

3.30pm (now playing: Happy End, much better):

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2354/1655585806_e112b84d31.jpg

This is really tedious but I have to finish. It's about to get very fiddly. I need a cup of tea. World's shittiest liveblog.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2354/1655585806_9ee35fe917.jpg

7pm:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2229/1657319085_039a52afe6.jpg

It's like my time has no value to me.

This strikes me as a noble way to pass it, though.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2190/1714521192_2c763aaa31.jpg

I win again!

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/ruth_fowler/2008/03/the_antichrist_for_feminists.html

A+++++++++ trolling well done guardian u win

I stood on the edge of that enormous comments thread with a sense of trepidation I haven't felt since standing on the edge of the top diving board at the swimming pool aged nine. And then decided to walk back down the virtual ladder, straight back into the changing room, and back home.

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.ytimg.com%2Fvi%2Ftr5EvZDjUFY%2Fhqdefault.jpg&f=1&ipt=46488c5624bfbf7f1b9378767c5b99364b48478eda5ad967f92ce6904588d302

Would love to know what percentage of the 41% who say they're proud to be British are English. What they really mean is they are also proud to consider others British.

She was clearly referring to this:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/18911955

Good stuff.

Richard Curtis is so fucking dire and a diabolically cliched cunt. Everything he has ever written should be rammed so hard up his fundament that 10 years after he is dead he is still shitting out scripts from his "mildly amusing" peak in the 80's.

oh, I've just noticed that the movie mentioned in the piece is not actually a Richard Curtis screenplay, rather it was mentioned he's just said something complimentary about the movie. Which is still enough reason for me to avoid the movie at least until some who isn't RC recommends it.

It is a quite a good film tbf.

ah right, just from brief glance at plot synopsis I thought it scanned a bit R Curtisesque. I'll keep an open mind on it going forwards.

I saw this last night. Eh. It's fine. Like Radio 2 made flesh. Not really a spoiler to say that the Carey Mulligan character appearing for half-hour and literally making off with a suitcase containing 100 grand in cash is a *bit* on the nose.

Apparently you need to be in the pop mainstream before you can be recognised as a genius

https://www.theguardian.com/news/ng-interactive/2025/jun/14/brian-wilson-was-a-musical-genius-are-there-any-left

I have to admit that I haven't read the article, which might be a masterpiece, but the headline is almost quintessentially The Guardian:
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/ng-interactive/2025/jun/13/my-unexpected-pride-icon-free-willy-helped-me-see-the-radical-power-of-coming-out

My Unexpected Pride Icon: Free Willy Helped me See the Radical Power of Coming Out

It has powerful short-deadline energy, which might explain why it's only 700 words long. At the back of my mind I can't help but wonder if the whole thing is a parody. e.g. if the writer decided it would be hilarious to create an article about a gay man coming out centered around the film Free Willy, with a little anecdote about travelling to Norway to see sperm whales, but no-one at The Guardian noticed that it was a joke because famously lefties don't have a sense of humour. They're so dour, which is why they keep losing elections. Because they pick sensible, boring candidates with policies and platforms instead of charismatic agents of chaos such as Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage.

It also feels as if the writer picked two completely unconnected things and smushed them together in the most perfunctory way. Which is great from the perspective of filling out space, not so good if you want something interesting to read.

Lefties at the Guardian, where?

Truly astonishing, the depths this rag will go to.

After the weaselly reporting of the past couple of years, the Guardian doing a lifestyle section piece on Palestinian brunch is just so very perfectly Guardian pic.twitter.com/MnhqCtEDXu

— Stefan Bielik (@prstskrzkrk) July 2, 2025

fuck off Guardian / neckbeard cunt Henry Hill

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/jul/08/norman-tebbit-working-class-tory-fighter

"Henry Hill is deputy editor of ConservativeHome"

"all my life I've always wanted to be a wanker"

gtfo with this anti air-conditioning shit

let me know when you abjure winter heating and/or blame corporations for climate change instead of poor people