David Foster Wallace vs. Thomas Pynchon

i liked david foster wallace when he was writing sort stories and magazine articles...i bailed on the corrections.

same w/me. but long books per se don't bother me, i read gravity's rainbow fitfully over the course of year, glad i did. but i sorta gave up on pynchon after vineland, still have that copy of mason/dixon sitting uncracked on the shelf. haven't kept up w/pynchon. his latest sounds dopey. franzen seems like a well-intentioned windbag, his new yorker essay on dfw was heartfelt but reading it was like chasing a shaggy dog.

joyce, austen over the lot.

― balls, Thursday, 6 September 2012 18:41 (57 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

haha c'mon

in that case i am having a write-in vote for william shakespeare, geoffrey chaucer, and virgil

ha! xp!

(adjusts pince nez)

Shakespeare, my dears, Shakespeare!

i might have shared this non-anecdote before but this anthropologist girl i know who doesn't read that much was drunk the other day and really effusive about how great this author she'd started reading was, who was called david foster wallace, and he's so good, he's amazing, have you heard of him

i post this not to make fun of her but because it brought home to me that there are people who found their lives on totally different assumptions to mine

hey John Barth - I read Giles Goat Boy so long ago I can't remember much about it

this summer I read Conversation In The Cathedral by Mario Vargas Llosa, that was 600+ page novel that managed to be epic: complex in terms of plot and characters yet concise in the prose dept. even in translation, w/Llosa you really hear the rhythm and cadence of Spanish speakers. I think Franzen could learn a lot from him.

xpost what assumptions are those? seems like she's just not a part of the same discourses as yourself (irl or internet)

same w/me. but long books per se don't bother me, i read gravity's rainbow fitfully over the course of year, glad i did. but i sorta gave up on pynchon after vineland, still have that copy of mason/dixon sitting uncracked on the shelf. haven't kept up w/pynchon. his latest sounds dopey. franzen seems like a well-intentioned windbag, his new yorker essay on dfw was heartfelt but reading it was like chasing a shaggy dog.

― (REAL NAME) (m coleman)

lol, every word of this is true for me, too. glad i read gravity's rainbow (and V.), less glad i read vineland, quickly gave up on mason/dixon, haven't looked back.

V. is alltime

xpost what assumptions are those? seems like she's just not a part of the same discourses as yourself (irl or internet)

― karl...arlk...rlka...lkar..., Thursday, 6 September 2012 19:50 (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

that was the joke i was going for, yeah

gravity's rainbow > vineland > against the day > mason & dixon > inherent vice> lot 49 > v.

i have that reversed entirely except gravity's 3rd best for me

let's poll it! okay let's not poll it

i would probably put slow learner on the left hand end somewhere, too

yeah, of the few i've read:

lot 49 > v. > gravity's rainbow > vineland > etc

george saunders

lot 49 is pynchons best imo

pynchon maybe over dfw? idk i love infinite jest so much that its hard to say

DFW is more personally affecting. Pynchon was more stylistically and compositionally groundbreaking. FRanzen was a big boring miniseries of a novel.

do people care about Barth anymore? I feel like they did maybe in the 70's, and then never again. Certainly when I was in my early 20's and into metafiction and pretentious I thought he was great but no-one really credited him at the time. Then DFW came around, and Coover got some traction, but Barth still seemed overlooked or relegated to the garage sales of university towns. Oddly just two hours ago, I bought a pristine first edition of Chimera at a bookstore for $10.

does it have tits on the cover

what about William Vollmann? Does anyone really care about him? I pretended to and tried to for a few years there and then I just gave up.

rising up, rising down is pretty good

I've always gotten Barth, Barthelme, and Barthes confused and can't say any of them left an impression on me

Vollmann did some good stuff, primarily his short story collections (Rainbow, Atlas) but his preoccupations with prostitutes and just general degradation got kinda tiresome for me after awhile

i have been thinking abt some of the really lost dudes recently - anybody remember when mark leyner was going to bust literature wide open?

i liked bright and risen angels a lot

am in fairly close agreement w/ thomp's ranking eg

gravity's rainbow > vineland > mason & dixon > slow learner > against the day > inherent vice > the crying of lot 49 > v

gravity's rainbow seems to me far away and his best work - still the best invocation of london i've ever read - whereas v at times seems like self-parody

Barth: wrote novels
Barthelme: (donald) wrote mainly short stories
Barthelme: (f) his brother, wrote something else, dunno, never read them
Barthes: wrote criticism and not fiction

i read and enjoyed a Leyner book when i was like 12 and tend to think of it as the kind of thing that only self-impressed 12 year olds should really enjoy

guy writers

yeah I remember when the first leyner book came out. I was an inifiniately hot and intense dot. blah blah. now he writes like, humor books or something.

fred barthelme wrote (writes?) novels

barthes killed a bunch of authors. all of them actually.

all of vollmann's books have 'rising' or 'risen' or 'angel' in the title. I saw him read once, he brought a gun. also he was kind of a freak, not in a good way, in a creepy "i don't want to live on the same street as this guy' way.

DFW was really nice the two times I saw him read. Funny, engaging.

i think one is called europe something tbf to be even fairer i can imagine hes a p terrible person

what is this bullshit
Voted for somebody else

xpost
europe central

paul auster seemed a p big deal at one point, at least in the uk, but his stock seems to have fallen in recent years, at least in the uk

the prolegomena to vollmann's 'calculus of violence' thing is all about how beautiful this one knife he owns is, there are pictures

leyner had his first non-'humour' book in ages this year, all part of the whole back-to-the-late-80s-early-90s thing that's going on you know

auster is shite!!

Auster decided to devote his time to making shitty movies instead afaict. He had a good run tho.

sorry i mean but he is. there's a marketing component i guess, he seems made to exist in faber paperbacks. there was a guy who worked on him at my undergrad who had a picture of himself and paul auster in his office, auster looked real uncomfortable. i find it so weird that lydia davis married that, likewise sivi hustvedt (sp, probably)

BEE has been mercilessly tweet-slamming DFW all day

yes but are any of them any good

didn't leyner just come out with a new novel?

...

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_llak0ehEAF1qbl75h.jpg

jordan, i am so sad you have me killfiled

I like Vollmann more than DFW, as far as maximalists with footnotes go.

i was looking for the interview where wallace goes in on ellis, salon have already dug it up -- http://www.salon.com/2012/09/06/bret_easton_ellis_hates_david_foster_wallace/

Also lump Vollmann and DFW together as authors of doorstop-sized books that, in the end, are collages of short chapters.

just had this weird sensation like someone is calling my name from a far-away room

xp

writer fights are so hilarious and sad, especially between guy writers